I love FriendFeed but the fact that Bing and Google are making deals with Twitter and FriendFeed is yet another nail in why news makers will NOT support FriendFeed no matter how much we evangelize it. This is why if I were Paul Buchheit I'd spend every waking moment getting FriendFeed's feature set into Facebook as soon as possible.
A question: Does FriendFeed have to compete anymore? Is there any shame in coming 3rd or 4th? I know people who shoot with Fuji and Sony cameras, not because they are the best, but because they like it and it works for them.
- Johnny Worthington
But Robert - news makers have never supported Friendfeed--
- TechFuga
Good point. They don't bother since Fb owns Friendfeed. Remember, FF indirectly already has a deal with Bing becuase Fb has a deal with Bing. And FF is now indirectly owned by micrososft ( thier 15% stake in Fb, remember). I wouldn't worry so much.
- Roberto Bonini
FriendFeed won't win... but there is no reason it should not even run the race.
- Johnny Worthington
TechFuga: not true. I supported FriendFeed and I'm noticing a ton of action over on Twitter that, well, simply isn't happening here. http://twitter.com/scoblei... is just a taste.
- Robert Scoble
Roberto, I was going to make that point also. FF is no longer an independent site battling for market share. They are a technology proving ground for FB with a vibrant community. ;)
- Travis Koger
I finally removed the FriendFeed desktop notifier from my computer. It no longer updates in real time. It's a shame because it used to send me a notification within seconds of someone publishing on twitter or friendfeed - something that the desktop twitter clients couldn't even do because of Twitter API.
- joebrooks
Johnny: the problem is that FriendFeed is going to be just a niche player. It's certainly not the dream community I once dreamed of. Not saying it won't be fun, but already the home page isn't the kind of things I care about.
- Robert Scoble
And, Johnny, that realization is quite different than how I approached FriendFeed five months ago where I was demoing it to tech audiences around the world.
- Robert Scoble
Do you not think friendfeed still wins for easy conversations though? You still couldn't have done this on twitter. I hate trying to talk to people on Twitter.
- Simon Wicks
We are totally going to be niche... and I'm comfortable with that now. The coming issue which not many people talk about is the fact that all my social groups don't mix. I have 2 or 3 sets of friends, with different social norms and contexts. I like being in a few different places. Lumping them all on one service, and feeding them the different slices, is just to much trouble to manage for me.
- Johnny Worthington
Err, Robert. You just said "I once dreamed of". Sure everyone wanted FF to succeed, but not everyone saw it becoming the next facebook, myspace or twitter (or even google). Where FF is now does not detract from its awesomeness, does not give us an excuse to ignore it and it continues to be, for many of us, the social platform of the future. Your dreams arn't everyone elses' dreams.
- Roberto Bonini
Just a quick look at some of my lists and I notice that twitter in generally is about 6 minutes late, and sometimes are published out of order. Is that just my computer, or the same for everyone else? Being 6 minutes late to the conversation is not helpful.
- joebrooks
No, but I saw it as being more important than it is today, which if you are truthful, is not all that important. And, sorry, it's not the social platform of the future. It might be the best feature set of today, but remember Pownce? It had more features than Twitter and was a niche player like FriendFeed is. What happened to it?
- Robert Scoble
@Johnny, what if something like FB allowed you to categorize all your contacts into social groups... not just grouping them as you can now, but properly categorizing them and then determining which parts of your news feed is available to which category etc. I see the problem with FB contacts is that it is mostly the people you are really close to, which also dictates the type of...
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- Travis Koger
I don't think you're wrong... Owing to the overall decline in numbers and use, what you have been doing (and are doing now) is, in effect preaching to the choir. What I don't understand is why your so intent on telling them they are all going to hell.
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
J. Abdul: it's part of my own grieving process. It's also just my personality. I invested a LOT of my career into FriendFeed and now I realize that it just isn't going to be what I was thinking it would be.
- Robert Scoble
@Robert I appreciate that, and like a lot of other people I was right there with you... But at this point you are rubbing salt in the wound.
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
Robert, I would say you invested your time into the idea of what FriendFeed could be, and that gave the idea a far amount of weight. When people look back at history and speak of the move to a real time web, your name will feature amongst the players.
- Johnny Worthington
And for what its worth you and your brother are the reason I, and a lot of other people are here, so, some of this (this turn the whole thing is taking) is hard to watch.
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
Wrong choce of words there Robert. I meant, "platform" as in something you build on. This is a feature set to build upon in future social networks.
- Roberto Bonini
@Robert is FF becoming another Second Life: still alive but only for a few aficionados? FF is the tail of a long tail? :)
- Roldano aka Rotfl
@Robert I feel your pain Robert - how many of us in the industry have had that feeling about some technology or company we actually worked for years on. But who knows what Fb will do with FF yet - none of us can see the future in technology. Something game changing comes along and bang, an existin technoloy becomes useful aain
- Arthur Coleman
Simon: for now, yes, it does win at conversations. That's one thing I will keep using it for. But that's like a sub feature of these things and it's only a matter of time before Twitter does comments. Facebook already has comments that work pretty well (albeit not as well as FriendFeed).
- Robert Scoble
@Robert All that being said, I don't blame you one bit for needing to get it out of your system. Its just hard to watch.
