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Video about Life -- 16: Moments
Video about Life -- 16: Moments
April Buchheit
A photograph of a rapidly spinning propeller taken with an iPhone -
A photograph of a rapidly spinning propeller taken with an iPhone
What makes you think this came from an iPhone? - Gabe
Just going by what reddit says, I suppose. I guess I shouldn't be so presumptuous. - April Buchheit
XKCD webcomic
"A laptop battery contains roughly the stored energy of a hand grenade, and if shorted it ... hey! You can't arrest me if I prove your rules inconsistent!"
lol - Pistos
AJ Batac
What's the difference?
nothing bad about it. - Eivind
LOL - Anika
Chun Ge is so smart - 大白猫
That is logical :) - Burçak Çubukçu
LMAO!!! - vijay
haha. good one! :D - Praveen Vasudev
LOL - Abhishek
Oh,Chun, I know him!!! XDD He is so great! - K.D.
Feels like an old joke, but I could be wrong. One thing struck me: I couldn't think of a single Jewish relative friend or acquaintance named Alexander. This cleared some naming tradition history (see last three paragraphs). "And that's one to grow on." :) - Micah
Micah, yes, it's an old joke. (I think I heard it in the 90s.) And that's a fascinating article, thanks. - Stephen Mack
Kevin Fox
I just shot this at Petco. They were doing this when I found them and they were still going when I left 15 minutes later! - Kevin Fox from iPhone
The brown one is or will soon be brain damaged from all that spinning! Could you imagine how disoriented you'd be if you went around in loops for 15 minutes straight? - EricaJoy
At least the white one keeps maybe he's having fun....but the brown one just lays there like a lump, as if he doesn't know how to get off the damn thing! You want to yell, "JUMP"... - Bonnie Foster
I think the brown one is trying out for the astronaut training program. - Kevin Fox
Glad to see you're putting that 3GS to good use, Kevin! #fb - Stephen Mack
Totally. I was all 'I wish I could video this and put it on FriendFeed. OH WAIT. I CAN!' - Kevin Fox
I wish we could know whether the brown one was enjoying it or just too ignorant to know better. :o - Adam Lasnik
AWESOME! :) - Georgia
My cat Ozzie liked watching this video.. - Matt Cutts from iPhone
actually, my dad had an interesting take on this. He suggested that the darker mouse was bossing around the white mouse, insisting that the latter keep spinning for his enjoyment... and only occasionally took breaks to berate the white mouse for slowing or stopping (whereupon, indeed, we see the white mouse resume treadmilling). - Adam Lasnik
Now we know where you get it from, Adam..... :P - Claudia Petrilli
Yes, I am such a cruel taskmaster :P - Adam Lasnik
It's funny because at several times you can see the white mouse stop and touch noses with the dark mouse, as if to say "Keep going?" "Keep going!!". - Kevin Fox
Adam, I was thinking more in terms of wit :) - Claudia Petrilli
Bo Stern
First Black Holes Starved at Birth -
First Black Holes Starved at Birth
"The first black holes in the universe were born starving. A new study found that the earliest black holes lacked nearby matter to gobble up, and so lay relatively stagnant in pockets of emptiness." - Bo Stern from Bookmarklet
Poor things ... - Bo Stern
Seems like black hole at the center of our galaxy had it the other way around, very hungry during its teens, but now mostly mellowed out in old age (having gobbled up all matter in its vicinity). - Bo Stern
AJ Batac
Breaking Up a Traffic Jam! MUST SEE -
Breaking Up a Traffic Jam! MUST SEE
"Sometimes a single driver can vastly improve traffic." - AJ Batac from Bookmarklet
I think I'll do this from now on - AJ Batac
I had heard about something like this a while back. I try to do it as much as I can but jackalopes are always cutting in the space. Oh well. - (Curtis/Alan) Jackson
Continue what you are doing Curtis. Don't mind those jackalopeseses - AJ Batac
This philosophy collapses when you have real gridlock though; if all the lanes are clogged with stopped (or very slow moving) traffic and you try to employ this technique, you just end up pissing off the cars trapped behind you because you are going 5mph while everyone else is going 10. - Phil Glockner
It's simply courteous and defensive driving. There should be space between cars for safety. And there's no reason to close ranks to not allow others in. We're all going in the same direction with the same goal. If you'd like others to be courteous, always be courteous yourself. - ·[▪_▪]·
Living in LA has totally colored how I drive now. I remember going back home to SD to see my folks and I was agog at how much more aggressive I'd become. :( - Derrick
It's not cheating, it's just optimal timing :-) - Todd Hoff
It's the rocket scientist like this that causes wrecks behind him and road rage. Slower traffic keep right is the law (for good reason). He demonstrates why he should stay in the far right lane, go about his business, and stop trying to "fix all of the traffic around him". What an ego. - Robert Kenney
the most important part is really the end, where he says how this style of driving is actually calming and altruistic instead of infuriating and selfish.... geez, if everything felt that way we'd have less problems once people got out of their car, all frustrated and pissy. - Nicķ
Simple math. - Mike Reynolds
This is absolutely brilliant. I think I just found a pick of the week and it's only Tuesday. - Josh Haley
This is the dude who did the zero cost steadycam using a tripod. Good stuff. - Rodfather
I gotta check that out, Rodfather. I could put a steadycam to work. - Josh Haley
I received a 404 error. There seems to be a traffic jam on the server as well. - Louis Trapani from iPhone
It's kind of obvious.. stop and go causes problems (and wrecks), even if it does take you longer, it doesn't FEEL longer because you aren't gas/break/gas/break, so less stressful drive. On the flip side, you think this guy driving slow (and not keeping the traffic pace) will cause someone else to slam him in the rear? - Tim Hoeck
It might cause more disruption with cars behind him moving into the other lane to pass him. Honestly, I can't stand drivers who leave a huge gap in front during a traffic jam. Josh, it's basically just extending a tripod and holding it in the middle :) - Rodfather
Interesting: "Governor Bush vetoed 2005 SB732, which would have reserved the left lane for passing, saying that drivers blocking the left lane are 'cautious and careful.'" - from "State keep right laws" - Micah
So, his basic tactic, albeit in a single lane, is similar to what I see highway patrol officers do when they want to SLOW DOWN traffic -- the highway patrol car swerves back and forth from fast to left to right lane and back and forth, lights ablazing, effectively doing two things -- creating a BIG GAP between the cop car and the rest of the traffic in front of him, and second SLOWS... more... - Pete D
A few people already mentioned it above, but let me also say that this technique will not work in heavily trafficked roads. I've spent time in cities like Kuala Lumpur, Jakarta, Bangkok and you just can't leave a large gap between you and the car in front of you. First they will get filled by other cars really really quickly, and second you will just piss off the cars behind you. - Andre P. Siregar
My wife and I debate this, because I sometimes do this myself. Stop and go traffic seems silly, when throughput would be higher if people left enough space between cars to absorb some of the braking. The website at is interesting, especially the link to that claims single-lane jams would be radically reduced if >=20% of cars had adaptive cruise control. - Matt Cutts
Meh. I just do whatever gets me to my destination fastest #aggressivedriver - LANjackal
kinda like why people are requested to exit in an orderly fashion during a fire. The only hindrance to this is getting over the feeling of being taken advantage of by the jackasses who ignore the order. But no pain no gain and you have to live with that for the greater good. - vijay
I practice a type-A version of this in non-stop-and-go traffic, I'd call "driving Parkour", basically, I tend to drive over the speed limit, but I leave large gaps, and when I need to slow down, I avoid hitting my brakes and try to led friction/drag slow my car down before I have to hit my breaks. I look far ahead and try to plot out if I need to switch lanes in order to maintain speed... more... - Ray Cromwell
Clarkson eluded to this in his unique crass manner, don't brake and drive clever. Save everyone money. - Toby Graham
the biggest cause of traffic jams are the idiots who don't get in lane and bimble along in the middle lane without any plan to actually overtake anyone. I've seen people when there has been nothing on the inside lane and yet they won't pull into it as they should. This is even more obvious when you consider that articulated lorries aren't allowed to drive in the outside lane, meaning... more... - alphaxion
( ++ alphaxion for 'bimble'. Loving that :D ) - vijay
The roads imho would be better if more drove this way. I was, however, waiting for some kind of shocking thing to happen in the video. - Rob Schieber
I wish iPhone supported flash or other flash based video websites especially if I want to watch videos on website other than YouTube. - Ashish from iPhone
I agree ashish. I "liked" this just so I could watch it later on my laptop. shouldn't have to do that. - Jen (SquirrelGirl)
This is actually an impressive use of game theory/backward induction to determine an optimal strategy. If this guy isn't a mathematician or work for the highway department, he should be. - Mark Trapp
i do the same here in Rome/Italy since 1998 - FullSite
Great to see this taken up again - I've been doing this since I first read his site years ago... - Kevin Marks
I always keep lot of room in front of my car for my safety but I think it takes lot of room and creates longer line. - Ashish
While the line may be longer the actual distance you travel isn't any greater; you use less gas; your breaks will last longer; you're less likely to be involved in a crash and in fact it has an almost negligible affect on your travel time. Yes it is "slower" but on my 50 mile commute the difference is maybe a couple of minutes. - Eoghann Irving
I agree Eoghann Irving. Wish everybody thought like this. - Ashish
+1 Pete Delucchi. I do agree it's probably better for your mental health to drive this way. Assuming you don't mind the "insult" of everybody cutting into to your lane. - Matsis
Drivers behind me may get annoyed but there is always room at the front ;) - Ashish
I used to drive like this, until my commute changed to one that had more traffic lights. Then I realized that letting cars in front of me didn't make 1 second per car difference, it could make 10's of minutes, because I'd often miss traffic light cycles. I wish it wasn't the case - I guess it's going to depends on your commute. - Nick Lothian
Bo Stern
Fermi Paradox Points to Fewer Than 10 Extraterrestrial Civilizations -
Fermi Paradox Points to Fewer Than 10 Extraterrestrial Civilizations
"The Fermi paradox focuses on the existence of advanced civilizations elsewhere in the galaxy. If these civilizations are out there--and many analyses suggest the galaxy should be teeming with life--why haven't we seen evidence of them? Today Carlos Cotta and Álvaro Morales from the University of Malaga in Spain add another angle to the discussion. One consideration is the speed at which a sufficiently advanced civilization could colonize the galaxy. Various analyses suggest that using spacecraft that travel at a tenth of the speed of light, a colonization wave could take some 50 million years to sweep the galaxy. Others have calculated that it may be closer to 13 billion years, which may explain why we have yet to spot extraterrestrials." - Bo Stern from Bookmarklet
Bo Stern
Beautiful Lamborghini X Concept -
Beautiful Lamborghini X Concept
Beautiful Lamborghini X Concept
Show all
Beautiful? Nooooo. I'd say fugly. - Tapio Kulmala
Strongly disagree, I think it's hot - LANjackal
It really looks like it needs to take a fat shit. - ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
The front looks like shit, do like the rear, however. - Not Me
@smalheiser Easy - it'll only get better. By having @Microsoft power (ONLY) Y! search, we can better focus on core products like Mail.
