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Tadhg Kelly › Comments
Google Search Gets Personal: Social Search Launches in Google Labs - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Is there some reason why Google can't use Facebook Connect or a similar API to expose a user's facebook profile for searching? It may appear as some form of detente between the two companies but I can't see why they couldn't do it.
- Tadhg Kelly
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Comment on: Google Search Gets Personal: Social Search Launches in Google Labs - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Is there some reason why Google can't use Facebook Connect or a similar API to expose a user's facebook profile for searching? It may appear as some form of detente between the two companies but I can't see why they couldn't do it.
- Tadhg Kelly
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
McDonalds Pt 2 !!! on Twitpic - http://twitpic.com/h5i5a
David Cook, Andrew Trinh, Caroline and 9 other people liked this
Ok, i think i love this chick now. <3 <3 <3 She went balls out.
- DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE
from Bookmarklet
Haha wtf
- Rodfather
I just want to know what McDonalds they went to. And since these pics are at night, but the one at her house is during the day, was she just drunk/high/fucked up and in her panties all day?
- DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE
Oh, and the picture becomes clearer. (Pun not intended)
- Kisha, Well Conditioned
from BuddyFeed
Clearly I've been going to the wrong McDonalds all these years.
- Adrian
I just love these pics.
- DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE
.....wut?
- Tadhg Kelly
Address please... :D
- Adrian
OMG
- fatima
Can a brotha get some fries with that shake?!
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
For real. It looks like if you smacked her on the ass that shit would jiggle for an hour. FUCKING LOVE IT.
- DO ANYBODY NO MONIQUE
Ok, so is it bad that the Rasmus DH and I looked at the other pics?!?!? 0_o
- Bette Cooper
hmmm from experience with similar shapes, I would say more like 47 minutes :-P
- Rasmus Lauridsen
10% have no objection to man boobs and another 10% like their men to smell of beer. They like their men to smell of beer? - http://tadhgkelly.com/post...
I guess that 1% intersection is what we should aim for?
- Brian Sullivan
:)
- Tadhg Kelly
from email
The Pushbutton Web Now in Google Reader - http://smarterware.org/2665...
Had to manually refresh to get this to work though. Hmmm.
- Tadhg Kelly
Fixing Tabs in Firefox: Design Challenge Winners Announced http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Polley's design is easily the best. Cubezilla sounds good in principle but would, I think, actually be kind of annoying in the same way that Mac Spaces are also kind of annoying. That said, I'm not hugely convinced that tabs are a problem that needs solving. I'd be interested to see a prototype of Polley's ideas done as an add-on though.
- Tadhg Kelly
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Comment on: Fixing Tabs in Firefox: Design Challenge Winners Announced - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Polley's design is easily the best. Cubezilla sounds good in principle but would, I think, actually be kind of annoying in the same way that Mac Spaces are also kind of annoying. That said, I'm not hugely convinced that tabs are a problem that needs solving. I'd be interested to see a prototype of Polley's ideas done as an add-on though.
- Tadhg Kelly
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Facebook's New Events Publisher Demonstrates How Wrong the Site's New Privacy Strategy Is http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Jo Booth and Mike Bracco liked this
Storm in a teacup much? I think it's a good idea to be able to add events into the feed. At the moment Events are like a weird side-addition to Facebook in that they effectively act as an independent application. It's just good common sense to streamline all that content into one easily-managed lump. It seems like many sites are trying to find stories to enflame users about Facebook...
more...
- Tadhg Kelly
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Something useful that would be worth drawing their attention to, while we're on the subject, is the poor integration available for Events to external calendars like Google, Exchange or iCal. That's properly annoying and something that should have been fixed a year ago. Currently all there is is manual exporting or a bunch of third party apps that never seem to work well for long.
- Tadhg Kelly
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Comment on: Facebook's New Events Publisher Demonstrates How Wrong the Site's New Privacy Strategy Is - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Something useful that would be worth drawing their attention to, while we're on the subject, is the poor integration available for Events to external calendars like Google, Exchange or iCal. That's properly annoying and something that should have been fixed a year ago. Currently all there is is manual exporting or a bunch of third party apps that never seem to work well for long.
- Tadhg Kelly
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Comment on: Facebook's New Events Publisher Demonstrates How Wrong the Site's New Privacy Strategy Is - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Storm in a teacup much? I think it's a good idea to be able to add events into the feed. At the moment Events are like a weird side-addition to Facebook in that they effectively act as an independent application. It's just good common sense to streamline all that content into one easily-managed lump. It seems like many sites are trying to find stories to enflame users about Facebook these days, like as though there needs to be something to be outraged about. In reality many of the recent changes are not earth shattering. Privacy settings is the latest donkey to beat in the wake of supposed issues with the main page layout changes having amounted to little if anything of significance.
- Tadhg Kelly
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
This is my official Microsoft @ E3 Friendfeed thread. Link: http://www.xbox.com/en-GB... Should be amusing
30 minutes to go
- Tadhg Kelly
Major video feed fail. Finally got in
- Tadhg Kelly
Modern Warfare 2: Ice Climbing Simulator. HEh
- Tadhg Kelly
Final Fantasy 13. All splash and sizzle. Vey nice looking JRPG-ness
- Tadhg Kelly
New Epic game. Didn't catch the name of it due to audio feed fail
- Tadhg Kelly
Hmm. Joyride looks a bit shit going by that video.
- Tadhg Kelly
So basically we're getting a reel of games. Left 4 Dead 2, Splinter Cell 8 etc. Looks a lot like this might be a "just games" conference
- Tadhg Kelly
1080p HD on Xbox. Sky. Some Party thing. All in Autumn.
- Tadhg Kelly
And Facebook integration too
- Tadhg Kelly
And Twitter
- Tadhg Kelly
And a stereo-vision camera. This conference is working out quite well
- Tadhg Kelly
ooh, Molyneux's on
- Tadhg Kelly
Google Wave: Is a growing problem of a communications divide between people who get the new tools and those who don't? Digital Divide 2.0
1. Or call it the Social Divide?
- Tadhg Kelly
2. RSS still not used by the greater bulk of users
- Tadhg Kelly
3. Tools like Friendfeed poorly understood. Many users not getting that feeds are something to be shared, still relying on easy Facebook-esque communication.
- Tadhg Kelly
4. Risk of hyper-communication becoming more vital for certain kinds of jobs but poor education in complex social tools leading to many people left in the dark.
- Tadhg Kelly
5. An opportunity? Social Network Darwinism?
- Tadhg Kelly
I'm just throwing out some ideas here.
- Tadhg Kelly
6. If so, who are these new tools really for?
- Tadhg Kelly
As much as I love Friendfeed, I can't help but feel like it is lacking something...something really big, and something I really need. Let me explain...
Aron Michalski, Kol Tregaskes, Mo Kargas and 2 other people liked this
My first online experience was with AOL dialup, and all that came with it, which included chatrooms. Despite the fact it was real-time communication, it wasn't real. And what I mean by that is that, is that it was all just text on my screen, and nobody I was communicating with mattered one bit. I wouldn't even consider shedding a tear if any of them disappeared forever. While I had an internet connection, _I_ wasn't connected.
- April Russo (app103)
It wasn't until I experienced my first decentralized chatroom that I went through a change and made the connection with other people. Real connection. It was like having an epiphany and nothing has been the same since. Small groups of people in many chatrooms on the same network, in which a single person owned and operated the channel, hosting it on their own home PC with their own...
more...
- April Russo (app103)
So, now I am here, and I have been here for more than 6 months. Yet, I do not feel connected to any of you and I do not care about any of you like I care about those I have met in chatrooms. Why is that? Why do I feel so disconnected again? What is Friendfeed missing that is causing this?
- April Russo (app103)
It's possible, of course, that it's you rather than FriendFeed. You're older, wiser, more cynical, more used to change, and the changes that do occur aren't as Earth-shattering. I see a similar correlation with games and me that you're talking about with FriendFeed and chatting: I would play games on the Spectrum until 5 in the morning. There's nothing that keeps me anywhere near that...
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- Mark H
No, because you can toss me into an irc channel and I won't feel this way and I will actually feel much closer to the people I chat with very quickly. I am a very social person, and have had issues with most social networks because they haven't been social enough. Most of them are so lacking they couldn't hold my interest more than a few days to a few weeks. Friendfeed has been different, but not by that much.
