PREDICTION: The problem FriendFeed will have is when it will be very popular (mainstream if you want), there will be so much content that you won't be able to see eevrything. A page refresh and tons of content is published. We will for sure miss tons of good stuff.
a page shows say, 30 entries, between two refreshes, say there's 2000 new entries by friends and friends of friends... you see what I mean?
- directeur
from NoiseRiver
We need some way to lens ACROSS content, to view things based on value / ranking / medium, etc. Already there's more content in even my shallow feed than I can comfortably follow, and few of my friends even use FF.
- Alexander Williams
from NoiseRiver
I expect we'll see more than you realize. Likes and Comments keep stuff bouncing to the top until you get a chance to see it.
- Hutch Carpenter
I'm liking and commenting just to bounce ya twice. ;)
- Internet's Tad
Best guess is that hyper growth is already being foreseen with numerous solutions. These guys are good!
- Charlie Anzman
only if you subscribe to everybody under the sun. I'm sure scoble aleady has that problem here and on twitter
- Brett Kelly
Block and Hide aren't nearly good enough for the things I want to do when updates hit several tens per second. I, really, want things like Boolean filters of near arbitrary complexity, feedback learning, and flexible presentation ranking, just to stay sane.
- Alexander Williams
from NoiseRiver
I'm telling you guys - Lindsay totally pegged it. FF is the site that just DEMANDS an Intelligent Agent to sift through the volcanic soil to expose the rough diamonds. If the FF devs have half a brain, they have a genius or two slaving away on that right now.
- Internet's Tad
I agree, lots of stuff falls through the cracks through out the day. I think the 'best of' was added for this reason. I haven't really used it that much though.
- Tsega Dinka
but all the good stuff is reshared... personally my eyes are trained to scan content quickly and efficiently. it weeds out what i'm interested in and not. if all else fails, there's always the "BLOCK" or "HIDE" options...
- Mona Nomura
Resharing is data-cluttering, as I see it. I want a system that unifies references to URLs, for one. It tells me where that reference is made from (Rooms, friends, likes, whatnot), but only gives me a single thing to look out for any given referent. The actual rest of info is just useful metadata for building lenses out of.
- Alexander Williams
from NoiseRiver
You ask the wrong question with your prediction my multi-lingual friend -- the question is not whether we will see too much, but whether we will see enough? FriendFeed (with or without NoiseRiver) is an extremely good model for seeing "enough". NoiseRiver will allow the "noise lovers" to see even more :-)
- Robert Seidman
As more people join, simply being good at managing who you follow will be more important and should keep the noise down.
- Martin Bryant
Surely people like Robert Scoble are already at that level, he manages fine!
- Joe Dawson
Especially if one uses small screens and apps like twhirl to view the feed...
- Henk de Kruyff
from twhirl
We'll just need a CloseFriendFinder app to sit on top of FriendFinder
- Craig Thomler
I don't see the problem if there is the right method to represent the contnet, in a away that the fruition of it by the user would be easier...
- Edoardo Piccolotto
from twhirl
Yes. There is the potential for much more clutter here than twitter, for example. FF needs enhanced filtering tools.
- Ian Fogg
It's already happening for me. Need tags. Plus likes and comments only go so far. What if I like stuff only a few others like? How do I find that?
- Larry Huffman
if more of my friends were on FF I wouldn't be subscribed to so many people I don't know
- Samuel Bostock
the average user isn't going to be subscribed to that many people. and the mainstream will be much less "active" in terms of generating content than the hardcore early adopters. In short, I don't buy the argument.
- Jamie
The average user doesn't use the majority of features present on mobile phones. In Portugal owning a expensive phone is a status statement, but most of them could use the cheapest mobile in term of features used. With software and web services it's the same, people use just a subset of the features, and they have to be in front of them. Power users and all it's likes and dislikes are useful to test the limits of a application, but besides that are not the voice of God.
- Mário Pires
This is where the top posts of the day/week/month will come into play. I sure that someone will comment or like a post before it flits away. It does bear consideration though, put some brakes on the speed of posting perhaps?
- Mathew A. Koeneker
from fftogo
Maybe a combo of FriendFeed and Digg? people could set to only receive posts with X number of likes/comments...or based on the rep of the person posting...
- Craig Thomler
If i could create "groups" of people by subjects relevant to me perhaps it would be more manageable.
- Mário Pires
so there will be meta services (think summize). Cool. no problemo.
- john conroy
Just look at the Everyone feed. Only imagine articles with 1,000 likes (ala Digg) and 500 comments (ala slashdot). Some people may want the raw feeds, we'll need new filters/views/trails/signposts/guides/topics etc...
- Mitchell Tsai
I have the feeling that the FF staff will roll with the punches. Scalability!
- Steve Isaacs
@Robert Scoble: you WON'T be able to manage that noise. It's simply a mathematical fact. Say, you see 30 post, and between two refreshes, 20.000 entries are posted. The next page will show the last 30 of these 20.000 new entries. You will miss the entries in between. Liking or commenting from FOAF won't help. Because the flow will run... fast.
