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Swaroop › Comments
Sascha Silberholz Wasek, gmarketer, April Russo (app103) and 130 other people liked this
Just, you know, trying to break the internet and stuff...
- Josh Haley
Interesting..
- Jon, the Chilled Beartato
super
- K.D.
You spin me right round, baby Right round like a record, baby Right round, round, round
- pea
the guy in the middle is behind :0
- jcunwired
...hahahahahaha! very amusing. i could watch this for hours and hours....
- .LAG liked that
LMAO!
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
wINAGE
- Johnny Worthington
i don't know about hours and hours but it is mysteriously fascinating.
- pea
ohh trippy
- Jay
mommy make it stop.
- Jim Halligan @jim
这是啥么意思？
- FlyMeToTheMoon
Um, yes, this is what I mean?
- Josh Haley
@flytothemoon 看这个 https://friendfeed.com/junrxu... 他这是gif版本的，看起有点晕：）
- K.D.
Wooop wooopp woooppp
- Mo Kargas
Dude, quit jacking up the tubes!
- Brett Kelly
from iPhone
Oh my... yup, just oh my!
- Rachel Lea Fox
holy moly... this is what you do when i skype with my mom?
- Trish Haley
O
- sean percival
M
- sean percival
G
- sean percival
Maybe I should have added some music to go with it all. Hi honey. I'm not bored, honest!
- Josh Haley
I leave you guys alone for a few hours and THIS happens! What did you do to him?!?
- vijay
i'm getting dizzy... and now we're talking about MJ dying... :(
- Trish Haley
DIZZY ASS SHIT.
- Caroline
going by the view stats on twitpic, the middle dude is the most popular! =P
- vijay
We hate that one. He gets all the attention.
- Josh Haley
they ALL freak me out.
- Tim Hoeck
I'm feeling a little nauseated.
- Anne Bouey
+Anne--Right about the time I forget about this, it shows up again. Too funny.
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
interesting. I've tried a few times to get animated images to work on FF without success.. I guess piping it through twitpic might be the answer!
- veo
veo, yeah Twitpic, RSS (MediaRSS), Delicious, Tumblr all seem to work. There are more than that but those come to mind.
- Josh Haley
can i get this as a screen saver?
- Joshua Schnell
Sure, how's $200 sound?
- Josh Haley
sembrano le mie palle che girano ... ops lo sapevate che ho tre coglioni ?
- Ilbellodelweb
translation of ^^^ "my balls seem to run ... ops did you know that I have three hilt?" I think I need another translator.
- Josh Haley
nope.. that sounds about right ;)
- Tim Hoeck
اسکل
- Mil∂d
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winneh!
- Christopher Harley
you evil genius!
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
Feeling a little dizzy?
- Kevin J Hatton
Just one question, Josh: are you by chance spinning on 9 different Aeron chairs that were a steal after the first dot-com bubble burst? The future of the internets: you're looking at it =)
- Micah Wittman
Bingo!
- Josh Haley
could anybody describe how to create such a picture? thx
- Arnaud Fischer
Arnaud, see http://friendfeed.com/mokarga... for tips. And Josh correct me if I'm wrong, he uploaded to Twitpic the same animated GIF 9 times, then created a friendfeed post and attached all 9 images by URL (instead of choosing images from his hard drive). Images coming from twitpic, soup.io, etc will animate, but photos hosted by friendfeed itself won't.
- Micah Wittman
Hahaha, nice :)
- Simon Wicks
Sir... my muse
- Johnny Worthington
@Micah: awesome, thanks!
- Arnaud Fischer
Did not sleep well with all the spinning. :p
- Josh Haley
from iPhone
It's infinitely more amusing when they don't all load at the same time. Spinning chaos!!!
- CAJ, somewhere else
Why the friendfeed limitation on animated .gifs? It seems arbitrary and odd to me. I could see wanting to limit filesize (animated .gifs can get large) but you can upload huge .jpgs without any trouble.
- veo
@_@
- Live4Emma (L4S)
Mesmerizing like a lava lamp. Hey! You are a 'Lame-o Lamp'! And you might want to call the folks in the makeup department and get that forehead de-sheened. Remember, your forehead is an alternate landing site for the Space Shuttle - And you don't want to blind the crew on their final approach, do you? :-)
- Morgan Haley
Good luck trying to land anything on that while it's moving. :p I can always count on my brother.
- Josh Haley
/ : )
- © D/\\/IIID ℠ ®
Hypnotic!
- Gordon Herd
ay tweetted 17 hours nonstop
- Petr Buben
Without clicking on 57 comments, it's probably been said but 'Hair cut.'
- beersage
Is that a question or a remark, beersage? And why not read comments before you comment?
- Josh Haley
You spin me right round, baby Right round like a record, baby Right round, round, round You spin me right round, baby
- BEX
This is warping my brain
- Alex Scoble
aaaaccckkkkkk!
- AJ Batac
OMG! That should be the next installment at some fluecy deucy art museum!!! AWESOME. :) It's like whack-a-mole... I keep trying to figure out which one will show your face next and for some reason I'm always wrong.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Thanks, Lindsay! :) I think that's the first time someone described wanting to systematically hit me on the head repeatedly, yet have it come off as a compliment. I would love to take credit like I was Andy Warhol or something, but alas I was just tired and felt like doing something silly. :p
- Josh Haley
from iPhone
yep, what Lindsay said. That was one of the first bona-fide instances I've seen of using Friendfeed as a medium for net art. You could get in the Whitney & stuff. GOOD JOB
- Kamilah Gill
LOL! I actually didn't mean it the way it came out (the hitting you on the head part, the compliment part is ok ;)). But I'm in tears laughing when I read your reply. Whack-a-mole always frustrated the heck out of me... I did a lot more staring than hitting when I tried to play. It was mesmerizing.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Mil∂d :))))))
- © D/\\/IIID ℠ ®
جلال بیا این اسکل رو بببین
- Mil∂d
شبیه پاپک هست
- Mil∂d
:))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) میلی نکبت
- Papak
feeling dizzy !
- Swaroop
don't laugh now, but i'm in the process of making this a screensaver!
- Joshua Schnell
I gotta see that!
- Josh Haley
WANT
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
funy !
- سیدیونس
*splodes*
- Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕
Hypnotic, eerie, dare I go so far as to say "scary"? I dare not, lol
- Slappy Line
You just did. ;)
- Josh Haley
from iPhone
you wait - the scary part of this comes when one of these ffoodoo heads stops turning, starts grimmacing and talking to you ..... have you seen one of these heads actually get up off the chair and curse the world??? ... the seeming dissynchronicity, the haphazard discord with which these dollheads turn might drive you ...nuts
- Petr Buben
inquietante...
- Miketrevis
How can you not like this? I wish I knew!
- Goran Zec
The middle one KNOWS something.
- Goran Zec
:(
- Josh Haley
ya done broke it. . . . head is spinnin'.
- Rob Schieber
It's my birthday and I'll spin if i want to.
- Josh Haley
Happy birthday Josh!!!!!!!!!
- Rachael Worthington
from iPhone
why do you spin right?? why not left? you should spin left ..... its your party, so spin. but balance it reasonably..
- Petr Buben
you remind me of six apostles showing the time .... showing up spinning on top of the hour ......
more...
- Petr Buben
Ahhhh...the Spinning Haley...yes, I am smiling again. Thank you good people. :-)
- Mathew A. Koeneker
If you hit escape, I might stop spinning.
- Josh Haley
There is no escape!
- Micah Wittman
.
- سیدیونس
AYBABTU
- Josh Haley
To everything - turn, turn, turn // There is a season - turn, turn, turn...
- Micah Wittman
Chrome OS will help kill Silverlight and other non-open tech, preventing msft and others from recapturing the web. (though I expect that it will support Flash by necessity)
ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0,, Charles Frith, Vladimir Yashnikov and 149 other people liked this
Good point.
- Robert Scoble
I hope it doesn't. After all we need good media delivery platforms.
- Swaroop
Including GNASH - the open source alternative - would solve that problem
- Bogdan Costea
yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it.
- Zio Bonino
Chrome OS might be a compelling case for SVG/<canvas> + <audio> tag replacements for flash. Dunno what SVG's perf is like on WebKit tho.
- Matt Mastracci
Microsoft will port it. It's all about codecs & DRM. Ogg Theora isn't all that great.
- Rodfather
Is that Steve Jobs disguised as Zio ?
- Swaroop
@Swaroop Yes, we do. Like HTML5.
- Benjamin Dobson
@Swaroop eh eh, I've got flash disabled on all my systems :)
- Zio Bonino
@Benjamin I'd prefer HTML web apps over native apps anyday. But it'll take time for it to mature
- Swaroop
Rodfather, I don't think that will be an option for msft :). If Chrome is built the way I would do it, there is no installation per-se -- everything runs in the browser and the config in stored in the cloud (and cached locally). The computer is a pure appliance.
- Paul Buchheit
@Zio You're the real Steve Jobs
- Swaroop
Microsoft moves much too slow to force new standards these days.
- Louis Gray
@Louis: IE8 flunking ACID test :)
- Swaroop
What about more standard codecs like h.264? That isn't open and is in hardware already.
- Rodfather
h.264 is established and must be in there, but it's not a platform like Silverlight is.
- Paul Buchheit
I know some of the guys behind silverlight. It is some great technology. Too bad it's from Microsoft and is closed.
- Joe Beda ()
from iPhone
A world with no Flash and Silverlight. I can't wait.
- Paul Grav
Yeah, it's too bad they didn't open-source it. This stuff with Mono is silly -- if you want to make a real standard you need to make the real implementation be open.
- Paul Buchheit
MS are about 10 years too late with Silverlight. And they'll most likely be dragged kicking and screaming into supporting HTML5.
- Paul Grav
Zio sez (hopefully humorously): "yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it" -- have you ever watched a single YouTube video in your life? Like seventeen gazillion other people across the wired world. yeah, you're right, nobody needs Flash. ha!
- .LAG liked that
Remember Dave Clark in 1992, "We reject kings, presidents and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code."
- Guy Vander Heyden
.LAG: most YouTube videos are playable without Flash now. My iPhone plays most of them and it doesn't have Flash. Certainly by the time the Google OS came out YouTube would be converted completely to non-Flash capability.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: The youtube flash application helps read the flv files on Youtube's servers and provides a UI (decoder too).
- Swaroop
Even Google admits they're not sure I'd bit for bit html5 video is less bandwitj consuming than flash. And flash isn't just media delivery, also interesting games and apps like tonepad, splicemusic.com's online sequencer, etc (I'm musically inclined, so most of my examples will be along that line) and please don't suggest we redo it all in java
- Ed F
from Nambu
Does this mean the next Silverlight release is codename Seppuku?
- Jay Cuthrell
Maybe we'll see commercials encoded in movies if everything is open.
- Rodfather
Flash is too established to kill off right now, so I'd be surprised if Chrome didn't include flash support. It will take many years to get rid of that thing. First they need to fix the standard browser to not be so broken (lack of video, multi-file upload, etc), then they need everyone to switch to the new html5 solutions.
- Paul Buchheit
Scoble ...that may be true, and YouTube plays on my Pre without Flash (yet)...but that doesn't mean that "nobody needs Flash." really? what would replace it?
- .LAG liked that
So Google's NaCl http://code.google.com/p... (now integrated within Chrome/Chromium) was just a temporary workaround, right?
- Jérôme Flipo
Use HTML 5 instead!
- Minh Bui
Is it just me or does Native Client (NaCl) remind you of the Microsoft Active X approach?
- Daniel Chow
But who prevents Google from taking over the net?
- Andreas
youtube videos play on iPhone/iPod Touch as they are higher res mp4 files NOT flv files. It was a big deal when Steve negotiated that deal with youtube.
- vijay
You have Moonlight to run Silverlight applications in Linux. Not perfect, but then an application made on Silverlight is "not perfect" by definition
- Marcos Marado
The point here is that Google has no motivation to include Silverlight on these machines, and installing software likely won't be an option (it's a web appliance), so it will be absent from a lot of netbooks, just as it is absent from iPhones. That cuts into market share, which is a bad thing for a platform that is trying to compete with more universal tech like Flash and HTML....
