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Sweeping Health Care Plan Passes House - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2009...
Karoli liked this
Fwd: Looks like the connection between FriendFeed and Twitter is no longer real-time. Wonder who is to blame? (via http://friendfeed.com/carnage...)
Paula Marttila, Christopher Harley, Micah Wittman and 6 other people liked this
It was previously mentioned as an issue on Twitter's side. FriendFeed is polling now.
- Louis Gray
what? It's OK now? Or is it true that "Paul Bucheit wrote that they no longer had access to Twitter's firehose, so it sounds like it may have had something to do with Facebook's acquiring them, but don't quote me on that. - Jorge Escobar"
- Steve Gillmor
I think both Louis and Jorge are saying the same thing
- Jesse Stay
Right, I'd like to hear Paul or Bret confirm that.
- Steve Gillmor
Well, on a maybe related note, the Innovation Management Group (http://friendfeed.com/innovat...) has not updated for 24 hours now. That Group includes direct Twitter accounts, Twitter searches, Delicious RSS for a specific tag and SlideShares with a specific tag. No update at all for 24+ hours. Most odd and frustrating.
- Hutch Carpenter
also not finding older posts in search that used to be there. did this change too?
- Brooks Bayne
Twitter shut off the firehose, but made available a replacement API called birddog. We're about ready to switch that on (which will restore realtime Twitter updates), but are waiting on some final approvals from legal. I'm hoping it will all be resolved this week.
- Paul Buchheit
mmm
- Johni Fisher
thx for the feedback, paul
- Steve Gillmor
House Nears Vote in Debate on Health Care Overhaul Plan - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2009...
Google Wave vs Twitter at conferences | FreshNetworks Blog - http://blog.freshnetworks.com/2009...
Jason Miller and Denise Howell liked this
IBM’s Steve Mills on RealTime - http://www.techcrunchit.com/2009...
IBM's Steve Mills on Realtime - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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IBM's Steve Mills on Realtime - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Gillmor Gang 11.05.09 - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Karoli, Troy Benohanian, Mindaugas Dagys and 6 other people liked this
Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...?
scott anderson, Rocky Barbanica, Nir Ben Yona and 4 other people liked this
Should be a good show. Craig Burton always has something interesting to say.
- Cliff Gerrish
Waiting for call.
- Robert Scoble
Looking forward to the show.
- Matt Mastracci
A fellow Utahn - I will be watching :-)
- Jesse Stay
hmmm. silverlight plugin just went kerfluey on me...let's see if it works now.
- Karoli
Still waiting for skype call...
- Robert Scoble
Looks like we're very close to start.
- Robert Scoble
ah..working now.
- Karoli
Chris Messina is on too.
- Robert Scoble
Yay Phil and Craig! Two of my favorite Utahns
- Jesse Stay
Robert's pretty close to having a "lair" there...
- Ken Sheppardson
LIve from @ribbit http://bit.ly/Spawn on Gillmor Gang
- Kevin Marks
robert, i can't imagine going from that to an iphone. your head must explode daily.
- Karoli
Twitter.com FTW!
- Jesse Stay
Actually, I use e-mail for most of my Twitter activity
- Jesse Stay
Robert's head exploding is all part of the show.
- Cliff Gerrish
You guys should be sure to talk about the new Paypal identity proposals
- Jesse Stay
Karoli: info density is pretty crazy! Jesse: I got some good interviews on that yesterday. Should be up on Building43 next week.
- Robert Scoble
where are they again?
- Christopher Harris
Phil and Chris are at http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com
- Ken Sheppardson
thx
- Christopher Harris
I love how all the Identity pieces are fitting together now with OpenID+OAuth Hybrid, WebFinger and XRD and Activity Streams and PoCo at #iiw this week
- Kevin Marks
IIW was great this year.
- Cliff Gerrish
Robert, I'm getting more info on it as well - they want to be much more open than it appeared in the keynote
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: I will try to introduce PayPal's identity moves into this conversation. Also, what @marcglasberg http://icents.net is doing to turn Twitter into a micropayments system for content.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, missed what @marcglasberg is doing - can't wait to hear more
- Jesse Stay
Someone tell Craig to turn the sounds off on his TweetDeck ;-)
- Jesse Stay
and tell them I said hi from the chat (I don't think they're watching this)
- Jesse Stay
"Open ID threat level Orange?"
- Rob La Gesse
OpenID is just putting on long pants, a shirt and a tie.
- Cliff Gerrish
says @chrismessina the Govt is encouraging people to use OpenID as most people have them already.
- Kevin Marks
Badfinger or Webfinger?
- Cliff Gerrish
Email seems like a bad identifier.
- Cliff Gerrish
http://webfinger.org - it is a protocol to map an emial address into an OpenID endpoint - works with gmail and yahoo already
- Kevin Marks
Just ran into this on stackoverflow.com... they have logos for 10 different OpenID providers or your own URL and I think I have IDs on 8 of them... and I have no idea which one I used to create my account.
- Ken Sheppardson
The right number of id providers is 1. Selectors can solve this problem.
- Cliff Gerrish
We should be able to "transform" emails to OpenID, as described here: http://chrissaad.wordpress.com/2008... (see comments)
- Panayotis Vryonis
Hey Kevin how do I get involved in what you guys are doing with OpenID?
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, come to the next IIW.
- Cliff Gerrish
It would be great if Twitter supported OpenID as well as OAuth #iiw
- Kevin Marks
Watching the show but the FF stream is "frozen" from last week?just me?
- Paul Sherer
from iPhone
Twitter as an OpenID provider?
- Ken Sheppardson
Cliff, I wasn't aware of it - that would have been interesting. I was just out there the last 3 days at the Paypal conference.
