How can Al Gore still show his face in public? He's the Maddof of public policy. - Robert Hafer

Robert: did Al Gore rip off thousands of people? I sure wish you'd back up such a ridiculous claim. - Robert Scoble

Al Gore is trying to regulate millions with the fraud of Global Warming. - Robert Hafer

Robert: most scientists I've talked with do not agree it is a fraud. Back that up please with URLs. - Robert Scoble

@Hafer is the Maddof of hyperbole. - MikeAmundsen

Scobez: Dogma requires no proof. What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. - Tad

Damn, Tad, that was deep. - Alex Scoble

I'll have to wait till I'm at a computer; damn no cut and paste on my iPhone - Robert Hafer

Alex: :P - Tad

So THAT's what happened to the Gulf Coast three years ago! They were run over by a MYTH! - Steven Perez

I'll save Robert Hafer the trouble: http://www.cnn.com/2009... - Robert Scoble

LOL! pwnd - Tad

You know, Hafer, you may have a point. After all, we can't have crazy ex-vice-presidents running around shooting their fool mouths off. *coughCheneycough* - Steven Perez

Over 31,000 scientists disagree with Owl Gore http://www.petitionproject.org/ - Dave Roth

Dave: I'll go with CNN over some web site that has an active bias, thank you very much. http://www.cnn.com/2009... - Robert Scoble

Ahh, the old "on my iPhone" excuse. Go figure. I have yet to see anything but websites with active bias attempt to belittle global warming facts. That alone is proof enough for me. - jcunwired

And CNN isn't biased? What makes you think Global Warming is not a hoax? There's no science to prove it, and tons of left-wing agenda that use this non-crisis to further their agenda. - Dave Roth

What makes you think it is a hoax? Show us the science. Umm, while you're at it, how does this fit in with anyone's agenda? - jcunwired

"This whole global warming scam is nothing more than a front for wealth distribution and anti-capitalist activism. Democrats have come up with a great way to do accomplish those goals .. carbon credits. Charge companies and/or people for their carbon output and then let the government use that money to redistribute as it likes." (not my words) - Dave Roth

Yeah, I've always viewed pollution reduction as an anti-capitalist front for redistribution of wealth. Oy! - jcunwired

@Dave Roth: i can't believe you just quoted Neal Boortz [http://boortz.com/nealz_n...]. - MikeAmundsen

The sides are pretty convinced of the truth of their argument. The ice cores of the arctic have proven this is an unusual time in terms of the rapidity of melt and loss of ice coverage. True the earth has gone through cycles and ice ages before but none of this severity with this rapid onset. The extremes of weather is what you need to focus on, not just warming. Some warms will be warmer than ever, some colds, colder, moisture patterns climate will change and economies will suffer on a global scale. - Phil Boiarski

@MikeAmundsen Yup. Neal's been right about this one for a long time. - Dave Roth

I understand why many folks don't want to have severe restrictions on business to combat global climate change, and I understand why many folks are convinced that global climate change isn't caused by man, but what I don't get are people who refuse to believe that global climate change is happening right now or people who don't give a damn that hundreds of millions of us humans will be affected as ocean levels rise. - Tad

Nice job getting all the crazy in one thread, should make for a nicer night tonight. Do we have to leave food for them, or can we must lock the door and leave them here? - Matthew DeVries

It doesn't take a smart person to realize that *something* is going on and that maybe we ought to spend some time thinking about the consequences. I'm not thrilled at the far-left's attempts to use this as a smoke screen to dismantle global capitalism, but I'm also pretty unimpressed at the far-right's dogmatic and retarded response to what's going on. - Tad

To me, it's irrelevant whether it's real or not, I support moving money toward fighting it, because it takes money out of rich people's pocket, and puts it in the hands of scientist who work on ways to control the weather, which is some seriously cool shit that will give us control of our planet, and help us understand how to do the same on different planets to serve humans. So, don't care if Global Warming is real or not, I want everyone else to believe in it so we can fund research into weather control. - Matthew DeVries

Matthew, your point I agree with 100% percent. - Admiral Anika

"because it takes money out of rich people's pocket"...and goodness knows they don't deserve the money they earned. - Craig Eddy

@Dave Roth: "On numerous occasions, Boortz has cautioned his listeners to take no heed nor place any credence in anything he says, as he is merely an "entertainer."" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] - MikeAmundsen

Matthew, NOW your statement about all the crazy is true ;-) - jcunwired

Sorry for the delay. One thing that bothers me is that climatologist relies heavily on satellite data that has only been available from the 70s, a time which coincides with the last low point in the cooling warming cycle. I have some urls to share. http://www.climateaudit.org/ http://www.junkscience.com/Greenho... http://icecap.us/index... http://www.realclimate.org/ http://www.climatechangefacts.info/ and http://www.youtube.com/watch... http://www.boundradical.com/wordpre... - Robert Hafer

If you look far back at media coverage about climate, roughly every 30 years there is a rash of stories about climate disaster; and they alternate between warming and cooling. And another thing, what's with changing the name to Climate Change? If I post my theory of "Time Passes", does that make me right because, sure enough, it does? - Robert Hafer

I don't get the global warming debate. Either you want more pollution or you want less pollution. - Kirk Kittell