Paul Buchheit
It was the summer of '92. I got my first real C compiler - bought it at the ham fest.
And as I recall, those were low-density 5.25" floppies. - Paul Buchheit
2.0? - Gabe
Yup, 2.0. It was all downhill from there. For some reason that's still the fastest C compiler I've ever used, even though it was running on a 25 MHz 386. - Paul Buchheit
It cost $11 - Paul Buchheit from iPhone
Wow this is close to when I got Turbo C++ 1.0, maybe? ~1992. - Michael Herf
In 1989 I was entrusted with the first Mac-port of MicroEmacs 3.9e source code (compiled with Aztec C) by a guy who just got hired by Microsoft, and later rose to become one of their division managers (Hi Earle!). It fit on a floppy, but was a dog to download at 1200 baud. - ianf ⌘
Paul, do you ever throw stuff away? :-) - Todd Hoff
I have the very same disks. I was recently reminiscing about them and my inability to throw away tech detritus on SuperUser ( - Tom Horn
Turbo C 2.0 was pretty much the pinnacle of C compiler speed. Everything from then on was slower because they keep on adding features. The whole Turbo C is probably smaller than a typical C++ STL Hello World program. - Gabe
Did ya play it till your fingers bled? :) - Patrick Jordan
It was `95 for me, my friend gave me Borland C++ 5.5 and the "Problem Solving and Abstraction in C++" book - Cornelius Toole
which hamfest? - MiniMage
I bought Modula-2 for the Amiga in the late 80's and had no clue what I was doing. - Rodfather
I had a somewhat irrational dislike of C back then. So I did Pascal. - Wirehead
I stuck with BASIC variations forever... GFA Basic, AmigaBASIC, STOS, AMOS... until I bought a "Learn C Programming" book around '92. That put me off code entirely. :D - Roger Benningfield
I remember the Turbo C debugger was the first proper IDE I used. That DOS GUI create watches on variables blew my mind. My first departure from printf debugging. - Tom Horn
Borland may not have invented the IDE, but as far as I'm concerned they perfected it. - Gabe
Wow, Turbo Assembler, C++ Framework!! Somewhere I've both on the original Borland box :-) - Luca Perugini from iPhone
I had the same, might still have them tucked somewhere... - Amit Morson
Is Paul a Ham too? .... AKA WA2AAB -> - Charlie Anzman
turbo c is the king :) - Vehbi Emiroglu
KA0GQI. I never made it past Technician. - DGentry
Ah, good old Turbo C (Turbo Pascal was good too). I'd have to disagree slightly that it was all downhill after 2.0 -- I thought it was a great product up through 3.1. But they took a serious nosedive in the 4.x period, with the switch to Windows. After that it was all Watcom for me, at least for DOS/Windows games. The tools were ugly, but they worked really well. - Joel Webber
nice! - (jeff)isageek
If I recall, those are writable, too. There's tape over the edge. - Jesse Stay
And KC5PZP here - I'm General class, passed 13wpm back when it was required - Jesse Stay
haha hamfest! i used to get software there all the time when i went with my dad! (he's a HAM) - andy brudtkuhl
1995 National Field Day winners here :-) - Jesse Stay
Jesse - Wondering if one geekdom goes with the other. Passed General class back when you had to appear in person in the NYC Fed Bldg. I was 11 .... Big guy with a cigar watched if you were cheating :) Memories. Baskind ... Why am I not surprised. Think we were separated at birth or something ... what's next?? - Charlie Anzman
I was the Rochester, NY hamfest. I was never a ham though -- we just went for the tech flea market. I always loved overhearing conversations where people referred to each other by their call sign (e.g. "I just had lunch with WA2AAB and KA0GQI"). I guess it was kind of like Twitter ;) - Paul Buchheit
i remember turbo C. What is wrong with me. - anna sauce
Were you part of the old RTI/Apache clique? - anna sauce
I paid much more for ordering Turbo C 1.0 - but it was so exciting to use a real programming language. - Oliver Bouchard
Those were good days and investment as well. - James Stratford
'92? seriously? I was at high school running a pirate ftp site out of my dorm room (ethernet baby!) ME and a buddy were hacking up our own version of dikumud running on the schools sun "server". I don't know when I got my first C compiler, but it must have been < 1990. I remember it came on a disk in a "Teach yourself C" book. Good times. - Joe Beda
Joe, this was my "first real C compiler" because I first tried to learn C by downloading some freeware C compiler from a FidoNet BBS along with a "learn C" text file (I was very cheap). The problem is that the compiler was not complete, so half the things in the "learn C" text file didn't compile. C was my first language (I never did Basic or any of that), so I was also learning to program, not just learning C. Needless to say, it was difficult. - Paul Buchheit
I approve of this thread. - Ted Roden
My first C compiler was in a class at a community college around 1989. We used Mix C, which seems to still exist: - Gabe
Paul, exactly - Ham Radio was the original "microblogging" network. Not only were we required to keep our messages short, we couldn't use a real alphabet. Imagine if Twitter were all Morse Code. :-) - Jesse Stay
Hams!!!!! Funny, I just saw this and earlier today I posted a pic of my dad with his gear. He (and many others) is disappointed that learning morse code is no longer required. - Katy S
BTW Paul: those aren't low-density floppies. If those are 360k, they are double-density floppies. Regular low-density floppies held either 160k or 180k depending on whether they were 8 or 9 sectors per track. - Gabe
13 years late to the party (1969), I started using C in 1982. Started with Fortran, 6502 machine language (e.g. assembly language without the compiler), Basic, Cobol. Most of my "coding" is in Excel & HTML these days. - Mitchell Tsai
I had those 'Turbo-C' compiler 5.25" floppies too, Paul! Aw.. souvenirs.. - Thierry R. Andriamirado
Yes, Turbo-C rocked! Turbo-C++ too. And Turbo-Pascal was a revelation! (at least for me: changed my life ;-)) - Thierry R. Andriamirado from email
I used Turbo Pascal. My first C compiler was THINK C (on the Macintosh). - DGentry
It'll be funny if this 2009 thread bounces to the top ... Just did a search for my own call sign to be sure it was current .... Paul ... I remember the Rochester Hamfest well .... but I don't remember doing lunch? :) - Charlie Anzman
Matt Cutts
A Google easter egg for people who know what recursion is: :)
It also works in German: - Matt Cutts
Recursion :) - alfred westerveld
Love it! - Лёша from iPhone
I kept hitting it repeatedly hoping something new would happen. It didn't :) - mike fabio
yeah would be cool if it changed to 'did you mean stack overflow' if you refreshed enough - Private Sanjeev
Hah! Recursive searches in Google. That's cute! - Peter Murray
Wow! Very funny! :) - Peter
Private Sanjeev - *laugh* - Andrew C (✔)
love it. - Ron George
Subtle yet amazing! - Veetrag
Did you mean recursion? LOL! - Jordi Rosell
A friendfeed easter egg for those who know what recursion is: - Tanath
Awesome! - Ordinarybug Heather
LOL @ Tanath! - Ordinarybug Heather
Gary, I haven't used PRIMOS since like 8th grade. I love that someone else remembers PRIMOS. I learned on a PRIMOS system before I went to college and discovered Unix. - Matt Cutts
Good stuff. Note though that (at least for me), you don't get the easter egg from following the link. You have to post the query from the search page itself. Then, BINGO. Also, well played, Tanath :) - Micah
this one post sent me down SO MANY rabbit trails on math heh - Tyler Gillies
What's recursion? - Christian (Simply X)
What's recursion? - Christian (Simply X)
MG Siegler
this post has maybe the best screenshot ever.
