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Graham Steel › Comments
"Beyond The Paper" by Jason Priem just out in Nature. Currently pay-walled.
495437a.pdf 1.0 MB
Yo Joe. No, go slow. liked this
John Wilbanks is currently bitching out Nature on Twitter for not OAing his piece.
- RepoRat
I know...
- Graham Steel
midnight gmt or so it's supposed to be fixed. really enjoyed the piece.
- Christina Pikas
After some grumbling on Twitter/Fb, all of http://www.nature.com/news... is now #openaccess
- Graham Steel
Yea!
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
"Quantitative visualization of DNA G-quadruplex structures in human cells" doi:10.1038/nchem.1548 first.lastname@gmail
sent
- Graham Steel
thanx!
- Egon Willighagen
Does anyone have access to this paper?http://www.karger.com/Article... Please send to wstein AT gmx.net Thanks!! Apologies if this is a double post - my own posts don't seem to appear here anymore :(
"Sorry, the page you're looking for does not exist..."
- Graham Steel
oops... edited the link. Sorry about that. http://www.karger.com/Article...
- Wolfgang S
Hmm, Open Athens is "Coming soon!". No access.
- Graham Steel
In which I stop pulling punches with H Morrison (comments): https://plus.google.com/u...
Kubke, Björn Brembs, Bill Hooker and 13 other people liked this
you go, girl
- Meg V. Meg
So her arguments not really making sense isn't just my reading comprehension problem? Good to know.
- kendrak
Why is she being a jerk when you're essentially on the same team?
- Christina Pikas
from iPhone
she's not the only one who does that, PETER MURRAY-RUST and MICHAEL EISEN and STEVAN HARNAD and LI'L RICKY POYNDER. (There, see, they've got ME doing it.)
- RepoRat
She picked her preferred solution to OA, NC-SA licenses, and now uses any argument going - no matter how illogical or weak - to support this chosen solution and criticise CC-BY. At least she doesn't post boilerplate responses, yet.
- Matt Hodgkinson
I've had Christina's question in mind for a while, and I think RR has the answer of sorts (and maybe add Bremb to that list). In Morrison's case, part of me hears a need to be The Authority on OA (with a doctorate on the subject and all). I suspect SK does less harm to OA than its "OA BUT ONLY ON MY TERMS!" advocates. Heather P, good to see you in the Suber camp (as I interpret the route you're taking).
- Walt Crawford
The OA movement does seem to attract a fair bit of almost religious zeal on the part of some of its adherents. I think they all want to be pope of OA. Locking them in the Sistine Chapel and maybe losing the key doesn't seem like a bad idea.
- John Dupuis
And the whole "nobody can charge for anything ever" isn't part of my definition of OA.
- John Dupuis
it feels very empowering to call a trolling comment a trolling comment. I should do this more often.
- Heather Piwowar
John: That last one is particularly interesting. Peter S. and others (e.g., Walt C) have noted for years that it would be both appropriate and interesting for a Gold OA journal to make all refereed articles free and charge for (a) print subscriptions, (b) non-refereed editorial material. I believe Science, for example, would do very well with such a structure. And be in the letter & spirit of OA.
- Walt Crawford
Yup, BMJ has this model I believe. I do think it is a bit too bad... there is lots of great stuff in the magazine section that it would be better if the whole wide world could read.... but people gotta charge for something and the moral/research-progress arguments for magazine content being OA just aren't as strong. (fwiw this is why I was willing to write non-OA content for Nature's magazine section)
- Heather Piwowar
Absolutely. The idea that only a very small number of business models are "pure" is counter productive, especially for non-scholarly content. (ie: http://scienceblogs.com/confess...)
- John Dupuis
Walt, I forgot to mention: yup, I am in the Suber camp on pretty much everything. If I ever find myself not in the Suber camp I reevaluate my position because I am likely wrong :)
- Heather Piwowar
You folks are giving me so many good ideas for fresh material for my late-April OA precon (if enough people sign up for it). Keep it coming. (Sorry: Mild threadjack.)
- Walt Crawford
+1 Heather.
- John Dupuis
HM's comments are head-scratching, that's to be sure. It's like she's arguing that if Elsevier made its content CC-BY and then someone else developed a fee-based commercial product around that content that somehow the original OA content is thereafter compromised or less useful or no longer OA. Am I reading her totally wrong?
