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Help, I’m clueless about Web Service scalability - http://scobleizer.com/2008...

October 5, 2008 from Scobleizer -- Tech geek... - Comment - Like - Share

Clay Newton, Nikpay, Alex Hammer and 47 other people liked this

On Thursday one of FriendFeed's co-founders, Paul Bucheit, will be on a FastCompanyTV webinar with me along with Matt Mullenweg and Nat Brown, the CTO of iLike to talk about how to make a system that stays up and responds quickly, even with millions of users. I can't wait, but I'm also terrified and need your help. - Robert Scoble

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A link from work (Not sponsored, not an ad) for anyone interested. It's related to Robert's topic: http://www.bluearc.com/dataflo... (And don't shoot me for blending the work life with FriendFeed) - Louis Gray

very cool - Zee.

Thanks Louis, checking it out now. - Robert Scoble

I would like to hear their opinions on Rails and if the scalability issue is a myth. - Mona Nomura

This website may help with your research: http://highscalability.com - imabonehead

Mona, here's a Google video on "Ruby & Scalable Architectures" (note this also includes Rails) - http://is.gd/3A7C - imabonehead

"Breakthrough Failures That Help Sites Scale" - http://is.gd/3A85 - imabonehead

There is usually a session at mix with the myspace crew. It's Microsofy centric bit might help. - Roberto Bonini

Robert, I left you a comment on your blog post - but maybe it'd easier to catch you here. Come on up into the city anytime this week before your interview, and it'd be my honor to help answer your questions, and take you through what we did at Technorati (and now at Offbeat Guides) with regards to building scalable systems - including all the mistakes we made, some of them not so obvious! Give me a ring at 415 846-0232 or DM me or whatever, we'll set it up... - David Sifry from twhirl

Glen, I guess many of us are interested so if you can share them we would be very grateful! - Andrés David Aparicio from twhirl

These guys have all answered these questions before and know how to talk about the topic. So I don't think you are on the hook for deep insightful questions. More of just getting the conversation started. Maybe take it from an uber user point of view and ask for stories about how they've scaled, made performant, and made reliable some of your favorite features with special attention to challenges and how they were solved. The proud parents will do the rest. - Todd Hoff

All this time I thought Glen was just this funny guy on Friendfeed :) Love the anonymity! - Charlie Anzman

There's some excellent videos over at parleys.com, especially: http://parleys.com/display... and http://parleys.com/display... - Jason Carreira

Scalability is about identifying bottlenecks that keep the system as a whole from achieving the goal of linear scalability (adding 2x as many boxes gives 2x as much throughput). Ask about what typical bottlenecks they avoid, and which bottlenecks they're still fighting. Also, the largest cluster-size they've run, and where the tipping points are for when certain bottlenecks become a problem. - Jason Carreira

Allow me to mix together a few prior comments by pointing out this great article: "Scaling Bumper Sticker: A 1 Billion Page Per Month Facebook RoR App " http://highscalability.com/scaling... - Daniel J. Pritchett

Glen, Jason: thanks for the links :) - Andrés David Aparicio from twhirl

Anytime Glen. Creative blending of obsfucation and bloviation is a talent :-) - Todd Hoff

I think a good question to ask would be what assumptions each of them made that ended up being wrong and the most expensive to fix? All developers/architects make assumptions ... about how much traffic they'll see, what kind of traffic they will see, what the most important performance metric will be (the responsiveness vs. throughput question, which anyone building a scalable application needs to answer for their domain) ... Did any of their assumptions in these or other areas lead to big problems? - J. McConnell

Glen, maybe the reason they're up-and-coming is that they're thinking in terms of value to the user, and not thinking, e.g., "how much harder will it be to shard our data if we implement this feature?" - Bruce Lewis from fftogo

Mr. Scoble - If I had one question to ask it would be "How do you BUILD for an predictable spike?" Say you're WalMart.com and you KNOW your biggest day of the year is going to be day after Thanksgiving. Walk us through preparing for surviving the spike and servicing all the transactions. If I had time for a second question I'd ask about the current state of cloud computing (namely Amazon's EC2)? And, a third question would be framework related (ala Ginger or MaryAnn?).... Rails or C? - Gerald Buckley