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
J. Abdul-Qahhar: yeah, but part of my brand is to tell the truth and not necessarily what you want to hear. I got a TON of shit from people on Twitter telling me to shut up about FriendFeed already. My brand is about what's next, not what is, and, I also live in public. Which means I'm a butthead sometimes and that's also part of my brand. :-)
- Robert Scoble
BTW. Robert, thanks. You made me write that letter :)
- Johnny Worthington
Roldano: if FriendFeed turns into Second Life (which is doing quite well, albeit without the hype) that would be very cool and probably the best possible outcome at this moment.
- Robert Scoble
Johnny: that's why I keep telling you the way I see it. It might not be comfortable, but telling the truth ALWAYS builds stronger communities. Your letter demonstrates why.
- Robert Scoble
IF bret and paul are to be belived, FF is not being orphaned by Facebook. There are new servers in the works, some work has been done to the code etc. i doubt money would be spend on new servers if FF was being left to die. I'm sticking around till we see what paul was hinting at.
- Roberto Bonini
Roberto, saying new servers in FB world is just moving the FF code to a FB server. I don't think any money has been spent, just space/cpu provisioned on an already massive farm.
- Travis Koger
Still - its an investment in FF's continued life. And i doubt they would do that, much less tell us about it, unless they were comitted to FF.
- Roberto Bonini
FriendFeed can't die! Things are so easy to put into FF (Bookmarklet) that newsmakers don't have to make a huge effort to "support" it.
- Nathan Snyder
Roberto: Travis is correct. New servers are just Paul's way of saying that everything is moving over to Facebook's datacenter. I'm sure they got some new toys, though, and that will help speed a little bit (FriendFeed is a LOT slower lately than it was a year ago) but my friends at Facebook say that not much, if any, engineering time is being dedicated to FriendFeed specifically. But I've said enough about that part and can't wait to see what Paul shows me soon.
- Robert Scoble
would be good to organize persuasive reasons for FB to nurture development of FriendFeed in the pure form we enjoy today. Thinking there may be some $$ value just in terms of PR - both internal and external. What else beyond that? What might motivate Facebook to actively support more open-source development of the FriendFeed platform? Could it make good return on that investment as a monstrously successful good vibe buzz machine - "the next Mozilla project"?
- Dan Freeman
Dan: open source community projects haven't seemed to go very far. Look at identi.ca.
- Robert Scoble
true more often than not - some do - but no need get sidetracked debating open-source! The Big Question to brainstorm is: what pitch can Paul polish to persuade FB to sincerely support continued growth of standalsone "pure" FF project
- Dan Freeman
Dan: the deeper problem for Paul is, where can he make the biggest impact on the world? Working on FriendFeed or working on Facebook? If I were him I would be 100% working on Facebook.
- Robert Scoble
FF can compete if news orgs can realize the benefits. Best way to do that is to see a competitor utilizing FF tools, gaining traffic, or doing something that makes others say "I want that."
- TheIndustryStandard
Another question for Paul: how can FF community help (even with the small but significant detail work - and bouncing spammers) ... what else?
- Dan Freeman
Robert, I agree, I can see a time when Facebook will be the equivalent of the telephone directory (white pages etc). Facebook is definitely where a difference can be made, especially with Paul's openness agenda.
- Travis Koger
"I would be 100% working on Facebook" - agree 100% - and Paul definitely has his work cut out for him there. Huge.
- Dan Freeman
Why is FaceBook so hard to like, it's laborious, filled with the wrong applications (Games like FARM, Friggin MAFIA) and is not simple in ease of use terms. I use it but find I spend too much time trying to figure where things are than actually get something done. I must have a learning disability I guess.
- Owen Greaves
Facebook is a nightmare when it comes usability. Looks like it was designed by a pack of monkeys with ADHD.
- Moved to Facebook
from fftogo
Yeah, college students. (p.s. I am one (a college student, not FB dev))
- Kevin L
I don't mind the 'design' of Facebook, it is relatively clean, however the UX is where it is let down.
- Travis Koger
Not sure I agree with you assessment. FF is a different animanl and integrating with FB is not something I need or want.
- Poka Yoke
from twhirl
IMO, fb needs to integrate ff feature set and provide much more fine grained control over privacy. I want to be able to have public, less public and private information. I want to be able to control who gets what information. For instance, if I share a funny link it's fine for anyone to get it including google/bing, but if I'm sharing my location info I might only want my family to be able to see that.
- John
News makers using twitter kills the news makers. I don't think friendfeed was ever about Newsmakers looking for a platform.
- Cjay
Cjay: every single newsmaker I know came here looking for it to be a new platform that would take Twitter on. RWW even used it to plan out their editorial in a private group here. When I choose a new platform I'm definitely looking to use it as a platform for newsmakers to discuss things. I saw FriendFeed as being a new kind of talk radio. Actually, what has captured everyone's interest...
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- Robert Scoble
The news makers platform is pure RSS. Twitter and friendfeed feels like the old belt clip pager from the 80's, a quick message here and there, but no way in hell that your going to convey any detail about any news using a platform like friendfeed or twitter.
- Cjay
RSS channels are the "WAVE" of the future. Everybody has a channel, Google wave is a small ripple in a big pond..Google should have never told anybody about it until it was finished. Companies have been using this idea anyway on internal Lan/vpn for years... and all of a sudden Google comes out with wave, like its some holy grail. Change Facebook to Friendbook and call it done.
