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timepilot › Likes
You can now get a daily or weekly email digest for anybody's feed on FriendFeed. You'll get a daily or weekly email with the most popular posts from that person's feed. To get the email, click the "Email/IM" link at the top of anyone's feed, and select the "Best of day" or "Best of week" email option.
SteVe C, AJ Batac :), Brent and 254 other people liked this
You can see all of your email settings at http://friendfeed.com/setting...
- Bret Taylor
Thanks Bret! :)
- Matt Ruiz
Thanks to Kevin for doing a great design for what turned out to be a more complex set of UI options than we had originally anticipated, and thanks to Tudor for implementing the email backend.
- Bret Taylor
Great! Thanks! Love FF!
- Scott Monaco
I now get the FriendFeed Feedback posts as a Best of Day email so it doesn't fill up my feed, but I don't miss feedback. I also set up a "Best of Day" email for my "Technology people" friend list so I get a pretty good overview of tech news every day via email.
- Bret Taylor
This is a really cool idea Bret, I wish you can make that an RSS feed option as well. I'd be much more likely to read summaries in RSS than in email.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Mark: http://friendfeed.com/bret...
- Casey Muller
Lovely. Thanks guys.
- Mitchell Tsai
Casey: Thanks for the tip. What's the 7 before the "?" mean in the URL? The number of likes or replies needed to be included?
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
this is killer, the random influx of email during the day was kinda getting fail-ish. I love the daily digest.
- Drew Lucas
Very cool! Any way to get archives of previous months? (especially helpful for those of us who leave the internet for weeks at a time...)
- Mitchell Tsai
WOW. that's really helpful！
- K.D.
Looks like a great addition for those who are not embedded on the site. Nice intro.
- Louis Gray
Cool!
- Josh Haley
Just curious - at what time of the day will we get these emails ? Midnight US-Time, or will it respect our timezones ?
- Ahsan Ali
Ahsan: it is somewhat random right now when the emails are sent, but we built in the backend capability to control what time they are sent, and we plan on exposing that control to users in the future. Right now, it is kind of random - sorry!
- Bret Taylor
Thanks Bret
- Ahsan Ali
Cool! can i get a daily or weekly email digest for the "Saved searches"?
- 0M0M
from email
Cool
- Nimaa
This will be incredibly useful. Thanks to all involved in the design and execution.
- Kathy Fitch
Nice addition!
- Michael Fidler
But what exactly is "Best"? Is it anything that has a certain number of likes/comments?
- Laura Norvig
@Bret LOL THAT WAS MY PROJECT! I will release it tomorrow. But you've also did it and killed my friendfeed application **sigh** But mine has multi-reporting weekly-daily-monthly at the same time and adjustable entry count!
- Alp
@Bret please consolidate me or I won't code new apps with you api! :-)
- Alp
Alp: we were not trying to withhold data. Later today the documentation will be updated to reflect the ability to obtain "Best of" for users. The feed id will be USERNAME/summary/N (similar to "Best of" for lists)
- Benjamin Golub
Hi Ben, that is pretty funny, I tried that URL earlier today to see if it has been secretly released :)
- Paul Kinlan
Bret: While Twitter struggle to keep their fail whale under control, you guys are developing stuff like this. Amazing - Thanks!
- Jim Connolly
awesome feature, this will be highly useful for my corporate group ideas / content sharing; projects, etc.... THANK YOU :)
- Susan Beebe
Great work. I especially like that it works on lists too.
- Meryn Stol
my inbox might say different, but I like that :-)
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
Wow, this is really neat! And it links into the idea I expressed earlier, re: reducing signup friction / enabling limited guest privileges. Imagine if I could embed one of my FF rooms on my personal web site, and enable people to subscribe to that feed by e-mail with just a couple of clicks... rather than saying "you can get e-mail notifications but you have to sign up for Friendfeed first." "sign up" -- though admirably lightweight on FF -- is still a huge barrier.
- Adam Lasnik
is there a love button cause I dont like this option I LOVE this option..great work guys
- (jeff)isageek
Three options I would like (1) Can I select "top 100" instead of "top 30"? (2) Could I select both "best of day" and "best of week"? (3) How about older timeperiods? I'd love to get an e-mail with stuff from last week or Mar 2009? Start & end dates? Anything to help me read FriendFeed off-line would be great since I spend long periods off-line at festivals (especially during summer time) or overseas. - Awesome job guys!
- Mitchell Tsai
So this works on groups too, cool! But we still cannot see Best of for groups on the site on friends lists. :-( I have several friends lists that include just groups and when I select to view the best of the page it's empty (even though if I got to the individual best of for those groups there are entries there).
- Kol Tregaskes
does anyone know of a web service that can do this? (I'm thinking weekly email updates of my favorite feeds/people) I don't think there's anything like friendfeed ..
- Friendfeed's Francisco
That's a cool feature
- Xitong Liu
FWIW this isn't working for me any longer. Perhaps that has something to do with my Gmail settings though.
- Mark J
Emails no longer get sent except for Subscriptions. The last non-sub email I recieved was July 15th, 2011.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
I still get them.
- AJ Batac :)
I get these every day.
- CW✔
FriendFeed API v2 officially launching - http://blog.friendfeed.com/2009...
9000, Sean Kelly, Vezquex and 76 other people liked this
"Two weeks ago, we launched version 2 of the FriendFeed API in beta. Since then, we've watched how developers have been using the API and collected a lot of their feedback. We've implemented some changes, and now, we're ready to remove the beta label!"
- Bret Taylor
from Bookmarklet
A two weeks beta in the 2.0 era sounds almost blasphem! Congrats!
- Simone Ruffilli
Congrats to Ben and Gary for all their hard work getting this out the door. And thanks to all the developers who have been sending us great feedback the past couple weeks.
- Bret Taylor
now.we.play /-)
- Nicolas Voisin
Bret - Think we'd all be interested in a longer list as more apps make use of the API. Great stuff
- Charlie Anzman
FriendFeed API v2: Real-time, OAuth, file attachments, and more - http://blog.friendfeed.com/2009...
A. T., Bojan Babic, Taras Brizitsky and 202 other people liked this
"Today we are launching version 2 of the FriendFeed API for beta testing. We focused on making the API simpler to use, and we added number of compelling new features." Documentation: http://friendfeed.com/api...
- Bret Taylor
from Bookmarklet
OAuth? Sweet. Thanks a lot for all the new good stuff in the API: can't wait to use it.
- Mark Trapp
very nice. great work!
- Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど
Yet another reason to like Bret. :-)
- Jesse Stay
nice!
- Daniel Rust
good job guys, I bet devs are jumping high right now
- Dobromir Hadzhiev
Sweet, congrats!
- Ivan Zuzak
nice, good to see OAuth support, this will enable a larger 3rd party ecosphere around FriendFeed, I hope
- Jeroen De Miranda
After going through the documentation and playing around with some feeds, I love the fact that you can now see the subscriber lists of people who have their feeds set to private as long as you are subscribed to them and authenticate (mimicking the main site functionality). One thing that's absent is a discussion of Direct Messages. Do they show up in feeds if you authenticate? How do we find just direct messages?
- Mark Trapp
Mark: direct messages are accessed using the feed ID "filter/direct". Read more about feed IDs at http://friendfeed.com/api.... Also direct messages appear in the "home" feed.
- Benjamin Golub
Benjamin: ahhh, I see it now. I missed it when skimming that list over. Thanks!
- Mark Trapp
Can you post the wget version of the command line?
- Gabe
Gabe: wget --user=bgolub --password=passwd --post-file=MyPhoto.jpg http://friendfeed-api.com/v2... should work. In theory. Edit: nope. I'm not sure it's possible to do with wget.
- Mark Trapp
Thanks God it is New API.
- Ahmet Alp Balkan
from iPod
Nice progress here with this release!
- Micah
I love it!
- friday night
Why is wget questionable?
- Gabe
Gabe: wget doesn't support multipart forms as a design decision. If you post a file, FriendFeed returns a 404, and if you post data, the query is too long for wget to handle.
- Mark Trapp
cool : )
- Gurkan Oluc
Good work, look forward to seeing what developers can create
- Joe Dawson
doublepluslike
- Vezquex
curl FTW.
- Jeremy Kunz
This is great, FriendFeed team. Good job.
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
Woowoo, bgolub's password is “passwd” ;-)
- Amit Patel
Amit: I wonder how many people tested that :)
- Benjamin Golub
Thanks to bgolub posting his password, I now have all of FriendFeed's secret documents about notorious users, useless metrics, Justin Timberlake's promoting FF on Oprah's show, hiring Colbert as a spokesperson, Ev Williams being just a “distraction”. TechCrunch is going to love this! ;)
- Amit Patel
Yes big big thanks to the whole team for all their hard work!!
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
from iPhone
thank you;) waiting for the release :) loving clone
- abdellah
from FriendFeed API Example
Yay subscribers exposed!
- EricaJoy
Finally OAuth, I had a hard time memorizing my remote key.
- Hugh Isaacs II
This is indeed very cool, anybody started on a c# version?
- Jesper Lind
FriendFeed Blog: Summer offsite 2009 - http://blog.friendfeed.com/2009...
Bindu Reddy, Susan Beebe, Ankit Ahuja and 19 other people liked this
Are Karen and Jim doing some kind of chicken-walk dance in this photo? http://friendfeed-media.com/eecf2a8...
- Casey Muller
http://friendfeedstats.appspot.com/ it's alive!
Harry Sting, Penguin, Vasudev Ram and 11 other people liked this
Nicely done. I suppose you POST crawl data into it or...?
- Aviv
Nope, I hit a special URL (using curl via cron from my server) and App Engine does the crawling
- Benjamin Golub
Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense
- Aviv
Yes, and it's crazy fast!
- Benjamin Golub
what about rssmeme? or is there too much crawling involved?
- Aviv
technically with rssmeme you could have the crawl super fast if you add all the google shared feeds to google reader and then have AppEngine hit up Reader (although not sure if urlfetch supports cookies). That should make for an interesting hack
- Aviv
I'm going to look into getting RSSmeme on App Engine next, it's just a "bit" bigger than FriendFeed Stats :P
- Benjamin Golub
After DNS propagates the old URL (http://www.friendfeedstats.com) should point to the App Engine...I hope
- Benjamin Golub
Nice! Looks like it went pretty well. Of course, that means all the data is gone now :P
- Brandon Titus
Yes, it's gone, I could import it all if people get really antsy, but it's not like it was running for very long in the first place. People won't even notice after a few weeks.
- Benjamin Golub
trying to search user gets file not found- must be that missing data
- Nathan Eckenrode
Yup, if it doesn't find you then it 404s, use FriendFeed more often and it will find you! http://friendfeedstats.appspot.com/bgolub... works for instance
- Benjamin Golub
Only my stuff for April is on FFstats now. Will this be fixed?
- Corvida
I'll look into importing the old data from my server to App Engine....but it might be a little while (or never).
- Benjamin Golub
Wow, appengine is turning out to be painfully simple to implement. Congrats on such a quick port!
- Bwana ☠
It's simple to port if you originally developed in Python :)
- Benjamin Golub
Does BigTable prevent you from doing complex db operations? It seems like the inability to join or use "OR" is limiting?
- felix
Ya, it is limiting (and that's why I doubt RSSmeme will be ported to it)
- Benjamin Golub
very interesting
- accexine
Further epicness of Shake Shack. If there is a reason to have a meetup in New York, this is it. Come, my bretheren.
