Q1: October 23, 2009 - Is an organization's culture a factor in how successful their ability to adopt social media & participate is? Does there need to be a culture shift? Who should lead it?
Leaders need to get it, too. They have to understand pros/cons, speak to the organization's need to hear and participate in conversation about the brand/company.
- Star Aasved
I think a culture shift will need to happen if the organization is used to being closed or if they are very concerned with control. As far as leading it, I think those that are passionate and who 'get' social should be at the helm, regardless of title, if they can prove their chops (ie: already active with a community/ don't spam/ understand how social fits within a strategy).
- Tanya McGinnity
I think the higher the buy-in comes from the better. That said if you force community management on someone who doesn't want the job the results are sure to be less than optimal.
- Arié Moyal
If you need to shift culture in order to be successful, you may be setting yourself up for failure.
- Robert Swanwick
The culture needs to shift from "Don;t tell anyone what we're doing and push product" to "be transparent and engage"
- Arié Moyal
@ Robert Disagree That's like saying getting people to buy wordprocessors in the 80s was impossible if the culture needed shifting
- Arié Moyal
Arié, agreed. And that's not a huge shift, IMO -- again, it's based on understanding what social media can do for the organization.
- Star Aasved
Social Media can appeal to different cultures in different ways: listening, sharing, measuring, etc...
- Robert Swanwick
Not necessarily, but I think it would depend on their expectations. Have their set realistic goals for what they want to achieve by participating in SM and online communities
- Sue
Some companies don;t need SM for community management They do just as well if not better with direct marketing
- Arié Moyal
With the team I work with, they have expressed that they get overwhelmed because the term social media sounds so vast to them. It's really important like Sue mentioned to set realistic goals.
- Tanya McGinnity
@Arie: Sounds like the choice of social media depends on the culture of the community? The type of buyer/end user you're trying to appeal to.
- Bryan Person
@ Bryan That and the product Some products just sell better offline
- Arié Moyal
@Arie: Of course. Plus, most word of mouth happens offline. The social media work is all for a small piece of the total pie.
- Bryan Person
@Arie, @Star Leadership by example is a very powerful way to get people off the fence and contributing. A little peer pressure never hurts, either.
- Lou Ordorica
@Tanya I agree. Some don't realize even the small thing of having a conversation with a customer can be seen as SM. They think SM is a magic pill or something, and don't think about it at its basic level - eg relationships.
- Sue
@Sue I have started a social media saturation count down clock. People are getting impatient to get past the hype, and see real change to their day-to-day businesses.
- Lou Ordorica
People are still saying there is no money in SM - I disagree, it's just that there is no direct marketing in SM. Well there is, it's just SPAM
- Arié Moyal
But I know that my friend Claire who is the Director of the International Climate Change Programme at WWF started tweeting on her own before she was able to get them to adopt a more SM approach
- Arié Moyal
@Lou, yes there does seem to be a lot of hype doesn't there. I think that is what puts some companies off, they think its more complicated than it really is.
- Sue
Lou, good point though I think it's not just day-to-day, but over the longer haul that is really of benefit to business if we are looking at the big picture.
- Star Aasved
@ Bryan A lot of people forget that social media is a tool for conversation not a magic pill
- Arié Moyal
Back to the culture shift. I think that it can be hard for some companies to want to speak with their customers because they are afraid of the repercussions. They don't want to get in trouble with the boss and they're not used to being told that it's OK for them to be open (within limits)
- Tanya McGinnity
@Tanya, I think fears can be curtailed with clearly communicating social discourse guidelines and training (rule #1: don't get fired). There will always be corner cases, though.
- Lou Ordorica
I don't think you can get much backlash from engaging unless you or the company have been "asking for it"
- Arié Moyal
I think that for some, being social online may have been spoiled by having been roughed up in forums where there may not have been a community manager. Just speaking in terms of one staffer who had a bad experience on a film forum.
- Tanya McGinnity
@ Tanya Fair enough but then that person may not be suited to a CM role
- Arié Moyal
@Tanya - managing a forum myself I can relate to that.
- Sue
@Arie I'm not saying the person is to be a CM, I'm referring to folks who do SM in our org. If they can't handle forum abuse then they are certainly not cut out for the CM role :)
- Tanya McGinnity
@ Tanya I guess I'm doing it all so for me it falls under CM
- Arié Moyal
Hi! Thanks for joining us for CmtyChat this Friday. Feel free to introduce yourselves here, The topic I've chosen is Culture shift required. Let's talk about the internal culture required for comm mgrs to be successful.
