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Steve Gillmor to Steve's feed, RealTime Network

Gillmor Gang, Live Recording Session at 11:00AM PT. Participate at http://www.building43.com/realtim...

May 28, 2010 - Comment - Like - Share

Sean Kelly, Marcus Schroefel, Wayne Sutton and 7 other people liked this

I'm standing by waiting for the usual call. - Robert Scoble

134 more comments

Cool! - Stephen Pickering

Hey Scoble, it's not that Paul. - Cliff Gerrish

Oh, crap. It's Paul Carr then? - Robert Scoble

Which Paul will it be.... - Chris Aldrich

It's a mystery Paul, you'll need to tune in to see. - Cliff Gerrish

McCartney? :-)))) - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: now THAT would be a show! - Robert Scoble

Heheheheh - Stephen Pickering

We will be starting shortly. - Robert Scoble

http://twitter.com/brianstorms is our special guest. Brian Dear. - Robert Scoble

Gillmor Gang recording session live with Brian Dear, Paul Carr, Kevin Marks & Scoble- http://building43.com/realtime - Cliff Gerrish

Ahhh, cool, thanks for the link - Stephen Pickering

The Plato birthday party will be at the Computer History Museum: http://www.computerhistory.org/events... - Cliff Gerrish

They did a great job - Stephen Pickering

hmmm. Friendfeed isn't letting me post. trying from a different place. - Karoli

Karoli: that worked. - Robert Scoble

Karoli, I'm seeing your post saying you aren't able to post. - Cliff Gerrish

This is a classic battle of who has the most leverage. Happens in every industry - Stephen Pickering

It's sort of like when Apple got rid of the disk drive. - Cliff Gerrish

Bah. Buy the 3G. The iPad's all about convenience. - Ken Sheppardson

yes, posting from the NGL beta window works. - Karoli

Re: iPad - interesting post by Fred Wilson changing his opinion about the iPad: http://www.avc.com/a_vc... - Mike Doeff

the Evo has lasted me for 2 days without plugging in - David Robit Chen

It's really a format question... why isn't there more cross interaction between my three screens: television, computer, and phone/mobile device? - Chris Aldrich

We're going to buy the 3G. It makes sense to have one that goes on the road. - Karoli

I'm really annoyed that I pay AT&T $120/mo and not tethering - Stephen Pickering

Chris, the smaller screens need to control the bigger screens. - Cliff Gerrish

And I can't hear my phone calls - Stephen Pickering

Task killer? Now that just reminds me horribly of my days prior to iPhone, aka when I suffered with Windows Mobile. - Nick Wade

I think it's the other way around, the big screens need to allow the smaller screens in for interaction. - Chris Aldrich

3G is the fill in network. Filling in the cracks between wifi signals. - Cliff Gerrish

Karoli: Do it. I messed with a tethered WiFi for a bit, then got a 3G... 3G rulez. Not having to worry about another device is worth it. - Ken Sheppardson

I got the 3G iPad last week. I haven't activated it yet but I like knowing it's there. - Mike Doeff

Yeah, but why won't AT&T let me get the 3G off my iPhone for my iPad? - Stephen Pickering

Berkeley/Oakland, no iPad sighting for me yet - Da

I can't see paying an extra $30 a month for signal if you already have an iPhone. Spend the 20 seconds it takes to run Spirit on the iPhone, then install MyWi, and voila. Easy WiFi Tethering for your cheaper iPad. - Otto

But then Apple doesn't make as much Brian if they don't tether you to the iTunes store.... That's the real tethering issue. - Chris Aldrich

I think we'll see iPad sync via wifi fairly soon. That's what the Lala.com acquisition was about. - Cliff Gerrish

And now Google has a UI Expert! - Stephen Pickering

Yep. Just like my Palm Pre. Apple could do it if they wanted to. It's not unique to Android. - Ken Sheppardson

Seems like Google eats UI experts alive. - Cliff Gerrish

And open source advocates, and startups... - Ken Sheppardson

Brian Dear has Androids new slogan: 'A phone that a sysadmin would love...' - Cliff Gerrish

Kind of like the Hollywood mantra... Porn directors drive old cheap Corollas so they can save money for liquor and drugs. - Chris Aldrich

Brian makes a good point. The iTunes synch makes the whole iPad experience too complex for novice users. - Mike Doeff

Buying a computer at Target or Walmart is a different experience - Da

The problem with that argument is that there aren't 11 fake versions of me on Facebook. - Chris Aldrich

Yes, but there may be more than one Chris Aldrich - Stephen Pickering

If you want to be found, yes, you make things public. That shouldn't be his call. - Ken Sheppardson

Who's call should it be? - Cliff Gerrish

there are over 10k versions of me on Facebook :) - until you start narrowing in on my nicknames - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

What about the issue Leo has about that Facebook is making a "grab" to control the web? - Stephen Pickering

Didn't we have this same convo last week? And the week before? And the week before that? - Ken Sheppardson

Facebook has 500 million co-conspirators in its 'grab' for the web - Cliff Gerrish

I've argued that you should have two separate pages, one public facing the other totally private - Stephen Pickering

I'm having trouble understanding how Facebook opening up more is a grab for the web. The more public it is, the easier to scrape & repurpose. - Ian McGee

sounds like Facebook is trying to make the same change that sites like Geocities tried - the move from hobby/personal to hobby/personal/business - bear (aka Mike Taylor)

But even my flower shop should be able to post up drunken photos and have privacy settings to prevent all of my Mormon customers from seeing them. - Chris Aldrich

I think Leo is talking about the "Like" implementation - Stephen Pickering

So what do we do when the bad starts to creep up? When the porn sites, smashers, hackers and unethical users begin to leverage this power and blame it on Facebook? - Jeff Madlock

calling us dumb isn't really great for getting us to listen. do you think we're not aware they sell data? - Karoli

Banking and Airlines operate in a very strict regulatory regime. Europe has started that regime. - Cliff Gerrish

Adding a like button is opt in. - Cliff Gerrish

I like the "like" button myself but I'm just re iterating Leo's argument. What happens when you like something? Do the users know their data is being collected and funneled through third parties when they "like" something? - Stephen Pickering

With Facebook and privacy, one can use the cigarette analogy: doing it is bad for you in the long term, but a smoke today feels pretty good. The giving away of privacy today may not have consequences until it kills us 50 years from now. - Chris Aldrich

Great analogy Chris, I heard someone else make that argument earlier this week. Can't remember who. - Stephen Pickering

Chris, depending how old you are -- that's not a problem. - Cliff Gerrish

The "like button" will be an incredible tool for cultural anthropologists at least... - Chris Aldrich

perpetual beta - Da

Jay Rosen said Zuck's WP Editorial was "a bunch of crap" - Stephen Pickering

I love the expectation of public roadmaps now. Can't think of anyone doing it 5-10 years ago, but it's incredibly useful. Little hard to mesh with constant iteration though. - Ian McGee

I'm starting to feel like a rat who gets a treat for clicking on ads... Who is it that's doing the research on us? - Chris Aldrich

Yes, but he build his network on privacy and then pulled the rug - Stephen Pickering

I don't know why anyone is surprised by this. Free stuff has a price. - Karoli

Tungle.me rocks - Ian McGee

Yes, Karoli, but TV and Radio don't share are data surreptiously - Stephen Pickering

just be selective with what you put on the internet - Da

Stephen, TV and Radio made assumptions, reached a small fraction of who they could reach. I like seeing ads that I might be interested in. - Karoli

Somebody needs to have a long talk with Robert about self-selection. People who don't want their calendars public don't sign up for public calendar services. The fact that those who do make their calendar's public doesn't speak to what "we" want. - Ken Sheppardson

Now I do agree that Flippy or whatever it is, is silly. No way would I do that. - Karoli

Oh sure, Karoli, I'm all in favor of the Google model - Stephen Pickering

Public signaling is playing with masks. It doesn't represent a true state of affairs. - Cliff Gerrish

Yeah, I heard you laughing Scoble! - Stephen Pickering

@stevegillmor can you skype me in now? calliflower won't let me rejoin - Kevin Marks

Kevin, stand by. - Cliff Gerrish

Anyone else lose audio? - thestaticfrost

re:Blippy - isn't it interesting that Orwell et al.'s visions are coming true, only it's in the guise of cute/whimsical Web 2.0 names and Facebook games about sheep... - Alex Schleber

NM, had to reload. - thestaticfrost

Yahoo is an online media company? - Da

Fixing culture in a company that big is a huge problem. - Chris Aldrich

They've got Flickr and Finance. Does anyone use anything else there? - Stephen Pickering

Delicious. - Cliff Gerrish

Yahoo news - Da

Way too many people are still using their email client... - Chris Aldrich

I consider Facebook the new AOL - Karoli

no facebook is not the new yahoo - Wayne Sutton

But far more people spend far more time on Facebook than Yahoo... - Ian McGee

Yahoo Buzz gets large volumes of traffic too... I'm not sure why though. - Chris Aldrich

People spend 7hours a month on Facebook, no other site is even close, the problem is they can't monetize it and that's why they haven't gone public and had to take DST's money - Stephen Pickering

Facebook doesn't have a mobile OS - Da

BTW, for me UStream is constantly re-caching when I have the browser tab in focus (my connection is plenty fast); works OK as just audio in the background. - Alex Schleber

Why doesn't Yahoo build a great social network? Did you see that POS they tried a few years back? Build one that's cool and works and does everything FB does - Stephen Pickering

Will Yahoo buy a location-based platform? - Wayne Sutton

yahoo answer to get homework answered is great - Da

Sooner or later the individual user will have the tools to control and maintain their own infrastructure on the web and will link out into the world instead of relying on FB and other social media sites. - Chris Aldrich

Facebook NewsFeed is getting meatier iwth all the new-media news groups I've been adding to my stream -- TechCrunch, VentureBeat, etc. plus a bunch of affiliation groups. I'm finding more stories there and on Twittertim.es lately.. - Ian McGee

Chris, totally agreed, everyday there are new tools for "average" users to build there own sites with advanced features. Scoble interviewed Buzzr which is a usability layer on top of Drupal - Stephen Pickering

I was just watching that Buzzr interview just before this started. It's definitely a good start... - Chris Aldrich

All this talk about user built apps makes me miss hypercard... - Cliff Gerrish

Yeah, that kind of thing I believe could disrupt a Facebook in the next 5-10 years, maybe less - Stephen Pickering

I mean Drupal just rocks, but its so hard, give the average person that kind of power easily, and I feel something new developing - Stephen Pickering

The central social index gives facebook an advantage over distributed systems. - Cliff Gerrish

HyperCard is locked in Steve Jobs's basement; thats the trouble with building on one company's code - Kevin Marks

I love the potential of projects like Webfinger to be one of the enabling strategies for all of this. - Chris Aldrich

Hypercard turned into javascript and then jquery... - Cliff Gerrish

The only reason Facebook is important is because we have a dearth of connectivity. When everyone has a fiber connection a totally new peer to peer type of revolution will happen, I believe, decentralized, with the intelligence at the edges of the network - Stephen Pickering

We will each be our own facebook page, connected to each other with the same or even better features - Stephen Pickering

there is an architectural imperative because of NAT against distributed clients; My hope is that IPv6 will change this again - Kevin Marks

I also think FB has removed a lot of the "force" behind someone's desire to build their own page. They're effectively already doing it with FB, so something new has to have real benefits. - Ian McGee

Ian, it will - Stephen Pickering

It has to do with easy usability layers on top of real power, just as OSX is a usability layer on top of Unix - Stephen Pickering

And when that finally appears. we'll all be glad so much of the social graph is open for us to leverage. - Ian McGee

Just as computing became decentralized, so will social networking - Stephen Pickering

Ian, Right! - Stephen Pickering

as time goes on, are non-tech people gonna be reluctant to develop iPhone apps because they have to submit it for approval from Apple? - Da

FYI: http://www.platohistory.org/confere... - Chris Aldrich

Da, Yes - Stephen Pickering

Great show. - Mike Doeff

Da, that's already going on. Many developers are taking a close look at Android to replace; just takes more Android units out there to make it clear. - Ian McGee

And most of all, THANK YOU Steve for always putting these together! - Chris Aldrich

thanks to all of you. good show. :) - Karoli

Thanks, Steve and Gang - Stephen Pickering

Good stuff. - Ian McGee

Nice show - thanks much everyone! - Rob La Gesse

Thanks Rob! - Stephen Pickering

Robert Scoble

I am actually VERY excited about FriendFeed going to Facebook. This is a HUGE win for both companies! More later.

August 10, 2009 from iPhone - Comment - Like - Share

Eric Standlee, Rene Silva, Hüseyin Erkmen and 67 other people liked this

+1 (without the more later ;) - Orli Yakuel

66 more comments

Big news. - phil baumann

With any luck FB will rework the UI to make it more friendly and it can gain some market - James

Absolutely. Great deal all around. Congrats to everyone involved. - Tom Guarriello

If Facebook uses the FriendFeed interface, then I would agree it is a great idea. - Rob Diana

I'm hoping for better, faster feature development. - Jeff Harbert

yes, definitely win-win - Wolfgang Heinrich

huge win for both companies ?? is it a win for the FF community ?? who comes first ?? the business or the users ?? I bet you within 6 months, I wont be using FF as much as I use it now !! - Peter Dawson

i agree - facebook has been getting on my good list this past year and I just love friendfeed. - Chris Jackson

Just as I re-dedicate myself to using FF, FB acquires them. If FB can integrate FF's deep feature set, it would be a win-win-win. - Jim Duncan

True or false: Facebook needs FriendFeed more than FriendFeed needs Facebook. - Joel Zehring

I'm excited too, but at the same time I'm afraid facebook may make some wrong moves with their acquisition. We've seen this happen before. - Steven (optionshiftk)

this is not a good day for Twitter.... - Giorgio

I fully expect to just see FriendFeed as a separate entity to go away with its technology being absorbed by Facebook. - Mike Flynn

Very True. - Steven (optionshiftk)

Joel: Absolutely true. - Adam Reyher

I caught Robert's reaction to the news on my iPhone: http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Robert J Taylor from iPhone

If this makes it so I have one LESS place to go to follow my social media, then it will be great. I already have too many different places with different people and different conversations for differ purposes that overlap and make it unnecessarily complicated. - David Rondeau

FF > FB? not great, actually. diversity is better than monopoly. and i'm concerned about aggregation features getting deprecated (in the name of progress and chrossing the chasm and all that jazz.. of course ;) - jacek

This is a IP, technology and talent grab.. I don't see the 2 sites being consolidated - Dave Senior

It may be a big win for both companies but is likely a big lose for FF users. - Brian Sullivan

FriendFeed functionality on Facebook would be nice. The reverse, not so much. They're trying to address two entirely separate purposes and as such, need to remain completely separate. - Adam Reyher

I hope Facebook turns into FriendFeed. That would be great! - Wo

I'd really love to see the real-time threaded conversation feature of friendfeed be adopted by facebook. - Steven (optionshiftk)

Looking forward to your analysis Robert - Ken Seto

I can see development of FF slowing down as the team brings the tech over to Facebook - Dave Senior

Indeed, Brian. FF devotees should be pissed over this. I can't believe Facebook will do anything but carve out a few choice pieces of FF meat - likely making them even more Twitterish - and dump the rest. FF will be gone within six months. - Shéa Bennett

This is a huge win for both companies, and a huge fail for every net surfer. - TiTi

yeah it may not be that bad. maybe i'm exaggerating. - Edgar Rodríguez

Well, I think the FF team can certainly help the Facebook UI. But, all I take away from this is FF going away. - Yolanda

One thing to consider is this: If we have "trusted" the FriendFeed people not to screw things up, hopefully we can trust them to make sure they're still in control in the terms of the acquisition. - Adam Reyher

Yes, Robert. Like TiTi said, huge win for both companies, huge fail for the people who like FriendFeed. "Welcome to FaceFeed! Would you like to take a quiz?" - Zach Flauaus

I think this is definitely a huge win for both but maybe not for the users. I think it could be good or bad for users but I hope that Facebook will allow FriendFeed to continue and push the envelope with emerging technologies. I imagine this is Facebook and FriendFeed teaming up against Twitter. - Brandon Titus

.-( Good for Friendfeed, but horrible for people that like friendfeed and hate facebook &their UI or where FB is blocked - Del_

may be - Ahmet Soyata

It's good timing. FF uniques fell almost 10% in July. - Shéa Bennett

Absolutely, Robert. Its a very good tech acquisition for Facebook, they get a great team with a well developed technology stack. It lets the FriendFeed founders get a good, early exit. - DGentry

I hope so. I know my initial reaction was not as negative as most of the others I'm seeing in my stream. Maybe I'm just being naive. - Herb Hernandez

Hopefully this means the power of friendfeed will be utilized. Awesome news - Marcus

This is why I follow Mr. Scoble, yes that is Mr. Scoble :) always has his fingers in the breaking news. - dennis podgorski

I have a hard time drawing my line of Public v Personal. I use Twitter & FriendFeed for public use and I use Facebook for private use. I have not even once made a status update on Facebook. I am not sure I want FriendFeed on Facebook. I am intrigued about the possibilities of integration but I am not sure I will adopt. - thestaticfrost

The power of FF will be used -- but it won't be pretty and won't be for good. - Brian Sullivan

I have to agree with Robert on this. I think this is likely to be a great deal moving forward. I'm excited about it, and happy for the FriendFeed crew. They've done an AWESOME job. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

I am not as excited about this. I don^t like Facebook as much - nchenga

i think this is going to add more value to Facebook - Lee Kent

concur robert - mike "glemak" dunn

It certainly makes sense, and I agree that it adds value to FF. I wonder how many of the 250 million users of FF will be using it in its current form. - courtney benson

Just surprised this didn't happen earlier. Facebook has been mimicking FriendFeed's functionality for a while now. Nice that FF is finally getting paid for their R&D efforts. - Aaron Strout

I think this will make me drop friendfeed or facebook - Nicolai Rygh

Please explain - this may be win for Friendfeed - but as far as us the users/fans... we're the big losers in this right? I really really can't stand Facebook :-( Help us have hope... - Jannifer @wordsforliving

ruination. - Hieronymous Boosh

I will wait and see approach @ all - polou/indigo_bow

here is the explanation, FF have t sell the soonerr, better then laterr, they choose the right momment, wave is there and it is a big promise - abdellah

when Google start wave, they surely shown their non desire to acquir FF it was implicite - abdellah

I'm hoping for the best. - Jim Connolly

The idea here is growing on me. I see the business case...I'm still not sure as to the impact on Twitter and different users who prefer one tool over another and/or use the two differently. - Derek Shanahan

I'm trying to defer my pessimism...but I feel an "I Want Sandy"-type fail in the wings. As for FF needing to sell, that wasn't the case; the founders had the money to keep it going for as long as they wanted, basically. We'll see, I suppose. We'll see. - Ken Kennedy

This is really interesting. This will bring a bigger pool of social media services to people. As it is now, regular folks don't venture further than Facebook, with this acquisition, many will realize that there is a plethora of great other services and social media websites that they can engage in. - Rami Taibah

Ya know when you get a bad feeling about something - I have one about this deal. Can't put my finger on it, but it don't feel right. - Jim Connolly

FriendFeed now to get BIGGER than Twitter? - Jim Connolly

"when Google start wave, they surely shown their non desire to acquir FF it was implicite" - I think that probably covers it. - John Craft

Isn't this the kind of daring move that Yahoo should have made? - Andrew Warner

Seems like a HUGE win for Facebook. Not so sure for the future of FF, though. - Chris Wood

is there a dislike button anywhere? I did exactly the opposite FB never appealed, FF rocked... - Valeria Maltoni

FriendFeed will not be the same place, in terms of the community, but this keeps friendfeed around for a while. Awesome! Where's Arrington? Did he reopen his account? - Benjamin Taylor

FF isn't blocked at work, FB is. FF usefulness would nose-dive for me if blocked. - Brett Veenstra

Brett: this is likely to pave the way for more client applications for Facebook, which will not be blocked at work. - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

Robert Scoble

Google now is indexing things from the real time web in SECONDS. Google is going real time. Proof:

August 9, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Darren, Mike Chelen, Jorge and 82 other people liked this

http://www.google.com/search... this item appeared very quickly (even now it's only 13 minutes old). - Robert Scoble

41 more comments

Funny how one FF post lead to another even bigger one. - Manuel Mas

Wow! incredible! - ★ Soner Gönül

I'm totally ReTweeting this...wait...no need, Google already has the scoop! ^_^v - CannonGod

"real-time". Are you saying they're indexing information delivered in real-time? e.g. long polling, comet-ish or xmpp? Or just that they're polling more often and making results available sooner? - Darren

I can't wait for google wave. Robert, can you get me an invite? - Craig Shipp

Craig, trust me, you'll change your tune once you've used it. :) - Darren

It won't going to make Google real time. - Madhav Tripathi

i rekon google have a special feed from ff, ff pushing to google, otherwise it will create a lot of useless load to see what has changed - isn't that what google was trying to do with twitter? - simran

Darren: I have no idea. I just know that Google used to take weeks to get items into its index and now is getting them there in seconds. Anyone know how they are doing this, or are they just indexing FriendFeed very quickly? - Robert Scoble

is it pubsubhubhub?!! - abdellah

Craig: I don't have a Wave invite yet. - Robert Scoble

yesterday, I post a blog. And Google show that 4 minutes ago - kang

Abdellah: Was about to say that. - Manuel Mas

I think...Google is real-time index Twitter and FriendFeed - kang

this is crazy how friendfeed is evolving, the realtime discussion here is awesome! - Adam Benayoun

we have juste to rememeber what Greader do this week ! and remember that FF implemented simple update protocol - abdellah

Google-Wave can be used as another google notebook - kang

No. Way. Craziness! - LisaDJenkins

I think google is losing its focus on traditional search which will make it less important. - Madhav Tripathi

i can't see this share in Google... - Zee.

This is what i see when i search for this: http://stash.zee.me/Picture... - Zee.