That ChaCha response is the ultimate non sequitur. Too funny. - Mike Doeff
These are quite revealing as well, and in any, not solely the proscribed "start from the bottom" reading order! - ianf ⌘
Reminds me of the old e-mail service "Oracle" (before the database company of the name). You send in a question, and then get to answer someone else's question. Generally done with humor. It was awesome. - Art Stanton
LOL - Thomas Power
April Buchheit
5 Insects You Should Eat But Probably Wouldn’t: Insects on a Stick -
5 Insects You Should Eat But Probably Wouldn’t: Insects on a Stick
5 Insects You Should Eat But Probably Wouldn’t: Insects on a Stick
"There are millions of insect species known worldwide. Only 1500 or so are reported edible. This post reviews only 5 of those you could eat and how they are cooked throughout the world. Entomophagy (a Greek word which means “insect eating”) is the practice of eating insects as food. While it is quite an ordinary thing in most Eastern cultures, it is considered a taboo in Europe and North America which may seem odd considering how plentiful and protein-packed insects are." - April Buchheit from Bookmarklet
The guy in the background of the 1st pic looks about to puke - LANjackal
One of the problems here is that they look like the live versions. (I guess this is true for crustaceans as well, and molluscs are limbless and thus harder to sympathize with.) But in the supermarket, beef, pork, chicken (to some extent, as it's sold in N.America without head, feet, or feathers) are pretty far from the living animals. - Andrew C (✔)
my friends from Laos had giant bugs like that pic on the left in the TOASTER OVEN! augh! - Susan Beebe
The photo on the right is a centipede. Insects by definition all have 6 legs. Maybe he meant "arthropods on a stick". - Gabe
The week before my food in Dalian included the insects in the first picture :) It tastes not bad when you put it in your mouth, but after chewing, the feeling is not so good~I had two.... - K.D.
Eew! I'll have nightmares from this. Especially the centipede.. *Shudder* - Alex
The insects in the left pic are silkworm chrysalis. I tried them too:-). I don't like them. I also have eaten katydid, but I like the cicadas the best. My mouth waters when I think of grilled cicadas. I had a lot when I was a kid. They are delicious when they are fresh from shell in the early morning. - Dallas Cao
Rachel Lea Fox
xkcd - A Webcomic - Estimation -
xkcd - A Webcomic - Estimation
LOL - Micah
OH MAN, this is SO spot on! - Josh Haley from iPhone
I LOVE XKCD!!! - Rachel Lea Fox
haha this is awesome - Mitch
That is one of the funniest xkcds I have seen in a while. Hilarious. - Bret Taylor
My cheap-ass GPS... %) - Ted Russ
Louis Gray
FriendFeed Opens Up the Firehose to Developers -
Excellent explanation of the new changes :) - LANjackal
rock n' roll FF are the FFboys - Thomas Power
Kelly Norton
Why is it that government spending is so frequently connected with pork? And couldn't we find 2 pounds of sliced ham for less than $1,191,200? Bacon I can understand, but sliced ham?
Ok, that's just weird. Someone please tell me this isn't literally a $10^6 piece of ham... - Joel Webber
Umm, WTF!? I hope this was a large catered event, and something like 5,000 2lb hams were sliced up, otherwise 1) where do I submit bids to provide these services? I can do it for $900,000. 2) Can someone ask Obama about this at the next press conference/town hall? - Ray Cromwell
Found another suspect one: The $500,000 HVAC repair for a dining hall? oh and "Six Sigma" business process mapping, $700+k - Ray Cromwell
It was actually 760,000 pounds of ham at $1.50 per lb: - Ray Cromwell
Damn, I guess I'll have to cancel my plans for a pork startup. It doesn't seem as lucrative as it did a few days ago. - Kelly Norton
mmm ... pork startup - Ben Dalton
Dude, the government gets sliced ham for $1.50 per lb? I need the number of their deli... - FFing Enigma
Bo Stern
Scientists Discover Light Force with “Push” Power -
Scientists Discover Light Force with “Push” Power
"New Haven, Conn. — A team of Yale University researchers has discovered a "repulsive" light force that can be used to manipulate components on silicon microchips, meaning future nanodevices could be controlled by light rather than electricity." - Bo Stern from Bookmarklet
Duck my life
duckmylife blocked in five countries due to democracy movements rallying around duck shooting #dml
Bo Stern
New wonder material, one-atom thick, has scientists abuzz -
New wonder material, one-atom thick, has scientists abuzz
"Imagine a carbon sheet that's only one atom thick but is stronger than diamond and conducts electricity 100 times faster than the silicon in computer chips. That's graphene, the latest wonder material coming out of science laboratories around the world. It's creating tremendous buzz among physicists, chemists and electronic engineers." - Bo Stern from Bookmarklet
XKCD webcomic
"Hey, what are the odds -- five Ayn Rand fans on the same train! Must be going to a convention."
Bret Taylor
Lazyfeed seems neat. Very beautiful and seems quite usable, at least from the demo -
Lazyfeed seems neat. Very beautiful and seems quite usable, at least from the demo
More details here with a self-referential link: - Louis Gray
Robert Scoble
I am tracking people on Twitter's SUL like @timoreilly. They can't get people to follow them on Facebook or FriendFeed. Here's analysis:
Tim has 617,000 followers on Twitter -- almost all gained because he is on the suggested user list. But he only has 10,000 followers on FriendFeed. TechCrunch has almost the same pattern. Why is this? - Robert Scoble
They can't get people to follow them because the people who added them are not really listening and impressionable. - Louis Gray
You have to be engaged and interactive to have influence. - Louis Gray
It's what I was hinting at this morning. Most of the users on Twitter don't actually take action or DO anything. They aren't followers. They aren't listening. They aren't engaged. So these audiences can't be transfered anywhere else. - Robert Scoble
Twitter is Revolution! Yay Twitter! - Steven E. Streight
This is Twitter's true lock in. - Robert Scoble
Could it also be that they never talk about Friendfeed or Facebook while on Twitter and therefore no one knows that they're actually here? - Kenton
Yeah, Twitter has turned into more micro-rss for me versus conversational. - Tony
Why would any freedom loving person NOT have a green avatar? - Steven E. Streight
617,000, but how many of those are active users? I'd imagine 50% or more are one time users, dead accounts - sean percival
It's all about narcissism for most people unfortunately. - Steven E. Streight
It's impossible for anybody to have 617,000 followers on Friendfeed, because that's about double the active network size. ;) - Shéa Bennett
Shea: very funny! - Robert Scoble
Kenton, That's it for me. I follow Tim on Twitter, actually find him very engaged there, but didn't automatically assume he was on FB and FF. Now I will - Francine Hardaway
I hate FaceBook - Steven E. Streight
also the chance of someone responding on a sul is higher on friendfeed that is on twitter - Kashif Khan
Shea: the problem with your thesis is that it holds true on Facebook. I have more fans there than TechCrunch does. - Robert Scoble
Also, if you only ever re-tweet instead of putting up original content your followers are going to tend to be more passive. - Kenton
how about them dopey Positive Affirmation tweeters? Ugh! - Steven E. Streight
If I want inspirational quotes, I'll open a Bible thank you. - Steven E. Streight
Kenton: that's true too, but TechCrunch puts up original content and he has fewer followers on Facebook than I do (and I post almost NOTHING on Facebook). - Robert Scoble
This is the very basic definition of following, you don't act, you follow. If you want to engage people, you need a community, which twitter can help you to manage but won't do for you. @loic can make many people do something, he has influence, because he built a community, not because he has followers. - Jonathan Belgourari
Jonathan: yup and Guy Kawasaki has a lot more influence than I do and he neither is on Twitter's SUL and he doesn't even write all his own Tweets (he admits he has a team writing them). - Robert Scoble
if you have a lot of followers interaction is very limited. You miss out on so much when you hit the refresh page when you have followers . Im guessing after many attempts of trying to communicate and not receiving anything back ppl quit - Kashif Khan
Jonathan: I call that a "reader" or a "consumer" then, not a follower. Followers do what you ask them to do. :-) - Robert Scoble
Went and looked for him on FB. Not even a photo? Does he hang out there? - Francine Hardaway
on a much smaller scale I've looked at overlaps between my twitter (3000) fb (900) ff (800); there seems to be about 300 people who are common to all three, the rest choose where and how to interact with me. I tend to think of the 300 as my "digital dunbar number". - JP Rangaswami
Kashif: I interact here with almost everyone and I have 42,000 followers here. - Robert Scoble
good point Robert, I don't really consider Facebook a place to go for information like that so I had only really considered Friendfeed. - Kenton
Twitter is a different medium to the others, Robert. It's a lot less of a commitment to follow somebody on that network. FF has a relatively tiny user base so a comparison there is apples and oranges. Facebook for the majority is still less about following *anybody* and more about following people you know and trust. Why? Because you're giving away a lot of yourself each time you add... more... - Shéa Bennett
