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"That One"
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“I am really fucking sick and tired of white people telling me not to be offended over the "that one" comment. Classic white privilege. SuperWhitey says "simma dow now." (Not to be confused with my white peeps that don't get how it's offensive. I'll explain it to y'all.)”
Thursday at 8:37 am - Link
Sorry but I don't equate 'that one' with 'you people' or anything like that at all. In fact, we all laughed because I use that phrase constantly with anyone and everyone. Racism is in intent of words, not inherit in the words themselves. Of course, you can read into things whatever you want and some people do it whenever they can to fuel their righteous indignations. - Akiva Moskovitz
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Also, you shouldn't complain about racism or discrimination and then, in the same breath, use a term like 'SuperWhitey' and then condescendingly say that you'll explain it to your white friends who don't get it. - Akiva Moskovitz
Regardless of if it was overtly racist or not, it was definitely disrespectful to Obama. And yeah, I can totally see how people would or could equate "that one" with "you people", but I'm an oversensitive half german white guy. Never again is too soon. - Alex "Chameleon" Scoble
This is the most racist post I have seen on FF -- or am I just overreacting? - Brian Sullivan
+5 Akiva and Alex - Lindsey Smith
Is it too much to ask that people recognize some people are offended by this? Demanding that I shouldn't be offended is pretty damn offensive. You won't succeed in erasing racism by immediately jumping on the feelings of people-of-color and saying "you have no right to feel offended." Understand that it is a legitimate response, even if you don't agree with it. - Victor Ganata
@Akiva Intent is NOT a pre-condition for racism. Racism is about power. Oppression (all the -isms) = prejudice + power. You can do and say racist things without meaning to when you are white, because white people have power in this country. SuperWhitey is a euphemism for white privilege. It's that part of white privilege in which white people are conditioned to not recognize their privilege. - Erica Mauter
Some people have stated to me that they didn't see how it was offensive. I can and have explained to them why I thought it was offensive. Some people have flat out told me that it wasn't offensive, and I disagree, and I am resentful of the notion that a white person can tell me not to be offended (as opposed to not understanding why). - Erica Mauter
@Alex I'm half-German, too. Jury's still out on "oversensitive." ;-) - Erica Mauter
uhhhhhh . . . Being racist isn't exclusive to white people. I think you're proof of that. Racism is not *just* about power but about hate without a valid reason. -- edited to add the word just - Lindsey Smith
@brian: you're overreacting, imho - .LAG
Yeah, some words or symbols have power all by themselves. For instance, imagine what would happen if a Buddhist or Hindu brought a religious statue in to work that had a swastika on it. It's perfectly legitimate for it to be there as it is a symbol of auspiciousness in those cultures, but it would cause holy hell in the work place and HR would have it removed immediately. Regardless of the intent of the person. - Alex "Chameleon" Scoble
I don't think the comment was racist, I think it was demeaning and insulting. It's a generation putdown. My great-grandmother used to do it when she was pissed off at someone and say "I wonder about that one sometimes" and point and them rudely. - Trish R
Woah - words don't have intention. Holy cow - philosophy asplodes. The statement "that one" was, in my opinion made out of fear of a stronger opponent by a weaker one. It was a classic primate fear reaction of two alpha-males thumping chests. One is clearly out of his league and knows it. - Tad - the Meme Maker
@Lindsey "Being racist isn't exclusive to white people." "Racism is not about power but about hate without a valid reason." In this country, where where white people have the power, there can be acts of discimination upon white people or non-white people by non-white people, but it's not racism because non-white people don't have the power. - Erica Mauter
@Lindsey "I think you're proof of that." And how is that? - Erica Mauter
If I went to a black person and said "Yo N**** what's up?" How do you think that person would feel? Regardless of my intent? McCain's intent was simply to point out that Obama voted for a bill that McCain didn't agree with, however, by putting it as he did, I certainly see why people would get offended. It's another gaffe that points out McCain's insensitivity to people of other races/nationalities. Do we really want a president like that? I don't. - Alex "Chameleon" Scoble
Were this message addressed at 'people', rather than 'white people', it would have been worthy of response. Just sayin'. - JodyUnwired
