I respectfully throw myself at the feet of the Court Of FriendFeed and beg for special dispensation since I have only learnt that Friday the 5th of June is Donut Day at 1am on Saturday the 6th. I seek leave to engage in the festivities one day later to atone for my trespass on this most......... wait for it.......... holey day
You doughnut-picture-posting folks are just cruel. I never buy donuts but that photo the other day with the young guy munching the donut must have worked on me subliminally cuz when I got back from lunch I discovered I had stopped at Starbucks and bought an apple fritter.
- Fred Yankowski
You cannot petition the FriendFeed with donuts...
- Todd Hoff
may everyday be a holey day for you :D
- zsafwan
I've decided, Johnny, that we can celebrate it today :D A holey day indeed :)
- Penny
Something not working with Twitter? That's truly surprising considering they are the most reliable service on the net.
- Bjorn Stromberg
i log into twitter and start following a user - cool. i go to FF and try to set up an imaginary friend (enter name, select twitter service, enter twitter name click "import twitter" and BAM: "We could not find the given account" whoever is causing this, it sux and needs to stop.
- MikeAmundsen
interesting. I saw that a bunch of tweets seemed to come into FF 30 minutes late yesterday. I wonder if this is part of a strategy on Twitter's part to disrupt Twitter service within FF in order to undermine the competition without coming out and taking the heat for publicly pulling the API from them. I hope not.
- Thomas Hawk
Figures the day I finally give in to starting a FF page and I can't wire up my Twitter account.
- Tina Chase Gillmor
We're running into some rate limiting issues, but I'm working with Twitter to get them fixed. I just put out a work-around for now, so you should be able to add your Twitter account now. Sorry for the difficulty.
- Paul Buchheit
Same issue for me. It says "We could not find the given account" when I want to add the Twitter account...
- HDG Ticaret
i am able to add one of my twitter accounts with password, but not another. the second one i still get an error account not found. this sucks.
- Sriky
friendfeed is pulling my tweets from twitter. I want to stop this. In settings, I am not allowed to do it anymore. Can someone help?
- Fatmanur Erdogan
Same issue, @Fatma, servislerden twitter'ı sil.
- siniradam
"Remember: I blame FriendFeed for this, and Robert Scoble, Steve Rubell, Dave Winer, and all the rest of the puppets and ex-Techcrunch analysts who, by appearing to rationally debate the pluses and minuses of FriendFeed versus Twitter, suggest FriendFeed even exists in the absence of Twitter. Nik Cubrilovic doesn’t help either with his cogent (except for the Rails part) analysis of Twitter’s scaling problems. Nowhere in this debate (most of it mercifully hidden forever behind the FriendFeed black hole where conversations go to die) was there a word spoken about the fatal Track bug until Jack hit the Off switch. Now, in the cool clarity of no pulse whatsoever can we begin to rationally approach a solution. Forgetting that Hillary has shown no indication of processing the similar lack of pulse in her White House aspirations, let’s put the blame for all this squarely on the parasite API suckers and their dark master FriendFeed. Good."
- Paul Buchheit
I accuse my parents (a little MST3K humor)
- Mark Dykeman
My guess is that a good deal of folks who are otherwise technology experts haven't yet mastered the "Hide" option, and seeing Twitter in FriendFeed makes them feel it's simply an echo chamber for Twitter. Hiding Twitter, and/or utilizing the many other sources that are not Twitter here in FriendFeed makes it more valuable.
- Louis Gray
Someone pass around what Steve Gillmor is smoking. That is some heavy stuff he's got in his stash. I think I counted 10 words he seriously made up for that post. And why is friendfeed to blame for the XMPP/Jabber shutdown?
- Mark Trapp
WTF? This guy reminds me of Gary Busey, but angrier, if that's even possible.
- April Buchheit
This article simply doesn't make any sense. Please reword for clarity.
- Eric Florenzano
I was afraid when I saw "?" there. And now...no comment... :S
- Erhan Erdoğan
Is he kidding? I hope he's kidding. FriendFeed exists with or without twitter. In fact, I would love to see twitter removed from FriendFeed altogether. Guaranteed there would still be plenty of conversations revolving around the links shared, the pictures posted, etc.
- EricaJoy
I don't follow Twitter at all on FriendFeed. I find it somewhat ironic that one of Steve G's big passions was (is?) "Attention Metadata" and FriendFeed via likes, comments, etc is actually a service that makes great use of attention metadata!
- Robert Seidman
I enjoy that this Friendfeed post has more comments than his post on TechCrunch.
- Mark Trapp
This is the most buzzword-laden web 2.0 rant I have ever read. It's like he is making words up to describe stuff every other paragraph or so. And.. what's this jab at Clinton in the middle? How random.
- Phil Glockner
FriendFeed direct posts are really similar to Twitter in my mind.
- Hutch Carpenter
@Paul can you share the percentage of FF users that hide twitter posts?
- EricaJoy
Gillmor refuses to realize that the comment feature of FriendFeed does indeed add value that Twitter lacks. That's probably the key reason why I MOVED MY conversations to FriendFeed! Also, the sharing feature is the reason why I like FriendFeed! IF I merely wanted the 'stream of consciousness' of Twitter, I would just use Twitter! I think that FriendFeed 'exposes' the 'chinks in Twitter's armor'
- Thomas Ho
from fftogo
I think that Mark Trapp's observation is 'priceless'
- Thomas Ho
from fftogo
It sounds like Gillmor hasn't given FriendFeed nearly enough time if he thinks it's only "Twitter, but slower". I have a great time on here with Twitter hidden half of the time. If anything, let's blame Twitter for so much noise and/or so much conversation due to their issues
- Andrew Dobrow
FriendFeed can definitely make it without Twitter...so many conversations occur without Twitter being involved at all.
- Chris Rossini
That... made no sense to me. Still dazed from the insanity of it all. I see more conversations here on links and such than on tweets. And really, why is FriendFeed to blame for the Jabber shutdown? Seriously!
- dgw
This whole article was most undirectional article, I have read in recent times. I read it twice, and can't make out, what he want to say.
- Varun Mahajan
Adam, same here. I personally find the vast majority of twitter messages to be extremely boring and of no use to me.
- Aviv
Where are these "siloed conversation spamyards" to which he refers? You could say that about any chat system (if I understand his rather obtuse meaning) and FF discussions are quite cogent and open. (And seem especially so if you've ever spent any time in the Digg comments.)