- April Russo (app103)
April. I have the 100% exact opposite experience to you. I feel far more engaged and 'connected' to people here then I ever did on IRC channels. I have been here for 11 months and have meet and become friends with some spectacular people. This is my chat room. It's a #channel on steroids. I can not comment on how you are using FriendFeed, or the people you are subscribed to, but FriendFeed is truly a product of what you make it. What you say FriendFeed is missing, I say you just haven't found yet.
- Johnny Worthington
I agree with you April. I have been using Friendfeed for over a year off and on, and I find that while it is an excellent application in many ways, it has no brought me into better personal contact with anyone really. I think what it is is that FF has two sides. One is a very automated and very noisy system of feeds pulling in content from everywhere, which does feel like a big wall....
more...
- Tadhg Kelly
Well, anyone that is feeling the same as me, I am extending an open invitation to come to my spare chatroom, which usually is pretty quiet. I don't suggest you accept my invitation if you are the type that's easily offended though, as I do have some "looney" friends. But if you want to be social, you are all welcome to come. http://appsapps.info/tsc_cla...
- April Russo (app103)
Oh, and if you need or prefer a real chat client and not the ajax webchat, you can use any irc client or this one: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u... network is irc.rizon.net and channel is #coderzinc
- April Russo (app103)
it's simple April. In chat rooms, it's all about "people" while FF is all about "content". You can, however, simulate the chat room intimacy, playfulness and fun here, through DM threads. That's what I do. My main feed posts are now just 5 or 6 per day, while I easily have daily DM threads going upwards of 200 comments. That's where me and some of my peeps on here let it all hang out : )
- vijay
I am now switching over to make friendfeed my official twitter client.
Thierry R. Andriamirado, Neurario, KyNam Doan and 111 other people liked this
Why?
- Tadhg Kelly
because friendfeed rocks!!! thats why :)
- (jeff)isageek
seriously though...I am using friendfeed more and more and now with saved searches I can create friends lists and pull just their twitter messages and follow them like i would with tweetdeck or whatever. once saved searches go real time that will be awesome!
- (jeff)isageek
plus if someone is not signed up for friendfeed or not streaming their twitter posts...no problem...just create an imaginary friend and there you go!
- (jeff)isageek
I'll join you this week, when I start back Twitter-ing. been on friendfeed only since sat. yes it rocks!
- Wayne Sutton
from BuddyFeed
jeff what about mobile/iphone updates that you want to post on friendfeed then to twitter ? I'm using buddyfeed now and don't think there is a way...
- Wayne Sutton
from BuddyFeed
wayne yeah that would be one mobile limitation of using friendfeed as your twitter client at this time that I can think of. without saying every posted message via friendfeed goes to twitter I dont think that is possible.
- (jeff)isageek
what would be kool is if friendfeed would add like a switch command like say #tw or something that tells the system. ok post this via my mobile to friendfeed but also post it to twitter.
- (jeff)isageek
as a matter of fact i think i will add that to the friendfeed feedback as an option i would like to see
- (jeff)isageek
Yeah, it already is half way there for me as well. I don't have too many imaginary friends though, but I'm with you on this.
- Parth Awasthi
the other issue with twitter messages is obviously to get the @ replies they would have to be one of your friends. so you might have to check twitter.com from time to time to see if someone you are not following @ messaged you. you could grab the rss feed of twitter search but it doesnt show you the name of the person who sent the message in the rss feed.
- (jeff)isageek
Today, I unfollowed anyone on twitter who had an FF account, and subscribed to them here. Down to 100 people. One of them joined FF, but he made a good point when he said FF needed more effort than twitter (initially, at least). People need to setup a personal "system" (lists + filters) before they can reap the advantages FF has over twitter.
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
Ahsan yes...I think people who say friendfeed sucks or dont understand how it can help them have not found the saved searches. those things are really key to getting so much more out of friendfeed then watching your home stream fly by.
- (jeff)isageek
Do you think it would be a good idea for FF to provide a "template" of sort ? I think they provided some default lists in the old site, perhaps they should provide some group subscriptions, some default, common filters ?
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
i think really the main thing is just us the friendfeed junkies blogging and just talking about how awesome the saved searches are and how powerful they can be.
- (jeff)isageek
i think if your average user or even power user who is not familiar with them see's and hears about them in action they will be like wow that is a great feature and a reason to use friendfeed other then to create a stream of all your activities
- (jeff)isageek
Hmm. Is there a useful guide anywhere that explains how to set this up? I'd be interested to try it out but find a lot of how friendfeed works kind of complicated and I don't usually have the time to dig into it.
- Tadhg Kelly
Tadhg if you are looking for info on the saved search stuff i recommend checking out the FF saved searches group http://friendfeed.com/ffss as well as bwana did a great show on the power of them http://sn.im/gdmxs
- (jeff)isageek
In fact, if you think about it FF doesn't have one killer feature as such. Lists, Discussions, Searches, Likes - they're all subtle tools that can be used in diverse ways. I guess we just need to demonstrate them to our friends.
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
I think this whole discussion is a prime example of how much communicating with a large group is so much better on friendfeed then twitter. can you imagine coming in 5 messages ago and getting what has all been said by following @ replies and we could never have the threaded conversation and long responses.
- (jeff)isageek
1up jeff
- BEX
I would be 100% on FriendFeed now if I weren't running a service that had Twitter support. It's a much more cozy environment.
- Jesse Stay
i hear ya jesse I really liked your blog post about using twitter with gmail and started using it. great way to do it...but it all came back to me wanting to get as much as I can into friendfeed and staying at this great place :)
- (jeff)isageek
Next step, turn off Twitter on FriendFeed! Weaning yourself from the tit - er twitter - is painful but strangely satisfying.
- Leo Laporte
Twitter is the worst part of friendfeed! As people have said, it's the little differences that make ff what it is!
- Chris Lloyd
that would be a big step leo. I dont know if i am ready to go that far yet. I still have a lot of friends who use twitter that i want to keep in touch with so for now I will stick around there :) but i am slowly making the move towards what you are saying for sure.
- (jeff)isageek
Jeff, you could post from here, turn off your Twitter stream (since it would be duplicate content anyway), and use TweetBeep to track mentions of your name. No more Twitter. :-)
- Jesse Stay
If you use PeopleBrowsr you don't need to switch. Just open a stack with your friendfeed. You can make combined lists from both twitter and friendfeed in PeopleBrowsr
- Svartling
some good thoughts there jesse!! hmmm
- (jeff)isageek
svartling i have started playing around with PeopleBrowsr a bit. need to check it out some more.
- (jeff)isageek
There are just _too_ many tools now, seesmic, peoplebrowsr, tons of websites that do things atop twitter....
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
And I mean that in a negative sense.
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
Ahsan yeah there are a few tools out there :) plus with different services out there it can make for an interesting plan of attack to keep up with everyone.
- (jeff)isageek
wow this has really turned into a big discussion :)
- (jeff)isageek
I'm with Jeff on this one. And probably the biggest reason is the quality of the content and users on FF. I over followed a ton of people on Twitter, and it's kinda too much work do go in and unfollow a bunch of people. So, I'm finding myself more in FF. And, it's easier to find good users via the comments they leave and the rooms they belong to. (However, I will admit that I could do some of that in Twitter via searches. But I'd still have to do all that unfollowing)
- Bill Bittner
my only thing about peoplebrowsr is I am trying to get away from things like tweetdeck or whatever. and just have friendfeed as my base of social web operations.
- (jeff)isageek
Jesse, can you point TweetBeep directly to FF via the email feed or does it need to verify the address?
- CAJ, somewhere else
jesse back to your thought of killing my twitter stream on friendfeed...I feel like that should be up to people who follow me. if they dont want my twitter posts or want to get rid of the duplication then they can hide those entries. but I feel like I should supply all my streams here and let everyone do with it what they want.
- (jeff)isageek
i think with tweetbeep you can grab an rss feed cant you jesse?
- (jeff)isageek
i grabbed the rss feed from tweetbeep and basically since it just uses twitter search to get its data it never shows who the tweet was from without clicking it. so i couldnt pull that rss feed in here and see oh hey so and so just @ replied me without taking extra steps. now the email funtionality does show you the user you @ replied you.
- (jeff)isageek
interesting idea there about the email feed though alan but yeah i think when i signed up for tweetbeep i had to verify the email address
- (jeff)isageek
Well, the Twitter search rss gives you a direct link to the tweet, which contains the person's nick: http://twitter.com/persons...