- directeur
from NoiseRiver
Prescient in Twitter's case. For awhile it was so for FF too. I don't know about now however; things are slower.
- Maxamad
Hi, mohomed! That's so old, how did you find it? :)
- directeur
I was looking for a post with an mp3 attached to it from awhile ago that I needed, but couldn't find it. It's some soft of new jazz from Turkey. A bald guy with blue was attached as an image holding some sort of instrument. But I stumbled across a bunch of good other old posts.
- Maxamad
I'm definitely NOT a google fanboy (there's only one thing of which I'm a fanboy: Opensource) but seeing people NEGATIVELY criticize other people's initiatives, pisses me off. Stop the blah blah and show the world how to improve things. thxgbye
- directeur
from NoiseRiver Extra!
I haven't noticed this systematic bashing you speak of.
- Cristo
I did, Cristo, or probably I just read between the lines a little too much :) anyway....
- directeur
Any particular subjects or references? Because I admit some skepticism in the Wave department.
- Cristo
well there was many about gmail during the first days and now with wave and for other subjects too. Skepticism is not negative, it's what makes innovation possible. What's negative is criticizing without even knowing what you're talking about IMHO.
- directeur
Well, I'm not sure that's systematic. People tend to express their opinions regardless of whether they have all the information. I'm glad they do, because I like hearing all perspectives.
- Cristo
Well then, mea culpa. I just read too much between the lines :)
- directeur
Well, your opinion is equally valid. :) But both Apple and Microsoft get criticized as much, and maybe more so than Google. The open source community seems to have Google's back more than any other big company.
- Cristo
5D M2 or Med. format digital Hasselblad in my body complete with a wide range of lenses to use by blinking my eye, internal hard drive for storage and USB device to get the photos out of your body and in to your computer for post processing.
- Thomas Hawk
Some sort of ocular implant would be sweet. Also some sort of stomach thing to help filter out the bad stuff.
- Jordan Hofker
If u get built in Evernote integration, heck yeah.
- Roberto Bonini
Also, in TRANSMETROPOLITAN, there is a pill that allows your brain to grow its own cell phone that is controlled by your brain and is connected to your eye and ear.
- Steven Perez
from IM
HELL NO!! I had a hard enough time getting my ears pierced!
- Helen Sventitsky
I'd prefer non-invasive methods, so no implants for me. I would like that always-on, always recording annotating video camera, though.
- Andrew C
Mr. Hawk, you already have a camera in your body. It is called the brain and eyes, the only part that is needed is the ability to convert that data to that which the computer can understand and a means to transfer it. And in fact, you could do all of the post work in your brain, so all that is left is posting to flickr.
- Wizetux
Wisetux has a point: we already have some pretty awesome hardware to begin with. All we need is the software to properly implement these tools. Eyes? Kick the hell out of any camera. Data storage? We only use +/- 10%. So the software needs an upgrade.
- Steven Perez
from IM
The only cybernetic implants that I would accept would be nanites that would help my body stay healthy, and repair anything that was broken. No need for anything else if nothing ever went bad.
- Wizetux
Of course, a strength upgrade or a communication package would be cool.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Steven, that is where the nanites come in.
- Wizetux
If you don't pay your cybernetic utility bill, will they shut your implants off?
- Micah Wittman
If they make it out of organic parts, hwo would they be able to tell once the parts are integrated into your body?
- Steven Perez
from IM
well, any good cyberneticist would make the item run off the energy that the body produces. So yes, if you don't eat, then the implants will shut down...along with the rest of your body.
- Wizetux
I'd need a neural connection for my "deck", so yes ;D </cyberpunk> Would love for something that could do same awesome augmented reality stuff too, but you don't really need an implant for that, just get an eyetap.
- Daniel Bruce
Steven! I am NOT getting one of those weird things from Doctor Who put into my brain when they were in the TV space complex! DO NOT WANT!
- Michael Forian
I'd like a short term memory upgrade (mine doesn't work too well), and I already need hearing aids, so implants (given my propensity to lose small expensive things, side effect of the memory) would be great, but they already have that tech- Nanobots to maintain teeth and body like wizetux mentioned would be fantastic.
- InPerpetualMotion(Gina k)
No implants for me. But I did flirt with an idea to get brass knuckles attached to my hand..but then I would give myself a black eye when I scratch my nose in my sleep... and that would be bad.
- Bwana ☠
Steven, Wizetux, sure, assume the energy supply is a non-issue - it's access to the network that's shut off.
- Micah Wittman
Given the way hackers work, how long do you think it would be, after such implants were implemented, for them to be jailbroken?
- Steven Perez
from IM
Which is why your cybernetic implants need be bittorrent turbo charged.
- Micah Wittman
Hmmm, pirated cybernetic implant upgrade torrents. :)
- Steven Perez
from IM
Steven: oh man. That is the last thing I need is to have wobbly nanites.