- Jesse Stay
Paul, refresh. The thread has been updated inside NewsGang.
- Cliff Gerrish
Wow - I didn't realize Paypal was part of the OpenID foundation
- Jesse Stay
@Paul - working fine here. Are you at http://www.building43.com/realtim... ?
- Rob La Gesse
I don't quite understand why we need Salmon independent of Activitystrea.ms. Seems like a "feature" of activitystreams.
- Ken Sheppardson
I'll head over to building34, thanks.
- Paul Sherer
Monica's Activity Streams prezi: http://prezi.com/yxvtypx-aani/ maps out the ideas behind it too
- Kevin Marks
Calling out "comment streams" as some special case of activities seems like a dead end.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, Salmon is just the part that shows how to send the comments upstream, it fits in with Activity Streams fine.
- Kevin Marks
Of course in FF the comment thread can appear in multiple places simultaneously via iframe.
- Cliff Gerrish
So, Kevin, can Salmon support any Activitystreams objects? ... Got it.
- Ken Sheppardson
Salmon I'm Atom... I'm getting lost here
- Frank Paynter
Cool, I'm totally going to rip off the salmon idea and make my own proprietary protocol.
- Vezquex: God of FF
do you need an iFrog to use ribbit?
- Frank Paynter
Okay - I missed the last 15 mins. Did I miss anything?
- Jesse Stay
If Gillmor Gang watchers want Ribbit Mobile, got to http://ribbit.com/reserve.php and use the invite code 'gang09'
- Kevin Marks
Is Messina on the Space Station?
- Jesse Newhart
I wish somebody would put together some sort of over-arching reference document that explains how you build something that uses PSHB, OpenID, OAuth, Salmon, Activitystreams, etc in the "correct" way in an integrated system.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, check out the identity commons.
- Cliff Gerrish
I really wish Phil and Craig were in here. I need to get those guys together for lunch some time. That would be a fun meeting.
- Jesse Stay
I think you can catch both Phil and Craig at the Kynetx conference. It's coming right up.
- Cliff Gerrish
Conference de jour, literally ;-) Can't we all just agree to get together once a year or so in one place and deal with everything at once? :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
how about adding lists to lists? when's that coming?
- Frank Paynter
Ken, that's what the weekly Gillmor Gang is for. Everyone in one place in real time.
- Cliff Gerrish
I love how Atom is so flexible that we can add all these extra layers on top of it. ActivityStreams, Salmon, PSHB, etc
- Matt Mastracci
YES. filters to something manageable.
- Karoli
frank, isn't that what listorious is for? :)
- Karoli
Cliff: It's just that all these conference give me the apparently mistaken impression that there are more than 10 or so folks who I really have to follow ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Karoli... mebbe, but I'm a fan of bundling functionality within the native platform
- Frank Paynter
Seems like building a bunch of translators is the best way to get adoption.
- Cliff Gerrish
Isn't that what Gnip's supposed to be doing?
- Ken Sheppardson
Facebook just needs to remove the 24 hour storage limit and it will be free
- Jesse Stay
@cgerrish yes, translators into Activity Streams rather than n by n translators is an important saving
- Kevin Marks
Cliff, yeah - I'll be at the Kynetx conference
- Jesse Stay
I see Phil all the time - haven't met Craig yet (except online)
- Jesse Stay
Amen Mark - more clients need to support activitystrea.ms
- Jesse Stay
Myspace is still very much in the game
- Jesse Stay
Wait and see - there are some huge things coming to Myspace
- Jesse Stay
So we're all going to speak activitystreams on the global back-end bus and all these sites just become "clients"? Cool. I'm down with that.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, all but Twitter, at least the way they're going
- Jesse Stay
MySpace need a major shift to survive
- Rocky Barbanica
Rocky, keep watching.
- Jesse Stay
But if *everything* else is connected, we can all just pool our API call limits to pull the full feed out of Twitter and translate it to AS
- Ken Sheppardson
Go tell @loic to support Activity Streams from MySpace and Netflix, @scobleizer
- Kevin Marks
That's the theory, Ken. At least until the next time something closed and exciting comes along, ;)
- Matt Mastracci
It will be everyone supports open standards, then you'll also have to support Twitter's own standard - at least if you ask John at Twitter
- Jesse Stay
JK's sane, Jesse... if this all got widespread adoption I think you'd see a different bottom-up attitude from Twitter...
- Ken Sheppardson
The custom adapters actually creates a value proposition.
- Cliff Gerrish
http://cliqset.com is an Activity Streams supporting aggregator, as is MS Live
- Kevin Marks
Facebook needs public indexing to get legit... they can't because of privacy aspect of their service... FriendFeed can provide the opening to public indexing of Facebook users' wall content...
- Frank Paynter
Ken, yeah - I just don't like his attitude around it
- Jesse Stay
anything but FB, please.
- Karoli
Frank, you can use FQL to search Facebook pretty much site-wide (at least as privacy allows)
- Jesse Stay
I can sorta see Twitter's point... I mean Evan came to them a year ago and said "Hey, you should support OMB" and their natural response as "Uh... no.... why? Nobody's using it..."
- Ken Sheppardson
I should note Twitter doesn't allow specific queries like FQL btw
- Jesse Stay
I'd just as soon not search Facebook. or even use it.
- Karoli
Jesse...yahbut, you can't find Facebook content on google
- Frank Paynter
@Frank - yet!
- Rob La Gesse
Frank, yes you can
- Jesse Stay
There's a strong current of relevant discussion on Facebook that is hard for me to ignore
- Frank Paynter
If Activitystreams was implemented widely, I suspect the engineers at Twitter would warm up to it. That might not be a sufficient condition, but it's certainly necessary.
