FoaF brought you *items* from other people using your current friends as a filter. Lists do not do that. They simply give you a list of people who have been defined by a friend. If you look at that list you're not going to get content that matches that definition. They are *very* different IMO.
- AJ Kohn
or another way for people to say "look what people think about me"
- Josh Haley
@Josh: Yup, for those who haven't graduated beyond caring what others think about them.
- AJ Kohn
Look at this list and tell me if you can figure out the topic: http://ff.im/aQouI And if you can, does it really deliver value?
- AJ Kohn
AJ - glad to hear you've graduated beyond caring what people think of you..
- Andy Connell
@Andy: Got over that sophomore year of high school and never looked back. Doesn't mean I don't treat people well, but ... you just can't control how others are going to think about you and it's pretty dreary worrying about it.
- AJ Kohn
Agreed that lists are not a way of restricting content; they're a way of restricting people. But IMHO it's all the same as far as I can tell—the FOAF feature shows me new people because one of my friends likes their content; the lists are another mechanism for doing that, but the people are hand-selected by someone else, and not based upon a single piece of content. Ultimately, both...
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- Glen Mistletoe
I just don't see them as the same. With FoaF I'm assigning a weight to the content (and thereby people) when I like or comment on an item. People subscribed to me may use me as an SEO filter, and so I'm selecting the best SEO content and passing it along. I take that ugly list view and pass along what's good. A list doesn't come with any assignment of weight. You're only getting a...
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- AJ Kohn
So, if I put you on a list of "SEO experts," wouldn't that explicitly be a recommendation to others that you'd be a good person to follow for that topic? Because there's no way (on Twitter or FriendFeed) to subscribe to a "topic"—if a person wants to follow SEO as a topic, then they need to follow SEO people. With FriendFeed's mechanism, you do this by highlighting a single piece of...
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- Glen Mistletoe
@Glen: That would be nice of you. But the problem is I talk about a lot more than just SEO. Heck I'll toss in LOLcats quite frequently!. So they're not always there, that's what I'm saying. So, if someone looks at that noise, that person might actually think YOU did a bad job with your list - even though you didn't. And if I'm one of 100 people on that list, am I really good or middle...
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- AJ Kohn
So, to be effective, you shouldn't ever follow anyone? Just use saved searches? Not sure I understand the reasoning there. How do you know what to search for if you want to discover interesting but unknown things? Do you expect every SEO-related post to have #seo in it?
- Glen Mistletoe
@Glen: No, no, no. I follow some SEO people who are good at bringing me SEO content. (However my main feed does adhere to Dunbar's number.) I have people (filters) for many topics. Michael Fruchter is a fantastic social media filter and Rob Diana does the same for Tech. Atul Aurora and Mahendra also do a stellar job in this regard. I don't need to be subscribed to everyone because FoaF...
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- AJ Kohn
Friendfeed’s Paul Buchheit has just confirmed to me that the next ‘big’ new feature coming to Friendfeed, will be the last. This comes a day after Buchheit issued a confusing statement about the future of the platform he co-founded. Here’s what Buchheit just told me, in full:
- Jim Connolly
from Bookmarklet
Mark: Not sure how it would change things for Paul and the guys - they just sold out to Facebook and have more money than they will ever need. (and they deserve every fricking penny BTW!!!)
- Jim Connolly
Well they sold for 50million, of that the various investors probably got 60-70%, with founders and early employees splitting the remaining 15-20million. Probably no more than a few million each (yeah nothing to spit at), but if they cashed out taxes would cut that in half, I think they still have to keep working. I think they sold too cheap, with 1 million users some focused and tasteful ads would have gotten far more revenue.
- Mark Essel
whew, got ya refollowed (went through and cleared out my following list on twitter now that I may have to use it again ;). staring from scratch)
- Mark Essel
A sign of how quiet things are now on Friendfeed? I've had 5 (FIVE) click-throughs from friendfeed to my blog after posting this here. 3 months ago it would have been massively more. Really sad watching it die slowly like this.
- Jim Connolly
Is that really a sign that it is dying or a sign that people are tired of reading the "death of friendfeed" posts?
- Alan Simpson
Alan: Not sure - but when a post has twice as many 'likes' as clicks it means something. That same post's been read over 400 times so far - so there's some interest out there.
- Jim Connolly
Mark: not true. Advertising for a million users wouldn't bring in that much on a forum-based site. Average CPM is about $3 per 1,000 page views. That wouldn't make anyone rich. The way Paul will become really rich is to help make Facebook a public company (they are well on their way). That means pouring all his skills into making Facebook a better service for its 300 million users (and growing).
