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Todd Defren › Comments
Q1 - September 4, 2009: Kicking things off -- How do you manage a well-known 'influencer' who is possibly undermining the purpose of the community? Abusing that power vs. utilizing it for the purpose of the community.
Tough one. Anyone have any examples where this has happened to them or a brand they know about?
- Jason Peck
OMG, this is so timely for me. I just had to ban one and the backlash was crazy. I've had to show him that he can't do whatever the heck he pleases. He called my boss.
- Angela
Definitely a tough one. Much different when it's an influencer than when it's a troll.
- Teresa Basich
Exactly, much different because it's not always someone you can easily get rid of.
- Sonny Gill
@Angela - that's crazy timing! What has happened since the backlash and the call to your boss?
- Sonny Gill
Wow, Angela, how did your boss respond?
- Teresa Basich
There have been countless blogs about me and how unfair I am. There have been others saying it was about time because I was holding his hand.
- Angela
Oh, my boss heard the deal and understands that i have to do what I have to do. I am the only one who knows anything about the doggone community and they know it!
- Angela
This is tricky. An influencer can take a good chunk of your members with him or her if they leave or are forced to leave the community.
- Lou Ordorica
I've had this happen before actually - a potential partner was abusing the internal messaging system of a community I was involve with. Friending a bunch of people and sending unsolicited messages to them. We warned him 2x and banned him the third time.
- Jason Peck
Do you feel it has adversely effected the community and how they view you as their CM?
- Sonny Gill
Nope. I am not even worried about it. I think it sent a message that needed to be sent. I have moved on and continue to create content, communicate with people, engage, etc...
- Angela
Good point Lou - many of us look up to these influencers or industry-leaders and would easily make that move with them.
- Sonny Gill
Lou is right - have to be sensitive on how you handle it- best option is to handle in a more personal way than email I'd say so your perspective/opinion doesn't get taken the wrong way.
- Jason Peck
Good on you Angela - have to keep strong vs. letting the community take over.
- Sonny Gill
I would hope value of community would outshine value of following that particular influencer. Of course there will be people who won't see that value.
- Teresa Basich
I was stressed about it for a day and then i went on vacation. Amazing what that did for me.
- Angela
Speak to them privately first. If they continue you have to stop them participating in the community. As Angela says they can't be allowed to control the conversations.
- Sue
Angela, I would approach him and ask him to be non-destructive and positive. If he is saying you are unfair, then it's not really in the spirit of the community. Ask him to stop nicely, and be firm in laying out consequences for being destructive.
- Maria Ogneva
@Jason - right, so taking smaller steps towards the person and issue vs. reacting harshly or not at all.
- Sonny Gill
He did send me a threatening email though, guys. Forgot to mention that.
- Angela
Don't be afraid to follow through on your words. That will foster a more collegiate atmosphere - that this type of behavior won't be tolerated.
- Maria Ogneva
re: original question... have them partner with you on a constructive project for the community.
- Jim Storer
@Maria...I'd done that with him so many times. He used to call me twice per week. Trust me. I went to the ends of the earth for this user. v
- Angela
It sounds like you dealt with it as best you could, Angela. And as long as the community moves on past the blip, as long as content and connections are stlll happening, isn't that what counts?
- Teresa Basich
Well, that definitely reinforces your stance and decision, Angela.
- Sonny Gill
Doesn't this raise a scalability issue? In a cast of thousands, might you have 50 or more abusers? Then what?
- Todd Defren
That's a really great suggestion, Jim. But what if they just want to take advantage of your community, not help improve or contribute to it?
- Teresa Basich
@jim, we had that work for us. The person was looking to utilize our community to push his service. In the end he became an advertiser and now has a vendor forum which members can use to ask him advice/questions about his product.
- Sue
@Todd. Absolutely. I have been saying that. Scalability is an issue. I got this one, but there are more to come and I miss many. Can't be everywhere at once and I recently told my boss that if we are not going to provide adequate resources, we have to accept the outcome.
- Angela
@theresa then they'd be engaging against the community guidelines and should be banned
- Jim Storer
@Jim So, reinforce what the purpose is by leading them to a project that contributes? Sounds like a great idea.
- Joe Kikta
There's no place for that kind of behavior. I would ban him and write a post *in general* without mentioning specifics, explaining your side of the story about how the community can't sustain that kind of behavior and asking people to be respectful. When communicating with community, you have to be transparent and objective. if you don't share your viewpoint, I'm afraid the other members may fill in their own blanks.
- Maria Ogneva
Sonny said the offender was an "influencer," so that probably means he/she has done plenty of good in the community. Not a complete troll.
- Bryan Person
@Maria Yes. But when you do share that viewpoint, not everyone sees it. So it is never really understood by all.
- Angela
Angela, was this guy ever a helpful member of the community, or was he always a troublemaker?
- Bryan Person
@Angela Very true. But it's always better to be proactive :) I think.
- Maria Ogneva
@Bryan I could see how some people may get desperate in these tough times and "go off the reservation" per se.
- Joe Kikta
@bryan right - someone that has strayed... not all that bad, just need to be steered back on track.
- Jim Storer
Yes Bryan I agee.An influencer is not the same as a troll. Most often they really do want to help the community, they just go the wrong way about it.
- Sue
@bryan @jim I think that's where Jim's suggestion is a good one. Gently guide them back on the right path.