- Ken Sheppardson
sad that no-one from @twitterapi came to IIW this year; @blaine came + helped invent OAuth when they were 1/10th the size
- Kevin Marks
Facebook encourages self-censorship, or disownership, depending. (Basically I don't really want my Republican spouse reading my liberal rants)
- Karoli
@Kevin - they are busy building lists.
- Rob La Gesse
Kevin, yeah - that's been my perception - they're taking no part in any of the open efforts, which concerns me
- Jesse Stay
I think we all scared them off at BearHugCamp last fall ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Kevin, is Facebook there at all? I imagine Recordon's probably there?
- Jesse Stay
That's consistent with what Bret said last week, RE Facebook
- Ken Sheppardson
hubs will be distributed. facebook will lose their advantage.
- scott anderson
scott, i think so too. Google federating wave is one step closer to that...
- Karoli
perfect question
- Rocky Barbanica
Where's Microsoft in all this, btw?
- Ken Sheppardson
MSFT had a big presence at IIW - Information cards (selectors) started with them.
- Cliff Gerrish
Here's another good Google search on Facebook: site:www.facebook.com lists - status updates will very soon also be part of that
- Jesse Stay
What did Scoble just call his wife?
- Cliff Gerrish
As soon as grandmas start using a service, Robert bails... so... y'know... ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Scott, Facebook is becoming distributed
- Jesse Stay
Jesse... thanks for the "site: facebook" clue, but it's weak... I've just been testing it and nothing relevant emerged in response to specific search requests
- Frank Paynter
Ken - MS is busy building layoff packages and not serious software.
- Rob La Gesse
MSFT had a lot of good people at #iiw, and they are really contributing to the Activity Streams and OWF efforts
- Kevin Marks
@KevinMarks. Thanks for the mention. Yes, we (Cliqset) currently normalize activity from 70+ services into activity streams compliant atom feeds. We also share them in real-time through our APIs.
- Darren
Frank, a lot of cool articles about Twitter lists - I thought it was interesting "site:facebook.com lists"
- Jesse Stay
Save the demo for a building43 video :)
- Rob La Gesse
Frank, status updates are also very soon going to be included in that as well. Very soon you'll see those come up in search results.
- Jesse Stay
We will, Rob
- Rocky Barbanica
Seeing individual engineers and marketing folks from MSFT at different events reminds me alot of my old NASA days, when you'd always find some sort of "rogue" engineer off working on pretty much any project you can imagine. Every once in a while all the "rogue" engineers from the different centers who were working on similar projects would get together... but they were rarely funded and projects never went anywhere. But on the flip side... I'm glad they're involved :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Scoble is such a non-programmer. Everything he says that's hard sounds easy. "How do I bundle 3 tweets?" Just use take their URIs or copy the text.
- Vezquex: God of FF
Interesting show.
- Rob La Gesse
Thanks for the info Jesse
- Frank Paynter
Oh man...
- Rocky Barbanica
thanks, steve
- Karoli
Vezquex: sorry, that just does NOT do it for me.
- Robert Scoble
what more do you need?
- Vezquex: God of FF
Vezquex: I want to put them on a page and have them look like Tweets, mixed with YouTUbe videos, mixed with photos. Make it freaking easy. Copy and pasting and doing screen captures is NOT easy for most people.
- Robert Scoble
Did they mention the Paypal identification proposal at all? I think I missed it.
- Jesse Stay
Just in passing, Jesse
- Ken Sheppardson
We never got to it Jesse
- Craig Burton
Ken, I'm very fascinated by that, because it's true identity. If they can make that open along with the existing open standards around identity they're going to do some great things. I'm supposed to get a briefing by them soon (I hope).
- Jesse Stay
Vezquex: look at the Tweets I put into Wordpress: http://scobleizer.com/2009... that took a LOT of work. Way too much for normal people and WAY too much for real-time work. Did you watch the World Series last night? MSNBC had a Tweet out AS THE BALL HIT THE GLOVE TO END THE GAME!
- Robert Scoble
Craig, great seeing you, btw! I don't think we've ever met in person.
- Jesse Stay
This is a real time world and copying and pasting URLs is too freaking hard.
- Robert Scoble
Thanks Jesse, we need to make that happen.
- Craig Burton
Plus, I do everything on my iPhone now. Did you remember how we broke the news of Facebook buying FriendFeed? That entire thing was done from an iPhone, including an audio interview.
- Robert Scoble
Craig, just sent you and Phil an e-mail. Let's definitely make it happen.
- Jesse Stay
Paypal is still very weak. They are not quite clued in to the selector imperative.
- Craig Burton
Jesse: applications running on the open web will always be able to innovate and provide more functionality than apps running on top of Facebook. With activity streams, hubs, openid, etc. the reduced friction advantage that Facebook has is diminished.
- scott anderson
Craig, that's my worry
- Jesse Stay
Scott, Facebook is joining the open web
- Jesse Stay
it's all talk until it happens
- scott anderson
they also said Beacon was going to be revolutionary
- scott anderson
Facebook is an activitystrea.ms provider right now: http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.... They are also currently an openid provider.
- Jesse Stay
Facebook has openID?
- Matt Mastracci
I think you see it now with the work Recordon and the ex-FriendFeeders are doing... but the IP limits, 24hr cache limits, and EULA mythology seems to cast a shadow over everything
- Ken Sheppardson
openid support is defensive move
- scott anderson
BTW, most this stuff was around even before Recordon came on board
- Jesse Stay
Yeah, I realized that after I wrote that, Jesse... he's just sorta the flag bearer these days
- Ken Sheppardson
Scott, they've had that support for at least 6 months now
- Jesse Stay
Facebook led much of the activitystrea.ms standard - it is not a defensive move. They were part of the organization, and are also members of the openid foundation. They're leaders in this, not followers.
