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Sonny Gill
Apple holding iPhone OS 4 event, April 8th! -
"Wow, demanding much?" - Sonny Gill
Sonny Gill
Q4: November 13, 2009 - A question for the community here. Where do YOU want to see this group evolve to? What opportunities do you feel CmtyChat has to further expand and reach out to more CMs and those wanting to just learn more about community management?
Open-forum: so don't be afraid to share your thoughts :) Really want to gauge ppl's feelings and ideas on CmtyChat after several months since starting this chat. - Sonny Gill
That's an awesome question. Since social business is starting to catch on, I think it'd be great to talk more about the growth of the CM role internally. Also, maybe start discussing Dir. of Community roles? I dunno, I'm spouting off here... - Teresa Basich
Good suggestions, Teresa! Spout away :) I've been getting a lot more into the social business side of social media and CMs definitely play a huge role in that shift. - Sonny Gill
Definitely Sue. Does everyone enjoy the FriendFeed format still in comparison to all other chats being on Twitter? Always something I think about so worth asking everyone here. - Sonny Gill
I think CMs are going to take on a lot of work on the internal training and education side as social business takes hold, for sure. I'd love to get some ppl here working in director positions at companies going toward social business. And yes, Sue has a great point -- maybe a different time to integrate some new faces? - Teresa Basich
That's a good question, Sue. I've thought about that a lot as well - especially as Bryan and I would much of the time have conflicting schedules on Friday afternoons (travel/work). What times would you suggest? Mid-week evenings? Obv not coinciding with other chats. - Sonny Gill
Yeah, I really like the FF format. Threaded discussions rock. - Teresa Basich
I prefer FF - Joe Kikta from iPhone
A lot more to think about now as we move forward with CmtyChat. Glad you guys still dig FF but timing may be something to think about adjusting. - Sonny Gill
I think we need to tell more people about it (each one of us tell 2 CM friends) and possibly reschedule it so it doesn't conflict with my lunch! LOL - Arié Moyal
I think it can be a place to learn and a place to share I think we should also maybe have a job board and possibly help develop some best practices & case studies we can share - Arié Moyal
I hear ya Arie & Sue. Sorry for taking your lunchtime, Arie ;) But evening chats come aplenty and people seem open to it, so definitely worth thinking into more and seeing which time slot we could fit it into. - Sonny Gill
Suck it up Arie :) - Joe Kikta from iPhone
Thanks a lot everyone! The hour flew by - but it's been great, as usual :) - Sonny Gill
What's great about FF is that it's threaded and you can go back and read the stuff even after the chat is done (which means we have to be on our best behaviour) - Arié Moyal
I like that Sue! - Arié Moyal
Interesting idea, Sue! So starting it up here in the FF room on Monday w/ a question and then full on discussion still on Friday? - Sonny Gill
I missed the chat but wanted to add my +1 for FF over Twitter. I don't use FF normally but for this chat it's perfect. I miss the chats a lot and love being able to come back and read them so easily in this nice neat format. - Michelle
Sonny Gill
Q3 : November 13, 2009 - Being that it's Friday the 13th, let's hear some horror stories. What are some of the biggest challenges you've faced as a CM but also, how did you overcome those obstacles? (suggestion by Tanya McGinnity)
What about one I'm facing? my JobAngels clean-up and re-engagement project? - Teresa Basich
Sue - that does not sound fun! Sorry to hear that - has it happened before? If so, any extreme reactions? How did you help calm the situation? - Sonny Gill
T - definitely. What obstacles do you have? JobAngels has a pretty large community but with that are huge opportunities to become better. - Sonny Gill
Biggest challenge by far is re-engaging users. The community's core is really on LinkedIn and right now there's so little management that it's heavily spammed. I have to clean up as much as I can and set some boundaries while getting a very needy community to engage in a positive way. Also, figuring out how to draw people into the conversation who aren't unemployed or who can and want to help job seekers. - Teresa Basich
@Sue, can you say a little more about what happened? Was it a mix-up on the inside of your company? Or a misunderstanding of some sort? Often that info is proprietary, so I understand if you can't say more about it. - Teresa Basich
T - that's definitely a challenge but I've seen job seekers and those wanting to help the unemployed, typically stir up some great conversations about the job market and specific situations. I think it'll be a welcomed change for the cmty to see that they want to be heard and can engage now, outside of just getting job leads. - Sonny Gill
Sue - sorry is definitely one of the most underused words, especially in a business setting. Ppl sometimes equate sorry to failing. But I see it as a second coming, where you can grow from and get better. Whether with communities or otherwise, it's no different. - Sonny Gill
@Sonny -- Definitely. I think the key will be inspiring people to start talking, not just blasting. Getting rid of the spam and filtering, etc. Right now most members see JobAngels as a place to find leads, not necessarily talk about their job search and use the forum as support. Not sure this work is as much challenging as much as just downright hard work. - Teresa Basich
A bit of both :) - Sonny Gill
@Sue, that's definitely a tough situation. Communication is key, especially to managers who are doing customer/community facing like you. - Teresa Basich
Q4 is up, and it's direct at YOU :) - Sonny Gill
@Sue, I think that's one of the biggest challenges for any community, and especially prevalent on LinkedIn. I'm still utterly impressed by Beth Harte's mgmt of the MarketingProfs community on LinkedIn and I think I'm going to need to pick her brain. :) - Teresa Basich
Sorry my browser crashed - does that count as a community crash? LOL - Arié Moyal
Yes Arie, we're offended! ;) - Sonny Gill
Teresa I love JobAngels I DM you guys stuff all the time - Arié Moyal
I know I've shared it a few times but Rachel Happe's Power and peril of Online COmmunities presentation is awesome! - Arié Moyal
@Sonny Sorry. (There I can admit that I've failed) Will you forgive me? ;) - Arié Moyal
Arie - of course! ;) - Sonny Gill
Have a link to Rachel's presentation? - Sonny Gill
SOnny: - Arié Moyal
Sonny Gill
PREVIEW/INTRO: November 13, 2009 - Hi and welcome everybody to the Friday the 13th edition of CmtyChat :) Feel free to introduce yourselves and post any thoughts/questions you would like addressed!
Hey everyone. Tanya here. I'd love to hear some horror stories on this Friday the 13th. How have you dealt with some of the challenges of Community Management? - Tanya McGinnity
Hey Tanya - nice to see ya again! I'll be sure to incorporate your question within today's chat :) - Sonny Gill
Arié here, communtiy manager for babyTEL's Social VoIP division in Montreal Is anyone noticing new trends in CM we should know about? - Arié Moyal
Hey Arié! Glad you could make it. Interesting question - perhaps we can build on that here in this discussion post and hear from other folks? - Sonny Gill
Let's kick things off! - Sonny Gill
Trying this on the iPhone today. Probably skulking today - Joe Kikta from iPhone
Hey Joe! Curious to see how that pans out Which app are you using? - Arié Moyal
Just accessing thru browser - Joe Kikta from iPhone
Hey Joe - hope the browser version on the iPhone is working ok for you! - Sonny Gill
Sonny Gill
Q2: November 13, 2009 - With some businesses slowly shifting their internal culture and how they run their biz towards the way of this social web (re: P2P social business:, how will CMs have to adjust to these shifts? Where will their skills/roles evolve to with this change in how businesses function?
And here I thought we *were* the change! - Arié Moyal
Ooo, me, me! Kidding ;) I think one of the biggest changes will be internal community management. I feel like there will be a bigger push to expand the community inside the walls of business. Connecting more people, creating more bridges. - Teresa Basich
Ha - we are but there's an even bigger change happening that we and social media heads alike, will play a huge role in. - Sonny Gill
@T - most definitely. Connecting not just more people, but the entire org. in what the business is trying to accomplish. For everyone to understand goals, have resources at hand, open doors and open-communication on what's happening within the biz. - Sonny Gill
The Canadian government has an internal social network aimed at making things run more efficiently Of course its closed :) - Arié Moyal
I guess for me the answer is does out job really change or does our public change - Arié Moyal
(Ok that was a question not an answer...) - Arié Moyal
Arie - good question and I agree w/Sue that we're already doing this - so In essence, our role may not change all that much. But in most cases, we'll be dealing with our internal community more than we ever have in the past. - Sonny Gill
@Sue Neener neener neener! ;) - Arié Moyal
Q3 is up! - Sonny Gill
@Sonny The internal shift needs to happen - Outside people just want more ways to connect with their brands - Arié Moyal
Right Sue. We need to be vocal and be sure we're helping lead the charge. To us, it's a no-brainer, but the organization will be looking for that leadership still to help in this shift. - Sonny Gill
Sonny Gill
Q1: November 13, 2009 - Living in a social economy where a company's every move is seen/heard, there are org's that have communities who don't necessarily believe in them. How can these co's/CMs bridge this trust gap? What steps do they need to take and where do they start?
Way to hit hard nice and quick, Sonny! Can you give an example of what you're talking about? I mean, I get what you're saying, I just can't think of one! Trust is based in strong relationships that deliver on promises, that are consistently beneficial to both parties involved in the relationship. I think companies and CMs have to start there -- addressing concerns and figuring out what exactly makes community members distrust them or not fully believe in them. - Teresa Basich
Oops - maybe a little too hard :) You're right, addressing concerns and seeing where these problems are stemming from is very important. I think it begins with the company itself understanding where their business is and if leaders across the board, internally, are conveying that message properly. Everybody really needs to be on the same page. - Sonny Gill
Obviously we have to make every community member read Trust Agents and give us their feedback LOL Kidding But I think it's important to find your enthusists and really talk to them - Arié Moyal
Have to know yourself before knowing how you can help others -- absolutely true. - Teresa Basich
I think that holds true outside of CM and even outside of business hehe - Arié Moyal
@Arie - good idea ;) That's a great idea as well - even going as far as bringing those loyalists in and gaining valuable feedback from them as well. Where THEY see our shortcomings and where they see us shining. - Sonny Gill
@Arie, thanks for the book recommendation. I am looking forward to reading Trust Agents. - Lou Ordorica
And you're right - it holds true in all aspects of business and life. Internal cultures and leadership has been a growing topic as of late and something many companies are slowly addressing. - Sonny Gill
Do you guys have any examples of companies who you personally have lost trust in but also see an opportunity to change that? - Sonny Gill
@Sonny Dell is a good example. They went from burying their head in the sand (remember Dell Hell?) to fully embracing social media, and even innovating (Dell Ideastorm, Dell Pulse). - Lou Ordorica
@Lou - good, popular example. You're right - they opened up, started listening more, taking action. They tapped into several communities through different strategies across the social web. - Sonny Gill
I'm with Sue -- Not just Twitter, either. Many companies broadcast and ignore problem. Maybe not even blatant ignoring, just misunderstanding of platforms and philosophy behind online engagement. - Teresa Basich
Starbucks - they're gone gone gone for a lot of people - They've gone ubercorporate and lost their way - Arié Moyal
@Sue - that's a problem we've seen from the get go, but shows even more now that businesses really don't know who they're targeting, what goals they have, heck even which people to employ as these CMs/SM 'strategists'. - Sonny Gill
@Sue I got told I need to be pushing stuff out and that I "listen" I think listening is the MOST valuable part of an org's "social media strategy" - Arié Moyal
@Arie - I've heard that as well. Honestly haven't kept up on what they've been doing, but their culture has become a lot more rigid from the bits I've read. - Sonny Gill
So, is this an issue of building trust internally before being able to bridge any sort of trust gap w/your external community? - Sonny Gill
@Sonny two words: Instant coffee - Arié Moyal
@Sonny, I think so. Building trust AND being on the same page re: co. philosophy, core of business efforts, and forward moves. - Teresa Basich
@Lou Not only has Dell done well from a CM perspective, they've been able to show ROI from it - Arié Moyal
As companies evolve in their use of social media, I think we will see more focused and purpose-specific outreach. For example, setting up a private community for top customers, giving them access to the firm's expert resources, and using the community instead of focus groups to glean insight and market intelligence. - Lou Ordorica
Private communities for top consumers have been around for a long time - Communispace does that almost exclusively I think - Arié Moyal
@Arie, you took the words out of my mouth re: Communispace and closed communities. - Teresa Basich
@Teresa I'm sorry, do you want them back? I didn't meant to take without asking How very un CM of me ;) - Arié Moyal
@Lou - good insight there and I totally agree. Those focused communities have been and will become even more important as businesses continue to evolve. It's more about a value-proposition (gah - buzzword) for their community vs. constantly pushing and pushing stuff out there. - Sonny Gill
@Arie, LOL, no, they're just fine with you. Probably happier and better used, actually. :) - Teresa Basich
Q2 is up! - Sonny Gill
I think community is about that exactly - community - it's not about the hard sell - Arié Moyal
The hard sell for CMs is to get the understanding/buy-in of the entire organization :) - Sonny Gill
@Sonny The irony there is most are hired to be CMs which would imply buy-in to the untrained eye LOL - Arié Moyal
@Arie - very true and very ironic. We're sometimes in an unfortunate position where many companies don't understand what they exactly need, but CMs looking to get a food in the door and cont. their career path, jump in these roles with the proper mindset, but doesn't mean the co. has the same. - Sonny Gill
Sonny Gill
Q4/WRAP-UP: November 6, 2009 - Share your best community resources (not necessarily jobs/job boards - re: competition ;) that can be valuable to people who are on the hunt. (Only if you feel comfortable doing so)
I'll start with - great podcasts and posts that are helpful to any career field you're looking to get into. - Sonny Gill
LOL my best resource is Sue :-) - lizGreaux
Good point - she is pretty damn awesome! - Sonny Gill
that she is :-D - lizGreaux
Yay Sue! - Tanya McGinnity
I'm kind of with Liz in that a lot of my resources are people I've connected with. - Teresa Basich
I figured it'd be a slightly tough question also for ppl wanting to share their resources, outside of Sue ;) - Sonny Gill
Daniel interviews people about how they got their current job on Video podcasts - Joe Kikta
I read and re-read Sally Hogsheads 'Radical Careering' whenever I'm feeling down. - Tanya McGinnity
BUT! Okay, I haven't gotten started yet on the JobAngels volunteer community management gig, but when I do...I think it's going to be an awesome resource for job seekers. - Teresa Basich
Joe - that's awesome. Thanks for that. - Sonny Gill
Teresa - that's going to be awesome, for us, as well as for you! JobAngels rocks. - Sonny Gill
I agree with Sue, too, that this chat is an invaluable resource for sharing and connecting. - Teresa Basich
Totally agree... These chats invigorate me! - Tanya McGinnity
I'm a member of the Community Roundtable--a peer-to-peer network of Community practitioners. It does cost to join but we have great discussions. It's run by Rachel Happe and Jim Storer. - Rachel Makool
Thanks so much you guys - Bryan and I wanted to start this for the community and bring some sort of value to you all. Glad it's been a resource in your own respective careers! - Sonny Gill
@Rachel, I love Community Roundtable. I'm not a member but I've heard such great things and really like Jim and Rachel. Glad to hear it's such a good resource for you! - Teresa Basich
One thing I'll also mention is a core group of colleagues/friends that are somewhat like mentors that you can always reach out to. - Sonny Gill
I've a close group that's been so helpful in my search, in supporting me, in shooting me leads, connecting me w/folks. Just really great to have them in my corner. - Sonny Gill
Absolutely, Sonny. Those people lift you up and keep you afloat. They're priceless. - Teresa Basich
On that note guys and gals - it was a really great chat today! I must jet a couple minutes early to jump on a call, but really appreciate everyone's input today. Many of us are in the same boat and am glad to see that, in some form or another, we're all willing to help each other out during tough times. Cheers! - Sonny Gill
Thanks, Sonny! Great chat. And thank you to everyone who participated, too -- it was great bouncing thoughts and ideas around in here. :) - Teresa Basich
Yes, thanks to everybody here for a great chat! @Sonny Thanks for hosting today! - Joe Kikta
Thanks @Sonny! - Rachel Makool
Great chat today as always, thanks again! - lizGreaux
Sonny Gill
Q3: November 6, 2009 - Wise words always tell us to network before we need our community. What if you're late to the game, how can you connect with likeminded individuals while gaining value in your search - without the ME mentality?