- Robert Scoble
Alan: And there's no longer a debate - the co-founder confirmed no new development.
- Jim Connolly
It's also worth pointing out how much respect I now have for Paul, for being good enough to let us know the future plans - well, lack of future plans. That took balls and he deserves some credit.
- Jim Connolly
Feedback please: Do I delete my account now the platform's no longer being developed?
- Jim Connolly
Why would you delete it ? A lot of things have always just been fed through here without active participation.
- Eric Logan
So Jim, this is why you were pestering him so much in the thread? So that you could get a catchy headline for your blog? He said - "Jim, there may be a few new things, but as I said, the team is mainly working on fb platform and openness, so it's unlikely that there will be any big new features of ff (except maybe one that I've been thinking about for a while...). I don't see that as a...
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- Kenton
When platforms cease being invested in, as you know, they slowly grind to a halt. Is it better to invest the time I spend here on a platform that's growing - rather than shrinking?
- Jim Connolly
Kenton: I don't need a catchy headline for a blog, thats only updated a couple of times a week and run as a pastime. The feedback you gave about deleting accounts screwing up comments makes sense. When the co-founder says that "it's unlikely that there will be any big new features of ff" I believe him.
- Jim Connolly
I guess it depends on why you're investing your time. If it is in the community, then I don't see why you can't still contribute. If you're using it for increasing your personal brand, business, blog traffic, etc then you are probably right to invest your time on sites that see more traffic and growth.
- Kenton
Kenton is right, you're title is wrong, fact. He did not say NO new features.
- Keith Bennett
If engagement continues to go down everyone will eventually migrate. I am sure there are a few groups talking to each other and the bots on Friendster. I do not see any reason why you would not continue to pipe in your content. I haven't found or been introduced to anything better at present. I do see some potential for Wave with proper development despite its complexity.
- Eric Logan
There's really nothing cool about all this cryptic communication Paul is giving us. All it's doing is riling us up and causing us to be unnecessarily speculative. We made this site be worth 50m, so we therefore don't deserve to be strung along like this.
- Brad Williamson
Keith: Did you interpret "it's unlikely that there will be any big new features of ff" as meaning there WILL be more big new features?
- Jim Connolly
"Thank you" - Seems the route is to keep the account alive, rather then mess up content for other users by deleting it. Appreciate the heads-up.
- Jim Connolly
Gotta go. Just subscribed to everyone who's commented here - so you can DM me. Really appreciate the feedback.
- Jim Connolly
Jim: No I didn't, but I also didn't post an article saying there will be NONE! Fact is, we don't know what they are up to, what they plan to do and that's what causes the speculation. You're adding fuel to the fire and I think you should change the title, that's all. Personally, I'm in the wait and see what happens camp. I'm happy with the service as is and I'm sure what emerges from the FB integration will be interesting, but until I know what that is, I'm happy to continue with what I have.
- Keith Bennett
y'all are beating a dead horse here. of course it's gonna die. Of course people are jumping off the ship. look at any number of other tech acquisitions and what became of them. It's not really that complicated.
- Bill Kinney
ICQ still exists...Winamp still exists...AOL still exists (but why?)
- Alex Scoble
Robert: $3 per 1000 views is pretty bad. I think I can do better through use of learning about what folks like in their streams. Heck I can't believe search activated ads are that weak. Well in a few more years that may be profitable (bandwidth/servers/etc are all getting cheaper, while our attention is staying even in value).
- Mark Essel
Another FriendFeed self prophecy post. Cast doubt about its future so users begin leaving, then it will HAVE to close because of lack of users! You should be doing the opposite and encouraging folks to join...its users that keep a service afloat..
- technogran
Introducing Audrey to the awesomeness of Mel Brooks via Young Frankenstein. I mean, hey, Halloween's just around the corner. Might as well get her started off early and right.
Wow. Madeline Kahn died ten years ago. It's crazy that it's been so long.
- Akiva Moskovitz
And not to slight Mel Brooks at all but his best work has always been done with a co-writer. Young Frankenstein with Gene Wilder and Blazing Saddles with Richard Pryor.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I like that he stayed married to Anne Bancroft for over 30 years, a rarity in Hollywood.
- Alex Scoble
I always think of the line..."Abby Normal"....
- Brian Appleby
If you think that mocking and insulting an entire group of people for their views is the same as disagreeing with those views, then you have a whole lot of growing up to do.
Yes, mocking those who believe that gay marriage is wrong by calling them unsophisticated, low-brow, uneducated, and worse. Very wrong.