- Nicķ
I usually keep the Twitter FF feed open. FF is definitely NOT the only app pulling on Twitter's API. Hundreds of sites, clients, etc?. Twitter had (maybe has) time to distinguish itself. Just 'come clean' with regular community updates. (PR time?) So far it's been lame. In the meantime, there's no doubt Friendfeed will continue to increase it's pull. Twitter put the API out there. THEY need to deal with the results, whether they were ready or not
- Charlie Anzman
FriendFeed is what you put in to it. If you add all your Twitter friends and nobody else, FriendFeed will appear to be Twitter with siloed conversations, but in that case that's exactly what you asked for. If you don't add a thousand people as friends and convince a thousand people to follow you then you won't see any of this 'spam graveyard' Steve talks about. You get what you ask for, and irrelevance is what you get if you add irrelevant friends.
- Kevin Fox
It's also worth noting how much FriendFeed thrived when Twitter had its difficulties this week. That would seem to put a hole in the argument that FriendFeed is primarily a downstream service to Twitter.
- Kevin Fox
OK friendfeed is NOT twitter. Its something else, and I like both. (sticks out tongue)...via feedalizr
- Photo Larry
He shouldn't drink before writing for TechCrunch
- Alejandro
man, I honestly care jack shit about what people post on Twitter, but I find FF incredibly useful. Gillmor is seriously off his rocker with this post (which is the least legible I've seen on TC in a long time).
- Chieze Okoye
There were some bugs in the "Twitter publishing" code that caused some entries to get published on Twitter when they should not, and others to not get published when they should. I've cleaned up the code to eliminate these problems, but it's possible some settings were lost. Please verify your settings at http://friendfeed.com/setting...
Cheers for this Paul. How cool is it that one of the founders of FF still gets his hands dirty in the code. Once a coder, always a coder :-)
- Keith Bennett
from Nambu
Thanks Keith :) By the way, if none of your posts are making it through to twitter, it may be that you changed your password. To verify, simply click "Save changes" at http://friendfeed.com/setting... and we will check that your Twitter credentials are still good (and sign-out then back in to fix).
- Paul Buchheit
Matthew, in general all the same settings that the old ui had are available on the new one (plus a few more), though they are now divided on to several different pages. You should be able to reach all of the the settings by clicking on the word "settings" below your name in the top-right part of the page (the dialog shows a few, and links to all the others).
- Paul Buchheit
You can filter by service by searching for service:twitter (or whatever service you like), and of course that can be combined with other search operators as well. See http://friendfeed.com/search... for more.
- Paul Buchheit
Thanks Paul, sounds like you pulled an all nighter to fix these.
- Robert Scoble
Yeah, unfortunately the code had gotten rather involved since it was trying to support both the old ui and the new (the old ui worked on a per-service basis instead of letting you decide individually on each entry), and the logic sometimes became inconsistent. I simplified it quite a bit, so there should be less room for bugs now :)
- Paul Buchheit
Nice try, Matthew, I congratulate you on being awake, and carpe-diem'ing Paul here, but have to disappoint you - if FF wanted us to have favicons, they'd already issued us our favicons. Do you see any favicons that made the transition from earlier version. No? You think Paul nuked them by mistake... be my guest, and I'll be looking forward to the next couple of years' worth of your pleading for favicons when you could be learning to live both here and thereater without them.
- ianf ⌘
I'm a bit confused about the "Post my FriendFeed entries on Twitter by default" and "FriendFeed (when there's no Cc box)" options. Are these exclusive? Does checking the first one mean all my FriendFeed posts will get posted to Twitter even if I uncheck the Cc box?
- Tony Ruscoe
Paul, thank you thank thank you for the "Check CC Twitter box by default" option!!! That's one step closer to only needing Friendfeed. I'm almost ready to dump Google Reader AND Twitter now!
- Curtis (a) Jackson
Tony, the "cc twitter by default" option sets whether then checkbox is checked or unchecked by default in the share box and bookmarklet. The other option ("when there's no cc box") applies mostly to the API and other off-site interfaces, such as email (mail share@friendfeed.com) and IM. For any given post, only one setting applies.
- Paul Buchheit
I publish to Twitter by default but now link directly to the source. I figure that those finding outside of FF want to go to the source (while those reading on FF are already seeing the discussion).
- Mike Reynolds
Hi Paul, about 15 mins ago I "shared" an item from FF here to "my feed" and "cc Twitter". But still not showing up on Twitter. Just thought I'd let you know.
- Brian
Thanks Brian. It turns out there was a bug in the "Share" feature that sometimes caused us to sometimes not send the tweets (the new code errors on the side of not sending tweets). It's fixed now though. Please let me know if you spot any others.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, that did the trick! Thanks for looking into that. BTW, that was a quick fix! Just shared an item on FF and it pushed thru to Twitter instantly.
- Brian
Hello Paul, when I try to publish just my google talk status to twitter and have "Link to source site instead of FriendFeed conversation" selected, it doesn't send the tweet. I'm not sure if this is because twitter seems to be having difficulty right now or if it's the lack of a source link because it's a google talk status?
- ehaab
ehaab, publishing to Twitter was broken this morning, so no updates went out. It should work fine now however, including publishing updates from Google Talk. Sorry about that.
- Paul Buchheit
thanks! it was driving me batty trying to figure out why it wasn't taking.
- ehaab
I think it's still broken. I just posted via the Bookmarklet and CC'd twitter... no go. EDIT: my latest one just posted, must be intermittent.
- Daniel Sims
Hi Paul, Mine is still not working. I have also checked the setting page.
- zahedzadeh
it is May 2012, 3 years passed, things are broken, Twitter makes what it promises, Friendfeed fix at top does... nothing. After oAuth decoupling and re-coupling again, fresh app access appears on Twitter control side but Friendfeed does not follow.. #PRKL
- A. T.
Hi Paul, apparently there's no new certificate available for FF. Italian and Turkish users are panicking, this might be a sign that the end of FF is approaching. Can you reassure us?
- mentegatto
this is the end of the world as we know it
- thomas morton ☢
"Today we are launching version 2 of the FriendFeed API for beta testing. We focused on making the API simpler to use, and we added number of compelling new features." Documentation: http://friendfeed.com/api...
