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Tomas › Comments
Microsoft's new ads make me realize that its marketing is as clueless as ever.
Nicholas James, Chris Messina, Mike Fruchter and 32 other people liked this
I thought it was clever.
- John Denver
You say "ads"... are we talking about more than just "Shoe Circus"?
- Wade Dorrell
I think this is a beginning of a series to get people talking. Seems to be working so far!
- Paul Reynolds
I just saw shoe circus, sorry.
- Robert Scoble
The ad wasn't intended to do anything more than link Jerry Seinfeld and Microsoft. I think it succeeded. We'll see where it goes next.
- Chris Baskind
Perhaps it's just so darn clever that hardly anybody has realised just how clever it is...
- Jonathan Beckett
Its way to early to judge the campaign, we have no idea what direction they will take with the future ads. I think the first ad was interesting, crap on its own but as part of a larger campaign it may be alright
- Arthur Guy
It's not about Apple, it's not even about us (even though we think the world revolves around Blogs, Facebook, Twitter, etc.) It's about connecting with consumers again. And as pointed out already here in the comments - this video is just the start. My thoughts Microsoft - a Consumer Brand? http://tinyurl.com/5kap2w
- Dave Isbitski
I like Jerry Seinfeld. The jokes weren't clear. the sound on some of Bill Gates' lines was muffeld. I like Jerry.
- Steve Garfield
from twhirl
I wouldn't even call them ads, they are more like Microsoft branded entertainment. It has nothing to do with a product, more just "hey that Bill Gates isn't such a mean guy, he's funny, and look it's Jerry Seinfeld!"
- Chris Stevenson
Did someone in that crew think that the old Taster's Choice ads were especially clever
- Laurie Sefton
from twhirl
For years Microsoft never even had a marketing campaign (at least not one noteworthy enough to reach the average user), and now, they have adopted a shoot from the hip strategy that is sure to keep them as clueless as ever.
- jcunwired
Marketing doesn't always have to be about shoving products and taglines down people's throats. No commercial will ever convince people that Vista is awesome and at least they realize that. These commercials appear to be aimed at MSFT's real problem which is their brand image, and I think this one did a pretty good job at reframing people's image of the company.
- Devlin Dunsmore
from twhirl
i thought it was great. the first of many. and +1 Devlin
- Morgan
It was a funny commercial but in no way is going to help Vista sales IMHO
- David Ward
Marketing is about positioning your brand in the mind of the consumer. I thought they were dreadful, but then marketers always hate each others ads ;-)
- Sally Church
i agree david - but i don't think the goal is to help Vista sales.
- Morgan
I had a group of 12-16 year old Boy Scouts in my home for that, and not a single one of them could figure out what that was an ad for, neither could the adults, non-techies, that were in the room. (and neither could I, the techie) It wasn't until I read it on blogs later that I realized it was a Microsoft ad.
- Jesse Stay
The ad is neat. But I think they need more than neat. I think they've overestimated the esteem of their brand and underestimated the damage of those Mac ads.
- timedalkat
It was pretty subtle. They're trying to say "we get it, we know what you want, and we know we haven't done it yet" but it's a little on the wink wink nudge nudge side. Then again, if they just came out and said "we're going to stop making lousy operating systems" nobody would believe them, so indirect and implicit is probably the best they can do. I don't envy Microsoft marketing and the position they are in.
- Jason Wehmhoener
Seinfeld's show was about nothing. But you had to watch a lot of it to really appreciate it. If Redmond can create that sort of viewing behavior, they have a shot at conveying a message. It's an expensive way to go, but that doesn't seem to be a problem.
- Oldengrey (Jay)
Jason, what are they trying to say they get? Shoes?
- Jesse Stay
from twhirl
Of course all of this presupposes that the people who matter even watch commercials anymore. I certainly don't. I've got better things to do with my time...
- Alex Scoble
And this spots looks like anything but a commercial.
- Chris Baskind
I thought it was slow, boring, confusing, "insider", and denigrating to both of these talented people (Jerry and Bill)
- Roxanne Darling
from twhirl
The interesting thing for me were the Hispanic influences in the commercial from the family wondering who they were to churros at the beginning and ending
- Tomas
from Alert Thingy
I didn't love the ad, but I think this is a long term campaign to put a human face onto Microsoft, something they desperately need. They don't need to sell more vista with this one ad, they need to change everyone's perspective on MS as a company. If they can do that, they'll sell more everything.
- felix
i think CEOs (or former CEOs) make lousy actors - esp. in *ads* for *their* company. bad move.