- John Dupuis
It's like how some people think gay marriage rights somehow affect the sanctity or validity of existing straight marriages.
- John Dupuis
I think you're reading her right, which is wildly frustrating.
- Walt Crawford
I lost interest in HM when she emailed me this last year:- We chat a lot in public - you are an awesome advocate of open access, if I haven't said so before - but of course I know very little about you. How are you doing? Where are you in your studies? I am assuming that the reason you chose this line of research is because of your brother? I hope that this is not a sore point. Why am I...
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- Graham Steel
It's like a car crash, I can't look away.
- John Dupuis
That, Graham, may be the most patronising e-mail I have seen! Parsing it as '*I* know OA, leave it to me, you do whatever Sciency stuff it is you do'
- Pete #TeamMonique
Yeah, I think you were oaexpertsplained.
- John Dupuis
Wow. Just wow.
- Walt Crawford
I deliberated on 3 options and in the end, chose not to even bother replying.
- Graham Steel
Thanks John. A >>>completely unrelated<<< slowmo car crash video https://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Graham Steel
HM is unexplainable. Does she not understand that the source remains oa and freely available no matter what happens to the downstream revisions and mashups?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Not cool to post private email in public, even when said email is weapons-grade assholery.
- Bill Hooker
I'll hold my fire on Stevan Harnad, and PMR just pisses me off every time he shows up these days (what the fuck is with the stuffed animals? is he losing his marbles?). But Eisen and Brembs are very much part of the solution imo; without a few strong voices on the OA side it's too easy for the SKitchers and allies to slide the Overton Window their way. And how is Richard Poynder a problem??
- Bill Hooker
"Not cool to post private email in public" Agreed and won't do so again, Bill. (Have never done so before but I felt it was appropriate in the context of this thread though).
- Graham Steel
Eisen doesn't often screw this up, but when he does -- as IMO he did with the reaction to the OSTP memo -- he does it big. Brembs is very, very good at pushing organizationally infeasible Big Plans, which makes me (at least) shut right down when he starts up with his "libraries will save us!" crazytalk. Poynder has openly dissed libraries and librarians, taking his cues there from Harnad and PMR.
- RepoRat
@404: I've argued with HM about exactly that. She worries about incentives for the commercial entity doing the enclosing to try to do away with the original, OA, source version. E.g. EvilCo™ Publishers duplicates PubMed Central and then lobbies the US gummint, which is famously and horribly susceptible to such nonsense, to reduce costs by defunding PMC itself. (Not to put words in HM's mouth here, any errors mine etc) (Edit: PubMed Central, not PubMed)
- Bill Hooker
@RR -- ah, mine own ox was not directly gored by RP so I missed that. Mea culpa. Eisen is a good sport, you can yell right back at him (I did, over the OSTP memo, and I am but an egg in his HHMI-funded presence). Brembs can also take it as well as dish it, but I understand if you are just tired of pointing out where ugly facts undermine his beautiful theories about libraries and what they can do in the real world.
- Bill Hooker
Apropos: http://del-fi.org/post...
- Bill Hooker
I'll admit that I'm likely deluding myself as to how much of the potential libraries have, they will be able to realize. However, I find the potential is large enough to warrant unrealistic visions and push for them. And besides, my library now does pretty much exactly what I would dream all libraries should be doing, and so is the entire TU Delft, so it can't be totally out of this...
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- Björn Brembs
Plus, I do feel somewhat sad to find myself on a blacklist set up by people who I thought were on the same team as me... :-)
- Björn Brembs
Oh hey, there's no blacklist, there's just us arguing. It's all good.
- Bill Hooker
@bb I'm quite enjoying the reactions to your recent article -I read a lot of the thoughts on your blog but having them in an article seems to be getting more attention.
- Christina Pikas
from iPhone
What Bill says. There's no blacklist. Well, there is, but only SK is on it.
- Walt Crawford
Bjorn, don't worry you're definitely on my non-black list. I really do appreciate your vision of the role that libraries could play in scholarly communications, even if the path from here to there can be a bit hard to visualize at times.