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- Paul Buchheit
@DanielChow: NaCl has very little overlap with ActiveX, apart from running native code. It runs in a provably safe way, and explicitly does *not* allow it to access arbitrary host APIs. But it can be quite useful when you need to run code that would be too slow in Javascript (even on v8): e.g., heavy encryption/decryption, possibly codecs, definitely game physics, and so forth.
- Joel Webber
There is a time and a place for Flash and Silverlight so I hope it will run it. There are simply some things you can do which aren't possible, or practical in html/css/javascript.
- Steve Temple
Paul: why wouldn't Chrome OS come with Moonlight? And if not, why wouldn't you be able to just install it? And third, why the hell would people want Moonlight for? I never installed it and not even once felt the need to!
- Marcos Marado
from fftogo
because of moonlight http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlig... the potential userbase of silverlight is greatly improved, agree that projects which don't consider compatibility are limiting their potential
- Mike Chelen
@mindboosternoori Ryanair site uses silverlight: http://www.ryanair.com/site... that's the only website I know that uses it - for this you would need moonlight :)
- Ihar Mahaniok
Flash is needed for the google os to be useful in education. Many education based websites are flash based.
- Willowdale
@Paul "Google is probably paying OEMs to ship with this OS, so instead of paying $x/machine to include windows XP, they will get paid $y/machine to include Chrome." - paying present tense, already? Isn't it enough for OEMs not to have to pay hefty licenses to Redmond, etc., while being able to ship with a free, stable OS+browser combo; they need to be paid to do that as well?
- ianf ⌘
I sure hope so. I think the wide array of JavaScript libraries have been killing Flash for years. Silverlight was never really a player. The only think keeping Flash afloat is video
- Scott Radcliff
I don't know what's under the hood of Silverlight (nobody knows), but Flash is basically a sprite engine controlled by Actionscript, which is basically an adapted version of Javascript anyway. It's nicely packaged though, and has an army of developers, so it won't go away that easily, at least not until there are Flash-to-Canvas/ HTML5 porting tools/ translators and the like.
- ianf ⌘
to follow that logic...photoshop is needed as well
- Chris Hofmann
somebody call me when http://playboyarchive.com is working in Chrome OS (it's currently implemented in Silverlight)
- Karim
If it gains any traction at all, MS will just make Silverlight version that will run on Google OS. Sure google could block it, but they haven't done so with the Chrome browser.
- Jeff Weber
Interesting. I doubt the Google OS will get that big anytime soon though.
- Scott Radcliff
from email
Silverlight doesn't have a chance now...I wonder what would Adobe Air do.
- Saad Kamal
not really, if google want to be open then they will need a plugin architecture for it and then MS could just port for it. I really don't see this troubling mainstream users any time soon.
- Darren Stuart
Though I agree with the view that MS monopoly may erode as alternative devices get adoption over PC/Notebook, and these devices will mostly run on open source OS, but it may take years to create a significant change in every day usage of normal users. In the end, OS choice is mostly done by manufacturers, and they would be happy to get paid by open source vendors for putting their OS on...
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- Kaan Bingol
People want media. Hulu, Netflix, Kindle, iTunes, etc. They need to address that or they are DOA.
- Hayes Haugen
Hayes, what makes you think it will lack media support?
- Paul Buchheit
I don't think it will lack licensed media support but what deals they are able to make will be crucial.
- Hayes Haugen
Hayes, i thought you were going to say that Netflix was using Silverlight. ;-)
- Karim
Yes, they are, what is their deal with MSFT? Can they do non Silverlight distribution?
- Hayes Haugen
i believe the Netflix non-Silverlight distribution is a format called "DVD" that works over the "Snail Mail" protocol. ;-) but clearly if Google is paying OEMs to install Chrome OS, they can pay Netflix to go back to Flash which Chrome OS will probably support "by necessity" ;-)
- Karim
How can Google make money from Chrome OS? Or does it want to make money from it except through advertisement? I still can not imagine that all software and service are free and sponsored by advertisements.
- Derek Wei
All Chrome OS questions are answered by today's Fake Steve Jobs ;)
- Hayes Haugen
Is there a need to make money? If more and more people eschew desktop offline applications in favor of online web based apps, it means more pageviews, more eyeballs, more advertising inventory, plus has the side effect of undermining a big competitor's cash cow.
- Ray Cromwell
That's the key, Google wants everything online. They figure the more people online, the stronger they become, and the more money they make. At least that what was said at the Chrome launch.
- Scott Radcliff
from email
I'm amused that the "backwards compatibility" argument against alternative operating systems has slowly turned into "does it support flash", and when you unpack that it really means "does it play YouTube". I suspect Google will make sure ChromeOS cna play YouTube and they don't need Flash to make sure of it.
- Nick Lothian
Is it possible that Microsoft will write Office for the Web using Volta instead of Silverlight? Could be a showcase announcement for their attack on GWT
- Ray Cromwell
I think Microsoft is going to focus less on the front-end of the web and more on the back-end, middle tier and database sides. Azure is a big deal that consumers aren't talking about because it's not flashy but will be pretty important to developers (and especially enterprise-level applications) when it's finally ready because everything becomes an interface to the cloud. Microsoft is...
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- Fa La La La Lindsay
Azure looks really cool. Hint: so did Blackbird.
- Michael R. Bernstein
lol blackbird (scary redmond flashback) - a good example of azure platform utilization can be seen via jon udell's elmcity project - http://blog.jonudell.net/elmcity...
- mike "glemak" dunn
Nosense, I want silverlight, flash, html and any other technology in my desktop & mobile phone. Silverlight? yes, there you can develop under Python, Ruby et al, instead of the outdated javascript.
- Sebastian Wain
It looks like with Native Client, you should be able to write your Chrome OS app in any language you feel like. So far, they have some examples in C/C++, but one of the things they ported is a Lua interpreter. If Adobe isn't going to invest heavily in fixing the show-stopping bugs on non-Windows versions of Flash, it's inevitably going to die, and there's really nothing either Google or Apple can do even if they wanted to support Flash better.
- Victor Ganata
...ActionScript3 is ECMASCript-compliant. I know nothing about standards bodies, and shii like that, but what if Adobe dropped ActionScript and said, "You can now use pure Javascript to build Flash applications..." It wouldn't be a big leap. I'm pretty sure that would shut-up all the Flash haters. And to the folks who say Flash is hanging around just because of video...well, video is...
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- .LAG liked that
Actionscript is just the glue for the more advanced what-iffy graphic functionality of Flash. They can not drop it for Javascript, because it contains additional graphic primitives that JS lacks. But it's not the JS-or-Actionscript that makes it a target for hate, it's other things. Nobody denies that it's pretty capable, but it is also badly written, eats up memory like no other, makes...
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- ianf ⌘
I like this post!
- Mohammad Abdurraafay
from iPhone
I honestly don't know how necessary Flash is. Apple seems to be doing fine without supporting it. But certainly Gnash and Swfdec should be implementable on Chrome OS. The fact is that without Adobe's full support on a given platform, Flash apps will always be second class citizens on alternate platforms, and so far, there's no indication that Adobe is interested in fully supporting any platform other than Windows.
- Victor Ganata
ianf ...you bring up great points about Flash's detriments, as does Victor, but until there's a better way to bring video to the Web, I can't see it disappearing. Adobe seems to keep improving the Flash VM, hopefully they'll address those CPU-hogging issues and make a more efficent runtime. Yeah, I hate hearing the fans kick-in when visiting a Flash-heavy site too. <sigh>
- .LAG liked that
alternative to flash video such as ... html5 :) (requires ff3.5) http://www.dailymotion.com/openvid...
- Mike Chelen
from IM
Ed, only??? thats one of the main reasons cited for the continued requirement of flash on popular sites like youtube
- Mike Chelen
Ed, those other uses can be accomplished through pure Javascript, video was the last remaining stumbling block
- Mike Chelen
Still waiting on non-Flash recreations of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... Well aware of how someone mentioned higher up how you can combine javascript and svg to get nifty flash-like effects. I want apps like that though ^ Only real alternatives I've seen are Java-based ones, and those runs even slower than Flash.
- Ed F
Pardon me, but the OP is a ridiculous conclusion. For that to be the case, Chrome OS would have to kill Windows, OS X, etc altogether. Paul, I understand your viewpoint as being an ex-Google person, but that's just NOT going to happen. Right now the video specification from HTML5 has been dropped because of an impasse, meaning that we may be transitioning from 1 closed-source boss - Flash - to another - H264. Good luck.
- LANjackal
But why do these type of apps have to be written in Flash at all? You can easily do the same thing in C, C++, ObjC, Python, Ruby, etc., with the Native Client API that they're building for Chrome. http://code.google.com/p...
- Victor Ganata
I'm just saying, it's not like Flash is the end-all/be-all. As Apple well demonstrates, some people can live quite well without it.
- Victor Ganata
Victor ...i think the answer to the 'why do these have to be written in Flash at all' question is because Flash is installed on such a significant portion of Web browsers. But I recall that Adobe Flex had a competitor, Laszlo/OpenLaszlo, which compiled apps to SWF or to Javascript. Who's to say that Adobe doesn't have the same capability of making SWF apps into JS ones? On one hand, it...
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- .LAG liked that
Ed, such apps are possible with Javascript and HTML5 multimedia features, the question will be how difficult developers find it, and whether the performance is fast enough
- Mike Chelen
LANjackal, there is a question of degree in that Flash + H264 uses proprietary software and codec, while HTML5 + H264 requires only the codec. while OGV is no longer part of the spec, it can certainly still be used to have completely open video formats, and recent comparisons have shown it performs well http://people.xiph.org/~maikme...
- Mike Chelen
Silverlight's 3 is looking pretty impressive today but tend to agree
- Charlie Anzman
What everybody seems to be missing about Flash is that it works because there is one implementation which is mostly backwards-compatible and the same across platforms. It beat Java because, among other reasons, Java just didn't work the same across JVMs and platforms. The problem with HTML5 is that it will have a different implementation for every browser, and that means your app/game...
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- Gabe
Paul, don't you prefer brutal competition SL vs. Flash vs. standards bring to the table by definition? Or are you more into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - 2020 Google Union - type of ideology?
- Kari Honkanen
Kari, I don't understand your question. Competition is good, but with open-source we get that -- no need for flash or SL.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, no, we don't get the same level of competition with open-source only. As long as there's an opportunity for big gains (like in this case to bridge the gap before html 5 era...to satisfy demand), there will be innovations driven by that. I believe we all benefit from a free market economy that includes commercial, closed source, innovations. I am more scared of the possible future...
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- Kari Honkanen
I wouldn't worry too much amount multimedia. By exposing WebGL, (and hopefully OpenCL), you can offload a lot of compute intensive stuff onto the GPU via GPGPU techniques, and NativeClient is there to take up the rest of the slack, but the for the vast majority of iPhone-like games, I'm willing to bet V8 Javascript on a modern processor is more than enough. That leaves licensing issues...
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- Ray Cromwell
Paul, so are you saying that Google will block both Flash and Silverlight from ChromeOS? That's a new take on 'open.'
- Cliff Gerrish
MSFT next smart move: get Chrome OS (it's BSD licensed), inject IE9 and Silverlight into it and go benchmark against Chrome :)
- Claudio Cicali ♋
MSFT sucks Claudio :)
- Orlando Pozo
Something feels contradictory about a system touted to 'kill' competitors being 'open'. Sounds almost predatory to me.
- Karoli
I'm not opposed to non-open software, but for OS, browser, etc I prefer that it be open. Cliff, Google isn't going to "block" anything, but they can certainly choose what to include, and my guess is that they won't include SL. As Claudio points out, MSFT can make their own version of ChromeOS that includes SL, which is why open source software is nice (it can't be crippled too much or else someone will fork it).
- Paul Buchheit
I have heard somewhere that Fash uses it's own port where Silverlight works over the HTTP port. That's why Netflix works so well. To that, Flash costs more on a sever side because providers can charge more for that port traffic. Could it come down to who is cheaper? (I am fully prepared to be wrong).
- Johnny Worthington
Johnny, they both use HTTP -- there's no difference there.
- Paul Buchheit
Is Chrome OS BSD-licensed? I thought it was using a Linux kernel.
- Victor Ganata
@Paul - well, Flash can do P2P stuff over non-HTTP posts, but that is very new (Flash 10 I think). The cost isn't affected anyway.