- Jesse Stay
openid support is a defensive move because they don't want google to dominate the openid space. if activity stream content expires after some period of time when it leaves Facebook, then that is another defensive move and one that is not truly open.
- scott anderson
Scott, I'm not sure they've said much about that content expiring. As long as you're a user I'm pretty sure you're able to get your content out, no exceptions. Developers have a few more strict rules, but nothing's stopping a client from enabling that for users themselves. The RSS News Feed app on Facebook's still around, so I think they're opening up to enabling that: http://www.facebook.com/apps...
- Jesse Stay
Also, see Facebook's latest news - their entire JS client library is now open source on GitHub: http://bit.ly/48FO1s
- Jesse Stay
Messina additional on IIW http://www.thesocialweb.tv/blog...
- Steve Gillmor
appears friendfeed search is down or at least squirrelly
Ahsan Ali aka. Slick, Bill Heslin, ursi and Alex Scoble liked this
or maybe the whole service
- Steve Gillmor
it's working for me. just tried it. twitter is behind, however. about 20 minutes behind.
- Karoli
Every time things start getting janky I get worried.
- Mathew™ one of a kind
Works fine for me.
- Maxamad (Amazigh)
Like ...No like.,,
- Bill Heslin
Mr. Gillmor...appearances....suck...kk....you know...
- Bill Heslin
Steve...your still here...you know we are all still here Gillmor...it puts all Scobleizer to the wall...
- Bill Heslin
It's not always smooth sailing (though much improved since shortly after Paul's mention of upgrading server hosting). Search does work fine for me right now.
- Micah Wittman
I know Steve you won't give into that? so thank you for still being on Freindfeed,,,,you know...there is something here
- Bill Heslin
nope searching stevegillmor immediately jumps back to October 1 after one or two items. didn't do that several days ago. something's up
- Steve Gillmor
instant reply...stop Mr. Gillmor...
- Bill Heslin
we love RSS and love freindfeed...
- Bill Heslin
steve, it's working for me. maybe you're hitting a server glitch?
- Karoli
Shall I say "fuck" ...rss
- Bill Heslin
is Bill a troll or just socially inept?
- Karoli
Excuse me Karoli?
- Bill Heslin
you seem to be inserting profanity-laced non-sequiturs into every message on this thread. it was an honest question. i'll apologize if I'm mistaken.
- Karoli
now it appears normal again, momentary abberation
- Steve Gillmor
You are mistaken....and I shall leave this thread....
- Bill Heslin
And Mr. Gillmor...always loved and still love you show ...even after the Leo bubye
- Bill Heslin
Karoli...you are so mistaken...
- Bill Heslin
buybye
- Bill Heslin
LOL
- Maxamad (Amazigh)
Just How Big Is TweetMeme Anyway, And Why Does It Matter? - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
Comparing visitors gives idea of the importance of Tweetmeme. I would have like see more analysis on how delicious vs. tweetmeme vs. digg is doing ..;-)have a nice day..
- Risto Päärni
Gillmor Gang 10.29.09 - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Micah Wittman, James Stratford, Vezquex: God of FF and 7 other people liked this
Why the focus on just e-mail (out of curiosity)? Why not the phone number, and what about the 24 hour storage limit for data? Any word on those opening up more with users' permission?
- Jesse Stay
I'm still watching, btw - maybe it gets answered later
- Jesse Stay
I'm also very curious of their plans to open up the search API - that would be much more interesting than their current roadmap.
- Jesse Stay
In regards to permalinks Facebook does have permalinks on fan Pages
- Jesse Stay
Re: the newsfeed Robert should really interview someone on Facebook's newsfeed team. That would be a very interesting interview. I don't think the FriendFeed team can answer those questions.
- Jesse Stay
Re: the platform I do really want to know Facebook's plans for real-time API integration. Will they adopt PSHB or RSSCloud or a standard of their own to provide real-time updates to the stream?
- Jesse Stay
Maybe you should ask Robert to interview the realtime API integration team too. Oh wait.
- Steve Gillmor
from iPhone
:)
- Susan Beebe
Jesse: I'm not the only member of the Gillmor Gang. In fact, I'm far from its most important member. Or did you mean to post this stuff to me for other parts of building43?
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I meant it would be good for building43. But yes, it would be interesting for Gillmor Gang as well.
- Jesse Stay
we'll have stream guys on when they have something to say, which judging by the Roadmap announcements, will be sooner than later.
- Steve Gillmor
The Private Web - http://www.techcrunchit.com/2009...
Denise Howell, Daniel Rowley, Robert Scoble and 8 other people liked this
In our day we had our Home phone and it was private if you could close the door
- paul mooney
this is our day and there are other alternatives now
- Steve Gillmor
In our day you could have an affair and your GPS coordinates couldn't be traced
- Francine Hardaway
maybe you could
- Steve Gillmor
Steve - Fabulous post! I love the deep level of investigation, research and analysis in this well-thought out and artfully crafted piece. Well done my friend! (Francine LOL)
- Susan Beebe
Gillmor Gang 10.22.09 - http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/2009...
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Susan Beebe and alexandere liked this
Stream Splicing — Threadsy's Rob Goldman with Kevin Marks, Robert Scoble, and Dan Farber. Recorded live Thursday, October 22, 2009. Full transcript below the video, courtesy of Simulscribe.
- Steve Gillmor
echovar » Blog Archive » Shadows & Light: Privacy in the Panopticon - http://blog.echovar.com/...
Gillmor Gang 10.29.09 - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Official Google Webmaster Central Blog: Using RSS/Atom feeds to discover new URLs - http://googlewebmastercentral....