I'd suggest that database sharding is a bandaid solution for the wrong up-front architecture. - Jason Carreira

My main interest in scalability (and the most problematic in my 10 years of experience) is always the database. I'd ask if there's a rule of thumb for the design of databases to support a truly scalable application. - Jorge Escobar

Scalability is all about CAPACITY PLANNING. Numerous aspects of systems design (and potential failure) must be examined and well planned in order to avert potential future failures. In an ideal world, you'd know the limits your system will need to scale to. But we don't live in a perfect world now do we. So product managers must work with IT architects to build a system that can "scale" to meet burgeoning demands as their product "takes off". Get your crystal ball out to start forecasting demand. - Susan Beebe

Cont'd: CAPACITY PLANNING involves all 7 layers of the OSI model. GO from the electrical plug in the wall to the "presentation" layer (screen) of the customer's view of your product. Now consider all the potential SPF (single points of failure) along the way; whether that be core infrastructure issues like bandwidth, load balancing (web servers handling the load), memory caching, DNS, optimized O/S, application design, database design, well structured queries, smart technologies like Java and AJAX - Susan Beebe

SCALABILITY actually refers to the concept of a Production Application running withing acceptable SLA limits without downtime or performance degradation, which can be caused by a slew of offending issues. Volumes have been written about scalability. Focus on key bottlenecks: bandwidth, infrastructure hardware, application design, data storage, especially as it pertains to database / query design. Sometimes large queries, reports, sprocs, batch jobs can hose a good app (needs smart devs to optimize). - Susan Beebe

Where are your users and where are your servers? Scaling globally. When did you move away from managed hosting and run your own racks? What do you consider successful site responsiveness? Have you noticed positive correlation between really quick page loads and user engagement? - Niall Kennedy

Great webinar, Robert, I posted some of my thoughts here http://cli.gs/L4bDzV - Jorge Escobar

Robert Scoble

The most "techie" FriendFeeders: http://scobleizer.com/2008... -- got anyone else who deserves to be on this list? Post their FriendFeed URLs here and I'll consider them. Every one here has been hand picked by me and me alone.

September 26, 2008 - Comment - Like - Share

Toure Moussa, Jugraj Singh, Colide81 (James) and 66 other people liked this

OK, I'll lead the "least techie" list if you make one ;-) - Bora Zivkovic

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Bora: see my brother for that list. He likes cat photos. :-) - Robert Scoble

:( i'm so sad...ok, disappointed rather. I run techineurope & the flippin' Apps room! :) - Zee.

Boy I've come a long from being an ex-banker if I make your list Robert. Thanks for the inclusion. - Hutch Carpenter

I'm sure it's a lovely list for those who wish to focus on tech. With that said, I opt to not check it as I'm certain I'm not on it, and I see more tech in FF than I know what to do with already: Robert's Likes take care of that =) - FFing Enigma

I don't make the list? Aww. I think I am at least as technical (on my blog as well as FF) as a lot of the folks on your list. - Phil Glockner

I talk about tech that all of you guys are afraid to touch - chiefly an understanding of MS server products and the destruction of the net through the use of DPI (limiting bandwidth or even access to specific sites/applications across the net) and the abuse of DPI (phorm and their ad peddling scum).. do I qualify? - alphaxion

It's funny since I joined FF I've found that there's so much more to talk about than tech! You might not know it from what I post on here but I am a super tech-head geek. - Lindsay

How in the hell does one even become 'techie' on FriendFeed without just aggravating the echo chamber? When I first came on here, I wanted to post techy stuff. Even got myself a blog on Profy before Profy became Profy but I found myself always nine steps behind everyone else. Seemed like a dead-end rat race to me so I went with just being adorably obnoxious instead. - Akiva

@akiva niching is your friend.. I seem to be the only one on here that can argue about active directory and the challenges to the core of power for MS that openLDAP and exchange-a-like apps such as zimbra pose instead of looking at a browser and declairing MS dead. - alphaxion