Wooo! This is what happened to me, late to the networking game. Put out feelers for conversations and ideas you're interested in pursuing and join in. Especially in the online space, people are generally really inviting if you talk kindly with them, ask questions and share your experiences. - Teresa Basich
T - I didn't think you were late to the game at all. One day I just saw your name pop up and took notice as you were communicating with likeminded folks. Maybe that's why your seemingly 'late' transition didn't seem like one at all to me. - Sonny Gill
Attend conferences, join online and offline groups, link with former colleagues. - Rachel Makool
I think it's the 'give and ye shall receive' philosophy that has to happen. Sharing (as Teresa just mentioned), posting about jobs (like Sue and Connie do) and being as interested in others as you are in your own search all sound like great moves. - Tanya McGinnity
@Rachel - joining groups is definitely important. People are joining communities on ning and the like for common causes. You won't be looked at awkwardly if you're a new face to the crowd. - Sonny Gill
@Sonny, I think that's the key. You have to understand that community building and connecting with people takes time. I just wanted to learn -- coming at your networking from a position of learning also helps remove the ME factor, I think. And thanks, that's a definite compliment! - Teresa Basich
@Tanya - definitely. The problems that some ppl are having is the issue w/immediacy. We live in a NOW world, where things happen and move fast. But of course, that's dependent on the person to realize if that now mentality is gonna work for them or is being helpful going to. They'll find out quick. - Sonny Gill
I think it's never too late to get in the game. You need to communicate your needs, but also still be willing and ready to help others. Remember that you want to connect with people not just for the short term search but for the long haul as well. - Joe Kikta
Agree Sonny joining groups with like minded folks, and again networking as well as letting people know what you are looking for and who/what you are - lizGreaux
@Joe - right on. Going in expecting immediate results isn't the answer either, as I've seen that happen many times. It's sad really because I wish ppl would their communities and network WAY before needed. But you're right, it's never too late. - Sonny Gill
We talk a lot about online. What can you do OFFLINE with communities that can help in ones search? - Sonny Gill
I started a local group of Girl Geeks that get together monthly for a dinner and featured speaker. This has been a great way for me to get to know members of many various local communities (designers, gamers, coders, artists, moms, fashion designers and so on). The Girl Geeks have certainly been putting their feelers out for me on places where I could go or speak to their organizations about the need for a community manager. - Tanya McGinnity
Organize more meetups. Get to know people in person. I think you're more likely to go to the mat for someone you've met in person. - Joe Kikta
@Tanya, that is such a great idea. Creating groups around a cause or interest and bringing in speakers and holding events that draw a crowd is a great way to meet people. - Teresa Basich
@Tanya -That's a great example of how you launched a local offline community. Meeting face to face is so important (re: going to conferences, meetups) - Sonny Gill
@joe - Meetups are great! - Tanya McGinnity
Conferences are hard to get to, but if you can get to them they're a great opportunity to meet likeminded people. - Teresa Basich
Though harder - what do you do when you're looking to relocate? We can connect all day online w/ppl around the world, but a lot harder to make time/money to go face to face at your desired locale. - Sonny Gill
@Sonny That's a good question. I'd consider relocating, but feel I'm at a disadvantage. - Joe Kikta
Seeing as I'm trying to relocate...I depend so heavily on online interaction for it. I have set up a couple different trips around informational interviews or potential opportunities to show my commitment to leaving California. - Teresa Basich
Y'all should move to Canada and we'll set up an empire of Community Managers. Mwwhaaah Haa Haa <evil laugh> - Tanya McGinnity
@Joe - understandably, everyone isn't able to relocate. But yea, it is harder for us who want to move - but like Teresa said, we have to show that commitment as well. That desire. - Sonny Gill
LOL - I like Tanya's thinking :) - Sonny Gill
Ha! Tanya's got the right idea. - Teresa Basich
Then again.. I'm the CM who's out of work - so let's scratch that idea! - Tanya McGinnity
Good point, Sue. Since relocating is part of my agenda, I hope to supplement my work with some freelance writing opportunities. But, the time commitment will be tough. Fingers crossed. - Teresa Basich
@Sue - those of us wanting to relocate, though flexible, have a lot more to think about when making such a huge move. - Sonny Gill
There's a definite difference between wanting to relocate and being willing to relocate. - Teresa Basich
I think that we also have to so much more to self promote ie: webinars I sat in on the Jono Bacon webinar yesterday and was very impressed, but think that each of us who have communities could certainly share our expertise in a similar way. This exposure could lead to pumping up the old resume (ie: I spoke at CMTY chat webinar XYZ) - Tanya McGinnity
Teresa - right on! - Sonny Gill
It's sometimes the challenge in the industry that only the big gurus get to give their perspective and hence get all the big speaking gigs / contracts. - Tanya McGinnity
@Tanya - right. What are you doing to help not only move your career forward, but move this industry into a positive direction. - Sonny Gill
@Tanya, you're so right. Exposure through shared expertise. It shows your knowledge and willingness to share and gets your name out there. - Teresa Basich
'Q'4 is up! - Sonny Gill
Sonny Gill
Q2: November 6, 2009 - Competition. There's TONS of it out there now. How transparent and open should you be with your communities about your search, companies you're contacting, etc. - without feeling like you've tipped others in the process.
I know the 'social' world preaches us differently, but being honest - we still have to watch out for ourselves and what we do, who we confide in and trust, etc. - Sonny Gill
This is a really good question, because it goes to the idea of whether we're colleagues or competitors. - Daniel Johnson, Jr.
Ah, tricky question. I think you have to be really careful what information you disclose about companies you're in contact with, etc., but telling people about your search...that's not a bad thing. - Teresa Basich
I have several people who used to work for me looking for jobs. Sometimes they apply for the same job. We have very open conversations about it. I think it's good to know who you're potentially competing with. - Rachel Makool
@Rachel - it may be good to know, but my thought is if I don't say anything, there's a chance they won't know and there will be less competition. - Sonny Gill
I had someone in my network as for LinkedIn introduction to a hiring manager in regards to a job we both were applying for. It was awkward. - Daniel Johnson, Jr.
@Daniel - how did you respond? Did you write it? - Sonny Gill
Agree with Teresa. Let people know what you're looking for, not who you are looking at. - Chuck Hemann
Yeah, the specific companies you are targeting can be a sticky situation. I met someone once at a networking event that had interviewed for the same exact position I had just interviewed for and it was a little awkward. Still friendly, but awkward. - Joe Kikta
@Sonny, I feel the same way you do. I'd rather not open up that discussion with others. It's too in-depth. - Teresa Basich
I've personally had 2 close friends in the SM world get positions for jobs I was after as well. Tough going and how the market is, but they were more high profile and pretty much everyone knew about the openings. The feeling is all the same though. - Sonny Gill
Sorry. Meant to type ASK. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea and why. It turned out neither of us got the job. I was hoping one of us would get it, though. - Daniel Johnson, Jr.
@sonny That's true in some cases but currently there aren't many roles so there's a good chance that one of your friends or acquaintances knows about the job and will apply. Just this week, a job popped up in the Bay Area and three of my former team members are interested. - Rachel Makool
Chuck, you said it perfectly. No need to disclose that information to make headway in your search and networking. - Teresa Basich
@Rachel - that's the monster that is today's job market! It's scary and why we have to sometimes be more strategic in how we communicate with our communities and what's divulged. - Sonny Gill
I'm in a fairly small city in so most people just assume that I've applied for anything with the words community, social or marketing in it!! Not much choice in my level of transparency! - Tanya McGinnity
Q3 is up! - Sonny Gill
@Sue - Indeed. It's all relative to where you're at personally in life. Geographically, how flexible you are, who you're taking care and where you can go. - Sonny Gill
Sonny Gill
Q1: November 6, 2009 - We've seen the job search evolve greatly given new technologies and networks that we have access to today. How can communities help out CMs (and the like) get back on their feet?
In my instance I've had an incredible outpouring of people in the local tech community get in touch with me for jobs/companies that they see me fitting with. - Tanya McGinnity
@Sue - to help spread the word of your interest, who ppl may know and connect you with? - Sonny Gill
Sue does an incredible job in sharing and spreading the word... Kudos - Tanya McGinnity
Create awareness. Talk to your community about other CMs you know in need. - Teresa Basich
@Tanya - definitely. I've experienced the same in my job search and it's amazing how much people WANT to help. - Sonny Gill
Also, reach out to people about what they're looking for. If you know someone is looking, talk specifics with them. Make connections. - Teresa Basich
@Tanya I agree Sue is amazing. I think it is all about sharing and networking - lizGreaux
I was thinking a bit about how community members are the best references for community managers in many ways. - Tanya McGinnity
CM's can't be everywhere, though I'm sure they'd like to be. Have to rely on the community to make them aware of opportunities out there for them. - Chuck Hemann
@Teresa - I'm glad you noted that, T. Many say 'yes I'll help', but only few get down to the nitty gritty and get to know the person and what they wan.t - Sonny Gill
@Chuck, so true. There are opportunities out there but it's hard to keep tabs. - Teresa Basich
Thinking more strategically - should these CM job seekers be open to accepting opportunities within their realm but not FT/paid? To continue their experience while searching for IT. - Sonny Gill
Being part of a Community/Social Media network of practioners is incredibly helpful. - Rachel Makool
Are there any job boards for our 'types'? - Tanya McGinnity
@Sonny, Most people want to help but don't know how. To figure out how to help, you have to ask questions and narrow options down. Creates more opportunities for connection. - Teresa Basich
re: your question Sonny...that probably depends largely on a person's professional experience. Lots of experience and folks are probably less likely to accept something like that. Lesser experienced folks, probably would. - Chuck Hemann
Great question, Sonny. I think you have to be really careful about those opportunities -- choose wisely, because often you can find your time being driven by volunteer, unpaid opps. - Teresa Basich
not unlike what happens with traditional PR students...many, especially now, are taking paid (and even unpaid) internships in order to keep gaining experience - Chuck Hemann
The problem is, if you've been out of work for an extended period of time, people will want to see your filling your time with various opportunities, not JUST job searching. - Teresa Basich
I'm seeing more Community & Social Media managers positions pop up but not many Director or VP roles. - Rachel Makool
Thank you, Sue! Great resource. - Teresa Basich
Teresa/Chuck - I hear ya. That's a scary part of what's going on in this job market that some people are somewhat 'forced' to take these other opps just to fill their resume, build their experience, but in a smaller role. - Sonny Gill
Thanks for that link Sue! Very good. - Tanya McGinnity
@Sonny, that's been one of the hardest things for me, juggling projects to gain more experience while managing the search. Not an easy task. - Teresa Basich
@Sue - yes, CM/SM internships. Do you feel these companies are afraid to hire FT, not sure what it all means, or just don't give CMs enough credit for what they do within an org? - Sonny Gill
How does one manage an internship while still needing to find FT work? That's always been a show-stopper for me. - Daniel Johnson, Jr.
