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Tom Mack › Likes
There is no defense against Denial of Service (DOS) attacks. The bad guys can always throw more bandwidth at the attack than you can.
Kevin Brew, Andy Bold, Rui Pereira and 75 other people liked this
Can a DoS attack be traced?
- Dave "Freedom 35"
The datacenter really needs to handle this in their routers and packet filtering. Expecting web sites to deal DDOS attacks won't work.
- Todd Hoff
Just tuning in right now - is Twitter down from a DOS attack?
- Dean "Karnatos" Michaud
Twitter (web) is back up.
- Dave "Freedom 35"
A DOS is very hard to trace since it's typically done with a zombie network. And you can't route your way out of a DOS attack.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
There are ways to defend against DDOS attacks. Generally, you run out of CPU before you run out of bandwidth.
- Wirehead
No, there really isn't any way to defend against a DOS these days.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
A lot are accomplished with broadcast and other techniques that can be stopped at the router.
- Todd Hoff
I disagree, Alex.
- Glen Mistletoe
That's crazy!
- Kelby
And as pointed out by Mashable - the trending topics on twitter were "Tweet Created" and "Twitter Zombies"
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
they are just shutdown their system to make us talk about them.
- abdellah
DoS attacks can be traced, but are rarely used, Distributed DoS attacks originate from so many different points there is no point in tracing the sources
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Well, you want to see how good your DOS defenses are? Put up a website saying "Our systems are able to withstand a DOS attack so do your best" and see what happens. :)
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Entities having large zombie nets are difficult to defeat in a DDoS attack. Unless you're the ISP, they have more than you do.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Google is probably very DDOS resistant because of how distributed their stuff is, but most places can't duplicate that defense. And it's possible for a zombie net to be able to chew up more bandwidth than an ISP has
- Alex Scoble
from IM
And I guarantee you that friendfeed is just as vulnerable to a DOS attack as Twitter is.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
And you'll notice that I'm not differentiating between DOS and DDOS, because a DDOS is a DOS and is now the most common type of DOS.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Alex - that worries me the most about FF. :)
- phil baumann
Depends on the class of DOS, but bandwidth exhaustion DDOS attacks are certainly one of the hardest to defend one's self from.
- ax0n
I suggest you all take the time to tour the rest of the Internet! Remember there's more than AOL...I mean Twitter out there!
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
Yeah, ax0n, that's what I'm saying. :)
- Alex Scoble
from IM
I don't give two poos about Twitter being down - but broadly speaking, can't good IPSes doing packet inspection mitigate this shit (if the attack is not too high-octane in its own available bandwidth, that is.) Although as Wirehead said, you'll be melting CPUs before anything else, I'd think.
- Anthony Citrano
Here is some research. http://nms.lcs.mit.edu/papers... I'm not fond of words such as impossible, or technical discussion that lacks technical detail.
- Jason Wehmhoener
Well, let's just say it's a lot harder for a service provider to make it impossible to do a DDOS than it is for an attacker to make it impossible to use your service. :)
- Alex Scoble
from IM
I can't post a new thread on FF - ERROR!
- Liza
But yes, the title of this thread should be "For most of the world, there is no defense..." Large organizations like Google can do some things to defend against DOS attacks, like run behind distributed server farms...but 99.9% of the world is not Google.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Then again, this is probably why a lot of people are interested in cloud computing. If distributed systems are the best defense for a DOS, then cloud computing would be a great way to run public web based services.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
If these DDOSes are coming from zombie machines, those machines are probably prone to infection, which means you need your own botnet to attack the zombies and install your own botnet software on them. Whoever makes a botnet that uses DDOSes as a way to find more machines will eventually grow the biggest botnet out there. ;)
- Amit Patel
Heh yeah, and you are starting to see more sophisticated zombie attacks that harden the zombies that they take over to make it harder for other zombie attackers to take over their zombie nets.
- Alex Scoble
just boot your machine in safe mode with networking and run Spybot Search & Destroy, Malwarebytes Anti-Malware, and your anti-virus scans - if it's not cleaned out by that then you might as well re-install windows (which is a good idea from the start since you never really know if you got rid of any rootkits) sometimes it's quicker to reinstall windows than to go through all that
- Chris Heath
Yeah, that doesn't defend you from a DDOS attack though. That just cleans out malware if your PC has become a zombie and is part of a DDOS attack. :)
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Actually there are companies that sell protection against DDoS. It works.
- Leo Laporte
Agree with @Jason here is another link to share for DDoS Attack/Defense Taxonomies http://www.lasr.cs.ucla.edu/ddos.... I think the key to remember is that the DDoS attacks evolve over time. I can see even clouds being vulnerable in that conceivably one can use linked clouds to launch large enough attacks to overwhelm a single vendors ability to scale. Has not happened yet but possible.
- Altan Khendup
There is tremendous vulnerability if they can take Twitter down.
- rob
Twitter just isn't that large, or that distributed. I'm impressed if they can take down Facebook, or Google. (it seems that Facebook was suffering at the same time, and my suspicion is from the same attack - but maybe not)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Does anyone know at this point who is responsible for the attack? This would require a huge bot-net and some serious bandwidth.
- Angus Burton
Great FF conversation here about outages, cause, impacts, etc. ----> http://ff.im/6fF0t
- Susan Beebe
Yeah, Alex... I was commenting in reference to the hardening of the zombies
- Chris Heath
There is a defense, employing a network element which can route around obstacles: carrier pigeons. http://crankypm.com/2009...