- Bret Taylor
from Bookmarklet
nice, good to see OAuth support, this will enable a larger 3rd party ecosphere around FriendFeed, I hope
- Jeroen De Miranda
After going through the documentation and playing around with some feeds, I love the fact that you can now see the subscriber lists of people who have their feeds set to private as long as you are subscribed to them and authenticate (mimicking the main site functionality). One thing that's absent is a discussion of Direct Messages. Do they show up in feeds if you authenticate? How do we find just direct messages?
- Mark Trapp
Mark: direct messages are accessed using the feed ID "filter/direct". Read more about feed IDs at http://friendfeed.com/api.... Also direct messages appear in the "home" feed.
- Benjamin Golub
Benjamin: ahhh, I see it now. I missed it when skimming that list over. Thanks!
- Mark Trapp
Can you post the wget version of the command line?
- Gabe
Gabe: wget --user=bgolub --password=passwd --post-file=MyPhoto.jpg http://friendfeed-api.com/v2... should work. In theory. Edit: nope. I'm not sure it's possible to do with wget.
- Mark Trapp
Gabe: wget doesn't support multipart forms as a design decision. If you post a file, FriendFeed returns a 404, and if you post data, the query is too long for wget to handle.
- Mark Trapp
Good work, look forward to seeing what developers can create
- Joe Dawson
Woowoo, bgolub's password is “passwd” ;-)
- Amit Patel
Amit: I wonder how many people tested that :)
- Benjamin Golub
Thanks to bgolub posting his password, I now have all of FriendFeed's secret documents about notorious users, useless metrics, Justin Timberlake's promoting FF on Oprah's show, hiring Colbert as a spokesperson, Ev Williams being just a “distraction”. TechCrunch is going to love this! ;)
- Amit Patel
Yes big big thanks to the whole team for all their hard work!!
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
from iPhone
I'm assuming some kind of music video. This is a popular dance/activity of some kind...I think in Jamaica. There was an epidemic of broken weiners as a result. (this is not a joke)
- Rahsheen
Dude...that video is just...WTF. I thought I'd seen it all, but they're just blatantly miming all types of innapropriate shit to the nth degree
- Rahsheen
That video made my netherbits hurt just watching it. :-/
- Hookuh Tinypants
Probably hasn't been heard of since because you can actually BREAK YOUR WINKY! Which is highly disturbing to me. Hence why I would never even think of doing this. I treasure my winky, along with a relatively small number of other individuals.
- Rahsheen
Also see http://jezebel.com/5234308... - in particular, "Just when you were getting over the horror of daggering, a video of extreme dancing to reggae music shows a man jumping off of an 8 foot column on to the crotch of a woman.Oh yeah: And then he throws a table at her."
- ωαřмaiden ❤Marrit Woman❤
This is why my Guyanese half and my Jamaican half have issue with each other. LOL.
- Rahsheen
I actually came over here to see if Kam was okay. And I get an education ... ;-) FF FTW.
- Mary B: #TeamMonique
from iPhone
Here in West Hollywood, my best friend of 18 years and his boyfriend are getting married. So yes, I get to be a groomsman at a gay wedding - prop 8 or not. Should be awesome.
- Louis Gray
It was a fantastic ceremony. One of the best weddings I have ever seen. It was traditional Jewish themed, so I am wearing a yarmulke to match the vest and tie. Lots of great friends from my teenage years.
- Louis Gray
from iPhone
Louis, I own a yarmulke as well - my wife brought it for me when she visited Israel
- Jesse Stay
+ a million for the whole thread. Looks like you're picking up some admirers here, Louis! Nylissk, we gotta warn you, you're ging after a married man with many admirers. You want a piece of this guy, you're gonna have to get in line - like filing a lien on a house with five mortgages and a line of credit, with outstanding remodeling bills. ;-)
- Mary B: #TeamMonique
Hey, who is this guy from the past. Has he come to warn us about the future?
- Eric - Too Hot
I have heartbreaking news. I've been asked to relay that the amazing person we know here as carlotta fancypants aka extra super cutie passed away in her sleep in the early morning of Friday, July 23, 2010. I do not have many details to pass along. I can say she was not physically well for some time. I do know this world lost something and grew a...
I am so sorry…. My most heartfelt condolences to her family and friends. We were the most casual of acquaintances, but I always knew she'd make for a best friend. She was a lovely person and will be sorely missed. Farewell, Carlotta.
- Absentee
I was just looking at her flickr pics. She looks like she was a lovely person. I'm sad I didn't get to know her other than a few threads I remember seeing her reply to. RIP :(
- Tamara
This is clearly not my cat. If this was my cat he's have one arm shoved down into the printer trying to tear up all the internal whirling bits with his bare claws.
- Soup in a TARDIS
Too Funny! Reminds me of the San Mateo Cat Shelter where one of the cats loves to sleep on top of the laster printer where the paper comes out...
- Greg Lato
1600+ to beat the FFundercats live chat thread. I think with this real time now on all threads we're going to see some truly epic comment numbers.
- Simon Wicks
Ivan, no the picture speaks for itself. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Petr, I have no idea what you mean, but thank you. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
@Kol .. :] that, partially, might have been the purpose.... I don't know it exactly either. :] .. was I reflecting on a cat under the fax, and that it is hard to fax that way ... /?:] ... "underfaxing at its worst" ..
- pb:
there ya have me ! :] .... see, to be honest with you, i saw this pic couple days ago, but i let it go, without posting it ..... what does that make me? :]
- pb:
even a flat cat... faxes just can't handle the hair. You'd have to shave the cat first, else the hair will burn and stick to the drum... a mess! (I am extrapolating from transparencies, mind, i don't have access to a cat to test)
- Iphigenie
Hehe, Joelle. This is now tied for the 'likes' top stop. One more then, hehe. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Hehe, Greg. Blimey! Erm, is that not far from 500 likes now? ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Bloody marvelous, Kol. Wish I could like it again... too cute (and help u to 500 likes).
- Roberto Bonini
I couldn't believe it when I logged on from the morning over posting it and saw it was at something 200 likes! You all have a strange fetish with cats and fax machines, hehe. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Am I the only one who saw this and their first thought was - My goodness did someone break that cats neck? It still freaks me out a little
- SteVe C
Steve, it does look a little out of place, but cats are pretty bendy. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
So we can put this post to rest now. :-) 505 likes final count, wow! :-D Good night all!