- Nick Lothian
My understanding is that netbooks would have to be absurdly popular for Chrome OS to make a dent in the popularity of Flash or SL.
- Gabe
it is possible to have smaller groups for open source software, such as google's own gears api http://code.google.com/apis...
- Mike Chelen
How is HTML 5 going to defeat Flash and SL? I haven't used it, but I don't see anything in the spec that looks like it could compare.
- Gabe
@Gabe - what do you think HTML5 is missing? It does video, drawing, local storage, "threading" via WebWorkers. The biggest hole I'm aware of is the lack of access to webcams & microphones. What have I missed?
- Nick Lothian
Nick: When you say HTML 5 has "drawing", are you refering to the Canvas element? I would not consider an immediate-mode procedural raster drawing library to be much of a competitor to retained-mode declarative vector libraries like SVG or Silverlight. Programming with the Canvas tag is sort of the equivalent of programming in assembly language for bitmaps.
- Gabe
@Gabe: I think you've got it upside-down. A Canvas-style API is the fundamental basis on which you can build a retained mode structure like SVG, et al. If a platform includes a retained-mode library as a convenience, so be it. You can build SVG on Canvas, but not the other way around (hacks like IECanvas notwithstanding -- they have horrible performance characteristics and are a nasty abstraction inversion).
- Joel Webber
So, if Moonlight (Mono) runs on linux -- Will google make sure it doesn't work on Chrome OS?
- Cliff Gerrish
Joel: I don't think you said anything contrary to what I said. I just don't understand why any programmer would want to waste time writing an app using a low-level library when I could use a high-level library that implements everything for me.
- Gabe
@Gabe - I agree, and people are implementing those libraries now. See http://raphaeljs.com/ for example. Also, don't underestimate the convenience factor. I don't own any Flash development tools, but my text editor works pretty well for Canvas+JS based stuff.
- Nick Lothian
Nick: Didn't the author of raphael have some massive rant about how bad the Canvas element is? And I don't have any Flash dev tools either, but I use a text editor for most of my Silverlight development. It is incredibly convenient to be able to type something like <DataGrid ItemsSource="{Binding tabledata}"/> into a text editor and not have to create the data grid myself.
- Gabe
Why is Flash a "necessity" for an OS? I enjoy what flash can do, but it is like putting pimped out leather Oldsmobile seats in a Ferrari. It would definitely be nice, but certainly not a necessity.
- Dan Douglass
Early post goof up. To your original point, I agree. I like how Google is approaching the internet space with web apps that can be run with out a bloated browser.
- Dan Douglass
Dan Douglass: Flash is necessary because so many web sites rely on it. How many people would want to get a netbook that couldn't play FaceBook games or watch YouTube videos? Of course Google is in the unique position of being able to make YouTube work on ChromeOS without Flash, but they probably can't do anything about Hulu, Vimeo, or any of the other video sites out there that require Flash.
- Gabe
Anyone else think Joy is Spam?
- Chris Myles
already reported it yesterday :)
- Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ
from IM
That Twitter is having 503 errors during a non-crucial update from a tech company does not bode well for an actual emergency.
Nicholas James, Mathew A. Koeneker, Ladybug Heather and 38 other people liked this
at least it's my area code
- Brian Hendrickson
i'm hoping one day, we'll all have our own Twitter rather than rely on one company to handle the infrastructure.
- Zee.
...I'm glad that just wasn't me. Reloaded three times, still get 503s
- .LAG liked that
Lol @ Brian...good one ;)
- Dennis Bjørn Petersen
That's what open microblogger should be. Twitter should be an implementation of that, not the other way around. It should be decentralized OR they should get their act together OR they should be purchased by someone who will.
- Louis Gray
love the background Louis...the number of people that must have tried clicking on your dock...(including me). :)
- Zee.
Have you seen the right side, Zee?
- Louis Gray
:-)
- Brian Hendrickson
TweetDeck is still working for me though
- Sarah Perez
503s have been driving me nuts, too. FF seems to have enough of a user base to keep us amused without getting bogged down/timing out/crashing.
- Jolie O'Dell
O hai Sarah! ;)
- Jolie O'Dell
Twitter's never understood how to scale. It's just never been a management priority on their end.
- Seth Blank
Seth, that's ludicrous.
- Jolie O'Dell
people are looting stores around the world in protest
- Allen Stern
I don't know about you guys, but I constantly have the phrase "We're having an earthqu-" typed into my Twitter box so I can be first to post it just by hitting return.
- Louis Gray
lol Louis
- Jolie O'Dell
Dear god, you've bruised Twitter again, back to the API Apps.
- Swaroop
Louis: you're funny!
- Robert Scoble
@Louis no - i can't see anything. It won't scroll to the right any further for me either
- Zee.
Gee, Twitter should give me my money back! Oh wait. nvm
- RAD Moose
I'd pay for it, at this point. I... I need Twitter. I'm pathetic, but it's true.
- Jolie O'Dell
They should give you your time back :)
- Micah Wittman
from iPhone
jolie - we can get you help - i sure hope you really didn't mean that last line!
- Allen Stern
Allen, if needing Twitter is wrong, I don't want to be right.
- Jolie O'Dell
If twitter is right, I do want to be wrong. Twitter bores me.
- Joe
and so do FF feeds full of tweets.
- Joe
jolie - give me your location, i am sending some people to your location for help :)
- Allen Stern
I do admit TweetDeck has worked great during all this event. I just close the Twitter column and all is well. :-)
- Jesse Stay
What platform is Twitter using again :?
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason, Twitter's using the Twitter platform - not sure what you mean
- Jesse Stay
Hilerious Louis.....
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Jesse, I'm trying to pick on the framework underneath. But, I actually don't know if they're still messing with Rails.
- Jason Nunnelley
Twitter's problem is an issue of priority, if you consider their downtime a failure. I don't. I think it's working out just fine for them. The more they go down, the more people realize they're addicted and continue to use the service. They've almost proven downtime doesn't hurt growth.
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason, I think that's a mistake for them to have that attitude. I use Twitter less and less the more they go down, and the more of these shenanigans they keep pulling, both as a developer and user
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, not to be a jerk (and I know I'm a broken record), but I assure you they don't care.
- Jason Nunnelley
Jason, that's okay - I'm a broken record in trying to get them to care. :-) I do know they're listening though (I've been on a panel with Doug Williams and Ryan Sarver, and chat with Alex and others frequently via e-mail), and they'll apply the things that make the most sense to them, or at least that they're allowed to implement by management and their investors.
- Jesse Stay
My hope is my "complaints" are constructive though. I've included a lot of information and suggestions with those complaints, so they can take them as they please - it's not my business in the end, but I'll share the knowledge I have at least.
- Jesse Stay
Maybe I should use the Twitter page less and TweetDeck or Seesmic more...
- Dennis Jernberg
Dennis, it's an API vs. web interface toss up. There's no doubt their biggest problem is with the web interface, but I've had API fail also. So long as you just want to read tweets, the API seems to be the best route, meaning Seesmic/TweetDeck, etc. seem to work best.
- Jason Nunnelley
Gartenberg: 8gb starting point. Camera built into new iPod Nano for video recording. Speaker as well. Watc out flip. #apple - http://twitter.com/Gartenb...
Anand Sharma and Tracy Benham liked this
its almost ugly with a camera at the wrong place
- Swaroop
pictures here http://live.gdgt.com/2009...
- Sherry Reynolds
Is FriendFeed Notifier broken ? I have disabled "Show updates from Home Feed", but still get posts and comments from friends ?
Anthony Citrano and Kol Tregaskes liked this
Are you sure it is disabled ? Using "Save settings" excites a bug that causes all notify settings in the browser to be set to a default setting . You have to reset via the web interface to what you want.
- Brian Sullivan
Thanks for the feedback Swaroop & Brian. We'll look into it shortly.
- Ross Miller
Yes Brian, something like that's surely happening
- Swaroop
still brokkin?
- Anthony Citrano
@Anthony: I don't see this problem now
- Swaroop
i did just a couple hours ago. but when i changed the settings from friendfeed.com it worked properly. but changes made in the notifier do not "stick".
- Anthony Citrano
Quake pushes New Zealand island closer to Australia - http://ibnlive.in.com/news...
Can't believe 10 cms of displacement is making a big news and is on front page on CNN-IBN. Media desperately needs better goals.
- Swaroop
from Bookmarklet
Would You Go?
Ton Zijp, EricaJoy, John (a.k.a. dendroica) and 35 other people liked this
If you were asked to be on the first flight back to the moon... would you do it?
- Johnny Worthington
If it had WiFi, sure!
- Louis Gray
Absolutely
- Mo Kargas
Hell ya
- Rodfather
Ooooh yes!
- Phill Price
from iPhone
yep! I've warned my family that when the first hotel opens on the moon that i'm applying to be the janitor ;)
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
yup. And probably quite a few of the guys in here too --->- http://friendfeed.com/what-if...
- vijay
Absolutely
- Threepwood
Yes...and furthermore I work for a company that's doing everything it can to help us get there.
- Mark Krynsky
Yes.
- Mark H
You bet.
- Kate Foy
If I can fit my guitar in the overhead compartment--why not?
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
Yeah, I'd go to the moon on the 1st flight. Maybe not the 2nd ;)
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
What else you've gotto offer ?
- Swaroop
In a heartbeat, no questions asked.
- mike fabio
Internet connectivity won't be limited to AT&T 3G will it? Then yes :)
- jcunwired
Yes, though, as I get older I'm not sure my stomach could handle the thrill ride of lift-off.
- Bill Rawlinson
Hellya
- Janice
I'd say yes pretty much without thinking.
- Bryan Zirkel
If everyone goes, then I'll stay behind and watch over planet earth :P
- Rene Wirtz
Yes!
- Google Lunar X PRIZE
in a heartbeat
- RAPatton
Absolutely.
- Kevin Pedraja
yup.
- Geoff Schultz
Already have.
- Steven Perez
Part of me wants to scream "Hell yeah!", and the other part of me is thinking "Well, maybe when they release Moon Flight SP1" #toomuchtechinmylife
- Andy Bold
Without hesitation yes but I would prefer to go further to Mars. But if I was asked today to go I would say yes immediately. If you want me to clean the toilets at the launch facility I'll do that too, anything to get us out there!
- Brian Bufalo
Sign me up!!!
- anna sauce
Sure, I'd go again. I haven't done it in this century.
- Nine
yes. i call shotgun
- Morgan Haley
Yes, just to be able to share/tweet something like: "On my way to the Moon. Bbl"
- Jemm
Yes.Only to be able to say 'Beam me up Tweete' . :)
- अभिषेक(Abhishek) Das
from fftogo
as long as I could tweet, send some friendfeed messages, and check in via brightkite :)
- (jeff)isageek
Only if I can come back, and take enough reading material for the entire trip.
- Grant Bierman
Yes! I can't wait until there are colonies on the moon. I'd like to live there for a month or two.
- Garin Kilpatrick
Been there, done that. Mars bitches, let's go!
- Adrian
only if invited, :)
- chaz2b
Yes, no question.
- Aaron Hood
Definitely!And I wouldl tweet from the moon!
- Kenya Airways
Back? Hmpf...not sure they went in the first place (hides)
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
No. I don't even dare to take the plane to the US, so this is probably a little bit more too much.
- Ton Zijp
YOU BET!
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
Sure
- Amit Morson
It'd be cool if FriendFeed could show Twitter conversations if the Twitter account is linked here. It'll be hell of a readable content when the "context" is known/grouped together.
Tyson Key, Kevin Pedraja and Kol Tregaskes liked this
I am ofcourse talking about twitter self replies to conversations/tweets participated in. (Totally kool if it can club twitter conversations between different FriendFeed users) too.
- Swaroop
Am i asking too much ?
- Swaroop
Thanks for the feedback, Swaroop.
- Ross Miller
Please post a line of code from your current project which will probably make absolutely no sense to an outsider.
Barry Mitchelson, Tech Introvert, AJ Batac and 17 other people liked this
class SubscriptionsHandler(SubscriptionsHandler): [EDIT: Casey deleted this section of code with the comment "remove unused and terrifying code" ]
- Gary Burd
<p class="byline-author-<?php the_author(); ?>">Par <?php the_author(); ?></p>
- Luka
fields.extend([("%s%d" % (k,i), None, val) for i,val in enumerate(v)])
- Tudor Bosman
Gary's is my personal favorite.