@Teresa - totally with you there. I become hesitant at times to accept numerous projects, but know it'll benefit me - even if ti does cut into me searching for a FT role. - Sonny Gill
@Sonny @Teresa - I wouldn't necessarily see it as a "lesser" role (unless it's just flatly way below your skill level). I'd see it as an opp to continue building a skill set, but also an opp to make an impression on a future employer. - Chuck Hemann
Moreover, why would a company or brand trust their communication to an intern? - Daniel Johnson, Jr.
@Daniel - that's definitely tough to balance the two. You've got to make time for the latter for sure, but if the internship is taking up all your time, you may have to reevaluate what you're doing. - Sonny Gill
As a Canadian, there are much fewer CM roles so being able to telework would be ideal, but isn't the reality just yet. - Tanya McGinnity
I'm sort of kicking myself right now, because I didn't go for a part-time internship, because of the low wage and commitment required. Now that person has an in for a possible full-time gig in same organization. - Joe Kikta
@Sue - for those needing remote positions. Can job seekers 'sway' employers or educate them on how CM roles can be well managed remotely. - Sonny Gill
@Joe, I think that's what happens with quite a few internships -- it's like a trial run, you know? Don't kick yourself, just keep moving. - Teresa Basich
Many of you are really speaking to a few issues I have about the way CM is viewed - many are afraid of hiring Full Time, many pay low wages, view it as a support role rather than a strategy position. How do we break this kind of perception? - Tanya McGinnity
I'd be more likely to go for a contract position, but not an internship. - Daniel Johnson, Jr.
@Joe - That stinks but it's something we second guess sometimes being on the job search. The thing is - we sometimes ahve to get over our own egos and what we think we deserve, to instead grind it out and get to that goal of ours. Not saying you, specifically. But it's with internships, projects, etc. I've done the same. - Sonny Gill
Sometimes hard to think long-term strategic when the short-term view is not good. - Joe Kikta
There are definitely more contract or temp-to-hire positions available than FT positions. Fear of financial commitment to a fairly new role. - Teresa Basich
Hate to bring up the word, but monetization is key. Curious how many community managers work on that piece as well. Building your resume in that area might help with job search. - Karen Gutierrez
Q2 is up folks! - Sonny Gill
@Joe - I definitely hear ya re: long-term vs. short-term. It's a battle with ourselves, let alone the job market itself. - Sonny Gill
Could it also be an accreditation issue. We don't necessarily get degrees or go to school to become a CM.. - Tanya McGinnity
Sonny Gill
WELCOME: November 6, 2009 - Welcome folks to this week's CmtyChat! Can't believe it's November already but it's a great time of year. Feel free to introduce yourself, what you do, and how we can help you.
Hi! I'm Tanya - a newly out of work community manager here in Canada so I'm sure this session is REALLY going to help me :) - Tanya McGinnity
Hey Tanya! We're actually using your suggestion from last week as a starting point, so thank you! - Sonny Gill
Sonny - I appreciate it! I was so busy applying for jobs that I forgot I suggested it! - Tanya McGinnity
Hi Sue. - Tanya McGinnity
Hey Sure! How are ya? - Sonny Gill
We'll let the late ones sneak into the classroom ;) Let's kick things off with Q1 - Sonny Gill
Hi Everyone - lizGreaux
Hi Liz - Tanya McGinnity
Hey Liz - thanks for joining us :) - Sonny Gill
Hi everyone! - Teresa Basich
Hi, I'm Chuck and addicted to social media. - Chuck Hemann
Joe here, back for some more learning. Looking for marketing gigs that ideally involve Social Media. - Joe Kikta
I'm Daniel Johnson, Jr., and I'm a Social Media Manager on the Loose in Cincinnati, Ohio. Currently participating in National Podcaster Post Month. - Daniel Johnson, Jr.
Hi, I'm Rachel, live in San Francisco, used to manage Community for eBay and am now consulting. - Rachel Makool
Sonny Gill
WRAP-UP: October 16, 2009 - Hour definitely flew by, but thanks so much for everyone who joined us today! Great chat and things to look forward to as CM roles continue to grow within businesses.
Thanks for another great chat, Sonny! I missed this, glad I could join in this week. :) - Teresa Basich
Thanks so much to everyone, I love this chat, and the people. Have a great weekend - lizGreaux
@Teresa - glad you joined us this week - always nice having you around :) - Sonny Gill
Thanks Sonny for moderating today's chat. Had some great conversations. :-) - Patricia Ooi
Thanks Liz! Appreciated your input today! - Sonny Gill
Thanks Sonny - see you next week! - Rachel Happe
A little late today, but enjoyed, as usual. Good to have you back moderating today, Sonny! - Joe Kikta
Thanks for facilitating, Sonny. These are a nice chance to confab with like-minds. - Scott Moore
Thanks a lot Scott - definitely smart folks in here. Great to chat and brainstorm with one another. Appreciate you stopping by. - Sonny Gill
Sonny Gill
Q4: October 16, 2009 - We're all looking to see great communities in practice. Let's talk about some non-mainstream communities that are doing great things and give them some recognition!
lol stump the CM's? - lizGreaux
Seems like it, haha! - Teresa Basich
I think what Amber is doing at Radian6 is really interesting... creating a very loose network/community of practice that is non-centralized - Rachel Happe
Was thinking the same thing, Rachel, but wasn't sure if Radian6 is considered mainstream around here or not. ;) - Teresa Basich
Sue - well something outside of what we're used to reading about online. (e.g. for social media examples: dell, comcast, southwest) - Sonny Gill is also very interesting - B2B so a bit hard to grasp though - Rachel Happe
Radian6's community and business approach is really interesting, though they provide an online product, they approach their clients and prospects with a service mentality. - Sonny Gill
Intuit, EMC, SAP, Oracle - a lot of the big tech companies have great, active communities - Rachel Happe
I like pointing to Something Awful as one an under-regarded communities. - Scott Moore
The open source communities are also some of the most active - Rachel Happe
@Scott - that's an interesting example. Looking at their live stats on their homepage, there's definitely a lot of activity there by their members. - Sonny Gill
@Rachel Yes. the open source communities are good examples of self-forming and self-governing communities. - Scott Moore
A lot of financial services companies have both recruiting/alumni communities that are pretty active and expert communities targeted toward educating customers and prospects. Goldman Sach is one company that does that - Rachel Happe
@Sonny yeah, there is a long talk by the site founder that is not about community, but actually has some interesting things to say about knowing who is in yoru community and what will bring them together: - Scott Moore
@Sue, I think MarketingProfs has done a fantastic job of really fostering conversation on their LI group page. - Teresa Basich
@Sue can you recommend some of those LinkedIn groups that are working well? I'd like to take a peek at them. - Scott Moore is doing some interesting things - mostly social media tool approach rather than a destination community but... creating community none-the-less - Rachel Happe
@Sue @Teresa - LI groups are so under utilized (or self-promoted too much) in my opinion, at least the ones I'm a part of. - Sonny Gill
@Rachel - community for a cause. They've done very well in building a supportive community around them. - Sonny Gill
@Sonny @Sue, I agree. I just took on the role (hasn't been announced yet, but will be soon) of JobAngels LI group manager and hope to make some serious changes over there. A lot more discussion and connectivity, stopping the promotion and spam. Such potential there. - Teresa Basich
@Teresa - that's great to hear! JobAngels rocks - I'm sure you'll do great things with their LI group. - Sonny Gill
MP does good work, Sue, and I really like how Beth has taken a stand as moderator there and really pushed out the unnecessary spammy posts and fostered real discussion. It's one of my favorite groups. - Teresa Basich
@Sonny @Sue, Thanks! I'll have lots of questions for this group here when I actually get started, trust me. ;) - Teresa Basich
Great examples, Rachel! Love 'em. - Sonny Gill
Congrats @Teresa! - Rachel Happe
@Sue, You're welcome! Let me know what you think. :) - Teresa Basich
Thank you, Rachel! - Teresa Basich
@sue Thanks! I also followed up on Q3. - Scott Moore
Sonny Gill
Q3: October 16, 2009 - Getting a little deeper into the scope of CMs, how do you balance the responsibility of being a community manager and your personal lifestyle? Does being a CM consume that part of your life? Compromise?
It's all about discipline, organization and not being afraid to say no, and ask for help - lizGreaux
You have to able to understand the demands of your role but also draw boundaries for yourself. Work/life responsibility is our own to manage, no matter what role we hold within an organization. - Teresa Basich
@Teresa - right. Though we have our respective companies/communities to answer to, if there is an opportunity to expand the role and not have everything on your shoulders, we should be able to communicate that w/the biz (hopefully). - Sonny Gill
What we do, alot of times is harder than working in a traditional setting, but technology allows us to adjust as well. It's harder in the sense that, at 5PM we don't punch out and leave work behind, but better in the sense that it allows me to leave the house, pick up the kids from school and still be available online. - lizGreaux
I've noticed (I've worked in a lot of workaholic places) that most of the time we get sucked into to working around the clock is because we don't have self-discipline or we fail to communicate boundaries to others. People are *generally* pretty respectful of waiting if they know you take off at 5:30 or don't work weekends, etc - Rachel Happe
@Sonny, I think that's part of understanding your role and drawing lines -- seeing where there's opportunity to bring in help and expand the role to accommodate more players. - Teresa Basich
In community management there is always something more you could do so you *have* to be OK with just taking the weekends off or whatever it is you need to balance life. I've started recently to just try and not turn my computer on on the weekends. Not healthy - Rachel Happe
@Rachel - that's one thing I've noticed, for myself and others, that those boundaries need to be prevalent and understood by the people you work with for it positively work with your own work schedule/method. - Sonny Gill
@Rachel, I agree. I think we often put those demands on ourselves. Yes, the digital space is immediate and demands a higher degree of attention, but it's our own responsibility to draw lines. Generally speaking, people will understand, but you have to be clear about them. - Teresa Basich
@Gil yes and you have to have some general agreement on when everyone is available for collaborative work. Everyone can't have completely different schedules - Rachel Happe
I've tried more of the weekend disconnect as of late also. It definitely helps in recharging and easing the mind and getting it ready for when you do have to turn it back on full swing. - Sonny Gill
Supporting @Rachel and @Liz: setting boundaries with your community is a good way to give them space to become more self-reliant. - Scott Moore
One thing that you learn with a little experience is that if you don't push back, no one will see an issue. And pushing back a bit isn't a bad thing. It's appropriate. - Rachel Happe
Each community has a unique engagement ebb and flow, too. Being aware of the slower times and actually taking advantage of those times to recharge, even if it's in the middle of the day, is so important. - Teresa Basich
I think it depends on the company as well, My most recent experience has not allowed me to define boundaries - lizGreaux
@Scott & @Teresa Both great points - Rachel Happe
@Scott - really good point. Less hand-holding and more of slowly showing that the community can be semi-self sufficient when you're not around. - Sonny Gill
@Sue and sometimes you have to be drastic to make a point :-) - lizGreaux
Recently Dawn Lacalade mentioned "taking the community down" for a day as a way to demonstrate value to internal stakeholders. Would it be too radical to take a "sick day" when things are hot in your communities to rally them around self-help? :) - Scott Moore
I think maybe my bigger issue... working from home, I'm interacting all the time but not F2F...oddly lonely sometimes - Rachel Happe
Do you guys reduce your normal 9-5 work hours to compensate for all the hours worked over the nights and weekends? - John F. O'Sullivan
@Sue, absolutely. It's easy to feel bad about taking breaks during "typical" work hours, but feeling bad doesn't help you recharge. Taking advantage of those down times does. :) - Teresa Basich
and by "them" I meant community members. - Scott Moore
@Rachel, I find that to be a problem, too. Working out of the home can be great for flexibility but tough on the camaraderie we need. - Teresa Basich
@Scott that is a very interesting idea about taking the community down for a break - Rachel Happe
@Scott, my issues haven't been with the community as much as with the company - lizGreaux
and their lack of understanding community - lizGreaux
@Rachel @Teresa Have you two ever looked into co-working? We have a sort of mini-movement here in Cincy on that front - Joe Kikta
@Scott, I heard a similar story about a design firm -- the owner shuts down his place once every 7 seven years to travel and refill his creative well, so to speak. This example is much more dramatic, but still, the idea is an interesting concept. - Teresa Basich
Q4 is up folks! - Sonny Gill
@Joe, we have some co-working places scattered about SoCal, but the drive to the ones I'd really like to be a part of is killer. Having lived the insane commuter lifestyle, I find that just getting out to my local coffee shop works well enough for me right now. But, still hoping for more co-working opps closer to me! - Teresa Basich
@liz that's rough. If you haven't checked out Dawn's stuff, she has great practical advice and tools to help tie your community work to stakeholders goals. She recently said she "bribes and nags" by taking stakeholders out to lunch and asking them "What keeps you awake at night" and then tries to see how her work can help them. - Scott Moore
@Joe my partner Jim and I work together a couple of times a week so I do get some interaction but yes, I'm kind of wondering about a long term arrangement with more people - Rachel Happe
@sue what I was thinking was, one day, when some arguments are getting hot on your board, post, "I'm seriously ill. You folks need to handle this yourselves". - Scott Moore
@liz not to pimp but I just posted something about getting stakeholder buy in - Best practices from our community members - Rachel Happe
I've also found that just getting out for events like the lunch meetup I went to today can be valuable. Gives you that sense of camaraderie and opportunity to network and share ideas. - Joe Kikta
@Sue. Wait! Took me a while to properly digest the direction this might take. There were two types of "take down". 1) Call in sick to you community to set boundaries that you (and your company) can't always be there and they can take some responsibility. 2) Literally shut down the community for a day so that your stakeholders can see that the customers want and need that community. - Scott Moore
Sonny Gill
Q2: October 16, 2009 - Some companies/employees would rather prefer a '2-headed monster' for their CM role. How do they balance 2 CMs and their responsibilities? Can a community connect with 2 separate faces to the company?