- Cjay
I'll point out that today, FF features are in FB. The news stream is live (if you want it) I want the Status stream live, since I don't want apps in my stream and have made the status stream my default. FB is too cluttered, and the ads are pointless and annoying. I find FF far superior in terms of design, as I do Twitter, but I understand that ads are required for most websites to survive. I just wish that they would be nicer and less obtrusive (and that Friends would stop sending me Mafia Wars Requests)
- Nathan Snyder
"Google Sync supports Push for Gmail, meaning that you can get your messages immediately, if not sooner (as my dad is fond of saying)."
- sebastian☆rocket brother
sormamak ayıp değil ya. push email ne demek??? nedir bu push olayı?
- HasanCivelek
Size mail geldiğinde (ya da push destekli uygulamalarda herhangi bir bilgi geldiğinde) haber vermesi. Programlar arka planda çalışmadan bu bilgiyi size ulaştırır.
- Hayati Şentürk
I don't care much for push notifications, I can wait 15 minutes for the iPhone to fetch/push. But Calendar and Contacts syncing is awesome, I couldn't do that before.
- Willem (@wim66) ☠
Fetching wastes battery though. Push is a much better system overall.
- sebastian☆rocket brother
@hayati teşekkürler :) bugun onca yıldan sonra PS'de iki trik öğrendim. hala iş var :)))
- HasanCivelek
Unfortunately you can only sync 1 gmail account using Google Sync. I wonder if Google will ever support push imap..
- sebastian☆rocket brother
There are a lot of competing apps out now for this. Which is the best?
- Michael Fidler
Google's implementation relies upon Exchange - can we use only one Exchange account per iPhone?
- Bill Sodeman
@billso Yes, unfortunately only one Exchange account. That's totally sucks, 'cause I kinda need two-some.
- Кто это тут у нас
@sebastian☆rocket brother "Fetching wastes battery though" Really? More than PUSH? Messages have to be pushed to a process, a process that is running *all* the time.
- Paul Grav
Playing devil’s advocate, Apple *did* announce at its OS 3.0 event in March that file-sharing/P2P apps would be flat-out denied, just like porn apps and a couple of other categories. I’m not saying it’s ok, I’m just saying this is absolutely not surprising in any way.
- David Chartier
But this is not actually a P2P app. It's a remote app for a P2P app. So while I can understand what you mean David, Apple still has (IMO) to be more open. I use BitTorrent to download podcasts, which is perfectly legal and does not void copyright. So this is not an 'illegal' thing.
- Michel
Speaking of Mythbusters, why aren't new shows coming out?
- Michel
@Michel: I think it's on summer hiatus. IIRC, Grant Imahara tweeted that new shows aren't starting back up again until October!
- Cheryl Jones
Kari Byron is also having a baby :) Probably don't want to do the shows without her for now.
- CannonGod
Ah. That is an excellent point. I guess the show would be totally different. Plus it also means that they had time for longer myths to work on.
- Michel
from iPhone
This was a brochure for college students back in 1992 that advertised the Mac IIci and one of the first PowerBooks. Yes, I used to be an Apple shill! :-)
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
WOW! That's hilarious! What a cool thing to have.
- James Hull
Ah. 1992. I would love to go back in time to 1992 with a Macbook Pro or something, and show you some tech from the future and then take it off you and bugger off back to the future.
- Mark
You were a girl in 1992? Oh wait - you mean you were the guy on the LEFT! :) :)
- Lee Drake
You never know what the future will bring...
- Seth Eagelfeld
Woz and I talked later about the Mac IIcx's. They were so easy to upgrade. I miss that era of computers.
- Robert Scoble
from iPhone
I remember attending Apple's IIci announcement at the Universal Ampitheater in October 1990? Later in the day I met with Guy Kawasaki and discussed his ideas for a board game. I ordered a IIci on the developer's discount at just over $4600. I still have it and the copy of the check I used to pay for it.
- Mike Shulman
Like the ad. I was testing FF email feature yesterday. Did you send from your phone or desktop?
- Nakeva Corothers
Interesting how Apple has always worked so hard going after the college/university student market, especially in the context of the way they dominate sales of computers over the $1000 mark now. It's not only targeting young minds, it's also targeting young minds that are disproportionately likely to be wealthier than average in their careers and invest in themselves.
- Jed White
This is great. I love the come-hither pose.
- Mike Doeff
from iPhone
One of the best weddings I have ever seen. Lol. Awesome.
- Michel
Loved this! Have a feeling its going to go viral too haha.
- Mike
Do they have the rights for the song? I hope, so it can get viral and not be deleted by some lawyer with no sense of humour or by the automatic copyright infringement detection system enforced by Youtube on automatic demand by record companies.
- Charbax
Mac rumors seems to be keeping up the best so far
- Michael
A PR was just sent out from Apple that says Snow Leopard will be available in September and for $29.
- Shane Harwood
It's weird when we're critical of a company frequently improving their products without a large increase in price. Seems backwards, but that's what we want.
- Jonathan Langdale
29$ thats sweet, just got 10.5 and was planning on skipping snow
- detorn
3.0 might be with the new hardware and that still needs FCC approval.