Alex: heheh. I'm not the only insane one. - Robert Scoble
but where is interacting easier , twitter or friendfeed ? - Kashif Khan
Shea: the truth about Twitter is that many people check it out for a few minutes and then never return to the service. Or if they do return, they do so very sporadically. Over here or on Facebook the audiences are much more engaged. - Robert Scoble
imagine having to track this same conversation using twitters web interface and not having tweetdeck or seismic to help you out - Kashif Khan
Robert: I keep hearing that but I'm very engaged with my network. And I regularly remove the people who I feel don't make any kind of an effort. It's all about keeping things relative. - Shéa Bennett
Shea: the other truth about the Suggested User List is these are not organic followers. They are people who opened an account and clicked "add all the suggested users." Before Tim and Mashable and TechCrunch were added to that list I had more followers on Twitter. So did Leo Laporte. So did Guy Kawasaki. So, most of those newer followers that Tim and Mike got by being on the SUL aren't strong followers. That's why they aren't very engaged. - Robert Scoble
I agree re: Twitter - they check it out and then leave - the follow and forget methodology. I guess the real measure of how interactive his followers are would be to request that they do something (click a link, etc.) In reality, if he got 1/10 of 1% to do anything, I'd be impressed. - Jeff Pomeroy
You also have to remember that the majority of FB's 200 million users are non-techy people, many of whom see FB *as* the internet, not just a product of it. I think Twitter's audience is maturer (in terms of average age, as well as content) and less interesting in bells and whistles (videos, music etc). - Shéa Bennett
Jeff: what got Twitter to be so cool is engagedment USED to be a lot higher than 1/10th of 1% for everyone. Now it has gone down. - Robert Scoble
I have no disagreement at all about the SUL. I've written several articles about it on Twittercism. It needs to be scrapped or totally revamped. And yeah, a lot of the followers folk get from being on the SUL are very casual users, assuming they return at all. - Shéa Bennett
Shea: I totally disagree with that thesis. I did a survey of 600 Web innovators, influencers, and press. About 85% are on all three social networks (Twitter, Friendfeed, Facebook). And many of those are participating more on Facebook than on Twitter lately. Why is that? - Robert Scoble
Alex: I blocked spymaster. :-) - Robert Scoble
Maybe they are participating on Facebook more because they can truly control who sees what when they have their discussions. Twitter allows a lot of 'noise' to occur from unknown followers when these people are trying to communicate amongst themselves. Maybe Facebook or Friendfeed is just the better medium for those types of interactions. - Jeff Pomeroy
Robert: Which thesis? Blasted Friendfeed and its lack of threaded comments. ;) - Shéa Bennett
even on FB its easier to track conversations - Kashif Khan
As for why your list are involved more on FB than Twitter, I have no idea. But 600 from either network is still a very small sample. I'm confused how these folk are actually "participating" on FB, too. Specifically, what does that word mean on that network? What do they do? My experience is that over half of my followers go ballistic if I update my status on FB more than about 15-20 times per day. And I'm *very* selective to make sure it's only the good stuff. :) - Shéa Bennett
It is personality vs brand. You Robert, Jason Calacanis, Leo Lapporte, are personalities before brand. We talk to you as real people. O'riley is brand before personality. We are not used to talking back to a brand unless we're miffed about something. It is just not normal. For instance today when you asked my question at the #hpreveal thing it cought them off guard and totally blew me... more... - Ron Hudson
Ron: good point. The real answer is that Twitter totally messed with the system by choosing its own "stars" instead of letting the real stars organically bubble up to the top. Since O'Reilly and Arrington are "chosen stars" their followers aren't strong followers like the ones that they got organically. Even Arrington admits this in analysis. - Robert Scoble
I totally agree with Ron about that. That's what I love about FF and Twitter - it's the first time that we've had anything like a level playing field for discourse. And the ones who don't engage now stand out like sore thumbs. - Shéa Bennett
I always love it when somebody has 40,000 followers but is following 40 people. What a waste. Why even engage? You, Robert have almost as many followers as followees. - Curt Mercadante
for me it seems that given his lopsided ratio, it gives the impression that he is not truly interactive but rather broadcasting and waiting for feedback. - Eran Even-Kesef
An engaged audience is built slowly, not quickly - Jesse Stay
So now when a new user gets on Twitter they see the same reinforced message from everywhere else. "These are people/brands you should LISTEN to" It is not "These are people to get to know and have conversation with" - Ron Hudson
Robert, wouldn't the organic SUL just be the top 100 most-followed? Which even before the SUL got going wasn't exactly a bastion of quality. All Twitter needs to do is mix things up - when I sign up (or check the SUL at any time), the service should give me X of its own recommendations, and the same amount that are tailored to me by my own interests. Of course, for this to really work... more... - Shéa Bennett
Curt: lots of people use these things for broadcasting. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I do prefer to follow people who engage. - Robert Scoble
Hey Louis Gray are you anti-SUL like many of us in this thread? - Mark
I followed @timoreilly for a while on twitter, but didn't find him interesting enough to keep following. It's true that @GuyKawasaki doesn't write all his own tweets, but I like them and look forward to them (if one of his ladies have written the tweet they will have their initials at the end of it.) I follow you, Robert, because I like your tweets too. I will follow anyone who follows... more... - Andrew Jordan
Shea: I can see about 100 ways to build a useful SUL. The current SUL just serves @ev and @biz 's own egos and purposes. - Robert Scoble
Mark: just remember that Twitter has signaled to the world that anyone who begs to be on, or complains about the SUL will never get onto it. - Robert Scoble
Robert: I agree. Between us, if they added you overnight, would you ask to be removed? I suspect you would, and I know at least one other has. - Shéa Bennett
Robert: Why do you think you are not on the Twitter SUL? iJustine was on it (til she was removed) - yet no Scobleizer - It makes zero sense. - Jim Connolly
Shea: yes, I will ask to be removed. I know one person who removed himself too. (Jay Rosen, journalism professor). Why would I ask to be removed? Because it's a huge gift and one that I would feel I need to disclose every time I talk about Twitter. Look at how many times I'm asked whether I'm paid by FriendFeed. Well, everyone on the Suggested User List is being paid by Twitter. - Robert Scoble
This feels like irc without the useful tools like tab-auto-complete. I keep wanting to ssh out and open irssi. . . - Ron Hudson
Aw man, I miss IRC. - Jason Nunnelley
There's a group of people I follow on twitter not to be part of their conversation but to inform conversations I have with people I know. My friends/acquaintances don't use friendfeed so I have little use for it. Facebook I leave for friends/family and twitter/web forums are for acquaintances. - Jonathan
Jim: three reasons I have never been on Twitter's Suggested User List: 1. Technically I was difficult to put on the list before they got rid of the @ reply functionality (I was one of the 3% who turned that feature on). 2. I talk about FriendFeed all the time (I wouldn't add someone who talked about a competitor all the time to my service either). 3. I have had days when I'm too noisy... more... - Robert Scoble
Does anyone know or have links to comments made by people on the SUL about the issue? - Mark
Robert: Thats a very honest and almost certainly accurate answer. - Jim Connolly
Mark: I've had some contact with @adventuregirl. - Shéa Bennett
There is a risk here of course regarding complaining about the SUL that one could easily be accused of sour grapes; that is, along the lines of, "How did THEY get on there, and not me?" Although I also suspect that the majority (the masses, if you will) on Twitter don't really care at all about things like the SUL, and are fairly blasé to the criticisms about it. I sincerely believe... more... - Shéa Bennett
Mark: honestly I've been following the SUL and other than when Veronica ripped me a new one for asking whether there was some sort of corruption to get on the list (big brands get on the list, for instance, and this list is totally corruptible because it is NOT a meritocracy) I can't remember ever hearing someone on the SUL discussing it in public. They know better because they are being gifted hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of followers and they don't want to be removed. - Robert Scoble