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Anna Haro, Cynthia Yildirim, Aram Zucker-Scharff and 39 other people liked this
I think I'd have to have dialed 9 and 1 when I started eating some of that.
- caj needs a haircut
DAYUM that looks GOOOOOD
- Josh Haley
OH my gooooooooood
- Rasmus Lauridsen
*mops up after herself and the husband* mmmmmmmmm... Me likey...
- Bette Cooper
OMW.
- Derrick
stomach hurting just from looking at all that food
- Holly is Happy
*sheds a little tear* so how much are tickets cross the Atlantic again? That is so SO beautiful
- Rasmus Lauridsen
So I got pea. Any other takers? Mona left NYC =(
- Mike Nayyar
Wow. Just wow.
- ha3rvey (Hugs 50% off!)
Oh damn...the cheese on those fries...YUM. Reminds of my old job. I am so there.
- Anika
nom nom nom /obligatory
- Moody (Sweet FA 4 Life)
If we had a FF Meetup there, Facebook would buy US, too!
- Mike Nayyar
I mean shake shack is yummy but the line there can sometimes take you an hour to get through if you pick the wrong times on a sat afternoon in the summer. to that point, it's not worth the wait lol. i have waited on many a shake shack burger though, but mostly bcuz i wanted some decent food and time to catch up with my friends. be prepared to wait.
- Liz
One of these days I'll have to stop by to see what the fuss is all about.
- ronin
I had to go to New York for business to assist in opening up the new office there, and it's right across the street from Shake Shack. I was pissed to have to go home.
- Andy Bakun
Fries! I want those Fries!
- Sardar Mohkim Khan
MAN that looks good!
- Kevin Nunez
NOM!
- David Cook
Oh, the nomanity! I think Scott and I need to come up for a FFeedup!
- Ladyepiphanybug
OOOOH man, this is the first thing that comes up when you Google me.
- Mike Nayyar
You should be proud.
- Eric
Well damn.
- Derrick
oh my god, it came back! Now I gotta get burgers for tonight! Thank you for that Derrick :-)
- Rasmus Lauridsen
I want to go now...I haven't been there in a year :(
- Mike Nayyar
That looks delicious!
- Cynthia Yildirim
Auto Facial Attractiveness Enhancement Engine - http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~tommer...
Carrie Thomson, natasha william, Suresh S and 127 other people liked this
This is amazing. I think we should automatically apply it to all profile photos ;)
- Paul Buchheit
Facial discrimination?
- Jason
Impressive.
- j1m
Can I get one for the body as well as the face?
- Dion Almaer
Very interesting. Hope they post the download link soon so that we can all play with it.
- Brady Brim-DeForest
It seems as if the main problem with most people in the examples shown is their forehead is too short or too narrow. Wonder if there's a subtle clue that big brains are beautiful there! :)
- Lindsay
@Jason - that's an interesting concept. Would you be more likely to trust the girl on the left or right? Would you be more likely to talk to either one of them at a party (or more intimidated by either one?).
- Lindsay
Right one looks more dumb...
- philsmirnov
Notice that for all the women they soften the jaw, while squaring it for men. Everyone also gets a slightly thinner face and upturned almost smiling lips.
- FFing Enigma
@SB yeah and the forehead adjustment... almost like there is a triangle with the forehead at the point and they flip it so the chin is the bottom of the triangle... weird.
- Lindsay
They are different women! Blame Paul! : )
- Erhan Erdoğan
impressive
- accexine
Lindsay: whenever sketching generic faces, the face starts as an inverted triangle and the eyes appear a third of the way down from the top of the forehead; lips and nose appear below and above (respectively) a line 1/3 up from the chin. Looks like these pictures are rearranged to meet that particular school of drawing.
- FFing Enigma
That is interesting yet odd. Seems that the faces are slendered with the software.
- Jim Goldstein
from twhirl
I wonder what would come out of applying their algorithms to face of black or asian person? Different countries have different concepts of beauty.
- arty
This technology should be made available in eye glasses, just imagine how much better your work day can be!
- Claude Betancourt
Paul - Think you should definitely add the option. "Click here to be beautiful without the expense of plastic surgery! .... and you may even get more 'Likey's" :)"
- Charlie Anzman
Some of the stuff coming out of Siggraph this year is really freaky. How about combining this with the automatic video editing stuff? ;)
- Joe Beda
without a doubt amazing. It's incredible how subtle the changes are yet massive difference.
- Zee.
Huh, that's pretty crazy. Creepy, but cool. :)
- felix
I haven't read the paper, but I wonder if it adapts to different notions of "attractive" (that changes from culture to culture ...)
- Rui Pires
+1 @Claude I was thinking the same thing! Incorporate this software in wearable monitor glasses, and the whole world would be beautiful! I'll bet we can look for these on the shelves in the U.S. just before November. Social media and reality enhancement software have put Winston Smith out of a job.
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
do i sense another manga-style meme starting?
- anna sauce
So, if it turns me into Gilbert Godfried... what does that mean?
- Ⓒⓗⓡⓘⓢ Ⓟⓘⓡⓘⓛⓛⓞ
You know, if these guys had gotten together with the realtime video+photo enhancement folks and approached the Beijing Olympic Comittee then that singing girl in the opening ceremonies might not have had to been replaced with a body double. (Yeah, I just brought three of this week's biggest memes together. I'll be here all week.)
- Kevin Fox
The artist proportions were laid out by the Greeks as the perfect human, that's not being used here. This beautification engine, I think, builds on top of a previous study where some students tried to mathematically identify attractiveness. They had participants rate the attractiveness of head shots from yearbooks. What they found was there was a high correlation b/w the geometrically "average" face and high attraction. That "average" is based on the proportions of the di
- xero
stances between the individual elements of the face and their relative sizes. IIRC the software adjusts elements so they statistically/geometrically complement each other. It's not actually working toward a golden set of proportions, but a set of proportions appropriate for the individual as defined by the masses. I wouldn't think of it as "facial discrimination" so much as "deviation from ones potential".
- xero
I'm waiting for the first Facebook application that automatically enhances your profile picture like this. Every social network should run this on the avatars. Beautiful people!
- Benedikt Koehler
Can you imagine the controversy if dating sites got a hold of this?
- xero
@paul automatically apply it to all profile photos, huh? are you sure you ready for results? check my picture - try to see wonderful cossacks writing infamous letter to Turkish Sultan :)
- A. T.
I wonder if they'll turn Mickey Mouse into Mighty Mouse
- Dave Q
@Lindsay; A)Maybe/? 1=Left 2=Right 3=N/A
- Jason
this will have a lot of practical applications to create a (virtual) world of beautiful (or more acceptable facially) people.
- Apostolos Tsompanopoulos
Just a complicated high tech implementation of beer goggles.
- Hayes Haugen
Chris' comment is sooo tempting
- Charlie Anzman
This is what came up as the top Google hit for paul buchheit friendfeed.
- Spidra Webster
I just read the first comment and may I ask why we should apply it automatically to all profile pictures??? Who are we gonna kid that way?!
- ambidextrous
it's long gone.
- Joe The Sausage
It's down :(
- Burcu Dogan
cannot open this link,404 is there~
- 阿石
People are still arguing with @scobleizer about FriendFeed? It's like arguing with Soulja Boy or Waka Flocka about why Hip Hop is dead.
Thierry R. Andriamirado, Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど, Wulffy and 34 other people liked this
The SxSw crowd? You mean...they're an authority on something?
- Rah-PM 2012
TOTAL LOL
- iTad
Don't get me wrong, @scobleizer is that dude in most cases, but arguing with him is an exercise in futility. He's not normal. It's like trying to convince Mo Kargas he shouldn't kill all humans, or telling Louis Gray to take a nap.
- Rah-PM 2012
A second "like" for that last comment, Rahsheen.
- Jack&Cleo
It's useless. What is the point?
- Louis Gray
werd. I find their squabble boring. Back to work... :)
- imabonehead
I keep LOL'ing at Joe asking "who the hell is TED?"
- Rah-PM 2012
Louis: take a nap! :-)
- Robert Scoble
Kinda sorta, winckel.
- Rah-PM 2012
But Audrey loves Soulja Boy!
- Rochelle
My boys both love Soulja Boy, Waka Flocka, New Boyz, and all that other crap on the radio. I can't be mad, they don't know any better.
- Rah-PM 2012
I've never even heard of Waka Flocka. He/She/They don't get much play on NPR.
- Derrick
People still listen to radio that isn't NPR? ;)
- Sam Levine
Dirty little secret: I have always associated SXSW with music and can't for the life of me figure out why all these tech people are there romping it up. (ok, I know, but it will always be a MUSIC conference to me).
- Martha
Same with my parents. My dad plays bass and mom used to be a promoter. They feel the same way as you :)
- Rah-PM 2012
Back in my band days, the ultimate was to get a gig playing SXSW. So it will always be that way for me. How cool that your parents were both in the biz. Now I see where the musical talent comes from.
- Martha
This is either the smartest or silliest sign ever… Either way, it’s bloody hilarious. - http://www.zee.me/blog...
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Michael R. Bernstein, Far, mikepk and 18 other people liked this
LOL good one zee
- Allen Stern
thought you'd like it :)
- Zee.
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty - http://us.battle.net/sc2beta...
Shey, timepilot, Kelly W. and 7 other people liked this
"Blizzard Entertainment is pleased to welcome all of our beta testers to the first phase of the StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty beta test. You will have an early opportunity to play, test, and experience the online multiplayer aspect of StarCraft II, as well as get a first look at the newly revamped Battle.net."
- Benjamin Golub
from Bookmarklet
I don't think I have access to the beta. Did anyone get an email?
- Benjamin Golub
I don't think emails have gone out yet. If you have a BattleNet account with a beta profile set up you can get it from there.
- Brandon Titus
"Will there be a Mac version of the beta client? We plan to release a Mac version of the beta client at some point during the beta test period. We’ll have further details to share as the beta test progresses. " :(
- Benjamin Golub
hmmm, i signed up for beta testing a while back, so i just logged on to my b.net account to see if it said anything. can't find anything new except a small icon next to "beta profile settings" which is an SCbeta icon, but it goes the same place as the setting link.... anyone else see that?
- Nicķ
I see the same thing
- Benjamin Golub
from iPhone
well, it seems like a good sign. *crosses finger*
- Nicķ
Unbelievable Poker Hand AA vs KK vs QQ + insane fold - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Dan Hsiao, timepilot, Kevin Fox and 7 other people liked this
Nuts.
- Louis Gray
She must have a Friendfeed feed in Google Reader, I never thought of doing that.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Nah, my YT shares come here and Google Reader. My Google Reader shares come here too so its a dual posting situation. I spose I could turn off the direct YT shares.
- EricaJoy
Erica, I'm actually just wondering how you came across the video, I shared it here maybe 2 hours ago. LOL
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Oh I saw it here then favorited it. :) Then <insert little arrow pointing back to first comment>
- EricaJoy
It's definitely one of the most bizarre hands I've ever seen though. :)
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Oh ditto. Although I never trust pocket rockets, EVER. I have been burned by those evil twins far too many times. He was nuts for going all in on that.
- EricaJoy
Yeah, I've had mediocre success with them as well, oddly one of my favorite hands is 84, had more than my fair share of wins with that hand. :)
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Wow. Ice cold.
- Rah-PM 2012
Wow.
- Chieze Okoye
I think that was Patrik Antonius commentating, "poor play gets rewarded while good play gets punished." sucked to see the king river. I don't know how he folded those kings.
- chrisofspades
This is why I will never be able to play poker for money. Crazy!