- Michel
Ben, I'll pay you $5 if they release it today. Not going to happen. They'll wait till the new iPhone comes out.
- Ryan
Find My iPhone should be available as a one-off paid service rather than just part of MobileMe. If I really lose my phone I might be prepared to pay a small fee to wipe it remotely.
- bobrudge
I thought video guy was trying to get his medication :D
- David Wright
from twhirl
KShep, I've had the 3.0 beta and watching the Pre unbox almost made me cry. Why isn't Apple on the ball like that?
- iluvgimp
#Michel the new iPhone may already have approval. There's a misconception that you have to wait to announce to keep it secret.
- Ryan
@bobrudge I totally agree. I'm not paying $129 for it every year just for that feature. Hell, its worth the price of a new phone :P
- Michel
But how many times have they kept it a secret?
- Michel
I'm thinking Doom, in real-life for the turn-by-turn. :-)
- Jesse Stay
there is a great Leo quote for the keynote, "I was hoping there would be news by now."
- detorn
Even the video camera & editing isn't going to bring this back... no tethering or MMS support from AT&T for "awhile" at least really sinks this ship.
- iluvgimp
I agree Ken - I'm starting to dose --- I wish Jonathan -- an Apple Tablet PC would be cool
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Apple tablet is not happening now. Not enough rumors. I say.
- Michel
Michael - I hope you're wrong. I want the Apple tablet more than a new iPhone. :(
- Johnny
question, isn't using an apple product for medical purposes against the apple TOS?
- detorn
This is becoming a waste of time... will they just get on with it.
- Bas Heetebrij
This is going to be huge to tap into the healthcare application market
- Jonathan Langdale
This is either a great stall -- or they have nothing to announce that is new
- LPH™ and his dog P™
It's funny because before the uStream guy fixed the audio, all I could say on Twitter was: "Oh! Something cool just happened. Dunno what though..."
- Michel
Why are they replaying the March 3.0 Preview event video?
- Ken Sheppardson
Well, It is a developers conference - rumors be damned
- PXLated
You know, you guys were nagging Apple like this last year. You wanted 3G, you wanted GPS bla bla. Now you're poo-pooing GPS and saying that there is zero coverage of 3G in the US. The beauty of the iPhone is the lack of a continual need for hardware updates. The functionality is not tied to the phone. Every version of the phone has the same functionality, only with different specs
- Jackson Pollock
PXL, but they've said all of this already
- detorn
there isn't a big history of "one more thing" at WWDC. And never yet without Steve
- Jackson Pollock
yeah... iphone is not for reading iphone... is there something else coming?
- Bas Heetebrij
As a student. I would love the textbook thing. It's great for me, as a student. Who has his iPhone in class most of the time (For educational purposes!)
- Michel
Is this just what we should start to expect from post-Jobsian Apple?
- Ken Sheppardson
You don't get it if you want a new phone. The iphone itself is merely a way to communicate and interact with the iphone OS. The whole point of the iPhone design is that it's as little hardware design as possible.
- Jackson Pollock
We've lost the panel.. talking about Tom-Tom :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Where is the iTouch news... where is the background processing...
- Jonathan Langdale
I don't know about you guys but I would rather hear the audio feed mostly, not the commentary
- Robb McMahan
@Michael Mooney: That's the iPod Touch. @Jon Please dont call it the iTouch.
- Michel
doesn't navigation need background processes?
- Bas Heetebrij
Ah... Tom-Tom for iPhone. Reminds me... I used to run Tom Tom on my Treo 755p. I wonder if Pre will have it...
- Ken Sheppardson
I've been waiting on the turn by turn since this thing came out! sweet!
- Bryan Brooks
C'mon guys, would you guys PLEASE hush and let us hear the official feed! Comment after it's over like they would on CNN.
- Robb McMahan
background processing is such a heap of mess. let's not forget that the primary market for this phone is mere mortals who don't know about memory and process load and everything else. They'll avoid it if they can
- Jackson Pollock
@Robb I want to hear the commentary from the panel one what's going on - otherwise I'd just watch the stream. I want opinions on what's going on.
- bobrudge
So what's with the hardware for TomTom? What is it actually used for?
- Michel
@Robb first comment on this tread has the link
- detorn
I'm wondering if BestBuy will let me return the MacBook Pro 15" I bought 3 weeks ago and get one of the new ones. Did they say when they would be available?
- Jesse Stay
If Jobs died tomorrow, the company wouldn't change much at all. It's the most fine-oiled machine in the technology industry. Jobs has spent the last 12 years filling the board and the senior positions with people of his own liking. Ive, Forstall, Serlet, Cook, they're all handpicked by Jobs and have been doing their job for the last 10 years.
- Jackson Pollock
Me too Lindsay. Original iPhone lacked too many features *I* needed. New version looks much better
- David Wright
from twhirl
new macs today, bestbuy or apple should let you exchange within 30 days
- detorn
Jackson: This event would indicate otherwise.
- Ken Sheppardson
This event is pretty identical to last year's
- Jackson Pollock
I'm really happy with my 2007 MBP. Seriously, for me, it's brand new.