- Benjamin Golub
ClientsData = sorted(store.find(Client), key=lambda x:x.denomination)
- directeur
(apply self-promote (list-ref sites (brl-random (length sites))))
- Bruce Lewis
i++;
- Paul W. Homer
var i,e={"%7C":'|','%2C':',','%3A':':','%3D':'='}
- Chris Myles
<?php if (is_page('happy-people-heartfelt-recommendations')){
- berchman
var newPay = oldPay/0; alert(newPay);
- Swaroop
Swaroop..if ONLY it was that easy.. nice one!
- Chris Myles
there goes the myth of self documenting code..........
- Roberto Bonini
sqlite3 cookies.db "select * from Cookies where domain_tail = 'app.phone';" | awk -F\| '{print $5}' | sed -e 's/%22//g'
- Jauder Ho
oh yeah.. gotta throw some awk in there.. awk's what got me into software development (sounds strange I know.. but it was 1989).
- Chris Myles
How about a FriendFeed code line? :)
- Diego Barros
Diego: The first comment on this entry is from FriendFeed
- Benjamin Golub
My line of code was also from FriendFeed.
- Tudor Bosman
from email
find . -type f -exec md5sum {} \; > ~/M1.md5sums
- Matt Cutts
drupal_bootstrap(DRUPAL_BOOTSTRAP_FULL);
- Justin Hopkins
from twhirl
if (!preg_match('/FROM\s+\S+\s+AS/si', $query)
- Mark Trapp
Who's an "outsider"? I figured this would be easy, but if I examine the code on a per-line basis, it's obvious what it's doing. It's at one level up, the conceptual statement or function level, where, without the function name, it would make absolutely no sense.
- Andy Bakun
zbd t1,4(a0)
- DGentry
let (|MultipleOf|_|) x input = if input % x = 0 then Some(input / x) else None
- Akiva Moskovitz
partial:XN YN,,,#n
- CdL Creative
I think mine claims the distinction of the least amount of useful work in a single line of code. Assembly language for the (dubious) win!
- DGentry
Not so quick Denton, for my line: i was probably already in the register, thus i++ is a simple register increment. Is that indirection as your second argument? Hmmm....
- Paul W. Homer
Blast! I think Paul is right: his would compile to a simple add immediate, where mine loads a value from memory and also operates on it. Darn it, assembly language failed me. I should learn a new skill, maybe macrame or something.
- DGentry
exec("WorldDomination.now");
- AJ Batac
FriendFeed Plans Features to Stem Conversation Flare-Ups - louisgray.com - http://www.louisgray.com/live...
Alternating Reality Books, MikeDeal / ZoneDancer, Dan Morrill AKA Techwag and 53 other people liked this
"Bret said that new tweaks are going to soon come available on FriendFeed that would enable users to stop comments on particular entries, or on the person's entire feed itself. This means that if Arrington were to re-enable his account, as he said he would do today, he could opt to mute threads that got out of control, or simply post his feed and make it unavailable for interaction. Interestingly, Bret said that the conversations on those accounts that had either a small amount of followers or a large amount were of the lowest quality."
- Kol Tregaskes
from Bookmarklet
Paul and Ana mentioned to me that they were working on someone too last week. Sounds good to me, what do you think?
- Kol Tregaskes
Not sure... it's all in the implimentation. The idea that shutting down a thread would somehow dissolve a true 'mob' is naive at best...
- Johnny Worthington
Also too...the 'mob' that got Arrington wasn't on a thread he owned. It was on Leo's TWiT Conversations. This is a pure exercise in image protection, not mob prevention. It jut stops it looking bad if it's on friendfeed.com/techcrunch
- Johnny Worthington
Agree it's not the complete answer but shutting a thread down could be useful in general, though personally will try not to use it very much. What other ways do you think FF could solve this issue, Johnny? I suggested an abuse button from a dropdown on the comment icon or an abuse email address but not many people liked that: http://ff.im/4Srhl
- Kol Tregaskes
Oh really? Then Mike would not have control anyway.
- Kol Tregaskes
Exactly..
- Johnny Worthington
You don't solve a mob problem by giving the lynchee weapons... A clear distinction must be made between what is a mob and what is a large amount of people disagreeing with you or pointing out you are wrong. Stuff like this will never be solved, it is a public space. It's swings and roundabouts... If you want high exposure, you have to accept the fact there will be blow back occasionally. If you want to control your message 100%, you'll be playing to a very small audience
- Johnny Worthington
Sometimes you just have to ignore the 'mob' and carry on. Don't rise to it.
- Kol Tregaskes
Agree with that, Johnny.
- Kol Tregaskes
I like that feature of stopping a thread as you could use it for a kinda sticky post for groups, etc.
- Kol Tregaskes
There is also a 'danger' of creating tiers of user interaction. What will be the criteria for becoming a 'approved commenter' for certain groups. If someone is simply going to pipe in their feed and not allow interaction, I fear they will be destined to sit with the the Twitter feeds... Hidden
- Johnny Worthington
Just seen your post here: http://ff.im/555rc BTW
- Kol Tregaskes
I was about to post that :D
- Johnny Worthington
;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Will read and comment later, walkies-time now. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
How about people who share an entry that is blocked for interaction. Then the interaction eventually goes on at that new post.
- Daan
This is absolutely excellent. Implementing things like his would at least cut down on the mobbing. There are too many people online that LOVE to argue, fight and troll. True it won't stop it altogether, but if nothing is done at all, the negative people will absolutely ruin FF in time and word will get around to avoid this service. At least having control of your own thread like you can with your own blog in closing comments, this would help tremendously.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Jan: Ditto!
- Myrna
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I could see it being abused easily. I'd like to find out more about it before completely deciding, though.
- ha3rvey (Ho)^3
I'm sure there are actual good uses for such features, but that's not what this stuff is being implemented for. I think Arrington and TC are cowards for wanting a shield between them and people who don't agree with them. I'm also sick and tired of people throwing around the word "mob" because apparently no one has a clue what the definition is.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Arrington, got treated bad because he marginalized people. You insult enough people, people will stand up to you! I stopped following TechCrunch long time ago, because Arrington does not welcome open debate on his blog. <just my opinion> We come to Social Media networks to interact, not to Spam our links! ;-)
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
Like for instance, just the other day, I posted an invitation for people to join a new FF group room I created for Highly Sensitive People. This was an announcement. An Invitation. But then a person commented to argue his point against labeling something (specifically against something called HSP). I had posted the invite and then left for a while, not imagining anyone would even...
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- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Ha3rvey - I'm not sure how it would be abused, but I can definitely see how it would prevent abuse.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
If you are afraid of what people's responses will be, you should not be talking in public forums on the interwebz. That is why many services have private methods of communications.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Rasheen, people have different definitions on words like "mob". I was cruicified over my definition on what a "troll" was.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Okay, I have no idea what this all about, but instead of crying when people disagree with you, why not just use the ALREADY THERE feature of 'Moderate Comments' and delete those icky people who think differently?
- Admiral Anika
Hah, Anika, I have used that one many times!
- Myrna
That's why words have official definitions. Mob has a negative connotation that I don't appreciate being applied to the entire FF community. I also feel it's being used to refer to a large group of people that don't agree with you. I didn't see what your definition of troll was, but I also don't see how the definition of a "troll" is up for discussion as it pertains to public forums on the net.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Jan, I missed the thread you were talking about, but I'll definitely agree that there are people on the net who are spoiling for a fight at any moment. Personally, I block them as fast as I can. I'll drop a block or a hide before they even know what happened. This is not how it should be, but it's definitely how it is.
- ha3rvey (Ho)^3
"icky people who think differently" LOL
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
Right - but I was crucified over even moderating comments!
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Everyone should be able to feel comfortable using the public forums, not just those who have thick skin or those who enjoy heated discussions.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Jan, so feel comfortable. Don't get pulled in :)) "Practice makes perfect."
- Myrna
There is a difference between moderating comments and deleting comments you don't like. Also, it's a public forum. At some point, people say things you don't like. It's the Internet. Either you create a semi-private haven for you and a few friends or you prepare to deal with trolls and people who will argue with you, which are not necessarily the same thing.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Jan, read Ha3rvey for reminders.
- Myrna
Right Myrna :-)
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Myrna, if you're pointing to me as a source of good advice, you're obviously a troll. *BLOCKED* :)
- ha3rvey (Ho)^3
Jan, I think "crucified"may be a bit melodramatic, but I have no idea what you're referring to, so *shrug*. I do think that some people are WATB and get way too easily upset if the comments aren't "ditto". That's not conversation. Calling people who disagree with you a mob is hyperbole that only serves to make that person lose credibility with me. But if you only want people who think like you to respond, then create a private group and only invite those people. Block them, whatever...we have the tools.
- Admiral Anika
Ha3rvey but its true, what you said.
- Myrna
People can split atoms over words like "crucified", "mobbing", "troll", and it doesn't really matter. Some people get offended easily, some people are very sensitive and words stir up different emotions in people.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Jan, if you get offended easily, then that's your work!!
- Myrna
If someone is having that much trouble with alleged trolls and mob behavior, than lock down your account and adjust your subscribers accordingly. If you want a bunch a yes men and yes women, than that is the best way to get it. I am not sure when disagreeing became trollish and mob like, but whatever.
- Michelle Martinez
++++Michelle
- Admiral Anika
No no Myrna, I didn't say I get offended easily, I'm highly sensitive - and that's what I created the SUPPORT group room for.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
If you are overly sensitive to things, let's say pollen or milk, what do you do? You avoid those situations where you might have to deal with those things. You protect yourself. You don't expect the pollen or the milk to start interacting differently with you. You don't expect the world to change to accommodate you....do you?
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Not at all Rahsheen - am I communicating that? I'm confused.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Rasheen :))))))
- Myrna
It depends on how you want to work it. If you're highly sensitive, you can hide and not ever be triggered or you can use the difficult experiences to learn from.
- Myrna
I seem to be misunderstood a lot - this is confusing. I'm evidently not communicating in a way people get what I'm saying.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
Rahsheen, I never said I expected the world to change to accommodate to me, but I protect myself by blocking people and the like. But people get OFFENDED when I do that, but there's nothing I can do to keep everyone from getting offended.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
this is a slippery slope. most-likely adding this feature will _increase_ the likely hood of undesirable threads. it's also inevitable. the slide to entropy continues. bummer.
- MikeAmundsen
My point is, those that seem to have trouble or get easily offended or feel attacked when dealing with public forums should avoid doing so. Modifying the forum itself so that it allows you to just kill the conversation at will defeats the purpose of having a public forum. Of COURSE people get offended when you block them. Just as hanging up in someone's face during a phone conversation is offensive to them. The only way to avoid these types of interactions is to stick to more private methods of discussion.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
All I was saying was that If have an announcement or invitation to a new group room (for instance), it would be nice to just post the invitation and close comments, just like people can do with their own blogs. If someone hates the invitation and wants to argue against it, they can start a separate thread.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
I can't imagine any instance where I would use this (even the political threads that I post where things get hot and heavy, I wouldn't use them), but it's still nice to have the option. As Johnny says, it's all in the implementation.
- Steven Perez
Got it Jan
- Myrna
But Rahaheen, I believe I have a right to be here and my right to engage in public discussions. I agree with Ha3rvey on how he uses blocking and such. Robert Scoble blocks people - should he only have private methods of discussion?
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
I see what you're saying, Jan, but I also see where many people will simply block or avoid people who post items where you can't comment. It's happened before. I guess we'll see how it works out in this instance. You have the right to block and moderate all you want, but you can't expect people not to get upset about it. Like I said, a private forum is the only way to avoid such a backlash.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Right - but I for one would like to be able have some layer of protection so that not every single thing is up for arguing.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
If I post an announcement, I'd like to just post an announcement without worrying about an argument breaking out while I'm gone. That's ALL I was saying.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
+++Mark - You said it best. I don't see any downside either. And nobody is actually prevented from commenting on anything I post, even if I "closed" comments. All someone has to do is RESHARE the content to their own feed or different room and argue and wrangle all day long about much they hate it.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
One of the main distinguishing factors of FriendFeed compared to Twitter is the ability for others to comment on your own content in your feed: with Twitter, that doesn't happen. All commentary happens on other people's feeds. That's all that's being suggested here. There are some people who want to prevent commentary on their own feeds from other people. It doesn't stop you from...