Erica - a BLACK man is about to be elected PRESIDENT - by mostly WHITE FOLKS. WTF? Did you just prove yourself wrong? And, you're totally wrong about racism. I've known plenty of racist black folks in my time. Oh, and "power" is relative. I will be so disappointed if lots of people agree with you. - Tad - the Meme Maker
"That one" is a term I've heard older relatives refer to grandchildren, nieces, nephews, little cousins etc. I found it offensive b/c it was said as if Obama was a child first of all. Secondly, yeah I think it was racist. - Kristasphere
Using "SuperWhitey" as a term is both offensive and racist. Jody also makes the point, why was it addressed to white people? it's ok for other races to tell you not to be offended by it? Personally I don't think McCain intended it as racist or derogatory to black people. What he said was dumb, disrespectful and wrong. I don't like him in the slightest but its a stretch to say it was racist. I'm offended by him saying it, and I'm white. - Lindsey Smith
So, it's okay for black people to use pejorative terms based on skin color because black people don't hold 'the power'? Sorry, I am not buying that at all. That's just an excuse to allow racial prejudice. Does it mean that if black people take 'the power' in America, I can start freely using the n-word? - Akiva Moskovitz
The power dynamic is important, because when there isn't one, then it's just name calling. I can get over name calling and I imagine you can too. But when there is a power dynamic, it becomes a threat. The majority has a distinct power over the minority that is not reciprocal. - Victor Ganata
Agreed Victor, but it doesn't excuse similar behavior on the part of the minority. - Tad - the Meme Maker
"That one" is an old folk insult that is no longer appropriate so we don't see it in these times... I know. I was a Candy Striper at Stanford Hospital surrounded by uppity old rich people from Palo Alto, Menlo Park, and Atherton California. - Mona N.
Racism is treating someone different because of their ethnic make-up. Affirmative-Action is racist; many college entry methods are racist. They are racist because these types of programs place a higher value on persons of ethnic backgrounds that are not Wester-European. Are they "bad?" You can decide that. I think they are necessary. But they are, by definition, racist. - Mark VandenBerg
Oh Mona - you just pegged the hot meter again (and yes, this statement has been sexist, but so true). SORRY - Tad - the Meme Maker
I honestly, just don't care. McCain is a pixelated old relic, in his political death throws. - Not Not Geoff Schultz
Hey everyone. This thread is quickly spinning out of control, but I'd like to direct you guys back to the original statement. If I say that I think something is racist and/or offensive and you don't quite understand why, it is rude and disrespectful for you to try and blatantly tell me I'm wrong for taking it that way. Point blank. You just don't get it. It's fine to not get it, but that doesn't mean it's not offensive to me and you have no right to tell me so. - Rah™
Hoo boy - this conversation is devolving quickly because we all have different definitions of the word "racist." "Racist" and "racism" are both pretty fuzzy words. - Tad - the Meme Maker
As long as people see "race", they'll see actions as racist. "Race" doesn't exist people. It's a manufactured term to classify and segregate humans based on generalities of skin color. Now, am i allowed to dislike you or anyone? Yes. Then why does it matter, unless i'm required by law, to not dislike you for any ignorant reason i choose? McCain may or may not be racist and that comment may or may not actually be racist. He's free to be and you're free not to like him if he is or if he comes across as such. - ·[▪_▪]·
I've had people refer to me as that one and I'm white. I don't really think that he meant anything racist by it. I don't like McCain but in his defense (the only time you will see me do this) "that one" was a stronger way of making his point then "him". - Mathew Ballard
I'm not sure that McC even meant it in a racial manner, but combined with the other things his campaign has been saying, I'm not all that sure about giving him the benefit of the doubt. He should have been more careful with his words. - Rah™
Amen robot! Race is an illusion. - Tad - the Meme Maker
Note: i'm not defending McCain. I thought that comment was derogatory and insulting. Just one more reason i don't like McCain. But i'm just defending his right to be an ass if he chooses. - ·[▪_▪]·
@Akiva "So, it's okay for black people to use pejorative terms based on skin color because black people don't hold 'the power'?" I did not say that it's not pejorative or offensive coming from a non-white person, just that it's not racist. - Erica Mauter
Are you serious, Erica? I am Asian and I strongly disagree. It doesn't matter what race you are. Racism is racism. Period. - Mona N.