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
Jeff, I'm testing it out now. Stand by!
- CAJ, somewhere else
yeah but Ahsan it would be nice to just see it in your friendfeed stream or whatever and just know who it was from rather then having to click away from the service
- (jeff)isageek
Jeff, but if your Twitter stream is exactly the same as your FriendFeed stream is there really reason to keep it?
- Jesse Stay
point taken Jesse
- (jeff)isageek
Alan, you can add the RSS I think - haven't tried. I prefer e-mail because it ensures I don't miss anything.
- Jesse Stay
ah forget it I think I am just gonna move everything back to myspace :)
- (jeff)isageek
jesse and thinking about your idea of just pulling your twitter feed if someone really wanted to have my twitter feed for filtering purposes they could just create and imaginary me and pull the data that way.
- (jeff)isageek
Hmmm, so tweetbeep notification made it into FF okay by changing my email in tweetbeep to iphwin@friendfeed.com (http://friendfeed.com/iphwin...). However, it didn't show any information about who it came from. Well, unless because *I* sent it, it shows from me. lol, that make any sense?
- CAJ, somewhere else
ok i went ahead and pulled my twitter posts from my friendfeed profile.
- (jeff)isageek
PeopleBrowser can be overwhelming in the beginning, but when you get it, you will never use anything else. I'm both a Twitter and FriendFeed freak and this tool is perfect for both. Plus much more. You can even get blogsearch streams and other RSS Feeds in realtime!
- Svartling
Svartling that is pretty kool but I still think going that route means I have to give up time on the actual friendfeed site which is what I am striving to do with the changes I am making and bringing both twitter and friendfeed together the best I can here at FriendFeed.com
- (jeff)isageek
Ok. I understand but you can do that in PeopleBrowsr too ;) But I know what you mean. Good luck.
- Svartling
but I will keep playing around with PeopleBrowsr too though. I might find it to be a better fit after a few days :) I am all about trying new things and new ideas. that is what is great about this whole conversation...bouncing ideas off of each other...talking about our thoughts and ideas on this little subject, ect.
- (jeff)isageek
Yeah that's true. I just want to let you know that PeopleBrowsr exists as an Adobe AIR app too if you prefer that. I prefer the web version.
- Svartling
Jeff just got 4 stars in my book. :-)
- Jesse Stay
from email
haha well good to know Jesse :)
- (jeff)isageek
If it werent for friendfeed, my twitter account would still be rotting away.
- Ron Wening
My experiments with tweetbeep ended in a wash. There didn't seem to be any advantage to using that service (feeding into FF via email) and using a custom RSS feed from Twitter Search. So, I'll keep the RSS feed going to my Twitter Friends group and continue with my regularly scheduled program, already in progess.
- CAJ, somewhere else
just checking out www.flock.com
- Dominik Schneider
with some development and add ons this could be a great alternative to friendfeed (or friendfeed will be integrated into flock)
- Dominik Schneider
FWIW: We are adding additional FriendFeed functionality into PeopleBrowsr this week "Home" feed and "My Discussions" were added last night, and live-testing today. We expect to have even more functionality (Lists and Rooms) coming in the very near future. Please let us know what you think when you try it :-)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
I recently made the switch too
- Johnny
I'm just not sure you can really make FriendFeed into a full featured twitter client. You don't see everything. I even bring in a feed of my @replies from search.twitter, but those are of limited use since I can't actually use them to communicate with people who aren't FriendFeed users. or am I just missing something?
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Good move - congratulations -
- LPH™ and his dog P™
Rob, if you check "Include entry description as a comment" on that custom RSS feed it'll show who it's from. You could then start a new post with a @reply to that person. Very kludgey, eh?
- CAJ, somewhere else
Never got really in love with Twitter, but i grow to like FriendFeed more and more each day.
- Ralph
Alan: yes I could go through a bunch of hoops to do it, just seems too much trouble
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Rob, since we as users can manage a workaround, I'm hoping that the FriendFeed folks could figure something more streamlined and automatic.
- CAJ, somewhere else
While at one point I might have agreed with you Alan, I've since become a heavy believer in the multi-network "social-desktop" client, and prefer all my data to come in through a single window. To effectively FriendFeed requires more screens than I have. I find the FF web site basically insufficient for this reason. With access to my Lists and the Rooms I'm subscribed to, I'll get more...
more...
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
yeah, good call - i switched to only ff awhile ago and ignored twitter but now the two tools are mostly seamless together
- mike "glemak" dunn
i love using friendfeed more, too!
- Egyirba
Nice move!
- Nicholas James
Most of my friends on Twitter are not on FF so I have them as Imaginary Friends. This is OK for reading their tweets. Also it gets round the recent @reply changes by Twitter. I can again see their @replies to other people I don't follow. BUT, I can't have FF conversations involving them because they are not on FF. Also I can't see who my twitter friends replies are directed to and then...
more...
- By_tor
try setting up an rss feed of your @name_twitter
- mike "glemak" dunn
Very interesting discussion over here about making FriendFeed your Twitter client. While I've thought about it in the past, there are some serious drawbacks. I'd much rather be able to import my full "with friends" RSS feed from Twitter and do some serious keyword filtering on it (have played around with using Thunderbird - Mozilla's Email client - for that purpose using the message...
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- Alex Schleber
I've done this for a few months, although sometimes I get sucked into a discussion (sometimes local folks, sometimes a customer, or potenial customer) back on Twitter. (But this starts with Twitter searches aggregated by FriendFeed.) Having a conversation is more important than choice of software, especially when the software costs nothing.
- Wade Dorrell
I started setting up imaginary friends yesterday for folks on Twitter who don't have a FF account. I did about 50 of them yesterday. I must have hit a limit because after a certain point I wasn't allowed to create any new groups. I kept getting an Access Denied page. Anyone know what the daily limit on creating groups is?
- Mark Wilson
The biggest problem with using FF as my Twitter client is not being able to create imaginary friends for folks who have protected Twitter accounts. I have a number of people I follow who have their accounts locked down. This doesn't help me to use FF as a Twitter client.
- Mark Wilson
Mark not sure about the limitations thing. guess i have been lucky and everyone I follow pretty much is setup on friendfeed so i only had to create a handful of imaginary ones.
- (jeff)isageek
yeah protected accounts can cause an issue as well. as you know already :)
- (jeff)isageek
I basically don't have people from FF on Twitter. I figure if you're here, I'll read your tweets here. I can DM you here so I don't add you on Twitter. It made reading my Twitter feed easier but it's a nightmare to create all these imaginary friends. Come on FF, make it easier!
- Mark Wilson
Yes Mark I agree, one thing FF could do to help people migrate from Twitter is a one-step process to turn all your Twitter followers who are not also on FF into Imaginary friends. A solution to the locked twitter accounts would also be useful although I don't have any of them. It also slightly annoys me that when you post on FF the copy sent to twitter has a FF link at the end. Anyway of disabling that?
- By_tor
New Buffy movie coming, without Joss, Xander, Spike, Willow, etc. Feh. (via @Whedonesque) - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr...
Amir, ســیــد دســت خـالـی, Kol Tregaskes and Andy Bold liked this
I have low hopes for this. The idea is like a triple choc muffin. Without the choc chips. Or the chocolate.
- Andy Bold
The idea is actually dumb. Joss is the guy who made it brilliant - and he didn't do that in the movie, which was ho-hum. It didn't really take off until the series.
- Mitch Wagner
A deep and abiding sense of 'Meh'
- Tadhg Kelly
No. I could see if they maybe wanted to take the idea of one slayer in every generation and go with that, thus using the mythology but with new characters, but attempting to do Buffy without Joss is inane. (Although I do have a soft spot for the original movie, however campy it was).
- Lis Miller
Digg This URL Grey: Tea Is the New Coffee - http://www.wired.com/epicent...
Jason, Jamie Ginsberg, Hiro Asari and 5 other people liked this
"The drink of choice for Web 2.0 zillionaires isn’t a quad espresso anymore. It’s a soothingly steeped tea harvested from a shaded mountainside half a world away."
- Zee.
from Bookmarklet
More coffee for me
- Bwana ☠
I have always believed that if someone is hell bent on telling you where their drink came from, they care little for the drink and more about the status that brings...