- MikeAmundsen
Did somebody get a talking points memo about this? I keep seeing comments about "putting a human face" on MS. Whatever.
- Patrick Beard
from twhirl
Nope. Didn't work for me either.
- Jorge Escobar
Sorry I should have been more clear. To me it said that they know their operating systems aren't "easy as cake". Meh, it's an ad. Whatever.
- Jason Wehmhoener
Robert, given your insider knowledge of MS culture, what do you think they need to do?
- Sprague D
Microsoft explains Seinfeld/Gates Ad....http://www.rlslog.net/microso...
- Tim Vo
Democratic National Convention - Denver 2008 Convention Host Committee Media Party = Blogger denied - http://www.denverconvention2008.com/index...
Invite 15,000 member of the media but not the media credentialed bloggers from the DNC. What is up with that?
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Cougar grabs dog from Colo. home as owners slept - http://www.kansascity.com/450...
"A mountain lion crept through an open door into a house outside Denver, snatched a Labrador retriever from a bedroom where two people were sleeping and left the dog's dead body outside, wildlife managers said Tuesday."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
How can a modern day media (newspaper) company launch a new website without RSS? Impremedia did with impre.com back in April when it brought all of its pubs under one umbrella. Last week I mentioned this in my newsletter and today I found RSS on the site. Wonder if I had anything to do with it? - http://www.impre.com
Hispanic Mags Post Double-Digit Ad Gains, but Not All Are Thriving - Advertising Age - Hispanic Marketing - http://adage.com/hispani...
"ad spending in Spanish-language magazines grew 14.2% in the first quarter of 2008, way ahead of the 0.8% growth for U.S. magazines overall"
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Felipe Korzenny: Why Social Media Marketing to Reach Hispanics? - http://felipekorzenny.blogspot.com/2008...
"After conducting several studies with different cultural groups online ( http://hmc.comm.fsu.edu/ ) we have discovered that Hispanics are particularly interested in new technology, having their own personal blogs and websites."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
How do we save journalism? Since newspapers' business model is just disappearing very quickly, and advertising money is moving away from TV too, how do we fund journalism that we all need? Living off of $1 CPMs isn't gonna be it (that won't fund serious journalism).
Gavin, Jay Neff, Cedric Chee and 68 other people liked this
Craig: I saw something yesterday that makes me think affiliate marketing is going to be a BIG deal in about four years. But will it be in time to save newspapers? We're going to lose quite a few in the next four years.
- Robert Scoble
There's two issues here: one is that the product of journalism is so easily distributed now, it makes the purchase of its artifacts (the physical paper) unnecessary and even unseemly.
- Jim Benson
Interesting. I don't think that funding of journalism ala carte like that will work that well. It might here and there, but the real problem is we don't know what kind of journalism we need until after we see it. Would anyone have done ala carte funding to break open Watergate, for instance? No. Not before the fact. Not very sexy for anyone. After the fact? Yes.
- Robert Scoble
The second is that advertising was never quantifiable and never worked very well even in a highly regimented economy. Now, with a more distributed economy, blanket advertising is totally ineffective. -- To solve this we need to solve both problems. (1) dealing with a diffused distribution model and (2) dealing with a diffused economy.
- Jim Benson
Jim: the second part (that advertising isn't quantifiable) is what is killing newspaper business models. If you're a business, where would you rather put your ad budget? The local newspaper or Google? I know where I would rather spend my money.
- Robert Scoble
Value used to be assigned to two things (1) the object and (2) bulk eyeballs. Repackaging the assumptions of media is key here. They are no longer making a broadcast or a paper (a single big sellable object), but, rather, a lot of diffused things which is monetized in different - but not entirely dissimilar ways. What's funny is ... for news ... context sensitive ads are not applicable. At a school shooting story you don't want adds for automatic weapons, for example.
- Jim Benson
Regarding ala carte: I'm going to do another week in Washington DC. It costs about $10,000 to take a video crew there and get media done for a week. If it weren't for a serious sponsor I'd never get to do that. But that's not even serious journalism. To really chew on a story like Watergate you need months of investigative and relationship-building work. Maybe even years. I doubt it could be done by an outsider. That means having millions to fund that kind of work. Ala carte just ain't gonna do that.
- Robert Scoble
Jim: good point, the packaging and distribution of news is totally changing. Local news is moving to sights like Topix, too.