Mark: It's REALLY hard getting answers from people like Veronica Belmont or Pete Cashmore. They are both really cool people, but neither have replied to anything I have asked them, in relation to their SUL places. It's like they have been gagged. - Jim Connolly
Shea: most people will not care, that's right, until they figure out they are peasants in a royalty system. Then they will seek out systems that are meritocracies. The tide is already moving. - Robert Scoble
Robert: To your earlier point re: Tim O'Reilly - if the SUL system is broken and really just a method whereby new twitter users follow & forget, are these people truly "being gifted hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of followers"? - Jeff Pomeroy
I'm sure most of them don't wanna look a gift horse in the mouth. Is that the right metaphor? hehe - Mark
Hmm, I'm not sure Robert. Nobody seemed to leave FB when they were at risk of being sold out - the numbers just went up and up. I think the people who truly fight for this stuff are always in a real minority - they seem more prevalent because they're loud! :) I think most people drift away from social networks when they seem to have run their course, like MySpace. - Shéa Bennett
Jeff: yes, they are because they are now owning the top of lists at and other places. Also they are getting PR on TV shows worth many thousands of dollars (journalists love picking sources with huge numbers after their names). Finally: SOME of these followers DO engage. - Robert Scoble
Maybe Tim is too focused? he is not a chit chat BS guy enough to interest large amounts of people... Focus gives value but value that is high and very specific to certain (few) people. As you hinted Robert, value is not a matter of # of followers but of real impact /traction. People will listen and act more upon what is said on FF. FF is more value than traffic. - Harscoat
Maybe if a few dozen of us from this thread @reply the big players asking for a statement on their placw on SUL they will respond? - Mark
Scoble: I'm not sure they/we will seek out meritocracies. Like I said before it is not expected. I can go to crackberry forums or IRC if I want to be respected in a niche I think Facebook is more likely to draw people who want to be heard by their peers, because generally it is people you already have an established hierarchy of popularity with. It's high-school all over again. We tend to hang with our group and don't expect to be heard in others. - Ron Hudson
Don't get me wrong - folk will put their name on lists, and that kind of non-committal stuff. But when it comes to the crunch and, you know, actually quitting over change, they rarely do. - Shéa Bennett
Jeff: Yes they are, because most of them are selling some kind of advertising on their sites / blogs / podcasts etc. These are often sold on volume of eyeballs, and these will have increased by tens of thousands of percent after gaining all those Twitter followers. - Jim Connolly
"you did receive a gift. Advertising is sold by 1,000 viewers. Ask Ryan how much 1,000 people are worth. You did NOT earn that gift by any objective measure." - Rob Scoble, Feb 2009 - Mark
Mark: Unlikely. I think Robert is right - far too much to lose. Man, if they added me to the list, this time next week I'd be a millionaire! ;) - Shéa Bennett
Calacanis was widely quoted as saying a slot on the SUL was worth $250,000 US. - Jim Connolly
Robert: keep those threads coming, I get to follow good people on real-time, it's better than any Twitter SUL :) - Nir Ben Yona
Harscoat: I don't disagree a bit. Ron: good point about people not seeking out meritocracies. It does pollute the community, though, and people do figure that out eventually. If anything Facebook went the other way by limiting EVERYONE to 5,000. That brings celebrities down to everyone else's level, which builds good feelings and keeps marketers out. - Robert Scoble
Jim: It's worth far more than that. Mashable is close to 1 million followers. The account tweets about 15-20 times per day, most back to their own site. That network size is worth millions. TC isn't far behind, and is already saying Twitter is about 10% of their traffic. Jason's semi-serious offer was probably high at the time, but I think a spot on that list now over 12 months is worth easily a million bucks to a brand or power-blog. - Shéa Bennett
Bill: yup. Today I was talking with Alexander. He says that people will continue seeking out "smaller" spaces. My wife likes Facebook better than FriendFeed or Twitter for that reason: she feels it's the place where she can talk with just her circle of friends. - Robert Scoble
tidbit of info: spoke to someone last night (who shall remain nameless) that said they went up by >10k followers per day when they were put on the SUL. They still consider that their real follower numbers are closer to their organic growth rate. - Bill Sanders
I hope all the big players move to FF soon so I can stop visiting altogether. - Mark
I mean, $1/user that you can hit 15-20 times per day, 365 days a year, and if they unfollow, you're going to get another 40-50,000/week because you're on the SUL? I cannot believe Twitter doesn't monetize this feature. - Shéa Bennett
Shea: I think you are probably right - the numbers are insane and the SUL system is totally corrupt. - Jim Connolly
Robert, saying that people like me "can't build a following on Friendfeed" is silly. There are only so many networks that you can put time into. For whatever reason, I've chosen Twitter. You've chosen FriendFeed. The fact that I have 10,000 followers on FriendFeed is good news, given that I don't spend time here. Heck, I had 5,000 on Twitter when I started paying attention and using the service. - Tim O'Reilly
Thanks for coming Tim, do you agree with Robert that your SUL status is a "gift" and one in which makes it difficult for you to report on twitter honestly? - Mark
And for what it's worth, the SUL isn't very useful except for bragging rights. I had about 60K twitter followers when I went on the SUL; my peak click through-rate has perhaps doubled now that I have 10 times as many. Organic followers are what matters, except, as I say, for the media credibility that you get from people who don't know any better. - Tim O'Reilly
After all, the SUL is giving you lots of clicks, and clicks = page views and page views = dollars? - Mark
Tim: this post isn't only about you. But you must admit that you had fewer followers on Twitter than I did before you got added to the Suggested User List. You are getting gifted hundreds of thousands of followers per month. They aren't engaged. They won't do what you ask them to. Have you studied the hit rates the things you retweet are getting before and after getting on teh SUL? - Robert Scoble
Tim: You deserve to be on the SUL, but many of your SUL buddies don't. It really stinks, the way some of those names were added, and people like Leo Laporte and Scoble were blanked. - Jim Connolly
Mark - being on the Twitter SUL has absolutely no influence on what I do or do not report about Twitter. - Tim O'Reilly
Thanks, Tim x - Mark
Ahh, I see you have studied the hit rates and your observations match mine. These aren't "real" followers and they aren't engaged. Twitter did that to remove people they don't like from the top of the leaderboards (like Calacanis, Laporte, and me). - Robert Scoble
Is this about numbers (i.e. ratings and money) or is this about engagement? - Sawyer Training, Inc.
Incidentally, was iJustine removed from the SUL for something she said? Just wondering. I'd be interested to see if somebody on that list could be very critical about Twitter and stay on it. - Shéa Bennett
Tim is unsurprisingly savvy on the matter: "my peak click through-rate has perhaps doubled now that I have 10 times as many. Organic followers are what matters, except, as I say, for the media credibility that you get from people who don't know any better." In other words, organic followers are worth 10x more clicks/$$ than SUL followers. - Daniel J. Pritchett
Robert, did you recently share a Whisky with @Ev? What are the twitter bosses saying about the SUL and yoru complaints? - Mark
Tim: how do we know that, though? If you paid me hundreds of thousands of dollars per year I would need to disclose that to my audience and it would be very tough not to be influenced by that money you're paying me. Twitter is paying you a huge sum of money in followers and yet you say it has no influence on you. - Robert Scoble
Mark: I didn't bring it up with @ev (other than to make a small joke that he was building his own celebrities with the SUL, which he nervously smiled at). Why? Because I'd rather have these discussions out in public where you can see them and know that I'm not playing "footsie" with Twitter to get onto the list. - Robert Scoble
Sure it changes Tim's experience of the service and (at the least) doubles his direct financial rewards from the service but he's presumably not working on a word of mouth contract with them. The only way to be *completely* sure there's no conflict of interest would be for to block/redirect all direct or indirect clickthroughs from Twitter and I'm sure we can all agree that's not feasible. - Daniel J. Pritchett
That's just like the Robert we have known for a long time... - Amit Nangare
If this is about engagement consider that for me most of my engagement is "downstream" with my followers (who are few but important to me) rather than "upstream" where I look for trends, leads, and insights. I only interact upstream on rare occasions when I feel I might have something to add (and this may not be one of those times). - Sawyer Training, Inc.