- Mark J
39325
urdumania1, vovasty, Johnny and 121 other people liked this
ha nice!
- Wesley Barrow
from '95
- Paul Buchheit
Summer intern?
- Mike Doeff
Yeah, Sanjeev was also there that same summer as it turns out.
- Paul Buchheit
Crazy.
- Eric
oooh look at how young and cute Paul is! :) very cool that you saved this! What was your job title then (intern for ______)? What location did you work at? Does that # mean you were the 39,325 employee hired by M$?
- Susan Beebe
I bet I could find mine if I tried, too.
- Gabe
I wish I still had my Apple badge. They made me give it back when I left.
- Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
Do I sense a meme coming?
- Chris Lamprecht
Yeah, unfortunately I don't seem to have any pics of my Sun badge, so I can't collect the whole set :(
- Paul Buchheit
bummer! collection is busted
- Susan Beebe
my work badges are boring white - no logo..nothing - designed for max security I guess
- Susan Beebe
Gary, Paul and I both worked in Redmond. Paul worked on Plus! Setup.
- Gabe
Oooh I remember Plus! that was really cool and made Win95 rock!
- Susan Beebe
Ex-PM in Developer Tools here. Visual J++ for the um, ...
- DeWitt Clinton
Maybe it would be more efficient for everyone who didn't work at Microsoft to raise their hand.
- DeWitt Clinton
How cute ;)
- Bindu Reddy
I worked on Win NT, debugging OLE. It was pretty bad because the NT OLE code was fine; all the bugs were in 16-bit OLE apps. There are few things worse than debugging interactions between two 16-bit apps you don't have the source to!
- Gabe
Wow, 16 bit OLE. Why didn't you force everyone to use 32bit Word and Excel? It would've been very Apple of you.
- Eric
Yup, Redmond. I think I worked in building 4, which may not exist anymore, and lived across the street at "Timberlawn". I worked on the installer for "Plus Pack for Windows 95".
- Paul Buchheit
Eric, it gets worse: one of the first apps I had to look at was Ichitaro, Japan's #1 word processor at the time. It sure would have made things easier if I could have forced everybody to only use 32-bit English apps!
- Gabe
Awesome, Paul.
- Christopher Sacca
I tried, and I can't remember my ORCL employee number any more! Does that mean I've finally put it all out behind me?
- Tudor Bosman
My Intel WWID was 10599476, but I get the feeling that they added at least 10,000,000 to the employee number to generate that value.
- Paul Buchheit
I've already forgotten my Google employee number. I think my Yahoo! number was right around 9000...
- Kevin Fox
Ok here's a picture of my current ones I mentioned - sorta boring white plan ID badges http://friendfeed.com/e...
- Susan Beebe
haha, cool... And I didnt even know that I´m apparently the only person on friendfeed who hasn´t been a summer intern at Microsoft
- Peter Efland
At least they gave you a top-30 number at Google :)
- Charlie Anzman
Once again proving that you're "kind of a big deal". Nice badge!
- Randy Holloway
from twhirl
*swoon*
- Yuvi
I wonder if it was some kind of foresight to hang on to your old Microsoft badges, but not your diplomas.
- Clare Dibble
Nice, a blue badge. I consult for Microsoft and have an Orange badge.
- Alan Le
Wow! I was there that same summer interning for "Office Team Manager" I must have started a week or 2 before you as my employee number was 39207.
- Joe Beda
I think I returned my badge, so I can't remember what my employee number was. I worked on porting the standard ms installer from windows to the mac.
- Private Sanjeev
Sanjeev - a worthy cause for sure! :P
- Susan Beebe
It was a piece of code that Ben Slivka wrote to produce cab files :)
- Private Sanjeev
My MS ID was #38440 @ Microsoft... There were around 17k employees when I joined in 1995.
- Steve Lacey
You seem very happy in this picture. There's still so much hope and optimism in that face.
- April Buchheit
Old school.
- "Joey"
Bubbling entry to make the Microsoft people (http://friendfeed.com/paul...) feel better (or worse) :)
- Paul Buchheit
Bubbling? Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
- Gabe
those are nice glasses :)
- bob
They are nice glasses, aren't they? Maybe I should switch back.
- Paul Buchheit
:D
- Susan Beebe
cute Paul :D
- Nimaa
You look not unlike Bill in that photo.
- Kevin Fox
If we can't catch a Nigerian with explosives in feminine underpants, whose father alerted the U.S. embassy, whose ticket was bought in cash, who didn’t check bags, whose visa was denied by the UK, who studied in Yemen, whose name was on a watch list, who can we catch? - http://origin.reddit.com/r...
Neşe, mustufa, Jens Holze and 80 other people liked this
Damn...
- Rah-PM 2012
:|
- AJ Batac :)
If only he'd been using OpenID with the new 'terrorist' attribute.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... ? :)
- Tudor Bosman
wow
- .LAG liked that
Maybe we're not trying to catch terrorists? Maybe we're trying to manufacture excuses to more tightly control US citizens, and terrorism is just the rationalization du jour?
- Mr. Gunn
I second .LAG's "wow"
- Jan Ole Peek
We need better spam filters to stop the Nigerians before they ever get through, they're all trouble.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Maybe they're thinking if they let one underpants bomber get through, then they have justification to go to war on all underpants.
- Morton Fox
What does the 'studied in Yemen' part mean?
- Andrew C (✓)
from Android
Next, only masculine underpants will be allowed on flights.
- Ruchira S. Datta
They're waiting until they fileshare. Once these guys fileshare, they're toast.
- Spidra Webster
exactly! ... this was, again, inside operation - the guy was just let go /aided even/ to board that plane. ..the good thing is, that unlike 9/11, inside job was set up so that no fatalities occur - bomb did not explode. i like that ... http://krunchd.com/inside , http://WorldNewsRecord.wordpress.com , http://Twitter.com/911news , http://Friendfeed.com/911news
- pb:
I read this week that the two most important changes to airline security since 9/11 are re-enforced cockpit doors and that now passengers know to fight back. Who knows how many plans have been thwarted by the first, and between 1 and 3 have been thwarted by the second (depending how you count it: Flight 93, the shoe bomber, and the underwear bomber).
- Kevin Fox
I'm with you Cristo....heavy on the incompetence.
- Bonnie Foster
Never attribute to conspiracy that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.
- Joel Webber
from BuddyFeed
wow
- ★ Soner Gönül
sublata causa tollitur morbus
- A. T.
*remove the cause - sickness will go away itself* - old medical proverb (yes, in Latin)
- A. T.
if people can crash a White House party and it goes on and on
- just ZONED
I'm not convinced this can adequately be explained by incompetence. I don't know that there was a conspiracy, but I can't dismiss the possibility given the depth of incompetence required. Assuming conspiracies never happen is as mindless as assuming everything is conspiracy.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
It *is* pretty interesting that people bitch about too much airport security until there's a thwarted bombing, then they say there's never been enough.
- Kevin Fox
Anyone know the names of the companies who are making whole body scanners? I think I need to buy some stock.
- Victor Ganata
Victor: http://www.cyberware.com/
- Rochelle
Kevin - There's a reason for the "no getting up last hour" rule, and it's not to prevent a terrorist from going to the bathroom. It's to prevent innocent people with headscarves from being tackled by well-meaning but jittery passengers.
- Mr. Gunn
As I understand the TSA strategy, it involves catching anyone who tries to do something that has already been tried. In other words, we're preparing for the previous "war" rather than the next one.
- Mark J
In other words, the TSA strategy = FAIL.
- Victor Ganata
Seriously. An amazingly _expensive_ FAIL. All that time, people-power, money spent, so we can hear platitudes about why it did not work or that there are things that can be improved.
- Rick Cogley
Three hours delay at Paris CDG for this the following day on-route to Detroit. Most of this spent in the queue at the departure gate as they had only one male and one female officer to carry out an intensive search of 300 pax and their carry-ons. Explanations from Air France were very sparse, fortunately I'd caught all the details on Sky News at Manchester.
- Nick B.
@Chris..No, I do not think there is one big conspiracy, and that all is conspiracy. Let's please stick to FACTS and lets debate that. ok? (1). Detroit bomber was on a Britain 'no-entry' radical Islamist list. IF THIS will not hint CIA FBI DHS TSA to not only not to allow this guy in the US, BUT ALSO to search him down while boarding, then I DO NOT believe it was complete imbecile fail...
more...
- pb:
@Chris.. further, please understand, that nanothermite high military explosive was found on the site of 9/11 WTC controlled demolition inside operation pretext for wars, just as pools of molten steel. please understand that buildings were PULVERIZED with the speed close to free fall, 11 floors per second .... NoT possible other than masterpiece controlled demolition, per irrefutable scientific evidence .... i mean, have you seen the video footage? http://ae911truth.org
- pb:
HOW do you colonize countries in the age of airplanes as suicide weapons, of people willing to die in a suicide and terror act to resist occupations, in the age of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons? ....these wars are a big mistake .. http://krunchd.com/911 pretext for wars
- pb:
This adds new dimensions to "Liar, liar, pants on fire."
- Barbara Langham
Men’s Health Rips Off Men’s Health [PIC] - http://www.zee.me/blog...
![Men’s Health Rips Off Men’s Health [PIC]](http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/zee/nJzJbgnIjzjfzwmIifpujJexAsloDoxqmfgfgvBxskdpetacaHGlobDvEuyx/media_httpsbuzzfedcomstaticimagebuzzterminal012009121013menshealthripsoffmenshealth29987126046843819jpg_anGHnrFrBEizzzd.jpg.scaled500.jpg "Men’s Health Rips Off Men’s Health [PIC]") |
ciw, Neşe, Balkan and 34 other people liked this
hahahah geesssh
- Shevonne
I've always wondered how these magazines keep the content coming.
- Kenton
omg, they seriously recycled themselves. I bet you could find a women's magazine that did the same thing.
- Kamilah Reed (K. Gill)
Funny how they put more emphasis on the DRESS FOR MORE SEX the second time around...
- Kamilah Reed (K. Gill)
You see this happen a lot . I get my Runner's World mag, thinking, "I already got this." Go check and they have the same headlines with different articles inside. And I swear the woman on the front has been on there 5 times in the past 2 years and they just photoshop clothes onto her.
- Anika
I'm sure one article is about abdominal muscles and the other about ABS as a choice of material for plastics injection molding. I'll bet they get into the whole how far can you take regrind percentages before quality drops below customer expectations of product longevity. But maybe they just avoid explosive controversies as such.
- Micah
Guess they are running out of original stories to publish...
- TrafficBug
wow that's taking the concept of evergreen articles a bit too far
- Dave Saunders
Compete reports FriendFeed traffic now is below last year's numbers. Down 21% month over month as well.
Steven Perez, Durukan Duru, Daniel Mietchen and 63 other people liked this
: (
- michael sean wright
I'm still here damnit!
- Glenn Slaven
Not me! I left a long time ago! (p.s., I can quit whenever I want)
- Louis Gray
The lightweights left. Good riddance.
- Spidra Webster
Figures. FF may have jumped the shark when it sold out to Facebook. But at least we diehards continue to stick around...
- Dennis Jernberg
my feed is jumping more than ever. something in those stats must be broken or skewed.
- Joe The Sausage
I've been getting a rather healthy influx of new subscribers.
- Mark Davidson
Everyone's experience is different, Joe. I believe, in aggregate, that these numbers are correct. That doesn't impact my own behavior, of course.
- Louis Gray
definitely less noise
- holly #ravingfangirl
oh, yes.