- Robert Scoble
here's one idea via spot.us: "If the public has a freelance budget, reporters don’t have to wait for an editor to approve their story. Now they can seize the day and pitch the public." http://blog.spot.us/2008... for example, crowdfunding Scoble-like reporters/bloggers. something like a PBS for the blogosphere.
- ~C4Chaos
What's interesting to me is that I'm now in a VERY small town, & the TV broadcast doesn't cover what happens up here in this tiny hamlet. So I'm more dependent on the local rag then I ever was back in the Bay Area. Perhaps creating newspapers that that focus on smaller geographical areas or "types" of people (SAHM moms, environments advocates, etc.) - which is, of course, what bloggers have been able to do with microniching.
- Michelle MacPhearson
By thee way, it's interesting that FriendFeed is good for a topic that can be settled in about 20 back and forth messages, but isn't good for longer topics that need a longer effort. We could build an entire conference for a few days around this topic. It's important for our society to figure this out, yet putting all the pieces and all the thinking together on this is very difficult. Admob, for instance, has one tiny piece (really great ads for iPhone) that can play a part in saving journalism.
- Robert Scoble
Unfortunately people are getting too used to free everything and seem to be surprised when people need to put food on the table. My wife is a magazine editor so I know first hand how the magazine industry is basically going downhill fast. People are getting laid off daily and taking pay cuts. I would have to say that the current magazine business model will be done soon after newspapers. Not even by virtue of sales and subs but by the reallocation and sheer lack of advertising dollars in this economy.
- Scott Lockhart
C4Chaos: let's be honest, though, a crowd-sourced journalism is going to give us all the news we already get. Celebrities and sports. Who will fund some geek to do investigative journalism that sounds really boring? I just don't believe in the masses. I think we need a better idea for how to fund this stuff. And, there's a lot working against you. The people with audiences are too busy to tear themselves away from what they are doing.
- Robert Scoble
I still think the key word is Quality. If institutionalized journalist will be able to bring good quality stories the people will buy their paper. In areas like army and politics the veteran publicist have the advantage since having better sources to deliver the stories, in other spaces like tech there's an advantage for internet journalists. Conducting profound inquiries that lead to...
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- Nir Ben Yona
Nir: I'm never buying a newspaper again, no matter how good the journalism is inside. Neither is my son. So, bad assumption there. Second of all, the $.50 you pay for the newspaper does NOT pay for the content inside. The advertising does. So, if the advertising disappears the great journalism disappears too (which is happening VERY rapidly in the Bay Area as the newspapers have laid off hundreds of journalists recently).
- Robert Scoble
I might be coming across as a Kevin Kelly fanboi today but here http://bit.ly/3aAu3e he suggests that people like to pay because it is; "1) A way of connecting. 2) A sign of approval. 3) A vote. 4) It indicates an alligence with the maker. 5) It feels good to the payer, to support." Hopefully this model might work for journalism, music, and other forms of digital art and expression
- jeremy ettinghausen
Nir: I can tell you with a very straight face that good journalism does NOT get readers. What does get readers? Comedy, celebrity, and sports and small, bite-sized news nuggets.
- Robert Scoble
Nir: also, we live in a Google World: a world of niches. Some niches pay better than others. Great journalism about digital cameras or cars pays MUCH better than good journalism about world peace, for instance. Why? Because Google's advertising system is biased toward transactional audiences and rewards the creation of content that feeds those audiences.
- Robert Scoble
Nir: I would have to disagree with you and agree with Robert - it's ALL about the advertising. That's why magazines give away subscriptions at ridiculous prices compared to their newsstand cost - guaranteed eyeballs to sell ads against. Even if readers were still reading newspapers and magazines at the same rate as they did in the 80s, if the advertising $ today were being diverted to more directed internet campaigns (Google, etc) the industry would still be in decline.
- Scott Lockhart
good point on crowdfunding, Robert. but i was thinking more of a PBS model. (also been reading stuff on this topic on http://www.pbs.org/idealab/). the PBS model had been successful for a long time now so its a good place to start. isn't that similar to crowdfunding but without the crowd necessarily dictating what stories to cover? speaking of media and journalism, maybe we can get Danny Schechter (aka "News Dissector" who produced Weapons of Mass Deception) pitch his two cents on this topic.
- ~C4Chaos
Seems to me there are two problems at work: producing paper is quite costly on the expense side (big fixed costs, typically union labor, etc.). And on the revenue-generating side, there seems to be not enough of what folks want to read (not enough local, overreliance on AP wire, etc.). I'd argue that papers' reporting isn't local enough/specialized enough to have value. With the right local/specialized content -- some professionally reported, some user-generated -- why wouldn't PPC work for the papers?