- Wizetux
Katie: let me help you reach the necessary geekiness - imagine trying to chase your kid all over the place and call him when he hides. Now imagine your brain outfitted with a locator for your kid and extra strength enhancement to run him down. :)
- Steven Perez
from IM
Wizetux: well, you could always pick up good one from the iTunes store. :D
- Steven Perez
from IM
until the child have the implants put in that block the locator and allows him to be invisible.
- Wizetux
Of course, then he'd have put up with not having any of his implants working, since his mom thoughtfully installed a secret bit of code to disable his implants *and* send her a signal when someone tries to tamper with the code.
- Steven Perez
from IM
Oh, I didn't say what kind. Vision enhancement. Cell regeneration to heal better/faster. And music player/internet connectivity.
- Jandy, ConcertMaven of FF
Hmm, yeah. I would love to carry a music library in my head.
- Steven Perez
from IM
I might consider an head-based iphone
- Jim Hearts FF
I would like to improve my memory, and to be a bit more agile, and built in spellcheck would be nice
- J. Abdul-Qahhar
Yes. I want a HUD for internet reading (this includes voice and facial tic control), one camera eye, and an RFID chip so wouldn't have to carry anything.
- Anika
No, Thanks! :) @Mo: You already have them! :)
- directeur
No, unless without them I would die shortly. Even then, probably not.
- Amber, Random Time Lord
Personally I'm working towards functional wearable computer modules to begin with, but I'm certainly not against cyborging it up.
- Daniel Bruce
Everything. Anything. Whatever you got. Hell, I'll be one of the pioneering uploads or full-body replacements if you've got it. Why should something like organic squishy bits hold me back?
- Alexander Williams
Yes - replace the "broken" and "failing" parts :) (Hearing loss, dental issues... bring it!!)
- Susan Beebe
the part about fairness doctrine pisses me off beyond belief. I wanted to so badly to sound the warning bell on this, and I wasn't allowed to. *grr*.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
You have the right to speak, not the right to be heard.
- Craig Eddy
Craig - Messing with anyones right to speak via, radio, internet, TV, Print media or anything else for that matter is a direct violation of the 1st Amendment, "The Gov. shall make NO law abridging the freedom of speech", exactly what is it about that that you do not understand?
- Brian
The thing about cries for "fairness" is that if anyone really wanted to listen to the left end of the spectrum, Air America would be doing far better than it is. Shutting down Rush Limbaugh is not going to help the crew at Air America, nor will it suddenly help liberal talk radio to flourish.
- Joey Gibson
Brian: you mistake me for someone who supports the unFairness Doctrine. I do not. You have the right to speak, but no one has the right to force me to listen to you (i.e., you're being heard). Peter quoted the line "but we also want to makes sure those alternative views are read, heard and seen online" and that's what I was responding to.
- Craig Eddy
@Craig - I get what your point now & definetely agree with you in that context.
- Brian
from BuddyFeed
i can't believe that senator stabenow from my state is pushing for this as well. i wonder if there was good liberal talk radio would people listen? Or is the problem that liberals don't listen to talk radio? Or what?
- Jonathan Jesse
@Peter I wonder if it because so much of the media is already telling them what they believe, CNN, MSNBC, non-cable news,etc that a liberal talk radio show would just repeate what they already know?
- Jonathan Jesse
It's official, Dems are pushing their first efforts in the Senate voting on a diversity in Ownership law. Censorship has begun!
- Brian
Ok, the time has come... @directeur what did you use to write this? The complete details... is this a Google App? PHP or RoR? DB's... did you use Balsamiq to wireframe it? :D
I'd like to explain something about SocialWhois, (and I think that I'll end by writing a blog post about it) but meanwhile, what I wanted to say is that: SocialWhois is really about everything but popularity.
If you define socialmedia Like Loïc once asked for twitter-authority by followership, then SocialWhois is not for you. There's really more to see and to learn by following people who share your interests than following people just because they're popular. Now some popular people are really worth attention but it still depends on what YOU, are looking for. t'was my humble opinion :)
- directeur
I think it makes a great profile page. It is simple and to the point. I dig it just for that.
- Amber, Random Time Lord
I think this is what Google was trying to accomplish with Google profiles, but I think this is much better, since it's actually social and not just a page of info about someone.
- April Russo (app103)
"And you know, when one of the most influential game writers in the industry makes this mistake, and essentially writes a piece on “Why is World of Warcraft Like World of Warcraft?”, I think we have a problem bigger then aggro management. Statistically speaking."
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Another social media consultant in the making.
- Chris Baskind
@ed completely agree; I just haven't found a personal acceptance of using the "like" on negative links or stories. I don't "like" them; I've "noted" them.