- Joe The Sausage
ff's dying:(
- Igor Poltavskiy
not so Igor
- Mitch
Compete.com is Incomplete, Bill. :)
- Louis Gray
it's not dying, Igor, it's just losing the "flavour of the month" people who like to talk to the mirror.
- Joe The Sausage
I've been hit with a bunch of new followers lately. I'm still doing the same ole thing, I think. Plus, I found the librarians (or maybe they found me?).
- Derrick
@Derrick: in the end, The Librarians find us all!
- Joe The Sausage
well, that's not entirely true.
- Joe The Sausage
Derrick - it was a mutual thing :)
- holly #ravingfangirl
Well, FF is probably the best of the last round of linear conversation and aggregation tools, largely thanks to the lack of overhead and fluff (the users contribute plenty). Whether you use it in a bare-bones, flat way -- or have mastered an elaborate orchestration of API hooks and fiddlizations -- there is plenty of value to be had in the way FF handles its business and lets the user handle theirs.
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
This matches my observations as well and is a major reason why I've spent less time here. Chris: the problem is that most people tell me that Facebook has enough conversations for them. One of Zuckerberg's items a week ago had many thousands of comments.
- Robert Scoble
That still doesn't mean anything for me - it's still a very productive tool. I'm at an advantage by using it.
- Jesse Stay
I'm still here on FF too!
- imabonehead
quantity != quality
- holly #ravingfangirl
Compete is about as wrong as Alexa was in the old days. Seriously, I have numerous benchmarks where I *know* the traffic and Compete is often off by serious margins. Instead, I'd use Quantcast which shows a major drop off in September, but with the bottom falling out the numbers have started to trend back up again. http://www.quantcast.com/friendf...
- AJ Kohn
I agree only Quantcast is accurate-ish.
- Thomas Power
@Thomas: Yes, I'm not saying Quantcast is always right, but it's usually more right than the others.
- AJ Kohn
Alexa is a relative measure it's relatively right http://www.alexa.com/siteinf... the top sites look right-ish to me http://www.alexa.com/topsites when compared to Quantcast http://www.quantcast.com/top-sit...
- Thomas Power
Thomas, that looks pretty up and to the right to me, in a long-term sense. It's fun to look at the short-term, but we're seeing no sense on a long-term scale of FriendFeed losing traffic. Great point on the Alexa and Quantcast (assuming we even need traffic graphs to keep us on here)
- Jesse Stay
Thx J x
- Thomas Power
@Robert, I'll never argue that Facebook isn't more popular. All the cute that it offers (which isn't nearly as bad as it could be) seems to make it approachable enough to a much wider audience than a tool like FF. I get that you can filter out the fluff and minimize the Facebookishness of it, but then you're stuck with their interface and color scheme (unless I'm missing something). I guess I really see them as being different corners at the same party.
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
whatever it is.friendfeed still has it's unique user group's. i am happy to be here
- ibrahim ot
I see more interaction on my items now than in the pre-Facebook days, but I may be an outlier.
- John (bird whisperer)
from iPod
Well, I don't care what the numbers say. I get much more out of Friendfeed (in terms of discovery, engagement *and* enjoyment) than I ever have from Facebook - and I should point out that, with 2 or 3 exceptions, I've met everyone on my Facebook friends list.. Friendfeed demonstrates that it doesn't require a cast of 350 million to make a great community.
- Andrew Terry
hear hear Andrew
- Thomas Power
looks like FriendFeed was the first to be kicked by Facebook changes.. wich is not so bad since the service belongs to
- Frédérick 2 Baro
from Yoono
Somehow I feel the Compete state are not correct!
- Sampad Swain
I'm not going anywhere!
- Jason Hill
To get a good experience, friendfeed has always required you to put in a lot of time. So many active users comment on a thread and Hide it when they no longer have anything to say, if you come by a few hours later to comment you're just talking to a wall. friendfeed has never been very rewarding for casual use, in my experience, and that is doubly true now.
- DGentry
Awe man....
- Comics Forge
What RAP says. I don't think this could ever be determined, but I wonder if certain language groups have dropped off their use while other language groups have maintained?
- Rochelle
You can Hide Stories? Really? Well, damn, so you can.
- Jason Hill
*yikes* that explains the lethargic Home Feed; less users = less interaction/activity = the lethargic(boring) feed
- sofarsoShaw BAZINGA!
I check FF as much as I ever did (though I should prolly post more)
- Iain Baker
*quoting mode on* Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. -- Albert Einstein.
- Citronella
Do not like ...
- Charlie Anzman
not a good news
- Ted GUO
:-(
- Kol Tregaskes
Traffic Statistics: fascinating if you like numbers; otherwise it's just classic ePenis-waving, pointing, and gloating, and not really important if you're happy.
- Mark H
Without ads, how does friendfeed pay for itself?
- Brent
That's a shame seeing as FF is better than all the other social sites. I'll continue to use it until I can't.
- Araceli
All you frowny faces need to go read through the thread - FriendFeed's just fine - up and to the right even. I'm not sure why Louis felt the need to post this. See this thread, much more accurate: http://friendfeed.com/jessest...
- Jesse Stay
Note that November was the month Scoble announced publicly he was leaving Friendfeed (FTMP)
- Jesse Stay
T. Brent, FriendFeed doesn't need to make money (although I'm sure they will) - they're owned by Facebook, which is already profitable and cash-flow positive
- Jesse Stay
Yet, keep in mind FriendFeed is part of Google's deal for real-time content :-) I bet there was money there.
- Jesse Stay
Thx, Jesse.
- Brent
"Q: Why doesn’t Compete’s estimate of site visitors match my local analytics (e.g. Google Analytics, Omniture)? ... A: ... Compete measures only US activity." -- http://www.compete.com/resourc..., while the Alexa chart Jesse posted in his thread showing up-and-to-the-right growth reflects global activity. There's no real disconnect between the two charts. Which one you think matters more probably depends on what argument you're trying to support.
- Ken Sheppardson
What's friendfeed?
- veo
Ken, exactly
- Jesse Stay
Interesting. I was just thinking that FF has started to die. The activity amongst my friends and friends of friends has decreased considerably in recent weeks.
- Jason Toney
oh that's not cool wonder what's going on!!!
- See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
still here
- Mike Nencetti
successful exists do not always equal successful products once acquisiiton is complete.
- susan mernit
...still here. Still like it. Still find it useful on many levels. The thing about FF is that even at its peak, its traffic and usage wasn't even in the same league as Facebook, Twitter, or even MySpace in steep decline. The raw user numbers never (or should I say, optimistically, haven't) reached any kind of critical mass. Outside of the early-adopter and sophisticated info junkie/informavore crowds, Friendfeed, just isn't that relevant.
- .LAG liked that
Quoting Jeniffer Aniston: This is so uncool. :-(
- Olivia Lovag
why I should trust only compete's data? where is guarantee they are not biased due to some unknown reason? now if you would go to e.g. quantcast for another opinion http://www.quantcast.com/friendf... and switch between 3m, 6m, 1yr and "all"... do you see difference? yes, I know quantcast doesn't have access to data, only estimate, yet... Ok, let's try alexa.com http://www.alexa.com/siteinf... - and they also show compeletly different trend... so, WHY we should trust compete's graphs?
- A. T.
A.T., be sure to also see my article here that agrees with you: http://staynalive.com/article...
- Jesse Stay
How many people here use FF for work / project dev - or do you use it for just link sharing with friends?
- zeroinfluencer
@zeroinfluencer I use it for conversations, along shared links and not necessarily bound for them. I can't discuss my work in public at all, apart from very generic details, hence question about using it for work/project _is_ irrelevant for me. But rest is just goes here - twitter is very far behind friendfeed for me. And facebook complements friendfeed pushing it even further.
- A. T.
zerioinfluencer I use it for both
- Jesse Stay
@AT @Jessy - I use FF a lot for project dev with distributed teams - the mix of chat and sharing in private groups has proved amazing. Even team members who have never used FF before have been going "wow" why the hell haven't we used this before?
- zeroinfluencer
To my point - FF has not really been presented as more than a Twitter style app - it's far more than that IMHO. It's a swiss army knife for the web.
- zeroinfluencer
I am new so this read well. I am one of those - why the hell wasn't I here before now. I used to Icq a LONG time ago. Then did nothing for a while. Joined a fan site - LonghornNation.com and met tons of people that many are still very important friends to me - I blogged, read and interacted on forums, met tons of people at real life events. Then that site was shut down and some moved to...
more...
- Paulette
@zeroinfluencer I use it for both too
- .LAG liked that
I'm still in love with FF as my web swiss army knife too. What should we move to when it disappear? What about Feedoor?
- Opensource Obscure
Google Acquires AppJet - http://etherpad.com/ep...
ropiku, Tyson Key, romanzolotarev and 70 other people liked this
Congratulations! "We are happy to announce that AppJet Inc. has been acquired by Google. The EtherPad team will continue its work on realtime collaboration by joining the Google Wave team."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
I've been waiting for this :)
- Benjamin Golub
Congrats to the team (http://etherpad.com/ep...)
- AJ Batac :)
I'm sad that they're shutting it down though :(
- Paul Buchheit
Shutting it down?! why?
- Susan Beebe
if the technology gets integrated with google docs, it would be as good as the current etherpad
- Mike Chelen
This freaking sucks.
- Eric Florenzano
Yeah, I'm not sure what I'm going to do now for jotting down notes...I guess back to email
- Benjamin Golub
google docs still works nicely for most document tasks, including sharing or publishing as needed
- Mike Chelen
I knew it! Docs really needs some Etherpad awesomeness http://blogoscoped.com/forum...
- Jérôme
Google docs is my friend :)
- Susan Beebe
Even Wave's playback needs some Etherpad's time-slider sauce.
- Jérôme
SO this is like FF - another talent grab - Google's acquiring more smart talent
- Susan Beebe
I hope Google announces some way for us to create new pads, my online learning classroom will not be the same without etherpad :-(
- Shakeel Mahate
Ouch.
- Адский Блондин
Oh noes! I'm with Shakeel...I need EtherPad for my high school Digital Media students. It's one of the few collaboration sites that isn't blocked at the district level.
- Shea
Shutting down etherpad is a travesty. Fucking Google, keep it open.
- Mitch
I had a feeling this would happen... Etherpad is basically a simplified proto-wave.
- Lindsay
I loved etherpad. Simple and great for code sharing. I don't think there is any other web service like etherpad out there. It will be missed.
- vivekian
During one of my phone screens, I was so frustrated with writely that I switched to etherpad.
- Piaw Na
creative
- ★ Soner Gönül
Google MUST keep Etherpad open after March 31st. I fear that this will be the new JotSpot, and there's no simple alternative around.
- Jorge Martins Rosa
Adding new application interfaces like the EtherPad is the right next step for Wave. They need to move beyond the current Wave app interface towards multi-application document interoperability. Otherwise they will end up being categorized as just a really confusing chat services.
- David Lounsbury
Yet another example of why you shouldn't use the cloud for anything remotely important.
- Gabe
lelapin: Thing is, if they acquired Etherpad before Wave was created, Etherpad probably would have cost more to acquire. I'd say the long term potential of Wave having similar functionality, and more, devalued Etherpads product. In announcing that they will open source Etherpad, Google seems to be acknowledging this. Seems like a good outcome for everyone, Etherpad employees, Google and their users.
- Andrew Perry
Brian Solis at Bub.blicio.us: Introducing the FriendFeed Team - http://bub.blicio.us/1111126...
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urdumania1, Jimminy, CoG of FF, Vezquex and 141 other people liked this
Brian, as always, takes great pictures, even with questionable subjects. The pictures are from tonight's open house.