- MVB (Curmudgeon of FF)
Oh. I thought you were being sarcastic! I'm totally off my game today.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I was looking at it from the subversive humor angle, regardless of how the participants choose to see themselves.
- Jennifer Dittrich
I've just yet to see where engendering hostility in others has ever lead to anything other than more hostility.
- Akiva Moskovitz
Akiva, just keep it simple: to hell with all the people's opinions out there, except for ones you care about.
- Sasha Kovaliov(.com)
Sasha, yeah, I agree fully. I mean, I have some of the thickest skin out there. It just irks me when people go so far as to get organized to antagonize others. The results are always the same: it makes the antagonizers feel smugly superior and it widens the gulfs between people.
- Akiva Moskovitz
++ to the hostility angle; it does feel like there should be an "a pitchfork for the first 1000 attendees!" tagline there somewhere. I think my brain went to the (funnier) blasphemous jokes I've heard over the years, rather than that direction.
- Jennifer Dittrich
Akiva, there is a great solution: "Kill all humans" :) If someone is stupid enough to fall into an organized bashers group - well tough luck for them.
- Sasha Kovaliov(.com)
Who wants to organize a bludgeoning squad to kill all humans?
- Jimminy
Jimminy, it won't work this way. It's an everyone-is-for-himself competition :)
- Sasha Kovaliov(.com)
Can we make an exception for Ayn Rand?
- Mark Trapp
Sasha, but I enjoy bashing people, maybe I'm stupid and having tough luck.
- Jimminy
No, she will have to go, I had to google that name :) Jimminy - tough luck ;)
- Sasha Kovaliov(.com)
Definitely agreed, Akiva. I don't understand why people don't see this. I fall into this trap on occasion, but, you're not going to see me carrying around a pitchfork anytime soon.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
MVB, I'm gonna need that ring back. Hmmph!
- Derrick
The problem is, how does one continue the argument once the other side has gone down this path? 'Simply ignoring' these people isn't always the answer, especially when that action is being taken by the same people who also control the ability to change it.
- Johnny Worthington
I'll debate with you 2moro. Goodnight :) Don't kill each other, I still want to have a place to hang around at work :)
- Sasha Kovaliov(.com)
Johnny: if you can't simply ignore them, one effective tactic Platocrates taught was to shame them. Make it uncomfortable to hold such a position in public and the argument ends, even if you haven't convinced them that they're wrong.
- Mark Trapp
For context, I think Akiva posted this in response to http://friendfeed.com/fuerve.... I agree with Akiva, organizing a day for mocking religion is a terrible idea. But if I read http://scienceblogs.com/pharyng... right, the idea is to celebrate the fact that we have free speech and can live in a society where we...
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- Stephen Mack
Agreed with Mark. If pointing out their error doesn't make them change their tactics, you have to take evasive action before you can get back to the core issue.
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
I know, lets all bash people who bash other people! >.> Errr, I mean. I, for one, am guilty of name calling from time to time, yet I can agree with Akiva that it generally doesn't help the discussion. ^^
- David C. Cooper
"Just about everyone knows something about the placebo effect. Essentially, it refers to any pretend treatment that has no direct effect, but somehow induces hope, which in turn produces positive results. For example, it is well-known that placebo (or sugar pill) performs just as well as antidepressants. It is also highly effective for many pain syndromes. I use placebo all the time with my kids for minor injuries like scrapes, bumps, bruises, odd pains. One of my favorite is “The Miyagi Treatment”; I actually call it that, so it sounds important and even medical. I don’t need to tell some of you exactly what it is—you remember the movie. But for any of you who never saw “The Karate Kid”…"
- April Russo (app103)
from Bookmarklet
Shoot a pumpkin. Thursday 4 pm at Patorinos pumpkin farm which is where I shot this video using the new 12mail iPhone app. Bring - http://12seconds.tv/channel...
Benjamin: The juices in Belize are amazing. They make fresh juices at road stands, and fill used 1 liter Sprite/Coke bottles. Water is amazing. Sharks and rays swam through our legs. So used to tourists, you can touch them. Budget place for water stuff (as is the Red Sea - around Egypt & Sinai Peninsula). Egypt was 10 Euro for an 8-hr boat ride (including lunch & snorkel gear). Forget how much Belize was...
- Mitchell Tsai
I had such a GREAT time in Belize a few years back! What a great trip. Have a most excellent time Benjamin! Be sure to check out "Dready's" on Ambergris Caye and stay away from the kids who feed chickens to 25' crocs! :D
- Brian Daniel Eisenberg
Love the of the Blue hole, my home country Belize
- jamar78
Joel: What are your suggestions for Benjamin?