- John Dupuis
pl send the article to eswaripj@gmail.com
http://scripts.iucr.org/cgi-bin...
no access
- Graham Steel
Sent. Hail to the king. :-)
- Florian Diehl
Looking for a Psychological Science paper (APS journal): http://pss.sagepub.com/content... Please email walter at walterjessen dot com
sent
- Graham Steel
Thanks Graham
- Walter Jessen
RT @researchremix: Awesome: PeerJ computes research $$ saved by choosing @thePeerJ instead of subscription journals. See front page + https://t.co/UkzQ4DLOkQ
Jason - The Opaque, Sir Shuping is just sir, Graham Steel and 3 other people liked this
Are any libraries/universities with OA fee budgets keeping track+publicizing their system "savings"? Sounds like a great thing to brag about, and a great way to reinforce that subscription money is, when it comes down to it, research money.
- Heather Piwowar
I'm not sure if anyone is really publicizing their numbers but it would be interesting to know. There certainly aren't any real "savings" in the system yet. Paying APCs is an added cost to subscriptions/collections budgets and even when some hybrid journals refund the OA fee, that ends up cost-neutral. As for our subscriptions budgets, if our institutions were able to claw that money...
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- John Dupuis
And I did write about this very question: http://scienceblogs.com/confess...
- John Dupuis
could be funders would lower allowable indirects to make sure the money is spent on research. there is leverage.
- Heather Piwowar
You could compare the $$ value of APCs with the $$ value not paid on OA articles (green or gold) cited in researchers' reference lists.
- Deborah Fitchett
There's a library-internal organizational issue as well that John (wisely) skates over a bit: there's a cadre of librarians whose JOB it is to allocate money for info. Just as they have been (with rare exceptions) signally unwilling to reallocate stuff-buying funds to author-side fee funds, they are not going to welcome the idea that their work is evaporating. So they won't want to hear about purported "savings." (I also agree with John that at this point savings are theoretical, not actual.)
- RepoRat
There's one other issue that the OA movement as a whole needs to think harder about: "savings" = "no, really, we're NOT going to pay for journal subscriptions when stuff goes OA." Which is a thing the OA movement has been super-reluctant to say outright. Which I think is kinda disingenuous-verging-on-dishonest of us.
- RepoRat
An interesting wrinkle from the Canadian perspective: the pot of money that the library budget comes from is largely provincial government funding + tuition, about 80/20 with variation among the provinces. The lion's share of government research funding would be tricouncil grants (SSHRC, CIHR, NSERC), which are the federal government.
- John Dupuis
+1 RR. Though "savings" could also come from "we're way more willing to walk away from journal subscriptions unless they are lowered to a reasonable price" because their unique value is now lower. So partly from fewer journal subscriptions, partly from downward price pressure on subscription prices.
- Heather Piwowar
John, thanks, I didn't know that about Canadian library funding.
- Heather Piwowar
That being said, it'll be interesting to see what happens as we get past the OA tipping point and closer to the OA event horizon. When and how are we going to recognize that we can start drawing down on journal subscriptions and what is going to happen with that money?
- John Dupuis
and what happens to the library and its staff, particularly in science libraries, when the wallet function is diminished?
- RepoRat
the fewer papers that are only available by subscription (esp well-funded,correlated with high use, papers) , the worse the "pay per click" and "pay per paper you have access to" numbers are going to look. Publishers have been pushing these because they looked good in Big Deals as I understood it? But as more papers go out of that system, these numbers will start looking worse....
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- Heather Piwowar
the problem, Heather, is that many of us have incentive NOT to push back, because our jobs depend on the current system. you know what they say about people understanding stuff their jobs depend on...
- RepoRat
I know. And I hear you. I just don't know the solution. Is there anyone whose full time job is to increase transparency about journal prices? Could there be a person like that? Could be a uni/SPARC/etc researcher with this as their #1 focus? Who else could it be? Otherwise it is everyone's side project, but the "worthy opponent" is lots o people on publisher side dreaming up waysto spin numbers so they can sell for high prices.
- Heather Piwowar
*shrug* at some libraries there are scholarly-communications librarians, but given the prevailing winds, they're often muzzled. they do what they can.