Tim: It is impossible for you to be totally unbiased regarding Twitter, surely? - Jim Connolly
I like to think that after Robert had that whisky from Ev, his life spiralled out of control, a bit like something in Michael Douglas' The Game. Three days disappeared in a blur, and when he woke up, the only working login he had left was on Plurk. ;) - Shéa Bennett
It's impossible for any business to be completely unbiased regarding media outlets that cover/enable them, Jim. The best we can hope for is full disclosure, published conduct guidelines, and ombudsmen. - Daniel J. Pritchett from IM
Mark: also that wasn't an appropriate time socially. His wife was there, it wasn't an on the record type event, and it's not nice to be a jerk on a Saturday night. - Robert Scoble
Well I suppose twitter sends money to the SUL via followers, how is it it any different than Dell sending money to you via free laptops? - Mark
Daniel: We are talking about a 6 figure 'gift' from a company, to a group of people who write about that company. This is a really big deal. - Jim Connolly
@Shéa Bennett: Ijustine - man did that get old fast. That's what happens after 100 episodes of the same "yeah, yeah, you can ask ij" - Asgeir
Daniel: it's pretty hard to figure out that people are on the SUL. You have to have a new account and look every few days. Some people are building tracking systems to watch who is added and who is taken off (iJustine was on for a while but isn't anymore and she now is losing followers, if you watch the charts). Disclosure? People who are on this list don't see it as a gift. - Robert Scoble
Fair point, Rob x - Mark
It's simply a matter of scale, Jim. There is no realistic way for Tim to remain completely objective aside from eschewing Twitter altogether. As long as he is above board re: his dealings with Twitter that's really all that anyone can expect of him. - Daniel J. Pritchett from IM
Mark: if I take gifts I disclose it. I'd rather have the followers the SUL gives someone than a free laptop. A laptop is only worth $2,000. Getting on the SUL is worth many many more times that. - Robert Scoble
when i said "you", i didnt mean any of you in particular with the laptops - Mark
"you" just sounds better than "one" - how english of me - Mark
Good point, Robert. Perhaps Twitter should make it super obvious that people are on the SUL. It *would* be nice if text from SUL tweeters was visually distinguishable from regular tweeters so that we could know to (not) pay attention to it as per our preferences. - Daniel J. Pritchett from IM
One respectfully disagrees :) - Ian Betteridge
Regarding iJustine, I'm guessing she was pulled from the SUL early May? Check the chart: If that date correlates, that probably says all we need to know about the benefits. - Shéa Bennett
Robert - do you think all Twitter-related content published by SULers should include a boilerplate disclaimer such as "BTW I get zillions of clicks through Twitter's preferential treatment" at the top of every story? - Daniel J. Pritchett from IM
Daniel: at Steve Broback's Twitter Conference the Twitter employees were visibly uncomfortable talking about the SUL. It's interesting that they added a "verified" icon to my account but they aren't identifying who is on the SUL. - Robert Scoble
Whoa, Shéa - Mark
It was cool of Tim to 'almost' talk about the SUL here. The guy's a tech legend and is there on merit - I just wish the list was balanced so others who equally deserve a slot had one. - Jim Connolly
Daniel: yes. If the New York Times journalists were receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars from a company they cover, wouldn't you expect them to disclose that? - Robert Scoble
I won't argue with you there at all, Robert. I would be happy seeing disclaimers and graphics denoting SUL status. I was thinking the problem was more Twitter's than Tim's but I suppose it's both. - Daniel J. Pritchett from IM
That graphic blew my mind, Shea. Thanks! - Daniel J. Pritchett
Are most professional journalists doing online content paid based on page views? - Mark
or is it pay per article? - Mark
Jim: I wish the list was a meritocracy and based on your actual usage and value you add to Twitter. Personally I wish we had a list a lot more like or than what Twitter came up with. Mark: yes. - Robert Scoble
Robert: EXACTLY! - Jim Connolly
Mark: Journalism companies get paid by 1000 page views. That's called CPM. They then usually pay their reporters per article, or per word, or they are salaried. - Robert Scoble
One reason is FriendFeed lacks a way of linking to other users in a post. On Twitter you can @timoreilly or @TechCrunch and I'd click on them and see if they are worth following. Since you can't do that on FriendFeed I don't bother to look to see if they are worth following. - ChiliMac
Jim: I find it insulting that Oprah was added to the Suggested User List after doing only a dozen or so entries on Twitter. How did they know she would be a good Twitterer after only that few? How insulting is that to all the other people who put tons more work into the system? - Robert Scoble
I don't think this SUL thing is about numbers, it's about ego and personality. Can you live without expressing your personal believes and have PR people do your job or say what you have to say out loud on public and give up the courtesy and goodies. Why is it about personality? Example: When Scoble came to visit my country (Israel) everyone could have a talk with him directly without... more... - Nir Ben Yona
ChiliMac: funny, I found you just fine and subscribed to you here. It's a different way, though. Here you put full URLs into the message. Like "hey, everyone, follow ChiliMac here: " - Robert Scoble
Robert: If being on the list has negligible value as you proposed (and Tim essentially confirmed) in terms of click-throughs, are we perhaps being overly concerned with its 'benefits'? If Tim's network has gone x10 and his clicks are x2, it's likely that his gain is from a lot of people who followed him organically (i.e., normal network growth). - Shéa Bennett
Robert: The Oprah situation took the SUL issue and exposed it for what it is; a 'buddy list.' Not based on merit or value. I only heard of Twitter because of you and Leo. There are hundreds of thousands of early users who only discovered Twitter off you and Leo's mentions. How soon they forget! - Jim Connolly
Shea: perhaps we are overly concerned. But I notice that people don't often remove themselves from this list, and even when they do (like in Jay Rosen's case) it's only after really thinking through the ethical responsibility of taking a huge gift from a corporation that they potentially cover. - Robert Scoble
Jim: exactly. I really hate it when companies love you when they are getting started because they need a few evangelistic users (ICQ started with only 40 users, so that's all you really need) but then they stab you in the back once they don't need you anymore. That's why more than a few bloggers now ask for stock or fees to cover their companies. Me? I will continue being a sucker for an entrepreneur with a great product or service. - Robert Scoble
value is the way and not arbitrary will from kings (ev and biz eg)... so this thread opens one's eyes to the not so fair and ego driven aspect of twitter as a cy ( I still remember @ev with the Trump daughter in front of the white house ;) - SUL = buddy list of @ev and @biz... liked Jim suggestion - Harscoat
I agree about Oprah but Twitter wants names on there - people that the 180 million Facebook users they don't have on Twitter right now will recognise. Everybody knows Oprah. It isn't about being a 'good Twitterer' (which is of course a relative term - one man's P. Diddy is another man's Jack Schofield) - it's about new users going, "Hey, I know this person." and that validates the... more... - Shéa Bennett
I wish Twitter wold make it easier to connect with people that has same interests. wefollow is on the right track, but people add themselves to categories they don't belong in. The one with most follower under #photo has, as far as I can tell, never written anything about photos, or photo related news - Asgeir
there are the "cooperators" and "free riders/defectors" in life (in evo psy terms) - Robert is a cooperator (interested in the overall value for the group rather than his own personal interest)! pointing at entrepreneurs with great product and services for the community. Do not change - Harscoat
Twitter is really just a broadcast medium, you can be influential and be on the SUL, but it's more likely you just have a bunch of people checking out the service once and never looking again. FF allows you to build value and relationships around conversations. Take this very thread. Which is more monetizable in the long run? I think twitter will just become another protocol, FF provides a far more valuable service. But that's just my opinion really, and it all depends on how YOU define "useful" - John
I try to participate, but I have anywhere from 60 to 80 hours of work a week, and adding Twitter and FF to the list increased my hours. So I can't always participate even though I want to. - RobinDotNet
Robert, I'm intrigued by your success and focus on this subject. I wonder, how do you think a group fairs compared to a single personality? At the moment, you're the king of social media in my opinion because of your engagement. The attention you command is ten fold the value of Ashton's million plus drive-by fans. But, could 10 top-notch social folks stuck to a brand (like Mashable's core Twitter brand) out-perform a single guy's personal touch? [Sorry, I did go a bit OT] - Jason Nunnelley
The truth is the SUL list on Twitter falsely inflates everyone numbers who are on it, I suspect if Tim O'Reilly wasn't on the list his numbers percentage wise would be just about the same whether we are talking Twitter or FF. I also think that since FF doesn't have an auto follow method, like twitter, their is more thought put into who someone is going to follow. - Kim Landwehr
Kim: That's true, but it's not just a question of auto-follow. One, Facebook doesn't allow one-way following - you have to be 'friends'. Two, for most people, letting somebody friend them on FB is a fairly big deal as that person then has access to a lot of your life (personal details, photos, etc - it AMAZES me how many people put their cellphone number on Facebook, and then just... more... - Shéa Bennett