- Lou Paglia
One day I started "liking" negative stories without even apologizing for it or explaining myself.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
I have heard the exact same thing when looking for a job. I tried to work in grocery stores, Walmart, etc. and no one would hire me. Miserable experience, made me consider lying on applications.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
@Tina - Since resumes usually feature "relevant experience" I can see a semi-ethical case for leaving higher ed off of your resume for this kind of work. On the other hand you can't excuse an omission on a job application quite as simply.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
He should omit portions of his resume that make him overqualified. It's Walmart anyway. Unless it's a managerial position, don't they only need to know that you went to high school?
- Morton Fox
I pretty much do the same thing, Daniel. My resume gets crafted to highlight experiences that fit the job I'm applying for. But when you outline your work history, software developer and corporate customer service trainer won't get your foot in the door to be a cashier =/
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
And just to clarify: clerk and cashier jobs? They don't take a resume: you just fill out a pre-printed application.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
sounds like it's time to write a book.
- Brian Ries
A janitor at my highschool once told me that he left things off his resume to get the job. (I worked on the computers and network, so I often saw the janitors and got to talk to them). Before, he was an investment banker and then a computer guy, but wanted a peaceful job after he retired. A school district thought he was overqualified and wouldn't stick around, so he changed his resume...
more...
- Jordan Hofker
I have never understood that concept. That doesn't mean they have to pay him more for the position. Give him the same pay and give him the job. I don't get it, are they afraid he will actually be good at it?
- Sloan Bowman
The problem with overqualified employees is the nagging fear that they're just settling for your position and will bolt the instant a "real" job becomes available. Hiring managers would rather hire & train someone with a reasonable expectation of staying on for a while.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
@Daniel You have a very valid point there. Sad but true Would you stay at Walmart if you had an opportunity come up? I know I wouldn't
- Sloan Bowman
If you play Candle in the Wind backwards, it basically says the same thing. Great job, there!
- Josh Haley
I'd like to the know the story behind the music ;)
- Michael W. May
I wrote it for my friend Meghan. We have conversations like this just about all the time.
- Mattie Kenny
There needs to be video evidence of these conversations, methinks.
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
not sure how i missed this.....but, thanks to the handywork of the ffundercats (and you, of course), i can't stop singing this. correction: i can't stop randomly *singing* "boooooooobs". : )
- carlotta fancypants
Wow. I was definitely not expecting people to actually *like* my song.
- Mattie Kenny
Actually there is a nice pic one FF of a t-shirt that says I Love Boobs! Search for it!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
hahaha. If someone wants to hold the camera, maybe I will. Actually, I foresee way too many "ugly, fat slut" comments if this went truly viral.
- Mattie Kenny
Chris, under no circumstances can I ever be considered a Dane Cook fan. Ew.
- Mattie Kenny
Igor - I don't see how singing a song TO A GIRL about BOOBS is going to pick up a guy and no, I am not "on the prowl". Especially since this video was made 3 months ago and was bumped by someone.
- Mattie Kenny
GET THEE BEHIND ME, SPARKY!.........(wait, that's not how i meant it....forget i said that....)
- Live4Emma (L4S)
@igor...what do you mean "Mona"? Mona N? I think we're having a spat...over BASKETBALL of all things....she's threatened divorce...i'm broken up about it... *leh sigh*
- Live4Emma (L4S)
I am going to go get it now (legally of course) and install it under VMWare. Now you have me curious.
- Chris
Windows? Aren't they those things with glass panes in them? ;)
- Tyson Key
Andy: it brings nothing new to the table. Windows has been the same since Windows 2000. What you're buying is eyecandy.
- Rutger Blom
Rutger, curious. Are you a Windows user? What do you use? XP, Vista?
- Kamath (नमः)
@Rutger - first off I am not buying it (I'm MSDN). Secondly there is no way you can say it's been the same since Win2k.. that's absurd. What about MediaCenter? The thing is an entertainment juggernaut. you sound like a linux fanboy :)
- andy brudtkuhl
Wow, more infantile whining about Vista. And now a petulant little temper tantrum demanding Windows 7 for free? I can almost hear them snorting and stomping their little feet. People, even adults, are still spoiled little brats, aren't they?
- Akiva Moskovitz
Those that whine the most about Vista and demand free Win7 have probably never even tried or paid for it, anyway...
- Jemm
Uh and inded huh. That's a crazy notion. The reason it's crazy is that if they did do that then they would never be able to charge for subsequent versions of Windows again. So in the long run they'd lose. They should, however, ditch all of this nonsense with various versions and strains of the OS. It just makes a big ol' mess.
- Tadhg Kelly
from twhirl
I can't agree with this. It's a pay product, everyone knows it. Vista is fully functional as well, even if the general impression is bad.
- Eric @ CS Techcast
I use vista at work and it is just so poorly built. The 2003 AD tools don't install without having to run a script to finish off the installer, and even then many of them still don't work (DHCP admin for example). The explorer shell is a travesty (I lay a big dose of blame on indexing services), the interface for common things like share and NTFS permissions is a mountain of windows when one should do and the networking performance is piss poor for basic file management!