- Kol Tregaskes
did 3 people really un-like this? now at 506. wtf (edit: uh, oh, yeah, me and 2 + 506 others makes 509. dammit, jim, i'm an artist, not a mathematician)
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
One of the best funny cat pictures I've seen! :-)
- John Collis
Kristian, it appears to be. Hehe, John.
- Kol Tregaskes
ای بابا این پیشول بی خیال نمی شود، بابا پاشو برو دنبال یه بازی دیگه ، از هفته پیش تا حالا تو فکس ولو شدی حوصله ات سر نرفته، پاشو اقلا بپر رو کیبوردی چیزی
- Maryaminaa
It's really only social convention which regards it as inappropriate, same with Xeroxing it, like one does with their b__tocks. Wait are we still talking about cats cats here or...
- sofarsoShawn
OMGosh 700+ likes now!! LOL. Thank you all 702 of you. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
beersage, that seems like an unfriendly comment. is it?
- edythe
Yes we are, @beersage, and you bumped the post so everyone can look at us some more. Thanks. We love the attention. BTW, @beersage, you may not be aware but the reason this is "news" here is because we met through Friend Feed. Those photos are from the first time we met IRL.
- ·[▪_▪]·
I'm stlll shocked that *I* spent 6 years of my life changing diapers. That was definitely never in the plans. I couldn't even begin to imagine what some of my friends with 4 or 5 kids with 2 - 3 years between them have endured.
- Anika
I am looking at that thinking it would be great for my cat litter waste.
- Janet:#TeamMonique
You should have another. You make beautiful kids.
- Carlos Ayala
Carlos, you crazy. I'm a raging bitch when I'm pregnant. All my friends have begged for me never to get pregnant again. They say I'm like a mean, hormonal drunk. <shrug> And I really don't ever want to do all that newborn stuff again.
- Anika
That's fancy! Ours is just a regular rectangle kitchen Rubbermaid container thing.
- Rochelle
i'll take your crazy ass then...ive seen the results. gonna have to have a talk with the hubster. maybe he can make somethin happen at 3am. on the sneak tip of course.
- Carlos Ayala
You're horrible, LOL. You know, he was supposed to have gotten a vasectomy a week before I found out I was pregnant with our first kid. And I'm convinced that your way is how we wound up with our second.
- Anika
sliding up @ 3am always does the trick....or so im told... /shrug
- Carlos Ayala
Ha. I work with three girls - two of whom are still solidly in diapers (2.5 years old and almost 1). I sometimes contemplate counting how many diapers I change in a day and then decide that would be too depressing. The 2 year old is starting to want to potty train and I'm STOKED.
- Lis
I'm on the countdown to potty training the last one. Both boys trained right around 25 months, so I'm hoping the girl follows suit, she's 21 months.
- Heather Solos
Two years later...I've just spray painted this black. It's finally going to be a compost bin. Finally. Two. Years. Later. *headdesk*
- Anika
Adrian has pointed out that the black diaper pail looks a bit like Darth Vader....so I may need some more paints.
- Anika
Hao, this is awesome! Remember how people were saying in the FF Feedback room, how they'd like services to be linked, but not important the feeds? THIS is the temp. solution. WOW. Are you going to implement a way to filter individually?
- Mona Nomura
It doesn't actually do that, Mona. If your account is in Friendfeed, it goes into your feed. Hao Chen is merely making it easier to get the URLs from FriendFeed.
- Mark Trapp
Looks great. I guess I'll have to look into Social Graph API a bit deeper. It's so much faster than FF API for network data.
- Benedikt Koehler
Oops, I meant UN-LINK services so it'll stop pulling into their feed BUT still enable their friends to link to their respective accounts. Thank you for catching that, Mark.
- Mona Nomura
It should be possible to use the Social Graph API to find services that are not imported into Friendfeed as well as friends' services not on FF. It's a bit tricky because it requires a lot of separate requests. Right now, it's only using the SG API to find your subscriptions across the services you import on FF.
- Hao Chen
Thanks, just don't look at the source code. LOL
- Hao Chen
Hao, this is awesome, this is going to save me so much time! Thanks!
- Shey
Very cool. However, my tiny brain is not grokking " Remove Connections Already Subscribed To". Please to explain.
- Laura Norvig
Laura, it's not very accurate, but it's supposed to remove links to people's accounts on the other networks you already subscribe to. For example, if I already subscribe to Bob on Twitter, it might remove the link to Bob's Twitter page in the big list.
- Hao Chen
very kool Hao....Im finding my fellow FF on other services!
- (jeff)isageek
Hao, this is very cool; I just used it to great success friending last.fm users.
- Pete D
Hao, since I am the lone step child, any idea why it would not work for me. I typed in my ID, nothing happens, no spinning wheel indicating it is thinking. Just looks at my sad face....LOL.
- R. Ferguson
Hoa - This is great. Can you add Blip.fm?
- Russellreno
this is so awesome Hao - great job!!!!!!!! look out for random add notifications from me :)
- Morgan
How does that work?I type in some user name in it,nothing happen...
- Steve Chou
Steve, what browser are you using? Any JavaScript errors?
- Hao Chen
Glad to hear you guys are finding uses for it. @Russell Right now, the list of services it displays is the list of services being imported by people's FF accounts, and since Blip.fm isn't a supported service yet, I can't add that in easily. I'll think about how to use the Social Graph API more effectively to do those things though.
- Hao Chen
This is just excellent, not wholly accurate like you say but brilliant. Now all I need is to add more contacts on FF ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Never seems to work for my own username.
- Andrew Trinh
Thanks, guys. :) Andrew, ah, looks like Social Graph doesn't see your FF subscriptions for some reason. http://socialgraph-resources.g... I'll re-code this using the Friendfeed API to get your subscriptions later.
- Hao Chen
Very cool Hao! I like seeing which less-common services people actually use. My list (and top 25 services) is http://friendfeed.com/e... Does your system count me twice for YouTube because I have 2 YouTubes? (seems like it might, from the Blog counts).
- Mitchell Tsai
It's not working for me either when I input my username.
- Steve Lowe
Ditto steplow. Looks like it should be awesome but sadly it's drawing a blank for my username. :(
- David Young
Indeed ! that's was very nice! Have you done anything special about this Bret? (Like twitter's folks)
- directeur
very nice. anyone could guess Friendfeed would make it.