- Johnny Worthington
+++ Johnny. I brew stuff at home and take it to work. It's just a caffeine delivery system. It's not supposed to be rocket science. :)
- CAJ, somewhere else
Don't get me wrong, if you want that product and you seek it out because of flavor or say supporting sustainable farming practices, more power to you... but no need for a billboard on your cup. :D
- Johnny Worthington
Aye but it's wrong tea. Tea with MILK is the shizz. Builder's tea we call it.
- Tadhg Kelly
Straight Asian tea for me. Strong, with milk.
- Ahsan Ali aka. Slick
"no need for a billboard on your cup" Absolutely! Let Google AdSense for Mugs have that space instead.
- DGentry
Do you feel self conscious when you tweet, ff or status update? I often do. Any thoughts on how to overcome that and write more naturally?
For example: The fear of how you might be seen. A desire to share interesting things motivates posting in the first place, but I think we Irish and British have an in-built awakwardness about how we're perceived ina keeping up with the Jones's way.
- Tadhg Kelly
Digg and Techmeme are Dead. Long live TweetMeme! - http://thenextweb.com/2009...
Louis Gray, Daniel Rowley, Peggy Dolane and 12 other people liked this
So, if Friendfeed is to replace Twitter, or compete with Twitter, it needs to illustrate that it has the power to be a traffic driver, the problem is, with the redesign, they removed the service icons, in effect trapping traffic here rather than pushing traffic to the service that fed it. If that article is in fact a major part of Twitter's success and business model, then Friendfeed has already ceded that front in the competition.
- Matthew DeVries
I don't particularly like Tweetmeme at the moment. The content is very all over the place and seems to contain a lot of links to re-tweeted porn and other spam.
- Tadhg Kelly
Love the fact there is a Digg button at the end of the post and not a Retweet button.
- zeroinfluencer
@Matthew The thing is, to be successful, FriendFeed doesn't need to push traffic to the SERVICE that fed it at all -- it needs to push traffic to the subject links. That is, if the FF item comes from twitter, there's no need to even mention that in order to push the right traffic, you just need to have that tinyurl...
- Joel Bennett
I didn't write this piece btw, and frankly i don't believe that Digg nor Techmeme are dead but what I do agree with is the weight a retweet carries. The major issue is that Tweetmeme is immediately biased to twitter accounts with huge followers which sucks....not that Techmeme and Digg aren't biased in their own ways too
- Zee.
Who said that FF would replace Twitter? Twitter (and all the other services) generate content, FF aggregate it. FriendFeed is here to put some "intelligence" in the content. Which means, thus, that without the "feeding services", FriendFeed is useless. So, "Feeding services" and FriendFeed are, by essence, complementary.
- Zackatoustra
Dumb question : What's the business model chosen/yet to choose by FriendFeed?
- Zackatoustra
Then that Zack, would indicate that service Icons and service sorting would be integral to Friendfeed, but they were both gutted from the redesign. Pretty much blows up your idea of Friendfeed as a simple aggrigator. I'm pretty sure being defined as such irks Kevin and Paul, as they've all but sanitized the term from their lexicon, and dodge it like a politico on Sunday morning "Staying on message".
- Matthew DeVries
@David The retweet button is at the top of the post, the digg button is at the bottom.
- Stuart Dallas
Have Friendfeed removed the ability to see how many friends you have subscribed to you?
It's ok, figured it out. New (ex-beta) interface confusion.
- Tadhg Kelly
Do you still use Twitter?
Jim Connolly, Shey, Jamaican of FF, Spencer and 3 other people liked this
On occasion
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
Is it better to use Twitter a little bit than not at all?
- Rishabh Mishra (p248)
I think so -- it's still useful IMO
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
less but still do...
- Rob Sellen :o)
It's that I have to.
- Ton Zijp
Yes.
- Michelle Martinez
Well, I got to be honest: it's never been my way of contacting people. I kind of followed the stream. I feel more comfortable with FF. But I do understand why other people are preferring Twitter.
- Ton Zijp
Yes.
- Kol Tregaskes
Lots.
- Chris Baskind
Yep
- Tadhg Kelly
I cross-post from identi.ca, and occassionally reply to people addressing me on Twitter, but for me, microblogging is pretty isolating. Not sure why.
- i80and
some, but not as much as I did
- Kim Landwehr
Very little - it's slow, unreliable and full of spam.
- Jim Connolly
yes and I wish more people in this geographic region would.
- Richard A.
Yes, same here, Richard.
- Rishabh Mishra (p248)
New FriendFeed: Simpler, Faster, Better (Maybe Too Fast) - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
Nir Ben Yona, Joe Brinkman, Bill Romanos and 11 other people liked this
"It is live now at http://beta.friendfeed.com Follow me at http://beta.friendfeed.com/scoblei..."
- Robert Scoble
Just clicked pause for a minute but the counter for queued items doesn't show!
- Damian Holmes
Damian, I noticed that too. I wish it would slow how many items are queued.
- Nicholas James
It rather zips along a bit too quikcly doesn't it?
- Tadhg Kelly
Update: Its now displaying the queued items for me. @Tadhg I think you should implement folders ;)
- Nicholas James
It really needs a polling option to set the speed up updates. You can pause the updates, but I didn't see a setting to slow it down.
- Tom Mancino
I like this new FriendFeed "live" concept, but would like to be able to choose a collapsed list view with an activity indicator flashing when updates occur.
- Evan Leeson
Tom you can hover over the feed, it slows it down ;)
- Nicholas James
it's not that fast for me...I don't know why people are complaining about it! :)
- Ahmed
It's ok, I am new and do not know what I am doing yet.. I do not expect to read every post, just like on twitter where I cannot read every tweet..
- David Gross
Jambool Adds In-App Credit Card Payments to SocialGold - http://www.insidefacebook.com/2009...
How do I change all my Facebook friends into fans (on a fan page)? I really need to start over, and there's no easy way to do it.
Create a page and ask them to join? Flippant I know but I reckon that's all you'll get.
- Tadhg Kelly
Friendfeed isn't dead yet. Friendfeed is indexable by Google. Facebook's "public" feed is not yet indexable. They are moving toward a public model, though.
Opensource Obscure, Susan Beebe, Matthias Schwenk and 56 other people liked this
That's a HUGE difference between the two services. What I do here is for everyone and all services to index. Over on Facebook only my friends can interact wholly.
- Robert Scoble
With Twitter growth and now Facebook, an uphill battle awaits Robert
- Mrinal Desai
Twitter, facebook and friendfeed are the 3 things Google has to Gobble up anyhow, at any price. By hook or crook.
- Hardeep Singh Dang
Facebook is still - in large part - a walled garden. That creates advantages and disadvantages for them at this point. What we know (because the essential rules rarely change) is that in the long term walled gardens fall.
- Brian Roy
Are "normal people" on FB yet? lol
- David
open wins
- kosmar
As far as I'm concerned FB is to commercialized and too much like AOL and MySpace. Not interested.
- CW™
but Robert, only my geek friends are on FriendFeed. Everybody else is on Facebook, including my geek friends. Facebook is a far more significant service than FF right now. Point taken about google index though
- David Jacobs
Facebook is Sam's Club (members only, watch and do only what they let you). Friendfeed more like is the public library, wikipedia. or the open web.
- LogEx
As I mentioned on Twitter, Friendfeed is a pretty specific set of functions, where FBook spends too much time trying to be a social media operating system. I think FFeeds focus gives it a huge competitive advantage over Facebook. It is way easier for FriendFeed to be an awesome social feed service, where Facebook also has to be awesome at a whole bunch of other things. Facebook is trying to do too much and I think its going to be a disadvantage for them.
- Ross Rader
No Logical Extremes, MySpace is Sam's Club. Facebook is maybe Target. FriendFeed is some smelly Magic the Gathering card room ;)
- David Jacobs
Should we all take bets on whether Robert will be working for Facebook in the near future?
- Brian Sullivan
Actually, I think Twitter growth helps Friendfeed. People are getting accustomed to following a large number of people they'll never meet. Facebook is the service that I'd worry about. It has to stay closed to be useful to consumers, but needs to open up to be relevant in the marketplace. They're boxed in.
- Dennis Best
Are you suggesting that Friendfeed will be dead Robert? Once Facebook has opened completely?
- Nick O'Neill
David, LOL. But Facebook is definitely not Target because I can walk into a Target without being a member and pay cash, and not have my personally-identifiable behavioral data put into a dossier to be sold later.
