"Americans have cut back on buying vehicles of all types as the economy continues its slide. But the slowdown has been particularly brutal for hybrids, which use electricity and gasoline as power sources. They were the industry's darling just last summer, but sales have collapsed as consumers refuse to pay a premium for a fuel-efficient vehicle now that the average price of a gallon of gasoline nationally has slipped below $2. "When gas prices came down, the priority of buying a hybrid fell off quite quickly," said Wes Brown, a partner at Los Angeles-based market research firm Iceology. "Yet even as consumer interest declined, the manufacturers have continued to pump them out."" - Thomas Hawk from Bookmarklet

I recall a couple of years ago that Consumer Reports claimed hybrids were not more cost effective due to increased maintenance costs. There's also debate if they're more environmentally friendly due to the manufacturing of the battery for these vehicles. It could be that hybrids are just more expensive, eco-unfriendly vehicles with great marketing. - William Beem

I think falling gas prices is only part of the reason. A cratering economy and consumer credit being cut back/cut off has a fair bit to do with it as well. - vicster is old

The new Prius will get 50mpg. Seems to me that sending more money than necessary to Saudi Arabia isn't a great idea. - Robert Scoble

Consumers have the memory and reasoning ability of a goldfish, it seems. The economy tanked and gas prices took a nosedive. What do they think is going to happen to gas prices when the economy recovers? - Eric P

Robert, we drive two cars that are at about 100k miles each. If one of them dies, we're buying another used car in the <$7000 range. Your comment suggests to me that your car purchasing mindset might be a ways off from others'. I'd like a more efficient car, and both of ours are above 20mpg highway, but we can't afford to make it our #1 concern when choosing a new auto. - Daniel J. Pritchett

when oil>>gasoline prices start to go back up, this will shift back. - grant fox

Even at 50mpg, you have to use alot of gas to break-even on the premium cost a hybrid model as over a traditional car. My $11k (after incentives) '08 Cobalt gets me 30mpg regularly. If it takes years to recoup the additional investment in the hybrid, people won't make that investment. Sadly, many people won't dig into their pocket book just for the principle of not sending money to Saudi Arabia - Kevin Kuphal

This is interesting but the article speaks in absolute, not percentage terms... which makes it hard to analyze. *all* car sales are plummeting dramatically. the article could say, "sales of blue cars plummet".... (as vicster alludes to). Hybrids are not, *necessarily*, the most energy-optimal choice. They take more resources to build and it of course depends on your driving style/habits. But they are generally a smart, responsible choice. - Anthony Citrano

As Eric says: low gas prices is a very temporary condition. People are dumb. - Anthony Citrano

William: I recently heard about the environmental damage from NiMH battery manufacture although I have had a Prius > 8 years! Do you have a reference? - Thomas Ho from twhirl

Not true in a normal car market, Kevin. The Prius has significantly lower ownership costs than most other new cars for a 5 year period (which is longer than what the average owner keeps a car for BTW) because of its greater efficiency and excellent resale value. - Alex Scoble

In the big scope, Daniel, you are being extremely economical. Very likely the vehicle in that range will have mostly depreciated which is still a large portion of the cost of owning a vehicle. - MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)

the people aren't necessarily dumb, just misinformed. also consider the stigma of driving a prius in f-150 country, something that many left-coasters fail to recognize. - grant fox

Alex: Would you happen to know at what price per gallon it's break even, i.e. hybrid vs. non? - Ken Sheppardson

Isn't buying brand new cars an inherently profligate decision? Who's splitting hairs about 5-year TCO at that point? - Daniel J. Pritchett

The best thing you can say about hybrids is that they kill us all just a little more slowly. I tend to agree with vicster... I'm betting a lot of the hybrids sold last year were purchased as a trade-in, likely in such a way that the loan the buyer got covered the new hybrid, plus the difference between trade-in-value and money-left-on-the-old-loan, and probably fairly impulsively. Not something people would do impulsively now nor be able to get such a jumbo loan for. - Wirehead