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- Mark Trapp
I don't see the downside or slippery slope either. Personally, I would like to use FriendFeed as a mini-blog where I can moderate comments and even close commenting just like on a regular blog. Then like in a regular blog where commenting was closed, they could go back to their OWN blog and continue the conversation until the cows come home and even link back to the original blog if they wanted to do so.
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
seems fine to give people control over their individual FF items, but I'd be pissed if I posted something on my friendfeed account and someone else was able to mute/delete it. That would feel like censorship to me. I think FF ought to give everyone total control over there feed, but no control over others' feeds.
- Thomas Hawk
Thomas, would you say that once you post a comment on a blog then the author has no right to mod your comment? You're right, it would feel like censorship, but isn't it then up to you to decide whether or not you want to engage with a feed owner that practices that?
- Aviv
I have some doubts on comment and feed moderation (censorship?) in Friendfeed. Stopping a conversation or a comment could make continue it in another thread (or in another social network or in a blog). I'm worried that someone could use not so good these new features, as the guys who play football and take away the ball when fighting ("the thread is mine and I leave here only the...
more...
- Roberto
What I think is even more troubling, and I hope I'm not repeating something that has been said already, is that power users such as Scoble have way too much power on FF due to the way Block is implemented. Since Scoble is such a popular figure around here and lengthy conversations tend to develop around entries that he posts (either thanks to the quality of content or just sheer volume...
more...
- Aviv
Actually because we are a small community of active users, the turn off comments future may start more Flame Wars than it is meant to prevent.If people are having a conversation and a heated debate ensues, it is better to let the emotions be vented out where it has originally started. Can you imagine what would happen if in the middle of a conversation, someone turns off their comments? People would get very pissed, and will bash this user all over the place. I hope FF is not giving in to a few Divas?,
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
If FF does implement the turn comments off feature, it should be designed in such a way to only work if no comments have yet been done by other users, besides the owner of the thread. Do not let the thread owner turn comments off after the conversation has started. BAD IDEA
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
Also see this attempt at getting a discussion going on a looming obstacle in FF's road to mainstream: http://friendfeed.com/aviv...
- Aviv
My favorite part of that whole thing is Bret's comment that there's a type of Bell Curve / sweet spot with regard to the ratio of followers to quality. I have found this as well. But I've been whining for better "FF conversation" for a year now. The feed-owner ought be able to moderate/mute/block/whatever. I'm more eager to see FF add other, more serious online conversation tools (such as threading, tagging, etc. - more forum-esque features), but this is a welcome baby step in the right direction.
- Anthony Citrano
Anthony, does the fact that you Favorited a photo taken by Thomas Hawk on Flickr give you the right to prevent some random guy who may have earned his block for having a NSFW image you didn't like show up in his own feed, whatever the reason is - - from engaging with the community -- and Thomas himself -- just because by way of chance the conversation related to that content, owned and copyrighted by Thomas, of course, kicked off under an item that you didn't even explicitly add to your feed?
- Aviv
@Aviv - as I've long said, I see FriendFeed as a curating tool. My own lil' quasi-public museum. ;) If someone sees something in my feed that they like, and for whatever reason I don't want them commenting therein, there are plenty of other ways they may do so. In your example, the person could continue over to Thomas' feed, or to the flickR page for that photo, or share it in their own...
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- Anthony Citrano
Anthony, but remember that some people use FF to have conversations with their friends. What good is FF to them if their friends' own content and valuable insight becomes invisible to them because someone else decided that the block feature is an efficient way to filter FF and that someone happens to share someone else's content on FF by way of adding a delicious bookmark and for...
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- Aviv
Anthony, your "museum" is your feed. You can set it to private. But when your feed contains conversations involving my friends on content that you don't own (like a link to someone else's blog post) - that piece of art is now on loan to a different museum - the public FF community. And as I've said earlier, in the very least, a blocked user in that case should be given read-only access.
- Aviv
There is a problem. If the owner of a thread removes some of the comments, the rest could be decontextualised and their meaning may change totally. All those who left a comment in a moderated thread at least should be alerted via email that Friendfeed thread was moderated, even if the comment removed was not regarding them. This however is not enough. Imagine that user A leaves a...
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- Roberto
@Aviv - totally disagree with you. I'll use a real-world example. I chaired and helped produce a conference for years. We frequently had to deal with people who felt they were entitled to access the event, despite economic (they didn't want to pay) or social (we didn't want them to come) obstacles, merely because something/someone they were profoundly interested in would be there. To...
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- Anthony Citrano
@Aviv: and no, my feed is not a public community. It is more like having a store in leased mall space. You can walk in anytime you like, and I can kick you out anytime I like.
- Anthony Citrano
Side point. A study I saw at a Stanford conference in 2008 on Amazon reviews found that the MOST active reviewers also tended to be the lowest quality (too much artificial praise of friends, and put-downs of competition). I think the LEAST active reviewers were also low-quality (but don't recall).
- Mitchell Tsai
I definitely don't like the idea of this new feature. I agree with Johnny Worthington, Rahsheen ™ and Roberto (postoditacco). Several months ago, I remeber having a conversation with Robert Scoble about "reciprocating" and how the chance of reciprocating made FF of more value. Can someone remember how Friendfeed used to be when it had no comments at all? It looks very hipocritical to me...
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- Niki Costantini
Niki: what's to stop you from ignoring people who don't want to open up comments on their feed, and following only those who allow commenting? Or resharing a story from a feed that doesn't allow comments to your own feed, where you are free to comment as much as you'd like?
- Mark Trapp
If Scoble or Arrington want to sanitize and refractor their feeds, they should start their own Social Media platform ScobleFeed.com Already half the users are blocking the other half. No wonder FriendFeed just does not grew. If you just agree with everything these Divas are saying, they let you interact with their followers. Life is not about stroking Egos!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
Mark, I am here not for ignoring people but for following them. If I wanted to follow people without having the chance or with a lower possibility of reciprocation I'd follow them on Twitter. Just because a feed can be reshared (are you sure that if comments won't be opened up the reshare feature won't be disabled either?) at the moment it doesn't mean I see it as a good implementation.
- Niki Costantini
Nobody has mentioned that they would disable reshare, so I don't think it's reasonable to infer that it would be. I don't understand. The people who would choose to use the feature to lock comment threads or turn off commenting clearly don't want people commenting on their stuff on their feed: why would you force that on them? It seems like a more reasonable approach would be to simply...
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- Mark Trapp
We are all discussing here about something we don't know anything about yet. We are just speculating. It seems totally reasonable to me that if I choose to turn off comments on my feeds even the reshare feature is disabled. Anyway, this is not my real point. The question is not forcing someone, the point is that if one can get all the good by subscribing on FF (public visibility,...
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- Niki Costantini
great roberto and niki;)
- Patrizia Filippetti
Yay !
- Swaroop
If you publish something to the world, be it in a book, newspaper, magazine or on the internet, it effectively becomes public domain and open to debate and critical analysis. If you don't want that, or can't stand the thought that someone might disagree with you, then don't publish it. This whole debate here is nonsense brought about because someone got pissed off by people disagreeing with his views. Well that's too bad, There ain't nothing new on the internet.
- Gilbert Harding
g
- Kisha, Well Conditioned
from BuddyFeed
Gilbert agree, it's a nice feature is used correctly but to use it to stop people from disagreeing with you it not the correctly way IMHO. But, Jannifer, I agree about it being useful for "announcements". The feature would be useful for this at the least but to combat abusive commentators. I'm not sure. I'd say re-sharing should be kept open so anyone could take the argument elsewhere and away from the abused.
- Kol Tregaskes
Daan, sure on your very early comment, the question is then should re-share be blocked? I'd say no but what are your thoughts?
- Kol Tregaskes
Rah, agree with your early comment, if it's just to protect such users I'm not interested in the feature, everyone has control of their own threads. If you don't like what is being said you already have the option to delete the entry, delete any comment or simply respond with your counter opinion.
- Kol Tregaskes
Perhaps the problem is that such users are not able to express their opinon appropriately without causing abusive reponses. Is this down to FF to police? I'd said we should try to control it as best we can (like I tried to last week) but once it gets out of hand then maybe we need some sort of control. But we do have the block and delete features already and again I think the re-share should be left open to use by anyone on a locked entry.
- Kol Tregaskes
Igor, I like your comment about locking a thread only when the owner is the commentator and once anyone else comments it's no lockable, I noted this here: http://ff.im/555rc - another interesting thread on this subject.
- Kol Tregaskes
How about the option of making individual entries private so only your subscribers can see and interact with it?
- Kol Tregaskes
So it has happened: http://friendfeed.com/bret.... What do you think?
- Kol Tregaskes
I think exactly what I stated above, no more, no less.
- Niki Costantini
Aviv, I'm watching your "thesis" or "pet theory" ... it has all the markings of becoming a "doomsday prediction", or something requiring a tin foil hat :-) Your hypothetical situations are far too detailed, ready for the Alex Jones treatment with terrifying music!
- Richard pancakhaus Walker
Anika OMG girl your are HILARIOUS. But if I see you thinkin different, you're just another "icky" :) BE WARNED lol
- Richard pancakhaus Walker
great
- beroboo
First Google Chrome OS screenshots leaked? - http://www.engadget.com/2009...
Nice.
- Swaroop
from Bookmarklet
Aww, Those are fake - http://chromeosleak.wordpress.com/
- Swaroop
Brad Williamson to Brad's feed, Media News and Analysis, Twitter, building43, Social Media, TheNextWeb Forum, RWW: The Future of Tech
Let's all give our personal perspectives on why Twitter is AWFUL
sera aktüre, Brad Jackson, John and 70 other people liked this
1. It's substanceless. It's impossible to say anything of real value within 140 characters. Why do you think so many people are using it to share links instead of their own personal insight? Because no one can make a substantial point using three word sentences!
- Brad Williamson
2. It's turning into MySpace. Ya know how back in the day so many people wanted to inflate the amount of friends they have so they could be PERCEIVED as being popular? Well that's happening on Twitter right now. Unless you or your entity is a public figure, there's no way all those followers are listening to you. As a regular Twitter user who isn't any type of well-known thought leader,...
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- Brad Williamson
3. Here's how a Twitter conversation unfolds: 1. I write a Tweet (I hate saying that word). 2. Moments later, a person replies to that Tweet as best they can in 140 characters. 3. Because I haven't been on Twitter in a couple hours, I finally see their response and do my best to reply to them in 140 characters. 4. Hours later, my response is seen and replied to. ...This delayed...
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- Brad Williamson
4. All the hype is causing mainstream news organizations to OVERUSE the platform. Valuable on-air time is being used to either see what Twitterers are saying (in 140 characters, NOT MUCH) about an issue, or they're asking us to follow them during time on segments when they're supposed to be reporting news.
- Brad Williamson
5. Public figures are starting to believe that all it takes to be considered someone who is "fan friendly" is to write, or for their assistants to write, quick little tweets. As a fan of certain celebrity Twitterers, I find it to be insulting that they think they can satisfy my hunger to gain deeper insight into their lives with this lazy approach to fan "engagement."
- Brad Williamson
I use twitter primarily to converse on hot trending topics :)
- Swaroop
I'll post more of my beef with with Twitter in a bit. In the meantime, let's hear some well thought out reasons why Twitter is awful so that those who love the platform can feel a frenzy to argue back ;-)
- Brad Williamson
@Swaroop Do you feel like you can express comprehensive thoughts on trending topics within your limited character space?
- Brad Williamson
Twitter is/was/will be a big success owing to fact that people don't have time to blog (I know some ppl still manage to pull this off), but most of them would just like to dump their quick thoughts onto a platform easily reachable.
- Swaroop
@Brad: Agree to the fact that expressing a huge belief couldn't be done in 140 chars, but that's where we have conversations (Reply to a tweet) right ? For scattered conversations - I am still able to successfully stay in loop/touch with the trends & friends
- Swaroop
@Swaroop Why wouldn't you use Facebook, or any other social media platform that allows you to breath a little, to share yourself with friends and family?
- Brad Williamson
It is changing as do all children as they grow up. So far, I still like it. :-)
- Mathew A. Koeneker
I don't feel like I can have a conversation on twitter without threads
- Ryan
@Brad: I'm using Facebook - But it's too personal for scattered thoughts. Sometimes strangers are better judges for random crazy ideas/or when some work related help (some technical prob). Plus I do have the twitter app repeating the tweets back in Facebook for those one or two friends who don't tweet.