- Louis Gray
from Bookmarklet
Great pic Louis and tell them I love them all, best product on the web right now
- Thomas Power
Great photo!
- Bret Taylor
Left to right, as if you didn't know already: Dan Hsiao, Casey Muller, Ana Yang, Jim Norris, Tudor Bosman, Bret Taylor, Paul Buchheit (with Camilla), Sanjeev Singh, Kevin Fox.
- Tudor Bosman
yes; awesome photo!
- Tudor Bosman
(Not pictured: Ben Golub, Gary Burd and Ross Miller)
- Louis Gray
Some of our Turkish friends are also there http://ff.im/3mt6T.. Thanks for the pictures
- Murat Buyurgan
Great Photo :)
- Nimaa
You didn't tell me there was a FriendFeed party this week or I would have come out :-)
- Jesse Stay
Tudor SMASH!
- dario
Jesse: I haven't been able to make a friendfeed party for a while. We need a calendar! Heheh.
- Robert Scoble
اینا هم حلقه دارن. رونوشت به مازیار و مهران اینا
- Aly
Rock on, Kevin!
- Josh Haley
Great PPs!!加油，Friendfeed！:)))
- K.D.
That's why I love today's web : you can talk with the people that build the next web, and see those who build your current web. Congrats guys!
- Zackatoustra
FriendFeed Team, I love you !!!! Thanks to you all, I'm very happy everyday!!!
- @Renchin@
So that was the TGIFF ("Thank Goodness It's FriendFeed") party? Perhaps slightly off-topic, but if Camiila hasn't been betrothed yet, have I got a grandson for her ;-))
- ianf ⌘
TGIFF was excellent. Great event and great people.Thanks for the invite and hospitality.
- AJ Kohn
Louis, thank you and thank you to the FriendFeed team for making a killer product and hosting a great open house!
- Brian Solis
I think I spotted Hutch (http://friendfeed.com/bhc3) in an uncaptioned photo wearing a white "San Francisco Classic" shirt: http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Yes, Daniel. That is Hutch.
- Louis Gray
Fun party, great food, great hospitality.
- Anne Bouey
Anne - great finally meeting you yesterday.
- Hutch Carpenter
great photo, good to see the whole team together!
- Jeroen De Miranda
oooh i am totally wishing i was there! Robert is right, we need a calendar! :)
- Susan Beebe
Hutch: Thanks. I enjoyed chatting with you, too.
- Anne Bouey
what's with the guitar? lol
- Stuart Evans
(bump) Ana and Casey are now married. Here's a pic of them on the left, between Ross and Jim. Congratulations to Ana and Casey! (per http://friendfeed.com/jessica...)
- Louis Gray
:))))))))) مال بعد از عیده. اواخر فروردین فک کنم
- Aly
Our Computers Are Down! - http://thenextweb.com/shareab...
friday night, Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど, justsoblogger and 35 other people liked this
Funny!! :)
- Susan Beebe
Office workers are shown to be playing solitaire...
- TrafficBug
Dell Releases Customized Version of Chrome OS - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Kol Tregaskes, David Cook, Cem Ozkaynak and 15 other people liked this
That was crazy fast....
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
The power of open source?
- Victor Ganata
Yes indeed, particularly since Dell didn't "release" anything, per se. A Dell employee did some "tinkering" as he puts it, and has made his USB image available.
- Ken Sheppardson
Open source ftw!!
- imabonehead
from Android
cool :)
- Susan Beebe
It looks like in the wifi chipset space, Atheros has been more open-source friendly than Broadcom. So the change with Dell Mini 10V might be to add some support for a Broadcom chipset. This 2008 article at http://blogs.computerworld.com/new_lin... gives some background on Linux & Atheros vs. Broadcom, plus the fact that Dell has contributed Broadcom drivers for Linux in the past.
- Matt Cutts
Thorium is readily available & can be turned into energy without generating transuranic wastes. Thorium's capacity as nuclear fuel was discovered during WW II, but ignored because it was unsuitable for making bombs. A liquid-fluoride thorium reactor (LFTR) is the optimal approach for harvesting energy from Thorium, and has the potential to solve... - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Mark Trapp, Sean McBride, Justin Hopkins and 12 other people liked this
thx for highlighting this!
- timepilot
Interesting about Thorium. Not sure I like the remix style talk cutups, though. It would have been nice if the person who did the editing linked the YouTube description to the original talks. I would have watched one of those instead.
- DeWitt Clinton
Steve Gillmor thinks Silverlight is the platform of the future http://www.techcrunch.com/2009... [I think that he missed the memo about the web/html5]
timepilot, imabonehead, Sam Harrelson and 8 other people liked this
Is Steve Gillmor the new John Dvorak or just another one? Being contrary seems like a life goal -- maybe just their way of appearing relevant?
- Brian Sullivan
at least the TechCrunch commenters addressed the issue. time to take this convo private
- Steve Gillmor
Steve- Visual Studio2010 is written completely in WPF. So its not a completely ridiculous notion to suggest that Office will be written in WPF/Silverlight at some point in the future.
- Roberto Bonini
EH ? was not Vista built on the WPF foundation too ??
- Peter Dawson
roberto of course. but the idea that I missed the HTML 5 memo and that I'm being contrarian is lamer than the comments on Techcrunch which is a promising trend.
- Steve Gillmor
the message at PDC was loud and strong: WPF and SIlverlight are converging - fast
- Steve Gillmor
exactly david - not technology but strategic shift
- Steve Gillmor
any divergence will be met with pushback at the highest levels. please document such issues and point to them so we can leverage them
- Steve Gillmor
It seems msft's intent is for much greater synergies between Spoint/Office etc going forward, various techs involved, with silverlight deeper into 'platform' throughout, but still immature and UI layer...
- oliver marks
Peter: there is almost zero.NET code inside Vista. Also, who said Visual Studio was written on top of .NET (IE, WPF or Silverlight)? That's wrong.
- Robert Scoble
Ah, sorry David. Misread which ever article I read that in. Thanks for clarifying it. Nonetheless, Microsoft is using it's own products because they see it as the future n
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Silverlight Office will center on micromessaging, and it will be sooner than robert's 5 years bet
- Steve Gillmor
yes david
- Steve Gillmor
but linking to old Office is not what I am saying see above
- Steve Gillmor
Mac compliant apps are the sweet spot. Devs may veer but the trend will be toward interoperability and with Moonlight too.
- Steve Gillmor
all true but the key apps will support Win/Mac and add point functionality to iphone as demoed in LA.
- Steve Gillmor
Robert, Visual studio 2010 is written partly in WPF. Not 2008. Now Microsoft has at least one project with an OS kernal written completely in .net. So Im on steves side on this one.
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Oh and Robert, you can tell the difference between the WPF designer in 2010 and the vanilla in in 2008
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Chrome OS will help kill Silverlight and other non-open tech, preventing msft and others from recapturing the web. (though I expect that it will support Flash by necessity)
Zu from AOD, Charles Frith, Dan Douglass and 137 other people liked this
Good point.
- Robert Scoble
I hope it doesn't. After all we need good media delivery platforms.
- Swaroop
yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it.
- zio bonino
Chrome OS might be a compelling case for SVG/<canvas> + <audio> tag replacements for flash. Dunno what SVG's perf is like on WebKit tho.
- Matt M (inactive)
Microsoft will port it. It's all about codecs & DRM. Ogg Theora isn't all that great.
- Rodfather
Is that Steve Jobs disguised as Zio ?
- Swaroop
@Swaroop Yes, we do. Like HTML5.
- Benjamin Dobson
@Swaroop eh eh, I've got flash disabled on all my systems :)
- zio bonino
@Benjamin I'd prefer HTML web apps over native apps anyday. But it'll take time for it to mature
- Swaroop
Rodfather, I don't think that will be an option for msft :). If Chrome is built the way I would do it, there is no installation per-se -- everything runs in the browser and the config in stored in the cloud (and cached locally). The computer is a pure appliance.
- Paul Buchheit
@Zio You're the real Steve Jobs
- Swaroop
Microsoft moves much too slow to force new standards these days.
- Louis Gray
@Louis: IE8 flunking ACID test :)
- Swaroop
What about more standard codecs like h.264? That isn't open and is in hardware already.
- Rodfather
h.264 is established and must be in there, but it's not a platform like Silverlight is.
- Paul Buchheit
A world with no Flash and Silverlight. I can't wait.
- Paul Grav
Yeah, it's too bad they didn't open-source it. This stuff with Mono is silly -- if you want to make a real standard you need to make the real implementation be open.
- Paul Buchheit
MS are about 10 years too late with Silverlight. And they'll most likely be dragged kicking and screaming into supporting HTML5.
- Paul Grav
Zio sez (hopefully humorously): "yeah, nobody really needs flash. kill it" -- have you ever watched a single YouTube video in your life? Like seventeen gazillion other people across the wired world. yeah, you're right, nobody needs Flash. ha!
- .LAG liked that
Remember Dave Clark in 1992, "We reject kings, presidents and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code."
- Guy Vander Heyden
.LAG: most YouTube videos are playable without Flash now. My iPhone plays most of them and it doesn't have Flash. Certainly by the time the Google OS came out YouTube would be converted completely to non-Flash capability.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: The youtube flash application helps read the flv files on Youtube's servers and provides a UI (decoder too).
- Swaroop
Even Google admits they're not sure I'd bit for bit html5 video is less bandwitj consuming than flash. And flash isn't just media delivery, also interesting games and apps like tonepad, splicemusic.com's online sequencer, etc (I'm musically inclined, so most of my examples will be along that line) and please don't suggest we redo it all in java
- Ed F
from Nambu
Does this mean the next Silverlight release is codename Seppuku?
- Jay Cuthrell
Maybe we'll see commercials encoded in movies if everything is open.
- Rodfather
Flash is too established to kill off right now, so I'd be surprised if Chrome didn't include flash support. It will take many years to get rid of that thing. First they need to fix the standard browser to not be so broken (lack of video, multi-file upload, etc), then they need everyone to switch to the new html5 solutions.
- Paul Buchheit
Scoble ...that may be true, and YouTube plays on my Pre without Flash (yet)...but that doesn't mean that "nobody needs Flash." really? what would replace it?
- .LAG liked that
So Google's NaCl http://code.google.com/p... (now integrated within Chrome/Chromium) was just a temporary workaround, right?
- Jérôme
Use HTML 5 instead!
- Minh Bui
Is it just me or does Native Client (NaCl) remind you of the Microsoft Active X approach?
- Daniel Chow
But who prevents Google from taking over the net?
- Andreas
youtube videos play on iPhone/iPod Touch as they are higher res mp4 files NOT flv files. It was a big deal when Steve negotiated that deal with youtube.
- vijay
You have Moonlight to run Silverlight applications in Linux. Not perfect, but then an application made on Silverlight is "not perfect" by definition
- Marcos Marado
The point here is that Google has no motivation to include Silverlight on these machines, and installing software likely won't be an option (it's a web appliance), so it will be absent from a lot of netbooks, just as it is absent from iPhones. That cuts into market share, which is a bad thing for a platform that is trying to compete with more universal tech like Flash and HTML....
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- Paul Buchheit
@DanielChow: NaCl has very little overlap with ActiveX, apart from running native code. It runs in a provably safe way, and explicitly does *not* allow it to access arbitrary host APIs. But it can be quite useful when you need to run code that would be too slow in Javascript (even on v8): e.g., heavy encryption/decryption, possibly codecs, definitely game physics, and so forth.