@alphaxion, I doubt you're the only one that _could_ but you're one of the few that really _wants_ to get into that kind of religious war. - Lindsay

I am a "techie" but like others, I dont bother to post much "techie" around here because of the amount of tech. Not sure this list is even a worthwhile venture because ultimately what value will it provide? - Scott Jarkoff

Good on ya, alphaxion! - Akiva

thx for including me - sean percival

Keep watching. This list is updating in real time. Zee, you're now on my list. Anyone who links to Leo Laporte is cool enough. :-) - Robert Scoble

I would suggest adding Andrew Brust - RAPatton

Who has the THX home theater? Which brother was a dope and bought the PS3 just to have a BluRay player? And a techie who doesn't game? Boooring! - Scoble, Alex Scoble

Do podcasters get a mention? Feed Radio Room! - Eric

Zee should definitely be on the list... - Brad Brooks

I'm a techie as well, but I post the tech stuff I do and care about inside of rooms which I admin. http://friendfeed.com/rooms... http://friendfeed.com/rooms... http://friendfeed.com/rooms... - Alan Le

You the man Robert. :) - Zee.

I don't see it as a religious war.. especially since I'm OS agnostic. I grew up with apples, acorns and amigas, I was introduced to win3.11 in the early 90's and have supported windows server products from NT to 2008. I play around with linux and keep my eyes open. If someone genuinely does something good I'll agree, but I also refuse to fall for the "it's cool to bash MS just cause" camp and will acknowledge when they have done something right. - alphaxion

Robert, I'm so supposed to be on this list. But before me, Zee for sure. - Aaron Krug

I'm a techie by trade but social media has really fired up my interest in soft skills instead. I'm also a new father and low on cash so you won't see me ogling gadgets like I used to. I admire your drive to categorize everyone on FF, Robert. Hopefully you'll get some help from FF soon and won't have to compile all of this outside of the system. - Daniel J. Pritchett

You are now working for linking the names on list, I am one of them; and really thanks for your valuable time! Hope to meet you one day! - Erhan Erdoğan

I wouldn't expect to be on the list, even though I'm probably at least as techie as any of the other PR people or MediaBistro. I'm really most techie as an audio geek, which I don't post about a lot here. Does being able to compose music & do sound design in ProTools, Max and at least a few dozen other geeky apps count? I know, everyone wants to be on the list.;-) - Cathryn Hrudicka

+1 Cathryn, there are many different kinds of tech, not just I got an iPhone tech. You should be sharing, I'd be most interested in sound tech. - Eric

Just realized i'm on the list. Thanks Robert !!! - Nir Ben Yona from twhirl

Robert, out of curiosity how the heck did you put this list together? - Zee.

Ok wait, I'm calling BS on some of this list. Are you going by who these people are or how actively they post tech related items? Dave Morin is the 5426th most active user on FF. Engadget is 5505th. They aren't really participating. - Shawn Farner

feel fee to add me if your looking for some geeks :) - (jeff)isageek

i think Robert may live to regret posting this...:) - Zee.

And also, note to the others: "Feel Free" to add me ; ) - Erhan Erdoğan

Zee: I started about a week ago. I went through all 3300+ people I'm subscribed to (I've been gathering subscribers all year long). Then I added anyone I remembered as sharing something with me that's geeky over the years. I'll write more on the list after I finish building links. - Robert Scoble

Great list! - Spencer

ouch, Scoble, ouch. - Veronica

Frederik Hermann (netzkobold) http://friendfeed.com/netzkob... - BlahGirls

Veronica: big oversight. You're on the list now. - Robert Scoble

Your page mentions that these are not necessarily "techies", contrary to what your post here suggests. I think your page is right. Nevertheless, great list. I wasn't expecting to see myself there, but that doesn't mean I don't want to ;). - Vinay | विनय

thanks! hehe. - Veronica

Is Andrew Brust on FriendFeed? I can't find him. - Robert Scoble

Aaron Krug: I subscribed to you and will watch you. I don't see much techie on your feed so far, so not sure I want to add you yet. - Robert Scoble