- Swaroop
@Brad: Like your image on Blue "ugly" duckling *ahem* bird
- Swaroop
@Matthew Besides the Trending Topics (which has just tuned into a "FOLLOW ME!!" soapbox) and a few other little improvements, I personally don't think it's evolved that much. To me, it's still a constrained conversation prison (I wonder if that made any sense ;-)
- Brad Williamson
@Swaroop HAHA! Yeah, when I saw that pic, I knew it would be perfect for this conversation ;-)
- Brad Williamson
I like it for what it is and if Twitter expands options that will be a good thing. This site 'Friendfeed' offers more options for expression--I like that feature also, even better, I like the cc feature to Twitter. All social sites will eventually, I think, become an octopus like entity with many arms linked to one another in clouds.
- Johnice Reid
Full of 'celebs'
- Kevin J Hatton
@Johnice I think we all can agree that FriendFeed is the king of of the real-time ring.
- Brad Williamson
6. Using Twitter often forces you to have to say out loud the word "Tweet." I swear, if that word is ever included in the dictionary in the coming years, I'm gonna lose all respect for the English language.
- Brad Williamson
7. The suggested users list represents a desperate attempt to encourage people to become engaged in the site. Not only will those suggested users never reply to anything you say to them, but it's likely that you won't be a fan of any of them in the first place.
- Brad Williamson
8. The Trending Topics feature has already become a spam machine. Sure, some people leave relevant comments within these topics, but, for the most part, it's just used as a place to get new people to follow them.
- Brad Williamson
It is Schrodinger's birdy I think of it as a quantum communication. I am speaking to everyone and no one at the same time.
- Robert Higgins
9. It's hogging all the hype that FriendFeed deserves.
- Brad Williamson
@LLL Your experience of FriendFeed would be much more enjoyable if you wouldn't privatize your feed. I'm just sayin' ;-)
- Brad Williamson
10. It's sad how many people say that traditional blogging is dead and Twitter is the future. How can constrained commentary and conversation trump a platform that is limitless in function? With such a philosophy it would seem like our culture is doing everything it can to embrace a dumbed-down appreciation of ideas and information. Twitter's current popularity gives it the influence to...
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- Brad Williamson
Twitter sucks because it won't auto-refresh on the Nokia N800 :) (via http://ff.im/53bCT)
- George Dearing
Twitter is on the bottom of a very large trend, it will be as ubiquitous as email. But yeah Brad they will have to replace wikipedia with twikipedia. Explain the 10th Convention of the Parties on Biodiversity in 140 characters.
- Robert Higgins
Brad -- permit me to voice a contrarian opinion on Twitter. :) I think it is currently the world's premier news distribution system. I used to share your views on Twitter until I realized that tweets can point to documents of any type or size, including long articles, books, dissertations, movies, etc. -- one click and you are on the full document. Now I use Twitter to track the latest news from dozens of high-quality news sources. For discussions, I use Friendfeed mostly.
- Sean McBride
An appalling lack of features and reliability
- LANjackal
Spam.
- Will Higgins™
Good article Brad. I think you make some very good points.
- Kevin J Hatton
The lack of features is really the only thing that bugs me. I can't believe a company with as much venture capital as they have and as huge of a userbase hasn't managed to innovate.... at all. I still use Twitter religiously, as that's where the majority of my friends and connections are, but I really wish they'd fix some things.
- mike fabio
Peoplebrowsr is overflowing with features for managing Twitter.
- Sean McBride
I agree with Sean. I use it to track news from various sources as well as the thoughts of others. I post quick links to things from the web that I want to share, but if I have an opinion to share in the form of a longer-form response to something, I'll blog that, then usually post a link to it on Twitter. I'm new to FriendFeed and still trying to figure out how to fit it into my flow, but i like its ability to do much of what Twitter does without the 140char limit.
- Kevin Arth
It's easier to just crosspost tweets to something with more features like Facebook. That way if someone has a follow up they can put it there instead. Other than that it's mostly a glorified mailing list, though I think Dane Cook proved to us that even that has some use.
- Ben Blackford
Twitter will peak in 2009.
- Patrick Breitenbach
Who wants to read about what strangers are eating for dinner without at least seeing pictures of the food?
- Amy℠
Twitter may be awful but guess what? I tried to get people to come to Friendfeed and they didn't. So it's what we live with.
- Morton Fox
I love twitter because it allows me to use it exactly how I want to. Follow and unfollow and block allow spam to effect me very little. IF you are autofollowing and auto dming then spam will ruin it for you and in fact... you are spam. Its only awful if you let it be awful. it is awful as a ongoing conversation tool, but not what it was built to be I dont think. A baseball bat is a...
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- Cody Heitschmidt
One of the ways in which it is awful is that you cannot have a discussion like this. When public search worked properly you could follow conversations there but that part of the Twitter experience is broken for me and many others; which leads me to a second way it is awful - the apparent unresponsiveness of Twitter in addressing the search problem, but I am going to comment on that in tollie williams' Twitter search question.
- Phil Harrison
What about ways in which it is not crappy. For me It has been an excellent introduction to new people (globally) and mediums (such as friendfeed). I have made new friends and acquaintances that I enjoy communicating with and yes a few of them are famous people who really do try to communicate and they have my admiration for that. Now that I have been introduced to friendfeed, however, Twitters' flaws are more and more apparent.
- Phil Harrison
discussion on Twitter is strongly constricted by the (in)famous 140 char limits. I tends to look with interest to new experiments like Qaiku, where there is a true conversation model, where replies are not conditioned by length...
- Marco Castellani
i like twitter
- Bill Rawlinson
I like Twitter, but the Visigoths have definitely stormed the gates with spam posts, links to their own blogs, zero conversation, and WAY too many hashtags. In short, it isn't Twitter that sucks - it's we users who suck.
- Ciaoenrico
1. Spam followers! 2. updates that are not relevant to me at all.
- Rohit
Twitter sucks but thanks to FriendFeed we can discuss why.
- Sivan Mozes
RT Let's all give our personal perspectives on why Twitter is AWFUL
- elefantastico
When you get dropped off the Twitter search, your Twitter life is effectively over. I have been dropped off the Twitter search since June 10, and I have a broken heart that shall never mend. I loved #Journchat with all my heart. I was never in my entire life as happy as I was in Journchat on Twitter. Now, I will never again be able to participate in Journchat. When you get dropped off...
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- J. D. Ebberly
Great points 1-10 Brad! I would only add that twitter search sux (for more than this dropping issue that JD and LANj are talking about) because it only goes back in time a short period of time. I do find twitter useful but wish everyone was on ff instead... that would be more useful. :-)
- Chris Heath
Twitter is like a food you really don't like, so you just don't eat it. 140 characters limits creativity but if you can't get a point across within those limits your language skills are lacking or you are using the wrong medium to make your point. Plenty of people do get Twitter and use it creatively. If it's not for you, stay away. No-one is insisting you use it.
- Gilbert Harding
I don't really think the spam criticism is fair. If FriendFeed had the same amount of users as Twitter then there would be the same amount of spam. Also, if people are spamming you just unfollow them. The only real problem is the spam in the trending topics. Personally, I love Twitter and FriendFeed. I don't mind using both.
- Shawn Hickman
Why I find Twitter to be valuable (a few feeds I follow): Antiwarcom, alleyinsider, amnesty, atul, bbcpolitics, bbcscitech, BreakingNews, CBSNews, CFR_org, cnnbrk, cqpolitics, dailydish, DavidCornDC, DemocracyNow, dorait, EFF, foxnew_pol, FP_Passport, Gizmodo, glenngreenwald, guardiannews, guardiantech, haaretzonline, harpers, huffingtonpost, HuffPolitics, infowarsstories,...
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- Sean McBride
WOW. Thanks for the list of Twitterers who are worth following. But I gotta strike back with a counter point... Instead of Twitter, why not use an RSS reader to filter through their latest content, where you can read the entire headline as well as the article's by-line?
- Brad Williamson
Brad -- actually, I am experimenting on a regular basis with using Google Reader, Feedly, Friendfeed and Peoplebrowsr as front ends for browsing and managing Twitter feeds. I haven't yet settled on any one interface as the best (my opinion keeps changing from day to day and with experience). Also, I have noticed that as a rule 140 characters provide more than enough space for the artful...
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- Sean McBride
Twitter = Divas, Wanabe Divas, People on Prozak and Spammers! There are a few nice people there, but it is really hard to have a conversation! So unless you have a large following, the best way to use Twitter is to follow the peeps you are interested in, and then go to their blogs, FaceBook, etc, to talk with!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
Twitter = some of the best news sources and minds on the planet. Twitter is only as good as the feeds you choose to follow.
- Sean McBride
You people have an awful lot to say about something you dislike. No one is forcing you to use Twitter. No one will resent you if you leave.
- Tal Shafik
@Sean, so Twitter is for broadcasting, if you have a following. Twitter is not for dialogue!
- Igor The Troll יִצְחָק
Actually it's far more useful to me the more people that are on it. But is least interesting in feeds from self appointed A listers. I avoid those and all is good.
- Cole Jolley
Igor -- yes: Twitter is primarily a *broadcasting* medium, and nearly useless as a discussion medium. Friendfeed is probably the world's premier discussion medium. Friendfeed could easily match Twitter as a broadcasting medium simply by providing the option to hide all comments under a list view interface (with one click to open the discussions).
- Sean McBride
Sivan Mozes hahahah... that is so true. It's like Friendfeed users need to constantly remind and assure themselves they did the right thing leaving Twitter
- Andre P. Siregar
we didn't leave twitter.. twitter left us. - joking aside though i don't think there's many ff users who don't have a twitter account maybe 10%... maybe (if i had to guess)
- Chris Heath
Already said my piece, in long form, here: http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009...
- Uche Ogbuji
Nice article, Uche!
- Brad Williamson
I think the market is big enough for facebook, twitter and friendfeed. Google wave will only strengthen twitter further with its extension Twave. Twitter has all the high profile people in it.. celebs, technologists, u name it.Twitter has its identity as a microblogging social network, Friendfeed has its identity as an aggregator with microbloggin features.Both hav their place. I think most will shift their base to facebook from twitter once facebook unveals the "everyone button"...
- Gtp19
there is not many desktop and phone clients for friendfeed.. any social network is nothing without its users.. i think more the people get to know about and use twitter, there is much of a chance for them to use friendfeed.
- Gtp19
Why is FriendFeed cropping and then zooming in the image? The actual image is as how it looks here http://twitpic.com/9e27i
 |
Love this. Create your own at - http://cyborg.namedecoder.com/webimag.... Change the text after "edox-";
Kol Tregaskes and Demetrios the Traveller liked this
The friendfeed bookmarklet doesn't work on that URL. Can you check ? Its showing me the html code.
- Swaroop
Is there any feedback here? If not, you've posted this to the wrong group.
- Kol Tregaskes
Kol, I think the feedback is in the first comment about the bookmarklet not working on that URL.
- Scott of Two Countries
Right, then the bookmarket will not work on images, you will have to manually share the image on the FF site.
- Kol Tregaskes
oh yeah, totally forgot, where will it inject the code :P. But can't something be done ? Like move the image into a temporary div or a span container or something and then inject in the rest of the HTML ?
- Swaroop
Do you guys know if there is an app much like the Friendfeed Notifier but for Twitter? Where I can control which updates I want it to show?
Brad McCrorey liked this
Twhirl is something that can alert me with the same means. You can configure it per se
- Swaroop
I just checked it out. Thanks, it's exactly what I was looking for.
- Giancarlo Caparo
@Giancarlo Try this app, available for pc, mac and iPhone. For me, n°1 http://tweetdeck.com/beta/
- Roberto
I wonder if Mike Arrington will need to make changes to CrunchPad because of Google's new OS?
Tyson Key, Tudor Bosman, Nir Ben Yona and 43 other people liked this
Would be pretty late in the production cycle for that wouldnt it?
- Geoff Schultz
CrunchPad looks pretty similar to Google's OS, very simple, very web centric. I wonder how Google shipping netbook OS will affect Arrington's plans?
- Robert Scoble
Are there pics of the Google OS?