- SolidSmack
from twhirl
We did move a few things around, but nothing temporary - the event inspired us to optimize a few things we had been meaning to optimize anyway.
- Bret Taylor
Teresa says that she was harassed by other players and later suspended from XBOX Live because she identified herself as a lesbian in her profile. When she appealed to Microsoft, she says they told her that other gamers found her sexual orientation "offensive."
- NoahDavidSimon
from Bookmarklet
One of the comments says it best: "You do not have freedom of speech in private businesses." That's the great thing about FREE enterprise and free markets: you're FREE to shop somewhere else. Try that with your soon-to-be-mandated government health care or your mail delivery, where if you don't like it, that's tough balls.
- Craig Eddy
not sure why Xbox is giving sexual orientation an option here. isn't the idea to shoot the other player? it might be best to have, "don't ask don't tell". I'm not sure players should know why a person is aiming a virtual gun at them. I'm not saying getting your kicks is wrong... but most of us don't sign up to get beaten up by bull queers.
- NoahDavidSimon
The PS3's PS Network's "Home" is FULL of lesbians.
- Will Higgins™
the question is more complicated then just sexual orientation. the question becomes more in terms of the nature of certain forms of sexual behavior. certainly we live in a free society where people should do what they want... but there is a certain sexuality to violence that we must address. on that matter is it appropriate at all for men and women to be shooting guns at each other? perhaps gender segregation is more complicated then our bodies. they don't let men and women play basketball together.
- NoahDavidSimon
it is a funny issue because it seems to really open up a sore spot. society simply can not address all the classifications of gender and sexuality. by simply identifying a character as straight or gay it limits the spectrum of psychological profiles. this is why our government should not create social contracts merely on who we like... but our civilization needs to create structures that reflect our architecture
- NoahDavidSimon
there is less an issue of gender orientation and more a dynamic of if a person is an objectifier or an objectified. is a person dominant or receiving. does a person get off on being shot at or not? being that this world is virtual... it doesn't even work because it is a waste... it is a sacrifice... a martyrdom of time we all choose. we are all there to be submissive to the machine. in...
more...
- NoahDavidSimon
Why put your sexual orientation in your profile? Politics, sex and religion have no place on a network where people just want to play games.
- Paul Grav
this assumes that it is just a game. I think politics, sex and religion have no place in the virtual world exactly because they do. it is an example of how transparency must be limited. we are all there to be submissive to the machine and therefor our hidden agendas might have symbolic implications that destroy the community. I'm not sure I would want to play this XBOX game.
- NoahDavidSimon
I hope she sues Microsoft and wins. Bad move on their part in this day and age.
- Robert Couture
The Code of Conduct is pretty explicit about this: "Don't create a gamertag or motto that other users may be offended by, this includes comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate any of the following: profane words/phrases, sexually explicit language, sexual innuendo, hate speech (including but not limited to racial, ethnic, or religious slurs), illegal...
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- Craig Eddy
So, even though I believe it, I wouldn't expect Microsoft to allow me to put "Jesus Loves You" in my motto. Nor would I expect "I only swing straight" to be allowed.
- Craig Eddy
I agree Craig. though I do giggle at the idea of someone shooting a virtual gun and telling you that g-d loves you.
- NoahDavidSimon
I'm actually less interested in the legalities in this... because I am certain that MSFT opened themselves up to this and they only have themselves to blame. What I am interested in is the very sexual dynamic of virtual hunting and why it might be threatening to bring in identity into this. certainly the industry opened themselves up to something when they created Tomb Raider and Street...
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- NoahDavidSimon
I'm certain there are no coded answers to these questions. we invite sexuality into the sphere. the virtual vixens are in fact very "lesbian" esque... and of course they also create a male hetero fetish. They are muscular and they are aggressive... the industry created this out of it's own desire to sell games. but in fact it is popular because it appeals to a desire for men to submit. to role play something that they can't in life.
- NoahDavidSimon
I believe that the user is very different the the character. you submit to being Lara Croft when you play her. you are not straight you are not a man. you are Lora Croft
- NoahDavidSimon
it is a matter of health to allow a certain level of libidinal desire that might be damaging to oneself. we as human beings might even be more healthy because we experiment with this other side. this duality. I'm not sure this should be coded as homosexual or transgender. if this element is dangerous to the game then it should not be an option.
- NoahDavidSimon
It's pretty obvious that most of the people commenting have very little familiarity with XBox Live. Microsoft has stated that putting anything that could be construed as sexual in nature in a user profile or gamer tag, puts a user's account in question. That being said, LIVE is hardly what I'd call a tolerant community, but microsoft would ban a gamertag like "StraightGamer" or "HeteroDude."
- Jon Anderson
yeah... I am not familiar with Live. the gender and preference is an option or no? the entire market for this is because the natural male instinct for hunting and fighting is taken away from society. people are repressed. if they invite the natural fetish into the sphere... then it is their fault
- NoahDavidSimon
There is no "sexual orientation preference" option, thank goodness
- Craig Eddy
oh... ok. that was not made clear in the piece. then I don't blame them for wanting to filter out those details. they shouldn't allow me to say I'm Jewish either btw. I question the very need for a user profile there. I'm not sure a VR shooting range where you don't know people is a place to make friends
- NoahDavidSimon
Most of the people I'm 'friends' with on LIVE I either know in real life or met through common interests sites/groups. Gaming with strangers can be -to say it nicely- effing terrible.
- Jon Anderson
wow... so "GayerGamer" was the dudes name. hypothetically if I were to change my name to say "HebrewHammer" that would probably be offensive as well? or say some dude whose name is "Christian"? MSFT is making a lot of discression here. I'm not sure I agree with that finding. essentially they are saying it is a name issue... but they have no problems with political discourse or...
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- NoahDavidSimon
There's a field in your profile called Bio, it's limited to 499 characters. You're prompted with "Enter some information about yourself.". If a fellow gamer has filled in their bio, I'd expect to see some generic stuff such as game preferences, location and maybe age.
- Paul Grav
You're not obliged to enter your real name. So if you're real name is "I hate christians" then there's no problem, because you're not obliged to enter it. You are obliged to enter a gamertag, which can be anything you like, expect for what MS judges to be offensive or controversial.