- Mitchell Tsai
We are only going to be there for 1 day (part of a cruise)
- Benjamin Golub
I would definitely visit Altun-Ha, a Mayan Ruin.
- jamar78
Joel: How does Altun-Ha compare to Caracol? I went to Caracol a few years ago. Met a guy from Houston who grew up there and never knew it was a Maya ruin until it appeared on the news ~5-8 yrs ago - "Hey, that's my hometown."
- Mitchell Tsai
I grew up in Belize City, I prefer Altun-ha
- jamar78
Thanks Joel! I'll check out Altun-ha next time I'm in Belize also. Have you visited Tikal or any of the Mayan sites in Guatemala? I was thinking about visiting Tikal last visit, but did the closer Caracol instead. When I visited Caracol, it had only been excavated for 2-3 years, so it was new..
- Mitchell Tsai
Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to do so. Have you ever been to the Belize Zoo?
- jamar78
I am having trouble watching the show, server must be getting hammered.
- Jordan Patterson
You can subscribe it via itunes too Jordan http://bit.ly/iq9rA Thanks for posting Paul. This is a great series on Services. So useful.
- Mac64
I've tried installing some services from macosxautomation.com but I can't seem to find the website popup action anywhere in automator. :(
- Paul Grav
I tried looking for the "website popup" automator function and could not find it. This could be great but first I need to find the function.
- Steve Sill
It took me a while to find it too. Its bundled with the Mobile Me workflows in the Internet portion of the downloads page. That site is just awful to navigate. Here's the link tho http://www.macosxautomation.com/service...
- Mac64
Thanks Mac64, thought I was going crazy trying to find it
- Simon Tracey
I had a good deal of trouble getting the Website Popup action to install on my MacBook. For some reason, unbeknown to me, both /Library/Automator and /Library/Services were owned by _unknown. I changed the ownership of those 2 folders over to my user account and attempted to re-install the Internet Services package. Finally, I was able to use the Website Popup action in automator.
- Paul Grav
Until Microsoft releases a service pack that lets you upgrade 32-bit XP to 64-bit XP, or provides an actual upgrade path to Vista or Windows 7 that isn't just backing up your files, wiping your hard drive, installing, and restoring your files, I don't want to hear another word about Snow Leopard being nothing more than a service pack.
Jemm, the majority of arguments for Snow Leopard being a service pack are coming from Windows people. Linux people don't seem to care one way or the other.
- Akiva Moskovitz
@Akiva: Could be... Pointless argument, anyway (no matter who started it). Too tired to follow those Win7 vs. SL -wars as they all are the same.
- Jemm
Of course not, but I've been reading a lot of posts and tweets about preordering and not enough about what the upgrade actually does
- Rodfather
I grabbed SL for the 7gb of space back (always handy when dealing with video), improved multithreading (good for video production) and exchange support (which turns out to be 2007 only, no effort to broach 2003 at all).
- alphaxion
Which is why you should always have your documents and important files on a separate partition from the OS. Works on Win and Linux.
- Kevin L
and yet, the steps you just described (back up files - wipe hdd - install - restore files) was exactly my experience on the "upgrade" to SL...*shrug* I figure the same experience will be had on my PC Win 7 experience, I'm used to it
- Kamala Whitaker
Rodfather, there's a ton of information out there on Snow Leopard. You'd have to go out of your way to have not learned something about it. On the other hand, it's $29 (and, in some cases, $9). Even if you're not 100% certain what benefits you may get out of it, it certainly won't hurt, either. Especially at that price.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I'd like to see how many people know what Snow Leopard provides vs. what Windows 7 provides. Well, other than Windows 7 'isn't Vista'. Apparently, that's the only selling point some people need.
- Akiva Moskovitz
I know that keeping your home directory on a separate partition works well in Linux and OS X because that's actually where system preferences get stored, but does this work in Windows, since a reformat will blow away the registry?
- Victor Ganata
I upgraded to SL in place (And on a PPC machine, I've gone from Panther to Tiger to Leopard without reformatting.) It's way more convenient than doing a clean install.
- Victor Ganata
With the free Easy Transfer -wizard (dl or comes with Vista/7) it's easy to store and restore all the custom settings if one wants to do a clean upgrade. I don't mind setting preferences manually after upgrade and some programs (like Visual Studio) allow exporting them.