@Hafer: Stephen McIntyre (link #1) supports mining and has no climate standing. his sole credit is casting doubt on stats, not *proving* things. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] Steven Milloy (link#2) lobbie[s|d] for tobacco and oil - again no climate science standing and (again) heavy on casting doubt, not proving a hypothesis. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] John Coleman (link #3) is a cute one. Meterologist sounds climate-y but former CEO of the weather channel is not a climate expert [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] The others are a mystery to me and i'll follow your links to learn more about them. - MikeAmundsen

Wow, is Global Warming the new Gun Control. Godwin's law not yet invoked, so probably not. - Shawn Thompson

Casting doubt is kind of the whole point. NASA has twice recently had to "revise" down data they had published on temperature increase. Every week there's a new factor discovered that wasn't included in climate models. You will notice that the famous Global Warming charts have not been updated to reflect the last five years. And, I am used to being called "pro-pollution" because I question junk science. - Robert Hafer

@Robert Are you for more pollution? If not, no problem, wouldn't you say? - Kirk Kittell

@Hafer: the 31,000 scientists link took a bit of digging - it's a Fred Sietz project! [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...] i remember his work for RJ Reynolds when he was debunking the cancer/smoking links. again (sadly) no science standing on climate and again (predictably) all about 'doubt' (need i add fear and uncertainty to the list?). - MikeAmundsen

Ah, so Hafer, you are just a pedantic person? You see the problems with pollution but you don't want to call it global warming because you don't accept the science? OK. But in the meantime the quality of the air around the world gets worse. The ice caps are melting at a rapid (and visible) rate. Maybe the scientists and Al Gore are onto something? What is the price if you are wrong? Seems to me I'd rather be on the side of asking for cleaner air. - Robert Scoble

@Hafer: 'casting doubt' is the whole point if you're a debunker. it's not the point at all if you're a scientist. doubt is not a proof. doubt is not a moral position, doubt is not a fact. doubt *is* an opinion. you're welcome to your doubt. you have every reason to hold to it. on any subject. i have no right to take it from you. you need not prove it. you *can* cite others who share it, tho. as you've done quite well. - MikeAmundsen

Casting doubt surely is something scientists seek to do. Ultimately, you cast doubt on hypotheses, until you're left with just one -- hopefully, the correct one. - Andrew Leahey

The price is spending the time, research and money on the wrong "solution" to the real problem of climate change. - Andrew Leahey

It's just like the Ethanol debacle. Yes, I'm for alternate fuels, but burning ethanol from corn in your gas tank is just plain stupid. Less pollution is great; but carbon dioxide is not the enemy. We need good science, not junk. The Clean Air Act of 1963 caused acid rain because it mandated the removal of alkaline particulates and not acidic gasses. We have to wary of the "DO SOMETHING! ANYTHING!!!" attitude. - Robert Hafer

@andrew: casting doubt? well, maybe. *having* doubt - i think yes. and it's that *start* of science, not the end. i might doubt the theory of relativity, might even find like-minded folks to meet with, pay folks to collect a set of statistics that support this doubt - even post a web site about it. that doesn't raise the standing of my doubts to a plausible (or provable) theory. - MikeAmundsen

I used to be a scientist and have respect for the scientific method. Cherry picking your data and labeling your doubters as "blasphemers" isn't science. there are serious doubts about methodology. Why has NASA made raw METAR data harder to access? If the temperature on Mars is also rising, how can that be man-made? Why start your climate baseline in the 1800s when half of that century was still in the 'little ice age'? - Robert Hafer

@Hafer: "labeling your doubters as "blasphemers" " - you talkin' to me? - MikeAmundsen

@Hafer: RealClimate.org looks interesting. i've not read this before, but recognize some names. i've added it to my reader - thanks. John Everett and Ocean Associates is a slightly diff story. i see he's participated in IPCC and offered testimony re:fisheries. i'll read more, but i have my (wait for it.....) doubts about him<g>. - MikeAmundsen

@MikeAmundsen no, sorry, I was talking about the Church of Global Warming and its Hierophant Al Gore - Robert Hafer

What piece of evidence would you like to see that would prove to you that this is real or will you just dismiss everything from our 'church' out of hand. - Johnny Worthington

I would like to see a climate model accurately predict future weather for one. More transparency from NASA and NOAA would help too. - Robert Hafer

It never fails to amaze me how some people will dismiss a concept out of hand, no matter the preponderance of evidence before them, simply because of a distaste of the messenger. - Steven Perez

Part of my skepticism stems from the fact that I'm old enough to remember the Global Cooling scare of the 70s; much of the rhetoric was the same as today, ' scientific concensus', the urgent need for action. - Robert Hafer

In the 70s, scientist proposed covering the Artic with black soot to prevent the icecap from spreading. - Robert Hafer

I think its hard piecing together a puzzle in a dark room with only a flashlight - Melanie Reed

@Hafer - In Al Gore's movie, he shows a plot taken from Antarctic ice core samples that goes back 200,000 years. There are fluctuations, but we are currently way beyond any of those fluctuations. That convinced me. But also, reducing energy use overall will SAVE money, right? Who doesn't want to save money? If everyone were to just live closer to work in smaller homes and drive their cars less, we would save money and have less pollution. That's why a carbon tax is a good idea. It is technology neutral. - Robert Felty

Until someone looks at the ice core samples it is easy to dismiss the notion. Once that evidence stares you in the face, you realize these people don't care what happens to our grandchildren. They intend not to reproduce. - Phil Boiarski