Andrew Smith liked this
We had Google Site maps for inclusion into Google News for some time. Recently, I started using RSS feeds as well when I noticed they accepted them for that purpose. If they incorporate PubSubHubbub that would seem to be the way to go.
- Matt Terenzio
Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Susan Beebe, Karoli, Mike Doeff and 5 other people liked this
Looks like Bret Taylor of Facebook is talking with the Gang....
- Cliff Gerrish
Hopefully Bret shows up. Otherwise we'll be forced to talk about Twitter's new lists feature and you know where THAT will lead!
- Robert Scoble
I want to get a few words in about http://bit.ly/Spawn on Gillmor Gang today
- Kevin Marks
we will start in a minute.
- Robert Scoble
Only 13 viewers?
- beersage
Gillmor Gang is recorded live in front of a live studio audience.
- Cliff Gerrish
Oops, missed my calendar notification for this week's episode.
- Matt Mastracci
The names have not been changed to protect the innocent...
- Aron Michalski
Gillmor Gang is recorded live in front of a real-time web audience...
- Kevin Marks
I'm happy to see a simplification of the Facebook API. That's one issue I've always had with the platform. The initial learning curve is very steep.
- Matt Mastracci
Scoble still wants to port your email address out of Facebook...
- Cliff Gerrish
I don't have enough friends in my email address book to make Scoble's screen look busy enough
- Aron Michalski
I did a little hacking on this with @bradfitz's code at http://unmung.appspot.com
- Kevin Marks
The question is should Scoble be able to send your email address to another platform, or another application.
- Cliff Gerrish
Do I have to agree to TOS with Scoble or does he have to agree with me?
- Aron Michalski
Facebook is the intermediary. Although you have a social contact with Scoble.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: I did a brute force workaround. I just manually copied the email addresses I wanted into Outlook myself.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, it's the programatic access that can lead to looting of addess books.
- Cliff Gerrish
The TOS doesn't forbid me from doing that and it only took a few hours.
- Robert Scoble
Cliff: yeah, but sorry, if you are a spammer you just go to Mechanical Turk and pay someone to do it.
- Robert Scoble
Yes, I agree. But the question is should Facebook facilitate the process?
- Cliff Gerrish
Putting money in front of a spammer's problem will reduce the amount of spam dramatically (which is why spammer probably won't use mturk). Maybe Facebook should charge per-user/per-transaction fees to extract email addresses?
- Matt Mastracci
"Facebook is an identity platform." Very interesting competitive landscape -- Twitter, Google, MSFT, Comcast?
- Cliff Gerrish
"Your inside is out, and your outside is in"
- Cliff Gerrish
Comcast? You mean Plaxo?
- Ken Sheppardson
"Open Graph API" is a really confusing name for adding webpages to FB as feeds
- Kevin Marks
Actually I'm thinking of Comcast making Cable available through the Network for its users.
- Cliff Gerrish
And the topic of attention and identity which were of interest to a small group of us is now an issue for a very large group of users.
- Aron Michalski
Haven't checked the roadmap but I wonder if there will be more possibilities for API use with pages and not just the main FB friend stream.
- beersage
Seems like financial institutions have a better identity play, but they're hopeless with this kind of thing. Credit Cards have a jump on it. Telecoms could also have an opening.
- Cliff Gerrish
Does the open graph address pages or items in a stream?
- Cliff Gerrish
Anyone ask about the problem of Facebook owning our social graph?
- Kurt Jarchow
so FB's "Open Graph API" is the opposite of the Social Graph API that reveals existing connections.
- Kevin Marks
This aspect is interesting, in that presence on the internet for a long time could be anonymous and now the value will be from having a unified ID.
- Aron Michalski
So it Bret saying it's just marketing spin at this point? ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
You'll see that the owners of the pipe, the bankers and the retailers all want to know who we are so they can get paid.
- Aron Michalski
can we identify the source of the metadata item and allow for filtering of what's a valid linkage?
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Robert, are you coming out for SideWiki for Facebook profiles?
- Cliff Gerrish
:-)
- Robert Scoble
wonder if Bret saw the Realtime chat games orkut launched http://code.google.com/apis...
- Kevin Marks
shared labels - is what i would like to see
- Bastian
For 'movies' shouldn't I just be able to pipe my Netflix data over?
- Cliff Gerrish
Netflix already exports Activity Streams of your movies - FB should read them
- Kevin Marks
Yes, rather than building a new and separate data set. Our combining the sets.
- Cliff Gerrish
Bret really shouldn't speak of FriendFeed in the past tense.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: FriendFeed is not getting new engineering work.
- Robert Scoble
Yeah he said "was"...
- Bastian
It's often more revealing to hear how people talk about things indirectly than to hear them answer direct questions.
- Ken Sheppardson
better late than never...i'll have to catch the first 30 minutes on replay.
- Karoli
Friendfeed's conversations aren't duplicated by any of the other players.
- Cliff Gerrish
Why would FB buy FF if they weren't headed down that road? To use it or kill it?
- Aron Michalski
Interesting to hear the idea of protocols driven by User Interfaes in the realtime space.
- Cliff Gerrish
FriendFeed is still rolling out features: http://friendfeed.com/friendf...
- LogEx
I totally agree with Robert. The Friendfeed search is incredibly powerful and useful.
- Karoli
Permalinks for stream items is a critical feature.
- Cliff Gerrish
how long has Bret been in the FB world :) - he's being asked questions about future growth and planning that he may not have even been in the meetings that cover those new items yet :)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
FB conversations are fractured, across different pages and places. Mobile experience can be a cul de sac of death for a conversation...
- Aron Michalski
my criticism of Facebook has nothing to do with the stream. it has to do with the mashup of everyone I've ever known in my entire life.