- RepoRat
I don't know the history of SPARC, but it seems like librarians pulled together SPARC because they knew full-time, unmuzzled attention was needed on something that would (eventually) benefit everyone, is that right? So could it be a role in SPARC? Maybe a 2 year sloan-funded gig, to start with, to collect this data, consolidate it, maybe ideally start to put it in someone maintainable? feels like there should be a solution. I guess JISC funded is another possibility, but then not as NA relevant.
- Heather Piwowar
suggest it to Heather?
- RepoRat
yup. Except no. I don't have time, can't spare the focus. Which is everyone's problem. Which is one of the reasons we are where we are. <depressed><running away to go work on the things Im committed to work on while trying to care about fewer things><still depressed>
- Heather Piwowar
hang in there. we're making progress. :)
- RepoRat
"disingenuous-verging-on-dishonest of us" -- not it! I've been saying for years, in writing, in public, that OA would decimate profit margins in publishing simply by enabling real market competition. I think the tipping point for OA will come when that finally sinks in -- that the subscription model is a protection racket.
- Bill Hooker
Nope, you're not it, Bill. :) But I know you know who is.
- RepoRat
I think there are people in publishing who understand the potential very clearly and are engaging the battle on two fronts. First via sock puppets like KA who argue against OA. The second front is newer and perhaps riskier for them and that's the Alicia Wise "we love OA because APC dollars are potentially just as juicy as subscription dollars" strategy. No doubt kicked into high gear by that stock analyst report from a year or so ago.
- John Dupuis
A thought that occurred to me recently. "Every year, the federal government funds over sixty billion dollars in basic and applied research. Most of this funding is concentrated within 11 departments/agencies (e.g., National Institutes of Health (NIH), National Science Foundation (NSF), and Department of Energy). This research results in a significant number of articles being published...
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- Graham Steel
Based on an "average" APC of say $2000 ¦ 90,000 x $2000 = $180M which equates to 3% of total spend.
- Graham Steel
Based on Mike Taylor's recent estimate of $453 http://svpow.com/2012... with an "average" APC of $453 ¦ 90,000 x $453 = $40.77M which equates to 0.6% of total spend. Is my math correct?
- Graham Steel
Tell a scientist that 3% -- or for that matter 0.6% -- of a funding agency's budget might be diverted away from directly funding researchers and that scientist will HOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLL. I have seen this happen.
- RepoRat
Yes RR, I can understand that reaction. Spinning back to earlier parts of this thread, can I throw in http://mcblawg.blogspot.co.uk/2010... from 2010 into the ring. I think I am allowed to say that these workshops explored real cost data analysis of UK Universities flipping to total OA output (Green/Gold was not discussed from memory) and unsubscribing to TA content completely.
- Graham Steel
Does anyone have the numbers handy on the total value of the journal subscription market? $4 billion seems to be a number at the top of my brain, but I could be totally wrong.
- John Dupuis
Is there a known figure, rather than an estimate, for that total? U.S. academic libraries paid $1.253 billion in 2010 for electronic serials, but that's only a piece of the action. ($1,252,586,887, to be more "precise.")
- Walt Crawford
Quick poll. Would you like to see social media tools added to PubMed content? http://www.surveymonkey.com/s...
Heavenly Pools, Egon Willighagen, Berci Mesko, MD and 3 other people liked this
With an altmetrics apparatus behind them, why not?
- RepoRat
Yeah, that would be great too.
- Graham Steel
The subject matter came up on Twitter a couple of days ago. I plan to raise it with David Lipman early next year, so thought it would be useful to have some data to show him. As such, I would be most grateful for responses on the poll itself.
- Graham Steel
I will send this to a buncha discussion lists. When does the poll end?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
from iPod
Ace, Joe..Thankee .I'll keep it open.
- Graham Steel
I'll try to send it tonight or tomorrow, but who knows how many peeps will read their email tomorrow.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
from iPod
Just out is this related blog post:- http://brodiesnotes.blogspot.co.uk/2012...
- Graham Steel
sure, why not?
- Björn Brembs
I was thinking, it would be cool if PubMed and PMC had uservoice suggestion boxes/voting. Would be cool to hear what features people want (like perhaps this one?), and which bugs are most bugging people. Right now PubMed and PMC are missing a strong feedback loop imho.
- Heather Piwowar
Completely agree Heather. I think we've made _some_ progress since this rant from Anna Kushnir way back in 2008 http://www.scilogs.com/lab_lif...