- Jeremy Franklin
Mike is gonna bring out the first Google OS powered hardware ?
- Swaroop
Geoff: yes, but maybe CrunchPad 2.0 would shift because of it?
- Robert Scoble
I don't think the compelling feature of CrunchPad is its OS - it's the form factor. He won't lose anything by putting it on the CrunchPad as soon as it's released.
- Matt Mastracci
hmm, thought that u have 2 plug into the USB and doesn't have much memory on its own? I may be wrong cuz I didn't get much info.
- polou/indigo_bow
I am looking forward to both launching. CrunchPad has a great form factor as well. We haven't seen anything from Google OS yet.
- Louis Gray
Swaroop: I doubt it, because CrunchPad needs touch features.
- Robert Scoble
well it will be open source, so I wouldn't be surprised if the innovations flow both ways - my understanding of the crunchpad is it is also based on Linux - so you might see features merge between both platforms...
- Shannon Clark
Shannon: yeah, I wonder if the CrunchPad OS could be ported to the Google OS? If so, that could be a big win for Mike.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Browser == Java script == Capture Mouse movements == Integrate with Crunchpad hardware ?
- Swaroop
I bet it could, because CrunchPad OS is built on Linux and I bet it won't take much porting work to move it to Google OS.
- Robert Scoble
@All - May be Crunchpad emulator on Google OS :)
- Swaroop
crunchpad is silly and only gets press because its Mike Arrington's baby.
- Zac Bowling
Robert - my point is that potentially as well Google may be porting features from the Crunchpad - the beauty of OS platforms...
- Shannon Clark
Ah, I do like crunchpad much better perfect 4 my Canadian-ness eyes.
- polou/indigo_bow
Zac: I disagree. I want a CrunchPad. It looks interesting to me as a coffee table computer. A poor man's Microsoft Surface.
- Robert Scoble
In any case, I bet Michael's time spent on Crunchpad just went from 75% to 100%. Or at least it should. Getting caught slacking while an opportunity awaits is no good.
- Sam Dodge
Zak from the photos & features descriptions, I'm pretty darn interested in buying a Crunchpad - seems like a very useful formfactor and device
- Shannon Clark
my initial reaction is: "do we need another OS?" even more to the point, Chrome browser is still quite a ways from done (mostly plugin problems) and i've not seen a lot of progress in this area. my suspicion is that the OS will go the same route. big splash on the easy 80%, but slow going on the remainin (difficult) 20% i remain optimistically skeptical.
- MikeAmundsen
I'm pretty sure I'm going to pick up a freelance gig just to purchase a Crunchpad. If only to support Mike and his team as they take a huge leap from reporting on tech to making tech.
- Sam Dodge
Robert: Curious to what's on the coming monday.
- Swaroop
Swaroop: I can't tell you until Monday.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: *Waiting...*
- Swaroop
OS define by Google isn't really an OS at all its like going 2 7-11. Anybody agree or disagree?
- polou/indigo_bow
Oh, you are a tease Robert! Do tell, we won't pass it on, promise! ;)
- Sandra Large
I think that Google Chrome OS lowers the barrier so that a lot of other companies can deliver their own pads. As such it is not a great news for Mike but it also validates the vision so may be a competitor might be interested in acquiring CrunchPad
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Robert: We won't let Google index what you say. nofollow
- Swaroop
Edwin: will CrunchPad ship with a "Google inside" sticker on it? :-)
- Robert Scoble
Time to market is everything....
- Chris Reichow
Robert would they need a chip maker lol
- polou/indigo_bow
Robert: we had something like CrunchPad inside TI when I worked there a few years ago. not a resistive touchscreen but it was pretty cool. concept device to pitch the OMAP processors to the hardware vendors we designed in house. Nokia bought into it and created the 770, N800, and N810 devices from that tech.
- Zac Bowling
I think I would want the multi-touch capabilities of Win7 on something like a CrunchPad...
- Christopher A Carr
man i hope he uses it on the crunchpad instead!
- sean percival
With that form factor, it needs a wacom tablet and windows 7.
- Rodfather
I think that the bigger opportunity for the crunchpad is to enable other media companies (not Techcrunch) to buy the technology and create their own pads (everyone wants to replicate the Kindle model for their own content). The problem of Google OS is that it slice the Crunchpad in the middle.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Mashable have an article on: will Google kill Windows? http://mashable.com/2009..., seriously, we need more competition not killing them off!!!
- polou/indigo_bow
Rodfather: I disagree. There's a new opportunity to get rid of installable software and go completely with Internet platforms. That's why CrunchPad, Jolicloud, and Google's OS are so interesting.
- Robert Scoble
Google won't kill Microsoft. They don't need to. They need to open up new opportunities.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I am still scared to put personal data out on the cloud. Is it time already ?
- Swaroop
Robert they need to use cloud, therefore still would not solve the problem of storage.
- polou/indigo_bow
I still want the option :) GoogleOS will run on anything. So it'll naturally make it there.
- Rodfather
They do not need to kill Microsoft but they need to change the terrain of the fight from search to productivity apps and OS and they are doing a good job at it.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Edwin, I disagree, what is interesting about the Crunchpad is delivering a form factor that is better for many people than the Kindle (or at least a much better price point) I'm going to get one to use for lots of digital reading. Swaroop - pretty much all of my personal data is already in the cloud - and more secure there than on my computers in an earthquake zone
- Shannon Clark
is there the reason why there r SSL ways 2 purchase or other ways to keep data safe @Swaroop
- polou/indigo_bow
@Shannon. Form factor is cool but that is a pure hardware business, mostly outsourced to asian manufacturers and very thin margin. The software is where the barrier to entry and business models will be.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Shannon: My confidence is shaken when a lot of personal data/docs get exposed due to flaws in software. We just need a "skynet" kind of bot to auto check for vulnerabilities.
- Swaroop
@edwin the software is open source - which means that anyone can use it. the margins, though thin are real if you do hardware right. Sure outsourced, but high design & a competitive price can equal very large sales so small margin still equals decent profits (and sustainable business)
- Shannon Clark
@shannon: so do you mean that Google Chrome OS will not reduce the barrier to entry for companies wanting to create their own XXX pad?
- Edwin Khodabakchian
no I mean the Crunchpad & the GoogleOS are both based on Open Source, so the competitive advantage of the crunchpad is hardware design, not software (as far as I know from what I've read)
- Shannon Clark
polou/indigo_bow: Yes data transfer and storage could be encrypted. We need better identity management too
- Swaroop
yup current identity identification issues r not my favorite, OpenID not all perfect even though I am a big fan of it. Its so hard to work with, grrr @swaroop i could say more but thats all 4 now.
- polou/indigo_bow
unless they have already licensed some of the patents covering the more popular touch idioms using GoogleOS would give them a broad-base multi-touch API to work with that has deeper pockets to fight the patent battles
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
well this may sound strange - but I suspect more than a few patents could (potentially at least - I'm not a lawyer) be invalidated by prior art in the form of movies like Minority Report (and likely other earlier but less popular SF series & movies) which showed multitouch type of interfaces
- Shannon Clark
more copyrights problems cuz of the mighy $$$. that left the big boys again, isn't it?
- polou/indigo_bow
No mention on price...I wonder if google will go for the free + ads model. Imagine ads running on the desktop, along with annon. usage statistics, how much more will google know?
- Thomas Hunsaker
from Android
@thomas why assume they will run ads in/on the OS - I'd guess that like Android they offer it for free (or for a very marginal cost) to OEM's, bundled with a bunch of default links to Google properties (esp Google search as default) and profit from expanding the number of people & devices connected online. Add in revenues from selling cloud based packages such as Google Apps for Domains and they make money w/o ads on the desktop or privacy issues
- Shannon Clark
Thomas: why wouldn't Google Chrome OS be free?
- Robert Scoble
Thomas: You would have it Google Chrome OS Beta under Google Apps. And yes there will be a lite version where you can only run a single process :)
- Swaroop
Great discussion. I think Mike should not adopt Chrome OS for crunchpad to begin with. I don't even think Chrome OS would be polished by the time he plans to launch crunchpad. I think Crunchpad launch could set the bar and direction for what Google Chrome OS should/could be. In terms of usability, we still don't know how Google Chrome OS could play out. I think different initiatives such as Chrome, Crunchpad and Jolicloud will help this ecosystem,.
- Akshay Dodeja
I'll get a CrunchPad only if Chrome OS is in it
- Hendra
CrunchPad and ChromeOS are fundamentally distinct, seeing as they run completely different browsers (Firefox and Chrome, respectively). They will be able to share apps, though, as Google has stated that apps will work in any HTML 5 browser.
- Raphael, Raphael
Vezquex: why is the CrunchPad limited to Firefox? When I saw the CrunchPad I saw nothing that would limit it like that and that dependency, if it exists, is probably easily worked around.
- Robert Scoble
LOL... What a leading observation Scoble. Imagine if the Crunchpad will actually RUN the new Google Chrome OS.
- Greg
Robert - my guess is that as Firefox is one of the only browsers currently available for Linux that is what Vezquex is thinking - however with this announcement I suspect we can guess that Google will be announcing Chrome for Linux rather soon (which likely means for Mac OS as well)
- Shannon Clark
Is there a link to the crunchpad? been busy. Or to the google os (more high end centric than android). Nevermind got it here: http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
- Mark Essel
Is there a spin off company now for the crunchpad?
- Mark Essel
maybe he was in on the big secret and crunchpad is the first device running chrome os?
- Servaas Schrama
Thought I read the crunchpad has a webkit browser ... Not firefox - at least not by default.
- Jonathan Greene
from iPhone
I agree with the browser as the OS but why would I want a pad that I have to lift my knees up to see when I can have a lap top that I can tilt the screen to fit any position I fell like stretching out in? The price point is going to have to be low, low, low for this form factor to take off.
- Stephen Pickering
Scoble, Why you want to discuss this, when we have other worries. Running adobe in chrome, UI etc
- Michael_techie
Hello…? reality check. Is there a CrunchPad on the market? Is there a $249.95 CrunchPad on sale? Quit talking of it as it it were a done deal. It it anything but, and the promiseware may yet end up in TC Deadpool before it has shipped a single unit. Takes a bunch of geeks on FF to discuss implications of porting "CrunchPad OS," hell, emulating it even, on Chrome OS, before either has passed into the domain of the real.
- ianf ⌘
@Shannon Clark [suspects that] "more than a few patents could (potentially at least - I'm not a lawyer) be invalidated by prior art in the form of movies like Minority Report (and likely other earlier but less popular SF series & movies) which showed multitouch type of interfaces." - you are confusing Hollywood with Real Life, which I suggest you get a dose of, the latter.
- ianf ⌘
It's all Linux, and I suspect that crunchpad if it even has an OS uses it too. Swapping out one Linux for another is relatively easy if you've got the source and the hardware information. <3 the Linux Virus, an OS that runs on almost all known hardware, and even as a x86 BIOS for instant ON.
- rob friedman
@dodeja "I think Crunchpad launch could set the bar and direction for what Google Chrome OS should/could be." Puuhlease...get real, what have u been drinking?
- Hendra
I wish Mike luck with the pad but it's just not the right form factor for me, just a little too big from what i can tell. My ultimate would be like a 6" screen. With a device this size you have to decide if you are going to finger or thumb type. Anything in between is going to be awkward.
- Keith Beucler
actually no. If a work of fiction depicts an innovation (especially stuff like UI) that could certainly be prior art. The point of a patent is to be INNOVATION - prior art, even in fiction, is just that - earlier examples of someone else having the same idea. And in the case of Minority Report - a LOT of people contributed to build those interfaces & design ideas - see http://www.lukew.com/ff...
- Shannon Clark
Shannon, you win. Please be sure to report back here (minority- or majoritywise, either will do) on any patent application contesting case, where fantasy GUIs cooked up for film-clarity reasons –it's never an easy thing to show off on a cinema screen– are entered as exhibits of "prior art," therefore either invalidating, or denying a patent. I'll wait by the computer until next Tuesday, do we have a deal?
- ianf ⌘
Nicknames for the Google OS? "Goose"? "Gooz"? "Gos"? "Gosh"? "Gee-OS"?
(jeff)isageek, Mayuresh Walke, Jeff P. Henderson and Louis Gray liked this
Hype OS
- Mo Kargas
I think they are going for Chrome
- Johnny Worthington
Gauze?