- Joe Kikta
Also try to think about things from the troublemaker's perspective - why is he/she doing these things to potentially hurt the community? It's possible that he/she is just trying to help and just needs gentle reminder or clarification on what is accepted and what would be helpful
- Jason Peck
He was absolutely helpful Bryan. That's why it was so hard. He had a really good weather group was an excellent debater, but he was also rude and did violate guidelines. I think that he felt he was too valuable and infallible. People were even complaining to me about that very thing. He started talking about who belonged and who didn't.
- Angela
How do you counter negative feedback from a good % of your community that may have sided with this influencer? Have they lost the urge to participate? What things can a CM do to help regain that?
- Sonny Gill
@angela sometimes you run into a member that won't argue reasonably... and that's really tough. It sounds like you may have had one of those on your hands?
- Jim Storer
Angela: have you tried finding out what's causing it? perhaps he is unhappy about something, or just wants attention?
- Maria Ogneva
@Jim, I truly believe I exhausted all resources. It had to end.
- Angela
maybe they live in Austin and just can't take the heat anymore... (jk)
- Jim Storer
@Maria He didn't want the very things he did to others being done to him. Period. Source of unhappiness.
- Angela
This conversation reminds me of the Packers deciding to pass on Brett Favre's un-retirement. Very painful decision, but the back office felt it was the right for the team. It did cost them fans and support, though.
- Lou Ordorica
@angela that's an untenable situation... i hope your boss supported you.
- Jim Storer
@Jim: We've had 60+ days above 100 this year. It's definitely time to cool off!
- Bryan Person
@Jim. He did. My bosses don't understand why many of the people in the community are still there. They aren't charged with growing it though. Our attorney tells me I'm too close to the goings-on in the community. Wants me to step back. Step back but stay engaged, right? I'm working on it.
- Angela
@Sonny To a degree, don't you have to be proactive and establish rock solid relationships with your main contributors/influencers when things are good and they can help you out when bad things happen?
- Joe Kikta
@sonny, I've found often in situations like these that people just go along with the influencer for a quiet life and are actually quite relieved they have gone.
- Sue
@Lou: Not a bad analogy. Favre was unquestionably an influencer in Green Bay, arguably their best player ever. Making the decision to move on without him was undoubtedly a gut-wrenching one, but I'd argue it was the right one for the club and the community.
- Bryan Person
@Bryan Well, I guess we'll find out this year with them playing in the same division, right?
- Joe Kikta
@bryan, very true. Long term thinking and strategy isn't valued, unfortunately.
- Lou Ordorica
@Joe - right. As sue stated, it's quite possible that the community just has a sense of relief once that person is gone.
- Sonny Gill
Q2 is posted in case you haven't scrolled up!
- Sonny Gill
Thanks for heads up on Q2. I like using FF, but telling us to scroll up is best way to run.
- Joe Kikta
September 4th, 2009 - RANDOM: Welcome everybody! About a half hour until we get this started but feel free to mingle, introduce yourselves, and post any possible topics you'd like covered!
Where's the bar? :-)
- Jim Storer
Howdy!
- Jason Peck
Jim - the bar is awaiting you come 2pm EST ;)
- Sonny Gill
What's up Jason! Good to see you here man.
- Sonny Gill
good to be here
- Jason Peck
Any pressing thoughts or questions you guys wanna ask? Shoot em out - we can queue it up for today's chat.
- Sonny Gill
possible topic of discussion. Fan clubs have been around for a long time (ex: Burger King Kids Club, fan clubs for tons of bands, etc). What are some of the best examples of these that you've seen where a company has taken their offline fan club and brought it online?
- Jason Peck
Good topic there. So something that was creating from brick & mortar and evolved into a cmty online?
- Sonny Gill
A frank discussion about the value of online communities and how much we charge could be interesting.
- Richard Millington
Hi all, hope you are having a great day. It's beautiful weather here in Charlotte today.
- Sue
Hello, everyone! Welcome back, Rich.
- Bryan Person
@Sonny - yes that's exactly what I meant- you worded it better than I did
- Jason Peck
Good one Richard - I like that. Hey Sue - enjoy the weather over there!
- Sonny Gill
Hi all! Happy Friday. :)
- Teresa Basich
Hey Teresa! Happy Friday indeed!
- Sonny Gill
I second Jim's question: Where IS the bar?
- Bryan Person
I found the bar... http://www.partyingjamaica.com/swim... - c'mon in, the water's nice.
- Jim Storer
Um, if you're there right now Jim - I hate you. :)
- Sonny Gill
I've got a case of Canadian Club Whisky in my office. *Here's* the bar! (CC are clients - gotta love 'em!)
- Todd Defren
@todd - buzz me up when I arrive...
- Jim Storer
@Todd: Hey there! We'd love your take on Q1: Dealing with an 'influencer' who's potentially undermining the community.
- Bryan Person
Todd - CC is one of my favorite Whiskeys!
- Sonny Gill
Jack and coke is my drink of choice. It must be noon somewhere, maybe I should have a drink. :)
- Lou Ordorica
Bad news: @armano's "lifestreaming." I disapprove. Good news: he's no less $#&%ing interesting. http://davidarmano.posterous.com/learnin...
Cathryn Hrudicka liked this
Why disapprove? It just seems like another form of blogging and doesn't take away from @armano's other excellent blogs, IMO. I'm honestly curious because I just set up a Posterous acct. today and am figuring out how to use it effectively, probably not just for "lifestreaming."
- Cathryn Hrudicka
There's such a thing as too much content; being too available. ;)
- Todd Defren
from email
Donate $1 to @Kiva simply by checking "how you're doing" in saving for retirement, thanks to @WellsFargo (client)
Cathryn Hrudicka liked this
@WellsFargo needs to have better customer service, in addition to maintaining a social media presence and supporting good causes (which is commendable). I could give you LOTS of examples of poor customer service, unfortunately. @AskWellsFargo needs to be more aware of these problems.