Zee: I took a slightly more direct route with my keywords ~ http://www.google.co.uk/search... ...I still think you're right, the title should be enough to find the post. - CannonGod

If they are doing something in the real-time space it would certainly be exciting. I like having Bing around. Hopefully it'll continue to spark competition around small, innovative features in an effort to out "cool" the other. - Darren

Wow, they're really gunning after Bing's psuedo social-media search. This can only be good for the future of search...hopefully! - Steve Farnworth

This post is now in Google: http://www.google.com/search... - Robert Scoble

Wade: Hurrah! This is great news for companies who want to get indexed through keeping an active blog/community through FriendFeed. Fuck buying AdSense keywords :] - CannonGod

hope no, hope that sneaky marketers will not try to screw the system and they can't do, hope that (BTW let make the supposition that FF index is integrated in Google hmm Google buying FF?!!) - abdellah

Abdellah: Absolutely - let's all vote: Google should only index posts with a threshold of comments/likes. That's an easy way to stem the spammers who set & forget their FriendFeed with a gazillion RSS feeds to all their spam sites... - CannonGod

it's not real time! it's highly related with the links through that thread about Kevin Fox. Since Scoble is being followed by thousands of people, the link of the thread is revealed by googlebot very quickly and in a very short time google sees hundreds of links to this thread so it's directly indexed in google's search results. a few thousand internal link is enough for get a url indexed in such a short time. - Eren Baydemir

It's not indexing Twitter in real time that's for sure. I just "Googled" some of my recent tweets to no avail. - JP Holecka - Jaypiddy

Holden: my posts continually show up within minutes. I've been testing this for a while. But I've also been watching others on FriendFeed and they show up slower, so you're right. Plus my FriendFeed URL has better Google Juice so mine show up higher than others do (I have more inbound links to my account and more links from people with a high amount of Google Juice). - Robert Scoble

I guess we just figured out why Google sees value in hosting a PubSubHubBub hub! Tim Bray was asking about this yesterday, but the real value is being able to know when anyone updates their content and feeding that directly into the indexers. - Eric Florenzano

gotta watch what you write on here now since it's getting to be indexed faster. - Seth Goldstein

Google continues to amaze us - Kent Courtney

Kent Courtney is now in the mix. friendfeed has made the big time! - Craig Shipp

I have seen this on a few sites, namely donationcoder.com and my own blog. At donationcoder, someone will post a question on the forum, I get the popup notification less than 15 seconds later (I am a moderator there and have special tools to make job easier), then I'll do a quick google search for answer and find the forum post on page 1 already. I have google alerts set up for anything mentioning my blog and I usually get an email less than 3 minutes after I make a post, linking to the post I just made. - April Russo

For me, Google's ability to quickly index comments on Friendfeed seems more interesting than yet another index of Tweets like twitturly - thestaticfrost

My partner James just noticed this afternoon that thirty seconds after Stumbling a blog entry, Google updated. Very cool. - Kisha from BuddyFeed

Nice. Nice. Nice. - Mitchell Tsai

Google has definitely changed something because both my friendfeed entries and Posterous entries gets indexed really fast! - Svartling

the downside: you find an unfamiliar word in a post, google for it, and — tada! — come up with that very post at the top of the result page. sorta makes the 'I'm feeling lucky' button less useful :) - 9000 from IM

When it comes to really fast indexing of "normal" blog posts I think it's the PubSubHubbub integration in Feedburner that Google uses for indexing really fast. I noticed that with my blogs using feedburner. Really cool. - Svartling

Robert Scoble

You can say anything you want to UCLA MBA class who are studying sports marketing and other things. Say it on FriendFeed in real time:

July 30, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

michael sean wright, Louis Gray, Dan Hsiao and 11 other people liked this

You're on the screen, so behave! :-) - Robert Scoble

36 more comments

Read Seth Godin, but don't worship him. - James Watters

Good luck for your future and try to create a lot of new jobs.. - Amit Nangare

Marketing is a process of embedding your ideas in the larger meta memory of the world, it takes steps and time. - James Watters

kidding....do as scoble says....but dont do what scoble does - patrick

USC MBA program is waaaay better. :) - Vinny

Should I know who/what UCLA MBA is...? (I'm from the UK so don't shout at me if it's a very well known American institute :) ) - Roy Herrod

Everybody shake hands with the person to your right! - Will Thompson

Cricket is the future - play it, market it - read Netherland to see why it's a true American sport - Aaman (Clone of FF)

Don't forget to keep learning - find your teachers all over the world (Robert is one of the best)! - Karen Jackie

Greetings from Cairo, Egypt...we don't have what you guys are studying over there "sucks!" hope y'all are having a great day! - Ahmed

Please explore, debunk, improve upon these concepts: http://capitalismplusplus.blogspot.com/ and http://apprehendingpostscarcity.blogspot.com/ The future is counting on YOU. - michael silverton

UCLA MBAs: I want to say one word to you. Just one word: Plastics. ;) - Otto

EVERYONE IN THE CLASSROOM GET NAKED!!!!!!!!!"come on just like Robert once did - Jadito

Give Scoble a hug. (That behaved enough? :D ) - Jonathan Hardesty from Android

Wow, so many "thoughtful" comments. Um, NOT. Anyway, here's my question to this class: What's the next step in terms of creating a community around the local sports team? Take the Washington Nationals for example. How do you tackle that marketing problem? - Emilie Cole

yo - Kushagra

Hello Hello! Hey no talking, thats right you in the back. - Manuel Arroyo

I am sure many of the you would be amazed to see these many updates in real time. This is Scobleizer effect :) - Saurabh Sahni

Getting your MBA is like getting handed the keys to the car and not knowing how to drive. In a field like sports marketing where there is little precedent to be studied, you will do most of your learning out in the work place. Good luck, and if all else fails, just talk about Brett Favre some more. - Will Thompson

All the very best for your future endeavours! Get into some serious entrepreneurship & kick some a$$ :) - Sandeep Swaminathan

We like your kind here where I work. MBA students = Fresh braiiiiiiiiiins... - Hookuh Tinypants

How many of you are on Friendfeed, Twitter, and that facebook thingy? - Aaman (Clone of FF)

I'm a UCLA alum, back from the days when we rode a horse/buggy to get to games at Pauley Pavilion. My claim to fame: Jogged around the track with John Wooden. - Irene Koehler

Hi class! Take good notes and listen to Alex. - Mark Layton

Please remember me when you get bored doing all that hard work out on the golf courses and feel free to fill the void by sending me event tickets in the Midwest, kthxbye. - thestaticfrost

Sports Marketing=AlmaMatters.org - Ryan Erisman

check out www.djpzb.com - Josh Brooks

Hi Students. Does it bother you that Robert Scoble has once again completely neglected his wife and kids to be with you today? - jasonte3a

Thank you, this was really great. I think we got a few people to join us on FriendFeed, cool students, too. - Robert Scoble

jasonte3a: I am blocking you, but before I do, you should know that my son is with me here in Los Angeles and listened to the presentation today. - Robert Scoble

This was pretty cool! What was the general reaction of the class to FriendFeed? - Hookuh Tinypants

OK, I now know not to follow Vinny or Peter;) Greetings Irene & Grant, go Bruins! Friendfeed rocks! - Rick Bucich

start praying.... - Bob DeMarco

Very strong. Most of the class is on Twitter and tons signed up during the class. I hope they say hi! - Robert Scoble from iPhone

Come over here into FriendFeed land! - wiredgnome

Good luck in the future :-) - wiredgnome

Stop staring and start interacting - Jim Goldstein

Robert Scoble

I'm now convinced because of this http://www.pcworld.com/article... that PC World really doesn't know what it's talking about. More:

July 27, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Bill Sodeman, linearthoughts, Chris Greene and 35 other people liked this

1. A Tablet does not need to lie flat. - Robert Scoble

72 more comments

2. An Apple Tablet would find a HUGE market just waiting. Our coffee tables. - Robert Scoble

3. There are a huge number of people who will buy ANYTHING Apple puts its name on. Well, OK, Apple TV proved that isn't quite true. - Robert Scoble

4. If hosting a virtual keyboard takes too much real estate on a 10 inch display, I guess they didn't see the iPhone. - Robert Scoble

and if only there were molds that could make these things fit us perfectly, like a blackberry hand mold, would rock the available accessories.... - Liza + = ?

5. I used to own a tablet, made by NEC. It was my favorite computer. Bill Gates bought 400 of them to give to his closest friends, too. It was really awesome, nice and thin, easy to carry around. - Robert Scoble

6. I guess he didn't see that the Amazon Kindle is pretty close to a tablet and works fine. - Robert Scoble

7. I want a computer I want watch TV with and interact with while watching TV. A Tablet is BETTER than a laptop in that mode. - Robert Scoble

Urban legend is that the NO buttons were a decision that was so important that he does not wear buttons - mock turtle...But surely his jeans have a button, and his car, and other items.... - Liza + = ?

8. Artists actually don't like Tablet PCs. Why? Not enough screen realestate. He's right there, but for the wrong reasons. - Robert Scoble

9. Note taking in class? I dare you to copy a chemical molecule in text on a keyboard, or write an advanced mathematical formula without a pen. Of course, if this writer really wanted to make a good point, just use pencil and paper and take a picture of that with your iPhone. - Robert Scoble

good points, Robert. Form factor and software functions / features are related, but can can really take products in different directions. - Lora Heiny

(Disclosure: Lora works on Microsoft's Tablet PC team). - Robert Scoble

Their definition of "tablet" is way too restrictive. A Kindle IS a tablet. A tablet, in my opinion, simply means a computing device with the capacity for input while in a two-dimensional format. - Trent Hamm

My HP-TX2 is the best computer I've ever owned. Evernote on this baby is what's getting me through my Linear Algebra class this semester. Also, Civilization 4 is awesome in tablet mode. - Scott Ohlemacher

robert - apple tv kicks arse, provided you install boxee on it. - Terry O'Fee

Terry: I totally agree. - Robert Scoble

My thought: lets see this thing before we criticize it. It's an Apple tablet after all. I know a certain phone that was criticized for being a me-too phone as well. - Ryan Massie

Agree except for a few things. For 7, it's still easier to have a laptop form factor sitting in your lap instead of having to hold it with a slate. For 9, Sorry but people won't be inking notes in class with their finger on a capacitive touch screen. What's missing is the active tablet and ink/character recognition that doesn't take up a lot of resources. - Rodfather

Ryan: all good products have haters. - Robert Scoble

Rodfather: absolutely disagree. Reading or getting comfortable on a couch is much easier with a Tablet. Oh, and let's not forget sitting in coach seats in planes!!! - Robert Scoble

I kind of ripped into him on mashable: http://mashable.com/2009... - Ben Parr

i still really wish they'd make a 10 inch MB, though. they must know a smaller version would sell well, regardless of price.. - Terry O'Fee

Ben: I missed that totally but glad great minds think alike. - Robert Scoble

(Update: Last fiscal year I worked on an education project and some tangential things, like the Tablet Accessibility Imagine Cup award. Still find Touch & Tablet PC future concepts really intriguing. On to new things in the next few weeks :) ) - Lora Heiny

Looks like someone's trying to fill Dvoraks hater pants. - Joshua Schnell

It's probably because Mashable tweets are getting lost in the cloud. Twitter's experiencing a slowdown. - Ben Parr

Robert, whatever floats your boat. For me, it gets tiring and hot having to hold a slate all the time. I like having my hands free. - Rodfather

Rodfather: keep in mind that I own three laptops and my wife owns one and my son owns one. So this would be IN ADDITION to a laptop, not as a replacement for. - Robert Scoble

I suspect the iTablet is actually going to be much like the HP TX2, likely running OS X with some mobile features (like note taking / a program like One Note) and the capacity to read books from the iTunes store - or possibly functioning as a Kindle. - Trent Hamm

Yes, that's fine. I'm just pointing out it's easier for me to couch surf with a laptop form factor. If both are actually released, I'll be grabbing both but who knows what their use will be for. - Rodfather

I see the potential in a virtual keyboard that has been missed up to this point by everyone. Allow the users to program the "keys" with shortcuts and such. Then the real estate being "lost" to the kb suddenly becomes productive and valuable. Other points were generally spot on, Robert except #1- whether it has to or not- other than flat how else is a tablet going to lay? Little pop-out legs? - Alyx

Rodfather & Robert: one big issue you're pointing out is definition that media is using vs common use of words we're used to, ex. tablet, slate. These are form factor biased. iPod Touch, iPhone, Kindle -- all very successful slates. Specialty PCs with multitouch, handwriting, etc. like the HP TouchSmart PC or a Motion Computing slate are similar form factors and very different in size.... more... - Lora Heiny

I doubt this Tablet will have any inking capabilities at all and it won't matter. It's all about consuming not creating with the possible exception of video/audio/etc.... - Warner Crocker

And the PCWorld article was just trash. - Warner Crocker

I think an Apple tablet would be kinda neat, and watching movies on a tablet can be ok, but not always as nice as a regular laptop or even netbook (depends on how you're sitting/laying). I think though that not having a full-fledged OS X running on it will severely limit its potential... - Jan Ole Peek

Yes, the article was crap - Rodfather

I wonder what the hardware will be .. will it run photoshop? if so there's a winner - Dylan Richardson

Love point number 9 - Gustavo Gomez

Dylan, Photoshop on a 10" screen isn't that amazing. Plus the hardware would have to be faster than my Dell Mini 10v with 2gb of ram to do anything more than basic photoshop stuff. - Jan Ole Peek

I'm not so sure this thing will be a hit. Who's the audience for this device? Current Mac/iPhone users? They own a Mac and an iPhone now they're going to buy a tablet...for what reason? What can they do on the tablet they can't do on their Mac's? Handwriting recognition...unlikely, used as a video/music/TV player...possibly, but this can already be done without needing another device,... more... - Kenny

They also missed the point that Apple wouldn't want OSX on this. They like controlling the platform and limiting the available apps. The buzz for the Crunchpad is a pretty good indicator that a lot of people would like these, at least early adopters. The mass market may not 'get' it yet, but they're just now getting full use of the iPods and iPhones they bought in the last year. - Jon Adair

I would never bet against anything that Says "Apple". But actually http://itablet.com is promoting Vista Tablets... - Robert Higgins

PC World vastly overlooked the gaming market as well. As a hand-held device with a larger screen, I am sure developers are drooling at the opportunity of an entirely new market for games. Larger screens open one set of flood gates and clouds knock down the dam. I would wager very few of us can conceptualize the possibilities of such a market in 3 years. - thestaticfrost

I'm with Kenny. I don't see it, yet. Usually Apple goes into a market to completely dominate. I don't see it here.., yet. Which devices will it try to take over? Netbooks, GPS nav devices, media-players, ebook readers, portable gaming devices? Take on the vertical markets and replace all the tablets in hospitals with this? No clue. - Rodfather

thestaticfrost - Agreed, a gaming device has some potential. - Kenny

Rodfather: there is one place in your home that NO ONE dominates yet: your coffee table. Another? Your kitchen counter. Apple could make a neat market by going after JUST those two places. - Robert Scoble

Who's got room on the kitchen counter? - Eric - seven eleven

Robert, perhaps. I don't see Apple making a huge hit with that segment. They usually go in to dominate. We're talking about a 3rd or 4th device now after a laptop, netbook, and smartphone. For me, I don't spend that much time in the kitchen. I wouldn't buy a whole new device for the bathroom or to replace my clock radio either. - Rodfather

Rodfather: Apple rarely goes into dominate. They haven't dominated cell phones yet, gaining only a few percent of market share so far. But what they DO dominate is mindshare. Here Apple could very cleanly dominate in both places once again. You might not spend that much time in the kitchen, but a lot of people do. - Robert Scoble

C'mon Rodfather, you have to admit, an Apple Tablet, whatever it turns out to be would be a great Stall Surfing device. :) - Warner Crocker

I'll just say this, since wireless became ubiquitous, I take my laptop into the kitchen all the time. I store recipes on delicious or other websites, and I just pull them up, instead of printing them out and taping them to the cabinet door like I used to. The iMac is too big for our tiny kitchen, so I'd be all over an OS X tablet. - Ha3rvey #teamMonique

I'm sure it'll be fantastic and I would get one, and yes Warner, I would use it on the can. :) I just don't understand the market they are going for. From what I know now, I don't see it having the same impact as an iPhone, iPod Touch, or a MacBook. - Rodfather

Robert Higgins - after looking at your link for iTablet.com the kitchen is what came to my mind. Robert - It could have some cool uses there but I'm still not sure there is much of a market for this type of device. But having this type of device in the kitch could be kinda cool. Imagine it sitting there and using the touch screen to scroll on web sites, use it to hold recipes, integrate... more... - Kenny

Here's the real question I have about all of these new slates -- Can I get my typical right-click functionalities? And if so, how? Because I use the heck out of "Copy Link Location" and "Open in New Tab". - Miss Elle

Most tablets if they have a digitzer stylus pen will have a button on it to hold down for right-clicking. - Jan Ole Peek

Miss Elle - if it's a touch screen you would most likely just 2 finger tap for the right click functionality, just like you do know on Mac laptops - Kenny

I want a coffee table / kitchen counter tablet asap!! Must be simple and elegant as my iPhone; designed for web browsing. - Susan Beebe from BuddyFeed

Most likely, hold down to register a right-click. That's how it works for touchscreens on Windows Tablet ed, Vista, & 7. Holding down on a link/image in Safari on the iPhone also gives you a menu. - Rodfather

This article reminds me of Steve Ballmer laughing at the iPhone for not having a physical keyboard. - Dennis Chiuten

IF that device shipped tomorrow, and assuming for this discussion it's not a PoS, my only decision is how many rooms would have one on the wall this year and how many would I wait for the next revision. Why do people think laps & tables are to only two places this would be used? I want my first one on the wall in my bath/dressing room; so I can glance at it from the shower and while getting dressed to get the morning news, weather, stocks, Tweets, etc, etc, etc ... standing & walking around. - Don Strickland

The guy (Michael Scalisi) who wrote the article for PC World is an IT Manager from somewhere, he isn't clued in to how such a device would/could be used - just ignore it! - Geer

As someone else mentioned, just like the iPhone, I think there is no way to surmise what an Apple tablet will be - they probably won't call it a tablet. And most underestimate the marketing prowess of Apple. I can see an extension of the "we've got an app for that" ads already. - PXLated

An apple tablet with what sort of touch interface? If like iPhone, from an artist's point of view, not good. I like doing graphics/cartoons on digital devices, but windows mobile was always too small to draw really big illos with, though spot cartoons it wasn't bad. Would LOVE an Apple tablet I could use a stylus with. And yes, there's a huge market for one. You wouldn't have to squint or squeeze to read a whole news item. - George Hall (Australia)

Guess if I had a choice, though...if a crunchpad had the ability to do art/graphics with a stylus and an apple tablet didn't, I'd buy the crunchpad instead...though I'd still be eyeing the Apple tablet for a bit later... - George Hall (Australia)

I want my Newton 2100 back but with web capabilities and a color screen. - Mark Davidson from BuddyFeed

Apple's device is out there to destroy the netbook, the Kindle, and the legal pad. That's a pretty sweet target imo. - Trent Hamm

i still think they should make a small form macbook. the tablet will be interesting and maybe very good, but theres people out there who want some reliable small netbooks, laptops, whatever you want to call it. - Terry O'Fee

Have to say I don't get the whole idea of the ITablet/IFoleo. A netbook - Yes. For me this back to the days of one device for calling, one device for viewing, one device for typing. I am sure there would be a nitch for it like Robert watching TV on it, but It would hardly be the innovative design that Apple is known for. I can see it now, like a nightmare, People walking around in the streets with giant Iphones. Apple, please don't make my nightmare come true - Asgeir

By definition, a tablet does need to lie flat. But otherwise agreed. - xero

Xero: I disagree. A tablet needs to be able to be configured in some fashion to be flat, but it does not need to be flat, period. Take HP's excellent TX-2 - it's a tablet, clearly, but it's also got a keyboard and with a quick rotation, it serves as a laptop. - Trent Hamm

For the purposes of writing upon the tablet's screen, a tablet needs to be able to lie flat on a flat work surface such as a table or desk in order for it to actually be used like a tablet of paper, a notebook, a clipboard, which is what it is replacing. Just like any other laptop/notebook computer, it is ergonomically ignorant to assume it can lie in ones lap or cradled in ones arm for... more... - xero

O, Robert, say it isn't so?! What will I offer my guests for light water closet reading? :) - Melanie Reed

Geer: I'm totally with you on your comment about the author. Apparently, it's become really easy to write for PCWorld now. You don't need to know how to write, just be an in the tech biz at some level with some hair-brained story about a rumored product's future failure. Bizarre. - Paul Salzman

Robert Scoble

The hard choice: Apple Tablet or Crunchpad or both? Argue it out here:

July 26, 2009 from iPhone - Comment - Like - Share

John Sirman, Morton Fox, Jim Connolly and 18 other people liked this

Both. I am a tablet freak. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

80 more comments

Crunchpad. Apple will lock me down to Mac, itunes, etc. I am hoping crunchpad will be more open in terms of compatibility. - karthick

Crunchpad. I will not be locked out by Apple again! http://mdeslaur.blogspot.com/2009... Crunchpad is Linux based, which makes it a sweet deal tbh - Rami Taibah

But I bet the Crunchpad will be more affordable so I will buy more of that. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

Both. Apple's [ghost]Tablet for the amazing interface. Crunchpad because of overall awesomeness and it being a product of total love for the industry. - Sam Dodge

Apple Tablet. They come with Jobs' Reality Distortion Field. - Phil Earnhardt

Windows based tablets are okay (i have one), but I think I would buy a Apple tablet, love the simplicity of their products. - Allen Harkleroad

wait for an Android tablet to come soon....i have a feeling it'll be soon - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