- DGentry
There's a denial of service attack that can be used against pigeons...requires a shotgun and someone who knows how to use it :)
- Alex Scoble
from IM
DGentry: There's a follow up to that IP over Carrier Pigeon, IP over Tanks. Paint the 0s and 1s on the side of a tank turret, and such. Helps to defeat Alex's DoS attack on the pigeons. At least to DoS it you need a bigger gun ;)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Chris Heath: more simple way of defeating rootkits: Run the machine as a Virtual Machine, and always roll back to a clean snapshot on reboot. I've employed that method for a long time. Defeats rootkits, viruses, stupid users, and all that. Works for any OS you can run in the VM.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Still not 100% effective. There are ways to take control of the host machine that is running a VM.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Nothing is 100% effective, short of sealing the machine 1 mile underground in a concrete-filled missle silo.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
And FWIW: I have not yet heard any significant news of bare-metal hypervisors (which replace the host OS and which I was referring to above) being compromised (but it will come, or is here already and quiet)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Which breaks rule #1 Must meet business needs
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Ahh, sorry, when you say VM I think of the more traditional VMs running on a traditional OS
- Alex Scoble
from IM
LOL. Yes - but it does make the point of what must be done to truly secure a machine. There is no such thing as 100% security with any remaining functionality
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
I mostly meant things like VMWare ESXi (which doesn't even use a traditional OS for management purposes any more. (ESX is a bare-metal hyper visor, but uses a RH variant as a management box)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Yeah, that stuff is pretty sweet.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
And ESXi is free I believe. If the virtual hardware would just run a video game, I'd run everything like that ;)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Great point Rob (bringing up virtualization) -- and for anyone interested in this stuff, Hak.5 has done a lot of virtualization in season 5 http://www.hak5.org/categor... They get into ESX and ESXi in the later half of the season but virtualization is often a topic for one of their segments.
- Chris Heath
@guruvan (Rob Nelson): there is the alleged Blue Pill hypervisor root kit. http://bit.ly/JCmmP
- Nick Lothian
Not to mention the experimental (allegedly) work of installing viruses on things like graphics controllers
- Alex Scoble
from IM
I wouldn't doubt if it was completely real, Alex. You read about the Apple keyboard bit?
- Matthew Horton
No, I missed that one...got a link?
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Granted it's not done remotely yet - http://www.engadget.com/2009...
- Matthew Horton
@Alex Scoble: most DDOS attacks aren't designed to use up your bandwidth - they generally hit others limits a long time before that. The most common type of attack opens up lots and lots of connections to your website at once. That makes your webservers fall over. For added variety some hold the connections open, so they appear just like a slow web browser, making it harder to detect.
- Nick Lothian
Yep, but if an attacker so chooses, they may rent out a botnet from various individuals and jam your internet connections as well.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
And Matthew, that keyboard hack is crazy awesome.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
The biggest mistake that any designer, engineer or programmer can make is to forget about layer zero in the OSI model...the user layer.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
My bad...I meant layer eight.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
If you ever hear a designer/developer/programmer/engineer say "a user would never do that", fire them on the spot.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Alex, why is it that CERT website dont get DoS'ed ?
- Peter Dawson
This website? http://www.cert.org/
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Alex - if the virus that's designed to hit the graphics controller doesn't have access to the correct host OS, it's going to write to the VMs graphics controller. Which just won't do much.
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Nick: The Blue Pill is an attack on a Windows machine that has virtualization in the processor - it converts the running Windows into a VM and becomes the bare-metal hypervisor on the fly. Using an actual hypervisor defeats that. (though it is a pretty impressive attack)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
@guruvan (Rob Nelson): I'm not sure. http://www.zdnetasia.com/news... says "The researchers claimed Xen hypervisors could be subverted by compromising flaws in Xen software to gain access to Domain 0, Xen's privileged administrative domain. Once that administrative domain is compromised, the virtual system controlled by the hypervisor is compromised."
- Nick Lothian
At least now we're getting a better idea of what happened Thursday. Though it's intriguing how it was aimed at just one person who had different services each of which were affected.
- George Hall (Australia)
i'm not following george... did I miss something?
- Chris Heath
Yep, Chris...the fact there's a pro-Georgian blogger who wrote on all the affected services. Seems all his pages were targetted. A bit more of the Russian/Georgian cyberwar. There's at least a few articles/posts about that across the net. Though, I summarized it at http://geehall1.posterous.com
- George Hall (Australia)
Twitter, Facebook, LiveJournal, YouTube, Google attack was not a botnet, just tons of people manually clicking spam ... related to pro-Abkhazia activist blogger Cyxymu. This is the theory of Bill Woodcock, research director of Packet Clearing House, a nonprofit that helps network operators when they come under attack. CNET (4:32 pm PDT) seems to be the main source of this story, which...
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- Mitchell Tsai
erro not so you can block the suspisious ip addresses / country
- Maurice Walshe
Alex, I when I said CERT I meant this site http://www.us-cert.gov
- Peter Dawson
You _can_protect your site against DoS attacks. Tier 1 ISPs offer DDoS protection using CiscoGuard appliances (see http://www.cisco.com/en...) + BGP + GRE tunnels. They deflect extortion attempts every week for banks and other sites.
- Paul Lindner
Very interesting stuff, Paul. Thanks for the link. I wonder how long it will be before the bad guys find a way to shut those Cisco boxes down and make them cry to mama. It's like a grand game of cat and mouse.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
eh Paul, some of em systems are also vectors for DNS posioning and route hijacking.. ant that a DoS too ?
- Peter Dawson
Peter: Yes, DNS poisoning can be a DoS attack, as well as route hijacking. Typically those are done to deny users access to a given site or service. Occasionally those are used to hijack a service, which has the effect of DoS, but not the primary intention (the primary intention is often to change the message that web site visitors would see, or perhaps to collect sensitive data such as passwords or financial information )
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
@GuruVan, " change the message " is more like "man-in-the-middle", thats a totally different vector !!
- Peter Dawson
Not quite Peter. MiTM is usually executed differently than a straight hijacking. (though the data collection I mentioned is usually a MiTM attack)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
off course, MiTM is executed differently !! Hey, anyway feel free to jump onto my FF bandwagon.. http://friendfeed.com/cloud-d... f:)-
- Peter Dawson
I may be simplistic but couldn't these hackers just doing something worthwhile with their talent?