- Cathryn Hrudicka
message received
- Todd Defren
Thanks, Todd—@WellsFargo is very fortunate to have Shift helping them listen and converse with their customers. I'm sure this will help them improve in responding.
- Cathryn Hrudicka
Man tweetdeck is a major resource hog, I'm sticking to browser interface
Dimitar Vesselinov, John Coslovich, Sharon McPherson and 4 other people liked this
you shoudl give peoplebrowsr a try...more power than tweetdeck, all in a browser interface..not a resource hog either. (more attentive developers too IMO)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
if you're on a mac for the love of God try eventbox or Nambu. The bleeding edge version of event box has 'smart groups'.
- Zee.
You should try Tweetvisor. It's like Tweetdeck in your browser :)
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
I think this is a limitation of adobe air as well. most apps on soc nets (tweetdeck, twhirl, orsiso, destroytwitter, seesmic etc.) tend to bloat after a while. I think over time Adobe will address this
- Alastair McAlpine
I'm using Nambu--it's a little twhirl and a little tweetdeck.
- Lynne d Johnson
Jeremiah, I had had same problem with TweetDeck, but persevere because I like its features
- David Eedle
yep, try http://tweetgrid.com you can tweet, dm, create groups all from the browser, create a Google chrome or Mozilla prism app shortcut and it's a great twitter monitor app.
- Wayne Sutton
I have been using the Seesmic Desktop for about 2 weeks now don't have the resource issues I had with TweetDeck. http://desktop.seesmic.com
- Peter du Toit (S.Africa)
I use twhirl mainly because it has FriendFeed support. Do you know of any other that has that? I'd love to try alternatives
- Dragos Ilinca
Dragos: Peoplebrowsr has current read friendfeed support. I do know they intend on putting in write support for comments and likes, but I don't know when that's coming yet.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
I like Twitterfox. Mini-sidebar app. No need to GO to a Twitter app; it sits right there with you while you are doing other stuff.
- Todd Defren
I love using Twitted gadget as a sidebar. It works great! Very responsive and it's all online. The developer is constantly adding features and is responsive to tweets.
- Brian Bufalo
powertwitter + flock = community management command center
- Crackle
I'm totally in love with Tweetie. Light footprint, very powerful.
- Jason Preston
marys213: Tried to change my Twitter handle after reading articles about personal branding - not an option 4 me though, too many Mary Sullivans. - http://twitter.com/marys21...
I like your personal brand just as it is.
- Todd Defren
John_SHIFT: I really dislike "LOL." Doesn't "haha" have the same effect! - http://twitter.com/John_SH...
It doesn't loll off the tongue. ;)
- Todd Defren
"Cut the PR Agency? Are You *Sure* About That?" - http://www.pr-squared.com/2008...
Kipp Bodnar liked this
5 reason PR should be the LAST thing to be cut. Tell your friends in Marketing!
- Todd Defren
NYT suggests Twitter and Facebook Status is "Ambient Awareness" do you like this phrase? http://tinyurl.com/59s2d5
~C4Chaos, Luca Filigheddu, Christian Anderson and 15 other people liked this
I like it alot, along with the article. Really well written with an understanding of what twitter is.
- Steve Garfield
from twhirl
I like it too. Quote: "For many people — particularly anyone over the age of 30 — the idea of describing your blow-by-blow activities in such detail is absurd. Why would you subject your friends to your daily minutiae? And conversely, how much of their trivia can you absorb? The growth of ambient intimacy can seem like modern narcissism taken to a new, supermetabolic extreme — the...
more...
- Roberto Bonini
And the 50+ group. Age doesn't necessarily define you. It's just a number. I like the expression but what I find is that it is mostly a "read-only" experience for most. Very little commenting going on. Agree it is a me, me, me activity.
- Dave Ploch
Aside from my preference for alliterative phrasing, I think it's an appropriate phrase. I find myself always trying to remind those who ask me about these applications that it is an "online" version of you and you need to be prepared to be vigilant with it. That's what people will see, and read, and hear about you, so you'd better think twice about what you put up there, lest you end up needing an online reputation management service.
- Cecilia Pineda Feret
Yes.
- Ontario Emperor
Good article, but I don't see "ambient awareness" catching on.
- Todd Defren
I've been turning down speaking gigs at conferences left and right, my current workload is so heavy, I don't have any time right now. Hopefully this wil llighten up in a few months
Daniel J. Pritchett liked this
Know the feeling
- Roberto Bonini
How much do you think that your speaking gigs aid Forrester's business? Have you tried to quantify it?
- Todd Defren
I get this one all the time too. Just last week I had to tell Rolling Stone that I wasn't interested in being on another magazine cover ;)
- Daniel J. Pritchett
How PR Can Help Some Startups: Perspective of one Industry Analyst - http://www.web-strategist.com/blog...
Charlie Anzman, Josh Dilworth, Bukola and 3 other people liked this
Amen, hallelujah, and thank you. I commented @ the blog but this is the week that I've set aside to "follow Jeremiah on FF" so wanted to weigh in here, too.
- Todd Defren
There goes Jeremiah trying to throw logic and reason into an argument. How dare he!
- Rob Diana
Before embarking on a new launch, and to better inform PR efforts, I'm a big fan of Listening Campaigns. Do you have a perspective on Radian6, the social media monitoring tool that Dell just started using? Currently we engage a 3rd party, but obviously costs are high -- because I like the human-read on analytics...