Hello Rob Swanwick. Founder of Speaker Interactive and twebevent. Currently working on a drupal platform to support Chat communities (mostly Twitter chat)
- Robert Swanwick
Hey Connie! Looking forward to an interesting chat :)
- Arié Moyal
RANDOM: October 23, 2009 - Here's the thread where you can introduce yourselves and your community, and suggest questions for the wider group. Anything else goes, too!
Q2: October 16, 2009 - Some companies/employees would rather prefer a '2-headed monster' for their CM role. How do they balance 2 CMs and their responsibilities? Can a community connect with 2 separate faces to the company?
As a community user, I wouldn't have a problem with there being multiple managers as long as they worked together and didn't have different rule sets.
- Michelle
@Michelle - do responsibilities stay the same w/only difference being their hours? Or are co's better suited to address specific responsibilities for the two?
- Sonny Gill
LOL 1 I think it is more bang for their buck, 2: They may not take the web seriously and understand it's potential, it's more of an after thought. I believe that communities look for more than 1 face, I believe it shows them there are people, it is a team, a group
- lizGreaux
I could see non time critical responsibilities being split up but things like responding to spam, trolling, etc, would need to be done by both when each is on his/her "shift"
- Michelle
I think you would have to have one of the CM's as the "Senior" CM, otherwise it could get difficult if they had the same responsibilities but had different ideas on how the community should be supported.
- Sue
I don't see it as a 2-headed monster. Running a community by oneself can be quite a burden, so sharing the responsibilities and hours I imagine would be very helpful. I don't do much beyond comment moderation.censoring in my job, though.
- John F. O'Sullivan
I think a "good" (for lack of a better term) company can spot strengths and weaknesses among their employees, and use that to their advantage
- lizGreaux
@liz - we'd all hope companies understand what communities are looking from them and their CM. Unfortunately not all see it as such, but good people like those in this chat are definitely helping pave the way.
- Sonny Gill
I should clarify - I don't see it being any more of an issue that working together with coworkers in any other job.
- John F. O'Sullivan
I think it is useful when having multiple cmty managers to have identified areas of expertise but also different hours to handle general tasks
- Rachel Happe
@Sue - I like that idea and thought. Very true that different ideals for each CM would show up if they had exactly same responsibilities.
- Sonny Gill
So for example, one community manager may be the legal/IP expert, one a content expert, one an events, etc. or however the team skills break down. And letting the community know that will self filter some of the content flow appropriately
- Rachel Happe
@John, I agree with you, we are no different than any other professional, the only difference is the venue on which we work
- lizGreaux
@Rachel - that type of breakup is important, and even more so to communicate that with the cmty so they know who to go to for what.
- Sonny Gill
I work with multiple community managers. We use Radian6 work process and CoTweet to coordinate our work assignments so that we speak with only one voice on any issue.
- Joseph Thornley
From the company's point of view maybe they could have one CM and perhaps a couple of paid moderators that perhaps covered "off-hours"?
- Sue
@liz Yup. Apart from looking at what employees can offer, also good to look at what community members can offer. Some of them are good leaders and are more than happy to share some responsibilities in helping to manage the community.
- Patricia Ooi
@Sue I think that is an important point, CM's are just that "managers" and as a manager it is important to manage people, moderators, etc.
- lizGreaux
From a management perspective one person has never been able to encompass all the skills needed to effectively manage community at a large org - always need to be the facilitator/ombudsperson to get the right skill set to properly address a topic. Those other people may be product people, support people etc... and they should be helping to manage the community
- Rachel Happe
@Joseph - does that process create a seamless environment with your CMs? Any issues that arise?
- Sonny Gill
@patricia yes some members really love being able to have hand in helping out.
- Sue
A community has a plethora of roles. The Manager is just one. Other possible ones include the evangelizer, the librarian, etc.... Wenger has some good thoughts on this.
- Robert Swanwick
@Rachel - so more of an integration within the entire business vs. just one or multiple Community Managers?
- Sonny Gill
@Sonny one thing we definitely try an encourage cmty managers to do is to think that they are a cross-functional team lead and not responsible for all the activity themselves... but the orchestrater of that activity
- Rachel Happe
Right on - I think that's an important aspect to understand for CMs but also social media and related folks in the digital space. Silos need to be broken down for the business to be able to function with all members on board and understanding the co's goals.
- Sonny Gill
Some of the best community work I did was as a team of three FT CMs. Over time, we specialized, but worked tightly so we could back up each other's work.
- Scott Moore
@Scott - that's great to hear you and 2 others were able to work cohesively but with your own specialties.
- Sonny Gill
@Sonny this is making me thing I should write up some stories about that team. All three of us were hyper-aware of conflict management and group facilitation so communication was high quality and high quantity.