- Kevin J Hatton
They are often affilliated with elements of organized crime in various countries
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Or affiliated with seedy people who don't like ketchup on burgers
- Jeff (the メガマクダジ of FF)
yeah but remember, in some countries they (hackers) have to protect their young sisters from being sold - so they (hackerS) use their talents to keep the family together. Its an't always what you think it is !
- Peter Dawson
Okay, but are those guys 'hackers' or 'crackers'? AFAIK they're crackers.. no?
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
from email
They are both. :) A cracker is a black hat hacker.
- Alex Scoble
from IM
Or h4XX0r$ ;) ( or god forbid, the evil and feared script kiddies )
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Interesting analysis of Twitter's network: http://www.blyon.com/blog...
- Todd Hoff
Dear birthers: This is a typical birth certificate, issued by the state of Illinois. Note that it looks NOTHING like the original. BECAUSE NO ONE GIVES A RAT'S ASS. Up Yours, Me.
Dante Rose Pleiades, Ethan, Phil G and 48 other people liked this
If it's good enough for an employer, then STFU. Seriously, I can't believe we're having this conversation. If the state says that a document is a birth certificate, then it's a birth certificate.
- Steven Perez
The more people talk about these ridiculous birthers, the more attention is drawn to their cause. They don't care about the facts or reality, just the buzz they create.
- Mo Kargas
With all due respect, you're not the President of the USA.
- Glen Mistletoe
Bunneh 2016!
- Ayşe E.
No, but according to this piece of paper, I could be. END OF STORY.
- Steven Perez
Yeah, fuck you, you fucking idiots who think that our President isn't a citizen. Peace!
- Alex Scoble
While I don't particularly care myself, I would dispute your assertion that no one (cares). The fact is obvious that there are (perhaps deranged, but still vocal) people there who care very much. You can make yourself sound like an idiot by claiming no one cares, but that doesn't make it true.
- Glen Mistletoe
I'm even afraid to ask...but what did I miss?
- Joel Robert Perez
All right, Glen. NO SANE PERSON CARES. Better?
- Steven Perez
By attacking the rationality of the person raising the argument, you're attempting to deflect the argument itself. However, it simply shows that you're ignoring it, and thus giving (IMHO) false credence to it. Better to address the issue than to simply call names.
- Glen Mistletoe
Are you actually saying that you agree with the birthers, Glen?
- Steven Perez
um...according to the rant, he didn't
- Joel Robert Perez
As I've said before elsewhere, Steve, no, I don't. I think Obama is fully the legitimate president of the USA. I'm merely pointing out the fact that, if you use an ad hominem attack instead of addressing the issues raised, you've effectively given the argument to the other side. If I said, "I believe A to be true," and your response is, "only insane people believe A," then you haven't done anything to address the merits of my statement, effectively giving it silent affirmation.
- Glen Mistletoe
Because I'll tell you what this is about Glen: it's about overturning an election. The birthers couldn't care less where Obama was born. He could have been born on the steps of the Capitol building, and he would still not be their president. You don't like the man? Fine. But to try and rededine the meaning of "is", just to to lessen the pain of a lost election - that's a coward's way.
- Steven Perez
I'm sick and tired of both sides of the political spectrum thinking that, by calling the other side names, they've effectively addressed the issue.
- Glen Mistletoe
And you know something else, Glen? Their argument deserves every bit of scorn and derision I can muster. Because the majority of these clowns are fools. I have no respect either for them or their goofball, half-baked ideas.
- Steven Perez
If that's how you want our country to work, Steven, then you deserve what you get.
- Glen Mistletoe
How would you like this argument to work, Glen? They've gotten the truth and ignored it, many many times. At some point you gotta cut your losses and say "some fucktards are just never going to accept the truth for what it is and ergo they are fucking asshole losers".
- Alex Scoble
How much more can this issue be addressed? How much more proof can a person give than a birth certificate issued by the state of birth AND supporting evidence from a newspaper of record? The only way these people will believe he is a citizen is if we build a time machine and take them back so they can see little O crowning. If I believed so strongly that oranges were blue, despite being...
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- invariant - farewell FF
No answer will serve them, Glen. NONE. Nothing short of Barack Obama leaving office will ever satisfy them, and since they chose the most inane way of doing so (a make-believe loophole, instead of finding some sort of crime), they deserve every bit of name-calling they get. No, I have no respect for the lot of them - or anyone who propagates their craziness on any grounds.
- Steven Perez
I don't think a rational discussion is going to happen tonight, so I'll wish you all well and go listen to the rest of "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows" audiobook.
- Glen Mistletoe
Guess what, Glen? On this topic, you won't have a rational discussion - because one side believes that the president of the United States isn't an American.
- Steven Perez
Steven, this is a little bit off-topic but in your first comment you said that it's good enough for an employer. Do you have to show an employer your birth certificate? I've never heard of anyone having to do that in Canada. Is that common practice? Don't mean to derail the thread. I'm just curious.
- Mark Wilson
Steven Perez is REAL!? DYSP
- Nicholas Kreidberg
Mark, yes you must provide proof of legal right to work in the country (fulfilled by birth certificate, green card, visa, etc.) when you start a job here in the US. EDIT: Maybe? I have had to for my jobs at least.
- invariant - farewell FF
Mark: if you sign up with a temp agency, you generally do. Most do, some don't. A passport works, too. (Which begs the question - does Barack Obama have a passport? Because one of the forms of ID for getting a passport is - wait for it - a birth certificate.)
- Steven Perez
Interesting. We're usually just asked if we're legally able to work in the country but I've never had to actually show proof. Thanks for answering.
- Mark Wilson
Don't you have to have a passport to leave the country? Even if you're the POTUS, I don't think you just get to pass on through w/o ID
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
wow, interesting side topic. I've had 7 jobs in my life, in the state of illinois, I've never once had to show my birth certificate.
- Adam Turetzky
The State Department takes the same birth certificate as proof of American citizenship to issue a passport. If it's certified by the state, it's accepted as an original.