Price Points? I don't see the point of a tablet over a lightweight 13 inch macbook. With a table you have to bend your knees up or if your sitting hunch over, with a notebook it adjusts. I don't see the point unless they are way lighter and less expensive - Stephen Pickering

I'd go with the Apple, because you arent' locked to just a browser. - Gimminy

I like the iphone interface and with a larger screen it would make a compelling tablet but I think the 3rd option will be best: Android tablet - Murray Barton

Apple Tablet. - Oguz Serdar

Stephen: to get on my coffee table it has to be a tablet. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

I'd love to see an Apple Tablet that could replace the blank paper and clipboard I usually carry around. - Sam Dodge

Impossible to say since we don't know all the info. - Eric Florenzano

Android and Moblin will also be contenders. Expect nifty gadgets powered by these two - Rami Taibah

Comes down to input and interface, for me. I'll need some time to play with typing (or whatever text-entry method Apple ends up using) and web browsing to see which one I prefer before making a call. Given Apple's past strengths, I assume they'll win out here, but I remain open-minded. - Pete Mortensen

Crunchpad this year, the Tablet looks like it will be a pricey beta product in its first version so I will wait for when Apple get it right. - Alberto Saavedra

I love my Nokia Internet Tablet, something larger than that (Maemo/Moblin?) would be great. - Joshua Lee

_always_ the non-apple device. since the china death over iPhone it is a question of ethics. - Mark Jacobs

Are you deciding by brand alone? What about waiting for the final specifications? - Amit Morson

Apple tablet gonna cost a fortune, so crunchpad for me. - Fajar Nurdiansyah

plus apple tablet is bound to have the usual flaws. to save $0.01 they probably will use the one spare part which makes the system dysfunctional way before its time - Mark Jacobs

Apple because I'm am Apple fiend. Isn't there a company out there that already turns MacBooks into something like a tablet? I can't remember who, but I think I remember trying to win one at MacWorld '09. - Kriselle Laran from iPhone

neither ill stay with my netbook and my lg-incite .. both the crunchpad and the "apple" thing are way to much $ for what they do - xhozt

yeah not too keen on crunchpad after Arrington's effort around twittergate... - ben rogers

As long as I can connect a full keyboard (USB or Bluetooth, doesn't matter to me), Apple Tablet. - Eric Dunlap

Would like one with an active tablet still. Taking notes with a stylus is preferred rather than using a finger on a capacitive touch screen. - Rodfather

I'm an Apple fiend myself, using a Mac mini, but the Nokia Internet tablet has better build quality than the iPod touch. Of course, the iPod touch has a better interface.... - Joshua Lee

no, of course not by law, morally they bare all the responsability. jobs is simply a despotic dictator obsessed with secrecy. hard to imagine apple did not hand down that pressure to china. - Mark Jacobs

I'm waiting to see what the crunchpad is like.... - Joshua Lee

Apple will get it right the first time, Linux-based devices on the other hand are hit and miss.... - Joshua Lee

Apple Tablet. - TheHenry

Mark: when I was in China the supply chain guys told me they would lose millions if anything about Apple leaked. Plus workers are TOTALLY tied to their employers. They live in housing given to them by employers. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

Apple. Crunch doesn't suit my needs, which means I don't have to mention the individual who offended me. - MiniMage

Did anyone see Arrington on Charlie Rose? - Stephen Pickering

Yes, honestly, I'd probably grab both regardless. - Rodfather

I did. - Robert Scoble from iPhone

 - Don Strickland

Apple all the way. Ease of use is a given. - Jeff Foong from iPhone

Did you see the look on Charlie's face when asked about VC funding and Arrington snapped back, "I'm not going to answer that question" - Stephen Pickering

Yeah! - Robert Scoble from iPhone

Hehehehehheeheh - Stephen Pickering

Anyway when are these things going to ship? - Stephen Pickering

Maybe one day we'll see a cheap 10-11" convertible netbook with a real active tablet. Doubtful though. All the slates are too expensive too. - Rodfather

*nix + Mac finish, 10Ks Apps day 1, robust & ready out of box ... Linux is awesome, but I just don't have time for less than Apple anymore. - Don Strickland

Nothing has been announced about either, haven't held one in my hands, seen final images, or used either. No way to answer. If I had to guess, and could only choose one? Apple. - Andru Edwards from iPhone

Too early to comment, but I guess Apple... - Tahir

Apple Tablet... I've already seen what Apple can do with a mobile platform. They have the engineering and R&D teams that have proven themselves. It might take a revision or two of the Crunchpad to really make with worth something. Also, isn't the Crunchpad going to book straight into a browser and that's all? Odds are there's going to be a lot of functionality in the Apple tablet. If... more... - Matthew Williams

Apple no question - sofarsoShawn

A jailbroken tablet! - Peter Tonoli

Both, but I'll go with Apple at the end of the day. Apple has history, the R&D credential and legacy. - Paul Papadimitriou

Credit to @arrington for the Crunchpad, but an Apple tablet is gonna kill it. Techcrunch just can't compete when you look at the brand reach outside the hardcore tech community. - Roger Oldham

Nexus: Phone vs Computer (web/partial vs full OS) Question: are their other players yet to show hands?... we know Crunchpad, Apple Tablet.. are Google?, Microsoft?, Phonemakers? Computer makers? going to sit out on this new game? More i think on this CES Jan looks more like tablet wars.... - Tristan Hambling

Apples strength is the interaction between hardware and software. They are designed for each other. All other products are a compromise. Until and if Google comes up with an Android device similar to an Apple Tablet (if one ever materialises) it's a one horse race. - Gilbert Harding

You ain't got nothing unless you got it all :) seriously - there was a reason why people stopped using PDA's - they could do almost everything the PDA could on a phone. I don't want more devices in my bag - I want less. Unless Apple comes up with a better design then what has been suggested online - I think it will flop big time. If they are making one..... Not ITablet - IFoleo :) - Asgeir

@Apostol: What is the ratio of Iphone/Ipod users owning a Mac versus owning a PC? Maybe +/- 10% - Asgeir

Apple tablet, I know what I am getting and it has the company to back it. I see buying the crunch pad as being part of an experiment might be interesting, but not my first choice - Kim Landwehr from BuddyFeed

Next question: What features make sense in tablet form factor? eg..Full / Parital OS, Phone, Camera, Video, Compass, Wifi. Touch, Battery Life? Motion sensor, Microscope, TV tuner, 3D/Augmented Reality? Harddisk/Ram sizes? - Is this product ultimately really big Iphone or slimmed down computer with phone & touch extras added to pc? - Tristan Hambling

both so you can compare and complain about the other here :) - Lisa Immekus

If the Crunchpad launches in the UK at the right price-point, I'm there. - Steve Farnworth

It is like ohh, lets bridge the gap between phone and computer. That is so stuck in the 90's kind of thinking. I'd say, remove the bridge. Just give me one device that does everything. One device to rule them all, and in darkness bind them - Asgeir

I'd say the Crunchpad will be considerably cheaper, and it will be strong. Not to knock Mike, but you know you are getting quality hardware and software from Apple, so I'd definitely have to go Apple Tablet. - Chris Brakebill

Apple tablet with W7 on it, or Asus tablet 6 months after the Apple tablet :) - Kirill Petrovsky

Honestly this seems more like a Crunchpad v Netbook discussion to me. The 32GB ipod touch is $400, which is the cost of most netbooks on the market. I couldn't imagine the Apple Tablet being any less than $850. As a result, if the Crunchpad comes out BEFORE Christmas (which will be essential for market presence), AND the price is competitive with a netbook, I would then consider it as... more... - thestaticfrost

If the Apple iTablet is $700, maybe CrunchPad. If CrunchPad is $300-$400 w/o iPhone or iTouch interfaces, then CrunchPad will struggle. Apple iTable is a monster mktg machine. will be fun to catch and see what happens. I am rooting a low price point on the CrunchPad. If so, then I'll buy it. - jebbdykstra

Arrington should create a page on techcrunch dedicated to the Crunchpad asap...it's difficult to access "official info" about the status of the 'pad...requires some drilling down on the blog. - Stephen M. Otto

Apple Tablet because Arrington's a d-bag - Martin Johnson

Apple as I can buy apple care with it. - Darren Stuart

Whichever has Flash and can play Bejeweled Blitz... - ydfeed

i wouldve bought both but im not a fan of buying anything from @arrington. for some reason i just dont trust the guy. being completely a hypocrite, i still read tech crunch on a hourly basis. - Tobias Lewsadder

there is the case of a certain itunes app called dslr remote - Peter Harris

If it was strictly between Apple and the Crunchpad; I'd go with the Crunchpad in a heartbeat. Though, I am also one that would wait for an Android tablet, which may be better able to compete with Apple--especially given the news about Android 2.0. - Rishabh Mishra (p248)

get the pads not the tabs - sofarsoShawn

You can go the Apple route and know the reliability and support you will get - or buy a crunchpad. - Jim Connolly

Easy: The CrunchPad, especially if they leave the software system open so it is hackable. I don't want or need the lock-in and proprietary stuff that will be in an Apple product. A crunchpad running Linux opens up a lot of opportunities for doing my own thing. Plus, I imagine the crunchpad will be cheaper. And if they look anything like the videos of the prototypes that have been out, they definitely still look sleek. - Travis B. Hartwell

It is easy to speculate but I will have to look at both the devices and see which fits for my use. Apple will bring public attention to such devices just as Iphone made Touchscreen phones cool. - Ashish

Both give two different things. Apple's Tablet of course with the stunning UI and usability and the Crunchpad with great overall ability. - wiredgnome

I don't really even see them competing directly. The Apple is for a completely different audience. As a geek, I'll always choose TechCrunch over Apple. - peter

why not both! Apple is 4 consumers. Crunchpad 4 geeks! If Crunchpad markets it rite, I think there could be a potential:) - polou/indigo_bow

CrunchPad! - Daniel Brusilovsky

both Of course the Apple one will rock and Ill wait for Pogue to review the Crunchpad. Ill get it too if he likes it - JTC

Robert Scoble

There's one thing NO ONE is talking about in terms of #twittergate (the role of the SUL in pressure on @techcrunch). Will discuss here:

July 15, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Joe Dawson, thinkQuick, Gordon Saunders and 28 other people liked this

TechCrunch is on Twitter's Suggested User List. They have been gifted about 880,000 followers by being on that list, AKA "SUL". That's worth a lot of money. - Robert Scoble

147 more comments

SUL? - iconic88

SUL? Sulfuric acid? - Richard

So what are you saying? That they shouldn't leak the docs because they got a lot of followers from Twitter? - Dare Obasanjo

That they leaked the docs to become more popular on twitter? - Tyler Hurst

the point most people are missing is that TechCrunch states they have spoken with Twitter. I am sure Twitter execs know what's coming and are prepared - Kevin

Wouldn't you think the <800k SUL-generated followers would have made @arrington LESS likely to publish the docs? - Tom Guarriello

Dare: I bet that Twitter is threatening Mike with getting kicked off. - Robert Scoble

Here is a link to a post of a dozen screenshots of Twitters admin panels http://www.nowhereelse.fr/admin-t... "There are 187 featured SUL Uusers" - Mark

Tom: it's gotta be one consideration Mike is considering. - Robert Scoble

Techcrunch did mention in one of their posts that Twitter is generating a lot of traffic for them. So the SUL does work for them. And it works for twitter as they stop TC from posting the documents - Sidharth Dassani

Sure, Robert. But he's pushed it this far despite the SUL factor. - Tom Guarriello

SUL = Suggested User List - Manuel Arroyo

I bet that twitter prefers this to leak on techcrunch where Mike can spin some stories for them than to see the zip file with the docs appearing on a torrent site ! - Eschnou

wikileaks maybe? - Mark

So twitter kicks arrington off. does he publish the docs? does that help him? - Tyler Hurst

If Twitter kicks him off get ready for a big time firestorm! (Just mistyped: "firestory"!) - Tom Guarriello

Tom: Mike is a journalist. He also says that someone else will publish them, so might as well tell everyone that these things are knocking around in public. - Robert Scoble

Even without the suggested users list, TechCrunch must be weighing the cost of enmity with the most popular startup in the Valley right now. Don't they write like 3 Twitter stories a day? What happens if Twitter stops talking to them and takes all their press communications to Mashable (who are already beginning to kick TechCrunch's butt with their social media savviness? - Dare Obasanjo

Robert - Arrington is NOT a journalist. Journalists check sources. Process journalism is NOT real journalism. He's a writer. - Tyler Hurst

How did Arrington not check his sources? He confirmed they are real docs - Kevin

Yes, read all his rationale. Seems sincere in trying to separate juiciest from items he considers newsworthy. BTW, I do believe he is a journalist. - Tom Guarriello

Which would they kick? Him with ~8K followers? Not TC with ~1million followers. - Mike Shea

Kevin - not just this article. did you see his article on how the free google apps was gone when it was just a page layout change? - Tyler Hurst

Tyler: I've been in the hotel room watching as Arrington checked his sources on a story. You're wrong on that one. - Robert Scoble

Mike: almost all of TechCrunch's followers were gifted to him by TechCrunch (same with Mashable, by the way). Before the Suggested Users List came along both had fewer followers than me, Leo Laporte, and a couple of others. Being on the SUL is worth lots of money (I believe it's worth millions, if you stay on it for a few years). - Robert Scoble

Tom - these are stolen documents. What does his rationale matter at this point? - Tyler Hurst

Dare: yes, I'm sure Mike is considering all the consequences. Also, if these documents really do exist someone will publish them. When I quit Microsoft I told 15 people and I didn't even know the guy who leaked my story. - Robert Scoble

For the record, so far, I have not been given the Twitter documents. - Robert Scoble

Scoble - so why doesn't Twitter just publish them? Get ahead of any new site? - Tyler Hurst

Tyler: journalists have printed stolen stuff that's newsworthy in the past. - Robert Scoble

Tyler: I don't know, but I bet that Twitter does not want these released. - Robert Scoble

Tyler - So were the Pentagon Papers. - Tom Guarriello

Tyler: I wonder, if I did have them, and I talked with @ev, would he offer to put me on the SUL in return for not publishing the documents? - Robert Scoble

Scoble - are they newsworthy because they're stolen or newsworthy because they're juicy? What good does this do? - Tyler Hurst

Scoble - now that's a damn good question about SUL. - Tyler Hurst

No journalist should have accepted to be on the SUL and at least at this moment ask that they be taken off. - Stephen Pickering

Dare, to answer your original question, the SUL is a gift worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe even millions. Jason Calacanis has already set the price at $250,000. So, the SUL is, in effect, a bribe that can be used to keep journalists/bloggers/twitterers in line. If you had a gift in your hand worth hundreds of thousands of dollars you would think twice before turning that gift away. I know I would. - Robert Scoble

Robert: I'd say no to that, @ev knows that those docs are out there now anyway. If you were the only with them (hypothetically speaking), then he might have. But he'd probably equate it to extortion. Would you really want that? - Mike Shea

I think twitter could just delete the techcrunch account if it wants to make a point. SUL removal wouldn't do much as they already have a lot of followers from it. - Darren Stuart

Stephen: that is a very difficult ethical position to arrive at, especially if your competitors are also on the SUL (Mashable is on the SUL right now). - Robert Scoble

Darren: wrong. If you remove yourself from the SUL you immediately start losing followers and start falling behind your competitors. - Robert Scoble

Scoble - so you're saying that blackmail is okay as long as it benefits you? - Tyler Hurst

Darren: in the race for advertising and PR and all that being at the top of the follower list gets you all sorts of goodies. http://www.wefollow.com for instance displays people in order of the number of the followers. - Robert Scoble

How did the valuation for getting on the SUL end up being done? Is there a dollar value per follower based on link click throughs + ad clickthroughs? - Dare Obasanjo

No one in the TC office yet, according to CrunchCam. Probably all sleeping. Boy today is going to be a busy day for them. - Mark

Tyler: no. I'm not saying that. I'm hoping that if I am in any of these positions that I would take the high road. But living on the high road is very difficult. - Robert Scoble

Dare: I used to help run a magazine with 100,000 subscribers that made millions in revenue every year. - Robert Scoble

Scoble - That's the answer I'd expect from you. Journalists ALWAYS take the high road. - Tyler Hurst

Dare: you could use a CPM (advertising fee per 1000 viewers) of $5 and come up with some sort of valuation. - Robert Scoble

You can't objectively report on a company who is paying you directly and for that matter its impossible to also be a journalist and the owner of the news organization. In the past there's always suppossed to have been a firewall between content and the business side. But that's out the window. Notice all the puff pieces about bing on the NYtimes. Hmmmm, I wonder if that could be all the advertising dollars? Hmmmmmm - Stephen Pickering

Tyler: journalists don't always take the high road. There are several New York Times journalists on the SUL if I remember right. - Robert Scoble

Scoble - I wouldn't say the NYT is a leader in journalistic ethics anymore, either. - Tyler Hurst

Wise words from @arrington "News is stuff someone doesn’t want you to write. The rest is advertising." - Mark

Stephen: exactly. Money does cause news organizations to carefully consider their coverage, even those who say it doesn't and that have a "Chinese firewall" between editorial and advertising. - Robert Scoble

No one is in this tight economy its all about $$$$$$$$$$$$ - Stephen Pickering

Mark - BS. he publishes rumors too. - Tyler Hurst

Stephen: if I had the documents I'd have to consider its impact on my employer, Rackspace. That's why I disclose all my conflicts of interest. - Robert Scoble

Scoble - do you believe Arrington's claim that he just received these documents? - Tyler Hurst

Robert: Trick is to take the employer out of the equation. What would you do if you were on your own? - Mike Shea

Robert: good points, are techcrunch going to publish the stories is the question now? I think twitter is at a point now where it does not matter if techcrunch start a war with them if they were to just ban all techcrunch and employee accounts. - Darren Stuart

There's no better publicity than bad publicity. Just remember that. Remember the whole Ashton and CNN thing? That turned out to be backed by twitter and created HUGE publicity for them. Something doesn't smell right. Not saying all bad publicity is good for both parties, but in a situation like this, it's plausible that both Ev/twitter and Mike/TC are just laughing their asses off as the publicity pulls in more page views - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

Mike is not a journalist. He is a self-confessed showboater. - Mark Littlewood

Mike - so much for the honesty, transparency and authenticity we hoped social media and such would provide. A new ruling class has just replaced the old one. - Tyler Hurst

Tyler: yes, I do believe Arrington. - Robert Scoble

Does twitter go after the hacker? - Tyler Hurst

Tyler, especially with the whole mob thing and FF. Something is up here. Of course, I could be completely off my rocker and it's all just one big coincidence and Mike really is that much of a pompous ass. - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

The twit poll on the issue from TC http://twtpoll.com/2a1oiv showed an overwhelming stance from the community that posting the information is unethical. It might be better for TC to let someone else (Mashable) post the information, resulting in removal from a SUL and gaining both ethical rapport with the community and an edge over competition. This is one story that would be rough to break, why is that only TC has the information so far? That is the more alarming concern. - thestaticfrost

Mark: Mashable won't publish these either. They have benefited from the SUL a lot more than Arrington has. - Robert Scoble

Robert, interesting POV, I would still personally stand down on the issue. - thestaticfrost

ethics a side I think its a case of - if SUL pageviews > estimated story pageviews then do not publish - Darren Stuart

Mark: on the SUL? Yeah, but the SUL is interesting and won't stop being interesting just because I stop writing about it. There are rafts of new journalistic text books being written because of it. - Robert Scoble

The more I think about this...the more it seems plausible that twitter has been doing stuff behind closed doors to generate publicity. Who's heard of twitter going after ANY hacker? Why is it only TC that this email was sent to? If a hacker REALLY had this info, wouldn't they do something a bit less obvious? Like I dunno...sell the stuff? Which brings up another question....how much did TC pay for this info? I guess if TC continues to be on the SUL we'll know the answer. - Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ

Mike: what would I do if I were on my own? I'm biased toward publishing, but I need to know the facts first before I really could say one way or the other. - Robert Scoble

To put it in reverse, maybe if you got the documents you could give them back to Twitter in exchange for getting on the SUL. :) - Louis Gray

Mike: it's possible that the hacker works for TechCrunch or has a business relationship with TechCrunch. Mike has built a good network of people who offer him news before anyone else. The thing is now Mike has access to internal info at Twitter that will be hard to avoid in interviews with Twitter. - Robert Scoble

Mike/Robert: If a less reputable blogger/company had this information, it would already have been posted and this conversation would be moving another direction. The pageviews would trump any SUL. - thestaticfrost

mark - what a crappy way to make a name for yourself. publishing stolen documents to serve the public good is one thing, publishing as a smear campaign is wrong. - Tyler Hurst

Mark: I don't believe that's true. Remember, TechCrunch only had about 50,000 followers on Twitter before being added to the SUL. I seriously doubt one story would get them more than 100,000, even if it was the most interesting, sexy story around. - Robert Scoble

Tyler, it would be an awful way to make a name for yourself, I agree but that is not the issue. - thestaticfrost

Louis: word gets around when you extort companies. It's not a good thing and almost always comes back on you eventually as the people involved move to other companies and spread the news around. - Robert Scoble

Louis: if I had the documents I wouldn't use them as extortion for that reason. I know one guy who extorted a company and I'll always remember that. - Robert Scoble

Tyler, if TechCrunch was doing it as a smear campaign they would publish a lot more of the documents and have started off with something other that a softball. - Matthew McCowan

Arrington is getting it both ways here. He writes about it to say they're not going to post the most juicy stuff but he still gets most of the benefits of posting everything. A lot of people are talking about it. He's a master hypeologist. - Justin Whittaker

Matthew - that was in reference to a small blogger grabbing the documents and throwing them all out there. - Tyler Hurst

Justin: that is accurate about Arrington. - Robert Scoble

Tyler, oh gotcha - sorry - Matthew McCowan

Matthew - no, techcrunch is doing it for the page views, of course. - Tyler Hurst