- Paul Grav
...especially as XB360 is populated by kids insisting on calling each other "fag" at every opportunity. She should call her lawyers.
- Chris Nixon
Chris the mere fact that there is bigotry does not mean you change the rules without a lot of thought. I wonder how much thought went into this. did they pull it right away; did they have a debate about the many ramifications. to me it isn't so much if the name is right or wrong... because I think there is a lot of context.
- NoahDavidSimon
There was no thought. Can you imagine the number of people that have questionable gamertags or bios? This one was a no-brainer.
- Paul Grav
I can't even understand how this was even contemplated. Idiotic complaints belong in the bin not matter how many there are. At the moment in the UK on a BBC kids TV channel, there is a presenter who has one arm cut off at the elbow. There have been hundreds of complaints from parents claiming this scares their kids. It is an idiotic fascist complaint, and the BBC rightly ignore them.
- Chris Nixon
Please don't take this the wrong way. I've been on x-box live since it came out. If you play any FPS like CoD you know the "high" caliber of some of the people you play with. There are a lot of juvenile delinquents on there. I can't count how many people I have muted and/or reported. There's no real bio on there where you can broadcast your sexual orientation so she chose to put that...
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- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
I just question her motives for putting lesbian in her profile. She was wrong for getting banned for it. Obviously, the people who harrassed her were wrong. They harrass everyone for any number of reasons. It still doesn't make it right.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
@Noah Sexual orientation isn't an option on xbox live profiles. she wrote it in.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
there is that context that I was contemplating. like the cartoon in Rupert Murdoch's newspaper that people feel is racist and Lou Dobbs on CNN says isn't... the question in the end is the context. and you can see obviously this girl is playing at people's inner demons and fears... and yes even bigotry. it was meant to provoke... and in doing so... for right or wrong about the ideal name being sexual or non.. should not be allowed.
- NoahDavidSimon
@Jason. How does MS know whether she is or isn't a lesbian? Anyone can put that in their profile. I think MS were right to take some sort of action.
- Paul Grav
I take it back about MSFT being to blame. they did the right thing. I thought they were creating facebook profiles on XBox and punishing people for saying they were gay. virtual fire ranges are no place to test to see if the boundaries of our society are fair. We know they aren't. It is a given.
- NoahDavidSimon
Is that the latest from Google Labs?? Babies delivered by email? Great no more morning sickness, and mood swings! I'm sure it's still in beta...
- Daan
1. Indications for all your feeds (not just DMs) to show the number of new posts and possibly new comments + Ability to click on the number and have it go to a page where it shows only these new posts (and probably ones that come in after) and not the old posts: http://beta.friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Kol Tregaskes
4. If the service icons are not to turn (which I’m kinda switching to liking) then we need the duplicate detector to be added with settings to prioritise selective services: http://beta.friendfeed.com/friendf... UPDATE: Dup detector is back but not perfect and still does not work with micro-blogging services. See suggestions...
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- Kol Tregaskes
IMPLEMENTED: 7. A “smooth” real-time feature – with real-time still on and new posts and comments coming in that are pushing entries down the page, have the post you are viewing mid-page down stay exactly where it is on your screen while the scroll bar moves down. Avoids the “jumping” effect: http://beta.friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Kol Tregaskes
8. New bookmarklet with the same new features the new share box.
- Kol Tregaskes
9. New Notifier which allows, for example, selection of your filters.
- Kol Tregaskes
Another reason to do the namespacing thing I was getting at elsewhere (i.e. /namlhaz/feeds/johnqpublic wouldn't prevent Mr. Public from signing up later). Which also allows me to have a "webcomics" private feed while other users also have one. :)
- Karl Knechtel
Karl, this could be a reasonably good workaround for my request for categories. I'd still need to tag the entries in some way but could use, for example, http://beta.friendfeed.com/koltreg... for my photography tagged posts, which I could share out in a nice tidy-ish URL. It's not perfect as I would need to use a unique tag name but not a bad solution. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Sort my groups based on update time the way it used to. I really miss that.
- amygeek
42. Sidebars move down with your viewing post or as Kevin Fox has suggested have the main body and the sidebars as 2 separate scrollable entities: http://friendfeed.com/friendf...
- Kol Tregaskes
Kol - PLEASE can we have daily/weekly email digest facility that we ALREADY HAD in the old FF?
- Matthew Todd
Bumping this FF ssuggestions at #betakoltaglist for my reference while Search is working. Feel free to comment and add your own suggestions but not these are very old and I'm using this weekend to go through them. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Ok, so people are deleting accounts left and right! Is anyone actually happy with a social media site or do we just like to find something wrong with *everything*?!
I like all 4 listed... Well... I don't use Buzz but I have no objection to it. The problem is we all have different use cases and levels of expectation. Hard to please everyone... and sometimes you have to go for the decision that secures your future that effects your largest body of users the least. All I can say is: easy to criticize, difficult if it was my job.
- Johnny
I love FriendFeed no matter what kind of drama goes on here. The people *overall* are amazing and I wouldn't have ever met any of you on sites like MySpace and Facebook. Yes, people are going to start drama, but you will find that everywhere! FFeeps, I love you!
- David Cook
I still like FriendFeed, and I haven't deleted any other accounts recently. Buzz sucks, but I'm keeping it in the hopes that Google might improve it. I don't have accounts on the other two.
- John (bird whisperer)
i tried Buzz but it blows up my email so I had to disable it. I never use MySpace anymore but I haven't deleted it
- Outsanity
I like FriendFeed for conversation though its vexing it hasn't much future. Like MySpace for their Miles Davis catalog, otherwise don't care about it, totally don't like News Corp or Murdoch. Don't like Facebook or Zuckerberg. I dislike networks where people impose on each other to authorize follows. I find that awkward on LinkedIn too though I do it some there. I love Twitter since I found interesting people who put out great link vomit. Got tired of Buzz, needs work, got spammy, needs API.
- Ed Millard
FriendFeed and Buzz have the best experience. Twitter is a great utility.
- Louis Gray
I'm with Johnny on this. All of these platforms can do different things in different ways - reaching different people. I am NOT going to delete my FaceBook account, I don't care who owns it. I don't expect anything to be private on the net - if you need to keep some private then don't put it on the internet in the first place. FriendFeed still rocks - it has all he features that users on Buzz are crying out for.