- Kenya
I've had a LOT of jobs. Never had to show a birth cert. I think a DL and SSN imply a birth cert. Seems logical to me.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Well, I did say you have to provide proof of legal right to work-SSN or DL are also obviously valid. Nevertheless, I retract my original comment.
- invariant - farewell FF
I had to get a new job a couple of months ago. I had to find my birth certificate and a id.
- Shawn aka ringking
Once I got my passport, I never needed to show my birth certificate again.
- Steven Perez
from IM
only ppl i know who had to show their passport or birth cert were either PR aliens or applying for work with a defence contractor...or telecom, lately.
- Joe Silence is not dead
I think we have arrived at a valid point. You can't have valid ID w/o showing someone a birth cert in the first place, right? So, implying Obama has no birth cert also implies he has no ID whatsoever.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
If you have a social security card, you won't have to show a birth certificate for employment.
- Kenya
I'm looking at the I-9 form that employers have to fill out to verify eligibility to work in the United States. There's a form called Certification of Birth Abroad that the State Department issues. Not one birther has claimed that such a thing exists for Obama.
- Kenya
I used my Illinois freshly printed birth certificate to reenter the US from Canada because I didn't have a passport.
- Andy Bakun
from Android
LOOOOOL
- Myrna
What is all this "birthers" crap? Some idiot the other day here said "I bet you are a birther too".. and I got no idea WTF they are on about lol Yeah.. I was born.. like the rest of us lol. :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Rob: "Birthers" is the collective name given to the right-wing element of Americans who want to find any piddling pathetic little excuse to support their racism and/or zealous political leanings; those who refuse to believe Obama is American and so shouldn't be President (though if Arnie was ever in a position to represent them, well that would be different of course.)
- Mark H
I see... so those who said that to me are DUMB seeing as I am not even an American lol. ;o) Thanks for explaining that for me. :o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
DYSP: But look at the kerning! And the lack of EXIF information! It's obviously counterfeit!
- Jim Norris
Birthers believe in a conspiracy, it almost impossible to convince someone who believes in a conspiracy that they are wrong, because anything you say against their belief they will see as apart of the conspiracy. The one thing you don't do is give them a voice in the main stream media as if they have a valid point.
- Kim Landwehr
I agree with Kim to a point, though the nature of conspiracy theories is that such disregard helps reinforce the story for true believers: "Of course it's true; that's /why/ the media is afraid to talk about it!"
- Andrew C
I guess my point is that when it comes to the Birther, your in a no win situation, no matter what you do or say, its going to reinforce their belief +1 Andrew C
- Kim Landwehr
LIFE is one big conspiracy. ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
Never really followed much of this during the election, but if it turned out Obama wasn't born in the US, then what? Change the Constitutional requirement?
- Kevin Whalen
If you are gonna change your constitution it will be worthless... can't change things on a whim and expect people to trust it.
- Rob Sellen :o)
What?!? You mean the Bill of Rights makes the Constitution worthless?!? No wonder it's all f'ed up!! Anyway, there's no need for a constitutional amendment since Obama was born in Hawaii, and Arnold Schwarzenegger wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell for the presidency even with an amendment ever since he destroyed the state of California.
- Victor Ganata
I'm just glad I'm Canadian where back in the day it was cool that our prime minister was a playboy. (no offense)
- Nathalie, Dreamer of FF
Kevin, no, we don't change our Constitution! (However, judges have 'interpreted' the Constitution in a way that precisely meets their needs/agendas since the framers created it. Not change. Interpret ,-)
- Jess
Actually, we do. That's what an amendment is: the act of amending or correcting; a statement that is added to or revises or improves a proposal or document (a bill or constitution etc.) http://www.google.com/search...
- Steven Perez
from IM
And whether or not the Constitution should be amended is a moot point. The document has been produced; it's not the Congress' job to rewrite the laws of reality for a few racist conspiracy nuts.
- Steven Perez
from IM
If they're not going to believe the evidence from the time machine, then there's simply no hope for them.
- Victor Ganata
I was including Amendments and all Rights under 'Constitution'. I agree completely that the Birther issue is racist and people are grabbing at straws. Just like I believe that it's crazy to think the framers of Constitutional Law could foresee/and think they could forsee all the issues the US would face in its future. That's why the words they used are so broad and not to be taken in a formalist nature.
- Jess
Jess, Rob, that was the genius of the Founding Fathers, that they realized no document could be perfect, so they provided a mechanism by which we could make changes.
- Victor Ganata
Back to the original discussion, I understand Glen's original point regarding ad hominems and such, and it's valid in general cases, but we're now well past this being an "argument." There is no two sides to this anymore. There's the proven truth and that's it. Anyone who argues the other side is, by definition, now making a completely irrational argument, which usually is when ad...
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- Chieze Okoye
The fact that a Birther's belief cannot be falsified with any sort of evidence means the rules of logic can't apply anyway.
- Victor Ganata
hehe, indeed.
- Chieze Okoye
Ok.. well I don't give a shit anyway, about the birthers crap or whatever. ;o)
- Rob Sellen :o)
As I said (in an earlier thread), ad hom may not be 100% correct, but it can be a handy rule of thumb.
- Andrew C
I'm inclined to agree. Asserting that Elvis is still alive does not constitute a reasoned argument such that one is immunized from ad hominems. People who argue things of that sort are rightly dismissed as "bat-shit-loon-fucking-wing-nuts."
- Christopher A Carr
WTF??? Elvis..died? :P
- Rob Sellen :o)
That's an abstracted birth certificate.
- MicahBear78
Obama should make his original, 1961 birth certificate available, just for transparency's sake. According to Hawaii officials, they have it in their vault. So there's no good reason not to show it.
- Rob Sterling
No, he shouldn't.
- Steven Perez
from IM
I didn't know bunnehs had birth certificates. You learn something new every day :)
- Mellissa Claus
Rob, I'm totally sure that the birthers who have not only rejected every piece of evidence to date but refused to even acknowledge their existence will certainly change their tune if Obama were to release the long form birth certificate!