Robert, interesting tie of numbers into the SUL growth of TC. Perhaps there is an exorbitant value of the SUL, this story would just be pennies in comparison. I see no feasible monetary gain available for TC to violate this ethical issue. - thestaticfrost

Patrick: even if you aren't on the SUL most of your followers aren't listening. :-) - Robert Scoble

I'm sick of being monetized into the services I use.. It's almost enough to make me stop it all altogether. - John Blanton

John - stuff has to get paid for. - Tyler Hurst

Says John as he drinks a $4 latte from Starbucks. - Robert Scoble

"I'm sick of being monetized into the services I use." - Then turn off the TV and radio, don't buy any newspapers or magazines, or look at any ad-supported web sites. It's the way of the world. - John Craft

Stupid posh coffee. Normal coffee, with milk, please. - Mark

Patrick: Arrington tells me that being on the SUL has brought them audience and, therefore, money. - Robert Scoble

I don't have a problem with Techcrunch releasing the articles they are, however don't say they are doing in for public interest. They are doing it for Techcrunch interest, nothing wrong with that, but lets be honest. - Kim Landwehr

Right now the man with all the answers is fast asleep in his bed, dreaming of world domination - Mark

Kim - yep. - Tyler Hurst

Matthew: pat of the "Mission" of a business is never to shoot yourself in the foot. - thestaticfrost

Robert: This is what happened when the lovely Veronica Belmont finally responded to my questions regarding the number of 'bots' following those on the SUL :http://ff.im/57MjU - Jim Connolly

I'd like to see an estimate of the ROI of being on the SUL. Different for everyone, but it can be modeled. Would bring an interesting new perspective into the discussion. - Peter Kim

Matthew - the only debate of SUL value would be total worth, not if it has a worth. - Tyler Hurst

If I could offer you hundreds of thousands of extra hits on your website a year, for FREE, would you accept? - Mark

Mark: there is no such thing as a free lunch. - Robert Scoble

Nothing is ever free. - thestaticfrost

hehe - Mark

What if Twitter is using their influence at TechCrunch, to manage the delivery of this 'story?' Better that, than someone publish the story, with a negative spin. - Jim Connolly

Matthew: how do you know it's not? Mike has already said he's talking with Twitter and he hasn't published the information. So, he gets best of both worlds. Gets credit for having the info, and now has inside access that no one else has. The SUL might never have even come up (I doubt it has, actually) but now we're wondering what kind of deal they made. - Robert Scoble

here is a link to a story that deals with Arringtons "wise words" http://ff.im/5g6LJ - Marco

Matthew: yes, which leads me to think that he made a deal with Twitter. - Robert Scoble

TC has not let the cat out yet, no reason to believe that it will. They made it past the first hour of having the information which is most crucial to it being fully released. - thestaticfrost

Good point Jim. That TC story was actually Incredibly measured. Not like arrington at all. Hmmmmm.... - Roberto Bonini from iPhone

Matthew: I'm not judging, just bringing up the potential conflicts of interest to discuss them. I don't see anyone judging here yet. - Robert Scoble

Robert: In your experience, would Michael Arrington NORMALLY be this careful about drip feeding a story, so as NOT to offend the person / company featured in the story? - Jim Connolly

Jim: Twitter is the story of the year. So, yes, he's being more careful here than he otherwise would. And, if these documents were stolen, he's also a lawyer and is being careful to make sure he stays on the legal side of the line. I would be very careful with this story too. I have a different conflict of interest, though, which is that I'm an employee of Rackspace and would have to consider the impact of such a story on my company. - Robert Scoble

Let's be clear if Techcrunch has the information, so does someone else. The information is going to get out. Techcrunch maybe releasing the story slowly to maintain the interest. My guess is they are getting a lot more hits with this story then they would normally - Kim Landwehr

Matthew: I like to pretend I live in a dream world sometimes too, but I don't. I doubt we'll hear what was actually said back and forth in an off-the-record conversation. If i were Ev the first thing I would have said is "this is an off the record conversation, right?" And then if Arrington repeated it he would lose status too, because sources wouldn't trust him to talk openly. - Robert Scoble

Kim: if other people have the story they will publish it all at once. So doing a slow rollout would actually be stupid. I bet no one else has the story, yet. - Robert Scoble

I don't see them on the twitter SUL - Orli Yakuel

Orli: see who? - Robert Scoble

Orli: if you are already following TechCrunch and Mashable they won't appear on the SUL, you've gotta check with an account that isn't following them. - Robert Scoble

oh, silly me. I remember that list before BTW, it's just got HUGE. who's checking there anyway? - Orli Yakuel

Orli: most new users of Twitter get shown the list and get the option to follow everyone on it. - Robert Scoble

It looks like some of the same information is being released on a French Web site per bizjournal - Kim Landwehr

Sorry if this is a repeat, I haven't managed to read every single comment... @techcrunch didn't even publish these docs first; why are they taking all the heat? This was the first place I saw it - http://bit.ly/10FySf - Kenton

um. - Orli Yakuel

Kenton: Because Arrington himself said he would publish them. Arrington is a joke and far from a true journalist. - John Fox

John: I disagree with you about Arrington. But so far nothing is that interesting in what the French site has published. So I'm wondering what the big deal is? Maybe Arrington knows that there's no real news value in what was gained, so he is making lemonade out of lemons? The real story here is that Google's security measures were overcome, so this is a cautionary tale about putting private info into the cloud. - Robert Scoble

I totally agree about your cloud comment Robert. This should be a lesson to everyone who's jumping on the bandwagon without thinking about the risks. - Kenton

Here's another post from Business Insider. Now that the docs have been published, everyone can link ethically, even though the info was stolen. Ahh, I love the journalism business sometimes. http://www.businessinsider.com/twitter... - Robert Scoble

Robert: I don't see where the educational part of the content is that he's going to publish. What will be gained except corporate secrets and Twitter's dirty laundry? If this was a major corporation, he'd an injunction would be in effect right now. Yes, shame on Twitter for putting that kind of information in the cloud without adequate security, but then again, Arrington doesn't need to take advantage of the situation for notariety alone. That's a poor ethical standard. - John Fox

John: Arrington gets the best of both worlds. He gets credit for thinking through the publishing of this info, while other people do the dirty work. See http://www.businessinsider.com/twitter... Why didn't Arrington just publish? Well, the SUL is one potential reason. Are there others? Did @ev give him an exclusive? Or some other reason not to publish? We'll never know. - Robert Scoble

I think by the time Arrington wakes up (lazy bastard) he will have been Scooped by other websites - Mark

Mark: already has been: http://www.businessinsider.com/twitter... - Robert Scoble

Robert: I don't doubt that Arrington walked a fine line, thinking through the publishing of the info. I don't fault him for that. As a tech writer myself, I know there are certain things that will get you sued in a heartbeat. However, I don't see what Arrington has to gain from this other than notariety and to get TC's name out there even more. This is a tainted story from the start.... more... - John Fox

Ok question, are we mad at Techcrunch ie Arrington, because he published only part of the information or that he publish the information at all or that he said he would publish it and didn't? - Kim Landwehr

I'm not saying it's okay to publish ill-gotten confidential material but people would be less tempted to do so if Twitter were more transparent and less secretive. For a social network, they have a real 1.0 social media philosophy. Even Facebook reveals information about their userbase and growth. But Twitter is like a black box as the #fixreplies disaster revealed. And since that hashtag dropped off the Trending Topics, we've never heard any more about their proposed solution. - Liz

The lack of democracy on the SUL is one of the most disturbing aspects of Twitter. It pushes Twitter towards an echo chamber since new people just follow the same old people. There needs to be some serious rotation. - Trent Hamm

Matthew: yes, Rose runs http://www.wefollow.com -- the problem is that most people on the home page and at the top of most lists are on Twitter's SUL. - Robert Scoble

Just logged into twitter and a big red box tells me my account is suspensed for strange activity. Hmm - Mark

But I can still post. Hmm - Mark

I am reading that thousands of twitter accounts have been wrongly suspended due to "human error". Has anyone heard anything? - Mark

he sees to have delisons of Grandure Murdoch gets away with hacking becasue of his power and the willingness of cronys to take the fall and the plod to turn a blind eye - he still needs to mak the public interest defence which he has not - Maurice Walshe

Twitter's response: http://blog.twitter.com - Liz

Judging by Liz's link, looks like Twitter chose to play cards in public and Twitter just won. Talking about "The underware drawer" analogy flat out says the documents are gossip and not a story. This makes TechCrunch look like a gossip rag. Twitter also focused on their users and their security- the Ace of Spades. Bravo. - E-Advocate Network

I was wrongly suspended along with 9 others months ago. It was a terrible experience. - DaveDelaney.ME

my question for mr. scoble is, if the same documents landed in your inbox would you have done the same thing? - Tobias Lewsadder

Just curious about something. Earlier I tried following Techcrunch on Twitter and found I was blocked, supposedly "at the request of the user." Since I don't remember saying a bad word about Techcrunch or Michael (as Robert can attest from discussions in the past couple of months, I've usually defended Arrington on a few things), I'm wondering if the block was TechCrunch's doing or Twitter's. - George Hall (Australia)

Robert Scoble

Interesting, Mike Arrington deleted the TechCrunch account on friendfeed. My additional thoughts are on mobs and this here:

June 7, 2009 - Comment - Like - Share

Gordon Saunders, Simone Lovati, Rick Bucich and 162 other people liked this

be right back with more. - Robert Scoble

723 more comments

That makes me sad because it was my favorite tech blog to click "like" on. I talked with Mike this morning at an event and he said last night was one of the worst he's ever lived through with the amount of hatred aimed at him. He deleted 600 Techcrunch comments, too, he told me. - Robert Scoble

Some of the comments I've seen on both sides of the aisle are pretty damn repugnant. I've had that kind of stuff aimed at me in the past and it's never fun. - Robert Scoble

he pissed off Leo's hardcore fans - David Lloyd

wow, deleted the tc account. Scoble: what do you think are going to be the long term implications of this? - ming yeow

It just goes to show that people love to pay attention to negative things, but rarely to positives, or when people make efforts to make up for past misgivings. Sad, but human nature. - Chris Charabaruk

Funny, I remember helping push a mob against some people I really didn't like and a friend really ripped into me for doing that. My friend was right, of course. Interesting that not many people are speaking up against the kinds of comments (aimed personally, not at the substance of what happened). I want to be counted as one of those who stood up personally against the kind of comments I've seen. - Robert Scoble

600 hateful comments? Puts a knot in my stomach just thinking about it. Have had the occasional hate comments but never to that extent - David Weedmark

I didn't dig into those treads too much but imagine they got pretty nasty, probably more so on digg. too bad though, i used FF to find lots of TC content - sean percival

Mark: and Leo should call them back and tell them shame. The kinds of things I've seen against Mike (and some against Leo too) are just awful. People saying that Mike should get cancer and die and worse. - Robert Scoble

thats fucked up Robert. - David Lloyd

David: Given the number of people who hate Arrington's guts, 600 doesn't seem too bad. Just one person harassing you over a period of years over the net (as I've had) is much worse than 600 random people digging at you once and then going away. - Chris Charabaruk

Very strange... Was it hacked? - Hugo Romano

But don't you think due to a LOT of pent up frustration against Mike? His attitude has always been a point of contentment amongst lots of people i know. - ming yeow

Bindu: Mike is actually a pretty sensitive guy beneath a lot of bluster. I'm to blame for pushing the friendfeeders to poke at Mike. - Robert Scoble

ming: there's some of that that's Mike's fault too. But when mobs happen they always go overboard. - Robert Scoble

SCOBLE: I was the one who posted the video on youtube (MPB326) that everyone has been linking to and I have gotten the 700+ comments to my email account. I can't believe some of the stupid things people are saying on YouTube. Terrible stuff! I was actually thinking about deleting the video. - Mike Bracco

Sorry but he shouldn't have deleted his FF account. He should have stayed the storm. I think what he said to Leo was out of line, but to receive the vitriol he has is unnecessary. I think he deserves criticism, but not cancer threats. - kenneth glenn

Yeah that's really screwed up. If those people want to get pissed off at something, come to a third world country and take a gander at all the "real" abuses people do. Talk about making you sick ... - Nick in Manila

scobe: roger that. I like leo a lot, but that seemed to be an overreaction by him. then the mobs wayyyy over reacted - ming yeow

ming: and go far further than the problem that incited them in the first place. And Mike rarely gets personal, as far as I have seen, even when his barbs are aimed at something I've done. - Robert Scoble

Mike acts like a dick. Then again, so do I. I used to have a hate-on for him myself until I realized that really, he's a lot like me... Ballsy and annoying on the outside, but a real human with real feelings on the inside. I'm not afraid to call him a jerk to his face, but that's his behaviour I'm commenting on, not him personally. - Chris Charabaruk

Chris: we're all dicks once in a while. I think that's part of being human. Far as I know there's only one perfect human who has walked on the earth and I bet even he wasn't perfect if we actually could get to know him. - Robert Scoble

Neal: Everyone loves taking everyone else down a notch or two. Primate dominance games. - Chris Charabaruk

Mike it would be better to post the follow up video on youtube. It was an interesting conversation and would help put everything into context. - Benjamin Taylor

Neal: Chris nailed it. We love building people up and then dragging them down. I told Mike that whenever I've gotten a shit storm to form it's been when I've been at my most interesting. - Robert Scoble

Benjamin - yeah I wish I also captured the conversation a little while after between Arrington and Leo where they talked it out. - Mike Bracco

This is sad - Johni Fisher

Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does. - Robert Scoble

Leo has this massive army of supporters, and many more who probably found the clip and came to support him. These weren't neutral third parties giving their honest opinion on the incident, they were Leo supporters through and through. I can't blame him for deleting the account, because I was reading the comments, and they were tough. - Colin

I'm really surprised that Mike still, after all the crap he gets, feels hurt from these comments by people. But last night he and Leo were both discussing how these comments about "mike should die" are not from reasonable, of right mind people. I'm sad that he takes those comments to heart. And I'm sad that trolls thrive in this place (the internet) I love. - Lise

Has Leo said anything to his supporters about their attacks on Mike since yesterday, by the way? - Chris Charabaruk

As much as we all may like and respect Arrington, it just seems as if he was trying to create news at Leo's expense. - Stuart Tracte

Colin: yeah, and Leo should have spoken to his audience and told them to stay professional. But that will come back to Leo someday. These things always do, which is why my friend was correct when he told me never to push a mob. - Robert Scoble

I missed TWiT so I don't know if Leo brought it up or not during the show, but I hope he took an opportunity to tell others that its not their place to fight Mike on Leo's behalf. Especially after they made up. - Chris Charabaruk

But Robert, working your ass off isn't an excuse for behaving badly to people or acting the way arirngton has in the past. Hard work doesn't mean you get to be a jerk - David Lloyd

Neal: yeah, some people become larger than life and it makes people feel that it's OK to do pretty outrageous things against them. - Robert Scoble

Chris: He didn't. I'm not sure he's even aware of the comments Mike got. - Vlad Bobleanta

Leo said at the end of his TWIT feed that he "had trouble sleeping last night." Perhaps because of this brou-ha-ha? - Steve Burgess

Vlad: Thanks. That's a shame, I think it'd be really good for both sides if Leo did come out and say this to everyone. Even if he just recorded a short video clip and tossed it up, standalone. - Chris Charabaruk

Whatever either of them say at this point, it has gone beyond them and their ability to "do" anything - Susan Reynolds

Robert, Leo could have said "please stay professional" a thousand times but come on, this is the internet. Do trolls, who are always ready for a fight, listen to that? - Lise

Susan: Perhaps, but it would still help allow cooler minds and attitudes to prevail and in a shorter time than if they remain silent. - Chris Charabaruk

Mark: I think Arrington would agree with you. - Robert Scoble

Chris: He brought the incident up, but didn't calm anyone down. Again, I'm not sure he's aware of what's been going on. - Vlad Bobleanta

i still post all my posts here. i can post the other TC ones if you guys want too. - MG Siegler

Chris, that's true, but there are still a vast army of followers who think they are in the right and just go off half cocked - and stay that way - Susan Reynolds

Lise: true too. - Vlad Bobleanta

Lise: probably not, but my friend's words ring true: to hold back mobs as much as possible. - Robert Scoble

This is 1. not a surprise & 2. mobs are not at the behest of the personalities they follow. They are mobs. Mobs glom onto some perceived raison d'etre and go. If Arrington, after all of his time pushing buttons and twisting tits, is surprised by this, well, he's a whole hell of a lot dumber than he ever gets credit for being. - Dave Martin

Leo and Steve had a big fight last night: bottom line is GG is off the twit network - David Lloyd

MG: that would be cool. Techcrunch was my #1 most "liked" feed here on friendfeed. - Robert Scoble

People saying stupid things in comments? This is nothing new. Sometimes you just don't want to deal with it anymore. - Dean Clark

perhaps someone could set up an acocunt that will link to TC articles as they are posted in real time - David Lloyd

Susan: "Madness is rare in individuals--but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche - Chris Charabaruk

I hope he recreates it. - Johnny

Dave: I don't think he's surprised by it, just shocked at how bad it's gotten. - Robert Scoble

Perhaps someone could write a piece detailing the mob situation, defending Arrington, and encouraging him to come back, maybe this is it. - Colin

Dave Martin: I get why he's surprised. There's always a disconnect between someone like him and the so called community, and also there's always a mob waiting to be formed. - Vlad Bobleanta

Not all of those comments were hateful. he pissed me off more when he deleted mine. I pointed out what he said and then opined that I didn't think it was enough and he deleted this: http://ff.im/3FDfA - Gimminy

Big names, little names, it's still hard to see hateful things aimed your way. Intellectually most of us understand, but emotions sometimes get in the way even to the big fish - Susan Reynolds

wtf happened? i missed it and am sorry whatever came to this has come to this. - jeneane sessum

Chris: good quote! My history teacher in College simplified that to "the masses are asses." - Robert Scoble

Maybe he is just shocked that not only Leo's community attacked him but also his "loyal" techcrunch community gave him a bashing - David Lloyd

Robert, I see your point, but I don't need to be told to refrain from attacking someone. I saw what happened. I wish Leo hadn't gotten *so* angry but I respect that he feels passionately. He was defending his integrity. So that I respect. I respect Mike for handling it all so well and not throwing F bombs back. And I love Leo. But I wasn't going to curse Mike or wish death upon him. So those that did, there's no changing them. - Lise

Jeneane: Mike and Leo got into it on Gillmor Gang yesterday. There's a whole thread about that. - Robert Scoble

TechCrunch Question: I noticed that my comments on FF for TechCrunch articles also appeared as part of TC's comments on their site. Is that part of FF API? - Mike Bracco

Not sure how taking TC off FF relates to the problems Arrington was having in comments on his blog. ? - Nick in Manila

Nick: the most hostile comments were in FF comments - David Lloyd

Jeneane: http://friendfeed.com/twit-co... - Vlad Bobleanta

Mark: Aha. - Nick in Manila

oh jeez. thx robert. i'm sorry to hear that. sounds like the chorus got active. - thanks for the link Vlad. had no idea. - jeneane sessum

Lise: good point, but I've learned that if leaders call on their followers to behave appropriately then they usually do. I don't want anyone who calls for someone else to get cancer to read me, by the way. I am here to have great conversations about tech. Keep it on the tech and we'll have a great time. - Robert Scoble

Lise, Robert, the hateful comments say more about the idiots who write them than about the two personalities about which the angry words swirl - Susan Reynolds

Nick: death threats etc - David Lloyd

Lise: There are those who were ready to tear Arrington to shreds, at least until the mutual apologies of him and Leo came out on TechCrunch. At least, I can't believe I'm the only one who felt like that. Some angry people can be assauged. - Chris Charabaruk

Mark: Not sure I agree. The Youtube comments are terrible. - Mike Bracco

it's difficult to be surprised by the size of this reaction.like it or not, you guys are celebrities. - Stuart Tracte

Mike: no, Techcrunch had a Wordpress Plugin that was doing that. That Plugin has been removed, too. - Robert Scoble

Stuart: The size, yes. The venom of it, though? - Chris Charabaruk

shouldnt be too hard to make an unofficial ff account for techcrunch posts - David Lloyd

someone wanna go do it? - David Lloyd

Stuart: that's the thing. We're also people and Mike is sensitive like the rest of us (even if he has built a persona that shows him as above it all). - Robert Scoble

Mark: Surprised if someone hasn't already beaten us all to it. - Chris Charabaruk

Mark: I'd rather not do that. I'd rather someone at Techcrunch does that. - Robert Scoble

There are a few existing TC accounts from their feed. - Benjamin Taylor

Scoble's made the point that FF has structural features to control that kind of stuff. Guess it was overwhelmed. - Nick in Manila

Chris C, so you were one of the ones wishing death upon Mike until he apologized? - Lise

well im sure if Arrington took it down, it is probably TC policy not to have FF account, his other writers wont make one - David Lloyd

Fanboys are going to follow whatever lead they're directed. If Leo had said that Mike had terrible BO, there'd be thousands of Leo disciples telling Arrington to get himself some deodorant. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is. - Jay Caruso

hows this http://friendfeed.com/techcru... - Jack

Leo is well-spoken, he makes things sound good, he's a well-known likeable guy, and he was the one on video, that's a lot of things going for him if you ignore everything else that's going on, and people do. Just mob mentality and drive-by commenting. - Colin

Behind every great character there is a real person. I just hope that the more rational people currently participating in the mob realize this and understand what they're doing before they do anything worse. - Chris Charabaruk

Nick: well, yes. I wish we could have a team feed from Techcrunch. - Robert Scoble

I still like Mike and don't think he should have deleted the TC account. I enjoy the TC posts but find that Mike and Erick tend to get to a point that makes me want to stop reading their stuff, and I won't for a few days. - Gimminy

Just create a public standard feed/group (owner controls posts, anyone can comnent), and import TC from twitter/RSS/whatever. - Ken Kennedy

Lise: Not wishing death, but I certainly would have given him shit and got up in his face if I had the chance. I don't fight (often) but I do relish giving hell to people. - Chris Charabaruk