- Scott Moore
@Scott - that would be good to see how the team functioned, responsibilities, how they were each unique but also integrated.
- Sonny Gill
Q1 - September 18, 2009 - So let's getting rolling on the topic of rewarding your community members. How do you do that in your community, or what are some good examples you've seen of this elsewhere?
in our community, we use points & levels unlocking control to different areas of the site, we send direct messages to members to let them know we are happy with their participation and we promote the quality uploads on air
- Megan
Reward them with freebies & by making them the first to know, also give them opportunities to express themselves and yes recognition is probably the most important
- babytel inc
Generally, when it comes to rewards, people want more fame, more power or money. Tie a reward in to one of them and most rewards work well.
- Richard Millington
@babytel - is your community branded, and what types of freebies do you give away?
- Starwind
Do you publish a "system" for rewards?
- Joe Kikta
Highlight them in editorial or programs the other members will see. It comes down to recognition and status.
- Jim Storer
@Bryan we have a professional B2B community and I get asked a lot for references for speakers, job prospects, etc that I pass along appropriately.
- Rachel Happe
Offer them authority and a chance to lead.
- Lou Ordorica
Oops didn;t realise I was logged in as babytel - This is Arié Moyal @amoyal
- babytel inc
One idea I've been sharing is to reward users with their own forum - has anyone used this technique?
- Starwind
At UNHCR we can write personal thank you notes from high-up people. We can even give them as certificates/framed.
- Richard Millington
I like @Richard's distinction between prizes and rewards. May expand on that in another question.
- Bryan Person
As well as public praise, recognition and highlighting them in our article section, I also try and thank them privately. They appreciate me taking the time to contact them behind the scenes
- Sue
@Richard I really like the thank you note concept - have been thinking of doing the same but... have had time issues with it
- Rachel Happe
@Arie: No problem. Your contributions are welcomed under either name!
- Bryan Person
Rachel, same here. It's not easier to get our high commissioner (the former prime minister of portugal) to write thank you notes :-)
- Richard Millington
@Starwind: Their own forum? Can you say some more about that?
- Bryan Person
@Richard Great way to honor contribution.
- Lou Ordorica
Another reward in our community is to ask a valued member to be a moderator.
- Sue
@Rich: Are they writing the notes themselves, or are they, ahem, ghostwritten thank-you notes? :)
- Bryan Person
@Richard well, I'm really not that important, but thanks for the compliment :-) lol
- Rachel Happe
@starwind We are currently focused on the community around our facebook app so basically the Fan Page for the app
- Arié Moyal
@sue - i like the behind the scenes thank you. so we should change the adage to "praise in public AND private... criticize in private ONLY"
- Jim Storer
@sue Yes, this also give you an opportunity to meet them over the phone or F2F and build a stronger relationship
- Lou Ordorica
@Joe I'd say full disclosure of certain rewards yes but not always Don't limit the things they can do to get rewarded They might find ways you didn;t think of to add value
- Arié Moyal
@Arie: Want to share the link to your Facebook Page? Could be helpful for the group.
- Bryan Person
Providing the community has forum capabilities, reward an outstanding contributor with a forum they can use as their own "soapbox" of sorts - sharing their take as it relates to the community purpose. Stimulate them to ask questions, respond to other users, guide the conversation.
- Starwind
There are lots of ways to acknowledge people - your time (phone call), promoting content, making connections, providing opportunities. Key is listening for what they need.
- Rachel Happe
I generally find the best rewards should be more or less free in expense - but invaluable to the recipient. So awarding titles like "product advisor" or "digital champion" etc work well.
- Richard Millington
I think contests also work to encourage participation - You can usually gague not just people who sumbit but those who vote, comment, promote through contests
- Arié Moyal
@Arié How are you rewarding the fan page members?
- Starwind
Rewards and incentives vary greatly by the size of the community and what managers have capacity for - service levels
- Rachel Happe
@Rachel: I've seen a few blog posts lately talking about the value of handwritten thank-you notes. Wonder how that scales in a community?
- Bryan Person
@Starwind Our freebies are months up to 12 of our premium service
- Arié Moyal
@Richard Yup. Titles & badges work really well in a community.
- Patricia Ooi
give them an opportunity to showcase their expertise... kind of like why we're all here today. ;-)
- Jim Storer
Bryan, scaling is overrated. It's not important that everyone gets a thank you note. It's important that everyone knows they CAN get a thank you note if they are in the top {x} members. That knowledge is often more important than the reward itself.
- Richard Millington
@Arié Are you finding a good response to that?