- Eric Johnson
Oddly I was just thinking about this subject. Unfortunately I came up with very little. One possibility is to create an Xprize type mechanisms so people are richly rewarded for the often unrewarding work of journalism. The key isn't newspapers per say, but supporting the idealism of those who take on the sacred work of providing societies' mirror of truth. This is a distributed people's journalism rather than one organized around artificial organizations like a paper.
- Todd Hoff
The PBS model will not work on the web. Why? Because the web decentralizes and disaggregates things. PBS worked because of the bundling of things together. Yanni raises more money for them than Nova does. But on Web bundling Yanni with Nova makes no sense.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: I'm the founder of Spot.Us (mentioned above). I agree that Water Gate wouldn't have been pre-funded, but reporting like this http://wiki.spot.us/election could merit pledges. Right now spot.us is in a VERY early stage (pre-alpha really) - but I do think it's a potentially new revenue stream. Not a silver bullet (I don't think there are any silver bullets), but it can't hurt to try ;) No matter what: I want to thank you for bringing the topic up - it's incredibly important.
- David Cohn
To continue the idea of support create a legal fund to help fight the battles. Lobbying groups to help fight the muzzle. Organize like a church or non-profit so people could contribute to a support network for journalists. Driving journalism solely through profits may not make sense. Journalism a higher social good packaged like spam. Maybe it should be organized more like other higher callings we appreciate?
- Todd Hoff
Private and public funding seems like a more likely avenue to save journalism. Paper press though is all but dead.
- Todd Jordan
I'll go along with Robert, where does an advertiser put his funds? Naturally they want to market to people in their market and not just splash an ad out for people who are not in their market to see To survive the newspaper industry will have to start going further into targeting their ads to a market instead of the the shotgun effect.
- Scot Duke
I know nothing about journalism, I'm just a professional code monkey. But I have a crazy idea - what about something like similar to kiva.org to fund journalism?
- imabonehead
Gregory: I think you would be surprised at how much news that is spread on the web was first broken by paid journalists, even today. I think the real issue is that the method of information delivery is secondary. It is more about having a free and independent "press" (or wordpress) that holds us all accountable and can provide its contributors a living. So losing newsprint itself is not a loss, but losing the 1000s of reporters and writers that are able to do what they do because of it, is...
- Scott Lockhart
@imabonehead Kiva.org is a BIG inspiration for my project: spot.us - in fact, I often just explain it to people as Kiva.org or Donors Choose for journalism.
- David Cohn
David, cool. Didn't see the url mentioned earlier by other posters. It's still an early Saturday for me. :)
- imabonehead
Robert & Scott: I totally understand your point and i do agree when it comes to day-by-day journalism. After all, it is a lose-lose situation for the institutionalized papers, they can't fight the speed and accessibility of internet news and info, especially for busy people like us who have no time for long articles reading while working. On the other hand i do find niche journals like Science Magazine or Nature for example, able to maintain worldwide readers with quality publication and pro debriefing.
- Nir Ben Yona
Nir: I would have to say that I be surprised if they are doing well... Magazines and newspapers are fairly different, yet similar in a lot of ways too. The magazine format with its combination of design and short and long form journalism is a little harder to replicate online and hasn't been done all that well to this point. If you want to see what is happening at least in magazines, even with very niche titles: check out http://magazinedeadpool.com/ There's a whole blog devoted to publications going under
- Scott Lockhart
<continue> with experts sharing their thoughts and researches. That is a quality journalism that attracts readers. Robert, i'm sure your 14 years son won't mind getting a monthly pro car magazine or a "PC Mag" alike version if he's into tech or gadgets. My point is that there is a place for quality and somehow (maybe naively) i'd like to think some people do go after interesting stories and not just "Celeb Gossip". Maybe it is the same as after the bubble burst, sort of a cleaning occurrence...
- Nir Ben Yona
in an ideal world there would be a Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation for journalism where journalists could practice their craft free (or almost free) of corruption. a combination of philanthropy/non-profit/donation and subscription model as opposed to journalism run as a for-profit business would save journalism standards. for example, The Nation (see http://www.thenation.com/) is running on a combination of subscriptions, advertising, and donations.
- ~C4Chaos
<continue> to let the good prevail. In my vision, in 10 years, the big newspapers will have a weekly internet edition threw their website and a weekend edition with more investigative stories.