- Karoli
i think it's great that i see other people's comments when i comment on an item on FB
- Bastian
I'd like my stream to show me things that I initially reject, and then later come to accept.
- Cliff Gerrish
Facebook represents my "real" social network only as it existed 25 years ago.
- Ken Sheppardson
we need more depth as to what a "friend" is - need to factor in FOAF items
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Ken, i wish it was that way. It has pieces of every aspect and social graph I've had for my entire life.
- Karoli
I'm starting to realize and appreciate Robert as an underdamped dynamic system, oscillating wildly but eventually settling/converging on a steady signal, e.g. the comments today on Wave vs the initial reaction. And I mean that as a compliment, Robert :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
There is plenty of conversations I am glad to leave off of FB; 90% of the people from my past have no clue about any of what we are discussing and don't care.
- Aron Michalski
Ken, yea - that's a great way to describe him. I agree that he should take it as a compliment
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
I do.
- Robert Scoble
Again, it is easy to bring content into FB but why can't I subscribe to an RSS feed of a page like I can w/ a Twitter user?
- beersage
my problem: 90% of the people I have contact with in real life have me friended on FB and HATE my politics, leaving me with fluffy little bullshit updates. No conversation. Just nonsense.
- Karoli
The FB pipes need to be full duplex.
- Cliff Gerrish
I think the part of FF we'll never see in FB is the basic lack of walls in FF and the philosophy that anything and everything can flow freely into and out of the system.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, FF may be the outside part of FB.
- Cliff Gerrish
how is the spewing of netflix queuing any different that all of those mafia wars or farm app updates I get on FB ;)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
If that's the case, Cliff, I'd like to see them embrace that. I may have missed a bunch of signals, but I'm still working on the assumption that FF is feature frozen and will be subsumed into FB.
- Ken Sheppardson
I'm glad that neither FF or FB or Twitter will be the hot new toy we all talk about this time next year!
- Bastian
Bastian: Twitter is about to release more new features than it has EVER released. Are you sure we won't be talking about them in a year?
- Robert Scoble
Bastian, where would be talking about whatever we'll be talking about.
- Cliff Gerrish
By the way, Tina says 'hi' to the chat...
- Cliff Gerrish
Robert, only if Twitter survives their own creativity and popularity
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
We should have OpenFF any day now... :-/
- Ken Sheppardson
hi back at Tina :)
- Karoli
Robert is raring to have a discussion about Twitter lists. :)
- beersage
bear: I'm pretty sure that in a year we'll be doing Twitter. Two years, though? Maybe not. Things don't change that fast when they have such momentum.
- Robert Scoble
I'm loving this shot of the studio. Rock on.
- Karoli
Robert: Twitter maybe, but i'm even more excited about new third party tools build on Tiwtter. Even so everything i was told from the people i know at Twitter, there are cool things coming.
- Bastian
yea, that was a great studio shot - nice layout
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
"talking a little about"... so, it's not imminent :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Generalizing twitter to many kinds of Activity Streams is interesting, and I hope Bret picks up on that
- Kevin Marks
The thing about FF & Twitter is that they make it possible to curate a stream of a niche topic and put it into context w/ other content on a website. Lost of potential. With FB, you cant use any valuable stream there outside. Still a walled garden.
- beersage
I have to say, time listening to the Gillmor Gang is always well spent!
- Bastian
yay sponsors!
- Karoli
bye all
- Karoli
good show
- Jamie
Hah, Kevin got cut off. That was a short edition.
- beersage
great show - I am loving the increase in quality discussion and the decrease in loud noises - thanks!
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
http://bit.ly/Spawn is Ribbit's launch next Thursday
- Kevin Marks
Defrag is week after next - agenda: http://defragcon.com/2009...
- Kevin Marks
The power of two - http://www.techcrunchit.com/2009...
Karoli, Cliff Gerrish, Aron Michalski and Warner Crocker liked this
I enjoy the shift I have to make in order to read a Steve post. It's like putting on your glasses. You just can't skim.
- Aron Michalski
Nope, you can't skim and even if you grasp the larger overview, it takes awhile to chew away at the details.
- Karoli
With that said, however...I'm struggling with the idea that the "two" are Facebook and Twitter. Neither really do the trick for me, though twitter comes closer. Friendfeed is my first place to go when i want the refuge of familiar faces and trusted voices, but I really need a way to sort everything out and make it work without being quite the distraction it is right now.
- Karoli
JQbus - Jabber chat query services - http://svn.foaf-project.org/foaftow...
Cliff Gerrish liked this
Gillmor Gang 10.22.09 - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Aron Michalski, Troy Benohanian and Jack liked this
watching this on Virgin America to LV, works fine.
- Steve Gillmor
Brian Ahier - Health IT & Healthcare Reform: Sir Tim Berners-Lee and Tim O'Reilly - http://ahier.blogspot.com/2009...
Good API design at Twitter (Scripting News) - http://www.scripting.com/stories...
Gillmor Gang 10.22.09 - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Susan Beebe, Jack, Christian Burns and 15 other people liked this
What's the topic for today?
- Matt Mastracci
Threadsy. The Gillmor Gang should be great today. Google/Mr. Softy and Tw*tter...
- Cliff Gerrish
Matt: there are too many things to talk about today. Twitter. Flickr. Windows 7. Etc Etc.
- Robert Scoble
I'm standing by waiting for the Skype call, by the way.
- Robert Scoble
Exciting week... Mainstreaming of real-time search and a new Windows rev.
- Matt Mastracci
We are connecting everyone now. Just a few more minutes and we'll be on air.
- Robert Scoble
We are live!
- Robert Scoble
Everything is dead.