As a community user, I wouldn't have a problem with there being multiple managers as long as they worked together and didn't have different rule sets. - Michelle
@Michelle - do responsibilities stay the same w/only difference being their hours? Or are co's better suited to address specific responsibilities for the two? - Sonny Gill
LOL 1 I think it is more bang for their buck, 2: They may not take the web seriously and understand it's potential, it's more of an after thought. I believe that communities look for more than 1 face, I believe it shows them there are people, it is a team, a group - lizGreaux
I could see non time critical responsibilities being split up but things like responding to spam, trolling, etc, would need to be done by both when each is on his/her "shift" - Michelle
I don't see it as a 2-headed monster. Running a community by oneself can be quite a burden, so sharing the responsibilities and hours I imagine would be very helpful. I don't do much beyond comment moderation.censoring in my job, though. - John F. O'Sullivan
I think a "good" (for lack of a better term) company can spot strengths and weaknesses among their employees, and use that to their advantage - lizGreaux
@liz - we'd all hope companies understand what communities are looking from them and their CM. Unfortunately not all see it as such, but good people like those in this chat are definitely helping pave the way. - Sonny Gill
I should clarify - I don't see it being any more of an issue that working together with coworkers in any other job. - John F. O'Sullivan
I think it is useful when having multiple cmty managers to have identified areas of expertise but also different hours to handle general tasks - Rachel Happe
@Sue - I like that idea and thought. Very true that different ideals for each CM would show up if they had exactly same responsibilities. - Sonny Gill
So for example, one community manager may be the legal/IP expert, one a content expert, one an events, etc. or however the team skills break down. And letting the community know that will self filter some of the content flow appropriately - Rachel Happe
@John, I agree with you, we are no different than any other professional, the only difference is the venue on which we work - lizGreaux
@Rachel - that type of breakup is important, and even more so to communicate that with the cmty so they know who to go to for what. - Sonny Gill
I work with multiple community managers. We use Radian6 work process and CoTweet to coordinate our work assignments so that we speak with only one voice on any issue. - Joseph Thornley
@liz Yup. Apart from looking at what employees can offer, also good to look at what community members can offer. Some of them are good leaders and are more than happy to share some responsibilities in helping to manage the community. - Patricia Ooi
@Sue I think that is an important point, CM's are just that "managers" and as a manager it is important to manage people, moderators, etc. - lizGreaux
From a management perspective one person has never been able to encompass all the skills needed to effectively manage community at a large org - always need to be the facilitator/ombudsperson to get the right skill set to properly address a topic. Those other people may be product people, support people etc... and they should be helping to manage the community - Rachel Happe
@Joseph - does that process create a seamless environment with your CMs? Any issues that arise? - Sonny Gill
A community has a plethora of roles. The Manager is just one. Other possible ones include the evangelizer, the librarian, etc.... Wenger has some good thoughts on this. - Robert Swanwick
@Rachel - so more of an integration within the entire business vs. just one or multiple Community Managers? - Sonny Gill
@Sonny one thing we definitely try an encourage cmty managers to do is to think that they are a cross-functional team lead and not responsible for all the activity themselves... but the orchestrater of that activity - Rachel Happe
Right on - I think that's an important aspect to understand for CMs but also social media and related folks in the digital space. Silos need to be broken down for the business to be able to function with all members on board and understanding the co's goals. - Sonny Gill
Some of the best community work I did was as a team of three FT CMs. Over time, we specialized, but worked tightly so we could back up each other's work. - Scott Moore
@Scott - that's great to hear you and 2 others were able to work cohesively but with your own specialties. - Sonny Gill
@Sonny this is making me thing I should write up some stories about that team. All three of us were hyper-aware of conflict management and group facilitation so communication was high quality and high quantity. - Scott Moore
@Scott - that would be good to see how the team functioned, responsibilities, how they were each unique but also integrated. - Sonny Gill
Sonny Gill
WARM-UP: October 16, 2009 - Hey everybody! Thanks for joining us for CmtyChat this Friday. Feel free to introduce yourselves here, tell us what you're doing this weekend, or mention any additional questions/thoughts you have for today's chat!
Quiet around here today! It's been awhile since I've joined you guys. What topic are we chewing on today? - Teresa Basich
I've got a call so I may not be able to join in for much but hi all! - Rachel Happe
Hi, Rachel! - Teresa Basich
@Teresa It always starts out quiet it seems then picks up steam! You'll like it - we're gonna get into the idea of 9-5 being lost and how it affects community manager roles. - Sonny Gill
@Rachel - hey! No problem at all - nice to get a hi, at the least :) - Sonny Gill
@Teresa hi - nice to 'see' you :) - Rachel Happe
@sonny Nice topic... I think all community managers are a bit mad (as in crazy)! - Rachel Happe
Nice to 'see' you, too, Rachel. :) @Sonny, great topic, and one I bet community managers probably have to grapple with more than a lot of other roles. - Teresa Basich
Some addtl thoughts for those who haven't read these posts (one being mine - w/o trying to self-promote): and - Sonny Gill
cool (as a totally random aside) - my friends & I are doing an Iron Chef potluck... just found out the secret ingredient... Beet. - Rachel Happe
@Rachel -- LOL, should be fun. ;) I see borscht in your future! - Teresa Basich
Nice! Well, it sounds fun minus the beet part - but I'm sure there will be some good dishes! - Sonny Gill
Let's kick things off and brush the dust off this room :) - Sonny Gill
@Teresa @Sonny mmm... borscht - any other good suggestions? I had a great beet flatbread pizza recently - Rachel Happe
yes, sorry - workshifting... - Rachel Happe
Hi Everyone! Liz here, with all the rain this weekend I am hoping to catch up with updating some of my websites :-) - lizGreaux
Hey Sue! Let's hope you stay away from getting sick! And thanks again for rocking as guest host last week :) - Sonny Gill
Hi Liz - thanks for joining us today! - Sonny Gill
Q1 is posted up! - Sonny Gill
Thanks Sonny :-) - lizGreaux
Sorry I can't be part of today's chat. Conferencing at BlogWorld Expo in Las Vegas! - Bryan Person
Enjoy Bryan! We're holding down the fort :) - Sonny Gill
speaking (?) from the Boston Federal Reserve. We are developing a social media strategy for the Bank. - Brenda Dolan
Feel free to drop any questions you want me to get into! - Sonny Gill
A little late to the party today. Had a lunch meetup and ran a little over. - Joe Kikta
Hey Joe! - Sonny Gill
Sonny Gill
Q1: October 16, 2009 - With the thought that the digital space has seemingly eliminated the traditional 9-5, how has this affected the role of a Community Manager? Pros & Cons?
I don't think the role of the CM was ever 9-5, as I tell people, the web never closes and it is a 24/7 job, we are in every time zone and like 7-11 never close - lizGreaux
Humn ... PRO: able to work from anywhere (not office-bound) CON: I think I have been working a lot more than just 9-5 - Patricia Ooi
@liz - very true. Do you feel the CM role is only made for certain ppl? Outside of the skillset, the mental aspect and being able to cope w/this type of work schedule? - Sonny Gill
@Patricia - I've found myself, just being in the digital/social media space in itself, working and learning at all times of the day. - Sonny Gill
The immediacy of the web has really allowed people to access companies/customer reps/community managers at any hour. But, I think Liz is right, this might've never been a 9-5 job. - Teresa Basich
@Teresa @Sue - very true it hasn't been confined to 9-5. But with the plethora of tools in the social space, it's definitely expanded the scope of the role that much more. - Sonny Gill
@Sue, really good point. If anything, I'd bet most people who use online communities use them after hours. - Teresa Basich
Sonny Absolutely, not every job is for everyone, and working in an environment where we are limited, i.e. body language, it takes a special "communicator" to be able to communicate our emotions, and keeping them positive. - lizGreaux
Hi Sonny, here @ the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston, we are finding that there has to be a relationship between PR, IT and Marketing. (sorry if this is a double-post..) - Brenda Dolan
One thing I find frustrating is, Companies new to online community / social media have a hard time swallowing or understanding that CM is not a 9-5 job - lizGreaux
@Sonny, I also think the prevalence of mobile devices that support the Internet has added another level to community engagement outside the 9-5. - Teresa Basich
Granted the immediacy of the CM/support type role in online communities, why are some companies yet to adhere to these standards that communities come to expect? - Sonny Gill
@liz - exactly what I just questioned! :) - Sonny Gill
@Sonny, I don't think they understand it - lizGreaux
@Teresa - good point. That helps for sure - though can very well pull us away from our personal lives as well, but we have to understand this going into this type of role. - Sonny Gill
I believe that most companies, although may be national or international, can't see past their own world, time zone, etc. - lizGreaux
@lizGreaux also, making sure that the message (even if it is negative) is accurate. Misinformation to your population is worse than no communication at all. - Brenda Dolan
@Sonny @liz Yeah, and one colleague asked the other day why am I still checking the community "after work" - Patricia Ooi
@Brenda, for sure :-) and not only misinformation, but understanding, getting people to understand - lizGreaux
@Patricia LOL - lizGreaux
You'd be amazed to see how Frank Eliason (@comcastcares) functioned in his community support role. He had two phones in hand, replying on one, checking twitter search on the other. It was amazing and scary at the same time. - Sonny Gill
If this is a job and not a hobby, it seems like you really need more than one to cover the whole day just like in any other profession that runs 24 hours. - Michelle
When you guys work outside the 9-5, how do you access your communities? Work laptop? Personal desktop? iPhone? Blackberry? - John F. O'Sullivan
@Michelle, absolutely and depending on the community more than one person at a time - lizGreaux
@Michelle, you would think, right? Why do so many companies hand these responsibilities to a one-man team? Probably for the same reason they don't understand how the role extends past the 9-5. - Teresa Basich
Great point Michelle. - Sonny Gill
Just posted question 2 relating to what Michelle brought up on multiple CMs. - Sonny Gill
@John, Blackberry and I also tether it to my netbook when not in my home office - lizGreaux
@liz getting ppl to understand is one of our greatest challenges here. - Brenda Dolan
@Sue, I also think alot of companies are uncomfortable with employees working outside the office, where they can be watched / controlled and the company knows they are getting what they are paying for. - lizGreaux
@liz - good thoughts there and definitely something co's are afraid of. Feel free to add to the discussion of Q2! - Sonny Gill
Chiming in late. Glad to see the conversation turn to sane coverage of communities with multiple CMs. While companies often don't understand staffing (and balk when they see the cost of actual staffing), we can do a lot to help educate companies when we see over-ambitious job descriptions. - Scott Moore
Sonny Gill
Q5: October 2, 2009 - A question to our CmtyChatters: What topics or ideas in the world of community management do you want Bryan and I to cover in future chats? We're always looking to provide value to everyone that comes here, so feel free to share any topics that would be helpful to the cmty!
I think this was good. There is a deeper issue at stake which has to do with the dance between 'the social web' and what makes for social responsibility. - Leanne O'Shea
@Bryan, the business side of communities -- make money, save money. Community managers need a way to show they are contributing to profits or revenues, or find themselves on the short list come layoff time. - Lou Ordorica
@Lou Are you suggesting a ROI discussion? - Joe Kikta
I like Lou's idea But is talking about the value of lurkers interesting too? - Arié Moyal
@Joe Yes indeed! - Lou Ordorica
Maybe only of limited interest, but maybe something about building a community when you _aren't_ a brand? Something for us hobbyists? - Michelle
@Sue: A whole discussion around content moderation ... that's certainly something that can be arranged :) - Bryan Person
Interesting ideas! Love the suggestions. We'll definitely be putting these topics onto our list. - Sonny Gill
Have you talk about bloggers as community managers aka Kumbaya bloggers? - Arié Moyal
Sonny Gill
Q4: October 2, 2009 - Are co's trying to PUSH the point of community engagement/monitoring too much? Sidewiki and Seth Godin's Brands in Public are doing similar forms of pushing products/services towards companies and brands. What's that say to the CMs and Social Media folks out there?