According to Consumer Reports TCO for a Prius for 5 years is about $25,500 on a car that costs $22,000 or so. There are other cars with similar purchase price that cost $39k to buy. For new cars the Prius has the lowest TCO. This includes Corollas and what not. Of course this is based off of national average for miles per year. - Alex Scoble

And I'm not buying the battery argument. Toyota is saying that the batteries, in most cases, will last 15 years or longer with normal use. Cost to replace them is something like $2500 now. Because of recycling technologies available the old batteries aren't doing significant damage to the environment. - Alex Scoble

If I were buying another car, and I won't be for many years, I'd buy a used Prius. - Thomas Hawk

I agree with you Thomas. My only caveat is that I still won't pay a large up-front premium for it. I figure lots of people are interested in the used Prius, so if it turns out they cost 20% more than an equivalent Camry or something, I'll probably pass. - Daniel J. Pritchett

@grant - actually, no, people are dumb. ;) @alex: the CR research does not include the net environmental impacts of manufacturing a Prius, which are high and nasty compared to a traditional car with an ICE. Of course much of this is because of manufacturing and sourcing processes that are far from perfected. - Anthony Citrano

A decent bike of any style costs less than the price difference between a Prius and a Corolla. Given the percentage of people who I work with who could commute via bike, potentially with a train or bus ride in between, but don't.... well... at least I can laugh all the way to the bank even if the rest of the country is busy polluting my air. - Wirehead

The slowdown came when people realized that except for the golfcart that is the Pius, Hybrids don't get better gas mileage than the equivalent size/model standard engine. The Pius is the only thing on the road breaking 35mpg, and 4-cyl engines have been managing that for 30 years. My dad's 81 rabbit did that with a bad tune up. - Matthew DeVries

If I could afford a second car, I'd buy a hybrid. Preferably another Prius. - Nine

Current hybrids are just green window-dressing. They aren't viable (economically or environmentally) for 90% of buyers, much like the Tesla. Puff & hype, little substance. - Steven Cains

I guessed that would happen, before you had to place orders in & wait for months - sofarsoShawn Blue Period

@sofarsosean that's why I don't have a Prius now. After mine got totaled, there was a 6-9 month waiting list. Right after I got a different car gas prices went down and there were Prius everywhere. - Nine

IMO, the largest factor is that the Prius doesn't fit the average consumer's lifestyle. Is there a hybrid mini-van that has a lower TCO? - Robert Hafer

I just drove through Texas today and almost every car was either a huge pickup or a huge SUV. And this is in a place where you need to drive a LOT to get from one place to another. It is Un American to keep buying these kinds of large cars. Getting people onto a hybrid is another argument altogether. - Robert Scoble

The new Prius, coming out in May, has the best mileage of any car on the Californian market. The idea that hybrids don't get better mileage is wrong. - Robert Scoble

@nine and why I had to forgo a 400rxh, which was my dream mobile, besides the waiting period it was also because they cost "that much more", over the long run you're not really saving any money unless you drive a lot - sofarsoShawn Blue Period

Lindsey: sending money to Saudi Arabia is about the most unamerican thing I can think of. Do you disagree? If you do, what is "American" to you and how would something be for or against such a concept? To me being American means treating women with respect. That doesn't go on in Saudi Arabia. Being American means having a representational democracy. That doesn't go on in Saudi Arabia. Being American means freedom to wear what you want. That doesn't go on in Saudi Arabia. Buying a big car is VERY un American - Robert Scoble

I'm buying a new Prius even though it does cost more. Why? To encourage more R&D into new ways to save fuel. To me this is an American issue and we must solve it. Solving problems costs money. But if we get a better car that'll make my son's lives better, so to me that's worth the investment. - Robert Scoble

@Lindsey - good catch, usually when I hear a word like that my guard goes way, way up. In fact, sometimes I wonder if calling something unAmerican is unAmerican by itself. And to Robert's statement: for many, there's nothing MORE American than buying a bigass Lincoln Navigator, putting a "Support The Troops" sticker on the back, and filling the tank up with fresh Saudi-derived gasoline. - Anthony Citrano