- Andrew C
@Andrew - The only piece of evidence that means anything is the 1961 birth certificate from the vault. And I can't imagine a reason for Obama to keep it locked up.
- Rob Sterling
For those seeking a more visual representation to climate change, check this out - http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009... via @GlobalPatriot
Tom Mack liked this
FriendFeed is VERY different from Twitter & it integrates! No censoring of posts! IN DEPTH convo threads! Easy grouping etc. @frankangelone
The coolest MJ tribute site on the web. So cool. http://www.eternalmoonwalk.com/.
Tom Mack liked this
There goes a number of years of my life, CompuServe was the Twitter of its time: (The Paper PC: CompuServe Classic: So Long, Old Friend). - http://paperpc.blogspot.com/2009...
HealingBrush, Brian Sheehan, Stanton Teters and 53 other people liked this
If I remember correctly, I was 71340,356 on CI$ back in the day.
- Mike Shulman
I am too young to know anything about this.
- Mark
it was my first
- Tom Searing
from BuddyFeed
My first as well. Wow.
- Craig Eddy
I learned to type faster & chat... remember the "CB" ?
- Scarletcat
Never had a CompuServ account - I was on GEnie, loved their RoundTables.
- Ranger Craig
As much as I wasn't even aware that Compuserve still 'existed,' I'm somehow sad to hear of its passing. It was my first online experience, I had good friends and strange experiences on the forums. Anyway, there's solace in the joys of the real-time web.
- Brad Kligerman
I gave a talk last week comparing Compuserve's eventual absorption by the browser based Internet to how OpenSim -open-source, open-standard virtual worlds- will inevitably subsume Second Life and other walled gardens.
- Brad Kligerman
I remember it well. EAASY Sabre...
- James Schipper
I had an account in 1979 MicroNET/CompuServe... ah, with a Novation 300 Baud Acoustic Coupler...that would 'hiccup' if I played my music too loud (The 1200baud direct connect was awesome) I ran a few forums for various companies and went thru all of the versions of the software until AOL bought them. We didn't even have "CB" at first... we did have a programing area where someone made...
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- RAD Moose
Such a sad passing. I got my internet start in Compuserve. I maintained a CS account all these years too, hehe.
- Barbara
Go read Techcrunch NOW. Oh my god Arrington, you have HUGE FUCKING BALLS.
- Mark
I'm sorry, but why must we read TechCrunch so promptly. And they are not balls, they are testicles.
- Zachary TG
:D
- Mark
Ahh, goodbye from 75106,1624 ...how I still remember that, I'm not sure!
- Mike Cassidy
ahh, goodbye 71260,45! the number I remember to this day.....just like mike I'm not sure either. It's kinda like your SS # or birthday. You'll never forget............
- Alex Marrow
First like most, I didn't even realize Compuserve was still around. I think I was about 12 when I first got on Compuserve. Like many it was my introduction to the Internet. I remember leaving for AOL, and being sort of sad, because Compuserve seemed cooler to me
- Ken Goyette
compuserve _was_ cooler
- Tyler Gillies
I remember compuserve. The was another similar service that started with P. Paragon, Paradise, Parallax, Prometheous, or something. What was that one? Got bought out by Sears?
- SuezanneC Baskerville
Prodigy, baby. Prah di gee. They had the Sears catalog, I used a credit card to order some tools using a gopher-style menu and I thought that was pretty cool.
- Brian Hendrickson
It sure was. My first time online was with Compuserve in 1980, right before H&R Block bought them. It was the only service that was available on the Amiga also. I just checked, and they're still in business. I had no idea they were around still.
- Michael Fidler
Goodbye prisoner of war emails 802435.1299@compuserve.com
- randulo
Also just remembered that you could send an email that CIS printed and sent as a letter to anyone in the USA.
- randulo
You dudes probably should do a Moment of Silence!
- aTechDude
RIP as it lays to rest with the faint whisper of a 21 dailup tone salute!
- roger byrne
I spent bucketloads of my dad's money playing IoK. GO GAM-26. 72740,114. Good times.
- Michael McKean
Heh, I wonder if the Mac OS X CompuServe application will still run on modern versions of Mac OS X under Rosetta. That might be "fun" in a masochistic way.
- Tyson Key
I remember playing a text based space game on it for hours....and then the phone came and Dad said no more LOL.
- John D Reasor
John, MegaWars III?
- Michael McKean
If I remember correctly, I had GEnie, then CompuServe (72604,2235).
- John E. Bredehoft
That's it yes MegaWars III thanks Michael I could not remember the name.
- John D Reasor
Are all those discussions etc archived anywhere, or is this another bit of the early electronic era that's vanishing?
- Ian Betteridge
I was a sysop for Computer Associates development forums back in the day 72103,1321 if I remember correctly
- Bastard Operator From FF
Compuserve, Prodigy, and AOL...that were the good old days
- Thomas Chai
You chaps and ladies must be old. I don't recall any of this. I was still shitting the bed in 1992.
- Mark
wait, does this mean that GIFs are now public domain? who owns that IP now?
- Joe Silence is not dead
@Mark: i shat the bed in 1992 as well, but unfortunately it was cos i was fantastically DRUNK. :P
- Joe Silence is not dead
Wonder what Scoble is upto.
- Mark
once upon a time, I was a section leader on CS, in their poetry forums - wow, that seems like forever ago - they were my first internet provider
- William Harryman
I enjoyed Prodigy and then Byte magazine's BIX, where I was a moderator. Good times.
- Steve Garfield
Truly the end of an era. RT @webmink: "I am not a number, I am a free man" - CompuServe closes after 30 years, http://www.basexblog.com/2009....
Tom Mack liked this
Ann Curry Inside Iran - mediabistro.com: Watch NBC at 7PM EST to see why NOW is the time for diplomacy in Iran not bombs & threats. - http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewse...