- alphaxion
don't you understand, everything *must* be free. Business model? <mumble> <mumble> something about advertising <mumble> <mumble> Profit!
- mikepk
win7 is looking like a point release. Should be free to those with the applicable license (where upgrades are free, such as enterprise VLA). However, it should be a massively reduced price for those with a full copy of windows and a legit license.
- alphaxion
@milepk taking business lessons from the underpants gnomes again? ;)
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
I upgraded a Vista machine here yesterday. It went without a hitch (took three hours or so). Everything seems to work ok so far. However, I am quite underwhelmed. It seems, perhaps, slightly faster but except for the visual changes to the task bar, I can quite forget I'm using it, instead of Vista.
- Ian May
I'm using XP at work. I've tried Vista and in a corporate network environment it's a disaster. Microsoft more or less admits Vista was a flop and now is in a hurry to hype Windows 7 and make everybody forget about Vista. Windows 7 is at its best what Vista should have been. I think it stinks. By the way, I whine as much as I want to. It's called freedom of speech. Amen.
- Rutger Blom
Rutger, it'd be better if your whining was actually based in facts and logic
- Akiva Moskovitz
It is consumer unfriendly. An OS should not take more than an hour to figure out and should not have to be set up or customized.
- Mona Nomura
Akiva, it is in my world. Facts and logic you won't find much of here. Opinions and experience plenty.
- Rutger Blom
oh hell, this conversation again. can't we drop this. nobody is going to change their mind and you can't convince people the error of their ways no matter how hard you try. people can't listen to reason and refuse to believe anything other then what they believe. it's a exercise in futility to keep rehashing this over and over.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
Then why do you keep participating and reading, Jason? You posted a comment earlier. Bizarre. @DSaad - that said, shouldn't Win 7 be free?
- Mona Nomura
Hey - aren't we all, Jason? Aren't we all. ;)
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Interesting thread. @Rutger. Do you have any idea of the underlying changes that were made in Vista? It is a vastly superior operating system to previous versions. Unfortunately the UI lets it down. And @Mona, one of my favorite things about a new install of any OS (Mac OS included) is spending time customizing it and installing my favorite apps. Maybe I'm just a geek that way. I'd stop buying/using it if I couldn't endlessly customize it.
- Kenton
I find it interesting that the interface for manipulating the NTFS metadata streams for things like Keywords, Author and Comments that's been in since Windows 2000 or so has actually been removed from Windows Vista. So much for supposedly having "enhanced metadata support".
- Tyson Key
@akiva thing is, rutger is right when he's saying it's a flop in a corporate domain, the fact that their own AD management tools are borked in their latest OS is inexcusable! And as I said, something simple such as changing share and NTFS permissions is an act of annoyance as you have to traverse edit windows instead of being able to modify them from that one window!
- alphaxion
Aside from the technicalities, like I said above: It is consumer unfriendly. An OS should not take more than an hour to figure out and should not have to be set up or customized. - You (edit | delete). Thus, Windows 7 upgrade should be free.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
I agree with everybody who says Vista wasn't all that it could have been. But it was far from botched. If it was measure from the perspective of getting converts from Mac/Linux, it failed. But it worked well enough for current windows users. An enormous amount of work went into the innards with very little and poorly directed focus on the usability. Win7 goes the other way - usability and performance is a focus. Try Win7, give it a fair chance. It's excellent as an OS.
- Kamath (नमः)
And THAT is why it should be free, Kamath LOL
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Mona, I totally agree. Wasn't arguing about that part :). It is to Windows Vista what Snow Leopard is to Leopard - though the degree is different.
- Kamath (नमः)
But in the process of re-engineering the NT kernal for things such as network presentation etc they buggered up the network stack. Set off a file transfer from one machine to another across a network comprising of 2000 small files and I'll bet you that the XP one will complete it quicker than vista. They screwed up the explorer shell, why does it take a minute to contemplate displaying its contents? Basic requirements that are borked.
- alphaxion
I'm all for it being free to current Vista users. It would be a good reward for Beta testing. However I also think OS X updates should be free until 11 comes out.
- Kenton
alphaxion, that bugs me too especially over wifi connections. If I remember correctly, I believe Microsoft's explanation was that it increases the fail-safety of network transfers if there were network failures during the transfers. It would still fail (time out) during longer network failures but large transfers would not be aborted due to momentary network failures.
- Kamath (नमः)
it's also partly because of the packet size since it was incorrectly determining jumbo settings and a little bit of the peering protocol (network discovery, attempt at replacing WINS for CIFS, tho they still had to copp out by altering DNS for wins-like static entries and of course they still haven't fixed the issue of needing WINS for trust relationships in 2008 *rolls eyes*)
- alphaxion
alphaxion, I believe they did work on network transfer performance in Windows 7. I don't know if anybody has done any benchmarks with real numbers. An unscientific benchmark was done by zdnet which seems to show dramatic improvements in performance. http://is.gd/eqTP. There are issues with other OSes too. I understand this bothers you as it does me but there are so many other usability+perf improvements that i don't let this bother me too much.