- Graham Steel
++UPDATE++ Matters are now in the hands of PubMed/NCBI.
- Graham Steel
++UPDATE2++ They are running with it so expect to see social media tools on all PubMed content in the near future - YAYS....
- Graham Steel
Thank you.
- Ahmet Yükseltürk
<quiet voice> I wouldn't mind if pubmed were just a bit easier to search </quiet voice>
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
^^^ by which I mean, sophisticated, library-type searching & assessing results - like looking at MeSH terms (where do I find them again?!) and the "more like this" hasn't typically been too useful imho. Sorting results by some kind of relevance, embedding the OpenURL resolver button for thems that has 'em. "Related articles" that are, actually, related.
- $tephanie•Cog$ciLibrarian
I hear ya Stephanie•CogSciLibrarian
- Graham Steel
Boyden A (1954) The significance of asexual reproduction. Systematic Zoology 3: 26-37+47 (http://www.jstor.org/discove...). Pls send to jdaggATgmxDOTde.
Sorry, JSTOR is off the radar. no access.
- Graham Steel
no cigar.
- Florian Diehl
sent
- Wolfgang S
Brilliant. Thanks!
- Joachim
RT @ScholarlyComm: We're still working on our technical issues with the #RDS2013 livestream. In the meantime, follow the hastag for tweets.
That explains why I can't see the ustream.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Indeed !! Hope they get it back soon. If not, we may have to wait until after lunch...
- Graham Steel
#rds2013: Why academia must look outward; “closed data means people die” - http://blogs.ch.cam.ac.uk/pmr...
Graham Steel and Yo Joe. No, go slow. liked this
The pic of Jack is great.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Indeed. I intended on using http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Z8Q1em... but just before publishing, Jack launched a new website so I opted for the pic he used on the homepage instead.
- Graham Steel
Looking for: http://dx.doi.org/10... Please send to henristudy at yahoo dot fr. Many thanks in advance!
So, what would it take for you to respect SK?
Victor Ganata, Graham Steel and Meg V. Meg liked this
Let's say it keeps all current bloggers, and they keep doing what they are currently doing, but SK publicly acks it needs more diverse voices and then tries hard to go get them and get them posting frequently. Would it, could it, become a place that you go to for, um, heated but interesting scholcomm discussion, or is it burned earth?
- Heather Piwowar
And, while we're at it, in that scenario would *you* blog for them?
- Heather Piwowar
I admit I think it's burned earth. No, I would not blog for them under any conceivable circumstance. They are doing incredible damage to academic-librarian support for open access, and as I've been professionally hurt by that, I say the devil take them and all their works. Let no one give them additional credibility, especially not on the criterion "balance." I don't particularly respect my own stance on this; it is what it is.
- RepoRat
I would say that even currently not all SK posts are uniformly awful. The main problem is that the worst blogger is also by far the most prolific. Even if just KA stopped blogging there it would make a huge difference. Also, adding one or two bloggers that were even a little on the positive side for OA.
- John Dupuis
Useful. "they are doing incredible damage to academic-librarian support for open access" What are they doing right now that does this? Concrete examples will help me. As you may have seen on the twitters, I have put my neck out :P
- Heather Piwowar
i keep thinking about starting an anti-SK blog because i fear it might be burned earth at this point. but i also think one place for an honest and genuine discussion, would rock. and agreed with John re: KA.
- jambina
John, Let's say KA stays, because that is surely likely. Can there be enough OA bloggers to counter that for you, or is he a poison pill?
- Heather Piwowar
It's hard to find documented examples, Heather, because the major harm is giving library water-cooler talk plenty of apparently-credible misinformation with which to play the OA refusenik.
- RepoRat
^^^^this
- Meg V. Meg
I find KA to be a poison pill. He is teflon. Nothing that people say to counter KA sticks. He counters with something that is different than what people counter with.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
KA and the others at the Skitchen love using fallacies to counter good OA arguments.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
For documented examples, one can find them in the comments. He misdirects the conversation all the time.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
ok, is there any way to counter the apparently-credible misinformation? Let's brainstorm? What if KA-opposites had the chance to offer an "opposing opinion" on his posts? (not quite that, but that idea). Or is he just such a smooth teflon talker that it wouldn't work?