- Marko Bon
What's better than a video resume? A video of you demonstrating your abilities: Speaking, webinar, how to guide. etc --SHOW, don't tell!
Todd Defren, Hutch Carpenter, Johannes Kleske and 4 other people liked this
Now to find companies who accept vid. resumes. :D
- Ron
Hm, does that mean that I should just send them the link to my lifestream? ;-)
- Johannes Kleske
You are probably 3 years ahead of everyone else on this one.
- Todd Defren
Saw a demo today of a company that has built an internal twitter tool, pretty interesting. The company 'watercooler'
Ben Austwick, Todd Defren, Merredith Branscombe and 2 other people liked this
i would be interested in see that too - can you send them my way?
- mike "glemak" dunn
Potentially a great way to break the wall between employees willingness to lurk on internal social media tools and actually getting them contributing beyond comments. What was their experience of it or are they still in the process of launching?
- mattpovey
that's a client. lemme know if there's anything missing from their presentation, so we can help them improve for future briefings? glad you seemed to like their story...
- Todd Defren
Would you have ever guessed that the second largest population of English speakers is a country in Asian? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
Bukola, Kim Landwehr and Ken Stewart | ChangeForge liked this
We may not recognize it as the English we all know, but more of a hybrid. That's not a bad thing - that's just linguistic evolution.
- Todd Defren
Do you have a hard to pronounce last name? Share with the world how to pronounce it. I'll start: "Ow-Yang" like I kicked ya.
Todd Mundt, Daniel Rowley, Elliott Ng and 10 other people liked this
ROO BELL not ROO BULL :-)
- Steve Rubel
Any guess how to pronounce Finder?
- Lisa Finder
Just like my online name is spell Q-Thrul i.e. qthrul
- Jay Cuthrell
spelling is my problem. Even Scoble today still can't spell my last name right
- Duncan Riley
Kohn. Like ice cream cone, or pine cone. Not cohen,
- AJ Kohn
Farner. I get FARMER. A lot. Scoble has done that, too.
- Shawn Farner
@Duncan - why not just leave an opening for a scoble joke that's about a gazillion feet wide?
- jeneane sessum
Haider Ali -- pronounced Hay-der A-lee. Common errors: Hater-All, Hi-deer A-lie, Hader-all, or of course the popular, Ha-<mumble>
- Abbas Haider Ali
I don't think my name is hard to pronounce (just like doctor with an H, btw), but I can't tell you how often I get "Hector", "H-Oh-cter", "Hoccer", and even "Hooter" once in while. Strange.
- Michael Hocter
Nathan Rein. Rein rhymes with Fine and Wine. Not with Pain or Brain.
- Nathan Rein
Michael, I'm with you. People think Hofe-kur, Hof-care, Hos-kur, and weird stuff like that. It's Hof-kur. Maybe the H-O sound is hard?
- Jordan Hofker
Oh yeah. :) Turrrr - et - ski Although there's a classical musician with the same last name, but he hasn't reached household-name famous yet (Bertram Turetzky)
- Adam Turetzky
I have two: (1) Maiden name = Khan (pronounced same as Star Trek version). (2) Married name = Wyde (as in opposite of thin). It is *quite* amazing the variations I hear on both of these. I thought Wyde would be easier than Khan, but noooo... It's not wade, wadey, widey, weed, wid, etc.
- Far
geheniau is always a fun one: gè-hen-e-ou commonly pronounced as geheniaal (mix between geheniau and genious in dutch) honestly no clue why.
- nieuwbouw20
from fftogo
When someone can pronounce LeCureux "la cure" I assume they're somehow related to me
- Kevin L
Pronounced 'boodrow' (drow like throw, not like how). I've heard a gazillion pronunciations and spellings. When they get it right, it is usually followed by, "Are you from Louisiana?" :-)
- Mike Boudreaux
from fftogo
@Mike and do you know Thibodeaux?
- Nathan Rein
Sco-bull...like noble just replace the "n" with "sc"
- Alex Scoble
Well, Jeremiah, now I can stop mispronouncing your name during meetings when I cite some bit of wisdom you've shared -- which is often. (Gotta laugh at myself.)
- Ian Wilker
from twhirl
In English, "Roo-dickuh" but in Czech, hard to write in English--the HR sounds like a kind of sneeze: "HkhhRRRu-deetch-kaa!"
- Cathryn Hrudicka
Thanks Ian!
- Jeremiah Owyang
Gray. Oh... yeah. It's just "Gray".
- Louis Gray
Bon is usually pronounced "Bahn," whereas it should be something closer to Bohn. And it doesn't help when you grow up near Boston, where it comes out Maahkow Baahn. But, I let it fly. Just don't spell my name Marco ;)
- Marko Bon
NO-MOO-RA not NO-MUIR-AH. Thank you and have a pleasant day.
- Mona Nomura
Smith.
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
i apparently have a hard to spell first name
- Allen Stern
Louis, do you pronounce that "gray" or "grey"? ;)
- Jack (a.k.a. Jeber)
...
- Michael W. May
from twhirl
Mine's brutal. HAND SHAY GULL
- Patricia
You can all stop. I have so much fun with my last name since I moved from The Netherlands to the US. Try this one: Goedegebuure...
- Dennis Goedegebuure
Goh-dehg-eh-burr-eh?