- Kamath (नमः)
I've said it before, they should price it like Apple does Mac OS X upgrades. Full retail version of Windows 7 Ultimate should be no more than $120.
- Bwana ☠
Won't be a problem. I'll just order a ticket to the launch event, as usual :)
- Mirco
I don´t know about "free", but I must agree a bit with some of you in that I have lost most of my confidence in MS after the Vista disaster (mostly for MS themselves), the Mojave "experiment", and now the fixer-upper approach on 7. It may all just be a feeling I sit back with, but whether it´s true or not that´s a very real problem for MS´s marketing and UX departments.
- Thomas Bøhm
The biggest problem (or the reason for problems) about Longhorn/Vista was project management and processes. They were forced to do the "Longhorn reset", start over from scratch after 2.5 years. That's one reason it lost many promised features and lot of development/fine tuning time. Instead of the Longhorn, they did Vista as a basis for future OSs, like the Windows 7. Fortunately processes were changed a lot, too.
- Jemm
bwhahahahahaahah give it away? keep dreaming, people.
- Terry O'Fee
we sadly do not live in a world where the big companies think. "you know, i feel really really bad. let's give the next one away". Microsoft does not equal Trent Reznor.
- Terry O'Fee
Then why was Steven Sinofsky (Win 7 dev chief) quoted to say: "Technically if you have a Vista machine you can install this and it will install an upgrade. That's part of what we're letting people test. But that's not a product offering. This is an offer to test the product. I would remind readers that this is a beta product. This is not a done product. That means there are bugs in it...
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- Mona Nomura
from IM
They could have done a free upgrade to make up for the fact they lost some trust etc..look at the IE haters lol.. and maybe had a deal where they got feedback...say a form that users filled in once a week... if not filled in, then they could probably disable it or somthing untill form sent. ;o) Imagine how much they could improve that as they went with the amount of feedback.
- Rob Sellen :o)
microsoft do not owe us anything. they fucked up, granted, and vista was a mistake. they are seeing that with their "vista ready" shitfight. but let's be honest. this isn't some simple upgrade to vista, or a newer version of XP. this is a brand new operating system, of course they're going to pay. if they said "we've fixed vista and we're going to charge you 100 dollars for the privilage", i'd be pissed off.
- Terry O'Fee
because "this is a test". it's not the full program. it's hardly completed. but really, if you're into that whole "everything should be free" ideal, look at ubuntu. i still have hope they can get their act together and get a decent OS running that will make MS pee themselves a little. :P
- Terry O'Fee
I'm going to "like" this cause it's so funny..
- Terry O'Fee
??? We're not saying everythign should be free (at least I'm not). Look, if a consumer targeted OS takes more than an hour to learn PLUS people have to customize in order to efficiently function? No, that is a defunct product and it is NOT ok. Why do you think MSFT was giving out XP FREE to users that bought new computers and didn't want Vista? Fact: Vista is a mess. And Microsoft owes the paying customers a functional product - Windows 7.
- Mona Nomura
If you want free upgrades, Linux distros such as Ubuntu or Mandriva might be good.
- Rishabh Mishra (p248)
WHY did they do Vista then? what was the aim over xp? I haven't used vista so dont have a VALID opnion on it.. I mentioned the free comment above in realtion to the vista users mainly.. :o) I wouldn't expect it free, though I wouldn't complain if it was... :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
@Mona .. they obviously didn't read my post on that idea did they LOL :)
- Steven Hodson
why did they do vista? cause they're money grabbing bastards, thats why. im still using XP myself. i'd be making a post more on "vista - i want my money back!"
- Terry O'Fee
they should offer cheaper upgrades for vista, if possible. i grant you that.
- Terry O'Fee
If a consumer purchased a new computer within the last year or so, they also purchased a MSFT license for a crappy unintuitive RAM hog. WHY should they pay? Makes no sense.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
I know it's not fair Mona, but lets be honest - when have MS ever given anything away? If you don't like it, you can always go to Apple, which products are twice the price or a linux install and hope there's not too much of a headache to set it up....
- Terry O'Fee
I don't agree. If a consumer bought a new computer within the last year or so, they should be able to run Vista just fine. The early performance complaints of Vista were from older computers.
- Alan Le
So that's how you treat consumers? Especially in an unstable market where Apples are becoming more widely used? Don't like us? F*ck off? I don't know about you, but as a long time Windows user now Mac convert, I'd like to see Windows succeed.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Maybe this is the difference between Apple and Microsoft, Mona. Apple released OS X 10.1 as a free upgrade from 10.0 (which was arguably worse than Vista). We're in a different situation though. Everybody is cutting costs left and right (including Microsoft) and no matter what they did last year, THIS year is different. I expect very little "free" anything this year. It'd be a stretch for Microsoft to do this in a good year, but it's even more a stretch to even think about it this year.