If enough of your customer and buyers are talking about your brand, then of course you want to listen and participate in that conversation. Right now, it's a novelty, and entrepreneurs see the opportunity to make a buck and do this without asking. I think it will become a standard form of public relations for companies eventually. - Lou Ordorica
Can't force a community. It has to develop somewhat naturally. - David Spinks
@Lou - it is a bit of a novelty but something that companies should be doing already. Understandably, they all don't get it and when big names push services like these, those co's who don't monitor/engage, will take notice. That's where Seth and Google realized their play. - Sonny Gill
No but you can force participation. Already know of a lot of people who have installed this, not because they want to, but because they need to monitor what is happening on their own sites. - Leanne O'Shea
@Leanne - right, they've certainly forced the need to participate. Is it necessary given the other tools and avenues we have and are trying to educate companies on? Maybe not. But opportunities for the big boys to at least try. - Sonny Gill
It shows the very organic side of communities growth and the impossibility to control or manipulate conversations online - Lilian Mahoukou
@DavidSpinks Can't agree more It's like making friends You can't make friends just because you want to You have to work at it and let the other party see benefits to engaging - Arié Moyal
@Leanne: Right. At this point, it's an uncomfortable new reality for businesses. To be prudent, you really do need to download Sidewiki and start monitoring. - Bryan Person
Lilian: Good point re: You can't always be in control of what is being said about you/your brand - Arié Moyal
Just as an aside, there is another company with exactly the same tool - ReFrame It - There product is now dead thanks to Google, and whether or not you like the tool, there's is actually a better product. More privacy options for a start. - Leanne O'Shea
@Sonny Good point! These days, brand monitoring is increasingly difficult, lots of conversations scattered across different platforms. I'm guessing it might be better for Google to try to find a way to "aggregate" these conversations into something useful to their algorithm rather than creating yet another platform for community engagement. - Patricia Ooi
@Leanne: I saw someone mention ReFrame It the other day. I can't imagine it's going to get any attention now. - Bryan Person
No. And even though I don't like the concept, theirs was a better product. Good example of bigger not meaning better. And sad for them. They've had the product on the market for 12 months - Leanne O'Shea
Last Q of the day - Q5 - is up! - Bryan Person
@Leanne: Maybe Google will buy them? - Bryan Person
@BryanPerson Not a bad idea: Google buying ReFrameIt - Arié Moyal
Why would they waste the money. They've done it, they have the user base and will introduce the other aspects themselves. - Leanne O'Shea
Leanne: You could say the same for buying YouTube though - Arié Moyal
@leanne buyouts make sense when buying is cheaper than developing certain features. As Arie points out. My example would be FB buying FF. - Scott Moore
Maybe, but I don't think ReFrame It has the user base and the technology is not that complex. - Leanne O'Shea
I suppose it depends how much Google offers ReFrameIt and if the developers get to keep their jobs - Arié Moyal
Sonny Gill
Q1: October 2, 2009 - Kicking things off...Do you see Google's Sidewiki helping evolve community engagement for website publishers? Pros and cons?
It's early days still, but I think Sidewiki monitoring and (potential) engagement is at least something that community practitioners have to be paying attention to. - Bryan Person
I think it will help during the development phase, but for day-to-day activities it could be a huge distraction. - Lou Ordorica
One con right off the bat: No easy way to monitor when your company/brand/etc is mentioned on a Sidewiki. You have to do it manually by going and checking all the pages. Kind of a pain. - Bryan Person
That will change very soon, though, as Sidewiki has an API that companies like Radian6 can use. - Bryan Person
Could we talk about reaching the "radical transparency" level ? If yes, it's a good point for truly great and respectful brands - Lilian Mahoukou
Who will own the conversation? Do my comments belong to me, or Google? - Lou Ordorica
@Bryan Agree about your comment about "No easy way to monitor". Plus, did I read it correctly that site owners have no control over the comments? No way to delete comments? What about spam? - Patricia Ooi
@Sue - right. I think it's more so a feature that Google is trying to leverage as their own expert community vs. giving publishers a chance to connect w/a different community. - Sonny Gill
Imagine a product manager who lovingly crafts a product page, only to have it trashed with unsolicited side wiki comments like "this sucks," deserved or not. It could get real ugly fast. - Lou Ordorica
@Patricia: Site owners *cannot* delete comments, including spam. They can only flag them for abuse. It's up to the "Google algorithm" to determine what stays, what goes. - Bryan Person
@Sonny I agree with you. Publishers must have their say on it - Lilian Mahoukou
@Lou: It certainly could, though, remember, Sidewiki only shows for users who've installed it in their browser. That's probably still a relatively small number. - Bryan Person
@Lou - the comments are more so Google's than anyone's IMO. But the interaction is something that a company will HAVE to monitor now because Google basically pushed it on them. - Sonny Gill
@Bryan, True. Still, this is Google we are talking about. I think Google should allow the site owner to opt out of side wiki. Not everyone is ready for it. - Lou Ordorica
@Lou: One point to note: Content producers/publisher can post a comment that will always display above anyone else's. In a way, that *could* serve as the authoritative comment. We'll see. - Bryan Person
What pros are there for something like Sidewiki? Easy entry into brand/community monitoring for companies who are slowly getting into that world? - Sonny Gill
What about fake side wiki comments from the competition ? - Lilian Mahoukou
yes it's not that hard to create bogus accounts and spam people - Leanne O'Shea
@Sonny: The main thing I can see Sidewiki evolving into is a tool to trash sites, rightly or wrongly. If the comments were legit, then I doubt there would be much of an issue placing them into the brands existing community context. Anonymity breeds a consequence free environment, which has its downside. - Carl Watson
@Lilian - good point. What is google going to do about moderation? Bigger question for them vs. companies who are getting commented on view SW. - Sonny Gill
@Lilian Exactly. At least in a private community you can attach credibility to a person based on their reputation. Who decides trust with Side Wiki? A Google algorithm? I wouldn't feel comfortable relying on this. - Lou Ordorica
@Sonny Yeah, I don't think companies are going to enjoy having public interactions pushed to them and not having some sort of control (e.g. opt out option like mentioned by @Lou) over them. - Patricia Ooi
And it seems inconsistent. I've already seen sites were the ordering seemed odd. - Leanne O'Shea
The only control I've seen thus far is Google allowing site owners to post an 'admin' message that will remain at the top of all comments. I did so on my blog to test it out. - Sonny Gill
there is no opt in or out - you have to install sidewiki to monitor what others are saying. But even if you do there is little that you do. - Leanne O'Shea
It's not - it just allows you to have your voice over your site. Not a lot of control really. - Sonny Gill
@Carl: Posts aren't exactly anonymous. You have to be logged into your Google account to comment. Of course, it's not that difficult to create a fake Google account and start commenting, but still ... there is at least one layer designed to give some transparency to this. - Bryan Person
@sonny @lou posting to sidewiki requires a google account which ties to your google profile. length and complexity of comment, age of your google profile, number of comments on sidewikis and votes of your comments seem to be tied to what floats upwards. - Scott Moore
Q2 is up! - Sonny Gill
it's not very transperant. You don't have to have much information on your profile and yes, easy to create bogus accouts - Leanne O'Shea
@Sue: No opt-out right now, although I have seen some ways developers can try to block Sidewiki on their sites. - Bryan Person
@Scott - very interesting. Thanks for pointing that out. Important factor as far as relevance and truth goes in comments. - Sonny Gill
@Sonny: Exactly and the lack of control from the brand side is going to be key, I can see this being pretty consistently blocked by most corp communities. The lack of Opt-in, the lack of a user history and lack of transparency will also be key factors. - Carl Watson
BTW, I'm still skeptical that it will take off. Worth seeing how it develops, but remember that searchwiki and their new commenting haven't impacted brands on searches or new articles. - Scott Moore
blocking it is not so easy, causes other problems - Leanne O'Shea
@Carl - right. And as Scott just pointed out, the takeoff rate for more of a tech-feature like SW will be hard to grow IMO. But still, very early in the game. - Sonny Gill
@Scott: You're right; it could be that this is a big fuss about nothing. Google doesn't necessarily have the best track record in this area. - Bryan Person
well they can monitor it, just can't do anything about comments they don't like. Web owners cannot remove comments. - Leanne O'Shea
On the up side, google says there will be an API which means a cottage industry of apps allowing site owners to monitor, capture, aggregate, etc. - Scott Moore
Good point Bryan - relates to my 2nd question - Sonny Gill
I'm currently fighting to keep a troll out of my site. He'd have a field day with something like this. I don't like it at all. - Michelle
@Scott: True but my worry is that a company with the size and influence of Google makes this more of a factor, it very well could pan out to be nothing. - Carl Watson
@Michelle - care to explain the situation w/the troll? Via Sidewiki or otherwise? - Sonny Gill
@carl I agree. which is why it's worth watching. I'm skeptical because it has to be good enough for people to get something out of those side comments. - Scott Moore
@Scott: Agree. I just made a similar point in my response to Q2. - Bryan Person
@Sonny - I don't want to derail the convo with specifics about my battle. My point was that, when you have someone attacking your site, you have enough trouble keeping them from adding content to the site itself. Sidewiki gives them a venue that you have no control over to attack you. - Michelle
I think Google should offer a "Side Wiki for Enterprises" This is a wonderful tool for distributed groups collaborating on web sites. Teams can annotate pages in development, and the meta information stays on the page. No need to track changes, bugs, in a separate system. - Lou Ordorica
Really? Please say some more about what you mean. - Leanne O'Shea
Michelle, your concern about 'trolls' echos my own. I'm not very much in favor of Sidewiki for exactly the reason that there is no control/moderation ability. - Starwind
Understand your point Michelle. A huge concern that Google will have to meet head-on. - Sonny Gill
BTW, it's not as though there is no control - it's just not in the site owners hands. Comments can be voted up or down and flagged for review. The link Sonny posted to in this week's welcome post is a really detailed explanation of what is known so far. I'll report it for convenience: - Scott Moore
And I've been watching the Microsoft site. There is a comment with high approval ratings that appears way down the page. The top comment actually refers to it, so the content is comparable. There is not way to explain the logic of why the comment appears where it does - except that Google doesn't like it and it has been quoted in a number of articles. There is nothing transperant about their monitoring process. - Leanne O'Shea
Scott - that type of control may not be enough for branded sites, though. - Starwind
Wouldn't you be concerned that the lack of participation from brands/companies could hurt them as well? I'm not saying I think SideWiki will take off but if it does wouldn't it e worse not to participate? - Arié Moyal
Seems to me the brand/company really needs to participate -- respond to some of the comments. - Starwind
So you're saying they shouldn't opt out of SideWiki? - Arié Moyal
Not saying that - I think they need to take a hard look at the positive/negative aspects and make their decision based on this. If they take it on I think they need to be part of the conversation. - Starwind
But would it be detrimental to the brand NOT to participate? - Arié Moyal
Well they only choice you have at the moment is to remain ignorant about what is on your site, or download the toolbar and keep track of it, or engage in the limited ways possible. - Leanne O'Shea
I think a community-oriented message from the site owner at the top of the sideWiki can be helpful in directing users, no? - Arié Moyal
@Arie I would think so. Maybe even a little legal disclaimer depending on your site (I can see that health sites would be keen on making it clear that sidewiki comments are not endorsed by the site owner). - Scott Moore
Sonny Gill
Q3: October 2, 2009 - Is Google taking from a company's community by giving people an option to share, but externally, outside of the company's homebase?