I agree SUL is billboard advertising. Essel-i support that 'just like to read' is fine for some. That's how I participate with Wikipedia and I can see some on twitter will simply be there looking for new eddies in the river of news. FriendFeed and Facebook lead for those of us wanting greater depth: No matter if you are a platform or a "personality" how is quality engagement promoted... more... - Lane Rapp
Jason: I am often at a disadvantage competing against brands with many people employed like TechCrunch and Mashable. What was interesting was that I (and others like Leo Laporte, Calacanis, Kawasaki, et al) was able to compete before the SUL propelled them above me and into a different league. At least on Twitter. Everywhere else I'm still kicking their behinds. Which is worth studying,... more... - Robert Scoble
I am not on the Twitter SUL. I have 15,000 on Twitter and 2,700 on FF. Could it be that there are fewer peeps on FF? - Beth Kanter
Beth: that's a pretty common ratio, but doesn't match anyone's who is on the SUL. But, you miss my point. On Facebook (which has far far far more people than Twitter) TechCrunch has far fewer fans than I do but on Twitter he has far more, all artificially gained. If TechCrunch were smart he'd have those people also follow his fan page on Facebook. - Robert Scoble
But you bring up an interesting point, Beth, for another thread. Why aren't your followers good followers of yours? I imagine you've told them about friendfeed. Why don't your followers listen to you? I thought it was just me. - Robert Scoble
What about the shear time to keep up with the topics of the day? For me twitter is all about reading quick short headlines, getting a pulse on what's going on, and then making a decision on what topics are important enough to engage deeper on. FF, FC, blogs, etc are the place to go deeper into the conversation. If you buy off on that, then the math comes into play,Twitter is the grand... more... - Robert Wilkins
Oprah, by the way, has 1,619,000 on Twitter and 760,000 on Facebook. I wonder how many followers Oprah was gifted by being on the recommended follower list, but you can see why Twitter is doing this. The higher Oprah's numbers are on Twitter the cooler Twitter seems and the more hype it gets and the more celebrities want to chase Oprah, even if they are for fake followers who don't mean that much. Brilliant strategy on Twitter's part. - Robert Scoble
yea, oprah=cool. you toting your camera maybe not so much to mainstream, glad to see the new hulk photo ;-) - Lane Rapp
Lane: Oprah is cool? Have you seen her Tweets? Not cool at all. - Robert Scoble
I have very different uses for each: Twitter, Facebook, FriendFeed... - Kelly A Nelson
Robert, Oprah's tweets are indeed superficial. Totally not engaged. She would do well to use twitter to engage both her audience and her causes between seasons. My joke was framed sarcastically enuff, but was to support your entire discussion here, that the SUL is rigged for twitter and celeb marketing. - Lane Rapp
Meh. all these celebs taking twitter away from us geeks :( its ours :( - Mark
Ellen Degeneres does a good job in my opinion - Lane Rapp
Mark, give twitter to the masses, sometimes I get the feeling FF wants to remain a niche. I can't say I would be disappointed as long as the lights stay on. We can contribute like we do on NPR. - Lane Rapp
Lane: they said that about Twitter two years ago. The thing is here that FriendFeed has nooks and crannies that can let us hide from the masses a lot better than we can hide on Twitter. - Robert Scoble
Beth, I think the difference between Twitter and FF is two fold, compounded and a big indicator as to why Robert may fair so much better here and FB. Twitter simplifies the competition (if there is such a thing, though people perceive it's real, so it is). It's all about followers and extremely competitive to gain them. FriendFeed is culturally different, and conversational. This kind... more... - Jason Nunnelley
Yes we can hide away in little corners, and even go private rooms if we want a little insider chat. Friendfeed is our underground movement! - Mark
Something Robert has done that works best in more conversational SM is brand himself as an all around cool guy. He's not "Robert Scoble the tech guru." Mashable and Techcrunch are very limited in their scope, so readers are likely to read their blip about their preferred technology and move on. Robert engages his readers on a multitude of topics, much more conversational. He'll actually... more... - Jason Nunnelley
Robert, thanks I'll do my part to welcome the masses while I learn more about the nooks and crannies. I noticed how all the FF user help rooms are active, but the Facebook user groups have limited discussion. - Lane Rapp
Lane (WARNING: shameless promotion) I'd be happy to host more conversations in newb regarding Facebook if you like, post tutorials, videos, etc. Are you more often a question source or an answer source? <edit> Meaning, I'd like to have someone else post help there if I start pushing my readers to the group. - Jason Nunnelley
Anyone heard any news about new friendfeed features? Sure would be cool to be able to post images and things in the discussion thread. - Mark
I hate to hit and run, but 90% of the people I follow I follow because I've seen them say interesting things and participate here. - Steve Lowe
Steve, why is that Hit and Run? - Jason Nunnelley
Is the FriendFeed back-end on Scala already? :) - The Pageman
Jason, I'd like that and think the rural, the elder, the poor, the disabled, and much of africa who get better high speed net access will as well. As fast as these platforms are growing the users have to help out with the concierge desk. I've got questions and I'm still newb enuff to answer some with empathy - Lane Rapp
If more people used clients that don't require following people to group them and/or see their tweets, the followers would n't be half as relevant on Twitter. I converse with lots of people I don't follow on facebook and FriendFeed. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Robert, the bottom line is people follow people for three reasons: content, content and content. The question is what difference does the SUL on Twitter make if most people just ignore boring content and move on? - Jason Nunnelley
My mom joined Twitter today (that tells me its not Myspace, so much for my original thesis) but she didn't necessarily want to follow this suggested list, but from talking to her, it sounded like it was "fostered" onto her. I don't know what the steps look like since I joined a long time ago, but it sounds like for a newbie you are pretty much going to auto follow these people - Stephen Pickering
I have more friends/followers on Friendfeed than I do on any other site - Joe Dawson
the followers picked up from SUL are folks who are getting started -- it's like the old PCH magazine subs: renewals and engagemt were horrible but the audience inflation paid back in ad dollars. The social web is about "finding" an audience, just like the old days before you could use web clout to open the spigot and drive a massive audience. The SUL is a Web 1.0 artifact, like cutting... more... - Dan McCarthy from BuddyFeed
Robert, et al: There was some important information shared in this thread yesterday, and I've put a lot of it together in a post for Twittercism, focusing on comparisons between the follower counts of Tim, Robert and iJustine. Appreciate your thoughts. Cheers. - Shéa Bennett
isn't 10000 followers on friendfeed just about the same percentage of the community as 600000 on twitter? - Iphigenie
Stephen, you have to unclick the people you don't want to follow in the SUL. - Jason Nunnelley
Great thread. Thanks Robert. - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed
Thanks for sharing - great info Robert!! - Laurie DesAutels
If what you say is true, then the terms need to be changed. As for them not transferring to any other social network, why is that even necessary? There's a great study out there that states 90% of your network will be lurkers anyway. You'll never know that they exist, however, it's still comforting to know they're there.... - Mike Shields
Robert: Now that you mention it, I will tell them about FriendFeed. - Beth Kanter
Robert: I hate it when there's a "food fight" over ideas. Please remember that Twitter is still trying to find a business model. These $100,000 gifts are basically Calacanis "Bucks"... you can't actually buy anything with them except the promise of VC investment. VC investment is simply mortgaging your future. - davem51
Was it wrong with Radio from UserLand had some suggested feeds to follow? No. It was a smart business idea and Adam Curry invested to get more readers. Smart attempt to save Userland from failing. - davem51
I met Tim O'Reilly in 1990 working the O'Reilly booth at Usenix. It was one of the most interesting conversations I have ever had at a conference... Tim knows how to present idea but more importantly he has the biggest ears in tech. He's got an Open Source Mind. - davem51
am i on twittr? - j edmonds
Robert Scoble
Every day I want to learn something new about the Now/New/2010/3.0 Web. Let's learn about microformats today here:
Who has a great example of using microformats? - Robert Scoble
Google search for Microformats: - Robert Scoble
So far the biggest problem with microformats is that most companies only offer 1 way support. They provide one for you, but don't take yours from elsewhere. Details: - Ryan Jones
I'd love to have someone on Building43 to explain them. Anyone game? - Robert Scoble
The Operator Firefox plugin was very useful for testing microformats. Hcard is useful when available. - jho
cork'd is a great example of hreview - we have building them into sites for about two years now - Pat Strader
I would nominate @kevinmarks for this assignment given his work on RichSnippets - Dilip Dand
FriendFeed uses the rel="me" microformat on the services page (e.g. to tag links to my other services. The Google Social Graph API uses these links to find you around the web. - Paul Buchheit
i wrote a recent introduction if anyone is interested i can share, but do not wish to link drop - Pat Strader
Pat: please do share! - Robert Scoble
I'm interested pat - courtney benson
Pat, thanks, it will help I'm sure. - courtney benson