- Joel Webber
There is a time and a place for Flash and Silverlight so I hope it will run it. There are simply some things you can do which aren't possible, or practical in html/css/javascript.
- Steve Temple
Paul: why wouldn't Chrome OS come with Moonlight? And if not, why wouldn't you be able to just install it? And third, why the hell would people want Moonlight for? I never installed it and not even once felt the need to!
- Marcos Marado
from fftogo
because of moonlight http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlig... the potential userbase of silverlight is greatly improved, agree that projects which don't consider compatibility are limiting their potential
- Mike Chelen
@mindboosternoori Ryanair site uses silverlight: http://www.ryanair.com/site... that's the only website I know that uses it - for this you would need moonlight :)
- Ihar Mahaniok
Flash is needed for the google os to be useful in education. Many education based websites are flash based.
- Willowdale
@Paul "Google is probably paying OEMs to ship with this OS, so instead of paying $x/machine to include windows XP, they will get paid $y/machine to include Chrome." - paying present tense, already? Isn't it enough for OEMs not to have to pay hefty licenses to Redmond, etc., while being able to ship with a free, stable OS+browser combo; they need to be paid to do that as well?
- ianf ⌘
I sure hope so. I think the wide array of JavaScript libraries have been killing Flash for years. Silverlight was never really a player. The only think keeping Flash afloat is video
- Scott Radcliff
I don't know what's under the hood of Silverlight (nobody knows), but Flash is basically a sprite engine controlled by Actionscript, which is basically an adapted version of Javascript anyway. It's nicely packaged though, and has an army of developers, so it won't go away that easily, at least not until there are Flash-to-Canvas/ HTML5 porting tools/ translators and the like.
- ianf ⌘
to follow that logic...photoshop is needed as well
- Chris Hofmann
somebody call me when http://playboyarchive.com is working in Chrome OS (it's currently implemented in Silverlight)
- Karim
If it gains any traction at all, MS will just make Silverlight version that will run on Google OS. Sure google could block it, but they haven't done so with the Chrome browser.
- Jeff Weber
Interesting. I doubt the Google OS will get that big anytime soon though.
- Scott Radcliff
from email
Silverlight doesn't have a chance now...I wonder what would Adobe Air do.
- Saad Kamal
not really, if google want to be open then they will need a plugin architecture for it and then MS could just port for it. I really don't see this troubling mainstream users any time soon.
- Darren Stuart
Though I agree with the view that MS monopoly may erode as alternative devices get adoption over PC/Notebook, and these devices will mostly run on open source OS, but it may take years to create a significant change in every day usage of normal users. In the end, OS choice is mostly done by manufacturers, and they would be happy to get paid by open source vendors for putting their OS on...
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- Kaan Bingol
People want media. Hulu, Netflix, Kindle, iTunes, etc. They need to address that or they are DOA.
- Hayes Haugen
Hayes, what makes you think it will lack media support?
- Paul Buchheit
I don't think it will lack licensed media support but what deals they are able to make will be crucial.
- Hayes Haugen
Hayes, i thought you were going to say that Netflix was using Silverlight. ;-)
- Karim
Yes, they are, what is their deal with MSFT? Can they do non Silverlight distribution?
- Hayes Haugen
i believe the Netflix non-Silverlight distribution is a format called "DVD" that works over the "Snail Mail" protocol. ;-) but clearly if Google is paying OEMs to install Chrome OS, they can pay Netflix to go back to Flash which Chrome OS will probably support "by necessity" ;-)
- Karim
How can Google make money from Chrome OS? Or does it want to make money from it except through advertisement? I still can not imagine that all software and service are free and sponsored by advertisements.
- Derek Wei
All Chrome OS questions are answered by today's Fake Steve Jobs ;)
- Hayes Haugen
Is there a need to make money? If more and more people eschew desktop offline applications in favor of online web based apps, it means more pageviews, more eyeballs, more advertising inventory, plus has the side effect of undermining a big competitor's cash cow.
- Ray Cromwell
That's the key, Google wants everything online. They figure the more people online, the stronger they become, and the more money they make. At least that what was said at the Chrome launch.
- Scott Radcliff
from email
I'm amused that the "backwards compatibility" argument against alternative operating systems has slowly turned into "does it support flash", and when you unpack that it really means "does it play YouTube". I suspect Google will make sure ChromeOS cna play YouTube and they don't need Flash to make sure of it.
- Nick Lothian
Is it possible that Microsoft will write Office for the Web using Volta instead of Silverlight? Could be a showcase announcement for their attack on GWT
- Ray Cromwell
I think Microsoft is going to focus less on the front-end of the web and more on the back-end, middle tier and database sides. Azure is a big deal that consumers aren't talking about because it's not flashy but will be pretty important to developers (and especially enterprise-level applications) when it's finally ready because everything becomes an interface to the cloud. Microsoft is...
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- Lindsay
Azure looks really cool. Hint: so did Blackbird.
- Michael R. Bernstein
lol blackbird (scary redmond flashback) - a good example of azure platform utilization can be seen via jon udell's elmcity project - http://blog.jonudell.net/elmcity...
- mike "glemak" dunn
Nosense, I want silverlight, flash, html and any other technology in my desktop & mobile phone. Silverlight? yes, there you can develop under Python, Ruby et al, instead of the outdated javascript.
- Sebastian Wain
It looks like with Native Client, you should be able to write your Chrome OS app in any language you feel like. So far, they have some examples in C/C++, but one of the things they ported is a Lua interpreter. If Adobe isn't going to invest heavily in fixing the show-stopping bugs on non-Windows versions of Flash, it's inevitably going to die, and there's really nothing either Google or Apple can do even if they wanted to support Flash better.
- Victor Ganata
...ActionScript3 is ECMASCript-compliant. I know nothing about standards bodies, and shii like that, but what if Adobe dropped ActionScript and said, "You can now use pure Javascript to build Flash applications..." It wouldn't be a big leap. I'm pretty sure that would shut-up all the Flash haters. And to the folks who say Flash is hanging around just because of video...well, video is...
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- .LAG liked that
Actionscript is just the glue for the more advanced what-iffy graphic functionality of Flash. They can not drop it for Javascript, because it contains additional graphic primitives that JS lacks. But it's not the JS-or-Actionscript that makes it a target for hate, it's other things. Nobody denies that it's pretty capable, but it is also badly written, eats up memory like no other, makes...
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- ianf ⌘
I like this post!
- Mohammad Abdurraafay
from iPhone
I honestly don't know how necessary Flash is. Apple seems to be doing fine without supporting it. But certainly Gnash and Swfdec should be implementable on Chrome OS. The fact is that without Adobe's full support on a given platform, Flash apps will always be second class citizens on alternate platforms, and so far, there's no indication that Adobe is interested in fully supporting any platform other than Windows.
- Victor Ganata
ianf ...you bring up great points about Flash's detriments, as does Victor, but until there's a better way to bring video to the Web, I can't see it disappearing. Adobe seems to keep improving the Flash VM, hopefully they'll address those CPU-hogging issues and make a more efficent runtime. Yeah, I hate hearing the fans kick-in when visiting a Flash-heavy site too. <sigh>
- .LAG liked that
alternative to flash video such as ... html5 :) (requires ff3.5) http://www.dailymotion.com/openvid...
- Mike Chelen
from IM
Ed, only??? thats one of the main reasons cited for the continued requirement of flash on popular sites like youtube
- Mike Chelen
Ed, those other uses can be accomplished through pure Javascript, video was the last remaining stumbling block
- Mike Chelen
Still waiting on non-Flash recreations of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch... Well aware of how someone mentioned higher up how you can combine javascript and svg to get nifty flash-like effects. I want apps like that though ^ Only real alternatives I've seen are Java-based ones, and those runs even slower than Flash.
- Ed F
Pardon me, but the OP is a ridiculous conclusion. For that to be the case, Chrome OS would have to kill Windows, OS X, etc altogether. Paul, I understand your viewpoint as being an ex-Google person, but that's just NOT going to happen. Right now the video specification from HTML5 has been dropped because of an impasse, meaning that we may be transitioning from 1 closed-source boss - Flash - to another - H264. Good luck.
- LANjackal
But why do these type of apps have to be written in Flash at all? You can easily do the same thing in C, C++, ObjC, Python, Ruby, etc., with the Native Client API that they're building for Chrome. http://code.google.com/p...
- Victor Ganata
I'm just saying, it's not like Flash is the end-all/be-all. As Apple well demonstrates, some people can live quite well without it.
- Victor Ganata
Victor ...i think the answer to the 'why do these have to be written in Flash at all' question is because Flash is installed on such a significant portion of Web browsers. But I recall that Adobe Flex had a competitor, Laszlo/OpenLaszlo, which compiled apps to SWF or to Javascript. Who's to say that Adobe doesn't have the same capability of making SWF apps into JS ones? On one hand, it...
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- .LAG liked that
Ed, such apps are possible with Javascript and HTML5 multimedia features, the question will be how difficult developers find it, and whether the performance is fast enough
- Mike Chelen
LANjackal, there is a question of degree in that Flash + H264 uses proprietary software and codec, while HTML5 + H264 requires only the codec. while OGV is no longer part of the spec, it can certainly still be used to have completely open video formats, and recent comparisons have shown it performs well http://people.xiph.org/~maikme...
- Mike Chelen
Silverlight's 3 is looking pretty impressive today but tend to agree
- Charlie Anzman
What everybody seems to be missing about Flash is that it works because there is one implementation which is mostly backwards-compatible and the same across platforms. It beat Java because, among other reasons, Java just didn't work the same across JVMs and platforms. The problem with HTML5 is that it will have a different implementation for every browser, and that means your app/game...
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- Gabe
Paul, don't you prefer brutal competition SL vs. Flash vs. standards bring to the table by definition? Or are you more into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... - 2020 Google Union - type of ideology?
- Kari Honkanen
Kari, I don't understand your question. Competition is good, but with open-source we get that -- no need for flash or SL.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, no, we don't get the same level of competition with open-source only. As long as there's an opportunity for big gains (like in this case to bridge the gap before html 5 era...to satisfy demand), there will be innovations driven by that. I believe we all benefit from a free market economy that includes commercial, closed source, innovations. I am more scared of the possible future...
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- Kari Honkanen
I wouldn't worry too much amount multimedia. By exposing WebGL, (and hopefully OpenCL), you can offload a lot of compute intensive stuff onto the GPU via GPGPU techniques, and NativeClient is there to take up the rest of the slack, but the for the vast majority of iPhone-like games, I'm willing to bet V8 Javascript on a modern processor is more than enough. That leaves licensing issues...
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- Ray Cromwell
Paul, so are you saying that Google will block both Flash and Silverlight from ChromeOS? That's a new take on 'open.'
- Cliff Gerrish
MSFT next smart move: get Chrome OS (it's BSD licensed), inject IE9 and Silverlight into it and go benchmark against Chrome :)
- Claudio Cicali
MSFT sucks Claudio :)
- Orlando Pozo
Something feels contradictory about a system touted to 'kill' competitors being 'open'. Sounds almost predatory to me.
- Karoli
I'm not opposed to non-open software, but for OS, browser, etc I prefer that it be open. Cliff, Google isn't going to "block" anything, but they can certainly choose what to include, and my guess is that they won't include SL. As Claudio points out, MSFT can make their own version of ChromeOS that includes SL, which is why open source software is nice (it can't be crippled too much or else someone will fork it).