- Chris Loft
I like FF. Twitter is OK for what it is. Buzz will get better once it has lists and filters.
- Tinfoil 2.0
BTW, telling people not to share (online) if they want privacy isn't helpful. Privacy isn't secrecy, it's choices and control and trust. People share in myriad ways, online and off. As the internet becomes an increasing part of the way we live, why try to force people to suppress speech and stop sharing and withhold support, rather than just have systems that allow ALL of the ways that people want to communicate?
- Tinfoil 2.0
Matthew, I’m not sure what kind of numbers you would want. Do you want me to say that I know 3 people on MySpace, 6 people on Facebook and 3 people on FriendFeed that have deleted their accounts? This post *is* just a personal observation of people I happen to know. I’m not exactly keeping stats on how many people on each site are leaving due to not liking each individual site. I just...
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- David Cook
from email
i think people just dont fully understand what goes with having a social media site account. everyone just wants to be cool at 1st, then they realize that they are opening themselves up to many different elements. most of which, they arent ready for.
- Tofu De la Moore
I use friendfeed/facebook, hardly ever use twitter...As for privacy, theres no such thing as privacy anymore, the governments know all they need to know about us, lol :|
- Halil
Still pretty happy with the architecture at FF.
- Spidra Webster
FF, twitter is full of spam, keep facebook because of old friends and church members. Buzz, it's like Google Wave to me . . . useless (and I am a google fanboi).
- Friar Will
FF is great. Too bad they don't maintain it properly though.
- İlter Kalkancı
Something wrong with all of them. FF gets closest to what I want.
- JSLeFanu
We place too much importance on social media. I told my friends I was getting rid of my Facebook account and you would've thought I had decided to remove all of them from my life and join a convent in Tibet. It's just a website, folks. Remember phone calls? emails? That's how you used to get in touch with people if you really wanted to. We end up with so many contacts that we really...
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- Fleagle
I may not care what my old high school friends do in specific, but if they do something interesting, then I might be interested. That's the advantage of the FB information sharing model. It's useful to turn casual acquaintances into closer friends. On the other hand, I just deleted my Blippy account, because sometimes there's no point to information sharing.
- Otto
I'm sorry but this is unbelievable:) I'll give credit to the artist upon more convincing proof! The photogenic look of the tiger and lion really helps the artist's case though:)
- Roney Smith
I'm with Roney... I find this hard to believe... or maybe I'm just jealous that I can't even get stick people right!
- Jasmin Smith
I'm really happy everyone liked these. They're my most liked entry to date, Thanks! There also seems to be some question about whether these are actually Pencil Drawings.I can assure you that they are.When I get home, I should have the links. I have more drawings, too.
- Michael Fidler
from fftogo
Thanks Enrique, I'll post some more soon. They are a little more obvious than these ones. As Luke points out; without being able to look closely it's impossible to tell. He's right; but up close it's more obvious. I'll upload the originals to Picasa later, and then you'll be able to zoom in with any photo viewer and see for yourselves. I can't believe how many people liked these. A few people have reposted them already. Thanks!
- Michael Fidler
Absolutely awesome, Michael. You are extremely talented. Everyone should repost these pix and help to make you famous. You should be doing this full time - you obviously have some passion for this. Bravo.
- Chris Loft
These are really beautiful, Michael. Do you sell them?
- Shannon Jiménez
Chris, I would love to say they're mine, but it's not true. I've had them for a while, but I'll find the artists names. It will just require a little backtracking. Besides, they deserve the credit; all I did was find them:-)
- Michael Fidler
Cut the bullshit! :) Photos are very good.
- Burçak Çubukçu
I draw alot in pencil, but they are amazing, the best for me is the girl, that is the most photo-like one. :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
I agree Rob, the girl is amazing. My favorite by far! Wait until you see it close up! It's really had to tell, even up close!
- Michael Fidler
Burçak Çubukçu If these were photographs, they would be very good. As Pencil Drawings,(which they are), they're amazing.
- Michael Fidler
@Burçak Çubukçu I can't tell if your serious now or just kidding around. I hope your just having fun! If you are serious, I've never given you a reason to question my integrity, nor do I ever intend to. However, the second set is up now, so judge them for yourself, but don't judge me! http://ff.im/1BJh5 BTW, I messed up and reposted the shot of the women again. Oh well. Hope you like them:-)
- Michael Fidler
@Michael: try deviantART, not Picasa, to submit your artworks
- Zulkarnain K.
WOW "I can't believe it's in pencil"
- sofarsoShawn
LouCypher, I know it well, but I don't see why I would want to do that. I hope everyone knows by now that they're not mine? I'm sorry, but I can't say it any clearer than that.
- Michael Fidler
nah, i don't believe it is done in pencil. i am sure it is photoshopped :)
- hasin hayder
I'm finding this both interesting and humorous at the same time. There's a separate message board where this post is being discussed and it has another forty comments on it already. I think its great how this has created some lively discussion, considering that when I posted this I was doubtful if anyone would even like it. When I went to sleep last night there was only had 3 or 4 likes...
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- Michael Fidler
Very interesting. I would like to see them up close and in person...just to make sure. Bill said it's real and possible. Your 2nd set of picts look like pencil. Nice work in finding these!
- LaFern Cusack
Kol, I can't thank you enough! Kol found another post which helps to prove that these are done in pencil. I had my doubts about a few of them because I collected them from several different sites over time, but the site Kol found has done a great job pulling together an impressive collection of these drawings and more. Take a look - http://www.flickzzz.com/2009...
- Michael Fidler
Actually there are more than what this site shows. There's an entire set with the cats(little cats), which I have, and there's a new portrait set.
- Michael Fidler
Found your post here, Michael. :-) I tried my best to find the artists.
- Kol Tregaskes
Amazing and very very very good.... Very impressive ...
- Linda Zeek-Bobinski
Yeah we know, thanks though, James. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Excellent pictures - how long did it take you to scan the photographs into Photoshop and then edit them? The only pencil that has come into contact with these "drawings" is the Photoshop pencil. A tip - stop trying to fool people into thinking you are a "real" artist, because all you are doing is cheapening proper artist's works whom have spent hours creating real pictures as opposed to a few minutes on a graphics editing package.