I think so. It's great for users to not have to log into each site and be able to comment everywhere but not so good for folks trying to build up a community of their own. - Michelle
@Michelle - I see Google pushing this onto companies and their sites vs. something more natural. I could be wrong and prove to be an important feature, but will take some time to see that. - Sonny Gill
Maybe. Also a weak shot across Twitter's bow. Most of those type of comments outside of the community are now on Twitter. - Joe Kikta
I think that by having the UGC distributed between both Community and Sidewiki, and by Sidewiki only being available to those with the pluggin, there is an obvious impact to the content of a community. Even leaving the other issues aside for now. - Carl Watson
@Joe - true. We all know the adoption rates of new features/platforms that get released in this space also. Don't think it'd be able to take away from the value of monitoring on Twitter. - Sonny Gill
@Carl I agree. Tools that fragment the discussions in your community are not helpful. - Lou Ordorica
As far as fragmenting the discussions, do you monitor Twitter for comments outside your community, on your community? - Joe Kikta
@Sue - that's where I see the adverse effect of a feature like this. They're trying to silo community engagement, if your issue is what comes about. - Sonny Gill
Skeptical at how much community sidewiki will be able to foster. There's no threading or replies. The comments can be reordered in any way based on votes and reputation (which can change). add to that that, at the moment, google is mixing in blog post with comments and it seems like it breaks the experience. - Scott Moore
@Scott: Do you have a good example of a site where we can see blog posts being mixed in? Had heard of that but not yet seen it. - Bryan Person
@bryan I admit, I am making an assumption based on reports that google is seeding empty sidewikis with blog posts. - Scott Moore
@Scott - I wonder if given the breaking of experiences/interaction, if Sidewiki will even become a big enough factor for companies to care to monitor? - Sonny Gill
@sonny good point. Maybe it will become another "slightly separate" channel to monitor ala twitter, getsatisfaction, or the general commentosphere. :) - Scott Moore
I think the 'ordering' means that comments are always being decontexualized from each other. I think this just encourages people to right random rubbish. I know Google are banking on people responding to the content of the site, but.... - Leanne O'Shea
@Joe I think it depends. If your client is a significant brand, then it totally makes sense to monitor what fans and detractors are saying in mass social media spaces like twitter. Astute brands will do this themselves, or pay Seth Godin $400 to do it for them. :) - Lou Ordorica
Just posted Question 4 if you haven't scrolled up. Hard to tell if it's not announced :) - Sonny Gill
@Lou: Ha! From a selfish point of view, I do think it opens up monitoring service opportunities for agencies like ours. - Bryan Person
I think it will have a tough time gaining traction because of the extended toolbar requirement. Also, it's more of a toy, IMO. Is there enough value to make people want to install? - Joe Kikta
How much does anyone want to bet that Chrome comes with this already embedded in the Browser? it will catch because people are entranced with the possibility of being able to say anything without the consequences of social responsibility - Leanne O'Shea
I think you can say the same thing re:sidewiki displacing community about twitter and fan pages So it's not terrible It's just difficult to manage in it's current form - Arié Moyal
Sue: Good question Benefits: Ease of use maybe? No searching for where to comment. - Arié Moyal
@Leanne: I think that's the plan for a future update of Chrome. - Bryan Person
Joe: I think there are enough toolbar users to support it - Arié Moyal
@Sue: Many corporate sites require a registration process for commenting. None of that with Sidewiki (apart from being logged into your Google account). - Bryan Person
@Leanne - really good point. We can imagine what Google will be integrating come their Chrome OS release. - Sonny Gill
@Arie: Know where we might be able to find out total number of Toolbar users, and how many could be installing Sidewiki? - Bryan Person
Interestingly enough - people have already created scripts to block the use of Sidewiki on their sites: - Sonny Gill
@Sonny Maybe Seth will be installing that script - Joe Kikta
he hasn't yet - Leanne O'Shea
@BryanPerson Oddly the only think I could find was an article on from 2003 where Google already claimed to have millions of users - Arié Moyal
Is refusing to participate a good idea though? - Arié Moyal
@Joe - good point Joe. He may after he catches wind, but I can imagine the backlash from the blogosphere :) - Sonny Gill
@Arie They may actually have millions of users of the toolbar, but the extended version? Probably not - Joe Kikta
@Sonny I think if he hasn't suffered from his current stance yet that he could survive backlash from blocking. :) - Joe Kikta
@joe Google says they are planning to add it to Chrome by default. That might be interesting. - Scott Moore
Last question, Q5, is up! - Sonny Gill
Joe: True and not everyone wants to leave a comment... which brings up lurkers again... - Arié Moyal
@scott Have you seen any numbers on Chrome adoption yet? - Joe Kikta
@joe I haven't looked at browser share in a while, but this news story says they have about 3% of the browser market: - Scott Moore
Sonny Gill
Q2: October 2, 2009 - For a company as big as Google, why haven't they been able to utilize their brand's strength to build a strong community platform? Can Sidewiki create that expert cmty for them?
Big doesn't necessarily mean better in terms of community building. That hasn't really been Google's strength. - Bryan Person
Right. Jaiku, of course, Google Video - never really built that much of a community following vs. other micro-communication platforms, and YouTube of course. Perhaps why they bought them :) - Sonny Gill
Sidewiki has the potential to do that, but I'm skeptical of the "algorithm," at least at this point. People who contribute to a community expect some of kind of "response" to their contribution/interaction. And depending on how nutty the algorithm is--or is perceived--they might not get that. - Bryan Person
Good points B. That's kind of where they separate themselves from creating a true community feature/platform with engagement and interaction vs. a place that's more to the benefit of Google and a database of 'expert' opinions on thousands of websites. - Sonny Gill
Google Groups? - Joe Kikta
@Sonny: Not to mention additional advertising revenue. - Carl Watson
@bryan I agree. Orkut has been their biggest social/community play to date. Okay, groups, but that feel less social.... :) - Scott Moore
Q3 is up folks! - Sonny Gill
@Bryan Agree! I always think Google is "more of a robot than human". They are very good in tracking our passive activities (the site we visit, the site our blog links to, the feed we read, stuff we share with friends etc) but struggle when it comes to building active communities. - Patricia Ooi
I really don't think that sidewiki will create communities. It's really just a mechanism for giving everyone and anyone the right to comment anywhere. There is not threading of comments, no capacity to respond directly. This isn't community building. - Leanne O'Shea
@Leanne Good point. Maybe "Google Graffiti" is a better name for this service! :) - Lou Ordorica
I vote for Google Graffiti as the new name! :) - Joe Kikta
Joe - probably a more accurate name, at the least. =) - Starwind
More like "Graffiti Board for the Disaffected" - Leanne O'Shea
I may be remiss in saying so but the attitude in the Valley isn't very community focused at all... so I'm not surpised that Google isn;t trying - Arié Moyal
It could be that most developers are intraverted and that there's still a "don't tell anyone what we're doing they might steal it" attitude in business - Arié Moyal
@Arié I don't think you are out of line with your comment that community isn't the focus of many people in tech. - Scott Moore
Sonny Gill
RANDOM: October 2, 2009: Welcome everybody and thanks for joining us! Feel free to post any additional questions, ideas, links, jokes, etc. - or just say hi :)
A great overview of Sidewiki, today's topic: - Sonny Gill
Thanks for the link! - Joe Kikta
Danny's post was excellent! Here's my analysis from earlier this week: - Bryan Person
Looking forward to today's chat! - Bryan Person
@Bryan, Me too! The "annotated web" -- fascinating topic. - Lou Ordorica
Sorry I'm late! Hi everyone! - Arié Moyal
Little OT but wanted to say that I only use friendfeed for cmtychat so please don't be offended if I don't friend back. I literally only come here once a week for this. - Michelle
Bryan Person
Q4: September 25, 2009: Weigh in on our last question of the day. Facebook Pages offer real opportunities for engagement, but can they really build to a true "community"?
They could. If you only exist there or find out that all your traffic comes via FB then it would be a true community. This is such a theoretical Q. Of course it CAN happen. If you choose to focus your attention there..... - Dave Weinberg
Given the tips and ideas we shared today, yes. But, you truly have to have a cause, produce, service that people are passionate about and that they want to talk and engage on. - Sonny Gill
Similar to other Social Media, it is a facet of the whole community - but it isn't the only part. - Lee Anne Orange
I would still call it Community Lite..does it offer ability for other fans to engage each other easily? - Chris Bailey
For a small group of individuals with a common interest, I think FB could be the community. For any larger business or group, I think it is only part of the whole toolkit. - Amy Blake
@Sonny Agree 100%. They can be...but too often brands jump in because they think it will bring in wild success without much effort. - Scott Bishop
If the community is facebook-oriented and spend more time on this platform rather than another, we could build a true community. The FB page tools are sufficient to let people interact each other and talk back - Lilian Mahoukou
I don't think Facebook is a community platform like Communispace and LiveWorld offer I also don't think most people come to facebook to meet strangers Facebook is very strong-tie oriented - Arié Moyal
And FB is constantly tweaking so its possible that we'll see more community apps integrated in future - Chris Bailey
Again it depends on what your goals are. It can, if that is your only online presence or community initiative. However, by being in a silo you are missing other opportunities to spread your brand's message. - Angela Lawson
It can't be your primary community. However, community is such that it has to happen wherever your customers / readers are. You should be running several communities. - Maria Ogneva
@Chris - it's more so indirect engagement between fans. That may be the drawback but maybe what Facebook @mentions feature will help regain (IF they implement it within comments of comments (if that makes sense) - Sonny Gill
@Amy Agreed. Any org or brand big enough must engage users where they exist. People are already talking about your brand. Find them and engage. Drawing those tools together into your arsenal to drive traffic and actions where you want is the strategy behind everything. - Dave Weinberg
you should be on FB and Twitter and industry specific community sites, getsatisfaction, and definitely on your site. Wherever your customers are. - Maria Ogneva
@Sonny, perfect sense..I think with more moderation from the brand/individual, there is more possibility for community - Chris Bailey
I think it's tough to build only on FB. Still people out there that despise FB, but will engage in other forms of SM - Joe Kikta
@Dave Exactly! FB is part of a larger strategy/conversation/plan/etc. And each organization/business is different. The beauty of having all these tools is we can focus where we can best serve our clients/customers! - Amy Blake
@Dave @Amy Jeremiah Owyang has a nice term for engaging users - "Fish where the fish are." - Lou Ordorica
Lou: I just said that on another Q - Arié Moyal
Thanks Lou - Dave Weinberg
@Dave @Lou: Love this: fish where the fish are!! - Amy Blake
Don't you also have to be careful to not spread yourself too thin in the SM World? Unless you just have an army of ppl to listen, engage and manage... - Joe Kikta
Yeah it's tough to build community on FB and nearly impossile to build community around FB apps! - Arié Moyal
Great discussion here, everyone! I'll be hopping off soon, but don't stop on my account :) - Bryan Person
@Joe With new multi-posting tools (posterous and tumblr) you can create content once and have it show up everywhere at once. Listening can be filtered and thus watched smarter. But the bigger you are, the more ppl you'll want part of your team. Eg. Kodak has a chief listener as well as a content person and an engagement person as part of their SM team. - Dave Weinberg
@joe, you have to know what you goals are and staff accordingly. The big mistake companies make is jumping in because everyone else is there and not doing anything after the page is up. I can say I have made those mistakes and learned hard lessons from them. - Angela Lawson
@Dave But how much of that will plug into FB? Isn't it kind of self-contained? Do they allow plug-ins of content from other sites? Other than Status Updates, that is. - Joe Kikta
@Joe It plugs in perfectly. I can email posterous which then sends that content (any media types) to my synced and connected accounts, eg. fb, tw, delicious, etc.... - Dave Weinberg
@Angela - so true! At my agency, sometimes we would start a client with a "jump start" but then we give them a detailed guide on how to proceed with the tools we helped them develop (this is for clients with small budgets, and who want to do it themselves). Starting something and not continuing is deadly for your brand. No one wants to see a moldy old page. - Maria Ogneva
@Arie - I think that building community is possible, but given the need to work around apps, which can be very distracting, I think it's bit of a struggle. - Starwind
The focus is broader, rather than narrower, particularly when users bring in apps. From my point of view FB's strength is relationships of a more personal, rather than community, nature. - Starwind
Bryan Person
Q3: September 25, 2009: Facebook group or Facebook Page? How do you decide which one to use? Which is better for community building?