- Starwind
@Bryan that, I think, is one of the scale things - in a big b2c community, thank yous maybe to VIP volunteers but you simply couldn't do more
- Rachel Happe
@Rachel, I like how you addressed "listening to what they need." By responding to that need in a positive way it becomes a type of reward too.
- Sue
@Jim, on that note. Is this the platform that provides the most exposure?
- Robert Swanwick
@Jim, Agree. Spotlight active members on the home page is a tremendous ego boost and makes your leaders feel even more invested in the community.
- Lou Ordorica
@Sue yes, listening well and responding specifically is a 'gift' if you will
- Rachel Happe
If you need to talk to them on the phone consider using our facebook app hehe ;)
- Arié Moyal
I've also started giving people virtual cheeseheads - a bit dorky but a special acknowledgement
- Rachel Happe
Eve Online, an mmorpg, flies top members to meet with the developers of the game in Iceland. That's pretty darned cool. Can't imagine the CFO is too fond of that exercise mind.
- Richard Millington
@robert - not sure what you're asking. is FF the right/most visible venue for #cmtychat?
- Jim Storer
Yeah give them swag even virtual swag, a badge etc
- Arié Moyal
What about giving top members discounts on buying the products/services your organization offers?
- Richard Millington
If you're managing a branded site, are you giving away product-related rewards? Coupons, small product samples, other swag?
- Starwind
@Richard I think that works The idea is to make them feel involved and important - Is the end to turn them in evangelists?
- Arié Moyal
I've started a new Q2 thread about dangers of reward systems.
- Bryan Person
@Richard gets to an important point - which are reward levels - rewards should match the contribution level
- Rachel Happe
But you can continue the discussion here, too. It's a good one!
- Bryan Person
Arié from the developer's point of view, I think it is less about turning the top members into evangelists (they probably already are) and more about encouraging others to copy the actions of the top members so they can get the reward too.
- Richard Millington
Have different platforms/stages to promote people to is important. MTV does this with online winners... promotes them to the cable programming
- Rachel Happe
Yes that's a great idea, the more they contribute/post/evangelize the bigger the discounts/coupons they could get.
- Sue
@RacheL Love the virtual cheesehead rewards!
- Bryan Person
@Bryan thanks - we're a start up so...maybe we'll get to the physical cheeseheads but in the meantime... :)
- Rachel Happe
@Jim if exposure for our expertise is what we are all seeking, is FF maximizing that. It may be more reliable and better interface than Twitter, but if it is decreasing exposure may not be the optimal platform. Just tossing it out for discussion.
- Robert Swanwick
Haha Rachel, now THAT's a business goal! :)
- Arié Moyal
@Robert: Reccomend using today's RANDOM stream for that
- Arié Moyal
@Arie lol - I'm pondering a note on my office wall now. "Real Cheeseheads" :)
- Rachel Happe
@Robert: My take after several weeks of this is that FriendFeed allows us to go deeper on topics, but we aren't getting as much exposure as we would if we were in Twitter.
- Bryan Person
Maybe we just need to pimp the chat more on Twitter and elsewhere. I think once people participate they will enjoy the interface and discussion and come back. Give it time to build.
- Joe Kikta
@Joe I love this interface for the purposes of this chat!
- Arié Moyal
i feel prizes are going by the wayside. its better to promote a members reputation. anyone else agree?
- Megan
Reputation/recommendations are really the biggest forms of currency in SM.
- Joe Kikta
@Megan I think people still like to get a gift even if it is not the main reward
- Arié Moyal
Yes, you are so right, members value reputation a lot. If they make a great post there is nothing better than to receive recognition from another member for it.
- Sue
@Joe In the SM professionals bubble yes but not always outside of it
- Arié Moyal
@Arie As SM gains more popularity this will begin to spill over more.
- Joe Kikta
@Joe Not everyone who uses SM cares about SM They might just care about the info they can get through SM Not everyone wants their name in lights
- Arié Moyal
@Arie Maybe not in lights, but recognition within their chosen community...I think everybody appreciates that.
- Joe Kikta
@Joe Isn't that "in lights" too? In the context of the community?
- Arié Moyal
@Arie It is, but you specifically referenced SM prof and the SM space, so I thought you had expanded the recognition outside just that community. I think everybody, even the blushers/anti-recognition-types like recognition on some level. They just don't want to admit it.
- Joe Kikta
1) Home 2) Food 3) Jewish New Year 4) Facebook Pages
- babytel inc
#assnchat was talking about how to build community around events this week. They could probably use some of the expertise from this group.
- Robert Swanwick
By the way, I've started to see a few examples of the #CmtyChat hashtag being used on Twitter for events other than this chat. Probably a good thing - we've made an impact!