My definition of racism (again): OPPRESSION (the -isms) = PREJUDICE + POWER. And then I'll repeat what Victor said: "The power dynamic is important, because when there isn't one, then it's just name calling. I can get over name calling and I imagine you can too. But when there is a power dynamic, it becomes a threat. The majority has a distinct power over the minority that is not reciprocal." - Erica Mauter
As mentioned earlier race as a concept is bogus but it has also been pointed out that in many other discussions here racism is not bogus. We are discussing two things here: McCain's comment which was certainly offensive and probably racist and Erica's post and comment which definitely in my opinion is racist. - Brian Sullivan
Did you miss how three different people stated: " 'That one' is a generation term?" in three different ways? Let's get back to the topic at hand here, and have the race discussion in another thread, please. - Mona N.
+5 Brian - Lindsey Smith
+++++ Lindsey! Racism goes both ways its just that simple. - Brandy Lea Photography
As always, when it come to race: Everyone is in the same room talking, but nobody is hearing the other side. It's freaking amazing. - Rah™
Yeah, Erica, I rarely, ever say this so bluntly but you're flat-out wrong. Any term meant to cast doubt or aspersions based solely on race is racist. Period. It's why you shouldn't use the word 'gyp' or tell someone to stop 'Jewing' something when they're being greedy. It's racist. End of story. - Akiva Moskovitz
So, if McCain was to have called Obama "boy", would that have been considered an actual racist comment? - Rah™
Rahsheen, just because I don't agree with the other side doesn't mean that I don't hear it. And that's my final statement on this issue. Erica's made her point and I've made mine. No reason to continue to needle her about her opinion just because I disagree with it. - Akiva Moskovitz
Erica, you've made me sad. I sincerely hope that not many people agree with your view of racism. - Tad - the Meme Maker
@Rahsheen -- The OP was trying to make a point, but she did it in such a way as to incite disgust and anger. Many of us will refuse to acknowledge her point until she can acknowledge the flaw with her own argument. And even at that, most of us have admitted that McCain was offensive and no one has a right to tell you not to be offended. Just like no on can tell me I can't be offended by her post. She clearly refuses to acknowledge the racism in her own words. - Lindsey Smith
I heard something in college years ago that I still find relevant, and its that people of color wake up every morning in this country knowing that they are different. That they will be seen differently, responded to differently, and treated differently because they are people of color. White people? Not so much. And no matter how tolerant, exposed, or conscious they are, they'll simply never know what its like to have to experience that 'thing' that people of color deal with day in and day out. - Derrick
Derrick +++ - Melissa
I think part of the problem is, its difficult to explain why some thing is offensive. Also; because of the advances made since the Civil Rights movement; the conciseness is that racism has been defeated. So when we point out some thing that on the surface seems benign, it (to a lot of people) is as though we are crying wolf. Lastly, an already uncomfortable subject has become so nuanced that few people are willing to try (or even capable of) having a rational dialogue. That being said, SuperWhitey? - J. Abdul-Qahhar
@Derrick -- We all have our "things" to deal with. Every race or person does, we may not identify with your exact thing but we have our own that you may not be able to identify with. You've also never had to be looked at as a racist just because you are white despite all the good that you are. - Lindsey Smith
+1 Lindsey McCain's usage of "That one" was clearly offensive. I don't think that can be argued. But Erica makes judgments about me because of my skin color, even though she has never met me and does not know me. This offends me. - Mark VandenBerg
Some people here wanna stick with the dictionary definition of racism, which probably means some others of us need to use a different word when talking about the injustices and oppression that occur against black people in this country. The original comment didn't seem "racist" to me, at least not intentionally, but I'm not gonna sit here and say it isn't "racist" just because nobody will admit "that one" could also be considered "racist". - Rah™
@Lindsey Very true. I agree with you on that, but just like I'm not a purse snatcher, drug dealer, deadbeat dad, or lowlife cliched punk ass, I don't let those accusations, stares, random police pull-overs, etc. get under my skin. I know who I am, how I live my life and how I handle my business. If you're not a racist, then you're not a racist. I'm not left-handed so being called a lefty doesn't affect me. - Derrick
@Mark "Erica makes judgments about me because of my skin color, even though she has never met me and does not know me" Really? Cuz I've read this whole thread and I don't see Erica making judgements about anyone, except for the white people who have TOLD her not to be offended about "that one". - Gillian Reynolds
And for anyone in this thread who still thinks what she says should hold any weight. She's actually proud for her behavior: http://friendfeed.com/e/392b80... - Lindsey Smith