- Paul Buchheit
I have heard somewhere that Fash uses it's own port where Silverlight works over the HTTP port. That's why Netflix works so well. To that, Flash costs more on a sever side because providers can charge more for that port traffic. Could it come down to who is cheaper? (I am fully prepared to be wrong).
- Johnny
Johnny, they both use HTTP -- there's no difference there.
- Paul Buchheit
Is Chrome OS BSD-licensed? I thought it was using a Linux kernel.
- Victor Ganata
@Paul - well, Flash can do P2P stuff over non-HTTP posts, but that is very new (Flash 10 I think). The cost isn't affected anyway.
- Nick Lothian
My understanding is that netbooks would have to be absurdly popular for Chrome OS to make a dent in the popularity of Flash or SL.
- Gabe
it is possible to have smaller groups for open source software, such as google's own gears api http://code.google.com/apis...
- Mike Chelen
How is HTML 5 going to defeat Flash and SL? I haven't used it, but I don't see anything in the spec that looks like it could compare.
- Gabe
@Gabe - what do you think HTML5 is missing? It does video, drawing, local storage, "threading" via WebWorkers. The biggest hole I'm aware of is the lack of access to webcams & microphones. What have I missed?
- Nick Lothian
Nick: When you say HTML 5 has "drawing", are you refering to the Canvas element? I would not consider an immediate-mode procedural raster drawing library to be much of a competitor to retained-mode declarative vector libraries like SVG or Silverlight. Programming with the Canvas tag is sort of the equivalent of programming in assembly language for bitmaps.
- Gabe
@Gabe: I think you've got it upside-down. A Canvas-style API is the fundamental basis on which you can build a retained mode structure like SVG, et al. If a platform includes a retained-mode library as a convenience, so be it. You can build SVG on Canvas, but not the other way around (hacks like IECanvas notwithstanding -- they have horrible performance characteristics and are a nasty abstraction inversion).
- Joel Webber
So, if Moonlight (Mono) runs on linux -- Will google make sure it doesn't work on Chrome OS?
- Cliff Gerrish
Joel: I don't think you said anything contrary to what I said. I just don't understand why any programmer would want to waste time writing an app using a low-level library when I could use a high-level library that implements everything for me.
- Gabe
@Gabe - I agree, and people are implementing those libraries now. See http://raphaeljs.com/ for example. Also, don't underestimate the convenience factor. I don't own any Flash development tools, but my text editor works pretty well for Canvas+JS based stuff.
- Nick Lothian
Nick: Didn't the author of raphael have some massive rant about how bad the Canvas element is? And I don't have any Flash dev tools either, but I use a text editor for most of my Silverlight development. It is incredibly convenient to be able to type something like <DataGrid ItemsSource="{Binding tabledata}"/> into a text editor and not have to create the data grid myself.
- Gabe
Why is Flash a "necessity" for an OS? I enjoy what flash can do, but it is like putting pimped out leather Oldsmobile seats in a Ferrari. It would definitely be nice, but certainly not a necessity.
- Dan Douglass
Early post goof up. To your original point, I agree. I like how Google is approaching the internet space with web apps that can be run with out a bloated browser.
- Dan Douglass
Dan Douglass: Flash is necessary because so many web sites rely on it. How many people would want to get a netbook that couldn't play FaceBook games or watch YouTube videos? Of course Google is in the unique position of being able to make YouTube work on ChromeOS without Flash, but they probably can't do anything about Hulu, Vimeo, or any of the other video sites out there that require Flash.
- Gabe
Anyone else think Joy is Spam?
- Chris Myles
already reported it yesterday :)
- Ⓐ ☠ slayerboy ☠ Ⓐ
from IM
internet refills? - http://juliasegal.tumblr.com/post...
Michael Lehman, Citronella, Roberto Bonini and 22 other people liked this
OMG! YOU MEAN IT RUNS OUT?!?
- Nathalie
Do you get a discount if you buy in bulk?
- Devon Blugh
from twhirl
Shake it a little bit and you can get some more use out of it. *tilts interwebs*
- Ayşe E.
LOL!
- Kol Tregaskes
lol, Ayse ;)
- Friendfeed's Francisco
This is beyond awesome: iPhone or Droid? - xkcd - http://xkcd.com/662/
Tomonori Murakami, Steven Bryden, Pamela Weir and 65 other people liked this
It's funny because it's OMFG funny.
- Kevin Fox
from Bookmarklet
alt text: "It may be a fundamentally empty experience, but holy crap the Droid's 265 ppi screen is amazing."
- Kevin Fox
I first saw this cartoon via Reader on my Droid! Couldn't see the alt text tho...
- Rob Shillingsburg
The Droid has some nice parts to it but overall it sucks when compared to iPhone.
- Robert Scoble
hero
- siniradam
Somehow it seems the iPhone will always win on hardware. You know, unless they make a Droid phone brown and able to squirt songs to other Droid phones.
- Бурт
Google hopes to remake programming with Go - http://news.cnet.com/8301-10...
Thomas Amberg, Barry Mitchelson, Marwan Osman and 89 other people liked this
This could be very good! "Google software luminaries such as Unix co-creator Ken Thompson believe that they can help boost both computing power and programmers' abilities with an experimental programming language project called Go. And on Tuesday, they're taking the veil of secrecy off Go, releasing what they've built so far and inviting others to join the newly open-source project."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
What do you think, Paul? I know it's early, but Python latched on at Google... Think this is a response? And just on a lark, do you think Go may be headed for the browser at some point (to replace javascript)? Many of us have wondered if Chrome will take a stab at reinventing/reworking the web stack. Go feels more like a back-end tool, but wondering what came to your mind when you saw this...
- Christopher Galtenberg
Christopher, Python is nice, but we need a new system language, something high-performance to replace C/C++. This may be it.
- Paul Buchheit
Yeah, I was remembering your thoughts from here, Paul: http://friendfeed.com/paul.... Wonder how the ooc folks feel today...
- Christopher Galtenberg
My first reaction was oh yay, another C like language with brackets to make it acceptable. Having Rob Pike and Thompson on the team is impressive but makes me think of a plan9 resurrection. Using CSPs though is pretty cool and it looks like it supports mobile tasks.
- Todd Hoff
"Specifically, Go uses a technology dating back to the 1960s called CSP, or communicating sequential processes, that handles interactions among a set of cooperating programs, Pike said. The technology made an appearance in programming languages such as Occom and Erlang, but it generally hasn't been applied in systems programming."
- Paul Buchheit
If Google uses this for internal projects, that will give it a big advantage over something like plan9 in terms of being practical (not to mention the fact that it's free software, which plan9 was not, and a programming language, not an OS).
- Paul Buchheit
D seems too fragmented to be usable. All my hopes are on Go now :)
- Paul Buchheit
And note that the language is designed to be IDE independent.
- Piaw Na
Plan9 was a set of composable tools. In this case Google is providing the OS and the tools.
- Todd Hoff
Go is NOT an OS!
- Piaw Na
Where's the link to it?
- Gabe
Please ; at the end of lines... (I hate languages without ; for some psychological reasons)
- Ozgur Demir
I am no fan of language features designed to ease parsing but i suppose that's important for a system language? But it's hardly a user (i.e. programmer)-centric design. I think they should have drawn more from Scala (for concurrency model) and Io (for a beautiful syntax) instead of the messy, old languages they chose. Luckily, it's not designed for my needs so i'll never have to worry about it.
- ·[▪_▪]·
@ozgurdemir I agree. Either require them or don't. Don't make them optional in some cases. It confuses what programmers generally expect of a programming language: consistency.
- ·[▪_▪]·
Just checked and hated it. Sorry guys, it's not about the rest of the language.. it's just the ;'s.
- Ozgur Demir
while checking it, I noticed how much I love C / Java syntax and how lame to trying to change it just for to make a new product different.
- Ozgur Demir
For god's sake, who cares what the syntax looks like? What matters is whether it solves useful problems or not. It's designed to clean up a lot of the problems stemming from the legacy of C[++], compile fast, execute fast, be appropriate for systems programming, and have good primitives for concurrency. Those are good goals in my book, and they fill a much-needed niche.
- Joel Webber
I do care.
- Ozgur Demir
I thought it was kinda weird the way the video highlighted how fast it compiles. Compilation speed is great, and the vid was impressive, but I've never seen a language launch where that was highlighted so much. "Look, it compiles fast!!!!!! Oh, BTW, we are trying to solve concurrency".
- Nick Lothian
@Ozgur: Sure, but as long as the syntax isn't broken in some way, or ambiguous (VB6 comes to mind), it's surely much less important than what the language is capable of (compile speed, execution speed, what can be expressed, etc). Syntax seems like a distant third- or fourth-most important aspect to me.
- Joel Webber
@Nick: That kind of struck me as well when they first started talking about it. But when you consider that your main alternative is C++, and that compile times can get absolutely brutal (try compileing WebKit sometime -- it takes hours), it makes a bit more sense.
- Joel Webber
@Joel. yea, I can't say you're wrong and I am right.. these are all preferences.. for me, syntax is an important aspect in terms of code readability that's why I care since it becomes a real pain in the ass on a midsize or bigger project.
- Ozgur Demir
This thread is degenerating into rubbish. You know who you are - please stop.
- Christopher Galtenberg
from iPhone
@Joel yeah, I guess. But compiling something like that should take hours! Back when men were men and compiling a kernel on my 386 was a major undertaking success was so much more satisfying! Who are these young'uns Thompson & Pike and what do they know anyway!
- Nick Lothian
Yeah, really! Real programmers had to swap disks multiple times to run a Pascal compiler on Hello World for the C64 :)
- Joel Webber
Compilation speeds mean a lot when you're dealing with the google programming model. This is a company that invented code search for internal use. (See as an example: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7613693...)
- Piaw Na
@Piaw - nice example. I only skipped through it, but I can't see why something like that makes compilation speed critical. It seems similar in concept to static analysis - more speed is good, but the lack of speed doesn't break the model.
- Nick Lothian
@nlothian: static analysis and compilation both include parsing. efficient parsing of C++ is rather hard to achieve, due to messy nature of multiply included files and macro substitutions. if code analysis takes hours (ok, half-hours), it ceases to be useful.
- 9000
Lack of speed totally breaks the model. When you can get your analysis and search tools to respond in sub 500ms, the model for coding completely changes. You no longer remember where files are --- you just search for them and expect the search tool to remember for you. This enables massive code sharing, and allows small teams to be extremely effective, since they can now leverage other teams' work.
- Piaw Na
Must be Google..
- ★ Soner Gönül
Why compile time matters: http://xkcd.com/303/
- Robert Felty
Use an IDE for iterative development of the components you are working on, make modules independent through interfaces, do a nightly build so the bulk of build products like libraries etc are available, then these compile issues go away. Justifying based on compile times is so 1990s.
- Todd Hoff
Ah, but how exactly does your IDE allow you to do iterative development quickly? You have to be able to compile individual modules (whatever form they take) quickly enough to make this feasible. If you take C[++] as the de facto systems language, it fails badly on this front, because the only way to share interfaces among modules is via the preprocessor, and precompiled headers only get...
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- Joel Webber
Poor Frank McCabe and his ten year old "go!" language: http://www.reddit.com/r...
- Daniel J. Pritchett
C++ allows for abstract base classes. No implementation. Compose systems this way and you minimize recompilation. And I'm assuming the initial subsystems are developed in a mocked unit tested environment and then within a very narrow scope, so interface changes are minimized until the system test phase is reached. The compilation argument would make sense if they were talking about a...