- Michel
I have iTouch and I LOVE using Skype and Fringe. I don't like paying cell fees. I only want GPS in iTouch
- Jonathan Langdale
It's a developer conference. For software developers. They're not engineers and industrial designers, they're computer scientists who are looking to make money from developing their applications on this platform
- Jackson Pollock
I almost bought the new MBP when they first came about, but I got another 15 MBP prev gen for FW800
- Jonathan Langdale
Apple is not attending Macworld any longer, they're not really doing press conferences to release products anymore, they're changing how they do things, not what they do.
- Jackson Pollock
Apparently the market doesn't realize this is a "developer conference"
- Ken Sheppardson
Lol. Wave iPhone over stuff to buy. Look at that money go!
- Michel
Apple shares, up nearly 70% in 2009, have slid during the presentation, recently trading at $140.94, down 3.8% on the day. -- WSJ
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Apple stock has been down since market open, not because of today's announcements.
- Pete Finlay
Oops, forgot it is an Apple feed... My "touch" is an htc Touch Pro :red:
- David Wright
from twhirl
The stock has barely moved during the keynote.
- Pete Finlay
@ Michael/Thobias/Adam They've been having some power issues today. Outages and such.
- Justin
The stock always drops during the keynotes anyway and then rises dramatically after wards.
- Michel
Is there going to be a new API to search for Gillmore Gang videos/drama?
- Jonathan Langdale
Ken: the fanboys who put hope in every little detail they can find. The market is based on salesfigures and quarterly results. If there is no iPhone announcement today, it'll come later and the stock will stay the same.
- Jackson Pollock
So how do you actually start the car on Zipcar? Can it be done through the iPhone?
- Michel
think they implied the key was in the car
- detorn
Michel I believe he said you just push a key icon and it starts
- Jesse Stay
ZipCar website crashed.... not ready for the WWDC response.
- Jerry Schuman
Hah... Leo's view of the stream clips off the "Sponsored by DylanCombs.tv" from the top of the image
- Ken Sheppardson
This is not an entertainment event. It is a public press conference. As much as you would like it to be, Apple does not. They don't broadcast it on the web, they don't do them as often as they used to, they're not even done by Steve Jobs any longer.
- Jackson Pollock
Oh, you unlock it via the app, but I don't see why they couldn't enable you to start it from the app as well
- Jesse Stay
Does this raise security issues? (the Zipcar app). Stealing can become a lot easier.
- Michel
Sure would be nice if Leo could get twit.am back up. I can't listen via my computer (I'm at work and my headphones won't reach to the computer).
- Adam Jenkins
Jaskson: You're making excuses. The tech community is watching this with expectations.
- Ken Sheppardson
Creating an app for your own car wouldn't be that difficult - you'd just need a bluetooth kit the iphone can talk to
- Jesse Stay
And since the jailbreak can insert daemons to change the functionality of apps, it might cause a lot of issues.
- Michel
Perhaps it's finally time for the genius in the room, Ive
- Jackson Pollock
LOL at Line6 accessory for iPhone. I mean, this is solution-without-a-problem territory. If you have an electric guitar, you can handle another small piece of gear.
- G. Sigh
I don't see them revamping the design that much. Ive is perfecting it still
- Jackson Pollock
2.1x faster to launch Messages, 2.4x to load SimCity, 3.6x faster to load an Excel attachment, 2.9x faster to load a large website. - MacRumors
- Michel
If they want me to upgrade from my iPhone 3G I hope they've got more than some speed bumps (not important to me in a phone) and camera features and spec I had on my Sony 4 years ago.
- bobrudge
can we have skype video chat on iphone now?
- Alfredo
Yep, I totally missed the actual announcement when TWiT Live/BitGrav refreshed on me automatically. That sucks. Anyway, can you make phone calls on the new phone?
- WazNeeni
there's a lot of geek love in that room :)
- zephyrlily
Leo doesn't think Tablet it a big market? wow.. convergence between cell phone and computers?
- Johnny
Will I be able to upgrade from the 3G? If not, I'm okay with that.
- Ryan
apple announces they now OWN the phone market - stock moves -2.84
- michael sean wright
Leo didn't think the Intel switch was a good move, Leo didn't have any confidence in the iPhone between launch and release, bla bla bla
- Jackson Pollock
$99 is a great price, I'm just not so keen on having to shell out $1,000 a year on a phone plan.
- Eoghann Irving
Ouch! Entry level 13" MBP $1595 in Germany :(
- David Wright
from twhirl
But 17" down to "only" $3192 from $3500 earlier today
- David Wright
from twhirl
you've had a 13.3'' tho, it's called the Macbook or Macbook Air
- Jackson Pollock
I still don't understand how you buy an iPhone on 17th with a contract or not.
- Jonathan Langdale
Interestingly the small print for the phone prices reads "existing AT&T customers who want to upgrade from another phone or replace an iPhone 3G, the price with a new two-year agreement is $499 (8GB), $599 (16GB), or $699 (32GB)."
- Steve Brady
i wonder when the uk site will get updated, O2 (the carrier) and apples site still normal for me
- Charles Greig
So *upgrading* (which usually means at the 18 month point??) is 200 more??
- Steve Brady
No, I mean what does "cheap" mean? $9/mo? $19?
- Ken Sheppardson
i think (not sure) $79 a month is the lowest
- detorn
it's like $400 bucks with 2 year contract, and $100 a month for a plan with unlimited data here
- Jackson Pollock
If I'm honest, I think the Pre has problems in competing on features. I think the N97 from Nokia is closest and better in some aspects.