شوخی, Robert Stevens, Steve C and 4 other people liked this
Ann Curry interview amazing/women's rights!!
- Myrna
Myrna ! it is a fact that Farid has had a great influence on Obama ?
- امیریدر
You think? :)
- Myrna
That's what I have heard and I know that Obama has read all his books
- امیریدر
I know Obama doesn't like the cable talk but maybe Fareed is different, like Charlie Rose maybe.
- Myrna
Anyway. Obama is his own person. He attracts advisors like him and brings out their best.
- Myrna
Can I ask why you are interested ? your job ?or some personal reasons?
- امیریدر
Interested in Hossein Mousavi winning? I think all Americans would like the crazy one out of business...make the world a better place for everyone.
- Myrna
yeah I agree.... except for the crazy right wingers hoping to "bomb bomb Iran"
- امیریدر
But the right wingers didn't win..did you forget? They don't have the power.
- Myrna
No I won't and that's why he's my man http://friendfeed.com/amirrea...
- امیریدر
Saw your heart lol and sweet!!! Obama is more than people who like him think!!!
- Myrna
Here's a brief blog post about my mom, for Mother's Day: http://praguebob.blogspot.com/2009...
Tom Mack liked this
So, it's been confirmed that the current #swineflu outbreak actually started in CA. So where's Michael Savage/ad nauseum's rage on that?
Kol Tregaskes, John (a.k.a. dendroica), Rob Haas and 12 other people liked this
Really? Link?
- Rochelle
What Rochelle said
- Shey, Jamaican of FF
It was on MSNBC this morning. Two kids in CA were diagnosed back in March with Swine flu. But this, to me, is a bigger issue: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...
- Helen Sventitsky
and there is theory it came first from Asia (to CA?) then brought to Mexico where lower medicine level made it more visible http://www.guardian.co.uk/world...
- A.T.
Wow! This is just getting bigger! Isn't it?
- Helen Sventitsky
My belief is it will blamed on a US run pig farm about an hour outside Mexico City. A great majority of the people there had the flu and about 40% of the population work in Mexico City. The practice of spreading the pig manure over the ground is what spread the disease. I will hunt down the link to the radio program and link here shortly...
- Johnny Worthington
Yeah Johnny, I saw that story somewhere this morning too, but the Mexico City people just had flu when tested, only one small boy actually tested positive for swine flu. The whole thing is getting very complex.
- Sally Church
"As authorities scramble to contain the spread of the flu, residents of the small town of La Gloria in southern Mexico believe their village is the source of the epidemic. More than 400 locals say they're suffering respiratory problems from contamination spread by pig waste at nearby breeding farms owned by a US company." http://www.abc.net.au/am...
- Johnny Worthington
AT, what do you mean by "lower medicine level"?
- Rochelle
Here you go... neat story about little Edgar Hernandez, the first child tested for swine flu in Mexico but his case asks more questions than answers: http://online.wsj.com/article... He was the only one diagnosed with swine flu in the village, the rest had heavy colds. Why?
- Sally Church
@Rochelle and Shey: http://online.wsj.com/article...
- Helen Sventitsky
Deport all Californians!
- Admiral Anika
Sally, interesting story and good point!
- Helen Sventitsky
I still can't figure out why this is such a big deal other than the transmission mode, which isn't half as bad as h5n1
- Deepak Singh
Deepak, it is because it has made the leap to human to human transmission. H5N1 has never done that. When it does, it will be way worse, no question.
- Kenton
Agreed and that's why we need to take all precautions, but if every disease outbreak in the third world got this kind of coverage the news would cover nothing else. This is bordering on paranoia
- Deepak Singh
Ditto Deepak! Boring already...unless some ppl would like a little flu chaos added to their own life
- Myrna
In the grander scheme of things, the swine flu has been overhyped. I just don't like what else it's been encouraging...
- Helen Sventitsky
celebrating the life Tom Kennedy & his amazing art here at tonight's memorial, we all really miss you http://tomkennedyart.com
Tom Mack liked this
Just a little topical humor...
Anton, Tom Mack, Morton Fox and 10 other people liked this
yes, bloody dead schwine :D
- A.T.
Piglet Flu sounds decidedly less menacing.
- Andrew Leahey
I love Winnie the Pooh..poor little pig-anyway why do some people get hit w/flu and others don't. It's not exactly just because some get sprayed with a sneeze and others don't.
- Myrna
Photo: Google Rents Goats To Replace Lawnmowers (I’m Not Kidding) Choice quote: “Apparently, every so often a... http://www.brittanybohnet.com/post...
Tom Mack liked this
25 Events today/tonight in Portland including Theater, Comedy, Art, Music, more! http://pdxpipeline.wordpress.com/2009...
Tom Mack liked this
Join the LIVE Earth Day Chat with Majora Carter NOW - http://my.barackobama.com/page...
Tom Mack liked this
Bird's eye view of the earth to celebrate Earth Day. (see also http://green.alltop.com/) http://dsc.discovery.com/news....
Tom Mack liked this
Oprah gets Pwned by Shaq on Twitter - http://news.cnet.com/8301-17...
Peter, Rachel Campbell, Lloyd Doppler and 5 other people liked this
haha When I first saw her tweet I thought the same thing. Why the hell is she yelling?
- Lise
Just watched R2 and 3PO take an escape pod to Tatooine. Damn you, George Lucas, in spite of it all, I still love this movie.
Tom Mack, BuBBy Oxide and LJF Wolffe liked this
reason #6432 why i love allison - because of tweets like this :)
Jared Smith, Tom Mack, Nurse Katie and 7 other people liked this
Happy Easter my friends.
M F, Tom Mack, Allen Harkleroad and 3 other people liked this
Happy Easter to you!
- TVTechGrl
and a Happy Easter to you.
- Allen Harkleroad
Happy Easter Håkan
- Manuela
HOLY SH*T!! TOO MUCH COFFEEE!!!!!! OMG OMGO MGOMGOGMOGMG
Alex Scoble, mjc, Nick Dawson and 11 other people liked this
Getting into the realtime groove I see =)
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
No - just tooo much coffeee@!@!@!@!@@
- Internet's Tad
breathe!