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- Todd Hoff
Sure, but you still have to define the abstract base class (interface) in a header file somewhere, and individual .cc files end up depending upon a large number of these in practice, so that any change to one of them tends to force you to recompile a lot of object files. As you say, there are some ways of reducing this effect, but in practice large C++ systems end up taking forever and a day to compile (try compiling WebKit; a lot of Google code has this problem as well).
- Joel Webber
C++ templates are also implemented badly, which makes compilation slow.
- Piaw Na
Only if you don't compose your system well Joel. I've worked very comfortably on systems that took 12 hours to compile across a cluster of 32 build machines. I'm not saying I don't want a language where you don't have to go through all these hoops, but to say it's inevitable in C++ is not so, you just have to beat make into submission and not create a big ball of mud, which is good practice anyway.
- Todd Hoff
@Todd: Fair enough -- I'm definitely not saying you're wrong, and I have also worked on fairly large C++ code bases (mostly games) without everything going to hell in a handbasket. But you have to admit that it would be nice if you didn't have to wait many hours (or use a Google-sized build cluster) for compiling your code :)
- Joel Webber
I've worked "comfortably" on projects where the full rebuild time was a few hours on my local machine, but I can't say that I was ever working optimally. Even in the instant-on environment I'm working in now, there are occasionally changes that I have to wait a full build/deploy cycle to test and it almost always takes me 2-5x as long to solve problems in that case. You can multitask while you wait, but it's just not the same (IMHO, of course).
- Matt M (inactive)
I think 12 hours to compile across 32 build machines is unacceptable. I want instant compilation. You know, the kind that Turbo Pascal used to have.
- Piaw Na
Piaw before you say what is or is not unacceptable you might want to take the trouble to know what problem is being solved. Turbo Pascal to a real deployed product like a unicycle is to the 5th fleet.
- Todd Hoff
But any, good, modern IDE compiles incrementally and continuously so there's no noticeable compilation step. Compilation shouldn't be a _highlight_ of a new language. It's nice and the ease of building developer tools is a benefit to uptake but, in the end, the language has to be something developers _want_ to read and write since we have to look at it so much. Syntax matters. It's why so much sugar is added to languages.
- ·[▪_▪]·
As stated before, modern IDEs don't scale to google-sized code bases. Go is not designed for your tiny projects that fit in main memory. It's designed for large scale development projects.
- Piaw Na
@piaw You seem to assume that Google doesn't organize it's code. Any good project, regardless of size, especially for large projects, should be modularized. If Google has to load every piece of code into the IDE, they have more serious problems than Go will resolve. Trust me, I work on a project with tens of millions of lines of Java code and i've been responsible for analysis and...
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- ·[▪_▪]·
Well, Piaw actually did write a fair amount of the code at Google, so I'd give him a little more credit :) I know plenty of people at Google who *do* use Eclipse/IntelliJ on Google's code base (myself included), but you do have to break it into manageable chunks to make it work. That's sometimes easier said than done, to be fair.
- Joel Webber
I think that time spent pruning and organizing your code and library is best instead spent working on better tools that make your development environment super fast and capable of scaling. That's the way Go was designed.
- Piaw Na
If you want fast turnaround, eliminate compiles all together. There's no reason why a language can't support a double or triple hybrid model. Look at a language like Factor, image based like Smalltalk, you write a function, and can patch it into the live running app instantaneously, where it will run interpreted in combination with compiled code, until the runtime gets around to...
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- Ray Cromwell
I noticed that Go has an interpreter work-in-progress living in its source. The start of an instant-run mode?
- Matt M (inactive)
Smalltalk had a massive sharing problem --- you couldn't ever replicate what was in your Smalltalk image on someone else's machine. Eliminating compiles would be nice, but again, if you're solving problems at a massive scale, interpretation would be an order of magnitude loss in execution speed that you can't afford. That said, a Go interpreter would not be out of the question, or even hard to build.
- Piaw Na
@Piaw - was just reading "Coders at Work" this week and Ingalls (http://www.codersatwork.com/dan-ing...) was saying the exact opposite. He said he pauses his Mac machine and sends his Smalltalk system state over to a Windows developer and they start right up, debug, and fix.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
The point is not to have the production version run in interpretation, the point is to increase developer productivity by allowing a fast edit-run cycle, production builds can take as long as necessary. When you're in development mode, you often don't need full execution speed, you are checking for correctness. Take GWT for example. You can make changes to Java source, hit reload, and...
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- Ray Cromwell
What does production mean? An experiment that processes a large number of records so you can decide how to proceed with your line of research is hardly production, but it nevertheless has to execute fast over large amounts of data. You might think that it doesn't matter how quickly that runs, but the difference between 10 minutes and 100 minutes is huge in terms of productivity.
- Piaw Na
Yes, if you copied the entire image over, you could replicate a smalltalk VM. The problem is, then you have to live with the other guy's image and customizations. Smalltalk is great, but it really was designed as a single-user environment.
- Piaw Na
It depends how often you are running experiments over huge datasets like that. In the case where I needed some experimental data to proceed, yes, if after every edit, you had such an experiment, then maybe programming in a neutered language would be worth it, but I'd say that for the majority of developers, this is not the case, so being able to run unoptimized builds/interpretation...
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- Ray Cromwell
No, it is not for everyone. It's very much for large scale datasets that are encountered somewhat frequently on the WWW.
- Piaw Na
Go (http://golang.org/) looks pretty cool. I love channels and interfaces. It captures a lot of the things I wanted to see in a modern programming language.
metalerik, David Foucher, timepilot and 10 other people liked this
Interesting that "goroutines" are implemented with heap-allocated stack segments. Does that mean continuations are a possibility? You could use them to implement a kind of exceptions.
- Gabe
Dear Google: Please get rid of this page. Just add a setting so I can say "always use Google Reader for RSS feeds." (Or vice versa, or an option to always ask if someone uses both.) I've been going through this extra step for years now, and I am really tired of it.
Michael Hocter, John, Alastair Montgomery and 45 other people liked this
They want us to use the google page. It is really just spam.
- Mark Horne
If you use Firefox, BetterGReader extension let's you set a preference to bypass the choice.
- Tinfoil 2.0
LE, I might have to add BetterGReader just to do that.
- Jandy
annoyed the hell out of me too, but then i stopped using greader
- Iphigenie
I really wish they would kill it. I *NEVER* want to add a feed to my google homepage. I never go there.
- Rah-PM 2012
Exactly, Rah. I've never chosen the Homepage option. Google knows everything about me, they should know by now that this page is worthless to me. And seriously, now with Google's profiles and centralized accounts, a persistent setting for this should be a piece of cake to implement.
- Jandy
Agree, always on the Reader! Great tool!
- John Tastad
Agreed!
- Kevin Mohr
Feedly will skip this page for you ;)
- Mitchell McKenna
Does it, Mitchell? I have Feedly installed at home, but I haven't noticed. I use Chrome at work, though.
- Jandy
that is why i use the google reader "subscribe" bookmarklet ;-) (edit: you can find it in your google reader settings)
- stanjourdan
Jandy: there is a preview of feedly for chrome. If you are interested, please send me an email at edwink@devhd.com and I will send you an invite.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Agreed!!
- Chris Myles
+
- zeroinfluencer
it's like you read my mind or something!
- Loc
X-tra like!
- Smeerch
i use better greader and it skips this for me.
- Liz
Edwin, that's awesome! I'd love to give it a try - I'll shoot you an email.
- Jandy
Great systems presentation by Jeff Dean: http://www.cs.cornell.edu/project... (I especially like slides 23-35)
Andrey Fedorov, Andrew Gwozdziewycz, Sean Kelly and 110 other people liked this
really liked the numbers, much better than just saying "registers < memory < disk"
- Ertuğ Karamatlı
I liked this part: ---Users specify high-level desires: *“99%ile latency for accessing this data should be <50ms” *“Store this data on at least 2 disks in EU, 2 in U.S. & 1 in Asia”
- Ahmet Alp Balkan
Don't just like it - read it.
- Hayes Haugen
I would love to see more information like this :) Ideas on where I should be looking (other than FF of course!)
- Susan Beebe
Interesting stuff. I'm downloading the PDF now...
- Tyson Key
FriendFeed update. Paul Buchheit wrote me and said he's been very sick the past few days. That might explain why he hasn't engaged the way we want. He also offered to do an interview with me to discuss the future of FriendFeed and what they are doing at Facebook soon. We're working that out, hopefully soon (but might not be until November sometime)
Garin Kilpatrick, Mitchell Tsai, Bertrand Doux and 105 other people liked this
I don't know if that's a good idea for you, Robert. You might be better off making a clean break from FriendFeed.
- Bruce Lewis
Thanks Robert, that's great news! Paul, hope you feel better...
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Bruce: FriendFeed=Facebook. So, I'm interested in what he's doing and I'm a big fan of Facebook's. Twitter needs some competition. The Fail Whale is getting to me.
- Robert Scoble
Another reliable update.
- Ashish
I know it's a stretch but can we gather specific questions for Paul to answer?
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
When other sites like twitter come out with new features, you want to be at the front of the excited crowd. FriendFeed will make you into that curmudgeon who's always saying, "So what? They did that two years ago at FriendFeed."
- Bruce Lewis
Cjay: I've been working on this interview since before Facebook bought FriendFeed. :-)
- Robert Scoble
manielse: well, the interview isn't on 100% yet and now that I've talked about it in public who knows what will happen? But if it does happen of course we'll get you involved.
- Robert Scoble
Cjay: I might be a rusty wheel, but remember two things: 1. I put many many thousands of hours into FriendFeed before the sale, bringing my audience over here at great risk to my personal brand. Lots of "experts" like Mike Arrington told me I was wrong to do that. 2. I'm still here.
- Robert Scoble
OMGAWWWWW he still has "it"
- sofarsoShaw BAZINGA!
I hope Paul gets to feeling better soon. He's a great guy.
- Phil Glockner
from iPhone
sofarso: I never lost it. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Cjay: actually it's not. It just looks risky.
- Robert Scoble
To those giving Scoble crap for being on FF, aren't you tired of that? You all have been doing that for at least a year. Enough. For us on FF, we'd love to see an interview, thanks.
- Eric
Paul, get well soon
- Shane
Good luck for the interview, Robert and thanks for the update. Hope Paul gets better soon.
- Mahendra (SkepticGeek)
Thanks everyone. I'm actually not "very sick" though, just "kind of sick" -- it's mostly messing up my sleep.
- Paul Buchheit
from iPhone
be well!
- Laura Norvig
Chicken soup - but stay away from those soul books ;) Hope you're up to speed soon, Paul.
- Micah
Looking at the time-scale, doesn't that actually answer the question? You don;t wait THAT long to deliver good news or to debunk a false rumour that killings your platform (well, Zucks platform).
- Jim Connolly
Paul - sorry to hear that! (it's 2:30 am here, I can empathize with your sleep problem)
- Susan Beebe
from BuddyFeed
Eric, sorry if it sounded like I was giving him crap. That wasn't my intention. I think Scobleizer has a serious career decision to make: http://ourdoings.com/ourdoin...
- Bruce Lewis
Hope you feel better, Paul.
- Kol Tregaskes
That will be an interesting interview, thanks for posting this update.
- Dan owns Comicsforge.com
Can't wait for the interview!! Thanks to you and Paul for keeping us updated!!
- Rosemary Sorg
+1 Patrik
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Robert, do you think Twitter is too unreliable or do you think the competition is healthy?
- John Cass
Feel better soon, Paul!
- Ruchira S. Datta
The walrus has eaten the oysters: http://bit.ly/nJrdl
- Michael Slattery
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