- Jemm
@victor your "home directory" in windows is the folder with your username in docs and settings (or user in the post XP world). Simply copying that across to your new machine will keep all your old settings.. the problem only becomes the apps you've installed onto the new system. It's how roaming profiles has worked since win2k - it stores a copy on the network that is synced to and from your system on log on/log off.
- alphaxion
Typically a clean install is the best option. MS has had such issues in the past for leaving old crap files behind while upgrade, I would not warranty a machine that has gone through the upgrade process for longer then a year before you start to have issues with it.
- CW™
My experience with upgrades in windows points the dirty finger at either the registry getting wiped by the windows installer or by crappy 3rd party software that has been badly developed. I've always viewed upgrading in windows as an adventure in time wasting.
- alphaxion
I've been fine with in-place upgrades on both Linux and OS X. In Windows a clean install might well be necessary, but in other OSes, it feels like voodoo superstition. Of course, this is not to say that I've never had to reformat and reinstall, but usually it's because I did something that broke the system in an irrevocable fashion. (Like rm -rf * in the wrong directory)
- Victor Ganata
@alphaxion profiles have worked that way since at least NT 3.51 (may 1995). roaming profiles are something entirely different
- mjc
@victor if you only install Linux apps provided by your Linux distro, it can be fine. It's rather easy to get into a situation where RPM-based distros crap themselves, and only moderately more difficult to get into situations where dpkg-based distros do the same thing.
- mjc
I guess most average users just get a new OS when buying a new computer or let someone else do it. A geek that upgrades his/hers OS should be able enough to do either upgrade or clean install, whichever he/she prefers.
- Jemm
I detest having to reset all my preferences. So in Windows, as long as you backup your home directory, your app settings will transfer?
- Victor Ganata
on Linux I have only had one instance of issue of upgrading to another version of the OS and that is with custom Distro's based off of a larger based Distro. EasyPeasy is a custom netbook build from a UBUNTU 8 distro. Ubuntu 9 is out and I did a upgrade to it from the EasyPeasy and of course if fouled things up. But other then that, the Linux OS is built in such a great way that upgrades have been a non-worry for me.
- CW™
from IM
Jemm, it still seems like a lot more work than just doing an in-place upgrade, but I guess I'm lazy like that :) (Although, yes, I did do a backup anyway.)
- Victor Ganata
@mjc I was giving an example how the transport of one profile to another system is used within the windows world, didn't think my comment failed to get that across.
- alphaxion
A man was being tailgated by a stressed-out woman on a busy boulevard. Suddenly, the light turned yellow just in front of him. He did the right thing, stopping at the crosswalk, even though he could have beaten the red light by accelerating through the intersection. ...
... The tailgating woman was furious and honked her horn, screaming in frustration, as she missed her chance to get through the intersection, dropping her cell phone and makeup. ...
- Ladybug Heather
... As she was still in mid-rant, she heard a tap on her window and looked up into the face of a very serious police officer. The officer ordered her to exit her car with her hands up. ...
- Ladybug Heather
... He took her to the police station where she was searched, fingerprinted, photographed, and placed in a holding cell. After a couple of hours, a policeman approached the cell and opened the door. She was escorted back to the booking desk, where the arresting officer was waiting with her personal effects. ...
- Ladybug Heather
... He said, "I'm very sorry for this mistake. You see, I pulled up behind your car while you were blowing your horn, flipping off the guy in front of you, and cussing a blue streak at him. ...
- Ladybug Heather
... "I noticed the 'What Would Jesus Do' bumper sticker, the 'Choose Life' license plate holder, the 'Follow Me to Sunday-School' bumper sticker, and the chrome-plated Christian fish emblem on the trunk. ...
- Ladybug Heather
... "Naturally...I assumed you had stolen the car."
- Ladybug Heather
I know, bear! I get so annoyed by these drivers, to the point where I just want to shake them and shout, "Do you KNOW what you're doing to every other Christian in the WORLD when you behave this way?!?" Le sigh.
- Ladybug Heather
that's awesome...but i did have to laugh out loud when the host claimed the debate between twitter and facebook is "an age old question"...um, yeah, i tend to side with aristotle over plato on that one...
- Trent Olson
1UP for saying "meatspace" I wonder if the general public knows what that means :p
- Zulema ◕ ◡ ◕
The three of you did very well, and I think that what you said was accessible enough so that a non-tech audience could get it also. I forget which one of you said that 40% of ALL conversation is babble; good line...
- John E. Bredehoft
That woman just cannot remember the name Tad can she? I think she got your name right only once. Anyway hope you're having fun out there. <aside> You'd think she'd have problems with your LAST name not your first.
- Berial