- Bas Heetebrij
Ok, its on the uk apple site now but no prices that i can see :(
- Charles Greig
Leo, you could take questions/comments from the chats in lieu of calls...
- Denise Howell
Why would AT&T charge more for upgrading from iPhone 3G?
- Tom Landini
It has to be the N97 from Nokia. It has a 5mp camera and It is able to record 16:9 video
- Kashif Khan
AT&T are nuts about the upgrading... taking me forever to get the subsidy
- detorn
yeah, $99 is not really the actual price is it. I mean, the "$199" iPhone was close to 600EUR if you took the $2/month for 2 year contract with no calls/texts/data plan. If you take any other contract (here in Finland, it's capped at 100MB/month regardless of plan), you end up paying a lot more.
- Andy Patel
Upgrade pricing absolutely stinks.. $499 for existing iPhone 3G customers for the 32 gig phone. How much more can AT&T alienate existing customers? I also love how they make it sound liek they're doing me a favor 'because you're a valued customer'
- Lon Seidman
So no word about iTouch, this sucks for people that don't want a month plan.
- Jonathan Langdale
I'm looking at the new macbook pro prices and the 17" is now $2499. I think that is a lower new price.
- Pete Finlay
iPod Touch news is usually announced in September so it's ready for the holidays.
- Mister IQ
Leo, you must do a MacBreak Weekly with Andy!
- Pete Finlay
rogers hasnt either, but after what happened with iphone 3g last year, i expect 3 year contract and a lackluster expensive plan.
- mark pompeo
the interesting thing about the voice commands, i suggested that to apple over a year ago though the contact us section, altough i suggest this for the ipod specifically. i expect just a coincidence. they had to add that, almost every phone has voice commands
- mark pompeo
I was really hoping for background apps, and front facing video. Still, seeing all the other stuff makes this a must have device. I am just worried about getting shafted by AT&T in my attempt to get upgraded.
- Darrell Bell
from twhirl
Sorry Leo, it was a good show...although lost in the ethers...
- Bill Frater
thanks for the coverage though leo, we salute you for your efforts
- mark pompeo
Yep, great coverage Leo. You have a lot to answer for... I'd refused to Web 2.0, then I found TWiT, now I'm on Twitter, FB and FF, in one weekend! :D
- David Wright
from twhirl
I'm catching up on TWiT network, must be over 60 hours in the last couple of weeks! NOTE: Don't listen to 8 hours of Security Now back to back! Ended up dreaming I was decrypting files, manually in my sleep! :D
- David Wright
from twhirl
There is just something soothing about Leo's voice and the TWiT gang are usually hilarious
- David Wright
from twhirl
did we hear anything about a2dp for the 3G? for the 3GS?
- Alan Kroeper
alan, i wasn't watching too closely, but i don't see anything in this chat mentioning it - however there's lots of bluetooth stuff in the 3.0sdk so it might be in there... there's more news to come over the next couple days
- Chris Heath
“Palm Pre will be available nationwide on June 6 in Sprint stores, Best Buy, Radio Shack, select Wal-Mart stores and online at Sprint.com for $199.99 with a two-year service agreement and after a $100 mail-in rebate.”
- Leo Laporte
"if you’re not really sure what all the fuss is about, I’ve got one word to say: multitasking." - yeah, right, multitasking for WebApps, glorified AJAX objects, which is all Pré is capable of running at the moment.
- ianf ⌘
ianf: Can you give an example of something you'd like it to run that it can't?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, no, in fact I'm all in favor of WebApps, especially now the HTML5 is around the corner with local storage etc., only wanted to underline the apparent inflation of the term "multitasking," which used to imply something wholly different where native-platform objects were concerned. I am sure Pré is capable of all that, and, with its own SDK, will in due time be able to keep pace with...
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- ianf ⌘
No, not yet, if ever; merely some press reports. Decided to wait until Pré (a) migrates from vaporware to realware; (b) survives the first few months. Perhaps then. Life's too short and all that.
- ianf ⌘
Just checking to be sure all your knowledge isn't derived from Apple fanboys :)
- jcunwired
Did I pass? Was there anything incorrect in my pre-Pré statements so far, or are you just glad to talk to me?
- ianf ⌘
I'd take exception to "glorified AJAX objects, which is all Pré is capable of running at the moment", and will back it up when I have time to cup/paste from the book I linked to.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, my "glorified AJAX objects" is, of course, emo shorthand, which as we all know IS the new English, so there! <http://friendfeed.com/bitchfe...>
- ianf ⌘
What's the incentive to get the Pre over the iPhone if the phone, and the plan (from Sprint) are the same price as the iPhone and plan from AT&T? Unless your just an Apple/AT&T hater (well I understand hating on AT&T) why wouldn't you just go with a proven platform? I just think Palm is being extremely cocky here with their pricing. I predict fail!! My last hope is Android. C'mon people, make a cheaper phone with a cheaper plan.