- LogEx
I've said it before and I'll say it again. It isn't about one taking from the other... it is about growing the market in total. Combine the # of users of Facebook, Twitter and FF and it is a TINY % of the potential market. Anything that brings users into the market is good for all (right now).
- Brian Roy
Nick: this is a significant challenge to friendfeed. It will be interesting to see how friendfeed differentiates itself.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - I'm of the belief that FriendFeed has a great opportunity to track topics, content from throughout social media. Facebook will be limited to what your friends are up to. FriendFeed will be our curated, uber informaiton management service.
- Hutch Carpenter
As I always say, I wouldn't have found all of you on Facebook. Facebook is about friends, FriendFeed is about community.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
Lindsey/Brian: He's at a Facebook press conference, that's why he's saying a lot about Facebook.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Facebook's news feed doesn't page. That's boring. Once you've seen it, you've seen it.
- Thomas Hawk
@LindseyDragun: i totally agree with you: no offense to FFers, I know or have met some of you in RL, but I'm more interested in the ideas and shares here, and follow hundreds of cool people I'll never meet. But on FB, 100% of the people I've friended I know, through past schools, work, or social settings. These services fill two completely different purposes for me, and I don't really want to mix them together.
- .LAG liked that
Facebook's pushing a lot of interesting buttons but the UI is still a mess!
- Charlie Anzman
what is Facebook for: http://petronillapaperdoll.tumblr.com/post...
- PaperDoll
Facebook really is excited by FriendFeed.
- Hutch Carpenter
++ Hutch!
- Mona Nomura
robert, i think the three - twitter, friendfeed and facebook are three different aspects of a more realtime web. i think the only entity they threaten is google and whether google likes it or not, it needs to compete with them. i think it is not a competiton between one or the other for now. if i was to bet, google would acquire a FF and get their grove on.
- Om Malik
if you google me, the first thing you get is my FF profile ;)
- Roberto Bonini
Of course Facebook is eating Friendfeed's lunch. Commenting and Liking are the two major features that FF does really well. Indexability is a nice addition but it's not THAT valuable in the grand scheme of things (just like searching on Twitter really isn't that much of a killer app as the early crowd are making out). It comes down to relevance of searches. It is rare to search for a specific comment that someone made, but common to search for an article or information.
- Tadhg Kelly
So that means that Friendfeed in reality is essentially Facebook for those that don't want to be on Facebook and deal with all of the rest of the stuff surrounding it. Which, as it turns out, is a smaller number of people than you may like.
- Tadhg Kelly
I dont have a FaceBook account, and i WONT, till they open to google indexing spiders. Internet must be an open place, only in this way knowlege can be spread, like in twitter and FF XD !
- Rocky
"isn't dead yet" implies that it's dying... is it?
- Pavel Senko
FB will always have much more than FF, and FF will always have much less. And thank god. At some point, a Yahoo vs. Google comparison will be in order.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Nice call (Yahoo vs. Goodle) - I can see that.
- James Hull
Hutch has it right in my opinion. FriendFeed is a data management service that transforms data into information. Part of that happens to involve the collection of personal (aka social) data. Facebook does not have this at its core - instead Facebook is firmly rooted in social interaction among defined people.
- AJ Kohn
in France, my friends didn't heard about Friendfeed, they only sware by Facebook ! that's why FF is not dead, and won't be dead ! it will become a new trend in the next months !! or not ?
- Alice Cordonnier
Facebook is the new AOL (in more ways than one).
- April Russo (app103)
But what I dislike that Facebook is lifting the stuff from FF ..and without acknowledging
- Varun Mahajan
Mark Zuckerberg, not exactly one for acknowledging, is he.
- Christopher Galtenberg
Yes, they pointedly mentioned Twitter yesterday, but (to me) pointedly avoided mentioning FF
- Chris Nuttall
From what I've read, Facebook's "Like" feature lacks FOAF functionality. Maybe it's better that their implementation not be associated with FriendFeed's. I imagine their version of "Hide" must be less useful too.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Testing world-wide domination without duplication through ping.fm. Heheh. Just seeing if I have this all setup well.
Kol Tregaskes, Morgan, Bill Sanders and 16 other people liked this
I'm testing my configuration too....where do you set the settings in Ping.fm to work with Twhirl?
- Ian Ceicys
www.hellotxt.com works better.
- Markingegno - Donato
from fftogo
Question: How are you supposed to broadcast to multiple services without pissing off your Friendfeed followers. Won't they see each post multiple times?
- Daniel Miessler
Daniel: not if you are careful. And, anyway, friendfeed hides duplicate links from your view now.
- Robert Scoble
Ian, I don't remember what I did at this point. I will try to figure it all out and do a blog post.
- Robert Scoble
@Ian, you do not. Use the API key from ping.fm (http://ping.fm/key/) and put that into the Twitter settings for twhirl and it will work.
- Jauder Ho
It's getting there! still like to know if there is anyway to filter out ppl's extra feeds like video, digg, stumble etc and just get there FF and Twitter updates
- roger byrne
What makes HelloTxt.com better? Give us some details.
- MarkCarras
So, does this make your brother Alex the "Pinky" in the relationship? Narf...
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Robert: Definitely look forward to your blog post on this. FF will hide only duplicate links not messages.
- Kevin Whalen
from twhirl
All is about balance: do not add platforms you ping with ping.fm on FriendFeed to avoid duplicates. Twhirl should allow to use the custom triggers in the settings. FriendFeed could also take a page from Profilactic which allows to keep a social profile but muting it. Been using ping.fm for a long time, never looked back.
- Paul Papadimitriou
from BuddyFeed
Robert: Please, please, please, just work out a logical publishing flow instead of spamming everybody with Ping.fm. FriendFeed might "hide" duplicate links, but every one of those links is going to generate a different conversation and stream of likes. And if a user tries to "hide" your twitter post, then they'll just have to go hide all the other copies. Figure out where you want to insert your content into the stream...one place... and let it flow downstream. Please, please, please...
- Ken Sheppardson
Using Ping.fm will turn you from being a social connector to the drunk guy at the party who you just can't get away from and just talks too loud.
- Ken Sheppardson
my main concern is about duplicate entries on twitter. e.g. I'm posting from moby a picture uploaded automatically to flickr and tumblr. moby notifies twitter. flickr and tumblr notify ff which will also notify tweeter. 3 notif for the same stuff :( any hint?
- Jean-Charles VERDIE
Writing down a social network workflow is important, in my view. Map it and try it. Being able to share value without overkilling is important to every user here, but elsewhere as well. It means taking some decisions, like not updating certain services, being attentive of cross-posting, separating pro and personal SNS presence maybe.
- Paul Papadimitriou
from BuddyFeed
Jean-Charles, I would not send every Flickr photo to twitter, because general photo-sharing is not the purpose of twitter and your followers don't have the tools to deal with it. Things like mobile photos and brightkite notes are more appropriate because they add metadata to a tweet. Like Paul said, you have to make decisions and not put everything on auto-blast.
- Daniel Sims
I think we got a problem here, which is that services try to integrate together on a unique way, while my need would be, for instance: tumblr notifies ff of a new post but NOT of a new photo upload. The temptation here is to remove notif from _all_ services and only rely on FF. But as you say @papadimitriou, it probably takes drawing it on a paper and see how it goes..
- Jean-Charles VERDIE
mmm. i just opened Facebook on my Nokia e51 phone.. and I have five updates from friends displayed.., Four of them belong to Scoble! do us a favour and at least turn it off in Facebook.
- Jez Arnold
Correct, Daniel. And this is not what I'm willing to do. But it was an unexpected side effect of flickr notif to FF, and FF notif to twitter. Since I deactivated flickr notif from FF, it's now fine (hmm, hope so)
- Jean-Charles VERDIE
"not put everything on auto-blast", these are the best words for all this thread! Great way of putting it!! In the end, think why people follow you. Many come from Twitter to FriendFeed: do you think they want to read about every private status, see every family picture, know of every song you listen on iTunes (wink, wink, last.fm feeders ;-) ?
- Paul Papadimitriou
from BuddyFeed
@Ken Please explain how ping.fm does such a thing.
- Bryan Bartow
from twhirl
I think Ping.fm is great, but I rarely use it for status updates unless I want to 'blast' my followers. Selective use of which services you are going to update is essential. It is not enough that FF can hide duplicate updates; they simply shouldn't be made in the first place. Ping.fm is great when used in combination with Digsby - which allows you to keep track of multiple Twitter, FaceBook, MySpace, Email and IM accounts.
