Tamar Weinberg - Comments

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It’s time to abolish free apps on the AppStore - http://www.macgasm.net/2009...

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leave the free apps alone if you don't like them don't install them - Daryl Hunt on FF from BuddyFeed

46 more comments

no - Will Higgins™

no - Shey, Jamaican of FF

Daryl, when a dev firm can't make more than 21 dollars a day, for each day they worked on the project there's something clearly wrong with the culture on the AppStore. - Joshua Schnell

Also, the argument isn't about liking the free apps. It's about developers not being able to develop for a platform because it doesn't nearly pay out enough to employ themselves. If we keep expecting free apps from developers, the developers are eventually going to leave the iPhone behind because they can't afford to sustain themselves financially. - Joshua Schnell

Shey, Will, care to elaborate? - Joshua Schnell

They're not going to elaborate because they are merely reading the title and not reading the story. Daryl didn't read the story either it appears. - Tamar Weinberg

Here are some snippets for the lazy (cough Daryl/Will/Shey cough): "When a development firm such as blacksmith games puts together an entire month worth of free downloads for the iPhone community, and the community can’t turn around and support the developer by purchasing a $1.99 application in the appstore, something’s clearly rotten in the state of the AppStore." - Tamar Weinberg

Actually, I did read the article. But I'll forgive your snarky comment. :). Reading the article doesn't automatically mean I'm going to agree. Cuz I don't. - Shey, Jamaican of FF

"A dollar ninety-nine for a mobile game is a steal no matter how awesome or crappy a game is, and the fact that a development firm tosses out a tweet that says, “if 5% of the daily appvent visitors would buy plushed i would be happy” reveals a pretty grotesque commentary on iPhone users and their purchasing tendencies." - Tamar Weinberg

Then why just a "no"? Maybe you can add a little more? Surely it's not that difficult... - Tamar Weinberg

In the middle of typing a response... if you guys could just give me a minute... - Shey, Jamaican of FF

Might've been a good idea to say that before the "no." I know it's FF culture not to read articles but only to comment on titles - so apologies if I was misjudging you there, but based on Daryl's comment, it's evident that at least one person didn't read it. - Tamar Weinberg

No. - Akiva Moskovitz

(Just kidding.) - Akiva Moskovitz

LOL@Akiva - Shey, Jamaican of FF

I will let you do that, Akiva. ;) - Tamar Weinberg

First of all -- products and services should be aimed at filling market needs. If you focus on that, you'll succeed. Secondly, if people want to download crappy free apps that are easy to find and that makes them happy, guess what? NEED SOLVED. If there is a market for people who want an app that does more and are willing to pay for it and you can fill that need --- NEED SOLVED. If there isn't a market for it, then don't complain about it -- create a better product or fill another need. - Shey, Jamaican of FF

Shey, fair points, but it's not an issue of a "better product" when the culture of free makes "better products" harder to sell. - Tamar Weinberg

Thirdly, it isn't the customer's fault that your development costs are too high. - Shey, Jamaican of FF

No, it's not. But this isn't that abnormal for this market. I bet development costs are high for every decent game in the app store. - Tamar Weinberg

The bottom line is that the culture shift has made it impossible for GOOD products to sell. Look at this article from TUAW: http://www.tuaw.com/2009... - Tamar Weinberg

@Tamar I totally get the damaging effects of "the culture of free". That culture will always be around, so you can a) fight it and reduce your share of the market or b) embrace it, and yes, competition will increase, but so will the overall iPhone share and your share of that share. Get it :) - Shey, Jamaican of FF

It's a shame to have really great products that can't sell. But in the end, if no one is willing to pay for it -- competition or not -- that's all that matters. - Shey, Jamaican of FF

I understand that. I also think Josh's argument is very valid. If App store apps had to cost money, it wouldn't always be around. Embracing it in a competitive market with over 100k games is damn hard. TUAW says it nicely, "Everyone is still working to unlock success in the App Store, but with over 100,000 products on the shelves, it has become increasingly more difficult for the good apps to stand apart." - Tamar Weinberg

People would be more willing to pay for it if there weren't so many free games in the app store. I personally am guilty of it. I won't buy games because there are free apps that can consume my time, even if the games rock. - Tamar Weinberg

@Tamar Then I think the problem is not with the free apps. The problem is with the iTunes' capability of showcasing good apps through social/recommendation engines. - Shey, Jamaican of FF

@Tamar I agree there -- but you won't get anywhere close to 100% conversion. And when others find out that apps are no longer free -- they'll just go to another platform, like Android, and all iPhone devs will lose. - Shey, Jamaican of FF

The App Store needs Amazon's ability to produce recommendations based on what you've downloaded (and from other people who have downloaded what you've downloaded). Right now, it's these big pools of apps that aren't really, in any way, differentiated from each other except by title and icon and very loose definitions. 'New and Noteworthy' and 'What's Hot' don't really tell me ANYTHING... more... - Akiva Moskovitz