Done: http://friendfeed.com/techcru... - Jack

Jay, that's not true. I am a huge Leo fangirl but I also think for myself. - Lise

Jack, subscribed. - Robert Scoble

Lise, it wasn't a blanket statement. I've been a fan of Leo's since the old Tech TV days. Just saying that some will take it too far and it all it takes is the person to open that door a crack. - Jay Caruso

Thanks, Jacky boy x - David Lloyd

Robert, is there anything else that needs doing? I think I got it right - Jack

Wait... is Jack affiliated with Techcrunch? Why not have MG do this? He offered. - Ken Sheppardson

Nicholas: At this point I'd probably be calling Arrington to tell him to not take it too personally, that mobs are really just sheep with pointy teeth. - Chris Charabaruk

Jack, Robert: MG can handle this. He writes for Techcrunch. How 'bout we not squat on their brand? - Ken Sheppardson

Chris C, exactly. You just said, you relish giving people hell. You're always ready for a fight. I, on the other hand, am not. And I looked at this situation and considered both sides, despite being a huge Leo fan and not knowing many details on Mike (other than he pisses people off) - Lise

Is there really much more discussion about this? What is done is done. It's already in the past & let's move on. No one knows how this will affect Leo in the future if at all. - Jason Hansen

Want to know what else happened? A single moderator in Leo's IRC chat room muted the entire channel, causing the mob to spill into FriendFeed. - Colin

When I first was diagnosed w/ cancer and the twitter community started the frozen pea fund to donate to cancer research, Mike and Robert were among the first to write about it. As I see it, they both keep a human touch to the community no matter how popular the following. I appreciate that and so maybe its easier for me to see past some of the things that upset the crowds. - Susan Reynolds

I'm not affiliated in any way with TC - Jack

are you okay now Susan ? xxx - David Lloyd

Lise: anyone who does interesting things in media is going to piss someone off. Even me, I try to take reasonable positions and do my homework, but I have lots of haters out there too. It's unavoidable. - Robert Scoble

Jason, I think there is. Considering Mike deleted his account and the GG site no longer exists on techcrunch. I feel bad for Mike and Steve. - Lise

OK, if he asks - Jack

Eric - true - ff as focus group - Susan Reynolds

Why do you feel bad for Mike & Steve? - Jason Hansen

Lise: Steve deleted the GG page, if I heard that correct. It will be interesting to see how the Gillmor Gang goes forward from here. - Robert Scoble

Robert, no I get that. But that's my point. I know Mike is capable of that. And I'm way more of a Leo fangirl. Yet I wasn't with my fist in the air yelling "fight!" - Lise

Mark - thanks for asking. Not OK but very supported by the best of the net - Susan Reynolds

Because Steve realized his show isn't really his show. And Mike got hell when he didn't even give Leo that much shit to begin with. - Lise

You know, my main issue with what happened yesterday, is that it was an ego clash. And just that. Funny that in the make-up part Leo kept insisting that he'd like more content on GG and less drama, an hour or two after he himself caused a helluva lot of drama. I do love Leo and watch all of his shows, but yesterday he was overreacting. And I think he figured that out in the mean time.... more... - Vlad Bobleanta

ROBERT: oops caps, I do know Leo and Steve had a fight last night and its not gonna be on TWiT anymore x - David Lloyd

If the mob is acting "in Leo's name", then I think Leo should try and tell them that they're certainly not acting with his permission or blessings. That they should disband and stop attacking Mike. - Chris Charabaruk

My impression is the guy went over tipping point for the kind of character he was putting out there, at some point people are going to say enough is enough. - Ian Wright

Nicholas: the show used to be private, Im not sure Steve cares that much about the audience - David Lloyd

Live by the sword... - Ian Wright

Vlad, it was the final straw for Leo. He had said before that Mike was becoming too trollish during the GG show. And when he felt like Mike was about to attack his integrity, well, he blew up. Unfortunately. - Lise

gillmor gang is going to be nothing more than a conference call :-( - Tobias Lewsadder

Nicholas: Steve cares about the audience more than he lets on. He knows that by making things interesting he's doing right by the audience. That doesn't mean, though, that you kowtow to the audience. - Robert Scoble

Tobias: heheh, in the real time world? THAT I would have to see! - Robert Scoble

Isn't that your opinion Robert? - Jason Hansen

I watched the whole thing unfold last night including the after show and it was clear that Mike Arrington spoke before he thought and didn't mean it to come out like people including Leo took it. I am glad that they both cooled down and realized it was a simple mis communication. Its too bad the crowd can't do the same. Mike Arrington may be a pain in the butt but pain in the butts are interesting. - Kim Landwehr

Jason, sorry, lost context. This is all my opinion. I can't speak for anyone else other than me. - Robert Scoble

Kim: bing! - Robert Scoble

"Arrington works his ass off, I've watched him as he's gone after a story. I can't do what he does." Doesn't make his insinuations right. I work hard and couldn't do what he does probably - but that doesn't mean he can act like a jerk - repeatedly according to some. - Mark Outten

I'm pretty sure the Techcrunch <-> Friendfeed comment sync was disabled a few days ago. Not sure it had anything to do with the dust-up yesterday. - Ken Sheppardson

Lise: I know why it happened. I understand that was building inside Leo over time. I get that. - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert, that really bugged me that Steve said he didn't care about the community. But I agree, he cares greatly about the show and the community. He wouldn't have been so hurt if he didn't. - Lise

i was blown away by the second episode of gg. it almost seemed like arrington was torn by who he had turned into, at least the negativity that resides within hm. - Tobias Lewsadder

It's probably just the mob he's upset with Lise. - Colin

I also agree with Kim. I enjoyed watching GG at 6:00 PM during the last hour of shift at work. I would still watch it as well as TWiT. - Jason Hansen

He was hurt by some of the comments, he also blamed Dave Winer for alot of problems - David Lloyd

Mark: who said he's a jerk? Sometimes we're all jerks. And, anyway, when he's being a jerk he usually is keeping it on the story. Not personal. He's taken lots of shots at me but has NEVER said that I should get cancer and die. That's unacceptable. - Robert Scoble

Vlad, okay and I agree with you that Mike should blow those comments off. I'm shocked he hasn't grown a thicken skin - Lise

I don't know Arrington personally, all I can judge him from is his body of work with TechCrunch and it's top notch. Anyone who criticizes him in a vicious way needs to look in the mirror. A lot of those with the harsh words are probably typing it from their parents basement. I just hate when people rip other people with a pretext of being something else when it's really jealousy. - Mike Bracco

Lise: it's always easy to say people should have a thick skin until you're the one at the center of a mob getting kicked in the groin. ;-) - Robert Scoble

Mike: bing! - Robert Scoble

Steve Gillmor clearly stated that he doesn't care about the audience. And that's that for me, Robert. Lise: I can see Steve cares about the show, and especially his brand inside the show. About the audience, he said it better than I ever could. Please believe the man. - Vlad Bobleanta

I think the Steve-Leo conflict (which was briefly obvious on the show) got totally overshadowed and subsumed by the Leo-Mike issue. - Nick in Manila

Robert's comment exactly. - Chris Charabaruk

Robert, true. I know I couldn't handle it. - Lise

Robert: You like Microsoft's new search engine. ;) - Jason Hansen

Vlad: you aren't listening carefully. I heard what Steve said yesterday and totally understood what he was saying. You can't let the audience drive your product. Ask a Porsche owner what they want and they'll say "more trunk space, smoother ride, more leg room, etc." They just designed a Volvo. - Robert Scoble

Robert: 100% agreed. I do not want to be in Mike's position, ever. - Vlad Bobleanta

Vlad: all of us in media care DEEPLY about the audience. If you hung around any of these people you'd know that we read every comment and take them very seriously. But the day you start listening to the audience and kowtowing to them is the day when you lose your way. - Robert Scoble

Robert: How does the mob get its "justice" then? I have not seen the venomous postings you speak of, nor do I agree in any way that that is the way to go. So, how does this get resolved? I, like many, believe Leo was being "entrapped". How does Arrington get out of this with his reputation intact? He's done alot for all of us and definitely does not deserve the level of hatred you speak of, but something need to be done... - Stuart Tracte

Stuart: most of the nastiest stuff has been deleted. - Robert Scoble

Make a good product and the audience will find you. - Kim Landwehr

Side note: Do not try to converse on FF on an iphone.... had a whole paragraph written out.... and lost it... - Stuart Tracte

I think Arrington and Leo will come out of this fine, I'm already paying more attention to both of them. - Colin

Stuart: you should go and listen to the second show we did last night. Leo wasn't entraped. And he didn't have to react that way. When people question my ethics I answer them calmly. I get questioned on that all the time. - Robert Scoble

Every week someone asks me if I'm paid by friendfeed, for instance. - Robert Scoble

Robert: I am listening, and I get your point. I never got Steve's attitude, though. And I was just spinning what he said, I did get the underlying meaning. - Vlad Bobleanta

(I'm not). - Robert Scoble

Tonights FF homework: listen to the full GG show to become better informed http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

i was in the middle of typing a comment on tech crunch last night when mike shut down the comments, how sad. he mentioned having to have a police car parked in front of his house in the past for similar issues... that is wrong!!! - Tobias Lewsadder

SCOBLE: totally agree! true innovation can't come from what the "flock" is saying they want. True innovators are so because they create something that no-one knew they needed until it is created. - Mike Bracco

Honestly, I suspect that every person who got really pissed at @arrington over the years but had decided to ignore him went back and told him what they'd thought of him all along. He's ruined companies and products on the grandstand. I read his stuff like I watch fox news, for the truth far from the middle but for clues of what might be left out on the sunny side. - Shava Nerad

Vlad: Gillmor is an interesting person. I don't always get him either. - Robert Scoble

Robert, still. I am that community that Steve supposedly doesn't care about. And that's where I almost did pump my fist in the air. When Steve said he didn't care and Leo instantly said he *did* care. But... again, I feel bad for Steve, still. His issue was just loss of control over his baby (the show) - Lise

Colin: Professionally, sure! This isn't any kind of permanent damage to either of them. Personally, though, I know that it's got to hurt them both. - Chris Charabaruk

Chris, I think they're both tougher now. - Colin

Shava: He's made many hundreds of companies too. I don't know of a single one that was ruined by TechCrunch. Please back that statement up. - Robert Scoble

Colin: You'd be surprised. Often the people who seem to have the thickest skin on the outside are the most sensitive on the inside. - Chris Charabaruk

Does Leo know any of this, btw? I think he thinks this is all over with...considering he was joking about it all. I think he's embarrassed and trying to make light of it. But I don't think it's over, unfortunately. - Lise

still watching. - jeneane sessum

If they were ruined by TechCrunch then I'd have to call that company pretty lame. Remember PodTech? Mike pointed out a lack of leadership at the company. In hindsight Mike was right. - Robert Scoble

Chris, but that outer skin just got thicker lol, I dunno, I just think it has to be a big lesson to both of them, they'll remember it. - Colin

Lise: I don't know what Leo is seeing right now. I should call him and check in. - Robert Scoble

I don't know about Mike, but Leo was already making fun of the incident on TWIT, realized their was a slight overreaction on his part - Kim Landwehr

Colin: Yes, they'll remember it. But that outer skin is just their media personalities. You're ignoring the real people behind those names, and how they feel about it. - Chris Charabaruk

I don't even believe that Mike was about to question Leo's ethics. He was just upset that they didn't get a Pre. And wanted to make a point about how Palm selects reviewers. I never questioned Leo's integrity. Neither Mike's. I think they'd be really stupid to endanger their careers like that. Which settles it for me. - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert: Will you pass him the link to this discussion? - Chris Charabaruk

I think yesterday was enough fanfare - I'm filing this in the "none of my business" stack - Bwana ☠ from IM

Wow...did not expect to learn this when I logged onto FriendFeed. - Ben Parr

Vlad: you weren't hearing Mike. Please go listen to the second show. He made it very clear why he was asking those questions. Mike asks me all the time about my ethics. It's his way of digging for stories. - Robert Scoble

Robert, you should. I hope they can work this out. It's definitely not smoothed over. Maybe between Mike and Leo but not all 3. - Lise

Bwana: But we need to know what every single person on FriendFeed thinks about the relationship between Leo, Mike, and Steve... did you miss the memo? - Ken Sheppardson

I'll say this again, but Leo's IRC chat was muted, and chatters spilled right onto FriendFeed. If you were reading the IRC chat at the time, it was 100% pro-Leo. Those people normally don't come on FriendFeed, but when they were muted, this was the first place they came to, because this is the 2nd largest chat Leo endorses. - Colin

Robert: That's his way of digging for stories... fine. However, is that something you would do to a respected friend? - Jason Hansen

Mmmyeah, Steve's issue was loss of control over the show. I get that. I've seen how awkward it was at times. But still. How old are these people again? - Vlad Bobleanta

Lise: that's true. Steve feels his show was stepped on needlessly. - Robert Scoble

Jason: All's fair in love and war... And in media. - Chris Charabaruk

Jason: in this business? Yes. I ask MYSELF all the time am I on the right side of the ethical line. And when someone is getting a goodie and I'm not, it sure does make me wonder WHY. - Robert Scoble

steve should host the show and he boot whomever he wants and not invite back guests he doesnt feel fit into gg. - Tobias Lewsadder

Tobias: I agree. Steve should be in charge of the off switch on his own show. - Robert Scoble

To run a show, you have to do what Leo does, you have to be able to control cameras and mics, and Steve really needs to get that kind of control, or Leo's operator needs to stay neutral, and out of it. - Colin

Tobias: Steve should take things offline for making the show, and then broadcast it afterwards, rather than doing it live. That might help reduce the bad attitudes it seems to bring out from its hosts and guests. - Chris Charabaruk

I do think Steve had a point, It is his show and Leo really didn't have the right to shut the show down, no matter how mad he was - Kim Landwehr

Robert: I would like to see the inner of the business for a week or two. It would be an interesting learning experience I'm sure. - Jason Hansen

Tobias: I think it was unprofessional for Leo to pull the off switch on someone else's show while on air. It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me if I were to host a show on his network. - Robert Scoble

out of interest. was leo, steve or arrington making money from GG? will this have business implications - Anthony Feint

Anthony: not yet, but whenever audiences get built around media properties there's always money involved eventually. - Robert Scoble

No Anthony, this was a Saturday, and people's free time. - Colin

Chris: Steve lives and breathes "live". - Nick in Manila

Nicholas: if I pissed someone off they should bite their lip and fire me after the show. That's professionalism. It also gives people a chance to explain themselves. When you're on air it's very difficult to discuss business in a professional way. - Robert Scoble

Robert: How much time has Leo spent on the air over the past 10 years or so? How many incidents like this have their been? Seems like you might literally be blowing it out of proportion, re "It makes me wonder how Leo would treat me" - Ken Sheppardson

Robert: I saw the show yesterday. Yeah, I know, my point was more that he was using the ethical question to start off his 'story' about Palm sending review units. Which is exactly what he said in part 2 of the show, when you were on too. And it's exactly what you kinda said. So let's agree to agree, even if my phrasing isn't phenomenal right now :) - Vlad Bobleanta

Robert: I gotta agree with Ken's last statement. - Chris Charabaruk

I like Mike, I really do, and I respect him, but he has to take some responsibility. Its not what he says, its how he says it, that rubs people the wrong way - Stephen Pickering

Ken: that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities. - Robert Scoble

The interesting thing for me was that about a month ago, on another TWiT show, Leo expressed some negative sentiment about Arrington and the way he sort of "stir things up" to try to get responses out of people. It was on net@nite I believe. Anyway, that is the first thing I thought of when this happened yesterday. - Mike Bracco

but was leo giving free bandwidth to GG? - Anthony Feint

Chris: I was one of Leo's "Laporteans" and have been a friend of Leo's before I even had a blog. I love the guy. - Robert Scoble

Anthony: yes, but again, if you are going to fire someone in media, or shut down someone else's show, you should do that off air. - Robert Scoble

Anthony: but maybe that's just me. - Robert Scoble

I thought the comments towards Mike yesterday were overwhelmingly positive after they both apologized. I gained a new respect for Mike yesterday. - Jesse Stay

Robert "that's not the point. Leo has always been on someone else's network. Now he's trying to build a network of his own. That requires a different set of sensibilities" That's why i made it a point to say Leo would be better off Not "Hosting" the GG but being a Out of Studio Guest - Erle Stride

Mike B, exactly, he was ready to be attacked by Mike. He said it himself. So he went overboard. - Lise

Scoble: Can't substantiate at the moment, so skip it as unsubstantiated, but I remember 2-3 times seeing what he said about something, and what others said, and thinking, he was just talking things down to be contrarian. It's like ValleyWag -- are you familiar with them? Thing is I rarely have read his stuff lately. I prefer constructive criticism over snark negativity, and that's the... more... - Shava Nerad

Anthony: I think Leo agrees there, too. He said he was wrong to shut down the show. - Robert Scoble

I think Leo shouldn't have stopped the whole show, after all it is Steve's show. However I can understand why he did. It seems to me he was never quite happy with GG on Twit from the beginning. Which is what he kinda admitted in part2. If the show were to stay on Twit, I think they should just get someone in the cottage to switch between cameras and stuff, and Leo should be a guest. In Steve's show. - Vlad Bobleanta

Shava: I've been on Valleywag more than 70 times. - Robert Scoble

I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs. - Jack

Vlad: I agree, and I think so does Leo and Steve. - Robert Scoble

Kevin: Leo's talked about what he dislikes in Mike's persona before, but this is the first time things really came to a head. - Chris Charabaruk

squarespace sounds interesting (still listening) - does put #squarespace in your tweet still enter you in the contest? - jeneane sessum

Robert: yeah I agree to...im just wondering where the shows going to go. ITs going to lose a big audience. I only watched because it was on twit and techcrunch - Anthony Feint

Probably not a good idea to be a guest and be in control of a show at the same time. - Kim Landwehr

Leo DOES have the right to pull the show it's HIS network That's why Steve got so Pissy Lastnight - Erle Stride

Really, he apologized, so shouldn't this be over if it's over between the two antagonists? But then this is the Internet. And yes, I figured you know Valleywag, but this is a general audience as well. A lot of folks don't overlap - Shava Nerad

Robert, don't you think this is a bit of a soap opera? - Jon Lebkowsky

Kevin: That exactly the way it appeared to this outsider. - Nick in Manila

Vlad, I think we all agree that Leo shouldn't have shut the show down. But I think removing Leo from his own network in his own studio is silly. Do you really think he's going to do this again? - Lise

Jon: of course! - Robert Scoble

Mike sounded so reasonable last night. He told Leo and Steve not to make any rash decisions about the show, I'm surprised he didn't apply the same wisdom to himself and yanked the TC account so fast - Stephen Pickering

Jon: of course this is all a soap opera. So is real life. - Robert Scoble

Shava: The thing is, even if this weren't the internet, all our talking heads would still be talking about this. It's like with any kind of media personality, new old doesn't matter. - Chris Charabaruk

Sigh. Okay. "Desperate Technorati." - Jon Lebkowsky

jeneane: No, Calacanis just asked that the listeners of TWiT do that to support the sponsors of the show. - Mike Bracco

Jeneane The contest starts on Monday. Details at squarespace.com/iphone - Vlad Bobleanta

Stephen: lots of us can see the sins in other people but can't see our own sins quite so clearly. Myself included. :-) - Robert Scoble

I'm not sure I agree that life has to be a soap opeat, but I have to agree that it often is. - Jon Lebkowsky

Arrington was treated terribly - no doubt. is this new for him? no. has he treated others terribly? yes. will deleting the account keep people from treating him badly? no. will it stop him from treating others poorly? i doubt it. we all act like jerks sometimes. some of us have a bigger audience when it happens. some of us get a lot more crap when we do it. the folks who get extra crap... more... - MikeAmundsen

Your right, I've got to learn to practice that on myself - Stephen Pickering

These guys could use some zazen. - Jon Lebkowsky

lol, Jon! - Shava Nerad

I guess I missed the terrible part on FriendFeed - TechCrunch or Digg or the TWiT chatroom, maybe, but it seemed to me FriendFeed was rooting for Mike by the end of that show. - Jesse Stay

Lise: Lol. Dunno, we'll see. - Vlad Bobleanta

i think this can be debated for days... perhaps finding a resolution should the direction here. - Tobias Lewsadder

Sad. The Techcrunch items were some of my favorite part of Friendfeed. And I seem to remember an issue Mike wrote about some weeks back that impressed me with non-tech issues he feels strongly about. I hope he comes back with the Techcrunch account because whatever else, a few of us think he's part of here. - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: I think the stuff that got TechCrunch to delete friendfeed came last night. - Robert Scoble

Which is sad because that was the only way I read TechCrunch before. Hopefully MG continues to share his posts. - Jesse Stay

MikeAmundsen: It only takes one dog to bite out your throat. Mike's lucky in this regard that it's a bunch of people screaming at him once or twice and then disappearing into the void, so much as this issue is concerned. When you have one person in a campaign against you for a long time, though, the damage is far worse than what this mob is doing to Mike. - Chris Charabaruk

Tobias: yeah, not sure there is a resolution. I hope everyone who listens to me and interacts on my behalf remembers that there's people involved here. - Robert Scoble

Mike Admundsen - you nailed it - Liza + = ?