- Chris Loft
So to avoid duplicate FF posts, is the answer to only import 1 of the Ping.fm services into FF (ex. twitter) and not the others (ex. identi.ca/ facebook).
- Kevin Whalen
from twhirl
First Twhirl/Seesmic test videos out http://friendfeed.com/e...
- ewing2001akaNicomedy2010
Again, would be nice if FriendFeef allowed to mute selective own feeds: you could display a identi.ca logo without the feed being shown to avoid duplicates. Profilactic does this.
- Paul Papadimitriou
from BuddyFeed
now I've got my workflow pretty much done, but I need to figure out if I still need ping.fm, which sounds here like a total duplicate of the notification methods I've selected...
- Jean-Charles VERDIE
from twhirl
Paul: They do this with Facebook actually if you have the FF app installed in Facebook.
- Kevin Whalen
from twhirl
Paul: I agree, but FriendFeed first needs to actually remove hidden feeds, and not just hide them on the client side. I have FF set to hide all tweets, and sometimes my entire Home page is blank because all the "hidden" tweets are technically still there.
- Daniel Sims
Well, did the domination work?
- Tadhg Kelly
Agree with @markingegno Hellotxt is way better.
- Josh Lam
@Kevin: never realized that, thank you! Using Facebook for more private stuff, so it's on my personal FriendFeed account ^^
- Paul Papadimitriou
Barack Obama signs order to close Guantánamo Bay detention centre | World news | guardian.co.uk - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world...
Tyson Key, Matt Harwood and Ian May liked this
In my view, whatever anyone has done, one of the conerstones of a civilized society, is surely to give them a fair trial, or we simply stoop to the levels of the barbarians and uncivilized ourselves.
- Ian May
Amen to that.
- Tadhg Kelly
sad news Ricardo Montalbán has passed away today. R.I.P Kahn
Mo Kargas, Will Higgins™, Patricia F. Anderson and 25 other people liked this
Also Mr. Roarke on Fantasy Island.
- Morton Fox
Oh no! That sucks!
- Ciaoenrico
i will always remember him from star trek, fantasy island, and the planet of the apes movies.
- (jeff)isageek
"I've done far worse than kill you, Admiral. I've hurt you. And I wish to go on hurting you. I shall leave you as you left me, as you left her; marooned for all eternity in the center of a dead planet... buried alive! Buried alive...!"
- Carter Rabasa
great line carter
- (jeff)isageek
Kahn was a Star Trek villian if there ever was one.
- Roberto Bonini
that sucks...he was fantastic in Naked Gun....
- Live4Emma (L4S)
:( R.I.P. Señor Senior Sr.
- Cyndy
"In death I stab at thee!"
- Internet's Tad
Tad: he did shakespeare???????
- Roberto Bonini
Not just Shakespeare, Melville too!
- Carter Rabasa
that makes me sad
- RudĩϐЯaЯïan
"Fine Corinthian Leather." Suave. RIP Mr. Roarke!
- Admiral Anika
Bummer.
- tinypants - Hagitha of FF
too bad. he was a classy dude. did a lot for many people.
- Cee Bee
very sad. he was a great guy.
- Jason Shultz
He joins Tatoo back on that Fantasy Island. "Boss, boss, de plane!" "No, my little friend, that is a cigar."
- Josh Haley
Oh snap, how'd I miss this. :(
- Derrick
:(
- sergiooo
RIP, Ricardo. 88, hadn't realized he was that old.
- Stephen Mack
That's really bad news. My heart goes out to his friends and family
- Christian (Simply X)
Wow, Khan and Number 6, both died on the same day. Sad indeed.
- Tadhg Kelly
Why Windows 7 should be a free upgrade - http://www.techradar.com/news...
Debi Jones, "Joey", Nia and 84 other people liked this
It absolutely should be - especially Vista fanboys and social media evangelists like myself :-)
- andy brudtkuhl
Hey Andy, did you get a Beta license for Win7?
- Chris
Do you need a Beta license?
- Mona Nomura
from IM
@Chris - yes I do have a beta license for Win7.. Will be installing it as a virtual machine tonite to play with
- andy brudtkuhl
Windows 7 is a marketing trick. Don't buy it people.
- Rutger Blom
a marketing trick? how do you figure?
- andy brudtkuhl
Is anyone still using Windows? ;)
- Meryn Stol
I am going to go get it now (legally of course) and install it under VMWare. Now you have me curious.
- Chris
Windows? Aren't they those things with glass panes in them? ;)
- Tyson Key
Andy: it brings nothing new to the table. Windows has been the same since Windows 2000. What you're buying is eyecandy.
- Rutger Blom
Rutger, curious. Are you a Windows user? What do you use? XP, Vista?
- Kamath (नमः)
@Rutger - first off I am not buying it (I'm MSDN). Secondly there is no way you can say it's been the same since Win2k.. that's absurd. What about MediaCenter? The thing is an entertainment juggernaut. you sound like a linux fanboy :)
- andy brudtkuhl
Wow, more infantile whining about Vista. And now a petulant little temper tantrum demanding Windows 7 for free? I can almost hear them snorting and stomping their little feet. People, even adults, are still spoiled little brats, aren't they?
- Akiva Moskovitz
Rutger, prove it.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Those that whine the most about Vista and demand free Win7 have probably never even tried or paid for it, anyway...
- Jemm
Uh and inded huh. That's a crazy notion. The reason it's crazy is that if they did do that then they would never be able to charge for subsequent versions of Windows again. So in the long run they'd lose. They should, however, ditch all of this nonsense with various versions and strains of the OS. It just makes a big ol' mess.
- Tadhg Kelly
from twhirl
I can't agree with this. It's a pay product, everyone knows it. Vista is fully functional as well, even if the general impression is bad.
- Eric @ CSTechcast.com
I use vista at work and it is just so poorly built. The 2003 AD tools don't install without having to run a script to finish off the installer, and even then many of them still don't work (DHCP admin for example). The explorer shell is a travesty (I lay a big dose of blame on indexing services), the interface for common things like share and NTFS permissions is a mountain of windows when one should do and the networking performance is piss poor for basic file management!
- alphaxion
don't you understand, everything *must* be free. Business model? <mumble> <mumble> something about advertising <mumble> <mumble> Profit!
- mikepk
win7 is looking like a point release. Should be free to those with the applicable license (where upgrades are free, such as enterprise VLA). However, it should be a massively reduced price for those with a full copy of windows and a legit license.
- alphaxion
hahahah mikepk just leveled up
- Bwana ☠
@milepk taking business lessons from the underpants gnomes again? ;)
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
I upgraded a Vista machine here yesterday. It went without a hitch (took three hours or so). Everything seems to work ok so far. However, I am quite underwhelmed. It seems, perhaps, slightly faster but except for the visual changes to the task bar, I can quite forget I'm using it, instead of Vista.
- Ian May
I'm using XP at work. I've tried Vista and in a corporate network environment it's a disaster. Microsoft more or less admits Vista was a flop and now is in a hurry to hype Windows 7 and make everybody forget about Vista. Windows 7 is at its best what Vista should have been. I think it stinks. By the way, I whine as much as I want to. It's called freedom of speech. Amen.
- Rutger Blom
Rutger, it'd be better if your whining was actually based in facts and logic
- Akiva Moskovitz
+1 DSaad69
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
It is consumer unfriendly. An OS should not take more than an hour to figure out and should not have to be set up or customized.
- Mona Nomura
Akiva, it is in my world. Facts and logic you won't find much of here. Opinions and experience plenty.
- Rutger Blom
oh hell, this conversation again. can't we drop this. nobody is going to change their mind and you can't convince people the error of their ways no matter how hard you try. people can't listen to reason and refuse to believe anything other then what they believe. it's a exercise in futility to keep rehashing this over and over.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
Then why do you keep participating and reading, Jason? You posted a comment earlier. Bizarre. @DSaad - that said, shouldn't Win 7 be free?
- Mona Nomura
@Mona - did i mention i'm a little crazy? :P
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
Hey - aren't we all, Jason? Aren't we all. ;)
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Interesting thread. @Rutger. Do you have any idea of the underlying changes that were made in Vista? It is a vastly superior operating system to previous versions. Unfortunately the UI lets it down. And @Mona, one of my favorite things about a new install of any OS (Mac OS included) is spending time customizing it and installing my favorite apps. Maybe I'm just a geek that way. I'd stop buying/using it if I couldn't endlessly customize it.