Plus, I drive about 20,000 miles in a year, so I can actually make a case for paying for a hybrid's extra cost, especially in the Prius, which sold so well that it spread the R&D over a larger number of units. - Robert Scoble

But Robert being an American is also thinking you have the God-given right to be an ignorant fuck. How else do you explain the last decade, my friend? Also, your logic fails a bit in the sense that it says to be a proper American you must prescribe your specific value sets to other cultures / nations. Also under your logic, then by extension purchasing gasoline at all - or, for that matter, anything plastic or derived from petroleum - is "unAmerican". - Anthony Citrano

Lindsey: most of the Japanese car brands are manufactured here in America now too. Yes, freedom is an important American value, but thanks to 9/11, which was funded by Saudi Arabia (and everyone involved came from Saudi Arabia) this is now an American issue because they want to destroy the culture we have here. Add in the other stuff, like global warming, and cost (gas prices will go up again, especially now that OPEC has reduced production) and it's pretty un American to defend big cars. - Robert Scoble

Anthony: the Saudis would love to take our culture and shove it down our throats. But, you are right on first point. :-) - Robert Scoble

I'm sorry Robert but for someone I consider to be enlightened & open-minded, I find your nationalism a little surprising. - Steven Cains

I ride public transit. - Steve Lynch from twhirl

Cains: one answer: 9/11. - Robert Scoble

Also - there's a difference between an "ignorant f***" and "insulated from the negative feedback resulting from your actions." Ignorance is not based on national affiliation, last time I checked. - Steve Lynch from twhirl

I don't really understand that. 9/11 was a small group of people, not everyone in Saudi Arabia is a terrorist. It's not like Saudi Arabia is the only oil producer either. I think your points on sustainability are justified, but I can't buy into this "us & them" mentality. I'll stop here, Apologies for taking this thread off-topic. - Steven Cains

Robert: the objective of 9/11 was not to destroy our culture. Hearing that, I can't help but be reminded of Bush's "they hate us for our freedom." - Anthony Citrano

Conversation reminds me of the Jared Diamond Long Now semiar http://preview.tinyurl.com/yorudm - Steve Lynch from twhirl

I have the freedom to say it's unamerican to buy a big car. So be it. Anyone who wants to take away that freedom is unamerican too. :-) - Robert Scoble

Saying that America's oil comes from the middle-east in particular Saudi Arabia is a long believed fiction perpetuated by Team America the. The fact is that the entire Middle East (not just Saudi Arabia) is third on the list of American oil imports http://www.nowpublic.com/money... so here in as #1 exporter to the US, Canada politely is waiting on our "Axis-of-Evil" designation then the following invasion. But agree with your value statement: on democracy/respect for others - sofarsoShawn Blue Period

Cains: it's not necessarily us vs. them. There's a reasonable amount of evidence that members of the Saudi Royal family, which benefits directly from us buying their oil, at least partly bankrolled Al Qaeda. Regardless, the Middle East is inherently unstable. So depending on the region for so much of our energy puts us at risk. - Kevin Pedraja

Does that mean that blocking drilling in ANWAR or offshore is unAmerican. - Robert Hafer

Robert is it unAmerican to call me unAmerican for calling you unAmerican for calling big cars unAmerican? - Anthony Citrano

Robert: I support both of those things. Even though I live right by the shore you'll be drilling on, and even though I'm an environmentalist democrat. But, I think it's not one or the other. If I were God I'd electrify the car industry while doing a number of other things to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. - Robert Scoble

Anthony: something like that. Heheh. Mostly I just wanted to have a good conversation today about this topic. If we can't change how we look at the world we are doomed. If we keep assuming we can be reckless with energy (and that's really what buying big cars is) then we're going to leave a world for our kids that's going to be pretty damn tough to live in. We need to change our approach. This is a VERY important thread for all of humanity, not just Americans. - Robert Scoble

Scoble, true you do. However, everytime you say anything is unamerican it invokes the memory of McCarty. That illicits a very unfavorable reaction. But your point is noted- "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". - Roberto Bonini