- Nir Ben Yona
This year in magazines these are the losses in advertising revenues for some very established US magazines. What were are seeing here is just destroying their already small profit margins: Entertainment Weekly (-16.8%), Kiplingers Personal Finance (-15.3%), US News & World Report (-30.3%), Home (-30.9%), and Scientific American (-20.3%) Lucky (-12.2%), The New Yorker (-20.1%), and ESPN The Magazine (-14.8%)
- Scott Lockhart
sorry for possibly over-commenting this thread, but it is a subject close to my heart and my shared back account. :) Cheers!
- Scott Lockhart
Nir: you're wrong. My son thinks magazines are pretty worthless. He reads MacRumors and Engadget, both of which bring him much better and more timely news than any magazine can (and more of it, too). FastCompany is actually doing very well compared to the magazine industry, which is interesting (it grew last year). But the category it is in lost several competitors, so overall the trend is right and probably will catch up with FastCompany at some point which is why we're investing online more and more.
- Robert Scoble
Scott: but maybe it is part of the global recession that has dropped margins everywhere, not just in journalism.
- Nir Ben Yona
I'm interested in saving journalism, but the question posed here seems to be about funding. Guess it's a chicken-and-egg thing. Seems like the distance between the reader and the writer has knocked a lot of the middle folks out of the picture, and it's harder to justify the kind of money they're asking for. When it comes to value in journalism, however, I still prefer hard facts over style, design, even spelling and sometimes grammar (and I'm a picky art director). Trust costs more than packaging?
- ɐ ɯıʞ sıɹɥɔ
Here's the process: 1. End of newspaper advertising ends artificial subsidy funding of "quality" journalism; 2. Supply & demand takes effect; 3. We start to get our first picture of what value people will put on different types of information.
- Dan Conover
We'll know an awful lot more about the future shape of journalism about a year or so after the 20th century metro newspaper system collapses/goes on life support (I'm guessing by summer of 2009, but that's a guess). But the one thing I'm pretty sure about is this: There won't be one way of funding journalism, and we won't lump everything that gets reported under that one heading anymore.The fundamental idea: There should be a logical connection between the info you produce & its supporting revenue streams.
- Dan Conover
Robert: i guess i'm a dope concerning nowadays kiddies. As for FastCompany, i do hope you will keep delivering the good stuff as long as possible. BTW, do you agree with my conjecture of a daily internet edition and weekly hard-copy version, coming up in few years?
- Nir Ben Yona
I think you will get a mixture of rich corporations and individuals trying to fill the gap, like Google. But pushed out from the security of the newsroom, there will also be a flurry of entrepreneurship among the journalists who are displaced. Don't assume that subscription won't work in the future, either. It may well be that newspapers have actually been obscuring the need and opportunity for a higher quality journalism. I believe The Economist has achieved impressive growth against the secular trend.
- Tim Penn
journalism doesn't necessarily imply newspapers, does it?
- Adri Munier
No, but about 90% of what "A-List" blogs do is NOT journalism. I'm no authority, but I'm beginning to see why people say there is a difference. "Editorial Discretion" Oh, @Tim, you're absolutely right. Online and print content can thrive in a subscription model if there is value. The mistake newspapers made was giving it away in the first place.
- Andrew Feinberg
And the general newspaper model makes zero sense now. A daily packaged product can work for niche content, but who reads the entire newspaper? I use the big paper websites for different reasons (local, national, international, etc). Political news? Niche publications. I buy (or sometimes expense) Roll Call, CQ and CongressDaily. People in the Cable/Internet/Telecoms buy CommDaily and WID. There are tons of other niche trade pubs that are thriving. It's the blob of daily newspapers that needs to be split up
- Andrew Feinberg
It's important to realize that journalism is a process, not a product. Newspapers might not survive but the craft of Journalism will. The question is... how? There are no concrete answers right now - but I do think that practicing journalists are earnestly trying to figure that out (for the first time). @Robert - I don't think Ala cart funding for journalism will lead to Brittany Spears stories. There are ways around that - I'll try and write a blog post at blog.spot.us with more details.
- David Cohn
Since there is no known answer to this question, the most important thing to do right now is launch as many possible experiments in as many possible directions, increasing the likelihood that we will find good answers a little faster. But it's vital to understand that this is essentially *research* -- practical research, but research nonetheless. And in research, the dead ends are...
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- Scott Rosenberg
This is currently an unsolved problem, a hard concept for some to grasp. Every possible answer--rich people! foundations! internet advertising! crowdfunding!--has some pretty glaring defects. No one has the solution yet. Right now the most promising developments are Talking Points Memo (http://is.gd/1cVX), funded by ads and reader support and doing investigative journalism of the kind we want; Pro Publica, funded by rich people (http://is.gd/uLu) and spot.us, which is crowd funding.