I expect the friendfeed, if it was anything like this, was too fast and nasty to moderate, and when things die down he'll be back. I can see me doing that if things got fast and nasty - Shava Nerad

WWDC needs to hurry up and get here... many you guys are bored :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

If anyone wants a divergence from this serious talk, check out this CALACANIS AUDIBLE LOVE DANCE that I just recorded from today's TWiT - http://www.youtube.com/watch... - Mike Bracco

Mike kept saying that a bunch of FriendFeeders wanted to see him dead. I never saw those kind of comments. Were those kind of awful things said? - Stephen Pickering

I suspect they'll get over it. I've certainly had some emotional moments that led me to delete accounts and worse. - Jon Lebkowsky

Anyway, in a week we'll be back to talking about Apple's new iPhone. Bwana is right. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

Bwana, tis true lol, I'm excited to see what Santa will bring. - Colin

And got ove rit. - Jon Lebkowsky

Robert By the sounds of it - Erle Stride

Bwana: If only Palm had given more people Pre's the other day, we wouldn't be talking about this. ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

I'm with Leo - I don't think there will be a new iPhone - Jesse Stay

Yes, I will get the new Iphone!!!!!!! Yeah, I've been living with a Razor for two years, but I'm not excited about AT&T - Stephen Pickering

Stephen: yeah, but they weren't people who I recognized. Anyway, time to move on. If I ever participate in a Mob again, just kick me in the knees, OK? - Robert Scoble

Chris Patterson: AMEN. - Chris Charabaruk

h Leo and Steve feel the GG and TWiT don't belong together I just wonder who will be the first to pull the trigger - Erle Stride

well, you folks solve the problems of the world, I have to go feed folks dinner...:) Seeya later Jon! Nice to run across you. - Shava Nerad

OK, I will! heheheh - Stephen Pickering

Tking acct down does nothing to address issue - scoble, we'll kick you in knees if you mob - settles it! - Liza + = ?

Shava: I gotta go play with Milan who just woke up. Seeya! - Robert Scoble

http://friendfeed.com/tad... - iTad

Yay - saved by Milan, Scoble! - Liza + = ?

Tad: :) - Chris Charabaruk

And yet, a Friendfeed without Arrington is lessened. He was as much a part of Friendfeed as Scoble. Heck, it just doesn't seem like Friendfeed UNLESS you've got both Arrington and Scoble talking. - George Hall (Australia)

Deleting the FF account was an emotional reaction. I mean, think about it. Will that stop people over here talking about Mike or TC stuff? Of course not. So what's the point then? Just that Mike will never ever load FF again and therefore won't see some bad stuff being said about him? Sounds strange to me. I hope he changes his mind, because being less engaged with the audience is never good in my book. Trolls can be blocked. Bad stuff can be ignored. But to stifle what can be good conversations...why? - Vlad Bobleanta

robert could it be as simple as... arrington was a jerk, laporte overreacted in attempts to defend his integrity. both were at fault in one way or another. it is the job of the host of the show to end this all. steve needs to step up and ask everyone to drop it. - Tobias Lewsadder

Now you can't post comments to his last article on techcrunch, how cool is that? - GeorgeAris

Vlad: when people get beat up they don't always make smart decisions. - Robert Scoble

Hopefully Mike Arrington will come back to FF after a short time off, He will be missed - Kim Landwehr

Did someone make the techcrunch account again to save it for him? heh - Lise

Perhaps it's time we made an effort to make Mike feel welcome back here again. - George Hall (Australia)

Would there be agreement that this was out of character for Leo and is there anyone following this that hasn't lost it in a professional situation? I sure he meant what he said, although I'm also sure he regrets it happened and feels like an ass. - Jim Gablick

Tobias: Actually, if Steve can get the two of them in one room and shake hands and tell everyone together to lay off on the attacks, perhaps they might. It's a longshot but it could go a far way to making things better between them all, too. - Chris Charabaruk

Talking? I don't see Arrington as a talker...I see (saw) him as a sabre rattler and drama king. Unless there's controversy, he's not quiet. Finally, someone told him to shut the hell up for the tool behavior that's his M.O. Scob, if he couldn't stand the heat.... - C. Jason Mancebo

http://www.dramabutton.com/ - Karim

Karim: LOL> - Chris Charabaruk

+1 Karim - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert: Agreed. I understand. - Vlad Bobleanta

That drama button was hilarious Karim - Benjamin Taylor

Jason: I don't think Mike minded Leo going off on him so much. It's the aftermath of having the mobs kick him in the nuts that got to him, me thinks. - Robert Scoble

C. Jason: He's that too, but it is a talker. He does engage. And when he's not putting up that jerkface public persona, I'm pretty sure he's a nice, cool guy you can have drinks with. - Chris Charabaruk

i cant believe that we are actually discussing this. shouldnt we feel disgusted that someone felt attacked enough to cancel his account. jerk or not he is human - Tobias Lewsadder

agreed Scoble - Kim Landwehr

never been a fan of mob mentality myself... - George Hall (Australia)

Scob, I think it's cumulative. He's gotten away with ALOT of stirring the pot for a while and people just have had it. Be a contributor, or go away....but I certainly don't agree with the "death and cancer wishes"...that's completely unnecessary. - C. Jason Mancebo

Chris: Mike is always interesting. I was at a tech industry brunch this morning with him and he's always got an interesting conversation going on. - Robert Scoble

How does the saying go... "Live by the swarm, die by the swarm"? - Ken Sheppardson

Jason: then we're on the same side. Arrington gets to me once in a while too. He knows how to push my buttons as well and get me all wound up. But that also is how he gets stories before anyone else does. - Robert Scoble

Heck, Arrington's style created BUZZZ. So why treat him badly? - George Hall (Australia)

C. Jason: I'm a big jerk myself, on the outside, but that doesn't mean I'm not a sensitive and caring person on the inside. He's more than just his persona, he's an actual person too. Sometimes someone does have to come out and say "stop being such a dick" to me, and no doubt to him. But attacking en mass the way this mob [redacted] is doing, that's just not right. - Chris Charabaruk

Chris Patterson: LOL. Good one. - Vlad Bobleanta

George: Arrington has done something remarkable. We always talk about him. He doesn't always like what we're saying, but I told him this morning that he has created a media company that is doing interesting things and that he should worry about the day when we're not all mobbing on him for some reason or another. - Robert Scoble

I don't understand Arrington's defense. He's really nice, soft and fluffy on the inside even though he attacks you in public and calls out your integrity? He may have his own issues to deal with, but he's in the public eye and he should expect the wrath of the Internet to reign down when he pulls an asshat move like this one. How many times does he get to slip out of the antics he... more... - Eric - seven eleven

Maybe he read the Terms and Conditions here at FriendFeed and freaked out? - Kenneth Stein

George: that said, it's not always fun and games being the center of all that kind of attention. - Robert Scoble

+1 on Arrington getting stories before anyone else...when Friendfeed was down a few weeks ago, he was the only one who could provide info on why. Fastest news of that particular day. - George Hall (Australia)

I'm still not convinced we can strictly pin this on Leo fans...that video got dugg bigtime and when a mob forms, people come from everywhere - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert: Don't I know it. - George Hall (Australia)

Eric, does his actions, though, really warrant people to wish death upon him? (which is, apparently what he's upset about) - Lise

Chris Charabaruk: Let's just please not call them Leo fans anymore. A mob is a mob. I'm a Leo fan and was not part of any mob, ever. And I don't want that association to stick in my head. - Vlad Bobleanta

Chris, I'm sure he is, but too often, people need to hide behind their persona for whatever reason. His is the sabre rattler/pot stirrer...he went WAY too far insulting a pretty good guy's ethics. Not good, but certainly agree with the over zealous backlash..not good as well. I guess "you reap what you sew" is certainly valid - C. Jason Mancebo

Vlad: I'm also a Leo fan and I totally see your point. I'll edit that bit out... - Chris Charabaruk

Vlad, yes. I take offense to that whole Leo fans thing. I'm a huge Leo fan. I don't act that way. - Lise

RobertS: this seems so reminiscent of the January fracas in Europe. Why is it that Arrington engenders such anger in people (and i'm not talking about Leo here)? this isn't some cosmic joke on good ol' boy MIke Arrington. there's a lot of history here. there's a lot of anger that Arrington has exhibited over a long period of time. don't get me wrong, i feel badly for the man. but not... more... - MikeAmundsen

let him go. - Stalyn☂

Eric: integrity is something we should always ask of each other. I don't mind if you ask me those kinds of questions. I got a review unit of the Palm Pre too. You SHOULD be asking whether that biases my review in some way. Mike was mostly digging for a story yesterday, not attacking Leo. That's something you gotta know Arrington about. He was digging and got a reaction he wasn't expecting. - Robert Scoble

The internet is full of high octane evil. It waits for an opportunity such as this to wish death on a person. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert, I heard that yesterday, and Leo just popped off. Mike really didn't deserve this one, which you can hear. What upsets me now is that I can see he does personalize a lot of this stuff, which was really done by Leo's audience, and Leo's chat room has an audience I wouldn't wish on my worse enemy. I loved it when we started the FF chat so I wouldn't have to listen to Leo's immature... more... - Francine Hardaway

it seems like people who have been angered by mike at one time or another are using this as an opportunity to lay into him. - Tobias Lewsadder

No one deserves it - Bwana ☠ from IM

Francine: well said. - Robert Scoble

We had a good discussion yesterday at a tweetup in the city about the whole thing. I think MIke ABSOLUTELY deserved this one. It's been a long time coming. The whole backlash, not deserved, but not surprised. - C. Jason Mancebo

WHAT!!!? - Jason Pollock

C. Jason: if Mike was hiding behind his persona instead of showing the real self, he'd be blasting back at his detractors, not removing their comments and killing the old TC account here. - Chris Charabaruk

I don't think these are even people who were angered by Mike, it was just mob rule. And there's no such thing as an online conversation that's "a long time coming" and bad enough to make someone want to get away from being online. That shouldn't be the way we act. - Francine Hardaway

So Arrington and the other guy worked it out between themselves...so why should a mob stretch things any further? - George Hall (Australia)

Lise, you are absolutely right, that isn't right; no threats are necessary. I didn't see that here however. Not from the regular FF crowd that have regular activity, so I really didn't see that personally. - Eric - seven eleven

Chris: Mike wasn't attacking someone else's ethics. Listen carefully to both shows yesterday. He was asking questions. Leo took it too personally, me thinks (he thinks so too, in hind sight). If your ethics are really above reproach you can answer calmly and professionally. - Robert Scoble

Chris, I think he was hiding behind it in public and now is effected beyond the persona. - C. Jason Mancebo

Francine: very well said. - Vlad Bobleanta

Francine: agreed #2. Well said. - Robert Scoble

Geroge Hall correct. - Francine Hardaway

George: Mob mentality. 100 sheep on their own are perfectly fine, but if they freak out and charge in the same direction... - Chris Charabaruk

Francine: mobs can get out of control here in the real time web. Not sure how we can fix that. - Robert Scoble

Scoble, I gotta respectfully disagree with you. He was absolutely trying to make something out of nothing. Totally NOT ETHICAL! - C. Jason Mancebo

Well, you don't want to be in their way. - Chris Charabaruk

These things push my buttons because I see so much potential for good in the online community and I want the bad stuff to go away. I know that's unrealistic - Francine Hardaway

Eric, I didn't notice those either but I wasn't the one attacked and wasn't looking for those. Despite that, Mike saw it/felt it. That's the point. - Lise

Never liked mobs, never liked being on receiving end of them, never liked following any. - George Hall (Australia)

Making a story is not creating a story. Not cool! - C. Jason Mancebo

Jason: I can understand how you see it that way. DId you watch the second Gilmor Gang last night? Mike explained why he was asking those questions and Leo answered much more calmly. - Robert Scoble

I vote we try to help Mike feel wanted here again. - George Hall (Australia)

maybe leo should join us and ask people to lay off - Tobias Lewsadder

I'm going to email mike. - Francine Hardaway

Jason: personally the free stuff and review units and access DO bias our reporting and that's something that we SHOULD talk about calmly and professionally. Our audiences should hear our answers. I don't think Mike's question was one that shouldn't be asked. Of EVERYONE. - Robert Scoble

Robert, did you get a hold of Leo about this yet? - Chris Charabaruk

Scoble, I think it was prettied up for public consumption by both of them. Sure, Leo could have been better about it. Absolutely. But I just am not with you on that one. Agree to disagree on this. - C. Jason Mancebo

You should see the second show. You haven't seen that, you can't really get the gist of it. imho. - Vlad Bobleanta

This is not about Arrington but about much larger issues and tensions that are brewing - amt of comments is undeniable proof of that. - Liza + = ?

Robert Scoble, I understand your point. "If you only knew him..." I'm sure if I had a beer with the guy I'd grow to love him and all, but I haven't and all I have to go on is what I saw, and I can't side with M.A., not after his history with shooting first with his posts and comments. He really needs to put himself in the mind of the public that find a problem with his actions without... more... - Eric - seven eleven

Chris: and Mike, in the second show, explained why he was asking that. Techcrunch didn't get a review unit and his theory is that Palm is only giving review units to people who are saying nice things about Palm. - Robert Scoble

On the early access units, how in the hell is anyone (Scoble, McCracken, Ubergizmo) supposed to review anything early without early access units. It's not a gift, it's a loaner. - C. Jason Mancebo

Chris: I'm calling Leo now. - Robert Scoble

I think Leo was right in getting mad - Johnathan Schultz

Ask Leo to come in here - Lise

Come on guys. If you haven't watched the second show, you're blowing in the wind. - Nick in Manila

Leo should not have said such inflammatory things.. Even if he was pissed off he could have handled himself in a professional manner on the air - Jason Pollock

mike totally clarified himself and leo apologized for taking it the wrong way. - Tobias Lewsadder

A promoter is not a journalist. Much of what I see on TC, and here and elsewhere illustrates that YOU are buzzing things, creating hype which in part drives it forward. The coverage ought to be balanced though, and it's going to likely lead to unfortunate and unnecessary consequences. This might shed a bit of light on it. http://bit.ly/LfVJk - Kenneth Stein

Jason: I hate the review unit thing. Walt Mossberg got his weeks ago. - Robert Scoble

I guess nobody takes Sunday evenings with their families these days, eh? - Ken Sheppardson

Johnathan: Leo's anger was justified, yeah, but how he expressed it was a bit much. But how the way the mob took it as a call to action, that's bad. - Chris Charabaruk

I think it should be stressed that Leo can't be held responsible for anything anyone else says. On the irc chat, here wherever. - Vlad Bobleanta

It is really too bad the conversation went bad. Mike really did have some good questions to ask about how business ethics and free products review or not. He just started the conversation really badly - Kim Landwehr

leo's language on the air incited the hate comments that techcrunch got - Jason Pollock

HI Liza, well, I see it yes and no....this specific thing is a good example of "you don't get to be a shit stirrer and get away with it forever". - C. Jason Mancebo

Christopher: A mob is a mob, online or off. - Chris Charabaruk

Lise, getting threats like that is something no one should go through, I agree. People should act with civility. - Eric - seven eleven

Interesting post of Mike Arrington(The New York Times Sunday edition): The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism :http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... - Johni Fisher

On the AIR? Lol there's no FCC regulation yet....I'll refrain from scribing the 7 deadlies here - Kenneth Stein

Vlad: That's true, but he can still encourage them to act more responsibly. - Chris Charabaruk

J Abdul, I think the "what are you going to do about it" was still when Mike thought it was all kind of a joke - Lise

Scoble, it's not like they but a hundy in the package and say "review away" :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

No one's going to move on until there's something else to talk about ;) Come on WWDC! - Bwana ☠ from IM

Ken S, I just fired up the grill. Great day on the coast in HMB today. BBQ and wine happens soon :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

we all benefit from the work that mike does. tech crunch has been a daily read for me for years... although you may disagree with some of his methods, is wishing him death really appropriate - Tobias Lewsadder

C. Jason: They don't have to. Just having the thing before everyone else creates an incentive for acting non-ethically. After all, they give you a review unit (even one you need to return) because you gave them a good review might encourage you to keep giving good reviews for the opportunity to play with the latest gadgets first. - Chris Charabaruk

Chris: Yes, and I think he should. Let's just keep in mind, those are just random people who he probably never met. And in the case of the irc chat, are mostly anonymous. Which is part of the problem imo. - Vlad Bobleanta

Tobias, i think we all agree that the backlash has gone to far...yes, - C. Jason Mancebo

Actually, research idicates that being teased and taunted oftentimes is more painful than being hit. - Kenneth Stein

Who were these random people anyway? Friendfeed regulars, or blow-ins? - George Hall (Australia)

I agree, and i think this onslaught has gone on far enough - Johnathan Schultz

Time to man up Arrington. The storm's here and.... Oohh look, another iPhone rumor - Bwana ☠ from IM

George, I'm sure some were FF regulars. I don't think because you have a FF account it makes you of right mind. heh Unfortunately. - Lise

Just a computer engineer, patent attorney, developing some tech - Kenneth Stein

@George Hall: Gillmor Gang regulars. - Antoniu

People need to get a tiny bit of perspective instead of social media tunnel vision - Nathan Cooprider

One thing I would really like to see come from this is that folks like Arrington with the "Not quite so stringent, shoot first retract later" ethics understand that people give a shit about that and it's not cool. - C. Jason Mancebo

George Hall: mostly non-regulars, or that was my impression at least. But not exclusively. Arrington is easy to hate, that's the truth. And some people just need to hate something. Or someone. That is all. - Vlad Bobleanta

Its just feels like this has gone a little to far - Johnathan Schultz

Tobias, but I'm not sure that we wouldn't benefit MORE from TC if it was a bit less "NY POST" ish - C. Jason Mancebo

The whole evening Gilmore Gang put everything into context. It was really interesting, lots of questions and talking points raised regarding technology reporting, journalistic integrity and consumed content. Even a discussion about the GG show itself. It's unfortunate that a few people ran with the 1 minute clip and formed an opinion without looking at the whole day in context. - Benjamin Taylor

I want to make a quick statement, because this is how it seems to be framed here for some. Just because we are choosing to criticize him doesn't mean we are part of a mob or are threatening him. The debate should not be framed as Arrington versus bloodsucking Friendfeed mob. There is no defense for threats, online or off. No one is debating that that I have seen. - Eric - seven eleven

@Johnathan Schultz: It has, but what are us bored geeks with too much time on their hands to do? - Antoniu

jason: agreed - Tobias Lewsadder

Scoble, pretty great day on the coast for an Arrington discussion, no :-) - C. Jason Mancebo

I do have to say that this whole incident is the reason I've came over to FF permanently. - kenneth glenn

Benjamin: agreed. Eric: death threats is a mob in my book. Noone is referring to criticism, but rather to threats and mindless stuff. - Vlad Bobleanta

anyone know arrington for an extended period of time? has he always been like this? - Tobias Lewsadder

Vlad, right, death threats are wrong, but that doesn't make me or anyone here criticizing this incident as part of the mob. - Eric - seven eleven

shiftoptionk - that is the core of the issue :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

I think that many people just took the opportunity to join in on the "I hate you Arrington" bandwagon when that started yesterday. Today they're all probably busy in Google Reader (even though RSS is apparently dead) reading the latest TechCrunch posts. - Antoniu

I seem to remember a techcrunch article Mike did weeks back about a different issue...one where he took a principled stand. I wonder if non-regular mob making threats relates more to that than the Gilmour gang thing. - George Hall (Australia)

We're reaching again. Terrifying mobs? Where did that come from? He was getting abused, wasn't seeing any real poing to sharing stuff here, so he deleted the account. It makes his life easier. We're sorta going off the deep end... once again. - Ken Sheppardson

@Christopher No one wants to read death threats about themselves. Real or otherwise. - Glenn Trtanj

bwana: elaborate please - Tobias Lewsadder

shiftoptionk - it was a buildup. This is how Arrington is. Leo got tired of it. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Some days you can take it, some days you blow up - Bwana ☠ from IM

afterwards, they made up..but you can believe Arrington will do it again - Bwana ☠ from IM

Bwana, absolutely agree...lots of folks obviously tire of it. - C. Jason Mancebo

i know he has been like this for a while but im askking if this was the type of guy he was before getting into this business or has the business changed him - Tobias Lewsadder

Ken: This is yet another overreaction, yes. This weekend is really something. However some people do take bad things very personally, and maybe Mike is one of them. Dunno, I haven't met him. - Vlad Bobleanta

Personally, I think TechCrunch on FriendFeed is better as a room anyway. It enforces the separation between a person and their business. That said, I do hope that Mike comes back, and that everyone behaves civilly when he's around. - Chris Charabaruk

Excuse me, but if Arrington didn't say anything that stirred the pot, it'd be boring in here - George Hall (Australia)

optionshiftk - that I don't know - Bwana ☠ from IM

George: Damn right. - Chris Charabaruk

And I would ask, on a different note, if someone called out you're ethics in the work that puts food on your table in front of everyone at your place of work, plus or minus 50,000 people, how would you react? With anger I bet. - Eric - seven eleven

I have a shiny drama button here for those that are bored - Bwana ☠ from IM

We need something like http://instantrimshot.com that automatically generates FF drama. - Ken Sheppardson

@George Hall (Australia): Indeed, gives us something to talk about until tomorrow. People just seem to be over analysing all of this. - Antoniu

Chris, I don't agree with your logic on early access = incentive for ethical problems. Lot's of folks get early stuff. The only issue that I see is lots of FALSE POSITIVE reviews by lot's of up and comers...but not the Leo Laportes of the world. - C. Jason Mancebo

And for those that want real drama, please refer to the french fry vs onion rings vs tater tots debate: http://ff.im/3H1oA - Eric - seven eleven

If anyone thought Friendfeed was JUST Robert Scoble, they missed half the point. It was equal amounts Scoble AND Arrington. The thrust and parry of the differing viewpoints sometimes. - George Hall (Australia)

cstechcast - Yeah, some people think it's excusable because it's "interesting" and it's entertaining. I don't, but that doesn't change the situation though. I never liked the way Arrington did his thing, but I doubt he cares and I doubt it'll affect his career. - Bwana ☠ from IM

Eric: no. And Leo wouldn't have done it angrily if it wasn't for the feeling that he was being Mike's target. When you get questioned, you keep your cool and explain. Leo said exactly this tonight. - Vlad Bobleanta

C. Jason: A false positive review IS an ethical violation, BY VIRTUE OF BEING FALSE. - Chris Charabaruk

George, Arrington was really never on Friendfeed. He was not active here. - Eric - seven eleven