- Ken Sheppardson
Long live everything
- Mike Doeff
omg - people still using FF? :)
- Nick Halstead
isn't that what Friendfeed does?
- Karoli
No, it's different, Karoli. I've also used it a bit, and it's more of a "universal inbox" than FriendFeed. It's just a client, rather than a stand-alone service.
- Ken Sheppardson
Is there a recording of the Tim Berners-Lee conversation somewhere?
- Mike Doeff
thanks, Ken. It's one of those services that definitely interests me...if I ever get in. :)
- Karoli
Nick: I still use RSS too. Saying something is dead is dead.
- Robert Scoble
"Everything is Broken" -Bob Dylan
- Jerome Hughes
We individually kill and give life to things every day. I don't use Google Reader much anymore, for instance. So to me Google Reader is dead.
- Robert Scoble
I used to think I'd want a universal inbox, but stuff like Threadsy have reminded me that I really want different "layers"/urgency in my inbox, e.g. SMS > IM > email
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert, I still use Google Reader...but only when what I'm seeing on Twitter/Friendfeed doesn't feel balanced to me. I can usually get that balance by going back to GR.
- Karoli
Karoli: lists will bring that balance to Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
Ken, I'd definitely need filters or I'd just run away from the inbox screaming...
- Karoli
I still use GR - but I have about 10 feeds - the rest I get supplied by Twitter/TweetMeme
- Nick Halstead
the issue i have with tweetmeme, etc is how easily the echo chamber develops. I love it, but want to reach outside of it for info sometimes.
- Karoli
Karoli: I agree - the core categories will always be full of the echo/main crowd - but we will soon launch the ability for you to build your own channels that are filtered to your 'exact' requirements
- Nick Halstead
Used Threadsy 2 weeks ago, and okay concept, needs work still.
- JimmyJet
In the demo yesterday, Microsoft claimed that their Bing/Twitter search results filter out spam and surfaces quality results based on "social relevance"
- Mike Doeff
because it's a beta for a few 1000s....wait for lists to be rolled out...
- Antonella Stellacci
Mike, they're weighting it based on some kind of authority?
- Karoli
so "normal" people don't want to find new friends who share their interests?
- Jerome Hughes
Whatever it is, it's got to work for 'normal' people.
- Cliff Gerrish
@mikedoeff: Who decides "social relevance"? @Scobleizer Who is to say that this "social relevance' will be a democratic system? How can we prevent a new SUL/TechCrunch to happen, with people being disqualified for having "different" views?
- Antonella Stellacci
They called it "social relevance" but didn't really drill into what that means. Maybe some combination of # of followers, number of tweets, age of the account, verified status, etc.
- Mike Doeff
When will "normal" people get access to Twitter lists? I don't have it on my account. I might start using Twitter if I did.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ah...there's the 'track' ref. It's like coming home. :)
- Karoli
Yeah, I'm not one of the cool kids who get the lists feature on Twitter. :)
- Karoli
Potential issue with Twitter lists: Someone posts a list of CIO's. Sales rep's from Oracle, SAP, etc. use that list to pitch their products to those CIO's with @messages or DM's. Or they could find all of the people inside a company by finding a company list. It'll be like a free version of Jigsaw.
- Mike Doeff
lists =meta-data....so discovery of new users is one of the options...
- Antonella Stellacci
@mike u can DM a list? (sry for the stupid question, I don't have lists :(
- Antonella Stellacci
Is there convergence on a standard for lists, or is it too early?
- Cliff Gerrish
I wonder which will win out: sending stuff out to specified groups/audiences, or just sending stuff out to "everyone", and having whatever permissions you've assigned to specific people determine whether or not they see it. I guess it's the same thing. Nevermind. ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Antonella, you can't DM a list but it's an easy way to collect twitter id's in a specific niche. You can go down the list and follow people individually.
- Mike Doeff
thanks Mike.
- Antonella Stellacci
Adding real username/URLs to Facebook was remedial.
- Ken Sheppardson
Cliff: Twitter will be the defacto list standard almost overnight.
- Robert Scoble
Mike: yes, @reply spam is a big problem. One that's solveable, though.
- Robert Scoble
Certainly, Identi.ca will follow suit, but will Facebook?
- Cliff Gerrish
And Mike, if a major company did @reply spam they would see a huge negative PR backlash.
- Robert Scoble
I wouldn't be so sure about Identica. Their feature set has already diverged from Twitter's. e.g. Groups http://identi.ca/doc/groups
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken, they'll have to support both.
- Cliff Gerrish
Robert, I agree - would be a very bad move if PR firm, sales people, etc. abuse the lists features. They'll end up on a PR Twitter blacklist :)
- Mike Doeff
It centralizes with the user -- not with the services. This ties in to the purpose-centric web and the sidewiki discussion.
- Cliff Gerrish
So Threadsy isn't a service? Where's the line between services and clients?
- Ken Sheppardson
So will we see search come to Threadsy streams?
- JimmyJet
Is FriendFeed a client or a service?
- Ken Sheppardson
Mint is a front end to Yodlee.
- Cliff Gerrish
Kevin - send video.
- Cliff Gerrish
How long will it take Google to kill Threadsy with Gmail?
- Ken Sheppardson
Private room, Robert.
- Ken Sheppardson
Wonʻt Wave to that?
- Arnie Klaus
Robert: Click on your entry, click "Edit > Disable Comments"
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: no. I want my curation to be public. Arnie: Wave could be useful.
- Robert Scoble
Ken: if I turned off comments I won't have the ability to type anything underneath the item.
- Robert Scoble
Arnie: Wave would be useful if it weren't stuck in the very lame email metaphor.
- Robert Scoble
But is that all you want to do? Be able to add comments to your post without other people being able to do so? I'm a little confused...