- Jay Rosen
Jay lists 3 good funding sources. Also consider: Nonprofit corporation (supported by pledge drives, sponsorships, foundations, etc.); true-cost intelligence subscriptions (as with STRATFOR) and smart amalgams of keyword/display/classifieds/and various affiliate-type programs. And where I think it gets REALLY interesting is when you start creating information tools that have specific value to the end user. You add value, you take profit.
- Dan Conover
The trick? In Web journalism, you're paying for people costs. You're not paying for trucks and paper and ink and presses. So when people say "The Web can't pay for journalism" what they're REALLY saying is "The Web can't support newspapers and TV stations."
- Dan Conover
The thing I'm really looking forward to putting my energy into is developing some kind of smart, shared business infrastructure that would connect individuals who make content to all the reliable services that a new-media businesses will need to make money. You might be able to make some money writing useful articles and selling your own ads and doing your own site, but that's not a bright long-term prognosis. And yes, I'm a newspaper guy who signed up for a buyout last week.
- Dan Conover
Won't journalism always win Pulitzers? Which brings a sort of global cache and prestige... which is what newspapers hope to gain, such that the world will pay attention, right? That's at the highest level. There can always be prestige and prize for journalism at all levels... even if it has to come from new sources.
- Christopher Galtenberg
it's so easy... just do as in Italy, where crap newspapers (most all of them) are financed by the government!
- Luigi Centenaro
Newspapers are thriving in the ethnic market, primarily at the local level. The reason for the success is that their readership is starving for intl/local ethnic information. Weeklies are the way; most papers are run by journalists from their respective countries-it is extremely streamlined. Journalists need to take the initiative with sales professionals and open up local, weekly newspapers that serve specific niches/markets/topics. Also, home delivery is a must, as is a strong grass-roots component.
- Harold Cabezas
Robert, I think you could ask a different question here, too. Was there a journalistic failure running through the housing bubble and its aftermath? In his new book, Robert Shiller suggests there was, but he made the arguments clearly before about the tech bubble. Given the scale of importance of this story, if we ask what might journalism have done differently, the answer might also suggest useful commercial or funding structures.
- Tim Penn
Altrustic funding isn't the answer. Newspapers will have to stand on their own merits just like any capitalist enterprise. I'd like to more Nritish style
- Hutch Carpenter
British style that is. More point of view included in the reporting. You win on your point of view.
- Hutch Carpenter
Journalism needs a couple of things (1) a lower distribution cost structure and a lower news acquisition cost structure. If you look at online news folks (like Scoble, others) they've found an effective way to lower the distribution costs of their journalism. To lower news acquisition cost you need to look for alternatives to collecting news, whether it's UGC or leveraging a freelance network like Beet.tv is doing with TurnHere (disclosure - I work for TurnHere).
- Morgan
<continued morgan> (2) the big media companies need to move quickly into diversified news outlets (as has been mentioned above) reducing the number of pages in newspapers, moving from trying to bash the mass over the head and instead move towards aggregating the long-tail of news consumers to roll up in to a critical mass not through one communication vehicle (i.e. a paper) but through many diverse channels. Finally they need to go for more sponsorship money and less ad money as we've seen in other biz.
- Morgan
whatever it is can't be based on lame-O advertising cuz i NEVER click those.
- Susan Beebe
I haven't commented on this yet because I really don't have anything substantial to contribute yet. But it's had me thinking for 24 hours. I guess that's not a bad thing.
- Chris Baskind
One of the things implied in all this (at least for me) is the idea of completely self-selected news. It's an exciting development to be able to do that, but what are we missing? Scoble hits it on the head when he says Watergate reporting wouldn't get done under this model. If we're going away from news bundlers like newspapers, can we find a new business model to finance serious journalism? And what does a society without serious journalism look like?
- Tom Landini
I don't like that I can't tell when these comments occurred. I have no idea if I should bother to comment. Has the conversation moved on or do people come back and talk more?? And what's with not being able to use paragraphs? Lots of text is a pain to read.
- Dawn
Lots of interesting thoughts here. I have to say that this very subject is on my mind daily as I personally aggregate Hispanic news and have done so for 3 years to the tune of 40k+ posts. Just one niche among many but I worry about the loss of journalists especially since at least within the Hispanic community it is perceived that there aren't enough journalists covering issues...