- Alex Scoble
de LUKE ee, but I used to write "duh LOO key" on the board for my students
- Pete Delucchi
My last name is Denton, but that doesn't some people from trying to Africanize, Frenchify or obliterate it like Jensen, Johnson, Denise, and Dental. Husband's last name is Culici, which means everyone thinks we're Italian, but he's half-Romanian/half-Hungarian. It's COO-lee-chee. Most say 'coolissi', 'quechile', 'cooloocee'
- Admiral Anika
Donaghe - Don-ah-GEE - NOT Don-ah-HUE. Since I got married 12 years ago I have had 4 people pronounce my name correctly on the first try. One was the justice of the peace that married us (who was of Irish decent), one was a credit card help representative, one was a guy I worked with (who was also of Irish decent), and I can't remember who the other was. One reason Tad married me was because I pronounced it right on the first try when he handed my his driver's license to read it. :)
- Fa La La La Lindsay
Same problem as Duncan, people always ask how to spell my surname or completely hash it like the mail the other day addressed to Dr Snatch!
- Sally Church
Mahan - like Muh - han, with a short a, as in can. I think the proper Irish pronounciation is Mahn, but I usually get Muh - hahn, or May-han.
- Kim Mahan
you'd be surprised how many people screw up Longman
- Capn' One Eye - adrift
jeff woelker (wool-ker), not walker, not woekler, not welker
- Jeff Woelker
from twhirl
Ng (yes that's right, no vowels) is pronounced "eng" or "ing" in the US. However, if u want to be super authentic and pronounce it like u would in Hong Kong, you'd say "nnnn" with a mid-level-rising tone. :) Or in Singapore its more like "nnng"
- Elliott Ng
Frütel - I usually go with Fruetel in user names to avoid encoding issues. Correct pronounciation of the third letter is difficult for English speakers, it's somewhere between 'u' as in 'rule' and 'y' as in 'anonymous'.
- Thomas Frütel
Tregaskes: Tree-gas-kes, easy. It's Cornish but I'm not actually Cornish. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Umm, no. It's just Tower. Although everyone wants to say Towers, or Powers. We've even been the Taylors.
- ::Kristen::
My full name: Aad 't Hart (First Aad, Last 't Hart), but most addressing me by my first name use: Aad't
- Aad 't Hart
Like "Deaf-wren" not "duh-Fren"
- Todd Defren
Flickr Photo Download: Jaremiah, Analist, Forester - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
Igor Poltavskiy, Jennifer Van Grove, Gabe Wachob and 31 other people liked this
I'm simply amazed that she spelled "Jeremiah" wrong, and "Owyang" correctly. That takes talent. The talent of a qualified "Analist".
- Nathaniel Payne
FAIL.
- Hao Chen
Hey, at least she didn't spell your first name "Jeroboam."
- Sue Radd
lol :)
- Merry Xmas FFeeders - AJ
jeremiah don't feel bad - one of the bigtime vc's called me "alan" yesterday - so i feel your pain - of course i've never heard of an "analist" either - you are so talented you make up new job titles!
- Allen Stern
Nathaniel++
- Nicholas Kreidberg
ouch! double ouch!
- Jared Evans
southern spelling, with drawl
- Josh Haley
that's why i love my name. you can't spell it wrong... oh, maybe teamoe? ;)
- Timo Heuer
you could spell it Timoh or Temo or TeaMoh or Teemo, o.
- Allen Stern
analist annihilate interesting
- dougpollei
from twhirl
Triple ouch: Forrester is wrong too!
- Rodrigo Jaroszewski
at least they spelled welcome right
- Rajiv Doshi
Double FAIL! Fail wall.
- Akshay Dodeja
Triple fail! She misspelled three things
- Jeremiah Owyang
first name, title, company name - FTW!
- Todd Defren
so funny
- Neal Jansons
from twhirl
Quadruple fail if you count the name capitalization fail.
- Hao Chen
I like the NDA. : )
- Chris Brogan
pathetic... how sad
- Susan Beebe
I guess that means the NDA doesn't apply to Jeremiah Owyang
- Jeremy Brooks
aren't all successful analysts anal? Tee hee, that gave me a giggle, thanks Jeremiah
- Robin Seidner
from twhirl
anal! this should make it on Engrish soon :)
- Dave Q
This was a result of outsourcing the spell checker to overseas :P
- imabonehead
Seth Godin Joins The Ad Movement - http://www.centernetworks.com/seth-go...
Roger Kondrat, Dimitar Vesselinov, Morgan Warstler and 4 other people liked this
you're so wrong on so many levels -- let's start here. i only click on ads thst interest me and only when i have the time. whcih means that i never click on ads on what you call content. never seen one that interests me and i'm generally not shopping when reading blogs. and if you think your advertisers want to pay for a guilt driven click, you should check with them. thats click fraud allen. lots more to say about this, let;s see if this gets a reasonable response.
- Dave Winer
Allen, I have to agree with Dave on this one. I doubt advertisers would value the 'guilt-driven' clicks as highly. For that matter, I think this would actually devalue your CPC rate since advertisers would no longer know the level of engagement of the person clicking the ad.
- Jim McCusker
Holy Hell, Winer got one right. @Allen, start a conference and/or sell merchandise. Web ads are dying.
- Jason Carreira
Dave: I don't think Allen is wrong, but that he may not have said it the best way. As I wrote on his blog, we've all become blind to ads. I think he's really just asking for us to open our eyes and see if there is anything there that we would be interested in checking out. Once I did that, I saw two ads I was interested in, one about Qwest and another about a coming expo.