@Gillian Did you miss this part: "You can do and say racist things without meaning to when you are white, because white people have power in this country. SuperWhitey is a euphemism for white privilege. It's that part of white privilege in which white people are conditioned to not recognize their privilege" I did not grow-up in this country, my family is not in this country, yet I am branded "SuperWhitey" soley on the color of my skin... - Mark VandenBerg
Akiva, I read your comment an hour ago when I woke up and knew this was going to be a doozie. I thought about taking you down a peg because you always need that, and I was actually considering backing Erica up. Then I realized she was a troll. There sure is a whole lot of overreaction from everyone on Friendfeed today. You've all been baited, SuperTroll style. - Pete Delucchi
+1 Pete - Lindsey Smith
Pete++ :) - Rah™
@Mark Nope I didn't miss it, but I completely fail to see how that is a judgement on you or any other specific person. Sounds to me like a frank discussion of white privilege. If you deny its existence, then as far as I'm concerned, you're proving Erica's point. - Gillian Reynolds
A lot of people of color agree with Erica's definition of racism. Unless you're willing to countenance that it is a valid viewpoint and reach across the chasm, then there's no way we're ever going to get anywhere. You really have to learn to accept that, yes, some people think that way, and no, telling me to stop thinking that way is not going to make the problem go away. - Victor Ganata
And I'm not saying it's right to throw racial epithets at the majority and spew hate. All I'm saying is that it's way easier for someone in the majority to let it slide than it is for someone in the minority. That's all it's really about. - Victor Ganata
If you give people power they will take it. Majorities often don't gain power to be evil, racist oppressors. They have power because others gave or allowed them to win it. To give power to whitey is to claim you're being discriminated against (and you may be). But you can redirect discrimination for your strength like jujitsu. McCain saying "that one" is a sign of his weakness. Oppression is a weakness, not a power/strength. Claiming it is powerful, gives it power. - ·[▪_▪]·
@Mark "I am branded "SuperWhitey" soley on the color of my skin." - In that statement of mine that you quoted, I explained that SuperWhitey is a euphemism for an aspect of the phenomenon of white privilege. It's a concept. And it's being demonstrated to spectacular effect in this thread. - Erica Mauter
Pete, I need to be taken down a peg? Don't confuse an authoritative writing voice with ego. I'm quicker than most people to admit when I'm wrong and I've defended Erica's sentiment about the 'that one' comment elsewhere (and I also don't think she intended to be a troll... at least not in THIS thread). - Akiva Moskovitz
So I've shared my definition of racism and I understand how there's confusion and misunderstanding since I did not (initially) give any context to the term SuperWhitey, which I also have a specific definition for. I don't really see how I'm the troll here, since I expressed a frustration and have since received a whole lot of personal attacks for it. My tweet wasn't an expression of pride, it was me saying that many of your responses are proving my point. - Erica Mauter
Let's put this in further perspective. If that had been the only offensive statement that John McCain had ever said to anyone, I'm sure some people would still be up in arms about it (it's an election after all), but this guy has shown repeated disdain for women and people of different ethnicities throughout his career. If he's not a bigot then he has severely bad judgement on the use of his words. Can you imagine him sitting down across from diplomats from any Asian country after... - Alex "Chameleon" Scoble
what he's called some Vietnamese people, without them thinking he's not trustworthy? - Alex "Chameleon" Scoble
The hypocrisy is strong in this one. - Evan Sims
I think the folks calling out hypocrisy on Erica aren't quite understanding that racism isn't symmetrical. The same actions from different players within the context of a power imbalance inherently means those same actions are *not* the same. Period. And those on the stronger side of the power imbalance demanding that we treat racism equally have *not* taken the time to understand the context. (yeah, too many words and probably not making my point well...) - Tracy Ruggles
Listen, you can rail all you want about the ridiculousness of this definition, but this is pretty much standard thinking among the ivory tower types. This is pretty much canon in post-colonial studies and ethnic studies. So it's not just a one off. There are a good number of people who think this way. It would do well to acknowledge it, and to stop telling me what to think. - Victor Ganata
Wow, what a thread. I feel for you Erica in sharing your definition of racism. This is chiefly why I rarely use the word; it changes the dynamic of the conversation (usually for the worse). As for McCain's "that one" comment, I can honestly say when I heard/watched him say it, an internal "button" went off. It offended me because it's too close to "those people". Your mileage may vary. - jbrotherlove
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