- Ken Sheppardson
Arnie: Wave is something I'm watching a lot.
- Robert Scoble
Ken: I want to curate and put it on MY OWN STREAM. Without you being there.
- Robert Scoble
..or you want to use FriendFeed as a text editor?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: FriendFeed doesn't work for what I want.
- Robert Scoble
Ken: FriendFeed got close, though.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, as long as none of us have to read it. Go ahead and make your own stream.
- Cliff Gerrish
I keep hearing you say that, Robert. I'm trying to understand exactly what it means. What about a private room/group?
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert: I see a connect between Wave and the Twitter deal achieving curation
- Arnie Klaus
Ken: now you understannd why I'm so frustrated with FriendFeed. It won't get many new features.
- Robert Scoble
Arnie: me too.
- Robert Scoble
Wave traps me...I want the ability to opt out of specific waves.
- Karoli
Ken: Private groups don't do what I want. I want a public curation where everyone can watch JUST ME.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Would "only let me comment on this entry" do it?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: very close. But now we need to go further. Let me post a video there. An audio there. A picture there. And bring in other tweets and items.
- Robert Scoble
The reality is that no one's interested in 'only scoble' -- everyone wants to create their own mix.
- Cliff Gerrish
Robert: So... a room where only admins (i.e. you) can post and comment, but everyone can view?
- Ken Sheppardson
Cliff: absolutely not true. My blog proves you wrong.
- Robert Scoble
Ken: now you are getting there.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I'm only interested in certain posts from your blog. I don't need the whole stream. You're in my mix, you just don't know it.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: and to rub salt in a wound. Twitter proves you wrong.
- Robert Scoble
Every time Steve says, "Rob?" - I start to answer :)
- Rob La Gesse
Cliff: that's cool. So you are listening to a group curation then.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: That's a pretty minor incremental fix, I'd think. Right now there are three types of rooms 1) Private, 2) Standard only admins can post, anyone can comment, 3) Public. Seems like a fourth type where only admins can post/comment but everyone can view would be pretty easy.
- Ken Sheppardson
Hope Threadsy has security for the UN's/PW's they require for each service??
- JimmyJet
Scoble, yes. I use a microcommunity to filter items -- not full feeds.
- Cliff Gerrish
Ken: even easy stuff takes engineering time.
- Robert Scoble
Threadsy in Chrome gets a basic auth pop up from twitter.com for my API credentials every time it tries to access Twitter :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Cliff: I know. I have seen this. Sort of like how TechMeme works.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Sure, but asking Paul to add a fourth room type sure seems easier than casting out some general lazyweb request for curation tools ;-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Scoble, techmeme is read only. This is a little different.
- Cliff Gerrish
Ken: FriendFeed has no engineering team working on many new features. I've already asked for new features. I've been asking for this stuff for years.
- Robert Scoble
Ken: Threadsy in Chrome (4): I am no longer getting a request to relog or give permission to twitter. refreshing auto like it should
- amarquart
Does Facebook still prevent developers from caching data for more than 24hrs?
- Ken Sheppardson
Threadsy seems to define the pipe that exists between services. The Oauth issue is critical -- it comes bak to identity.
- Cliff Gerrish
Ken: I believe so.
- Robert Scoble
Windows is dead.
- Ken Sheppardson
Flickr is dead.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: Windows is Amazon's top seller. I want to be dead like that.
- Robert Scoble
Scoble, we are already giving curated content e.g. this channel that is defined by 20 of the top Twitterati - http://twitterati.tweetmeme.com/ - soon these channels can be built by anyone
- Nick Halstead
Ok - i didnt get in on this till now - will it be archived?
- Chris Jackson
Yeah, it'll be published to YouTube in a day or so.
- Cliff Gerrish
Nick: that's not really what I want?
- Robert Scoble
ok
- Chris Jackson
Any timeframe from Twitter on when us lowly masses will get lists?
- Ken Sheppardson
im still waiting for twitter lists to hit my account.
- Chris Jackson
let them eat cake! classic.
- amarquart
Ken: a few weeks.
- Robert Scoble
Can I trade Wave invites for List access?
- Ken Sheppardson
RSS???
- Ken Sheppardson
Steve and Robert - the Gillmor Gang has become my most favorite source of social news and trends watch.
- Chris Jackson
Thanks Chris!
- Robert Scoble
:) funny Ken
- Chris Jackson
Translation: No idea.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: translation: "FriendFeed is not worth wasting engineering effort on."
- Robert Scoble
Does Threadsy have any sort of Activitystrea.ms support?
- Ken Sheppardson
Ken: I don't know.
- Robert Scoble
Thanks, great show.
- JimmyJet
Thanks to Steve and all, nice to finally catch the show in real time again!
- Jerome Hughes
Good show
- Eric Logan
very good show...wish my phone hadn't rung at the end, but I still got my fix :)
- Karoli
The after show is pretty good too. Marks: why doesn't Twitter have searched scoped to the people I follow?
- Cliff Gerrish
Missed it again. I'll be back.
- Matt Terenzio
RSS?? (which we all know is dead, ..but still); mp3 ?? Steve, I understand your effort to make a point by inconveniencing us with lack of rss, I get it, but from that stage further it is just pain in the a**.
- Mindaugas Dagys
Thanks Ken, but the last bootleg there at the moment is GillmorGang2009.10.15
- Mindaugas Dagys
The RSS feed for the Youtube channel is http://gdata.youtube.com/feeds... and after a new show is uploaded there, I'll update the bootleg feed
- Jack
The Beatles (White Album) - Disc 1 - http://www.upv.es/~ecabre...
Abbey Road - http://www.norwegianwood.org/beatles...
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