Wow, I really don't register with you. I always suspected. Oh well. - Phil Glockner

cue my Rodney Dangerfield routine... - MG Siegler

MG and J Phil: sorry, when you make a list like this I'm bound to miss someone deserving, which is why I've added both of you. - Robert Scoble

How did you miss http://friendfeed.com/robdiana? I even made Fruchter's list :) - Rob Diana

ha ha, don't worry robert my feelings weren't hurt THAT much. :) - MG Siegler

Thanks, Robert.. I appreciate it. - Phil Glockner

By the way, I don't care about participation that much. I use FriendFeed as an aggregator first, community tool second. So, if someone is bringing great content in here (like TechCrunch, who is my #1 most "Liked" feed) then I'm perfectly happy recommending that feed to others, even if he/she doesn't participate here. - Robert Scoble

I scanned the list and it's not "techie", it's more of a "People Who I Recommend" list, Robert. Why not call it what it is? :) - Mona Nomura

Mona: yeah, there's a few on there who fit that description, but generally they are people who bring me tech news and not much noise. - Robert Scoble

Thanks for including me, Robert - it's a great honor - Jesse Stay

“Analysis of Robert Scoble's "The most "techie" FriendFeeders" List” http://friendfeed.com/e... - FFholic.com

Yes, those of us who actually work in enterprise tech don't qualify. ;-) Kidding. I did send you a note re: Pandora though. - Jennifer Leggio

We've come a long way since the "Elite Bloggers Joining FriendFeed In Droves" post I did six months ago. Good job, guys! - Louis Gray

good list for social media and tech, a little light on folks who actually “make” real things - if there’s a “web 3.0″ coming i think it will be more about electrons meeting atoms than just facebook apps. - make

wow, i did a quick scan and already i am seeing major discrepancies in this list including those that you say having feeds that are mostly made up of tweets. but because they are a vc or whatever they are on it. Sorry Robert, Mona's got you pegged. You should really consider renaming this. - Carlos Ayala

Jennifer: I added you. - Robert Scoble

You don't have enough Mark's on the list :) - Mark Krynsky

Aww, Robert, you didn't have to. I was teasing you. I've just really started harnessing FriendFeed as of late. But it's a great network. - Jennifer Leggio

Actually I'm not there. heh. Maybe it didn't populate yet.I'm adding a lot of folks I missed. - Jennifer Leggio

Stirring it up again, my friend? Nice. What about me? I haven't lead you astray before, have I? (Oh, that little Scoblegate thing we had together.) We are on the cusp of a Cambrian Explosion of innovation, driven by the new "open stack." Follow me, so as not to miss any of the action. :) - John McCrea

Thanks for including me in the list Robert. Honored. - Mike Doeff

John, I added you. Glen, I'll fix that. - Robert Scoble

Thanks, Robert. And I like the "bad boy" image of your description of me. ;) - John McCrea

What am I. Chopped Liver? - Charlie Anzman

Thanks, Robert for the inclusion. - Warner Crocker

Robert - Please add me: MSCE: plus Security & Messaging; also certified Project Manager (PMP). Currently, I am the Manager over IT Integration and IT Project Management for Nelnet Enrollment Solutions (NNI) - includes Petersons.com, CUnet.com, CollegeandUniversity.net ($10M IT budget) - techie since youth - TRS80 baby just like you! VP of IT for PMIRochester.org. Founder of Rochester Social Media Club. Also highly technical wine enthusiast! - Susan Beebe

Missed me and Susan? That's it Robert. I'm callin' Alex now - Charlie Anzman

Thanks for including me on your list Robert! - Mitchell Tsai

Thanks DeWitt and Charlie! - you guys rock! Robert's list is rich with movers, shakers, influencers, networkers, early adopters, VCs, Execs, startup enterpreneurs, bloggers, software geniuses, and smart FFers! - Susan Beebe