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- Tomas
Dawn: yeah, time stamps on comments would be very cool. Generally I find a conversation on FriendFeed can go on for about a day. Same with this one. it's pretty much died out, even though a few interesting comments have trickled in today.
- Robert Scoble
Then FF will never go mainstream. "Non-passionates" don't want to have to be plugged in 24/7 in order to be able to participate. Thanks for the clarification.
- Dawn
I'm actually doing a three-post series on how the internet has changed the economics behind the publishing business this week on Eat Sleep Publish. I'm also doing an event (a mini mini version of what Robert suggested above) in Seattle this Septermber to get smart ppl together to round-table about what the business model is. Robert - you going to be in town?
- Jason Preston
All I can say is - I hope newspapers will not go away - since I enjoy the print medium and the ability to carry my paper without having to plug it in every time. One of the reasons why i pay for my Economist is the convenience of having it, rolling it up and enjoying it without having to wait for XP or MaxOS to boot and show it. And even with always-on OSes (like Palm and iPhone), still enjoy the feel of paper.
- Sanford
Further to my comment about Robert Shiller and the role of the press in positive and negative feedback loops, a full review of the book is here http://bit.ly/1IFiZb, with further links out.
- Tim Penn
Question: WHY do we want to save journalism in the first place? Why not let it die its own death like fax machines and pagers.
- Mukund
In the UK we have something that will buck the trend: the BBC. It's funded by a "licence fee', which you have to own BY LAW to have a television in your house. I.e. If you don't have a licence, you're busted. Sure, the BBC has to justify the fee annually, but the UK population seems, on the whole, happy with what it gets: unique, high quality local and national TV, Radio and web uninterrupted by advertisers. A place where in depth "Because it's important" type journalism may still be able to flourish?
- Tom Beardshaw
First, get the facts on ad revenue for newspapers. Yes, ad revenue is shrinking for papers and they have had to shed bureaus and reporters. But they still get more money for their paper ads than their online ads. And they aren't standing still, they are evolving as well, the pressure of all the blogs and podcasters has forced all the major news sites to completely transform with all kinds of user-friendly features. And you still find the Murdochs of the world buying papers. This story is far from over yet.
- Prokofy Neva
I cover Bakersfield City Hall. It is not big and glamorous enough for these national-oriented projects like ProPublica. Yet I doubt I could be funded by donations because the crowd who would donate is similar to the crowd that runs for office -- politically slanted. I could get funding from one of the conservative camps by being sympathetic to them. But how does that serve the community?
- James Geluso
The REAL problem is there really isn't much "legitmate" journalism out there anymore anyway. As a former reporter, what newgatherers are putting out there for average citizens day in and day out is absolutely pathetic and, many times, inaccurate. With reporters having to do more with less, the problem continues to grow. Advertisers should "buy" with more caution than ever...or not at all!!!
- Jennifer Windrum
Newspapers as we know them are doomed because they're no longer a sustainable product in the era of the internet. The question is why should the whole industry (journalism/publishing) die because of the medium (paper). They must figure out a way to become profitable through the new medium (the internet). I think The Wall Street Journal has the right formula. Not so much the The New York Times.
- moncef b
Mark Cuban was onto something with sharesleuth: http://sharesleuth.com/about.... The company funds good investigative journalism by trading on the information in the financial markets first, publishing second. Barring that, I believe it may be time for public journalism as ~C4Chaos argues. If people really want good journalism, they should be willing to pay for it.
- David Pennock
Fish Fade Away, Crabs Take Over - Yahoo! News - http://news.yahoo.com/s...
"Global warming has caused dramatic shifts in some aquatic communities in which fish populations die off and lobsters, crabs and squid move in."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Political Freelancers Use Web to Join the Attack - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2008...
"In previous elections, an attack like that would have come from party operatives, campaign researchers or the professional political hit men who orbit around them. But in the 2008 race, the first in which campaigns are feeling the full force of the changes wrought by the Web, the most attention-grabbing attacks are increasingly coming from people outside the political world. In some cases they are amateurs operating with nothing but passion, a computer and a YouTube account, in other cases sophisticated media types with more elaborate resources but no campaign experience."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Seth's Blog: The magic of low-hanging fruit - http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_b...
"Imagine that half the cars in the US get 10 miles per gallon. And half get 40 miles per gallon. Further stipulate that all cars are driven the same number of miles per year."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Fish and pigs and chickens, oh my! | Gristmill: The environmental news blog | Grist - http://gristmill.grist.org/story...