- Dawn
If you're basically going to demand "payment" for your content, then do it right and actually make it a pay service. People running adblockers don't just do it to avoid paying for content. They want a quieter web experience. They don't want the extra malware vector. Lots of reasons to boot or ignore web advertising, totally unrelated to screwing over the content producer.
- abacab
This is more about (e)books, but I see no reason why the general idea can't be applied to blogs: http://scalzi.com/whateve... Maybe "finding another way" is the answer, keeping your readers happy and engaged in your content, rather than forcing guilt on them about their free consumption of it.
- abacab
Allen, you know we disagree on this one. The advertisers themselves would disagree. The biggest problem is that the ads that seem to "fit" on tech blogs are preaching to the choir. What blogs make money? Celebrity gossip blogs. Why? They aren't running ads for celebrity merchandise, for the most part, but for things their readers actually buy. I'm not going to click on an ad to pay a blogger. I'm going to click on an ad because it's something I'm interested in reading more about.
- Cyndy
Allen, if you really want to follow this model then I'd suggest forcing users to view ads before being able to read the article. Of course, this will tick off a lot of people, but you can continue to justify it since you need a way to monetize. Offer a paid subscription model for readers who don't want to see ads. Limit your RSS feeds to a summary paragraph with a link back to the ad-supported article. I personally don't think the audience will put up with this, nor will advertisers support false click
- Jim McCusker
Allen, I tried literally 10 times to type a coment in your comments but no luck. The capcha just wont accept what I type. I tried both the visual & audio, capitals & no capits...absolutely no luck. Anyway, this is what I was I had to say....
- Zee.
Well, after chatting with both Allen and Cyndy on her podcast the other night, I tried a little experiment (just for kicks ... things change all the time). So far, still holding tough. Sponsors are coming. CPM is slowly going away. Not necessarily for websites but likely for blogs.
- Charlie Anzman
I heard you loud & clear Allen and believe it or not, have been stopping at yours plenty of other blogs to show my appreciation with a click of an ad...however it is so inefficient and the idea of clicking an ad for "tips-sake" is pretty ridiculous & completely defeats the purpose of advertising when most people will simply click & immediately close down the the tab/window. I'm not...
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- Zee.
Sorry for the trouble Zee - I will check with Mollom on why you received the captcha - your comment doesn't appear out of the norm. And thanks for making the attempt - more than I can say for the others.
- Allen Stern
Charlie - remember what I said on the call - sponsors are great but they want results too.
- Allen Stern
There's an absolute way to serve both masters: readers and advertisers. You can always get there from here.
- Morgan Warstler
I generally try to avoid subscribing to ad-supported blogs. Not as a principled stance, but purely for practical reasons: ad-supported writers continue to write even when there is no need for it. They write for impressions rather than people. They clutter up the flow. So in all honesty, I wouldn't miss 99% of them if they disappeared tomorrow.
- Roger Benningfield
you know what roger, that's bullshit - at least for me
- Allen Stern
Whoa. How timely. I was thinking of taking on a single sponsor up in the right hand corner, a la Scoble. But after I asked my personal advisory board, and after reading this, I think I'll make money the old fashioned way. Porn. : )
- Chris Brogan
good one chris - maybe i try escort services - im sexy!
- Allen Stern
@ChrisBrogan - I know I am only speaking for myself here, but have no desire to see you in a porno. ;)
- Todd Defren
This whole discussion reminds me of the one I started a few days ago regarding paying for music. The audience doesn't really care about you making money directly from your product. The product being your content. The answer to both is to find another way to make money.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
@ToddDefren - Well then call home and tell them not to open that brown package I sent. : )
- Chris Brogan
Rasheen - telling musicians they need to do concerts to make money will absolutely never work. It will work for the top 1% of bands, what do the other 99% do? Same thing here - for the content sources (text/video/etc) that are in the top 1%, they might be able to make it off other sources, but the rest won't - should all of them close down? When I read others postings about this topic, it always makes me wonder where people sit on the financial line.
- Allen Stern
@Allen, are you sure? I've personally known dozens of indie artists who've thrown themselves into full time musicianship, and while they aren't living the gold-plated high-life, they're able to hobble together a nice living wage between online music sales, merchandising and concert performance.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Allen: I'm reporting my local reality here. Looking at my subscription list, almost everyone on it writes to be writing. They were writing the same stuff before they figured out how to install AdSense, and they would continue doing so if Google imploded tomorrow. I wrote thousand word blog entries for years before "blog" was a word... we just called 'em forum posts or Usenet messages. No one was getting paid, but we cranked that content out anyway. That's just the way it is in my corner of the universe
- Roger Benningfield
Yeah, I think you're off there Allen... Any halfway decent band can make a living if they have a good manager getting them shows. Hell, DMB managed to get rich, and I refused to see them for free at the Georgia Theatre in Athens more than once.
- Jason Carreira
Mark/Jason - I am not a music expert
- Allen Stern
my 2cents (where's the jar?) http://www.winextra.com/2008...
- Steven Hodson
Roger, I wrote enough usenet messages and did probably 15,000 support hours on irc and never received a dime. I run CN to help startups make better decisions based on my experience and education. I spend way too many hours providing free consulting for startups across the world. I hope you will give CN a try.
- Allen Stern
I couldn't be called one either - It's been over 10 years since I was full time in the music business, so my evidence is purely anecdotal.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
just for clarification, i don't think of ads as a tip jar - i think of ads as a way to support the publishers that provide you with more information than when you woke up this morning. i always enjoy this discussion and hope one day we can setup a live panel around it
- Allen Stern
Well guilt based clicks aren't going to cut it. In fact, clicks in general probably won't cut it. Good direct marketers will find a way to make it work for *them* but the economics aren't going to be good for publishers. Make the case for brand equity - brand movement. Do users on your site think better of an advertiser than they did previously? CTR is a dying metric for ads.