- Heather Piwowar
I think he would have to leave for the blog to have any hope of redemption. With him it's several posts a week that, like RR says, just scorch the earth for OA in libraries and really everywhere. Without him and with a few more positive voices, it could be a lively dialogue. I think he just infects the whole blog, setting the tone that surely the others pick up on and echo. I bet if someone actually studied it, someone like RA has probably gotten less OA-positive during his time there.
- John Dupuis
Any engagement legitimizes them.
- Meg V. Meg
or, as John suggested, the problem is he is just so prolific? What if there were only 2 KA posts a month or something???
- Heather Piwowar
You'd have to have a countering voice with the same perceived gravitas as KA who is also willing to descend into KA's mudpit for a knock-down-drag-'em-out fight. That's gonna be tough. OA's respected voices tend to be too measured to take on the KAs of this world. (Sane toll-access people have the same problem with St-v-n H-rn-d.)
- RepoRat
(Also, my April 1 post this year will be SK-themed. Like last year, I may be looking for volunteers to help out at some point...)
- John Dupuis
john, lemme know. and now that i think about it, i completely agree with Meg. they get too much airtime.
- jambina
Here, Taylor tries to counter his logical fallacies, but they don't seem to stick. He just waves them off, and misdirects the conversation concerning peer review. http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2013...
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
What if we created an Anti-SK group blog? I need another blog like I need a hole in my head.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Given that KA seems to be big part of the problem, thoughts on what you think SSP should do? Ideally, and something that has a chance of actually happening? :)
- Heather Piwowar
... what's SSP's role in all this? you mean, "having been dumbass enough to elect KA their fearless leader?" suffer it out for a year, as I had to do with M-ch--l G-rm-n.
- RepoRat
Is the SSP thinking of changing something up? Do they see that KA is caustic or what?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
I go back and forth on whether engaging them just makes it worse by legitimizing them. On the one hand, don't feed the trolls. On the other hand, they already have tons of legitimacy and in many (often very high) places even more than any OA advocate. I would compare them more to creationists. They have decision makers' ears, they are effective at making their points, they actually wins...
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- John Dupuis
Joe: nah, I don't think so. I just said that I didn't want to do a guest blog for them, and a few people are questioning me about why not. Might be an opportunity to suggest some changes, that's all.
- Heather Piwowar
But on the third hand, engaging them is completely exhausting and in a lot of ways completely ineffective (like with creationists...) and maybe the better strategy is just to completely go over their heads and try and win the war elsewhere. Like I said, I'm back and forth on this one...
- John Dupuis
Do any of the library administrators read the comments to see if there is dissension or discussion that is counter to the SK author?
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
Creationists is interesting parallel. Mike Taylor suggested Fox News as parallel.
- Heather Piwowar
Anybody that wants the status quo. Any group that doesn't want change to their power or prestige system. Yeah.
- Yo Joe. No, go slow.
I do not engage creationists either. I do think there is a place for productive conversation, but it's likely not in public, and not with relative strangers. There has to be mutual respect.
- Meg V. Meg
Commenting as one who's been identified as an OA independent (P. Suber and myself) or an outright enemy of OA (S. Hnd)...I consider SK to be scorched earth--I can think of no way to legitimize it other than shutting it down entirely. I've given up commenting on SK posts.
- Walt Crawford
I also tend to agree that creationism is a pretty reasonable analogy for TSK: it rallies the few remaining supporters, radicalizes them and alienates an otherwise potentially sympathetic majority. Other than creationists, one might also use Todd Akin, Rush Limbaugh or James Inhofe - how many elections have Republicans won since they took center stage?
- Björn Brembs
I tend to agree with the others about SK being too far gone to save. And they are losing ground fast - I don't know any library admins at my institution who give any credence to SK (just had a conversation with my Dean about them). And we both lamented the lack of a space to have genuine conversation and dialogue about the issues at play. But KA has really ruined it. Also it's funny that he crows about the viewer logs being high - I think it's analogous to people watching a train wreck!
- Sarah
from FreshFeed
Is it worth trying to hasten their demise, or are they doing a fine job doing themselves in?
- RepoRat
My science librarian loves SK. Volunteered that fact to me out of the blue last month. "Learn so many interesting things, dig to the bottom of issues..."