"Farm animals consume 17 percent of wild-caught fish"
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Australian crocs hit by cane toad 'wave of death' - earth - 27 June 2008 - New Scientist Environment - http://environment.newscientist.com/channel...
"Pit a cane toad against a freshwater crocodile and who wins? Although the croc eats the oversized amphibian, it seems the toad has the final laugh. Dead freshwater crocodiles in Australia's Northern Territory were once a rare sight. But since 2005, locals have witnessed mass die-offs. Researchers now say the toxic and invasive cane toad (Bufo marinus) is to blame."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Hungry spiders spin deadlier webs - life - 27 June 2008 - New Scientist - http://www.newscientist.com/channel...
"BLACK widow spiders vary their webs to suit their purpose. A hungry spider spins a deadlier web, while a full one builds a fortress."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Honey Bee Crisis Could Push Food Prices Even Higher - Business on The Huffington Post - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008...
"Food prices could rise even more unless the mysterious decline in honey bees is solved, farmers and businessmen told lawmakers Thursday. "No bees, no crops," North Carolina grower Robert D. Edwards told a House Agriculture subcommittee. Edwards said he had to cut his cucumber acreage in half because of the lack of bees available to rent."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Must read CIBC report: $7 per gallon gas by 2010 | Gristmill: The environmental news blog | Grist - http://gristmill.grist.org/story...
"Ten million cars off the road, 1970s style GDP growth"
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Sodas of The Times - Root Beer - A Drink in Search of a Frosty Mug - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2008...
i love rootbeer
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Barrier Reef 'no-take' zones see leap in fish numbers - earth - 23 June 2008 - New Scientist Environment - http://environment.newscientist.com/channel...
"A controversial decision to halt commercial and recreational fishing across vast areas of the Great Barrier Reef has proven remarkably effective for reviving coral trout numbers."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Media Talk - ABC and Writers Skirmish Over After-Hours E-Mail - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2008...
"BlackBerrys blur the lines between work and play. A recent dispute at ABC News asked: at what point does checking e-mail after hours constitute working overtime?"
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
EarthTronics: Wind-In-A-Box « Earth2Tech - http://earth2tech.com/2008...
"Courtesy of Muskegon, Michigan-based company EarthTronics, sometime next year customers will be able to buy wind-in-a-box, in the form of a $2,000 wind turbine called WindTronics"
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
In Financial News, Thomson Reuters Sets Its Sights on Bloomberg - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2008...
"Thomson Reuters is going hard after Bloomberg L.P., which has long been the marquee name on Wall Street for financial information. The companies are in a dead heat: Thomson Reuters has 34 percent of the market for financial data and Bloomberg 33 percent."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Ad Leaders See Web’s Threat and Promise - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2008...
"Ad executives worry that Google and Microsoft, which is moving to bolster its capabilities in search and other areas of online advertising, will not stop there. They fear that the companies want to extend their reach into traditional advertising — transforming, as they see it, a business built on creativity to one controlled by the sterile algorithms of computer programmers."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
BBC NEWS | Europe | France in EU row over tuna catch - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2...
"France has hit back at the European Commission for calling an early halt to industrial fishing of bluefin tuna in the Mediterranean Sea."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Gadget recycling may be poisoning China's children - earth - 05 April 2008 - New Scientist Tech - http://technology.newscientist.com/article...
"Seventy per cent of the world's discarded phones and computers are exported to China. Most are processed in family-run workshops, where the circuit boards are ripped out of old equipment and heated over open fires. This melts the solder, allowing individual components to be removed and resold. The bare circuit boards are then burned."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
PC population reaches a billion as e-waste piles up - tech - 23 June 2008 - New Scientist Tech - http://technology.newscientist.com/channel...
""Some 35 million PCs will be dumped into landfill with little or no regard for their toxic content," said Gartner analyst Meike Escherich. "It will become an even more pressing issue, especially in emerging markets, as the number of retired PCs grows with the continuing expansion of the PC installed base," she said."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Inhabitat » Slovenia’s Gorgeous Honeycomb Housing Complex - http://www.inhabitat.com/2008...
really beautiful
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
BBC NEWS | Health | Chickens 'unlock allergy secrets' - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2...
"Scientists have turned to chickens to help them understand why some people are struck down by severe allergies."
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
Sweet Rewards for Apricot Explorers - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2008...
i love apricots
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
YouTube - Pop corn with cell phones - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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kind of scary if you think about it
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
PHOTOS: Africa Satellite Images Show Stark Changes - Lake Chad - http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news...
once the 6th largest lake
- Tomas
from Bookmarklet
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