- Bwana ☠
If MSFT has the $$$ to throw away resources on applications that have been hybernating (play ready ring a bell? what's going on with "pink"?) They sure as heck should have the funds to service their clients. I played with a Vista machine for the first time a few weeks ago and was utterly appalled. That said, I am excited for Windows 7 CTP
- Mona Nomura
from IM
that's what im trying to say. i'm no big fan of the MS either (despite me using it) but didn't MS just lay people off as well? Good intentions aren't going to pay the bills.
- Terry O'Fee
Those are 2008 funds... 2009 has different budgets
- Bwana ☠
Oh and you will see those "throw away" resources dwindle
- Bwana ☠
If you want free, go Linux or use them trendy torrent sites. Microsoft doesn't owe anybody a new product just because customers had a gripe about their old product.
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
Bwana - also Apple sell the OS and the computer to go with it. MS don't sell the PCs (yet - actually no. I don't want the red ring of death on a PC too :P)
- Terry O'Fee
Look, I see where you're coming from Bwana but I highly disagre. MSFT is going more and more downhill and is this a smart business move for them? You have to spend money to make money and we've been under the MSFT reign for so long, they were free to do whatever the EF they wanted. Average consumers don't have the time nor the resources to install free open source OSs nor do they want...
more...
- Mona Nomura
from IM
all a free upgrade will do is get reports in the tech blogs. you really think word of mouth is going to spread to the average user who is looking for a new computer?
- Terry O'Fee
It'll be cheap anyway if they are going on Netbooks. Or vendors will make it cheap by installing crapware.
- Rodfather
So if consumers get free upgrades, what about businesses? That's a huge piece of the pie. I agree with your reasoning Mona, but I simply don't think it's going to happen.
- Bwana ☠
I don't know about free upgrade, but it needs to be cheaper for Vista users as there aren't many features in Windows 7 compared to Vista. Performance is better but that's what it should have been with Vista.
- Vaibhav
What about existing customers who are stuck with a crap OS? I am not around techies all day and there are a lot of people that can't even hook up their computer to WiFi - or have major issues when troubleshooting. I mean look at that frickin' UX! On top of that, it's slow! Hey for all you people that know and love Vista? I commend you all but usability is number one and Vista is a nightmare.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
@Mona Who said Microsoft is going downhill? I'm not sure what you use to gauge company health, but 60B in revenue and a 30% profit margin seem like they'd contradict the thought that we're a struggling company. http://finance.yahoo.com/q...
- Paul Whitaker
You said it at the beginning, it's about principle, and principle ain't gonna sway the accountants. Reality :/
- Bwana ☠
Proof right there they should give Vista away for free TO EXISTING CUSTOMERS FOR AN UPGRADE.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
For those who bought Vista Business, they already have XP disks to use. Vista isn't a failure so there shouldn't be compensation. Windows 7 is not a Vista upgrade anyway. At least not marketed that way.
- Rodfather
Mona, you might as well buy a car and then expect a free upgrade when the new model comes out the following year because you didn't like the one you have or couldn't figure out how to drive it properly.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Seriously? You expect the people who made this to not get paid? No revenue? You've gotta weird picture of how the world works.
- Ernie Oporto
It's not unheard of, like I said, Apple did it with OS X 10.0 -> 10.1. I just think there's outside factors that are going to prevent MS from taking this leap.
- Bwana ☠
But for cars and I can customize the way I want to. I can't afford a paddle shift all leather bimmer wiht a sun roof, so I'll settle with a cheaper manual w/ a sunroof option that might be thrown or perhaps go with an automatic with no sun roof. They all drive properly but there are choices. Terrible example, Akiva.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Service packs like Vista SP1 were free. Windows 7 is not a service pack.
- Alan Le
Bwana - it's called customer service LOL
- Mona Nomura
from IM
It might as well be a SP because it's basically the same thing, re-packaged with a few UI tweaks (from what I'm reading)
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Its a good thought, however its not going to happen. It should however be reasonably priced like an Apple upgrade, and there should not be so many different versions perhaps 2 home user and business user.
- Dean Blithe
See, Vista is not a failed product. I've shared articles on my feed listing reasons (consumers can understand) why it is not. However, an OS should not take over an hour to learn and certainly shouldn't require tweaking in order for it to run smooth. Tech savvy people LOVE it. Consumers hate it. So who is Vista really for?
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Mona, basically it appears that you want a free upgrade because you didn't like the Vista experience. That is the same as buying a car and then not liking it and expecting the next generation of the model for free (and I chose a car as an example because it follows a pattern similar to OS releases). You might as well whine to Apple and say that you bought a Mac but you hate the Dock so you expect the next version of OS X for free.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I don't have a MSFT machine anymore and stayed away from Vista - as far away as possible. It is NOT the same as buying a car, since there are HUNDREDS of cars to choose from. How many platforms do we have to choose from? What about the peopel who can't afford Apples? I know many people that have purchased cheap(er) computers with Vista and have nothing but issues because they don't know how to use it. Is it really their fault they purchased a new computer and forced to use Vista?