- BEX
Coffee FTW!
- ElijahBailey-Zu of FF <0,
NO SUCH THING! HAVE SOME MORE COFFEE! COFFEE! COFFEE! COFFEE! COFFEE! COFFEE!
- Sparky
working outside and a bird just crapped on my computer.. am I the luckiest girl or what?!
Tom Mack, Pat Hawks, Walt Ruppar and 7 other people liked this
I think the computer is lucky.. !
- Peter Dawson
Would have been a lot worse if he did that on your new haircut!...:)
- Fernando
a bird crapped on my rucksack this morning - are we crap relations???
- Paul Fabretti
fernando, that is soooo true!
- Orli Yakuel
How do you clean something like that?!
- Paul Jacobson
Haha that sucks Orli. I thankfully have yet to be shat on by birds but I think it's probably inevitable.
- Mitch
Was it a Bluebird? Twitter's Bluebird of crappiness?
- shelisrael1
Twitter Fail whale - you gotta love it
Lora Lufark, Vicky, Nurse Katie and 6 other people liked this
Shouldn't that be Fail Wail?
- Richard Carter, FCD
Ah, not this guy then: http://twitter.com/NatHist...
- Bob O'Hara
Did Friendfeed do this?
- Vezquex: God of FF
There is no link to ANY of these in anyone's profiles - what did ff do? I mean, " “Twitter Fail whale - you gotta love it” " is only a text title, no embedded link.
- CLC Radio
I think the traffic on Twitter went way up because of FF's beta.
- Francine Hardaway
Francine - I was wondering about that too!
- Susan Beebe
Is this their "scheduled downtime" they rescheduled for 10am today?
- Jesse Stay
New friendfeed: Twitter that moves? Facebook filtering before Facebook? - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
Tami Baribeau, Nicholas James, Tom Mack and 9 other people liked this
Upside Of A Down Economy: Crocs To Go Out Of Business - http://www.manolith.com/2009...
Andrew Currie, Amy H., Chris Warfield and 106 other people liked this
BEST. NEWS. EVER! Happy Friday to me!
- Mona Nomura
from Bookmarklet
OMG! That really is the best news ever! My hatred for those know no bounds!
- John Wang
happy and sad. Sad b/c more ppl are out of jobs
- Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕
I feel horrible since they're folding but ECSTATIC those things will FINALLY no longer be produced!!!!!!
- Mona Nomura
I'm kind of sad. They are good for the beach.
- Rodfather
Hit the close out sale, Rodfather
- Mona Nomura
I wish I could LOVE a post.
- Chieze Okoye
of course. by no means am I happy that people will be out of jobs. but i really am happy beyond belief that the horrific monstrosities will be gone.
- John Wang
What are you guys so excited about? There are already knock-offs out there, and established footwear manufacturers will make them as long as they sell.
- Kevin L
YAY!!!!!
- Mathew™ one of a kind
What will we have to make fun of now?
- Tamara
Knock-offs are made because ogs sell. If the OGs are no longer produced - so long knock-offs! It's only a matter of time until they become EXTINCT. Thank god!!! Tamara - Bluetooth headsets ;)
- Mona Nomura
As many people as I see wearing them, this is surprising news. Awesome news, but surprising.
- Sarah Perez
YES.
- felix
YAY! I always thought crocs looked like toys on people's feet!
- ursi
My favorite house shoes.
- Yolanda
oh no... will there now be a whole secondary market for these things? collectors and croc junkies paying obscene money for the dwindling supply?? Maybe I'll stock up on them now. ;)
- felix
Over like
- Pete Delucchi
Dust off your ebay accounts!
- Mona Nomura
@Mona Yes! I like this idea
- Tamara
They may be "comfortable" but they sure aren't cool.
- Nicholas James
I probably wouldn't have that big of a problem with them, if more people took care of their feet. OMG gross.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Sad, really. I know people who work while standing all day who thought these shoes were a gift from God. Hate to see them go for that reason. Personally, I never "got into" them.
- Anthony K. Valley ©
from fftogo
THere are tons of other options - in soles, bunyon shoes, podiatrist certified, etc. Those things are just plain ugly.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Boo! Great as house shoes or on the beach!
- WorldofHiglet
Flip flops are your best friend!
- Mona Nomura
from IM
I hate flip-flops too - but they're comfy at home :)
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Andru you just broke the interwebs
- AJ Batac
Hide for Andru Edwards comment
- Mil∂d
AND with flip-flops, there's COMPLETE foot exposure going on so people tend to take care of their feet!
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Mona, what about those cool platform flipflops from Japan that Mugen wears on Samurai Champuru?
- Matthew DeVries
my kids love their crocs. I love mine. and they are cute sandles. not ugly.
- Erin @queenofspain
Swiss cheese for feet = DO NOT WANT
- Mona Nomura
from IM
A) We're not going out of business. B) we have other stuff that aren't the "ugly" iconic shoes everyone knows and c) Losing my job wouldn't be the best news ever. :-p Seriously though - if people talked about our OTHER shoes, maybe we can move on from the comfort but ugly talk into just comfortable and EVERYONE will be happy.....
- George Smith
the company is also very active in social media
- Erin @queenofspain
I AM SO HAPPY
- Mike Nayyar
I hear their social media guy is wicked awesome, cute, and funny....errrr hi everyone
- George Smith
Hahahhaha. Omg I am mortified - George, I will never celebrate you losing your job. SORRY. I just HATE those shoes!
- Mona Nomura
They are ugly--and they seem like they last forever--we'll still be seeing them around for awhile yet.
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
Must pass this on.
- Kevin Pedraja
Erin - those look like logger women shoes.