- The Wimp
A bell does ring here. And I am remembering why I was so attracted to the tiger...and the lion for that matter. These are exact replicas of prints I had in our bedroom when I lived in Dallas. I had bought the prints (in color) at a department store,
- Melanie Reed
Actually, I have learned quite a bit about these drawing since I made this post. Not only have I discovered all of the artists, but I've learned more about how they are created. They are always copied from a photograph or painting, but usually a photograph. It is extremely time consuming and detail orientated work. There are many other artists besides the ones featured here who practice...
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- Michael Fidler
Most of them have portfolio's on deviantart.com and their work is truly amazing even if they are copies of other artists work. I suppose with this level of detail, they have to start with something. Nevertheless, I'm still in awe of their talent. Melanie, the animal prints you refer to are from a very well renowned photographer. The originals are B&W I'll look it up later but I do have...
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- Michael Fidler
Has anyone ever corrected the record and pointed out, with the exception of the Charlize Theron drawing, that these are indeed photos by Alexander Von Reiswitz?
- erik weisz
Erik, thank you for bringing this up again, but I think I already mentioned something about this in my prior comment. However, since it appears that you only signed up to friendfeed to leave a single comment, (ok, why?) I will try to summarize what I wrote previously. In brief, I learned after doing a little research that all photo-realistic drawings like the ones that I shared here,...
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- Michael Fidler
I can assure you that what are claimed to be drawings of animals, in your post here, are photos. I used a website to that allows you to do an comparison of the Von Reiswitz photos and the images you have posted here. There are no differences. Every hair matches up. As a pencil artist myself I can tell you that it's pretty much impossible to get that kind of accuracy and have it look...
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- erik weisz
but... it has to be real, i saw it on the internet
- Iphigenie
Eric, it doesn't matter to me if you just joined, and I apologize if I made you think otherwise. If you have any questions regarding friendfeed, please feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer them. At this point, I would be happy if we could find someone who is an image analysis expert, and finally point this thing to rest. Every time that I look into this, all I find is a...
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- Michael Fidler
the site spammed above must all be done in pencil too, right, thats why you posted it?
- Iphigenie
I'm amazed that people are still posting these photographs of animals and calling them pencil drawings. This is at least the third case I can remember (and there are probably more) of this happening. The myth about them being drawings was debunked long ago. It's also funny that whenever they get posted the person posting them doesn't make it clear that they aren't the artist, exactly as you have done.
- canadianmaple09
@canadianmaple09 I posted these back in March, 2009 when I was beginning to use FF regularly. I ran them through TinEye hoping to find their source, but it returned no results. When I ran through again yesterday, TinEye returned over four pages of results. If I had it to do over again, would I? Yes
- Michael Fidler
The people you refer do don't join "just to slam" someone, they are concerned members of the online art community that want to see real art appreciated and fake art or photos being passed off as drawings revealed for what they really are. Artists such as Brian Duey, Armin Mersmann, Paul Lung, Zindy Nielsen,and many others do not receive the appreciation they deserve because of scams like this.
- canadianmaple09
canadianmaple09, the worthiness of your motives notwithstanding (and they are worthy, definitely) you could definitely have approached Michael completely differently by say, giving him the benefit of the doubt rather than attacking in a highly accusatory tone.
- Chieze Okoye
When you've seen these same pictures posted multiple times by people that just find them on the internet and claim they are pencil drawings, when it has already been established on multiple occasions that they are not, the "benefit of the doubt" approach seems a little too generous. People post these images and claim they're drawings to get views for their own site or blog or page or whatever it is they post it on. It's wrong and it needs to be stopped.
- canadianmaple09
I can understand that, but you should also keep in mind that everyone is not as well-versed in the issue as you are. All I'm saying is that you would probably be more effective in this case if you weren't setting this up as a us-vs.-them, "must destroy with the validity my argument!" attitude when talking to a guy who's been actively having a discussion on the issue in what seems to me (having been around when he first posted the images and the follow up thread and what not) to be good faith.
- Chieze Okoye
Look at his first comment here. People clearly thought he drew them. He doesn't set the record straight. He also claims that they "are actually pencil drawings" and that "I have more drawings too." Later he claims that you need to look at them closer to see they are drawings and that he will "post the originals". Once again, this makes it sound like they are his. This follows the same...
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- canadianmaple09
Greg and Chieze, thanks for your support. I really appreciate it. @canadianmaoles09, for what it’s worth, I share your concerns about giving proper attribution when sharing also. However, I admit that I'm more conscious of it now than I was at the time of this post. Nevertheless, I have never taken credit for anybody's work here other than my own!
- Michael Fidler
BTW, I didn't realize it before, but I just noticed that you're new here too. I hope you like it so far and spend more time here. IMO, friendfeed is still the best thing around!
- Michael Fidler
I would probably qualify as an image analysis expert, but there's no way to prove that online. One thing we can do is look at color. Even though the images are black and white,they're actually RGB images, meaning they contain cyan magenta and yellow. If you look at the image of the rhino you have posted then look at the photo of the rhino at the photographer's site you can see they both...
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- erik weisz
While it's not Father's Day here until the first Sunday in September, I just wanted to wish Josh Hau`oli La Makuakane. I hope Sarah, Zack, Seth and Zoe know how lucky they are...
that roof shot should be a poster in the family room ;)
- Carlos Ayala
And while it may not be Father's Day here, I told Rachael that all the other dads on FriendFeed would be getting something... she let me buy two small packs of LEGO... International Misaligned Celebration Guilt Trips FTW!!!
- Johnny
Our 1 year anniversary in Portland was fun! OMSI, the 3D photography museum, and Voodoo Doughnuts were my favorite encounters. - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
Knowing me, someday when I have time I will try and do it up like a old movie poster. It's always that time factor that gets in the way.
- Rachel Lea Fox
There are some kids working on our neighbor's landscaping next door. I think I'll take half of these over to them. Cause temptation is a bitch. The mind is strong, but the flesh is weak.
- Derrick
Bryce, it's pink and it's strawberry, if I remember correctly.
- Derrick
Justin, they were fresh! Well, they were on 8/27. :(
- Derrick
Damnit. I've been wanting a Cruller for over a week!
- veo
Dangit Derrick! I done told you to stop with the tasty treats posts. Making folks hungry and stuff. I'll take two please. ;-)
- DB, Just DB #TeamMonique