Shey, maybe social recommendation engines work, but I'm not seeing the power in those that I'm engaged in. I'm also not looking at 100% conversion, but some conversion that translates to decent sales would be nice. And personally, I think it's close-minded and stupid for developers to only focus on the iPhone market. I personally am not going to buy an iPhone. I'll keep my iPod touch and get an Android phone. If only developers would flock to the Android platform. - Tamar Weinberg

Woah, I jump in the shower and come back to a boat load of comments... catching up... responses to follow. ;) - Joshua Schnell

Akiva, there are recommendations, but I personally used them 1% of the time. There's a "Customers Also Bought" section on the bottom of each app's page though, but it's not very popular. - Tamar Weinberg

I think this can all be summed up with "Free != Best Option". If we stop categorizing things as Free and Not Free we might actually get better recommendations, and find applications that can provide us with the greatest marginal utility. I'd love to see the analytics on the amount of users who just go straight to the free section of the store. - Joshua Schnell

Akiva, I completely agree with the recommendation engine needing serious work. I've commented on it a number of times on the site, primarily here: http://su.pr/1TfAHz and here: http://su.pr/1I0Exv Apple really needs to rework the system. They're long overdue, and need to start embracing social media technologies. - Joshua Schnell

On a tangent, Blacksmith Games sound like they were operating inefficiently, art, story, and level design can be done in parrallel, at least for a small portion of the time. They should also focus on building a game engine that can be used as a frame work, reducing overall time for initial production down a few months, and subsequent titles at maybe half the total time, the story and... more... - Jimminy Fuller

WinMo has had free apps since 2000, if not sooner. What makes iPhone so special that their devs -- many of whom switched over -- can't keep up? Palm has had free apps forever, too. No tears, no abolition. - MiniMage TKDteacher of FF

I just took a look at my phone. My ratio of paid to free apps is currently at 4:1. In my case, "the culture of free" isn't an issue. - cecily

Jimminy, those are excellent point, but what about the barrier of entry in to a market? If the barrier is so high that new comers can't compete, or even break even, won't developers give up on the system? It worries me that innovative applications might not make it to the device because a developer can't afford to develop for the iphone. Blacksmith Games was just an example, but they're surely not the exception to the rule. - Joshua Schnell

If it's good, best of breed, then it will sell. That's why Tweetie beats out a lot of the free Twitter apps. But, seriously, how many tower defense/match-3/cute-adventures/on-rails-shooters do we need? Or Twitter clients? If the money is not there then stop complaining and take the development effort elsewhere. Android will be *the* platform next year so start now, and you also get to... more... - Andy Bold

Akiva, there's a 'Genius' for apps now. It's a little hit-and-miss, like Amazon's recs', but it's getting better. - Andy Bold

And why the focus only on games? The fact that I don't have very many of them might have something to do with my ratio, but are utility/office/productivity developers also singing the same tune, or is it just this one company that had visions of dollar signs dancing in their heads who jumped into an *oversaturated* market? - cecily

Cecily, that's awesome. How funny would it be if Apple released that ratio. I'd probably be shamed publicly. ;) I think the problem is across the board. I know i'm guilty of looking for a free option first. Why pay 10.00 for omnifocus's app, when I can get something for free. - Joshua Schnell

Omnifocus is only $10 now? When I bought it it was $20. I don't want to see free apps go away totally, but what I would like to see is more free, ad-supported versions of apps that exist alongside the paid versions. Why can't we have time-sensitive demo apps on the iPhone the same way we do on our desktops? Is that even possible? If games developers are so worried about getting lost in... more... - cecily

Isn't Joshua's argument centered on the advertising that takes place at the point of sale. If a developer wants to advertise their app to me, find me and present a compelling reason for me to buy your app. Trying to gain my patronage in the handful of minutes I spend browsing the app store isn't a winning strategy for positioning your product. I spend my life out in the world, reading... more... - Christopher Harley

I'll add this sidebar to the discussion. My cab company desperately needs to understand what our mobile app should do, correctly, right from day one. We can't afford to deliver a product to our customers that isn't immediately bulletproof. Yet no developers are beating down our door to describe to us what we can expect from their talents and what we should pay to tap into that talent.... more... - Christopher Harley

LOL Christopher, in that case, I hope they aren't successful. They should be looking for prospective buyers who can pay up front, not at the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. - Tamar Weinberg

This is a really interesting article and discussion. While yes, there are many things the developers can do to improve their chances (and hey, if the market wants something, you have to work with that fact, not against it), I don't think that Apple is entirely blameless in this whole dysfunctional arrangement. The single choke-point (with not very good recommendation or exposure... more... - Chieze Okoye

Don't forget about in-app purchases feature, which was recently introduced for free apps. Some of the apps (namely, Eliminate) made a fortune off in-app purchases, while remaining free. - Pavlo Zahozhenko

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