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Best story ever - when I was interviewed at Crocs, they asked me what I thought of the company. I said I was impressed with their growth but, and I quote "I'm from New York - You'll never see me wearing those ugly shoes." I was hired immediately. I wear Crocs daily - not the iconic ones - but all our other shoes. I don't like some stuff we do, hate others, and am completely passionate about the ones I love. We're not just a one shoe company! ;-)
- George Smith
George - I stand corrected http://twitter.com/Mona... Good to know you still have your job! And I LOVE the interview story LOL
- Mona Nomura
Whoa. EDIT: +10 George. Good to see you're up and working.
- Derrick
No problem. I figured I'd correct you because I knew you'd listen and you're also always online. ha. We are making some cool stuff and I always want to hear what other people WANT. I mean - our consumers are "people with feet." If you don't like what we do, tell us what you want and let us try. Comfort doesn't have to come in swiss cheese shoes. lol
- George Smith
hahahha but props to you for being up on your game!
- Mona Nomura
from IM
Hey - the reason I know you're always online is that I'm always online. That and My patented crocs spidey sense.
- George Smith
Mona, not saying you are one, but the fact someone went to the trouble of writing a definition for "croc-o-phobe" says something about the croc wars. http://shoeblogs.com/2007... :)
- Micah Wittman
Major props to you George, for being up on your social media game. You epitomize a 'good' community manager. ;) Though I still hate those shoes hahahaha ;)
- Mona Nomura
Hey - I don't own a pair with holes. I wear these: http://bit.ly/OzTKG or our Flip Flops religiously. I would probably quit if they made me wear the ones with holes on them. I may love working for Crocs, but I like being the real me a lot more.
- George Smith
Didn't Crocs acquire Bite Shoes (the running sandals company)? Glad they're not going out of business.
- Andrew C
so long... farewell... good bye.....
- Harold
Well I'm going against the grain here and have to say for a long time I was a croc mocker but I had a change of heart when I wore my mates pair fishing on my boat. Yes they look bad and the bright colours suck but talk about the best shoe for walking in the water fishing and grippies shoe for fishing on the boat. For me a sad day to all you hates please spare a though for me when my fishing crocs wear out where do I turn what do I wear suggestion are welcome. 8(
- John Spencer
from BuddyFeed
The free market has spoken! It doesn't like crocs! Yay! :p
- Rudolf Olah
@Andrew - yeah we did acquire Bite (they did golf shoes and running sandals). Here's an initial example of the golf shoes: http://bit.ly/BiteisnowCrocs
- George Smith
Jason hahahha. Chia pets are 10+ years and still going strong. But you are FUNNY.
- Mona Nomura
HAAALLELUJAH
- Kamilah Gill
wait...chia pets are cool. At least the og ones are. I don't know about the new versions of them though
- Tamara
So what will be the next fad?
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Pope condoms joelle
- Steve C
Yeah, I hate that crap!
- Susan Beebe
wait, I just saw that George here said that they *aren't* going out of business. so what actually happened?
- Kamilah Gill
They og article said they MIGHT. George said no. So I Tweeted a rumor smash. :)
- Mona Nomura
from fftogo
Gee... I wear them at work. As a nurse, their great at work.
- Sean
All this over some shoes? what the heck people?
- Bwana ☠
also? lookie at her shoes http://twitpic.com/2imp1
- Erin @queenofspain
<3
- George Smith
OK, QofS, those are some cute crocs on a cute little princess!
- ursi
Dru OMG I can't believe it took this long for me to figure out your super long comment. Deleted, btw. And Erin's Hala is an exception.
- Mona Nomura
Mona, i LOVE my Crocs :-P my feet are in perfect shape thanks to this brilliant brand, thank you!
- Majento
I'm so happy! My wife wears 'em and buys for my youngest as well. I think they are SO ugly.
- Herb Hernandez
You people worry about what others wear WAY too much. Best stick to your own foot wear.
- CW™
Goodbye and Good Riddance!
- Kyle Judkins
It becomes other people's concerns when WAY too many people that don't take care of their feet expose it for COMFORT. Plus, Crocs colors are atrocious. It's criminal, unless you do it right (like Erin's daughter)
- Mona Nomura
but i just saw earlier a pic of a new line of crocs and they looked good :(
- chaz2b
Relax, they're not going out of business! This was a rumor that was squashed :)
- Mona Nomura
no, i just posted the link i was talkling about, http://shop.crocs.com/c-4-foo...
- chaz2b
wooooohooo!
- Christian (Simply X)
I hate this world
- Bwana ☠
It's true that some of the colors are way off, i only buy black ones & they're cool
- Majento
I don't think they will ever go away. Just because you are all hating on them doesn't change the fact that they rock. And wall mart will always sell knock off crocs because they can make a killing. Parents love crocs for kids. If Crocs need to reorg to get past relying on debt to operate so be it.
- Christian Burns
Lol - I'm so far behind this week!! Glad to see George already dropped by and squashed the rumor - after Crocs saved my feet in Austin @ SxSW (thanks to George) I'm a die-hard fan - and no, not of the old-style Mickey Mouse shoes - but of the cute ones I wore all over down there that no one would've known were crocs except I couldn't help telling everyone! :)
- Lucretia Pruitt
I was a "croc-hater" too for awhile. My kids absolutely love them. Personally, I own Nike, Adidas, Prada, Tommy Bahama and Croc flip-flops (normal looking) and the Crocs are by far the most comfortable.
- Adam Rogers
I'm with Adam. I don't wear them myself, but my daughter loves them. And if she loves them and can put them on herself (she's 3), they're winners in my book.
- Jen (SquirrelGirl)
And like someone above said - they're not going away. There are too many knock-offs for the style to go away.
- Jen (SquirrelGirl)
heh. at the horrific prices they charge for original Crocs, I went and shamelessly bought knock-offs at roughly 10% of the price - a whole rainbow collection. my feet love them when I go malling. I save my original Hush Puppies for the times I need to put up an "image" for other people. =)
- Starshadow Rivaulx
My kids love them. I do not. To each, their own.
- Martha
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