- AJ Kohn
Ads are something people click because they're offering people something they (think they might) want...and that something isn't your content, it's the advertiser's product. Ads aren't something people click on to thank people for providing content. Nor should they be. Most advertisers forbid that usage anyway. It still sounds like an unworkable tip-jar scheme to me...
- abacab
And hey, why not blog it? http://www.chrisbrogan.com/the-old...
- Chris Brogan
Let me reclarify what I said in my initial post (not this one)... People should ONLY click on the ads that interest them but if they block ads because blocking is cool, they will never see the ads that they might be interested in. I spend a lot of time picking the right advertisers and ads and turn down more ads than I accept (probably why my tv set is 17 yrs old). I am NOT advocating...
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- Allen Stern
@Allen - how about 9PM EST on my Discussion Point podcast over on Talkshoe?? - you - me - the topic and whoever wants to call in
- Steven Hodson
sure sounds good Steven
- Allen Stern
cool .. I'll post the link in FF and announcement in a short bit
- Steven Hodson
@Steven are you going to have a marketeer on your 'talkshoe'? I think you should
- Roger Kondrat
Some more food for thought - http://is.gd/1X1w
- Roger Kondrat
From The Guardian [UK]: "The World's 50 most Powerful Blogs". I'm Number 31, apparently. - http://www.guardian.co.uk/technol...
diana georgescu, Casey, Jamie and 2 other people liked this
damn ... im not even mentioned
- Nils Hitze
from twhirl
Interesting choices - not sure I'd say that some of them, number 8 for example, have any power as such.
- Richard Peat
Blogs?
- Tom Novak
Congrats. Are you surprised? What will you do with your power? "With great power comes great responsibility," and all that.
- Todd Defren
from twhirl
Todd Defren, "With great imaginary power comes great imaginary responsibility". ;-)
- Hugh MacLeod
Just went public on my reasons for spending so much time in Austin recently. Hint: "Dell". http://www.gapingvoid.com/Moveabl...
Yolanda, Louis Gray and Andrew Smith liked this
The re-invention concept is made more tricky by the market's willingness to ACCEPT that re-invention. For one big brand we work on, which is undergoing a slow transformation, we're running into folks who refuse to even give them the benefit of the doubt.
- Todd Defren
from twhirl
Update: http://bit.ly/1jA7yP (Of course, now that ya know who it is, you are just as prone as everyone else to say "meh!!" ;)
- Todd Defren
Is This The Future Of Search? - http://www.techcrunch.com/2008...
David Young, Molly Metzger, Mike Fruchter and 9 other people liked this
Interesting idea; so is the Googleplex is looking to eat Digg's lunch?
- Steve Ellwood
I can't wait for the SEOs to get the boiler rooms pointed at this one.
- Mike Seidle
Holy cow.
- Brendan Cooper
from twhirl
Monumentally stupid idea. Google understands gaming better than anyone - they should be ashamed at the prospect.
- Dennis Howlett
from twhirl
This is SO obvious, once you see it in operation. GoThis is SO obvious, once you see it in operation. Good lord, the implications are astounding.od lord, the implications are astounding. My question is WHEN?
- Lisa Creech Bledsoe
from twhirl
(Why is everything repeating for me?)
- Lisa Creech Bledsoe
from twhirl
I'm with Dennis on this one. I think it's scary. I don't want marketers telling me the best search result. And yet, I *do* want humans looking at them. Think about Mahalo. Is that also monumentally wrong? Hmm... What if this ISN'T GoogleDigg (which it looks like) but GoogleMahalo? Where's Jason?
- Chris Brogan
My understanding is that you'll be able to use 'straight' Google search, and/or the Digg-like search. If not, then it should be. I don't see why this is so scary - it offers the best of both worlds, both the machine-based election for what you're searching on, and the human-based. And would it be so easy to game? Can you really game Google? As in, something that large? And if so, how does that make it lesser than Digg - assuming that is also gamable - or indeed current Google?
- Brendan Cooper
from twhirl
"The Wisdom of Crowds" is one thing. This looks more like mob rule. ;)
- Todd Defren
from twhirl
I wonder what if such a search engine had extremely good algorithm for clustering users... I mean - sorting users into crowds/clusters based on their personal preferences... And then ranking it in terms of those who think similar to me?
- A.T.
hot hot hot - Bit.ly: Please Use This TinyURL of the Future http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Denis Balencourt, Yolanda, Ayşe E. and 21 other people liked this
great stuff! and I just checked /oliver/ for my ormigo profile which has geo information to see what it finds out about it.
- Oliver Thylmann
Bit.ly is tremendous AND a mention of Asheville on your esteemed blog! Thanks, Marshall. Sam
- Sam Harrelson
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
hmm, seems like a nice replacement for smallr, have to check its bookmarklet
- Marcos Marado
But it's one character longer than is.gd! :)
- Sarah Perez
good point @Sarah, those features better be worth the character
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
+1 Sarah. But it's got tracking!
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
Experimenting with it on my latest blog post. The stats are crazy cool http://bit.ly/info...
- Bwana ☠
Is the API live yet? When I click on the API link on the bit.ly homepage, I'm shown a URL to the betaworks homepage.
- Bryan Bartow
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
It's official, I dump smallr in favour of bitly!
- Marcos Marado
very cool
- Jesse Pickard
from twhirl
This looks great. Now we just need support for it to be added to Twhirl.