@Robert - agreed. There's little more important than talking about our reliance on fossil fuels. Best time to deal with it was back when we were ridiculing Carter for saying we needed to change our ways. But sooner is always better than later, and it's far better to be talking about it with oil at $45 than $150. - Anthony Citrano

Roberto: one method a writer can use to get you to pay attention is to illicit a very unfavorable reaction. Keep the conversation going, this is good stuff. - Robert Scoble

"putting a gun to the head" of consumers to buy the car you (or the government) thinks they should buy will always fail in the long run. Energy saving cars have to be cars people want to drive or they will stay an oddity. - Robert Hafer

Even though I'd buy a Prius as my next car I still like photographing the big old American Cars more. They certainly have/had more style back then. Of course I suspect back then people didn't realize how bad those cars were. Just like everyone smoked and pregnant women drank martinis and Miller High Life. - Thomas Hawk

So, Robert, I can count at least 10 problems caused by cars. A hybrid makes 2 of them a little better. An electric car makes those 2 go away but leaves at least 8 problems (think of things like traffic and parking in SF) and will create new ones. Even environmentalist democrats like yourself need to take a few more steps back. - Wirehead

If the government wanted to reduce the reliance on foreign oil then they need to remove any tax paid on the hybrid cars plus raise a tax on gas. That effect of this it will raise the value of hybrid cars in the consumers mind, even in a recession. The rise in the fuel tax won't have a big effect on the economy as it was surviving at a higher price a year ago. However there does need to be a sensible cap on the tax rise unlike here in the UK. To be honest I would kill to pay $3/gall, I paid $7/Gall today. - Paul Bainbridge

@Lindsey, et al: There are many reasons why continuing to expend massive amounts of oil are bad. The nice thing about the "dealing with countries who actively dislike us" is that it's a good catch-all for both the left and the right. Without oil, most of those countries would be banana republics with weird customs that only make the news on occasion. - Wirehead

I don't know if I should say this considering the tension here: but I ❤ my SUV and it runs on baby seals. And on patriotism http://www.youtube.com/watch... this explains it much better than any words I could use. - sofarsoShawn Blue Period

You could drill heavily today and use the increased revenue to research safe nuclear reactors and rapid charge car batteries to make electic car green and viable for consumers. - Robert Hafer

@Green no unfortunately I have to shove em in my tank still alive, it makes me feel guilty sometimes :( But then I get over it. - sofarsoShawn Blue Period

Would some one please explain to me what the difference is between buying middle east oil and Japanese cars? There are many American made cars, including hybrids, that are equal in all areas of quality and fuel economy, yet all I hear is Prius, Prius, Prius. Great car, but if you buy one it's still sending U.S. dollars to Japan. The 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid is coming soon and that's the vehicle that I would be considering if I was in the market for a hybrid. - Clearlight

Marc: really? Please post the Consumer Reports reviews. Post the gas mileage rates. I'm looking to buy a Prius, which gets 50mpg (the new one, coming this summer). Let me know where all these great cars are. Keep in mind I currently own a GM car, and before that, had a Ford Focus. But the Prius (the new one) is way ahead of anything else I've seen. - Robert Scoble

Oh, and Japan's society is a lot closer to our own than Saudi Arabia's is. If I had a choice I'd pick Japan right now any day. - Robert Scoble

In fact, that's another point. I'm not buying a new car today because I know the new Prius is coming out in May. So, I'm waiting. And I'm definitely buying a Hybrid next time. I bet I'm not the only one, either (there's a waiting list at every dealer in San Francisco Bay Area already). - Robert Scoble

Chris: I have looked. The Toyota's tech is a lot more advanced. - Robert Scoble

Which says enough how little concern the public has for environment. The price is what matters primarily and this, in my humble opinion, should be the tool to be used if we want results in the decrease of CO2 emission. - lelapin

I'd like to think the answer is selling the American people on a targeted lockboxed tax (e.g. tax oil products solely to pay for infrastructure and research devoted to freeing us from a dependence on oil) but I suspect that the American population is too dumb even for that. - Wirehead