FB fan pages are more interaction-oriented - Lilian Mahoukou
Facebook suggests using Pages now only. - Dave Weinberg
@dave does that suggest that group will end up going away? - Angela Lawson
Pages are dif. Since new posts and fan activity auto-posts to other ppl's feed which is different than groups and many apps, a good page can keep growing exponentially if monitored. Groups do not have this functionality PLUS cannot be creatively altered using FBML. - Dave Weinberg
I personally love Pages as there are more opportunities for the community to share and engage in the open-stream. Easy to connect with others' messages. - Sonny Gill
I agree with Sonny. We closed down our group and started a fan page - much better features/interactivity. - Michele Gartner
I've just moved a client to a Fan Page from a Group. Not enough time to really judge yet, but so far I'm pleased. - Amy Blake
@Angela Groups wont go away, they serve different purposes. Pages are for companies, orgs and individuals who want to exist as a brand. Groups are more informal and can exist unofficially around those things. - Dave Weinberg
From a member point of view, it is more fun to use pages. You really meet with other people. At the end of the day, it's more members between them. What do you think ? - Lilian Mahoukou
Then, do groups encourage some members to lurk ? - Lilian Mahoukou
@Lilian - right on. Groups to me, as a member of a few, feel like more of an information portal vs. one of engagement. - Sonny Gill
Luckily for me I have @dave on my team and he is moving our group into a Fan page. It's in design currently but I thrilled with what I have seen and am sure it will be great for our engagement and promotional needs. - Angela Lawson
@Lilliian @Sonny That may be OK if your goal is to eventually drive traffic from Facebook to your own site - Lou Ordorica
@Lilian: I'd agree that Facebook Pages tend to be more engaging than groups, but groups tend to have a more limited focus. - Bryan Person
@Lou - good point, Lou. It does all matter on what the goal is of the organization. - Sonny Gill
Definitely pages vs. groups. A group is like a closed community. Fan page is like becoming friends with the brand, and interacting like you would with a FB friend - they show up in your feed, you can write on their walls, etc. - Maria Ogneva
So it's a more natural shift from friend page to fan page - you aren't asking the fans to alter their behavior too much. If this makes sense. - Maria Ogneva
Pages, no question. Groups are only left up for people that created them a while back and haven't transfered. There is no overwhelming reason to start a new group - Scott Bishop
@Maria - you make a good point about users' behaviors on FB. You're right, they don't change as both profile and fan pages are similar in structure. - Sonny Gill
@Maria--that's how I see it too: like a friend page, but for an organization/brand/etc. - Amy Blake
However, Fan pages can pose a greater moderation challenge. You need to know going in what you feel is acceptable and when, if ever you moderate or delete. - Angela Lawson
How about the discussion forums? Do you see those working better on a group or a Page? - Bryan Person
The main advantage i see for groups is being able to send users a message that will show up in their inboxes (fb and potentially e-mail) - Arié Moyal
@Bryan - I'll be honest, I don't pay attention to discussion forums on pages as much as I would in groups. They're more prevalent in the latter. - Sonny Gill
@Angela: Moderation challenge for Pages is greater because they're more public than groups, right? - Bryan Person
@Arie you can do that in a page too. - Dave Weinberg
They other main advantage of pages is the ability to control the look and feel. - Angela Lawson
@Arie, the email option is the last benefit of a group over a page. But I feel that getting too many emails from a group begins to get annoying pretty quickly - Scott Bishop
Dave: It shows up in their Updates tab not in their inbox form what I can tell. Did I miss something? - Arié Moyal
Until recently with Fan page updates showing in your stream, it was easy to get lost in the shuffle with the Updates link instead of Inbox for messages - Joe Kikta
Scott: It's definitely a question of balance :) Too much of most things is a turn off - Arié Moyal
@Scott Agreed! The e-mail option could be used as roundups to post community activity summaries or news - Lilian Mahoukou
@Sonny: The Facebook NBA Page - - is about the only Page where I've seen high volume of content on Discussions tab - Bryan Person
@Arie updates show up in the feed, but you can private msg your fans. - Dave Weinberg
@bryan, Wall feeds will post to fan/friends profiles. More info going out in real time. - Angela Lawson
@Lilian: And what would be the equivalent of using that e-mail function with a Page? - Bryan Person
@Bryan Discussion in pages in no more public than in groups. Think of pages as groups 2.0. - Dave Weinberg
I rarely check my Updates link and I think I'm not alone in that practice - Joe Kikta
@Dave: More "public" in the sense that updates are going out to fans' activity streams. - Bryan Person
@Joe: I *never* check my Updates link, so you've got me beat - Bryan Person
@Bryan - 1. No idea why I wasn't apart of that page being a bball lover 2 - discussions are definitely robust. Due in part of the size of their community? Passionate fans? Good thing to ask yourself as a company - do you have something that people will be passionate about? - Sonny Gill
@Bryan updates to discussions dont appear in fans' streams only major updates and changes do. Such as "X became a fan" or "Watch our new video" - Dave Weinberg
I don't see where you can private message your fans directly into their inbox It goes to the updates tab doesn't it Also you can;t PM one-on-one from what I can tell Maybe Fan Pages for apps is different - Arié Moyal
I just (like a few days ago) started up a FB group for my site. I had a page but didn't really know what to do with it. Maybe I just conceptually understand groups better? After reading this, I'm going to take a closer look at what pages do and see if maybe I should just forget the group and focus on the page. - Michelle
@Bryan It could be a good idea to drive traffic to the main community - Lilian Mahoukou
@Michelle Focus on the page. - Dave Weinberg
I never check my Updates tab either - Arié Moyal
@Bryan But as pages are more interaction-oriented, I would go for engaging in conversations to learn more about my community and talk back. - Lilian Mahoukou
@Arie The link is under your page image. Click the "more button" and "send an update to your fans" appears. - Dave Weinberg
Q4 is up! - Sonny Gill
@Sonny: Thanks ... Q4 is up! - Bryan Person
@Dave: Sorry, was referring to Wall posts! - Bryan Person
Dave That's an update It doesn't go to the inbox nor do they get a notification of an update - Arié Moyal
Fact is that Social Media and Community are merging in a way that many of us "long-time" community practitioners did not see coming. You can't ignore it any longer. My best advice is either hire or connect with a social media guru. When we hired @dave it was exactly for his social media experience. And as a result my social media knowledge has improved drastically. - Angela Lawson
@Dave And as previously mentioned, ppl don't check their Updates section.... - Joe Kikta
@Arie I dont think thats true. It send you to a fb msg dialog box not an feed update. - Dave Weinberg
Dave Maybe it has changed recently but that's not my experience - Arié Moyal
@Joe agreed, neither do I. I think if that sends an update then its useless, except for that mnay ppl still receive updates via email. I know you can private msg your fans, I might just be getting the way to do it wrong. - Dave Weinberg
You can private message your fans but not as the Page, only as yourself which doesn't always make sense to people - Arié Moyal
@Arie Right, that is good if the page is a politician or the like. Unless the brand is tied to an individual this seems awkward. - Dave Weinberg
Dave: Yep it's awkward if you can;t message people as the app, which doesn't solve my problem LOL - Arié Moyal
Bryan Person
WRAP-UP: September 25, 2009. Thanks for your contributions today. Very lively discussions--and from several newcomers, too. See you all back here next week!
Thanks for the topic and all the sharing here ;) - Lilian Mahoukou
Thanks Bryan + everyone---my first time on friendfeed--I'll be back! Meanwhile, see you all on Twitter (I'm BlakeGroup)?! - Amy Blake
Great topic and lively discussion today! Thanks for moderating Bryan! - Joe Kikta
Yep, got a lot out of today's discussion that will help me do even better work for my clients :) - Chris Bailey
Thanks for a fantastic chat today everyone! Appreciate you all for stopping by. - Sonny Gill
Thanks. Enjoyed this as a newbie :) - Dave Weinberg
Lou Ordorica
Great session! My Top 3 Take-aways:
1. Facebook Fan Pages – more interactive, dynamic, brand engagement on Facebook 2. Facebook Group – less engagement, but suitable to establish a Facebook presence and link traffic to your site 3. Content – Photos, videos, work best. Update frequently. Use FBML to segment content based on your audience. - Lou Ordorica
Great takeaways Lou! Appreciate you sharing them. - Sonny Gill
@Lou: Thanks for sharing! On point 2., note that Pages can help drive traffic to your site or main community. - Bryan Person
Bryan Person
Q2: September 25, 2009: Let's try to come up with a good list of best practices for driving engagement on Facebook Pages. Add your recommendations below.
I'd welcome practices for driving to FB groups too... or do I just need to move my group to a page?! (Welcome hearing that too). - Marcia Conner
have someone dedicated to monitoring FB pages and interacting - Chris Bailey
Video on front page is highly recommended. - Dave Weinberg
#1 engagement strategy is Consistent Frequency of Posts. If you aren't posting engageing questions or don't exist. - Scott Bishop
Watching your analytics from the back end is key to showing you where and how to make changes. - Dave Weinberg
learn to use FBML and produce custom tabs to guide people to where you want them to go - Chris Bailey
Well, not sure if it's best practices, but I try to post engaging content (my client's and other relevant content), encouraging fans to participate - I usually ask questions, have fans express their opinion. - Maria Ogneva
what do you recommend for "interaction activities"? - Lee Anne Orange
Use links to drive traffic back to your main community - Angela Lawson
@Marcia - here's a good resource to look over comparing pages vs. groups - - Sonny Gill
@Scott: What do you recommend for frequency of posts? One a day? Two a day? You also don't want to overdo it ... - Bryan Person
@Scott - absolutely right. Keeping the community engaged, testing their thoughts and what they feel about certain topics. Can't remain stagnant. - Sonny Gill
@Lee Anne a simple "action items" box on the front like the Humane Society does. If you can sexy that up... even better. - Dave Weinberg
Scott: I agree - frequency of posts is key. Also, when I post, i usually try to find the most attractive thumbnail. - Maria Ogneva
My best practice: Use photos and video to drive engagement. - Bryan Person
@Scott, each community differs. There is no set formula. A b2b community is different than a consumer or social community. - Angela Lawson
@Angela: How well do you find that people follow those links back to your central community? - Bryan Person
Thanks Dave, I will check it out. - Lee Anne Orange
Even for our very own CmtyChat - people have been responding very well to Bryan's audio previews. I personally love them! - Sonny Gill
I don't like FB for community personally. I feel that it's too restrictive. - Maria Ogneva
@Bryan It depends on the purpose of the page. You need to beware of "Reader Fatigue". But a few times per week is fine. Again, it depends on the buinsess and why people have joined. But too ofter I see pages that havne't been updated in weeks - Scott Bishop
@Maria : Agreed! It's easy to launch a FB fan page but very important to keep people interested by your content - Lilian Mahoukou
@Angela +1. The value of time increases exponentially with B2B over B2C, you need to deliver good return on attention. - Lou Ordorica
We are just moving to a fan page but with our FB group and Twitter we get a lot of traffic from Social Media referals. - Angela Lawson
@Maria not once you learn FBML and gain from others' pages. Building a custom page is not simple drag and drop, but can be really effective over time. - Dave Weinberg
I have found contests are a good way to both atract new fans and get your current community engaged. But after the need a strategy to keep the interest - Scott Bishop
@Dave fortunately FBML isn't that hard to use, particularly if you know yr way around Dreamweaver - Chris Bailey
@Scott: Right. A case a starting something and not keeping up. Leaving it to die! - Bryan Person
@dave good point. I should get on that :) - Maria Ogneva
@Scott - funny you mention that. I've seen great contests on Twitter and Facebook, but never heard a peep from that brand after the fact. - Sonny Gill
@Bryan, @Scott : We need to think long-term strategy not campaigns - Lilian Mahoukou
@Chris Even without, the Facebook developer test area isa great tool which helps. - Dave Weinberg
@Maria Good point with the thumbnails. Often this is the first impression to draw initial attention to your page posts - Scott Bishop
@Lilian - bingo! Social media is NOT a 'campaign' - Sonny Gill
@Sonny Exactly. As important, if not the strategy after the contest. I rarely see brands roll out content well after the initial bang - Scott Bishop
We're planning a recurring contest that askes people to vote on the content submitted and pick a winner - Arié Moyal
@Scott - the short-term for them is great, but sustaining that push and drive is even more important than the contest itself. Something companies are slowly learning but yet to implement well. - Sonny Gill
@Sonny How to avoid the campaign pitfall ? - Lilian Mahoukou
We ran a contest lately and it just bombed. i think that users are just getting bored with the same old tricks. - Angela Lawson
@Lilian @Sonny Totally agree..Social Media needs the same strategy process as any other part of the biz. But campaigns exist within that strategy. - Scott Bishop
Facebook seems to be full of apps, contests, etc. that are ultra-popular for about 5 secs and then go away. People lose interest. The novelty wears off - Joe Kikta
@Joe - how would you drive interaction and keep that engagement up? - Sonny Gill
What about champions within your community and on FB ? - Lilian Mahoukou
What I want to take away from here is ideas to help me manage the community that exists around our facebook app Any ideas? - Arié Moyal
@Joe Pages are dif. Since new posts and fan activity auto-posts to other ppl's feed which is different than groups and many apps, a good page can keep growing exposnentially if monitored. - Dave Weinberg
@ Angela what kind of contest was it? - Arié Moyal
@Arie: Community around a Facebook app? Say a little more about that. - Bryan Person
@Lilian @Sonny Agreed! Not a campaign! My partner and I actually wrote a post "Marketing is not a drive by shooting" on our agency blog! - Maria Ogneva
Q3 posted ... but feel free to keep going in this thread, too. - Bryan Person
To me, FB is like the web/blogs. It's content-driven. Of course, the key is knowing what content your community wants and what they consider to be of value! - Amy Blake
@Dave True. Constantly adding new content and soliciting involvement is key. Same with apps. Have to be constantly evolving. @Sonny - Joe Kikta
Well we have a facebook app which is basically a phone/voice messaging/IM Java app and I'm finding it quite difficult to reach out to users - Arié Moyal
Q3 is up for anyone who hasn't scrolled up :) - Sonny Gill
@Arie Sounds interesting. Name of App? What's your target? - Joe Kikta
App is called Telephone - Arié Moyal
I want to strengthen the community that already uses the app as well as have discourse with new users but there seems to be a black box there People think "I'm using a facebook app" not "I'm using babyTEL's app ON facebook" - Arié Moyal
@Arie: That link doesn't work for me. - Bryan Person
@Arie: Didn't work for me either - Joe Kikta
Who knew? Facebook vanity URLs are case-sensitive? - Arié Moyal
Bryan Person
Q1: September 25, 2009. Let's get this party started with a discussion about communities on Facebook. Can you build community there? And if you have good examples, please share them.