His account was. - George Hall (Australia)

posted some thoughts on this in the longer post here http://friendfeed.com/parisle... - MG Siegler

and he was a part of Robert' - George Hall (Australia)

s best posts. - George Hall (Australia)

Vlad, that is the logical thing to do, but that would not be most people's gut reaction. - Eric - seven eleven

MG: Well played. - Chris Charabaruk

You can't be putting feelings before facts, I like facts. - Colin

Arrington wasn't sitting around on FF all day, but he was here. There were several comments from him over the past few days. - Ken Sheppardson

Colin: Sure you can put feelings before facts. If you couldn't, politicians would be out of work. ;) - Chris Charabaruk

I got along just fine on FriendFeed without Arrington - but that's not really a big thing - Bwana ☠ from IM

We all have to step away at times... I wouldn't delete my account, but I'm not Mike Arrington - Bwana ☠ from IM

Scoble, have you seen MA's comments on TC? He's admitting to saying "We were promised one but it wasn’t delivered" but the comments are targeted at LL, not at Palm. That's completely shit stirring. Just not necessary. - C. Jason Mancebo

that's why I'm not trying to understand his POV ...or Leo's... it's their business - Bwana ☠ from IM

Bwana, I agree, we talk about this and I guess it's proof stirring the pot gets you your celebrity. Next stop, reality show. - Eric - seven eleven

bingo - Bwana ☠ from IM

it's all one big drama button until WWDC ;) - Bwana ☠ from IM

Well that's my hokmah moment for the day, I'll be over here watching the game - Bwana ☠ from IM

I agree with @Bwana but this happens everytime Mike thinks he's going to read something he doesn't like..just as right before he deleted TC's friendfeed account. We may not know him as a person but his actions have always preceeded him. - John Blanton from twhirl

Just talked with Leo. He hadn't realized this was all still cooking, but admits that people have said some really horrid things. - Robert Scoble

J Abdul, I completely disagree. Of course you can say that in jest. You can even, as Mike assumed, throw F bombs at someone... in jest. - Lise

Now that he does know, I hope that he'll come out and say something about it, see if he can put the whole matter to rest finally. - Chris Charabaruk

When I called Leo he answered "are you calling me on your Pre?" Ahhh, the fun we have behind the scenes. ;-) (I wasn't, my Pre is charging). - Robert Scoble

i think leo is focused on wwdc - Tobias Lewsadder

Big tech boys and their toys...and the surrounding jealousy :) - Bwana ☠ from IM

Robert, you still haven't done anything with that Pre, my god! Aren't you curious to play with it? heh - Lise

On twit earlier he was laughing and thought it had all blown over - Jack

Lise: I took some pictures on it today and will do a writeup later. - Robert Scoble

Jack: yeah. I told him these were aftershocks like what happens after a big earthquake. - Robert Scoble

i saw that it syncs with itunes... does it sync calendar and address book thru itunes or thru isync? - Tobias Lewsadder

Anyway, I gotta go, otherwise Maryam is gonna go off on me in public and that won't be fun either. ;-) - Robert Scoble

Robert - just don't walk off of her show! - jeneane sessum

Cya Robert! - Chris Charabaruk

Robert, see ya. Can't wait to hear about the Pre! - Lise

Calacanis made a joke on Twit today when Leo began talking about the Pre, my senses stepped up and became more sensitive for a second there. - Colin

later scoble - Tobias Lewsadder

I was hoping he would set the record straight. It's hard to counter a 90 second youtube clip and the hour follow up with Arrington yesterday isn't widely availible. - Jack

I suspect readers/viewers would have hated the vast majority of reporters from Benjamin Franklin on if they saw the man behind the news then, the way we often can now. Journalism isn't a gentile profession. If you don't want arrogance, then go get your news from a convent. Otherwise, expect and accept that these people are who they are and, for the most part, you get higher quality, more hard hitting news because of it. So appreciate that Arrington is an arrogant ass and leave him alone. - Dawn

Robert here's the thing .. we're all huge fans of Leo and how can we not have something to say about this for good or for ill? - John Blanton from twhirl

Robert's original point was that Arrington copped a tremendous amount of mob attack including threats to Arrington. Sounds interesting for what was essentially a small and resolved issue between him and Leo. I have to wonder if the mob were actually Facebook hategroups pretending to be friendfeeders, since Mike did write an article on Techcrunch about the fact Facebook allows hate groups a say. - George Hall (Australia)

Gee,that quietened everyone. Is the silence the sound of people thinking? - George Hall (Australia)

So... how long until we get a Laporte/Christian Bale mashup? - Jack

I was just thinking about the earthquake analogy...is it a force of nature, if it were not for this thread, would we be talking about this? - Benjamin Taylor

I think most folks walked away after they realized that Robert actually did go AFK to spend time with his family. - Chris Charabaruk

Jack: LOL. - Chris Charabaruk

In real terms, it's Arrington's job to create buzz and pot-stir. So is that a reason for him to get such a mob reaction and threats? No. - George Hall (Australia)

And if there's one thing that won my respect for him it was that stand he took weeks ago on that Facebook issue. - George Hall (Australia)

While Arrington might have expected a backlash from Facebook users, here was where he least expected it. - George Hall (Australia)

Speaking of mob in a gentler way...does everyone HAVE to go quiet when Robert leaves the conversation? - George Hall (Australia)

angrykeyboarder: why was FF never meant to be used like Robert uses it? He gets some interesting conversation going. - George Hall (Australia)

Most people are probably here looking for Scoble's attention, and want him to respond to them personally. - Jack

Robert also feels strongly about what happened to Mike, as for whatever else, they're friends. And he's allowed to defend his friend. - George Hall (Australia)

angrykeyboarder: Discussion is EXACTLY how FriendFeed is supposed to be used. I don't see a blog post here. I see Robert starting a conversation, and contributing his two cents here and there. - Chris Charabaruk

George, haha I went quiet when Robert left. I just assumed the whole thing would go quiet. Plus, you know Robert can keep a conversation going. - Lise

+1 Chris. - George Hall (Australia)

I wonder if Robert hopes we'll keep a thread going without him once in a while. - George Hall (Australia)

George: LOL, probably. - Chris Charabaruk

George: yes. :-) - Robert Scoble

LOL - Lise

If anyone hasn't heard part 2 of the Gillmor Gang it's here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

Angrykeyboarder: this IS my blog on the topic. :-) - Robert Scoble

+1 Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

People who know Mike: Do you think he'll cool down and come back to FriendFeed? - Bruce Lewis

What a wknd ..sooo strong feelings - Johni Fisher

I hope Mike DOES come back. I miss his feeds already. - George Hall (Australia)

I stopped reading TechCrunch some time last year, but started following it on FriendFeed after Mike's month in Hawaii. My impression is that depth/quality has gone up. Not that I did a scientific study or anything. - Bruce Lewis

Woah, I thought I was going to have to ask the question, but it seems the impression I got is coming out in the end. I felt certain that Leo had learned from the past to recognize the Arrington pattern, and that he saw some familiar threads and immediately kicked the loom out of the weaver's hands. In my reading of past things that don't even involve Leo, Arrington's been a subject of... more... - MiniMage

Intellectual or professional disagreement doesn't have to mean personal disagreement. While I'd disagree on some of Mike's points, I have nothing against the man personally. And there's still a fair amount of stuff he's written I DO agree with. The Facebook hate group article for one. That shows Mike has principles. - George Hall (Australia)

Thanks for that audio link, Jack... and Robert, I haven't blogged much lately either, but I did in this case... without hearing part2 first! - Richard Walker

People disappoint. I am no fan of Mike Arrington's, but I wish him no ill either. To have even one person wish him cancer or otherwise is just awful. With that said, I no longer buy the "he's a sensitive guy" routine. He's either a tough guy or he's a victim, and the victim seems to emerge when he's wrong. He has the power. He has the attention. He wields it. By his own admission, his... more... - Karoli

lol @Matthew - Louis Simoneau

Fortunately, wishing cancer on someone is not going to make it happen. I could stand right next to Arrington, shut my eyes really tight and mentally chant "get cancer" for hours, and the only result would be indesputable proof of my utter stupidity. I'd have to laugh at the goofball who expressed such a sentiment. I would expend actual thought processes on the ones who wished for bodily harm, because those folks might bump into Arrington at a floor show or before or after a session at a conference. - MiniMage

found this link at the same time I was listening to this: http://bit.ly/2nhNLw via @arrington and Leo afterword. Didn't see the link, apologies if it's already been posted. - motownmutt

I'm not sure why people hate Mike so personally, it's ok to disagree with him but Mike and TechCrunch seams to have a lot of hate aimed at them for no apparent reason. - DarknessFalls

motownmutt: thats a direct link to the second part of the show. It's from the "bootleg" feed (read:only feed) which includes the first part of the show, as well as last weeks show, and older shows: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

Actually, it's already resolved between Leo and Mike anyway. And that's really where it should have stayed anyway. Resolved between those concerned. Doesn't need mob commentary afterwards, doesn't need threats to Mike, doesn't need the bullsh**. - George Hall (Australia)

I've been hiding all of these entries about Mike and Leo. I decided to read yours Robert because I know you. Here are some of my thoughts. First, I don't know either Mike or Leo and have never been influenced by either one of them. Second, I love listening to Leo's shows but cannot stand TechCrunch and the attitudes on that site. Third, Mike was the first (and only) person I... more... - LPH™ and his dog P™

@DarknessFalls, I think it was said that some people hold Arrington responsible for the failures of their ventures. He gives his opinion, & people listen (I think). If someone's project didn't make sense to Arrrington, and he said as much, it could hurt. Could the people in this flap be a different group? I hope so. @LPH: Interesting take you have there. You're saying the very post that I thought allowed Arrington and Leo to patch things up actually caused his problem with those who weren't involved? - MiniMage

LPH: Actually, Mike contributed in other ways. With the things he'd say to Robert, he'd get some real discussion moving anyway. And I liked his feed. Some of the best things I "liked" were Arrington's feed items. Mike didn't contribute? You mustn't have been paying attention. I'm sure Robert can tell you how Mike contributed in quieter, less noticeable ways to the discussions and other things. - George Hall (Australia)

I don't think channeling through Scoble is actually contributing...maybe that's just me. - Bwana ☠

BoringMage: Some people holding it against Arrington for pointing out major flaws in their products meant their products were flawed. People like Arrington voicing concerns can help them improve or come out with better. Sometimes a harsh critic can be your best friend. If what he says helps you come out with better. In which case, I think Mike was still in the right to voice concerns. - George Hall (Australia)

Palm, at the moment, really needs to have the Pre being a hit. But there's some design flaws in the hardware they're going to need to correct fast. That's a valid point. Otherwise I can see them being sued for having edges on the phone so sharp people can injure themselves. - George Hall (Australia)

I would like to know, in 100% honesty, how many people heard part 2 before commenting, including the apology? I admit - I did not hear it until a few minutes ago. Anyone want to chime in? - Liza + = ?

Bwana: sometimes, the greatest contributor is the one who sets things up for someone to kick a goal. - George Hall (Australia)

And, when Scoble's back in this discussion, I'm sure he'll tell people how much Arrington DID contribute in a quiet way. - George Hall (Australia)

@GeorgeH: I think what you said is exactly what the person who said Arrington was blamed for others' lack of success was trying to convey. Since I haven't done anything worthy of Arrington's notice, I wouldn't be trying to lay any blame at his feet, nor would I criticize him for pointing out problems, at least not if he let the organization know and gave the organizers a chance to address those concerns. @Liza: I listened to both and read the TC post yesterday. - MiniMage

Not sure what the big deal is on the TC FF account really is. Seemed like nothing but the TC RSS feed being piped into FF for likes and comments. - Rolf Schewe

Two ways to look at how a tech blog criticizing your product affects you. On a non-personal way, they show you you have a flaw. Whether privately telling you or publicly telling you, they're making you aware of it. If you take it personally, you don't improve your product, you just lash out at the messenger. - George Hall (Australia)

People from all types of disciplines follow the Tech Industry. Tech Industry Reviewers become brands that often influence our decisions as trending consumers to become early adopters of new products and services. The most popular brands will always receive benefits from the companies such as freebies, pre-release models, and exclusive (or first opportunity) interviews. The public... more... - thestaticfrost

Thanks for answering my question @boringmage - I was not sure what to think but wanted to see others' rationale, so I followed the stream. I had seen so much noise about it but not the audio part 2. This reshapes the reasoning. - Liza + = ?

George: he sure participated more here than Kara Swisher or Walt Mossberg. At some level, though, friendfeed is an aggregator and people deserve participation credit just for putting their feed in here. - Robert Scoble

At the moment I don't get paid for doing a tech review on my own blog. I simply look at the fact it does help if I've used or played with the thing I review. For the most part, I'll point out its good features. But where it has areas to improve, I'll also point those out, too. But someone feels they're going to complain because I point out one or two areas need something a tad better???? - George Hall (Australia)

Thanks for validating how much Mike did contribute, Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

The other part of this whole thing that bothers me is how Steve has been characterized as this guy who doesn't care about his listeners. If he didn't care about his listeners, he'd produce a show just like every other show out there. Instead he chooses to focus on what he views as important for his listeners to hear. He's been right far more often than he's been wrong, by the way. - Karoli

Geez, wonder if mainstream media ever gets this much discussion these days as much as this one show did. - George Hall (Australia)

If comments in here were ratings, the Gilmore Gang would be a number one show. - George Hall (Australia)

Perhaps it's time to get Gilmore Gang on a mainstream media channel... - George Hall (Australia)

George: Mainstream Media talks this way about themselves so they can justify their existence. - Owen Greaves

Liza, I heard most of the post drama drama today on live.twit.tv on a repeat. Gilmore certainly was upset as well. Seemed to take the whole thing pretty personally as well. Not sure how that has turned out. - Eric - seven eleven

Sid: I would love an Internet-wide identity system. But that is really hard to do and get everyone to participate in. - Robert Scoble

He deleted the account because he can't control the conversation. - Jim Posner

Oh no; then you'd see my spelling mistakes in realtime - Jack

@l0ckergn0me: I'm hoping to learn something so I can be half as big as you one day and not make the same mistakes that others make so publicly for me. So if I have something wrong, by all means correct me! [edit: I know you like helping people; help me! ;) ] - MiniMage

As an pretty unbiased 3rd party, I am wondering why so few responded to listening to part 2 on audio. I know I am not 'relevant' to the crew, but it is a fair question. - AND re: why is it interesting - EXACTLY, it is not interesting except that so many are interested, so as a curious person, I want to understand it. - Liza + = ?

Gee, imagine doing any reviews or critiques of any product if you felt constrained for pointing out it had a flaw or if you saw products to review given ONLY to those writing JUST good things. - George Hall (Australia)

Liza: the problem is the youtube video is 90 seconds long and the part 2 is over 1 hour - Jack

people dont have the patience to sit through that. Compare 112 thousand views, to 2 thousand clicks (so far) on the bit.ly link: http://bit.ly/info/2nhNLw - Jack

Jack - fair enough, but this is a 4 HOUR STREAM -and for some really strong opinions, if I were an "influencer", I sure would not say something w/o doing my research - Liza + = ?

That's exactly the problem here. Both you and I wouldn't give our opinions without the full picture. But the so called "influencers" just mouth off without doing the proper research, like the "problem" with blogging where unsubstantiated claims and heresay is published. - Jack

Is that like what M.A. does frequently? - C. Jason Mancebo

Actually, I think Arrington does do his research. - George Hall (Australia)

That wasn't directed at Mike at all, he's an excellent blogger - Jack

+1 Jack. Mike does excellent blogs - George Hall (Australia)

George, I have to disagree. He's much more of a shoot from the hip and retract later if I get called on it type of guy. Tthe truth or the facts are good, but only if it's interesting and gets him some buzz. - C. Jason Mancebo

Perhaps it's more like being accused of rape then vindicated, people wil only remember the more sensational story. - Jack

Not directed at Michael or anyone in particular. I asked a simple question, who listened to part 2 audio and few answered. Not directed at anyone. - Liza + = ?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it was interesting to hear Leo realize what the Gillmor Gang is really about in this second part: I always had the impression, especially after yesterday's second part, that Leo had never heard the show before letting it on his network. "Oh right you chat with Scoble, Calacanis, Arrington, Doc Searls et al, sounds good I'll host it"; unaware of the drama that occurs. Thoughts? - Jack

Liza, I think it might be a little late to expect a flood of comments. This is natural around here. - Eric - seven eleven

Who says geeks and nerds are dull? - George Hall (Australia)

Those who are not geeks/nerds :) - MiniMage

@Jack: At first I couldn't figure out where you got that impression, but now I wonder if you're talking about the part where Leo was (if I recall correctly) saying to Steve that he got the impression that what was happening in the show wasn't what Steve wanted happening in the show, and when he was asking him what he wanted to do about it (with someone saying it doesn't have to be discussed right there in public). Is that what you're referring to? - MiniMage

If I had already been physically assaulted (spit on), had my family threatened, and then had a mob of people come after me online - deleting an account on a social network probably would be a quick decision. - Matthew McCowan

I mean that Leo was expressing his concern over the high amounts of drama on the show, which he disliked and thinks can be advoided, to which Steve and Robert explained was inevitable and part of the show. - Jack

I need to go listen more, methinks. Just not tonight. Gotta be at work in 8 hours. I can seriously understand not expecting drama, though. - MiniMage

I predict GG moves over to Mahalo. - Jim Posner

Oh, wait, I forgot that screaming, mean vlogger guy is on that show; of COURSE there will be drama! - MiniMage

Jim: that actually seems like a good fit for the show. i personally think steve should find a way to host it so he can have full control. - Tobias Lewsadder

Could also be an interesting get for B43. - Jim Posner

Reminds me how silky things can get over objects/tech. In Australia you can get fist fights over Ford and Holden (GM) - George Hall (Australia) from BuddyFeed

The show has been very different since it came to Twit. Much more tamed down. This week was almost a return to form, except that Leo ended the show. One of my favourite pre twit shows was when all the other hosts were laying into Scoble for wasting a year of his life on Friendfeed. He was right in the end of course, but the confict that sparks heated debates is why I started listening to the show. - Jack

Guess it's never boring, then. - George Hall (Australia)

It's a shame he felt he needed to. It's a bad decision which is an unfortunate one. - James Stratford

Robert I got to agree w/you on Techcruch. Did u read about: TechCrunch's Notes | The Morality And Effectiveness Of Process Journalism http://ff.im/3HS0e - polou/indigo_bow

Ryo: A few months down the track you'll probably be playing with a crunchpad. And you'll be thinking it a nice piece of tech...but are you going to throw it away when you realize Arrington's associated with it? There are trolls and there are trolls. I don't think Arrington was a troll. Pot-stirrer yes. Troll no. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: I totally disagree with you. Techcrunch has helped many many companies launch and provides a valuable service in getting lots of people to pay attention to the tech industry. Arrington is far far from a troll. Is he a jerk sometimes? Yes. But just being hard to live with does NOT make one a troll and neither does bringing up a good argument once in a while. But to try to claim that that's all Techcrunch does is simply false and I won't let it stand in the comment thread that I started. - Robert Scoble

Makes me wonder if Ryo knows who defaced Arrington's wikipedia page... - George Hall (Australia)

the ip addresses are there in the history George - Chris Heath

Hope Wikipedia rectifies it. - George Hall (Australia)

Arrington really opened up a lot in that conversation with Leo. I think his explanations there really explained a lot on why he has to wear a thick skin and act the way others perceive at times. The way he manned up and apologized to Leo I think was very impressive. I will forever see him in different eyes now - I really respect Arrington since yesterday. - Jesse Stay

And Robert, have you consoled Tina yet? she seemed pretty down in here recent tweet: http://friendfeed.com/tinagil... - Chris Heath

Jesse, me too - Chris Heath

There's a few of us who have a lot of respect for Arrington and his principles. - George Hall (Australia)

George, a few million you mean, right? - Chris Heath

Robert: If Mike Arrington feels THAT strong about 'the mob' - why didn't he delete his Twitter feed too? Could it be the hundreds of thousands of followers he has been 'gifted' because of his 'special relationship' with the Twitter guys? - Jim Connolly

That too, Chris. You probably have a better idea than me of exact numbers. - George Hall (Australia)

It's sad too that all this fuss over a mere misunderstanding in a show gets so out of hand, because it affects the families, too. Sad because it's sorted out between Mike and Leo, but a whole bunch of people outside of it take things too far. Seriously, nobody had any right to make threats to Mike. - George Hall (Australia)

I just hope everyone can forgive and can move on with good stories and news. - Darren Lowery

Ryo: That's you. Me, I'm itching to own a crunchpad. - George Hall (Australia)

The Tech News Blog (when do we get to know your real name?) I'm sure he looked at the results he was getting, and I'm 100% sure he was seeing night and day results better on Twitter than FriendFeed. I'm sure he weighed his losses, and FriendFeed wasn't worth the negative brand image when compared to the traffic he was getting. Mike's a business man - I highly doubt it was anything personal. - Jesse Stay

I really cannot understand all this vehemence against Arrington. Neither can Robert, either, nor a fair few Friendfeed regulars. And Ryo, I really do not understand where your vehemence towards him comes from. - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: My name only changed here a few days ago, it's Jim Connolly - full contact details here http://jimsmarketingblog.com/contact... FriendFeed has not given Arrington a negative brand image - he did. - Jim Connolly

Ryo, to understand him I think you really have to put yourself in his shoes. He's had a whole lot of people be jerks to him. I'm sure that would get to you. - Jesse Stay

Jesse: So, if he's so worried about what the mob are saying about his brand, why isn't he worried about his brand on Twitter? - Jim Connolly

Guess you didn't read the right articles, Ryo. - George Hall (Australia)

Jim, I'm sure he couldn't afford to lose Twitter - that's my guess. FriendFeed I doubt was doing much for him, at least in his eyes. - Jesse Stay