- Mona Nomura
from IM
So your complaint now isn't with Vista but it's with the fact that OEMs bundle with Vista? Take it up with the OEMs. I mean, last I checked, if you bought an Apple, you only had one choice of OS, too. At least most PC OEMs gave you the option of XP.
- Akiva Moskovitz
LOL!! Ok, Akiva. You win. But that still doesn't change the fact Windows 7 is a pre-packeged Vista with UI tweaks.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Hiding this before I say something mean.
- Paul Whitaker
Yeah and that's no different than Snow Leopard being pre-packaged Leopard with under-the-hood tweaks.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I haven't said anything about Mac or people should get a Mac, omg LOL. All I am saying is, as a general business practice if you sell a flawed product they (MSFT) as a company should take steps to rectify it. They did something that threw everyone off by offering XP down? upgrades? for existing Vista consumers. That right there shows how unhappy people were with the experience. Why NOT offer Windows 7 free to users that already have Vista on their machines newly purchased?
- Mona Nomura
from IM
It is not. Microsoft didn't spend 3 years doing UI tweaks.
- Alan Le
The UX is flawed, Alan... All devs I know LOVE Vista, consumer hate it. :(
- Mona Nomura
Dude, they're still using... Tahoma in the shell. It's painful.
- l0ckergn0me
Mona, I use both OSX and Vista and now Windows 7. For me Windows is more practical for gaming and work. I don't think it's flawed. I however love to use OSX while browsing and to do creative work. I'm not a typical consumer though as you pointed out.
- Alan Le
l0ckergn0me, I thought it as all Segui UI these days.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Definitely should be free (or at least slightly under 20$). This would propel Microsoft ahead immensely.
- Brandon Titus
Microsoft is not ahead and have a monopoly with its OS? tell that the the EU.
- Alan Le
I agree, it should be free or possibly $50 tops. But that wouldn't be the Microsoft way of doing things.
- Sloan Bowman
Vista has worked very well for me in a corporate domain setting. We've only used Vista with new computers though. XP was fine for what we do. Every average user that I have setup with Vista was resistant and hesitant at first because of the bad publicity they heard. Every single one of them have thoroughly enjoyed using Vista and would never go back to XP. Windows 7 thus far for me seems like many modest improvements to Vista which add up to a very good OS. However, it must be a free or under $50 upgrade.
- Jim Bednarz
I can't believe no one has a made a counterpoint thread "Why Windows 7 should cost 3 paychecks"
- Matthew DeVries
@Jim - Agreed, almost everyone who actually USED Vista for more than a week with a bad attitude loves it once they get used to the changes. It is stable, secure, fast and does things that you really really miss when you go back to XP.
- Soulhuntre
Win7's real value is in giving all the pundits and a-listers who are so emotionally invested in Vista floppign a chance to admit they were wrong without having to say they were wrong. They cna go on and on about how good Win7 is and never amdit that the core tech is all Vista baby.
- Soulhuntre
That being said, Win7 does do things nicer than vista and runs equally well on my primary quad core and my Dell Mini9 - which is flat out awesome.
- Soulhuntre
I bet he gave a high five on this article.
- Janet
I think applaud has expanded its definition to a mean "express approval of" so in that sense the headline is "correct". Bit of an unfeeling, unthinking way to use it though.
- Brian Sullivan
Come on you lot... you should know better than to take the piss out of a disabled person.... the guy is clearly armless after all and wont hurt you... ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
They’re able to return to polyp stage due to a cell change in the external screen (Exumbrella), which allows them to bypass death. As far as scientists have been able to find out, this change renders the hydrozoa virtually immortal.
- WiseYoda (aka Patrick)
from Bookmarklet
"A woman in rural Papua New Guinea was bound and gagged, tied to a log and set ablaze on a pile of tires this week, possibly because villagers suspected her of being a witch, police said Thursday."
- Kol Tregaskes
from Bookmarklet
Tweetbacks won't replace trackbacks - but it is a great idea - so much gets tweeted that doesn't make it to your comments section. This is a great tool for integrating - and keeping your blog your "home base" while still loving great tools like Twitter. It is the completion of a great circle. Start the buzz on Twitter track the response with tweetbacks.
- CreativeWisdom
Added it to my blogs and love it! I am having problems with the Most Tweeted.
- Shevonne
Watching the Proud Family, and they made it seem like Muslims fast the entire month of Ramadan.. only they fast during daytime. Random fact. - http://twitter.com/BrookeL...
The skull camera is named “Yama” after the Tibetan god of death and it’s actually made from the skull of a Tibetan monk. It’s gotta be the creepiest looking pinhole camera I have ever seen. Not just the fugliest. A divider that splits it into two lets you see it’s inner view. It comes with a hefty price at $5,000.
- Steven Hodson
from Bookmarklet