Google Profiles also uses this to guess links that belong to you. - jho
we build in hcard primarily as we deal with a great deal of tourism "directory" type sites - Pat Strader
I'd love to have Tantek or Kevin on Building43 to explain microformats and show how to use them. - Robert Scoble
i made some moo stickers if anyone wants some, let me know, microformats stickers have been hard to find for me! - Pat Strader
Thanks Pat! Basic or not it is more than I knew 5 minutes ago! - Marshall Huwe
dan cederholm used them years ago with cork'd - hreview - Pat Strader
Pat - problem with that URL please resend tks - courtney benson
marshall no problem, im very excited about them, just needs more evangelists - Pat Strader
Scoble, besides Building43 ;) What is a great website to keep on top of the 2010 Web? Are there any web resources that you're particularly fond of? My favorites are Mashable, Read Write Web, and TechCrunch. - Sam Houston
courtney - try this - Pat Strader
tks, I'll try now - courtney benson
Sam: Stack Overflow, but that's more aimed at programmers. Hacker News. And then there's a ton of people I follow. I put the best ones at - Robert Scoble
Cool, thanks Robert! :) - Sam Houston
If someone wants to set up a local (SV) meetup, I'd be there. Trying to digest as much as I can since format adoption appears inevitable. - Rick Bucich
Calais 2.0 showing some potential ... Calais 2.0 unveiled by Thomson Reuters - Willi Schroll
here's something about iPhone you may not have thought of: - Patricia
i think with google now saying they will use them in some capacity will increase the adoption rate for developers - Pat Strader
Rick, Tantek had a #microformats meetup going for a while. Check out the microformats site. - jho
Brian Suda's book is a good read for those so inclined - Pat Strader
Pat, you've given me enough info to be dangerous. As a sales and mkt person that has a lot of potential for "true geektacular" - courtney benson
courtney great, glad you got something from it - Pat Strader
its pretty exciting stuff - Pat Strader
if you want a couple sheets of the moostickers, just let me know...i printed 900 for blogpotomac, but they didnt arrive in time to take them.... - Pat Strader
if only eventful etc crawled for hcalendar... - Pat Strader
Thanks Jauder! - Rick Bucich
The question I have about microformats is "how do you know you need them?" I know when I need to use DIV's or when I need some JavaScript but I'm still not along to the place where I know all the places I need microformats. - Robert Scoble
I'd rather see HTML change to be separated into a set of semantic elements and organizational elements, then CSS adapt to work better with that separation, way more than I'd like to see microformats try and do this same thing through hackery of CSS. - xero
robert i simply started wrapping any address, or review or event as a part of workflow - Pat Strader
I'd love to come and explain microformats for your audience, Robert - Kevin Marks
There's the 4th Birthday party this Friday - maybe Robert could do a video or 2 from there. - Debi Jones
Kevin, I see you're attending the July 18 event anything sooner? - Rick Bucich
the point of microformats is to give common ways for people to express things on the web that are used a lot, like addresses, reviews, tags and events. They do this using standard HTML. - Kevin Marks
that would be a great event - Pat Strader
Robert, we can chat about them at the SFAMA meetin on thursday - I think it fits into the panel's cope too. - Kevin Marks
Kevin: yeah, let's do that. I'd love to take advantage of your free time before you get totally crazy busy with some hot startup. - Robert Scoble
I loved melody piece on And I've been using it all day - Zachary Adam Cohen
How would someone find out who has adopted the format? i.e. review sites using hReview. I know of Yelp but also notice that Insiderpages is being pulled into Google & Yahoo Local. - Rick Bucich
rick thats a great question, i have tried to find out who might be looking for them myself - Pat Strader
Rick, Pat use the Operator plugin. - jho
yes, i have it use it quite a bit, i was trying to find places that might be going out and looking for them, not necessarily implementing - Pat Strader
i use both operator and tails plugins are there others? - Pat Strader
It doesn't appear that Operator supports hReview, am I correct? I'll check out Tails - Rick Bucich
What is something simple I can do to incorporate microformats into my blog? - Robert Scoble
start using them? - Tyler Gillies
This guy seems to be exceptionally authoritative on microformats or "microstructures" as he calls them: @luebken on Twitter and his blog,, has a great post on "Overview of microstructures in use". - Mike Elliott
the simplest thing to do, Robert, would be to make your contact info in the sidebar into an hCard; you're already mostly supporting hAtom from your template - Kevin Marks
Is this like one of those CGI voting scripts on a website? A widget? You could make it be reviews of each of your videos, Robert. Why put up contact info to the masses? Reviews makes sense. - Prokofy Neva
I have not looked much at hReview but this shows a hcard mockup (do view source) You should be able to use this right away after substituting your info. I did notice that Google does extract this into their excerpt for search results. - jho
another example site is linkedin using hresume and there is a wordpress plugin (not sure what platform is needed) - Mike Chelen
A List Apart blog just posted a good article about RDFa, which you could use for semantic markup when a microformat isn't necessary or doesn't exist: - Chip Ramsey
The future of microformats: the direction I think it should take: Ultra-minimal; minimum tag clutter. - Sean McBride
Robert, Kevin, please hook up with @marksilva before Thursday to discuss SFAMA panel. @scobleizer @kevinmarks - Mark Evans
1st Attempt
Show all
Someone just has to be a show off, don't they - Bryce Roney
WIN - Josh Haley
Yup - Josh Haley
iPhone in the cab? - Josh Haley
Dammit Guys, Chris has caught on to our plot. - Brent - Yes I am
That avatar is EPIC - Bwana ☠
Show off... :) - Simon Wicks
Modern ASCII art! :-) - Robert Scoble
I am soooo glad this franimal is kept behind bars! - ianf ⌘
How is everyone doing this? - David Cook
francois gossieaux
ugh...what is it that drives people to such brutality against unarmed bystanders - this from Shiraz (via Huffpost)
ugh...what is it that drives people to such brutality against unarmed bystanders - this from Shiraz (via Huffpost)
Chris Anderson
One woman, alone in the dark on a rooftop in Tehran, touches the world #iranelection
One woman, alone in the dark on a rooftop in Tehran, touches the world #iranelection
Eugene Lazutkin
Actually pidgin (and others) can be revived by replacing in yahoo service settings with, don't mess w/DNS.
Christopher Sacca | Don’t hand in a Garbage Paper, send a Corrupted File Instead! - | Don’t hand in a Garbage Paper, send a Corrupted File Instead!
This is amazing. "Step 1: After purchasing a file, rename the file e.g. Mike_Final-Paper. Step 2: Email the file to your professor along with your "here's my assignment" email. Step 3: It will take your professor several hours if not days to notice your file is "unfortunately" corrupted. Use the time this website just bought you wisely and finish that paper!!!" - Christopher Sacca from Bookmarklet
*horrified admiration* - Andrew C (✔)
That's genius. - EricaJoy
What the hell, dude? Didn't you see it says "Keep this site a Secret!" in big letters at the top of the page? You're ruining it for everyone! - Gabe
damn good. - Thomas Hawk
SMART. Would have been useful to me about a year ago. :) A lot of my professors actually wanted paper copies, though, so maybe not. - Shawn Farner
I want to have been born in the 80's or 90's. You kids get great excuses like this, instead of going to bars and begging friends to introduce you to people... God, I sound like an old man now :) - Joel Webber
I actually did this once when I was on my high school paper. I took a 3.5" floppy (yeah, this was 1990) opened the protective metal sleeve and put fingerprints on the disk surface. That didn't work, so I smudged it harder and repeatedly. No dice. I ended up having to score it rather deeply with a ballpoint pen before the disk wouldn't mount. It would have been easier to just finish the story. - Kevin Fox
@kevin That's awesome. I have always underestimated you, clearly. Hahahaha. - Christopher Sacca
I used to pull this trick all the time, same as Kevin with "corrupted" discs. Mine were the 5" floppies though. - Anika
Wow, back in the days of floppies, my hs teachers always and only wanted paper copies. - Andrew C (✔)
No, Andrew, we had to turn in the paper, but the point for me of bringing in the floppy was to "show" them where the paper was. I'd get excused to go to the library to try to print it out. In that time, I'd usually just write the paper. - Anika
Ah. I'm not nearly a fast enough writer for a plan like that. - Andrew C (✔)
Of course, professors will learn this trick pretty quickly. - John (bird whisperer)
Dan Hsiao
"Turns outs, the chubby little Boy Scout is Asian American and he’s actually voiced by an Asian American. It’s an outrageous concept, but it might just work. (That was a note for the people over at the Avatar movie.) The voice is by first time actor, Jordan Nagai. He got lucky after one casting call. Good for him." -
"Turns outs, the chubby little Boy Scout is Asian American and he’s actually voiced by an Asian American. It’s an outrageous concept, but it might just work. (That was a note for the people over at the Avatar movie.) The voice is by first time actor, Jordan Nagai. He got lucky after one casting call. Good for him."
Asian people playing Asian people? Heresy! - Brian Chang
But he's not actually chubby. Is that unfair to chubby voice actors? - Paul Buchheit
Ever see The Conqueror? John Wayne playing a Mongol. It doesn't get better than that! - Keith Bourgoin
I also like that it's a boy playing a boy. Not trying to be sexist, but I don't think I've gotten over the fact that Bart Simpson's voice is done by a woman. - Dan Hsiao
A post-pubescent Bart ... shudder - Christopher Chung
How about the Dragonball movie? - Mick Crawford
speaking of the woman who is Bart's voice, Jordan got to be in an episode of The Simpsons! - Emily
oh man, i loved this movie. - Christine
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