- David
David, Sprint's Simply Everything plan is $99 a month, and includes services that AT&T doesn't offer (Sprint TV, GPS navigation, others). I believe for a similar plan from AT&T you're spending $30 more a month without additional services. Pre multitasks, has physical keyboard, Synergy and removable battery - and it's not on AT&T :)
- jcunwired
jcunwired....Yes, but it's still 99$ a month. Not everyone needs to be Robert Scoble here. Give me an option without GPS and Sprint TV (who cares) and whatever other junk I don't need and charge me $30 a month for email/web.
- David
And don't even get me started on text messaging. That should be free on any data plan!
- David
You don't necessarily need Simply Everything... I believe the least expensive plan with the Pre is the $69 Everything Data plan, which is unlimited data & SMS, GPS nav, Sprint TV, etc... same as Simply Everything... but with 450 minutes + 45¢/min overage. Sure, cell phone plans should be cheaper.... but that's not a Pre vs. iPhone issue
- Ken Sheppardson
True Ken, I should have pointed that out. One other selling point for Sprint, after 7PM its all free calling, and any calls to another Sprint phone are free. No more dumb assed rollover minutes, yippee!!
- jcunwired
Either that is a really smart more or a really dumb one (June 6th). It depends if people are willing to wait for WWDC or not for the new iPhone.
- Michel
I thought for the longest time it was really dumb, but I'm now thinking that Palm is going to get a lot of free press - for the foreseeable future anything written about the iPhone will also include the Pre. Damn ballsy of them I say.
- jcunwired
jc: bingo. Every time somebody says "Pre" and "iPhone" in the same breath, Palm wins.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, your absolutley right. I was just venting:) My original point was (although I didn't make it very well) Palm needs to hit this one out of the park to stay alive according to some people. What better selling point could there be (to compete with other smart phones) than a lower price? It just suprises me that thier price isn't any cheaper than the competition. All things concidered, even with the few dodads that the pre has over the iPhone, I don't think Apple has anything to worry about.
- David
David: One of the obstacles to a lower price is a pesky little supply vs. demand issue... I suspect that in the first few months Palm isn't going to have any trouble at all selling as many units as they can make at the proposed price. If you can sell everything you make at $199 net, why price it at $99. Given Palm's history, I think they're probably much more likely to drop prices as manufacturing ramps up than those other guys with a fruit for a logo.
- Ken Sheppardson
David, Apple hasn't got much to be worried about because they by definition aren't going to dominate the market, only to dominate the most profitable high-level segment of it (which by necessity of numbers never will be very large in absolute figures). As for Palm Pré competing on price - you couldn't be more wrong there. Obviously, they intend to compete on some unique mix of...
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- ianf ⌘
Weighing out features, there's no reason the Pre shouldn't be priced equally with the iPhone. At least on paper the Pre surpasses in every area except internal memory at the device level, and the App store as a concept. Palm will do just fine.
- jcunwired
"At least on paper," noted. This eerily equivalent of the piss matches we used to have over the bus- and cpu-clock speeds of yesteryear, which OF COURSE had major impact on what people ended up buying. Personally I wish Palm all the success, because that would then mean Apple's forced to take notice of the rest of us (I may sound like Apple fanboy at times, but am anything but. I only hate it less than that Windoze gift from Satan to Mankind).
- ianf ⌘
No piss match here, just reality. Your comments have been so absolutely positive, how could we EVER think you were a fanboy? </sarcasm> :)
- jcunwired
Perhaps if you could supply me with few templates of to-you-not-offending/ "unfanboyish" comments, I might have a clearer view of what is it that you wish I should emit. Then the rest would be just a matter for negotiation over reimbursement level, channels, etc.
- ianf ⌘
Ken, "If you can sell everything you make at $199 net, why price it at $99." Forgive my ignorance, but if you can sell phones at $199 (don't forget the stupid rebate) couldn't you sell more of them at $99? Besides, it's not the phone price I have a problem with, It's the plan price. I would gladly pay $300 for a Pre if I could get the plan at $50. I guess I'm not coming from the same...
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- David
David: I think for the first few months Palm we be able to sell Pres as fast as they can make them for $199. You can't sell more than you can make. :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Just read that Best Buy will be applying the rebate for you. $199 at Best Buy.
- Chris Gardner
Chris....Best buy gets it!! That's going to make a lot of people happy.
- David
If a phone costs $171 to make, it doesn't make a lot of sense to sell it for $99. David - you hit the nail on the head, you WANT one. Now the task is to find the carriers with the best coverage in your area and compare plan prices. My guess is that Sprint will be the most competitive. I'm not nuts about paying $75 a month (after taxes) either, but with the features realized in...
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- jcunwired
Can you watch Hulu on the Pre? If I could replace my Cable bill by using a smart phone/laptop for TV, then I can justify a $99 monthly bill!! Or!!! (the wheels are a turnin') maybe I'll just buy a friend a slingbox for their birthday and sponge cable off them!!!
- David
Hulu will be available once Flash comes to WebOS, which was announced for sometime later this year (though it may be a surprise at launch).. Same for slingplayer - supposedly an app will become available. Edit: dunno what its all about, but Sprint TV comes with their data plans.
- jcunwired
When you view a smartphone as a computing platform, what you get in that little package really isn't bad for the $
- jcunwired
"then there's the shortage of handsets" -- That was my point. If there's a "shortage", one could say they're actually charging too little.
- Ken Sheppardson
Oh Ken!!! Don't say that!!! :) Do you think the shortage is legit, or is it by design?