- Stephen Mack
Chromos?
- Stephen Mack
Google Chrome for Netbooks 2010, Home Edition Service Pack 1
- Matt Mastracci
COS? (Pronounced either "cuz" or "caus")
- Stephen Mack
Remember GCOS - Honeywell's operating system? (Yes, Honeywell, like the thermostat company). It was nicknamed "God's Chosen Operating System", which is somewhat appropriate for Chrome OS as well.
- Gary Burge
GoogOS
- Marco
+1 Mo
- Marco
I'm thinking "The Goggles" because they MIGHT do nothing...
- The Web's Wendell Wittler
Wendell wins!
- Stephen Mack
It is GeeZ.
- Swaroop
Seems like it will just be called Chrome.
- thinkQuick
Confusing to call both the browser and the OS by the same name, though. "I'm running Chrome." "Which one?"
- Stephen Mack
there's gotto be a "chrome" in there too. Gchroz - spelled as "gross"
- Swaroop
Gozer. Choose and perish.
- Andy Bakun
Grome = Google + Chrome
- Michael_techie
Both Andy's and Michael's submissions are terrific!
- Stephen Mack
Zuul. There is no OS, only Zuul. (just to riff on Andy ;) )
- Neal Krummell
eBuddy Gives Birth To iPhone App (And It Has Push Notification) {heading to the AppStore} - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
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browneyes, Baard @ Pixum, Jay and 2 other people liked this
I tried out push, doesn't seem to keep me online :( Forget pushing messages to me.
- Swaroop
Swaroop - Works for me. Did you change the settings to keep you online for more than 5 minutes after leaving the app (which is the default)?
- Grey Drane
Now I just need to tweak my IM notification settings here. ;)
- Grey Drane
The only reason I'm not going to use it is because the maximum time to stay logged on after quitting the app is 30mins...
- Michel
Spammers Shorten Their URLs - http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...
"MessageLabs, a division of Symantec, said today the presence of shortened URLs in spam had skyrocketed over the last few days and now appears in more than 2 percent of all spam."
- Ionut
from Bookmarklet
Ionut: Thanks to phishing/security alerts in modern browsers. We're still protected when visiting mischievous pages.
- Swaroop
Always advisable to use Anti-Spyware and web security tools along side Antivirus.
- Swaroop
And i think FriendFeed decrypts & expands the actual web URL even if we post a shortened URL.
- Swaroop
Other babby.
Nia, Melissa, Thomas Hawk and 33 other people liked this
Think so! Cute, regardless =)
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
ohhhhh... :-p
- Live4Emma (L4S)
hee.
- edythe
adorable!
- Anna Lynn M.
Your first cousin's children are your first cousin once removed. Your kids and your first cousin's kids would be second cousins. (My first cousin is a genealogist.)
- Trish R
So cute! :-))
- Anna Haro
Stop trying to edge in on the baby craze! :)
- Louis Gray
Louis: Why are baby posts so "discussed" ? Its like moonfruit :(
- Swaroop
cheese...good idea, where'd I put that brie?
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
I wish FriendFeed had better conversations/threading. would have made this discussion more readable & meaningful. http://friendfeed.com/scoblei...
Can some one write a greasemonkey script which can stitch those converations plz :)
- Swaroop
We're certainly open to other ui concepts, but nested threads have a lot of problems too. By the way, please post feedback to friendfeed-feedback, not friendfeed-mentions (I removed your previous posts to friendfeed-mentions).
- Paul Buchheit
Threaded conversations are easy to follow. I'll surely post to the right group.
- Swaroop
I understand on screen size limitations and all, but you guys have done a great job at UI so far. Pretty confident you'll figure this one out too soon :)
- Swaroop
Google announces Chrome OS and takes Gmail out of beta the same day. It's like Christmas in July. :) http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009...
Jonathan Meyer, mjjin, Evan Parker and 8 other people liked this
Robert Scoble is all over this since the announcement at http://friendfeed.com/scoblei...
- Swaroop
Can some one suggest a free IM app on iPhone which supports Push notifications and doesn't ask me to signup for weird ids (like Palringo, Miranda etc). Why can't IM apps directly communicate with parent IM server?
Mohammad Abdurraafay and Greg liked this
Because designing an IM app and running a Push Notification server can be pretty expensive. Apple and AT&T aren't providing the Push service for free, so I would imagine one of the only business model options for makers of free IM clients is to sell anonymous IM stats with free clients.
- David Chartier
from iPhone
@Clark - Free is "FREE" :)
- Swaroop
I am actually looking for IM Message -> Apple's Push Service -> my iPhone.. Does this ever happen ? May be yes if IM Message + App server are both from the same server.
- Swaroop
I think AIM supports push, even for the free version. But there's no multi-protocol apps which support it and are free, for the reasons that David points out.
- Ian Betteridge
I'd be more than happy to have(help) Pidgin ported to the iPhone.
- Swaroop
You wouldn't get push messaging with Pidgin, though. You'd need a server to act as intermediary between the different services and Apple's Push Notification Server - and that would cost money to run. Hence the 30 min restriction on eBuddy (and my guess is that they won't support push forever without at least a paid-for option).
- Ian Betteridge
@Ian - I guess encrypting and pushing messages is okay. Storing password is not :( Some sort of an auth key would be good. @Meebo is something I'll wait for.
- Swaroop
Use eBuddy! It's a first free IM app in App Store with push support. Yahoo Messenger Gonna be arriving soon & Nimbuzz gonna be arriving soon. And these all app gonna be free.
- Mohammad Abdurraafay
from iPhone
@Mohammad - Each one demands create and giveaway my password to store "securely" on their servers.
- Swaroop
eBuddy for iPhone Supports Push Notifications - http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog...
Oh, found it :)
- Swaroop
from Bookmarklet
App Shopper: iTwitter (Social Networking) - http://appshopper.com/social-...
Push notification works between iTwitter users for mentions and DMs!
- Swaroop
from Bookmarklet
Here's how it works: I'm going to donate a bunch of money, but I want random people on the Internet to decide where it goes - http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2009... (edit: please post ideas in http://friendfeed.com/collabo..., not as comments on this entry)
Tanath, Barb Fullen, Daniel Rowley and 73 other people liked this
to me??
- Toby Graham
no.
- Paul Buchheit
Wow, how much money are we talking? And does it have to be a US based charity?
- Zee.
Send it to the people with the power to bring back the Service Icons (or make turning them on an optional setting).
- Matthew DeVries
Zee, it depends, but could be a lot, and yes, it must be recognized by the IRS as a public charity, though that doesn't preclude operating outside the US.
- Paul Buchheit
Actually, Zee's question is pretty important. The amount of money is a big factor in recommending where it goes. The same focused non-profit that could really make use of $20,000 to realize a current initiative would likely be devastated if they received a million dollar grant. They wouldn't know how to use it, would probably grossly over-extend, and then go under in a year or two when their new larger funding needs can't be met. This happens all too often...
- Kevin Fox
That's a fair point Kevin, and it's reasonable to specify how much is needed and on what schedule in the suggestion.
- Paul Buchheit
Here is a fantastic place to start - http://www.facebook.com/inbox...
- Tara Maxwell
Donating to laid off friendfeed users?
- Burcu Dogan
You are a good man!
- Edwin Khodabakchian
I think anything in the Software Freedom Conservancy would qualify, right? For example, Sugar Labs seems like a rather awesome project to donate to. Education focus, reinventing UI, and fully open source. (I think open source can be an awesome thing to spend some money on, because it can touch so many people. Particularly if it's focused on education.)
- Dirkjan Ochtman
Does The Human Fund count?
- Gabe
I don't know anything about charity: water specifically (how well they are run, what their administrative overhead is, etc), but I think that access to clean drinking water is one of the world's greatest problems.
- Tudor Bosman
great idea Paul.
- rob friedman
Very cool Paul... changing lives and making a difference - creatively : )
- Mark Harai
I live in an area where a lot of the "social service" agencies are not doing much at all. these agencies have very large national backing already. I think, if you are going to give some money, give it to some people who are passionate about seeing something get done. That may be people who do not have there 501C3 yet, but the funds that you give could be used to "get them going". That...
more...
- Robert
Paul: what are your goals? The best gifts are when you are passionate about the goal. I love that HP gave millions to Monterey Bay Aquarium because Hewlett's daughter was passionate about that (and remains very engaged to today). Matt Mullenweg helped a school in Vietnam. The Gates got passionate after traveling and seeing just how much of an impact their gift would have. If it were me I would use my money to help get more people on the Internet or help do research on diseases that have affected my friends.
- Robert Scoble
Sound advice Robert. I was just at one of the Gates Foundation's new buildings in South Lake Union for a CCN (communitiesconnect.org) board meeting and the images and stories posted on the walls were quite stunning. The messages that resonated were powerful and moving. Clearly shows the passion of the people involved and of the Foundation overall.
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
Some other things we need to put more resources to? Finding ways of helping with climate change. Red Cross, for instance, will deal with people displaced by floods. Energy research will be very important. Water is another issue more and more of us will need to deal with. But to answer this well I would like to know what you are passionate about and what your goal of spending this money is.
- Robert Scoble
I second Robert's last comment.
- James (!?)
I greatly appreciate that Woz gave our school $40,000 worth of computers. That got my career started and affected more than a few lives.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, it's not just about what I'm "passionate" about, it's about results and outcomes. I could give the money to something that sounds very good to me, but what if it is counter-productive and actually makes things worse? That's why I'm interested in trying to get more brains involved in the process, because then it is possible to leverage more people's knowledge and wisdom. I guess you could also say that I'm passionate about collaborative systems ;)
- Paul Buchheit
BTW, specific gifts (such as $40,000 worth of computers) are somewhat more appealing to me because it's easier for me to understand the impact (vs giving to some mega-charity that does who knows what with it). Even then though, more computers won't necessarily make a school better if they aren't applied correctly (and are probably less important in schools where the kids already have computers).
- Paul Buchheit
Paul: yeah, but you will always have competing uses and the crowd may not pick the most useful places for that money. Me? I am biased toward research and education. Leading and preventing, in other words other people like giving their money to organizations that clean up messes. Orphanages or Red Cross would be examples of those. Other people like to put their money to making people happy. Woz gave millions to the Children's Discovery Museum, for instance. That's why I like a little more direction first.
- Robert Scoble
Paul: crowds aren't that good at figuring out vision. For instance, which is best place to spend $100,000 (you'll get the politically correct and most popular). But they ARE great at helping you find something very specific. For instance, if you said "I want to spend $100,000 on a hospital that helps people with breast cancer, what hospital would use that money to help the most people?" The crowd would be awesome at finding you the best one of those.
- Robert Scoble
Robert's mention of HP support for the Monterey Bay Aquarium is a fond and emotional issue for me. My father has been a docent there since day one (more or less) and a retired school teacher on the Monterey Peninsula. I remember climbing through the place as a boarded up cannery. He uses his teaching expertise to educate and reach visitors in ways that cannot be duplicated in books and...
more...
- Rick Bucich
Rick: it's a very difficult question that Paul asked. Who knew that spending money is so difficult? I like the micro finance approaches too, because their gifts have a multiplier effect. I don't have much money to give to charities, so I look for that multiplier effect and/or I want my own money to put smiles on people's faces. So, museums, hospitals, education, music programs, etc are on my own plan.
- Robert Scoble
Chris: good group doing good work. So, here's a philosophy question: what if $1,000,000 would save 15 lives with that charity, but 100 with another? Which one should Paul choose? And, can we quantify the rewards that way? That's what the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation is trying to quantify.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, agreed which is why I don't have a specific suggestion yet:) I spread my own money relatively freely but broadly and in moderate amounts. This process is rather enlightening actually as a realize that outside my own alma mater I haven't really put my best foot forward to support education in general, especially public school districts where it is really needed.
- Rick Bucich
Looks like Paul just gave us an example of something that he's passionate about: textbooks: http://friendfeed.com/collabo...
- Robert Scoble
Matching gifts is another force multiplier...more thought is needed on the subject.
- Rick Bucich
philanthropy? Oh no not another foundation. What's with all the techies forming foundations and giving away organizations to control to strange/crazy ppl !
- Swaroop
how about this cause .... http://vimeo.com/3920032
- Steven Joseph
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