Ryo, would I be an asshole for having something against hate groups? And if I did, would you still be saying it's my fault for *insert whichever reason*? - George Hall (Australia)

Jesse: I have no problem with him leaving FriendFeed, I just call bullshit on him suggesting it was the mob that drove him out. If it was the mob, he would have left Twitter, where they are REALLY attacking the guy. For the record, as a Tech News blogger myself, I have a lot of respect for what he has achieved. - Jim Connolly

Many people on the Interwebs are idiots--just look at nearly any YouTube comment! I'm not sure I buy that Arrington is that sensitive about how people have reacted--he's an Internet professional and he more than anyone should understand these outrageous, hate-filled comments are just a bunch of blowhard a-holes. That being said, Arrington had an opportunity to stop Leo and clear the... more... - Paul Salzman

Paul: I know Mike and talked with him at length this morning, both on phone and face to face. He's actually pretty sensitive, but puts on a tough face. It's an interesting part of his personality to see. - Robert Scoble

Ryo: do you buy Apple products? Jobs is a bigger jerk than I've seen Arrington ever be. Ryo: name one newcomer Arrington destroyed. Just one. I'd love to hear his/her story. - Robert Scoble

The Tech News Blog: good point about Twitter. I think Arrington likes that he has half a million followers there while me and Leo have been kicking his ass here on friendfeed (I was kicking his ass on Twitter too, before Twitter added him to the recommended follower list, which zoomed him above me and Leo). - Robert Scoble

TechCrunch leaving Friendfeed is sad, because even when we disagree with each other, it is nice to have a discussion going. - Mike Chelen

Robert: I know about you and Leo kicking is butt on Twitter before the recommended list started. (I have been chatting with you on Twitter for well over a year now!) - Jim Connolly

Robert: Re Twitter followers, seen this from earlier: http://www.thetechnewsblog.com/2009... - Jim Connolly

On Twitter Mike's personal account http://twitter.com/arrington has a mere 5 thousand followers, it is the TC account with 680 thousand, whilst on FF he had his personal twitter as well as TC feeding in. See the google cache here: http://209.85.229.132/search... - Jack

The Tech News Blog: engagement levels on Twitter are interesting, agreed. I've seen the bot behavior too. Twitter's team seems unconcerned. Ryo: it's bullshit to say you were destroyed by TechCrunch. If anything getting Arrington to say negative things about you focuses the world's attention on you and people (especially his competitors) rush to check out whether or not he's correct. If he wasn't right, that guy would have gained even more followers. - Robert Scoble

Jack: the TC account used to be Mike's personal Twitter account before that account got added to the recommended follower list. Now he's used that just to stream TC links. He used to have conversations with lots of us on Twitter in the old days using that account. - Robert Scoble

It's ironic, though, that getting half a million people to follow you means you can't even get 10,000 people to follow your other account. The engagement isn't there. Getting engagement is much more difficult than most people understand. - Robert Scoble

Ryo, have you ever considered that the example you've just quoted probably didn't have a great product to begin with, or may have had stuff that really needed more work? If the product's good, no blogger with influence would really affect things. But if he points out a potential product needs major work or is complete crap, go get the product right and stop blaming messengers like Arrington. - George Hall (Australia)

George: exactly right. I totally bashed Amazon's first Kindle. it still sold very well because it did have real value (it just was designed poorly). The Amazon team was never as nice to me after that, but I know people who bought it after watching my review and deciding I was wrong about the device, so in the end, I'm pretty sure I helped them out more than I hurt them. A great product withstands all criticism. - Robert Scoble

Exactly, Robert. - George Hall (Australia)

I'm going to have to take issue with you there Robert. Respected reviewers CAN affect the success of a product. That's why we must demand that they review ethically and thoughtfully. - invariant

Ryo, sounds like you didn't hear the aftermath gillmor gang session on saturday http://ia311238.us.archive.org/3... - Chris Heath

Don't forget about the first part: http://www.archive.org/downloa... Mike spoke very kindly about Rajeev Motwani before the shouting began. - Jack

Friendfeed is better than Twitter, yet he wants to stay with Twitter, COZ its driving traffic to his blog and nothing else - Michael_techie

invariant: we can have some impact, yes, but if only one person is picking on something and is picking on something wrongly it can often have the opposite effect. A good product WILL stand up to Mike Arrington or anyone else for that matter. - Robert Scoble

well what he said after in the second session was serious too - and he claims the pre stuff was in jest and misunderstood - Chris Heath

Chris: he didn't quite say "in jest" but that he was trying to point out that Palm sends review units to those who have given Palm a good set of PR over the last few months. He might actually have a point there but that point was lost both because Arrington started pushing Leo's buttons and because Leo responded to that with an outburst that I haven't seen Leo do ever (and I've been following Leo since the mid 1990s). - Robert Scoble

right robert... but the 'what are you gonna do about it?' he claims was in jest - Chris Heath

Chris: yeah. That's just Mike being Mike. He does the same thing with me to try to push my buttons. Sometimes he succeeds with me too. ;-) - Robert Scoble

and robert... one question about the PR stuff... isn't it fully in Palm's rights and best interests to give out review units as they see fit? isn't that the point of PR? to get the review units out to those you think will give the best reviews? - Chris Heath

Robert, I don't know about that. Something from a company like Amazon, sure. They have the muscle to keep it going. But something from a startup running on a shoestring? A bad review from the right person could kill it. Look at what Engadget/Gizmodo (I can't remember which) did to the Folio - a product that was a netbook a year or so before the Eee PC. - invariant

Chris: yes. And that's why the practice is a little dirty. - Robert Scoble

but isn't that to be expected as core part of what PR is? - Chris Heath

invariant: any company that has all of its hopes hinged on one review is a company that's setup to fail. When I bring out a product I'll assume I'm going to get bad reviews. In fact, that's what I'm expecting with building43. If someone bashes it it won't stop me. I'll learn from it and move on and make it better. - Robert Scoble

Yeah, but the Folio wasn't quite the EEEPC...it was just an oversized Palm Pilot. Not even with an adequate OS for the size of the thing. - George Hall (Australia)

kind of like the old saying don't hate the player, hate the game? - Chris Heath

Chris: I have come to hate a lot of what PR does. The good ones are very helpful and fair to all comers. - Robert Scoble

But the bad ones... - Robert Scoble

right robert, and if what you're selling is truly good then the product/service doesn't need PR then right? - Chris Heath

George: regarding the Folio: exactly. Bad products can't overcome bad reviews. - Robert Scoble

I still think if a review kills anything, the product wasn't right to begin with. And I know that from my cartooning experience over twenty years ago. Critics are harshest when something's clearly crap. You just can't afford to be precious about a creation that's crap. You take the criticism the proper way and go do a better product. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo seems to be hating the player and the messenger. Wonder if we should ask why. - George Hall (Australia)

Chris: if something really is great PR should only need to facilitate the press seeing it, finding that out, and holding it. I loved the Palm Pre as soon as I saw it on screen and nothing has changed my mind about that since. No PR person needed to give me one. Although the fact that they did made it easier to form an even deeper opinion that it's great. - Robert Scoble

Yikes! - Fred Davis

George: remember, I've been at the harsh end of Arrington's stick. You should go read what he said about PodTech. What he said stung and hurt but it was right and the company wasn't going in a good direction. Arrington just helped everyone's attention focus on that. Could we have pulled it out without that attention? Maybe, but I doubt it in hind site. - Robert Scoble

Palm still need to do something about the sharp edges, though - George Hall (Australia)

night everyone... cy'all later - Chris Heath

Are you saying it's impossible for a great product to fail due to negative publicity? Color me incredulous. - invariant

George: I'm playing with a Pre right now and I don't think the edges are overly sharp. If they did something about them it would pronounce the gaps where the phone slides together. - Robert Scoble

invariant: name a great product that failed due to negative publicity and let's talk. - Robert Scoble

Sometimes even if an idea is ours, it might need work...or it might be crap. Sometimes it's good someone points that out to us. I don't mind a good critic. They're great for getting your idea more focused and improved. - George Hall (Australia)

Robert: was watching a review that showed the edges when opened are sharp enough to cut cheese. - George Hall (Australia)

George: must be really soft cheese. Geesh. - Robert Scoble

Lol - George Hall (Australia)

I mean, can't we all just get along? But then again, I do remember learning as a journalist that controversy sells... even if it does come at a price... - Fred Davis

Exactly, Fred. Heck, a bit of negative publicity actually sells more things... - George Hall (Australia)

George: even there, though, if I read that review that the Palm Pre had sharp edges, all it would make me do is go and hold one and see if they bugged me. If they did, I'd get an iPhone or a Blackberry. If not, well, sold! If that's the worst thing they can say about the Palm Pre, it's actually doing pretty damn well! On the other hand, now I'm going down to the kitchen to see if mine will cut cheese. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

LOL. Palm Pre as cheese knife...now there's a hitherto-unknown use for it. - George Hall (Australia)

Heck,most of us here WANT to see the Palm Pre do well...and Palm themselves. But we'd all like to hope they do listen when some of us do point out where it needs a fine-tune. - George Hall (Australia)

Palm Brie? - Mel Buckpitt

Hmmm....Ryo...you can put NO to most of your questions. I just dislike when someone makes a personal attack on a guy for doing his job. Or when he's blamed for some person's misperception of how much influence he has over whether a product sells or not. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: interesting that you use the same tactics that Arrington used with Leo. That's sorta weird. - Robert Scoble

I still maintain that the Folio was one of those products. It was a netbook before we even knew what to call them, and it was killed before it was even released by a web site that couldn't imagine the utility of a small, low cost portable. It may have had flaws, but so did the first Eee PC. Who knows what it could have become? - invariant

Yeah, Robert, but we at least knew where Arrington was coming from. - George Hall (Australia)

invariant: the eeepc had a linux/unix operating system with a fair amount of useability. The Folio was, to all intents and purposes, just a larger Palm. Huge difference. And at the time it was brought out, Palm OS was a bit limited. - George Hall (Australia)

invariant: well, maybe they shouldn't have shown it to Engadget first. There's lots of others who would have been able to push it along. But some products are simply before their times. Folio didn't excite me and I saw it. I agree with George. Failed OS. Heck, even Palm has given up on that OS. - Robert Scoble

That's not true George. It was based on a linux os just like the Eee. - invariant

Ryo, your comments on Arrington have been accusing him of being a troll. To me, that's treating Arrington a little too personal. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: I read all comments and seems to me you're doing the same thing as Arrington. - Robert Scoble

I agree that spiteful comments are not the best way, but at the same time, Mike Arrington really shouldn't have jumped on such a bandwagon. At any rate, I hope that things douse soon!! - Guru Panguji

Actually, Ryo, your comments about Arrington sound very hateful. - George Hall (Australia)

Hmmm...Ryo...pick a number and join the queue. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo, I've been threatened by experts on occasion. I note you don't seem to have any Facebook. Interesting ommision from your list of web/social media concerns. - George Hall (Australia)

You could defend anything the same way. "Well, it got bad reviews because it was a bad product." But to say that reviews have no effect on the success of a product is mind-boggling to me. Why is there an entire industry based on reviewing products if those reviews have no impact on the product's success? - invariant

Good products improve after a bad review. - George Hall (Australia)

George - Or maybe the company's backers lose faith and pull their funding, drowning the baby before it has a chance to grow up. - invariant

if the backers do that, then they don't think the product's worth going with. Whereas a good product won't lose backers. - George Hall (Australia)

Ryo: name one great product that was kept down by a bad review. Almost every great product has gotten a bad review. - Robert Scoble

Anyway, I'm outta here. Ryo: you can have the last word. It seems you're just pushing my buttons and I have an Apple thread to attend to. Heheh. - Robert Scoble

George, you have a very altruistic view of business. Products get killed all the time for reasons that have nothing to do with how good they are. We'd all be playing games on the Sega Dreamcast II if that weren't the case. - invariant

Admittedly, invariant. Guess I'm still a fan of honest business. - George Hall (Australia)

I seem to remember someone making a mint out of a crap operating system... - George Hall (Australia)

...but by the same token, over the long term, a great product fights back. - George Hall (Australia)

Well take the Dreamcast for example: If Sega would have had more capital they could have kept that business going and potentially been successful, but they just ran out of money. Had nothing to do with the product itself, it had more to do with the business model (i.e. losing money on every console sold). - invariant

And also because another business (Electronic Arts) decided not to support it. - invariant

I think, Invariant, you've pointed out it has less to do with reviews. Bad product OR bad business model. Too easy to fail. Less to do with the review or the reviewer. - George Hall (Australia)

And still no reason to have personal gripes against the reviewer - George Hall (Australia)

George, absolutely. The Dreamcast example was one of a good product that failed, not because of reviews but because of other outside factors. The point is that the good guys do not always win. Reviewers should respect their power and be ethical when they review a product. That's my only point. - invariant

It's just trying to make someone like Arrington a scapegoat for a product - George Hall (Australia)

's troubles. - George Hall (Australia)

Whoa, that's not what I was trying to do at all. - invariant

Of course, a product maker should always expect a review may not always go the way they want... - George Hall (Australia)

Regardless of anything Mike's done in the past to piss people off, I felt bad when I read the update on his post. It's really seemed like he was shook up from the comments he received. Considering the nature of them, I can't blame him. This might seem trivial, but it’s obvious that he was worried or he would have taken the time to correct the punctuation in his update. From my perspective, he’s comes across like an extremely sensitive guy, who has a few issues to deal with, just like the rest of us. - Michael Fidler

I'm just pointing out that reviewers DO have power, and that power can both positively impact or negatively impact the success of a product. As a maker of video games I have direct experience with that. - invariant

I doubt he will do it, but he needs to make more time for himself. If he does, I’m sure he would be a lot less abrasive and a lot happier too. You work equally hard Robert, but you love what you do, and it shows. Does Mike love what he’s does, or is it just work for him now? - Michael Fidler

I don't think Arrington expected to see people behave with such bile and vehemence over such an issue. And of course that would upset him. And it upsets Robert, too, because Robert is still his friend, even if he and Mike occasionally have an intellectual disagreement. - George Hall (Australia)

To be clear I have NO opinion on Mike or the work he does. I assume he's an ethical reviewer and I haven't heard otherwise. I just wanted to address Robert's notion that a good product will succeed despite reviews. I simply do not believe that's true 100% of the time. - invariant

Heck, a few weeks back, Arrington and Techcrunch were the only ones who could tell me why Friendfeed was down for a few hours. Google couldn't. Not many other tech blogs could either. And I was glad he helped us stay informed on that situation. - George Hall (Australia)

I feel like a heel for not understanding the true nature of this thread before jumping in. Let me say this in response to the REAL discussion in this thread: people should be ashamed for attacking Mike over something that was obviously a misunderstanding between himself and Leo. I hope Mike shrugs this off and continues to do just what he does now. - invariant

I can't believe the Gillmor gang section is gone. A year's worth of podcasts, just gone. ? WTF? - Karoli from BuddyFeed

Gillmor Gang is back on itunes! http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... - Jack

Jack, glad to see it on iTunes. looks like NewsGang live is toast. I am so bummed. I'm going to bed. :( - Karoli

Or search "Gillmor Gang" in itunes and it's the one marked "Explicit" - Jack

Me too, not sure why the new feed though. The old feed is just sitting there doing nothing. - Matt Thompson

Leo is the holy Grail of tech for generations, to imply that he is even remotely dishonest is the same as calling all his fans dishonest and stupid, I admit I stopped following Techcrunch because of this incident, but I am not hating on Mike, I understand the jealous inner child in him made him say what he did, we all say bad things and a lynch mob is a little too far in this case. - URLREVIEWS

I think Leo was feeling bad enough for accepting a test unit and Mike's words just sent him over the edge, Leo is honest all the way, anyone who listen to his techguy show knows that, the guy even suggest free alternatives to some of his sponsors, how fan dedicated is that? Leo is Legend. - URLREVIEWS

It all comes down to comments, doesn't it? 1. Long comment threads on Friendfeed are a nightmare to read, especially on a handheld. Can somebody add a threading facility? 2. Anonymous on the internet needs to end. http://twittercism.com/anonymi... It's a poison, and it's the real story behind the Arrington/Laporte spat. - Shéa Bennett

I think the comments went way overboard in their criticism of Arrington. The angle he was approaching his questioning from (that Palm were withholding review units) was legit. Just a shame that there was a misunderstanding on Leos part to interpret it as a question of his integrity. - Jamie

The world is a hurting place and we find it much easier to attack others out of our own pain and dysfunction. Both people were sincere in their position, this example shows you how easy it is to be offended on both sides of the argument just by simply having a different perspective. It does appear Mike was questioning Leo's integrity even though the question was sincere in light of the story Mike was working on. I think we can move on and focus on more important issues. - Owen Greaves

Bloggers must go where the conversation is. TechCrunch is not real time. He'll be back. - Garin Kilpatrick

Garin: I think Mike will come to regret deleting his account, just like Leo came to regret deleting his Twitter account. - Robert Scoble

He can always open a new one. - Amit Morson

Matthew: if I ever get to that point where I get tired of dealing with everyone here, I'll just go private. That way if I want to jump back in at a future date I'll still have my account here. I think Mike made a mistake in just deleting his account. Amit: he could, but someone already took the techcrunch URL. For a business to give that up seems to be not smart, but that's just me. - Robert Scoble

A few weeks ago I almost deleted my Twitter account and I'm glad I didn't for just that reason. - Robert Scoble

Robert - I am glad you didn't delete your twitter account ;) Just keep watering the FF garden instead ! - Susan Beebe

Robert, he doesn't have to deal with everyone. There is no need to respond to each and every bad comment made at him. - Amit Morson

Robert: Mike may have lost 600 comments on TechCrunch but this thread already has 760 comments which makes it #1 on best of week, and we're all talking about TechCrunch. I'm impressed. Mike has already won from this move. - Garin Kilpatrick

Garin, considering his loses and TechCrunch scale, I can't see that as a win. - Amit Morson

Arrington has never liked FF, anyway. And what has being here done for him or Techcrunch? Has it increased his brand awareness, made him more money, got him laid? How can it be a loss when it's never been a gain? - Dawn

Amit: The comments Mike lost were stale, this is fresh and undoubtedly building awareness about Mike and TC. The only way Mike has lost is by dropping friendfeed, but at least he has done so in style. Even here he has not lost because as I said before: he'll be back. - Garin Kilpatrick

He lost his brand name, though I'm sure he can claim it back with FF. - Amit Morson

The TechCrunch brand is growing because of Mike's cunning use and abuse of FF. - Garin Kilpatrick

Abuse? I thought these tools were available to use however we wish. I didn't realize there are FF Nazis demanding that their use is the only legitimate use. - Dawn

lol Thanks Matthew! - Garin Kilpatrick

Can you say BUTTHURT? - Rustic Thoughts

Thats a lot of big words for so early in the morning. - Rustic Thoughts

"I didn't realize there are FF Nazi's demanding that their use is the only legitimate use" -- FINALLY... Jeez... I've been sitting here waiting patiently for Godwin's Law to kick it. It's been almost 48hrs since all this happened... must be a new record. ;-) - Ken Sheppardson

I'm giving this thread a *facepalm* award for the multiple site/acct deletions (TC/FF & GG/TC), over-the-top comments, and of course Mr. "BUTTHURT" and use of the term "FF Nazi" http://friendfeed.com/ffacepa... - Richard Walker

Totally tangential, but using BuddyFriend to read a thread with 771 comments really isn't a nice experience :) - Ian Betteridge from BuddyFeed

Actually a better idea would have been to make his account private - Abhishek Sharma

I can't find the Gillmor Gang section of TechCrunch... could that be removed too? (hopefully just temporarily) - John Wright

John: Yes, it's gone at the moment. - Ken Sheppardson

There's an unofficial Gillmor Gang podcast on itunes here: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObje... or the RSS here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/TheGill... - Jack

This is a tough situation. We all have reached the end of our patience at least once with someone that takes an effort to get along with, especially if we're exhausted by it. Some people are clueless about their impact on others. I've said things in those situations that I meant, but wished I had taken a higher road and said in a better way because it actually makes everything more stressful. - Keith Barrett

What a shame. What a shame this is still a mob. I've purposefully ignored this whole skirmish, having seen this coming a few weeks ago when the GG went to hell for an evening, and then another wee when Mike hung up and bailed on the show. It is a shame that Mike felt it necessary to delete his friendfeed account. It's also a shame that Mike seems to egg (mob)people on to the point of... more... - guruvan (Rob Nelson)

invariant: the impact reviewers have is strongest on their readers, and their own reliability. if an author does not evaluate products honestly it will cause their audience, which may only be a small fraction of the total market, to make more poorly informed decisions and thereby undermines the value of their writing. - Mike Chelen

Robert - Thanks for starting this thread. The calm voices and mostly sensitive nature of the comments have helped me begin to heal. I am emerging from this very trying weekend a changed person, trampled by a crowd wearing combat boots. I now know how scary mobs are. - Tina Chase Gillmor

Tina: I once was in a real mob after a San Francisco 49er Super Bowl victory (I drove through it) and I've never been so terrified. It's interesting that my friend who told me off for pushing a mob a couple of years ago has been quiet with this mob. Ahh, I love studying how people work. Keep it up, let's get back in the saddle, what Steve, Mike, and you are doing is interesting. That's why the mob formed in the first place so don't forget that. - Robert Scoble

*sigh* mobs suck - Susan Beebe

If you have a mob that theoretically can be pushed at someone, you should be judged separately. It's like being a pro karate fighter - treated in court like a weapon. - Kirill Bolgarov

Oh, by the way. techcrunch sucks and so does mashable. of course it's my personal opinion, but they have gone too far in the battles over traffic and pageviews. their destination is a tabloid with a few to no real value. the only reason i could click on a ЕС link was a good discussion onver it on friendfeed. so, they completely lost at least one reader because of their CEO's personal stuff. that's not that professional i guess - Kirill Bolgarov

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