You shared a good one Bryan with Chris Brogan's book page - - full of conversations, people excited about the book, as well as fun images shared with their book. - Sonny Gill
but is it community if it doesn't have interaction from the brand/person/etc? many don't interact with their fans - Chris Bailey
Community can have numbers but is nothing without engagement IMO. - Sonny Gill
i find many brands using FB pages still only use it to broadcast rather than interact - Chris Bailey
It's one thing to use Fan Pages to build community around a brand using Fan Pages It's a whole other thing to build community around a facebook app - Arié Moyal
@Chris: This is a very good question and one I've struggled with in looking for good examples. Many Facebook really are just "fan pages," lacking any true engagement. - Bryan Person
I'm new and wanted to introduce myself. I may just lurk this round. - Beth Brodovsky
@Bryan its one thing that i'm working with clients to see...I believe there's immense untapped potential here - Chris Bailey
Yes, you can build a community on a fan page, although the built in functionality don't scale as well to a large community in my opinion - Chris Christensen
@Chris: On the engagement side, right? - Bryan Person
one celeb who does seem to interact is Vin Diesel - Chris Bailey
I created a group to focus on "what are people learning on FB" long before I even knew about fan pages. Conversation has slowed down recently, but looking to get more going. ( - Marcia Conner
@Chris C and Chris B: Welcome to the chat! - Bryan Person
One problem with all social media is companies want to listen but no one understands that you have to talk back. - Angela Lawson
I'm trying to build up a fan page and make it interactive - am hoping that our participation at IDF helps increase that interactivity - Michele Gartner
I have been working to build a community on the Amateur Traveler fan page. It works pretty well for a smaller community. - Chris Christensen
@Bryan...yes, engagement side has immense untapped potential - Chris Bailey
@Marcia That's a cool group. I like what's going on over there! How do you try to keep the interaction going? - Sonny Gill
So many groups I belong to are just announcement boards, but b/c there isn't a way to see new activity in the groups, ppl easily lose site of them unless the moderators are always pushing out msgs. - Marcia Conner
Then, what to do when you share some information and nobody talks back ? Is it about the content or about the community profile ? - Lilian Mahoukou
@Chris C: And you also have the Page for This Week in Travel: - Bryan Person
@weinberg81 has been playing around with a flash module on our OpenAmplify page and it works well. - Angela Lawson
@Bryan Oh right I forgot about that :-) - Chris Christensen
Here are a few big brands doing it well. Some interact, let community be a part of it, while others broadcast a bit more - - Sonny Gill
@Chris C: Not much engagement there yet, but give it time. Maybe you should pimp it some more on the show. - Bryan Person
@Lilian what are you building a community for and how are you trying to drive traffic and interest? - Chris Christensen
I find trying to do the one on one stuff on facebook is difficult because there is very rarely an "in" Facebook users have strong ties to their friends It's not like twitter where you can just walk up to someone. - Arié Moyal
@Angela...yes, interacting is part of what's missing. I think because it's FB, they don't put the community connection to it - Chris Bailey
Here is the Page of Vin Diesel that Chris Bailey mentions: - Bryan Person
@ChrisBailey: So, is that really Vince posting those updates, or one of his handlers? - Bryan Person
Randi Zuckerberg, Facebook’s managing director, offered a few suggestions for FB page best practices for non-profits at Mashable’s Social Good Conference in New York. See some reflection of her talk here: and here - Dave Weinberg
@Bryan thanks for the plug... but wrong URL :-) - Chris Christensen
@sonnygill Periodically I send out notes to encourage others to add in their experiences learning on FB, but overall it feels far from like a community... other than in seeing who else is interested in the topic. - Marcia Conner
@Lilian it's both and so much more. You can't narrow it down to one activity or focus. - Angela Lawson
@Bryan I truly believe that's Vin..or else its a good illusion - Chris Bailey
@Arie - you're right, one-on-one interaction is difficult on FB pages, but so long you help nurture the conversation and get people interacting, that's pretty good engagement. - Sonny Gill
@Chris C: I plugged This Week in Travel. That URL worked for me. Want to put the right one in here? - Bryan Person
(WIll lose internet here in a moment as the Comcast guy is installing cable) - Chris Christensen
@Chris - tell him we know Frank, the Twitter guy. ;) - Sonny Gill
I am not sold that FB is a community channel unto it self but we want to use it as an additional engagement tool to support our community. - Angela Lawson
@Marcia - for you, how does it feel different than a community? Because less of a one-on-one feeling? - Sonny Gill
@sonny, there isn't the usual back and forth, [much] commenting on each other's contributions, etc. I usually experience and learn from in online communities. - Marcia Conner
What about building community on facebook around facebook apps? Anyone doing that? - Arié Moyal
Chris and Bryan: Can you guys offer some ideas about hot to foster interaction via FB fan pages? I kind of agree that it's hard to do this. I find that other platforms are better for direct interaction. - diane sager
I think for big brands and well known social media heads, it's easy to build a thriving community - but for small biz/orgs, that's where it becomes a bit more difficult. - Sonny Gill
Personally, if you spend enough time in one Social Media Network you will eventually build a community in that environment. - Owen Greaves
@Angela I see FB as Community Lite..great for brands/individuals just starting out - Chris Bailey
@Angela: There could be a couple of different approaches to the Page, but having it support or connect to a central communityis a good way to go. - Bryan Person
@Chris C. It is more about launching new discussions, but it appears that people takes FB as a more personal space ? - Lilian Mahoukou
We see FB as another tool for engagement, and like the immediate access to photos/video. But it's much more closed than Twitter. - Amy Blake
@Owen - right. But for businesses, is that something they're willing to invest time in on Facebook, when results typically come from big brands? - Sonny Gill
@Angela: But I also think that the content on the Facebook Page should be able to largely stand on its own. Consider it a touchpoint. - Bryan Person
Do we have certain brands more willing to drive conversations/interactions ? - Lilian Mahoukou
I have to be honest and say that I would be willing to invest the extra time into community building on FB bec I think this platform has longevity - diane sager
@diane you have to create good content that generates dialogue..then interact with fans via comments..a good start - Chris Bailey
FB can be used to build communities for small/start up businesses where these companies are not threatened by their legal department. - daphnerocha
Sonny: Only if there is a perceived value - Owen Greaves
FB is a personal space so I find it better to connect to what they are doing, get feedback, see pictures of listeners (just started to see those posted) - Chris Christensen
What about using Facebook as a "tentacle" to draw people to your community site, particularly for B2B? Any examples people can share? - Lou Ordorica
@Lou that is exactly what our goal is - Angela Lawson
@Chris Christensen: Want to add in the link for your Amateur Traveler podcast so folks can check it out? - Bryan Person
@Chris B I think that is a great point, like any community, when you are starting at least you need to start the conversation with some good questions - Chris Christensen
Q on Facebook pages: What account should I use to start a page for an organization? I made the mistake of creating one using my personal account. Had to nuke the group when I left the organization. - Stephen Palkot
@Angela: Want to share an example? - Bryan Person
Seems "community" means many different things to different people here, like in real life: I visit a community, I learn w/ a community, I am part of a community. - Marcia Conner
My good friend @foiledcupcakes has built a great following for her new Chicago cupcake biz using Twitter & FB. About 800 fans in a few months. - Scott Bishop
Right Marcia - vs. Adidas, who's community is huge, doesn't have much interaction outside of commenting on Adidas' posts/images. - Sonny Gill
I like the format in that you see all comments at once, without any searching. It's the access that feels limited, and doesn't feel like a community. - Amy Blake
@Lou - that is our goal, too. I also use it to encourage our team to participate more in our community. - Michele Gartner
@Scott - care to share the link to FB page? - Sonny Gill
Because of the viral nature of facebook, where your friends see your and your page's activity in their feeds, any constantly fed page, with interactive features will grow quickly. Whether you use that as a tentacle to your own company or a standalone it gives you the opportunity to engage in ways you cant elsewhere. - Dave Weinberg is the Amateur Traveler page - Chris Christensen
@Stephen: Administrators have to come from individual accounts, I think, but you can create a Page with more than one administrator. At LiveWorld, we have 3 or 4 admins. Should any one of us leave ... - Bryan Person
once you have 100 "fans" you can get the short url - Chris Christensen
@ChrisC I think FB's value is how easy it is to create content - videos, pix, writings that are housed elsewhere (YouTube) - Chris Bailey
@Amy yes, I agree. It is like a forum of discussion although new applications are being deployed by 3rd parties to make that experience richer. - Chris Christensen
What kind of content should we share on FB ? Should we go more visual with videos and pictures ? - Lilian Mahoukou
The Humane Society is a great example of a great FB page. they have multiple types of content, ways to engage, activities to do, ways to share, etc. - Dave Weinberg
@Lilian..absolutely, there are ways to pull in YouTube and Flickr content..don't limit yrself - Chris Bailey
Once interesting thing that I think it was CC Chapman was doing was running ads on his on fan page to drive people to where he wanted them - Chris Christensen
I feel that using any of the social media channels in a silo can hurt your overall efforts. A good engagement plan incorporates all channels. If you have a Fan page that does not have the same messages as your corp community then you have missed a great opportunity. - Angela Lawson
@Lilian yes absolutely, the FB community is very visual. It is the largest photo sharing community on the web. - Chris Christensen
@Angela do you think yr overall community and FB community share same demographics? FB might be good way to target a different demo - Chris Bailey
@Chris B. : I guess it's more fun and 1 picture is more interesting than 1000 words - Lilian Mahoukou
@Chris using ads to drive traffic is great and cheap. If you can drive down into a specific targeted audience and send them towards a targeted tab in your page, the sign up rate for fans will be higher. - Dave Weinberg
Aren't FB fanpages indexed, which is also great for driving traffic? - diane sager
Question 2 is up for everyone! - Sonny Gill
I feel that facebook users don;t want to be engaged with unless it's with a celeb they're crushing on or a big brand. Agree/Disagree? - Arié Moyal
@Angela I agree, [shameless plug] that's one of the reasons the LiveWorld product lets you feature content into a FB app that you can add to your fan page or your fan's pages - Chris Christensen
Diane: You're not really using facebook for community buildingin that case though - Arié Moyal
@chris for us, yes. We have a narrow audience of Developers and Semantic Web professionals. - Angela Lawson
@diane They should be but I have not heard much conversion yet on the SEO value of FB fan pages. Has anyone? - Chris Christensen
@Arie I think I disagree. For our product (Intel vPro) it's another avenue for tech support - Michele Gartner
@Michele @Angela The potential for growing your community by having a Facebook presence is very appealing, isn't it? The challenge is to optimize your presence, be compelling, and know the rules for participation. - Lou Ordorica
I see FB and Twitter as part of any organization's overall marketing/PR plan. Depending on the company, customer services and sales should be involved too. I encourage clients to have a Social Media team to include employees who have good info to share but don't usually get a voice. - Amy Blake
@Angela: What's the link to you page? Mind adding it here and/or to the RESOURCES thread that I started? - Bryan Person
because you are reaching out to a vast group, by having multiple types of content to engage and encourage participation is ideal.... caters to the many different learning styles people have... - daphnerocha
@Amy do you tie that into your cooperate blog then, promoting that to twitter and facebook? - Chris Christensen
I'm psyched to take a look at the other fan pages you guys are listing - feel like I created mine in a vacumn and would love to see what everyone else is doing. - Michele Gartner
@Amy Excellent point, very well put. - Lou Ordorica
@ Michele would you say then that it might only really work for a certain demographic? - Arié Moyal
@Arié Facebook covers a pretty wide range of demographics now days - Chris Christensen
@chris. Still working on getting them to blog, but absolutely yes, that will become a focal point for them. This is very much a step-by-step process; my clients are newbies at this! - Amy Blake
@Arie Hmm... not sure about that. The "This week in travel" page has a lot of interaction. Perhaps the subject of the fan page needs to be about something people are really passionate about. - Michele Gartner
Guess you just have to advertise your fan page in a place where your passionate users hang out :-) - Michele Gartner
@ Chris facebook might but not all of them will want to interact with you A lot of people on facebook want to be left alone to interact with their friends - Arié Moyal
@ Michele Well sure, fish where the fish are - Arié Moyal
I hate to leave this great discussion but I just got called into a discussion with Johnson&Johnson, bye - Chris Christensen
@ Arie LOL, sometimes it's hard to find where the fish are biting ;-) I advertise on our online community - but where are other good places to promote a fan page for high tech? (In this case, Intel) - Michele Gartner
@Chris C: Thanks for joining us! - Bryan Person
Michele It depends Does your fan oage give you insight on the users' likes and dislikes? - Arié Moyal
Bryan Person
RESOURCES: September 25, 2009: I'm adding links to examples of Facebook Pages and posts that explain Pages in more detail. Share your own links if you've got 'em! - Facebook Page for Chase Jarvis, professional photographer. Good use of video and photos, and plenty of fan interaction. Thousands of photos from fans from the Photos tab. - Bryan Person - Facebook Page for Trust Agents, the book by Chris Brogan and Julien Smith. The co-authors add in content--videos, photos, questions for their fans--a few times a week. - Bryan Person - Howard Greenstein compares Facebook groups and Facebook Pages, and explains why you might want to create one over the other. - Bryan Person - 5 Facebook Fan Page case studies - Sonny Gill - Facebook Page includes an "IHOP" action tab with recommended steps for fans. - Bryan Person
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