- Heather Piwowar
and there you go.
- RepoRat
I continue to be torn about engaging them. To take the pro side, as with creationists, it's probably not worth debating them on their own terms in their own spaces. On the other hand, as science people have to make the public case that ID (for example) isn't science and directly challenge the truthfulness of the stuff in the Creation Museum, maybe there is a need to directly challenge the truthfulness of the stuff in SK?
- John Dupuis
Interesting, from David Crotty: http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2013... and David Wojick: http://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2013... At first glance, neither particularly inflammatory.
- John Dupuis
I actually learned not to (and why) engage creationists when I was an evolutionary biology grad student, from my PI's, so it's definitely not something that all scientists feel is necessary.
- Meg V. Meg
On the "aresehole front" if I can put it that way, KA is 12/10, Crotty 5/10. unsure about Wojick: (say 3/10) Allegedly.
- Graham Steel
Wojick is a professional anti-scientist, a paid climate change denialist. He's the least credible of the lot. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index...
- Bill Hooker
Also, you people are nuts to even be having this discussion. :-) There's nothing worth saving at TSK; even David Crotty, who is worth arguing with, isn't worth arguing with on that site.
- Bill Hooker
As to John's point about whether it's a good idea to just ignore them -- if you must engage, do it on your own sites. Never comment at TSK. (I've failed to take my own advice in the past, but I'll do better!)
- Bill Hooker
Interview: 16-Year-Old Jack Andraka Invents Cheap, Accurate Cancer Test | Singularity Hub http://singularityhub.com/2013...
Andrew C (✓) and Victor Ganata liked this
dang, I've been scooped-ish.
- Graham Steel
quite worrisome if you're not 'food-aware'. Makes me happy to spend time cooking http://www.nytimes.com/2013... #nutrition #sugar #processedfood
Graham Steel liked this
Probably the same as you, I was brought up on home cooking. (no time to read the whole piece). Having a home-made Chinese chicken curry & egg fried rice for dinner.....
- Graham Steel
?? @kanderson @meyercarol @openaccesshulk Baseless parody. Let our bloggers speak before you parody. Hulk do bad thing. https://twitter.com/kanders...
John Dupuis liked this
ahahahaha
- jambina
Because, you know, "The Library Radish" certainly *sounds* like a serious blog with serious posts! [I'd never seen The Library Radish before; it's had a couple of other nice little items, including one about a blog to announce blogs that some library folk will recognize...]
- Walt Crawford
Me neither - The Library Radish http://libraryradish.wordpress.com/
- Graham Steel
Nice pic. of the Judging panel at NHS Hack Day #nhshd Oxford by @robdykedotcom http://twitpic.com/c6jily
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Efe Dekorasyon liked this
That's yours truly on the far right (loud trainers). Next to me is Geraint Lewis, Chief Data Officer of the NHS in England and next to him, Ben Goldacre !!
- Graham Steel
Twitter convo this morning w Kent Anderson about why I pulled my upcoming guest post from Schol Kitchen. Happy w myself because I think I managed to articulate it well by last tweet: I'm up for being part of the solution, but not in system that doesn't admit it has a problem.
Eric Sizemore, Efe Dekorasyon, jambina and 11 other people liked this
*hugs you*
- RepoRat
well done!
- Björn Brembs
Salutes !!
- Graham Steel
Wow, what a, well, never mind he might sue me.
- John Dupuis
Also I had a similar though not anywhere near as unpleasant twitterr conversation with Rick Anderson yesterday.
- John Dupuis
"Prick"
- Graham Steel
It's so important for these people to hear that people they respect don't respect the stances they're taking. Thank you, Heather and John.
- RepoRat
Freshly baked Naan splattered with garlic butter FTW....... http://twitpic.com/c696pr
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John Dupuis, John (bird whisperer), imabonehead and 4 other people liked this
made from scratch?
- Rajarshi Guha
Afraid not. I do not currently have a Tandoor !!
- Graham Steel
i don't care if it's made from scratch. please to deliver.
- jambina
I'm still amazed at the speed they make these dudes. 1 minute to roll/shape, In the Tandoor for 1 minute and ..... BINGO. That said, house ovens only go up to ~280. The Tandoor, ~480.!!