- Kenton
I find it interesting that the interface for manipulating the NTFS metadata streams for things like Keywords, Author and Comments that's been in since Windows 2000 or so has actually been removed from Windows Vista. So much for supposedly having "enhanced metadata support".
- Tyson Key
@akiva thing is, rutger is right when he's saying it's a flop in a corporate domain, the fact that their own AD management tools are borked in their latest OS is inexcusable! And as I said, something simple such as changing share and NTFS permissions is an act of annoyance as you have to traverse edit windows instead of being able to modify them from that one window!
- alphaxion
@Mona ++
- Enrique Gutierrez
from twhirl
Aside from the technicalities, like I said above: It is consumer unfriendly. An OS should not take more than an hour to figure out and should not have to be set up or customized. - You (edit | delete). Thus, Windows 7 upgrade should be free.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
I agree with everybody who says Vista wasn't all that it could have been. But it was far from botched. If it was measure from the perspective of getting converts from Mac/Linux, it failed. But it worked well enough for current windows users. An enormous amount of work went into the innards with very little and poorly directed focus on the usability. Win7 goes the other way - usability and performance is a focus. Try Win7, give it a fair chance. It's excellent as an OS.
- Kamath (नमः)
And THAT is why it should be free, Kamath LOL
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Mona, I totally agree. Wasn't arguing about that part :). It is to Windows Vista what Snow Leopard is to Leopard - though the degree is different.
- Kamath (नमः)
But in the process of re-engineering the NT kernal for things such as network presentation etc they buggered up the network stack. Set off a file transfer from one machine to another across a network comprising of 2000 small files and I'll bet you that the XP one will complete it quicker than vista. They screwed up the explorer shell, why does it take a minute to contemplate displaying its contents? Basic requirements that are borked.
- alphaxion
I'm all for it being free to current Vista users. It would be a good reward for Beta testing. However I also think OS X updates should be free until 11 comes out.
- Kenton
alphaxion, that bugs me too especially over wifi connections. If I remember correctly, I believe Microsoft's explanation was that it increases the fail-safety of network transfers if there were network failures during the transfers. It would still fail (time out) during longer network failures but large transfers would not be aborted due to momentary network failures.
- Kamath (नमः)
it's also partly because of the packet size since it was incorrectly determining jumbo settings and a little bit of the peering protocol (network discovery, attempt at replacing WINS for CIFS, tho they still had to copp out by altering DNS for wins-like static entries and of course they still haven't fixed the issue of needing WINS for trust relationships in 2008 *rolls eyes*)
- alphaxion
alphaxion, I believe they did work on network transfer performance in Windows 7. I don't know if anybody has done any benchmarks with real numbers. An unscientific benchmark was done by zdnet which seems to show dramatic improvements in performance. http://is.gd/eqTP. There are issues with other OSes too. I understand this bothers you as it does me but there are so many other usability+perf improvements that i don't let this bother me too much.
- Kamath (नमः)
I've said it before, they should price it like Apple does Mac OS X upgrades. Full retail version of Windows 7 Ultimate should be no more than $120.
- Bwana ☠
Won't be a problem. I'll just order a ticket to the launch event, as usual :)
- Mirco
I don´t know about "free", but I must agree a bit with some of you in that I have lost most of my confidence in MS after the Vista disaster (mostly for MS themselves), the Mojave "experiment", and now the fixer-upper approach on 7. It may all just be a feeling I sit back with, but whether it´s true or not that´s a very real problem for MS´s marketing and UX departments.
- Thomas Bøhm
The biggest problem (or the reason for problems) about Longhorn/Vista was project management and processes. They were forced to do the "Longhorn reset", start over from scratch after 2.5 years. That's one reason it lost many promised features and lot of development/fine tuning time. Instead of the Longhorn, they did Vista as a basis for future OSs, like the Windows 7. Fortunately processes were changed a lot, too.
- Jemm
bwhahahahahaahah give it away? keep dreaming, people.
- Terry O'Fee
we sadly do not live in a world where the big companies think. "you know, i feel really really bad. let's give the next one away". Microsoft does not equal Trent Reznor.
- Terry O'Fee
Then why was Steven Sinofsky (Win 7 dev chief) quoted to say: "Technically if you have a Vista machine you can install this and it will install an upgrade. That's part of what we're letting people test. But that's not a product offering. This is an offer to test the product. I would remind readers that this is a beta product. This is not a done product. That means there are bugs in it...
more...
- Mona Nomura
from IM
They could have done a free upgrade to make up for the fact they lost some trust etc..look at the IE haters lol.. and maybe had a deal where they got feedback...say a form that users filled in once a week... if not filled in, then they could probably disable it or somthing untill form sent. ;o) Imagine how much they could improve that as they went with the amount of feedback.
- Rob Sellen :o)
microsoft do not owe us anything. they fucked up, granted, and vista was a mistake. they are seeing that with their "vista ready" shitfight. but let's be honest. this isn't some simple upgrade to vista, or a newer version of XP. this is a brand new operating system, of course they're going to pay. if they said "we've fixed vista and we're going to charge you 100 dollars for the privilage", i'd be pissed off.
- Terry O'Fee
because "this is a test". it's not the full program. it's hardly completed. but really, if you're into that whole "everything should be free" ideal, look at ubuntu. i still have hope they can get their act together and get a decent OS running that will make MS pee themselves a little. :P
- Terry O'Fee
I'm going to "like" this cause it's so funny..
- Terry O'Fee
??? We're not saying everythign should be free (at least I'm not). Look, if a consumer targeted OS takes more than an hour to learn PLUS people have to customize in order to efficiently function? No, that is a defunct product and it is NOT ok. Why do you think MSFT was giving out XP FREE to users that bought new computers and didn't want Vista? Fact: Vista is a mess. And Microsoft owes the paying customers a functional product - Windows 7.
- Mona Nomura
If you want free upgrades, Linux distros such as Ubuntu or Mandriva might be good.
- Rishabh Mishra (p248)
WHY did they do Vista then? what was the aim over xp? I haven't used vista so dont have a VALID opnion on it.. I mentioned the free comment above in realtion to the vista users mainly.. :o) I wouldn't expect it free, though I wouldn't complain if it was... :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
@Mona .. they obviously didn't read my post on that idea did they LOL :)
- Steven Hodson
why did they do vista? cause they're money grabbing bastards, thats why. im still using XP myself. i'd be making a post more on "vista - i want my money back!"
- Terry O'Fee
$120. I'd buy it for that.
- Bwana ☠
they should offer cheaper upgrades for vista, if possible. i grant you that.
- Terry O'Fee
If a consumer purchased a new computer within the last year or so, they also purchased a MSFT license for a crappy unintuitive RAM hog. WHY should they pay? Makes no sense.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
++++++mona! :o) I agree!
- Rob Sellen :o)
I know it's not fair Mona, but lets be honest - when have MS ever given anything away? If you don't like it, you can always go to Apple, which products are twice the price or a linux install and hope there's not too much of a headache to set it up....
- Terry O'Fee
I don't agree. If a consumer bought a new computer within the last year or so, they should be able to run Vista just fine. The early performance complaints of Vista were from older computers.
- Alan Le
So that's how you treat consumers? Especially in an unstable market where Apples are becoming more widely used? Don't like us? F*ck off? I don't know about you, but as a long time Windows user now Mac convert, I'd like to see Windows succeed.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Maybe this is the difference between Apple and Microsoft, Mona. Apple released OS X 10.1 as a free upgrade from 10.0 (which was arguably worse than Vista). We're in a different situation though. Everybody is cutting costs left and right (including Microsoft) and no matter what they did last year, THIS year is different. I expect very little "free" anything this year. It'd be a stretch for Microsoft to do this in a good year, but it's even more a stretch to even think about it this year.
- Bwana ☠
If MSFT has the $$$ to throw away resources on applications that have been hybernating (play ready ring a bell? what's going on with "pink"?) They sure as heck should have the funds to service their clients. I played with a Vista machine for the first time a few weeks ago and was utterly appalled. That said, I am excited for Windows 7 CTP
- Mona Nomura
from IM
that's what im trying to say. i'm no big fan of the MS either (despite me using it) but didn't MS just lay people off as well? Good intentions aren't going to pay the bills.