- Bryan Person
@Robert: Invite the folks from #ASNChat to come in and take a look at what we're up to!
- Bryan Person
Using friendfeed over twitter has the distinct advantage of being able to see thereaded comments easily and not lose these tweets later
- Arié Moyal
@robert @arie i prefer FF over twitter for these chats (threading, platform stability) and think we get good enough participation. i'm here for education more than exposure anyhow.
- Jim Storer
@Jim: That's exactly our thinking right now. If we want to bring in more participants, we can always go a little heavier on the promotion :)
- Bryan Person
By the way, Sonny Gill obviously couldn't make it today, but he sends his hello to everyone.
- Bryan Person
@Bryan I see how it is, I finally can make it and he doesn't show - I guess I'll have to settle for just you guys (Kidding!)
- Arié Moyal
Tod, thx for the interest. This is a segment of event professionals that meets twice a week through a Twitter Chat. Thus, they are already hyper SM-savvy. See http://eventprofs.pbworks.com for details. Let me know what topic you would like to present.
- Robert Swanwick
@Robert: Here's the process: I used an iPhone app called AudioBoo to do the recording. It posted public audio file: http://audioboo.fm/boos.... Then I downloaded the .mp3 file onto my desktop and uploaded it to FriendFeed (attached it using the "Files" link).
- Bryan Person
Nice job. I am currently looking for an app that will take voicemail which anyone can call and convert it into an RSS stream. Solution for audio commenting. Your system is great, but I need ultra-simple.
- Robert Swanwick
Very interesting topic. I work within a community and would love to hear more about responding to personal crises such as suicide threats. I like to think I'd be prepared, but through sharing our experiences in this format, I'll be able to discover if that's truly the case. Thanks for this session.
- Tanya McGinnity
@Tanya: Hope you can join us this afternoon, then?
- Bryan Person
@Robert Stanwick: I use Utterli to call in audio posts and have them cross-post to my blog. It's picked up in the RSS feed over there. I'm interested in checking out AudioBoo, though.
- Daniel Johnson, Jr.
Thanks so much Paul. Have a few more questions about speaker #'s, does your wife know right person at NSA to call? What percentage of Pro Speakers are NSA members? How do non-member speaker fees compare to member speaker fees?
- Robert Swanwick
This presentation is one of the best I have seen in a very long time. I highly recommend it as a quality investment of time. You will learn about the way our laws are allowing for a conflict between creativity and copyright in the digital age.
- Robert Swanwick
Inteview Don Graham, CEO of Washington Post, now on Board of Directors for Facebook (mentor to Matt Z). I have his email, he's a friend of mine on Facebook now. I am trying to get him on Friendfeed and twitter...bet you could do much better than me at that!!! -
- Susan Beebe
Allow me to express a dissenting view: if you loved the Iraq War, and the way that neocons have corrupted and dragged down the American mainstream media, you'll love Donald Graham, who gave Fred Hiatt, Charles Krauthammer, Robert Kagan and other prominent ringleaders of the war a prominent platform in the Washington Post. His association with Facebook is as alarming as Rupert Murdoch's with Myspace. They are members of the same small club of neocon oligarchs. Talk about the failure of the leadership class.
- Sean McBride
Susan: I had dinner with Don Graham a few years back. He's smart and would be an interesting interview. Especially because of Sean's points.
- Robert Scoble
Robert -- I wonder if there is a diplomatic way to slip in a few of those points through the back door. :) Probably not. Sore subjects, but absolutely necessary subjects for the rest of us to be thinking about.
- Sean McBride
Actually, I would love it if you could interview one or two guys from PC Mag to get their take on the collapse of print journalism. Not exactly on topic per CES, but interesting to me at least (as a journalism major, one of my goals was/is to work at PC Mag).
- Jacob Nahin
By the way, Glenn Greenwald, in his blog posts on Fred Hiatt, has done an excellent job in explicating the problems with Donald Graham's management of the Washington Post http://www.google.com/search...
- Sean McBride
perhaps someone from Kodak and their digital frame business. Just bought the W1020 that hooks in to my Flickr account and would like to know Kodak's stance on internet-connected devices.
- Randy Ksar
from twhirl
lots of people to interview here, next time you come to NC...
- Bora Zivkovic
George Oates who was laid off from flickr.
- Thomas Hawk
Mark: I've learned that EVERYONE is in that position. Including me.
- Robert Scoble
Andrew; In all truthfullness with him have ad spots he want the stats on how many people are downloading his podcast a day or how many are coming back. That's probably the truth of the matter!! So he can have advertising stats for advertisers!
- Paul