- Graham Steel
Cue - https://www.youtube.com/watch... (audio is fine until towards the end).
- Graham Steel
Yeah, it's pretty cool to watch. Apparently, you can simulate a tandoor by using a pressure cooker turned upside down and placing the dough on the inside
- Rajarshi Guha
You try it first, Rajarshi. Others (meaning kitchen utensils etc.) may die in the process.
- Graham Steel
ha ha. indeed
- Rajarshi Guha
Efe Dekorasyon olarak alanımızda bugüne kadar bitirmiş olduğumuz işlerin yanında, halen taahhüdü altında bulunan işlerle ilgili çalışmalarımıza, sürekli titizlik ve kalite anlayışından ödün vermemeksizin devam etmekteyiz.Mantolama ve inşaat işlerinde yapmış olduğumuz çalışmalar ve profesyonelliği en ön planda tutarak verilen itinalı hizmetler sayesinde müşterilerimizin artan güvenini kazanmakta, başarılı işlere imza atmaktayız.
- Efe Dekorasyon
Was this the first global #opendataday ? If so, we must do this AGAIN.
RT @ton_zylstra @McDawg actually it's the 3rd, and yes must do this again. earlier editions in Dec '10 and Dec '11, initiative by @daeaves
- Graham Steel
Hi there. I'm looking for this issue: http://dx.doi.org/10... "Cell cycle genes of Drosophila". Please send to perropery@gmail.com . Thanks a lot
no access
- Graham Steel
We weren't subscribed *yet* - sorry.
- Heather
it is a book, no access here.
- Julien Colomb
http://link.springer.com/article... pl send to jdaggAtgmxDOTde
no access :-(
- Heather
I've spent almost an hour just even to see if I can find a way in. #Springer, you suck.
- Graham Steel
I wonder why (not) toll access publishers "make it so difficult" for people to access their content <yawns literally> Logging in via Athens is a Mission Impossible from here. Springer website says "You have been redirected to our new and improved site". I think they are simply talking pish............
- Graham Steel
Sent #:)
- Ian Simpson
RT @p_binfield: For the techies among you, learn how PeerJ has our technical infrastructure set up: http://blog.peerj.com/post...
Being a not techie, pretty much all of this did not compute with my brain. Sounds good though.
- Graham Steel
RT @BenLillie: My new favorite journal RT @ivanoransky: This publication is just one disaster after another http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal...
LOLZ
- Graham Steel
Well, we can dream...
- Graham Steel
Looking for: http://archopht.jamanetwork.com/article... and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed.... My email: esztisz@gmail.com. Thanks in advance!
played all my cards - no access to either.
- Graham Steel
no cigar either. email the corres. author?
- Florian Diehl
thanks for trying! maybe researchgate request...
- Eszter Szalai
no luck either.
- Heather
#1 is emailed. As for #2 - they only keep the abstract for 1986 articles. Hope this bit helps !
- Alexandru Muntean
Many thanks!
- Eszter Szalai
Hi guys ! Looking for an older paper that went up online in 2004. Title: An integrated metabolic modeling approach to describe the energy efficiency of Escherichia coli fermentations under oxygen-limited conditions: Cellular energetics, carbon flux, and acetate production. Can anyone help ?
no access here. url is http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...
- Graham Steel
It's been provided by outside sources. No need to search anymore.
- Alexandru Muntean
Hi. I'm searching Racemic Protein Crystallography, in Annual Review of Biophysics,
Vol. 41: 41-61 (June 2012) - thx, if :) to daniel dot bourrion at gmail dot com
No luck at this end. Here is the url for others http://www.annualreviews.org/doi...
- Graham Steel
sent! good luck !
- Alexandru Muntean
Many thx Alexandru
- dbourrion
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed... please send this article to my email tkmadhuram@gmail.com
no access :(
- David Castro
no luck, either.
- Heather
no dice.
- Graham Steel
After just a bit of a mix, it's sent
- Alexandru Muntean
Hi please send these articles to ranjijo@gmail.com http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed... , http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed... ,http://www.thelancet.com/journal..., http://www.thelancet.com/journal... Thanks in advance!
#3 & #4 sent. No access to #1 & #2
- Graham Steel
Thanks a lot!
- Ranjani
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