- David
I'm quite confident Palm is and will be making as many as they can, as fast as they can. Whether that's sufficient to meet the demand in June and how the tech press will respond to inventory issues--if there are any--is yet to be seen, but I'm pretty sure that if Palm sells through their inventory they'll be very, very happy.
- Ken Sheppardson
When Apple ran out of supply, we got "Isn't that amazing, look how popular this is!". When Palm runs out it will be "Palm you suck!" :-))
- jcunwired
"If you slide your feet across this doormat, it will open your door, but only after you enter a four-digit code. OK, I lied. It won't—but that's what it does in my fantasies, ok?"
- David Foucher
from Bookmarklet
The Twit Conversations feed hasn't been updated in nearly a week... Last thing posted was MacBreak Weekly 138: All Things Conditioned. Is it just me or...?
- Michel
Public holiday here in Australia. FINALLY get to watch TWiT Live stream :D
- Johnny Worthington
is it because advertising is more profitable on network television?
- Phil Maxwell
Looking at Hulu.com now. It appears you still have to go through the ABC.com player in order to view ABC content.
- Marques Stewart
I know this is an old gripe but I would at least like to watch Hulu. Not only is it unavailable, but I pay $US80 a month for 20GB UP and DOWN.
- Johnny Worthington
a lot of these sites are blocked in Canada..anyone know a Canadian friendly site?
- Jeff Gignac
I use boxee for what it is. I have a 1tb my book with music and videos and I also love hulu and rev3. Now if they can get live feeds in there it would be the ultimate media center.
- ZOD
@Johnny I feel for you...20GB is nothing
- Phil Maxwell
I would love to see bbc shows on the net but im in america..seems that no old media company in any country doesnt get it...
- Samuel Lewis
from twhirl
Oh no, they get it, they just can't make any coin from it. These guys aren't dumb, just have staff to pay.
- Johnny Worthington
Leo, I read (listened) to Earth Abides as you suggested... I start theropy next week. You wrecked my outlook on life!
- Daniel Conderman
I also wish we could get bbc and itv content over here
- Brian Tiede
WoT is going to be 14 books, "book" 12 is being split in 3 by the guy who picked it up after RJ died.
- Patrick Sullivan
Hey guys, just tuned in, what time did they start recording this week, we far in?
- Daniel Rowley
I think Twitter's still cool. I just am sick of jumping from social network to social network every 3 weeks, let's just stick with one.
- Josh Windisch
is Wheel of Time going to make me hate humanity like Earth Abides?!?!?!?!
- Daniel Conderman
I think that Apple making Macs dependent on their own custom chips could backfire on them.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
Casper: oh yeah good point i didn't think of army.twit.tv! i am not sure what he's using for that.
- Josh Windisch
It's probably for their portable hardware, because I'm sure they don't want to deal with the hell that is forcing custom hardware dependencies.
- Chris, Taskerrific Guy
i sure hope it's not the beginning of the end for desktop systems, i sure like using desktops a lot more than friggin phones.
- Josh Windisch
What time did they start recording this week?
- Daniel Rowley
I am in Winnipeg.. two main providers Shaw and MTS here thats it
- Greg
what about the mere fact that people enjoy using this form factor (a desktop, or laptop computer) to do all these things though? i can't imagine a world of just phones & small screens like that. Sounds like technology might allow for that but i don't know if everyone would want it.
- Josh Windisch
I thought the future is 7 seconds from now?
- Devon Blugh
I am going to get the Dell touch screen for the living room so i can surf/touch and use my own internal web based home management system instead of the laptop i am using now with keyboard/mouse
- Jeff Gignac
Hey Leo! Loved your chat about SSD the other day. Has anyone filled a Drobo or Drobo Pro with SSD yet? How cool would that be? :-)
- Dave Pan-Rios
Is it true the Palm Pre costs about $180 to make?
- Devon Blugh
They didn't have a 'CEOlebrity' to hype it. Google isn't a marketable brand in the real work (yet)
- Johnny Worthington
I've just about stopped paying attention to twitter all together. Technically I still have TwitterFox installed at the bottom of my browser, but I'm paying less attention to it all the time.
- Tony, Paradox of FF
i think facebook's new changes are a mistake, I agree with Veronica on this one it should just be what it used to be--just be a platform to organize the people you already know.
- Josh Windisch
There has been a serious lack of platforms that allow you to throw sheep at people, and facebook has succeeded in that niche, you're right Eric!
- Josh Windisch
I tried pwning a couple of months ago but pwnage wouldn't work on the new MBPs. Has this changed? [Edit] Assuming you used your mac of course.
- Kamath (नमः)
Used QuickPwn on the Mac - had to install old USB drivers on 10.5.6 for DFU to work, but it was easy enough.
- Leo Laporte
I used QuickPwn and it works good. I like it for running Apps in the background and ability to record video!
- Philip Mikaelian
as Leo said, QuickPwn is the trick, as to why would one Jailbreak? Really now, why wouldn't one Jailbreak and utilize ones iPhone to it's full potential?
- Jerry O'Connell
Great concept, initial effort. Like that one can use wifi vs. proprietary 3G to transmit content. Also enables use of higher end devices vs. low end cell phone type cameras--yet enjoy similar real (or near real) time transmission. .
- JimmyJet