- Mark Krynsky
Did anyone else found it hilarious that Marshall used is.gd to link?
- Stepan Mazurov
I like this one and the API is a great idea, but it doesn't do the autocopy to clipboard when a URL is created. I know that's a fairly simple add but it's not there currently. I still like http://is.gd for the time being and it's also built into twhirl, which I use often. Thx for the write-up!
- Chuck Reynolds
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
I found a bookmarklet for bit.ly, and replaced TinyURL bookmarklet. Fingers crossed.
- Todd Defren
In time, I hope bit.ly auto-generates and auto-copies the link a-la is.gd, adds tags a-la del.icio.us, and supports services such as Twitter a-la the "TwitIt" bookmarklet. All to save a few keystrokes, I know, but that's what spurs adoption (at least with me).
- Kawika Holbrook
from FriendFeed MT Plugin
Just cranked out an AIR app that lets me drag and drop URLs to turn them into Bit.ly urls. Great find Marshall!
- Ryan Stewart
Ryan, can we see that AIR app? sounds great
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Looks like they are running a hybrid of .Net code at their colo along with backend web services on Amazon. They should also look into creating a brandable web service that other platforms could leverage to get the analytical data. For instance, how about a Wordpress plug-in?
- Jim McCusker
ok already! is.gd is baked into Twhirl! hopefully Twhirl will sign up with Bit.ly soon, huh?
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
@pregeeth How do I keep up with it all? I budget my time. 2 hours every morning reading and blogging. Today was 3-5am
Matthias Schwenk, Johannes Kleske, Aaron Myers and 2 other people liked this
I noticed you on here at 7am ET ... what gives, J?
- David Weiner
Do you ever wake up in a sweat that you're "missing something?" Have you checked for signs of addiction?
- Todd Defren
I'm addicted, absolutely.
- Jeremiah Owyang
we need to start a 12 step program
- Michael Gartenberg
it probably doesn't hurt that you get paid to do this! it's like wondering why actors are in such great shape...
- Jeremy Toeman
Jeremy, If I stop blogging, I get the same salary. So if anything, I'm reducing my hourly value (but overall total value) ;)
- Jeremiah Owyang
Gartenberg, I'm already a step ahead of you since I admitted it. ;)
- Jeremiah Owyang
you're a f&*king animal ;)
- john conroy
Counterpoint: your role is somewhat dependent on a technology landscape that is in massive flux. If you stopped reading/blogging (and twittering, friendfeeding, etc), you'd lose your edge, and sooner or later your job would be in jeopardy. Watch out for that Louis Gray guy, he's been popular of late. ;)
- Jeremy Toeman
Do I hear you're going to join the Blogger Olympic Team?
- Reid Evans
from twhirl
Jeremy, we agree. hence I said "increasing my overall total value". For what it's worth some other social media analysts don't spend as much time in the conversation reading and contributing as I do, and are arguably far more successful than I am. Louis is on a tear, I should hire him ;)
- Jeremiah Owyang
“Checking out FriendFeed and note that "A-listers" have a ton of activity; everyone else, not so much. Wonder if that's why A-listers dig it?” - http://friendfeed.com/e...
Mack Collier liked this
I continue to wonder about this!
- Todd Defren
This is why I see Friendfeed struggling to appeal past early adopters. Twitter is very quick and easy to use, but unless you and all your friends are actively sharing content on 20 diff social sites, why would you need an aggregator like FF?
- Mack Collier
IMO FriendFeed is a lot less fun. I could see a bunch of my mates enjoying Twitter... this only geeks I know. In saying that, personally I derive value from FF.
- Paull Young
InfoWorld stopped publishing offline editions. Revenues up 10% and profit went from -3 to 37%. LOVE those Internets. http://tinyurl.com/ ...
Robert Scoble liked this
http://stuartbruce.typepad.com/a_pr_gu... is the link.
- Robert Scoble
Thanks, Robert!
- Todd Defren
BzzAgent campaign for PNI generating great buzz and sales ... Amazon shows just one copy left!
Congratulations!!!
- Nick O'Neill
Will you be providing more thorough campaign analysis on your blog?
- Todd Defren
I just picked up my copy today at Powell's!
- Carolina Velis
How Brands Will Use FriendFeed - http://www.web-strategist.com/blog...
Jeremiah Owyang proclaims FriendFeed to be the true evolution of the SMR. He makes some fascinating points; I don't disagree in theory, but in practice it gets sticky.
How Brands Will Use FriendFeed - http://www.web-strategist.com/blog...
Jeremiah Owyang proclaims FriendFeed to be the true evolution of the SMR. He makes some fascinating points; I don't disagree in theory, but in practice it gets sticky.
- Todd Defren
How Brands Will Use FriendFeed - http://www.web-strategist.com/blog...
Jeremiah Owyang proclaims FriendFeed to be the true evolution of the SMR. He makes some fascinating points; I don't disagree in theory, but in practice it gets sticky.
- Todd Defren
A Radical Suggestion for the Social Media Release - http://www.pr-squared.com/2008...
Put out a well-written “traditional” release over the wires, with a built-in link to the “social media version” at the company’s online newsroom...Bypass the wire services’ outsized fees without giving up on their distribution platform.
- Todd Defren
A Radical Suggestion for the Social Media Release - http://www.pr-squared.com/2008...
Put out a well-written “traditional” release over the wires, with a built-in link to the “social media version” at the company’s online newsroom...Bypass the wire services’ outsized fees without giving up on their distribution platform.
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