- Terry O'Fee
Those are 2008 funds... 2009 has different budgets
- Bwana ☠
Oh and you will see those "throw away" resources dwindle
- Bwana ☠
If you want free, go Linux or use them trendy torrent sites. Microsoft doesn't owe anybody a new product just because customers had a gripe about their old product.
- Jon, the Beartato of FF
Bwana - also Apple sell the OS and the computer to go with it. MS don't sell the PCs (yet - actually no. I don't want the red ring of death on a PC too :P)
- Terry O'Fee
Look, I see where you're coming from Bwana but I highly disagre. MSFT is going more and more downhill and is this a smart business move for them? You have to spend money to make money and we've been under the MSFT reign for so long, they were free to do whatever the EF they wanted. Average consumers don't have the time nor the resources to install free open source OSs nor do they want...
more...
- Mona Nomura
from IM
all a free upgrade will do is get reports in the tech blogs. you really think word of mouth is going to spread to the average user who is looking for a new computer?
- Terry O'Fee
What are you talking about?
- Mona Nomura
from IM
It'll be cheap anyway if they are going on Netbooks. Or vendors will make it cheap by installing crapware.
- Rodfather
So if consumers get free upgrades, what about businesses? That's a huge piece of the pie. I agree with your reasoning Mona, but I simply don't think it's going to happen.
- Bwana ☠
I don't know about free upgrade, but it needs to be cheaper for Vista users as there aren't many features in Windows 7 compared to Vista. Performance is better but that's what it should have been with Vista.
- Vaibhav
What about existing customers who are stuck with a crap OS? I am not around techies all day and there are a lot of people that can't even hook up their computer to WiFi - or have major issues when troubleshooting. I mean look at that frickin' UX! On top of that, it's slow! Hey for all you people that know and love Vista? I commend you all but usability is number one and Vista is a nightmare.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
@Mona Who said Microsoft is going downhill? I'm not sure what you use to gauge company health, but 60B in revenue and a 30% profit margin seem like they'd contradict the thought that we're a struggling company. http://finance.yahoo.com/q...
- Paul Whitaker
You said it at the beginning, it's about principle, and principle ain't gonna sway the accountants. Reality :/
- Bwana ☠
Proof right there they should give Vista away for free TO EXISTING CUSTOMERS FOR AN UPGRADE.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
For those who bought Vista Business, they already have XP disks to use. Vista isn't a failure so there shouldn't be compensation. Windows 7 is not a Vista upgrade anyway. At least not marketed that way.
- Rodfather
Mona, you might as well buy a car and then expect a free upgrade when the new model comes out the following year because you didn't like the one you have or couldn't figure out how to drive it properly.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Seriously? You expect the people who made this to not get paid? No revenue? You've gotta weird picture of how the world works.
- Ernie Oporto
It's not unheard of, like I said, Apple did it with OS X 10.0 -> 10.1. I just think there's outside factors that are going to prevent MS from taking this leap.
- Bwana ☠
But for cars and I can customize the way I want to. I can't afford a paddle shift all leather bimmer wiht a sun roof, so I'll settle with a cheaper manual w/ a sunroof option that might be thrown or perhaps go with an automatic with no sun roof. They all drive properly but there are choices. Terrible example, Akiva.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Service packs like Vista SP1 were free. Windows 7 is not a service pack.
- Alan Le
Bwana - it's called customer service LOL
- Mona Nomura
from IM
It might as well be a SP because it's basically the same thing, re-packaged with a few UI tweaks (from what I'm reading)
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Mona, your response to me makes no sense.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Why you would equate Microsoft to a car in the first place makes no sense.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Especially Vista.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Its a good thought, however its not going to happen. It should however be reasonably priced like an Apple upgrade, and there should not be so many different versions perhaps 2 home user and business user.
- Dean Blithe
See, Vista is not a failed product. I've shared articles on my feed listing reasons (consumers can understand) why it is not. However, an OS should not take over an hour to learn and certainly shouldn't require tweaking in order for it to run smooth. Tech savvy people LOVE it. Consumers hate it. So who is Vista really for?
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Mona, basically it appears that you want a free upgrade because you didn't like the Vista experience. That is the same as buying a car and then not liking it and expecting the next generation of the model for free (and I chose a car as an example because it follows a pattern similar to OS releases). You might as well whine to Apple and say that you bought a Mac but you hate the Dock so you expect the next version of OS X for free.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I don't have a MSFT machine anymore and stayed away from Vista - as far away as possible. It is NOT the same as buying a car, since there are HUNDREDS of cars to choose from. How many platforms do we have to choose from? What about the peopel who can't afford Apples? I know many people that have purchased cheap(er) computers with Vista and have nothing but issues because they don't know how to use it. Is it really their fault they purchased a new computer and forced to use Vista?
- Mona Nomura
from IM
So your complaint now isn't with Vista but it's with the fact that OEMs bundle with Vista? Take it up with the OEMs. I mean, last I checked, if you bought an Apple, you only had one choice of OS, too. At least most PC OEMs gave you the option of XP.
- Akiva Moskovitz
LOL!! Ok, Akiva. You win. But that still doesn't change the fact Windows 7 is a pre-packeged Vista with UI tweaks.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Hiding this before I say something mean.
- Paul Whitaker
Yeah and that's no different than Snow Leopard being pre-packaged Leopard with under-the-hood tweaks.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I haven't said anything about Mac or people should get a Mac, omg LOL. All I am saying is, as a general business practice if you sell a flawed product they (MSFT) as a company should take steps to rectify it. They did something that threw everyone off by offering XP down? upgrades? for existing Vista consumers. That right there shows how unhappy people were with the experience. Why NOT offer Windows 7 free to users that already have Vista on their machines newly purchased?
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Paul Whitaker's a turdhead!
- Akiva Moskovitz
It is not. Microsoft didn't spend 3 years doing UI tweaks.
- Alan Le
The UX is flawed, Alan... All devs I know LOVE Vista, consumer hate it. :(
- Mona Nomura
Dude, they're still using... Tahoma in the shell. It's painful.
- l0ckergn0me
Mona, I use both OSX and Vista and now Windows 7. For me Windows is more practical for gaming and work. I don't think it's flawed. I however love to use OSX while browsing and to do creative work. I'm not a typical consumer though as you pointed out.
- Alan Le
l0ckergn0me, I thought it as all Segui UI these days.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Definitely should be free (or at least slightly under 20$). This would propel Microsoft ahead immensely.
- Brandon Titus
Microsoft is not ahead and have a monopoly with its OS? tell that the the EU.
- Alan Le
LOL @Matt.
- Alan Le
Oh, dang, I KNEW I should be doing *something*...
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Yes. Next question?
- Martha
I agree, it should be free or possibly $50 tops. But that wouldn't be the Microsoft way of doing things.
- Sloan Bowman
Vista has worked very well for me in a corporate domain setting. We've only used Vista with new computers though. XP was fine for what we do. Every average user that I have setup with Vista was resistant and hesitant at first because of the bad publicity they heard. Every single one of them have thoroughly enjoyed using Vista and would never go back to XP. Windows 7 thus far for me seems like many modest improvements to Vista which add up to a very good OS. However, it must be a free or under $50 upgrade.
- Jim Bednarz
I can't believe no one has a made a counterpoint thread "Why Windows 7 should cost 3 paychecks"
- Matthew DeVries
@Jim - Agreed, almost everyone who actually USED Vista for more than a week with a bad attitude loves it once they get used to the changes. It is stable, secure, fast and does things that you really really miss when you go back to XP.
- Soulhuntre
Win7's real value is in giving all the pundits and a-listers who are so emotionally invested in Vista floppign a chance to admit they were wrong without having to say they were wrong. They cna go on and on about how good Win7 is and never amdit that the core tech is all Vista baby.
- Soulhuntre
That being said, Win7 does do things nicer than vista and runs equally well on my primary quad core and my Dell Mini9 - which is flat out awesome.
- Soulhuntre
Twitter Decides To Hire Somebody Whose Job It Is to Make Money - http://www.techcrunch.com/2009...
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- Tadhg Kelly
from twhirl
That song is now in my top 10!!!!
- timedalkat
from twhirl
Skype 4 Beta 3 Adds Outlook Support, Bandwidth Manager [Skype] - http://lifehacker.com/5108227...
Skype/outlook support. Message me if you're on Skype so we can connect.
- Tadhg Kelly
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