Thanks for the mediabistro shout out- Seamus from MB - Seamus Condron

yayyy :) - Alana Taylor

Boo! Where’s the regular people? The ones who ARE NOT “pros, gurus, specialists, masters, professors, etc”…… You forgot about the underdogs who don't get the recognition they deserve. Us little peeps need love too; these "big timers" always get recognized. - ChaCha Fance

Hmm... - abacab

Hey Scoble. Yea, I'd like to be considered, of course. I'm a little late to the party, but hey... I'm here. Cheers. - nateritter

You list people who work on Twitter songs or Twitter clients but no one working on Twitter itself. I know you at least like evhead. - Niall Kennedy

Oh, and you left Niall of the list. : ) - DeWitt Clinton

i see slashdot but not MAKE magazine? what's up with that! - make

I think I added all the deserving people who left notes on here. Keep them coming! - Robert Scoble

Thanks for adding me, proving (yet again) that IT failures are sexy and enterprise software is cool. Yeah, right :) - Michael Krigsman

Great list, Robert! Thanks! - Apostolos Papadopoulos

Don't forget Sarah Perez and David Risley - Jesse Stay from twhirl

ah, i'd been traveling and wondered where a rash of new subscribers had come from - scoble effect in action, thanks robert :) - mike "glemak" dunn

This list made me feel incredibly out of touch... of course I AM out of touch, but I don't like to feel that way. (but good list anyway thanks...) - Trey Ratcliff

follow lots of those, but no me :( I blame scoble! - Dobromir Hadzhiev

Thanks for putting me on the list - can't believe that I actually made it on there! - Charlene Li

I really hate these lists... mostly because there's obviously way more than 100 people that are worth following - or we'd all have following lists of 100 or lest. Partially because the first thing we all do is look to see if we're on the list - if so, we breathe a sigh of relief, then worry about 'living up to being interesting', if not, we wonder why not and get sort of hurt and offended (I know I'm in good company, my twitterstream tells me so.) - Lucretia Pruitt

On the same level tho - they clearly create traffic and conversation - this thread is huge, people on your list are seeing bumps in their follows, and the comments are still coming in on your blog. So they obviously generate something. Unfortunately, some of us walk away feeling like we must be "failing" somehow - and that's such a crappy feeling. I know that I don't use FF sufficiently to make any list like this - but have to wonder about other folks who didn't make the cut. :\ - Lucretia Pruitt

Robert, I would add Jemima Kiss from UK's The Guardian to your list. http://friendfeed.com/jemimak... I enjoy her points of view from the other side of the pond. - Julio F ~ @SocialJulio

Thanks for the inclusion. My gripe is that there are still only FriendFeed "name claimers" on this list. I know that a few people on it don't use FF at all. And you don't know what blogs I write for, Robert? ;) - Tamar Weinberg

tamar: ff started as a presence aggregator and it still does a fantastic job of that even for the "name claimers" you dislike - i don't think its a requirement for everyone to be liking and commenting up a storm on ff to bring value to a feed especially if they bring a lot of signal via their included services alone :) - mike "glemak" dunn

Robert- Crazy girl who ran after you at BWE08....gave you my trading card for http://www.MyTechOpinion.com. I use my super powers for the positive advancement of real estate technology and social media! -Nicole Nicolay "NikNik" @nik_nik - Nicole Nicolay

Nice list, I also started listing Finnish users of FriendFeed last week: http://autiomaa.org/2008... - Daniel Schildt

@Robert: Nice list—just want to mention that Sanjeev is also a FriendFeed founder as well as a developer. - Jim Norris

I guess getting all those member interviews doesn't count for much ;-) - Andrew Feinberg

one thing that is interesting about this or the criteria used, is that what does "interaction on FF" mean? What if someone is creating a ton of interesting content on flickr or podcasting? I am stoked to see the people on this list on it. Many are friends, and most I respect (there is that @technosailor dude). Lists are inherently flawed, the contribution of the people included here are not. - Micah Baldwin

I'm honored and astonished to have made this list... thanks Robert - Brian Shields

thanks for having me in this list, even though with the recession I am not sure anybody should spend too much time worrying about that... thanks Robert anyway! - Loic Le Meur from twhirl

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