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Troy Benohanian › Likes
Gillmor Gang 12.22.09 - http://www.youtube.com/watch... (via http://friendfeed.com/stevegi...)
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Troy Benohanian and Cliff Gerrish liked this
Not a very exciting episode. most of the panelists were quiet and withdrawn and lacked passion
- Mark
I'm liking this not very exciting feel
- Steve Gillmor
I thought it was a great episode. Doesn't have to be drama to be good. Nook arrived this AM, we likey. Gave Mom a Kindle so Stepdad can self-publish his short stories to Amazon, have at least a couple of subscribers. :)
- Karoli
This time, it's different: Windows Server 2008 R2 in-depth - http://arstechnica.com/microso...
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Troy Benohanian liked this
Amazon Web Services Blog: The Economics of AWS - http://aws.typepad.com/aws...
Sidharth Shah, Rajiv Shivane, Tzury Bar Yochay and Troy Benohanian liked this
"Customers have had to do a lot of leg work to compare the costs of a flexible solution based on cloud computing to a more traditional static model... To that end, today we released a pair of white papers and an Amazon EC2 Cost Comparison Calculator spreadsheet as part of our brand new AWS Economics Center."
- Bret Taylor
from Bookmarklet
I wish they had a 'personal edition' of s3. The cost of a TB on S3 is ridiculous
- Phill Price
from iPhone
Gillmor Gang 11.25.09 - http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/2009...
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Troy Benohanian and Susan Beebe liked this
The Gillmor Gang — Robert Scoble, Jason Calacanis, Michael Vizard, and Kevin Marks — track Google Chrome OS, Silverlight, and salesforce Chatter. Recorded live Wednesday, November 25, 2009.
- Steve Gillmor
I don't think I heard an answer to your question about why Muglia winced at the suggestion that Silverlight become an umbrella term. Was there one, and why do you think he reacted that way? Only willing to embrace the new regime to a point?
- Amyloo
Tornado vs Rails: http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Graham Sergeant, Jim Huller, Fabrizio and 119 other people liked this
;)
- Paul Buchheit
awesome
- Ayman Shurafa
wow. insane!
- Caio
Looks like Tornado won!
- Private Sanjeev
love the metaphor :)
- andy brudtkuhl
brilliant. Alternative comment: this metaphor is a train wreck
- Ivan Kirigin
haha love it
- Rasmus Lauridsen
Smashing! Simply smashing...
- Chris Heath
Ivan +1!
- Kevin L
I couldn't take my eyes off of it. It was like watching a train wreck!
- Chuck Adams
so sad story :( trains are so unprotected..
- я был в лесу
physics is a beaatch for sure
- Robert Higgins
That video never gets old. Never underestimate the power of nature.
- Jim Goldstein
This highlights the need for additional Superman III technology investment.
- Jay Cuthrell
wow!! :)
- Oğuz Serdar
:)
- Micah Wittman
\m/
- 'Like' robot (frɐnc)
AMAZING footage. Dayum!
- Josh Haley
That was worth watching even ignoring the obviously cute pun.
- Greg Grothaus
Paul is probably just joking - but if he is serious about this pun i would assume it's for good reason.
- Chris Heath
and i bet paul just couldn't wait for them to open up tornado when he first saw this video
- Chris Heath
amazing
- boro
should hitler be saying something about it now :)
- vinod
MOther Nature indeed
- Mark Mason
WOW! That reminds me...I still have some video from this summer's train trip to post. Nothing this exciting happened, I'm afraid.
- Eph Zero
YEAH BABY
- Çağatay " SKYLAB " Şama
Just as I expected, it's all twisted.
- Dustin Sallings
very punny.
- winterismute
Apple's Mistake - http://paulgraham.com/apple...
Hasan Ozgan, Adriano, goodmachine and 32 other people liked this
"I don't think Apple realizes how badly the App Store approval process is broken. Or rather, I don't think they realize how much it matters that it's broken. The way Apple runs the App Store has harmed their reputation with programmers more than anything else they've ever done. Their reputation with programmers used to be great. It used to be the most common complaint you heard about Apple was that their fans admired them too uncritically. The App Store has changed that. Now a lot of programmers have started to see Apple as evil. How much of the goodwill Apple once had with programmers have they lost over the App Store? A third? Half? And that's just so far. The App Store is an ongoing karma leak."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
Even as an end-user, Apple's approval process for the App Store seems heavy-handed and censorious. It makes me like them less.
- Spidra Webster
From the OP: "with fussy tastes and a rigidly enforced house style." - fussy tastes is spot on, but rigidly enforced house style doesn't quite describe the most irritating thing: unpredictable criteria/enforcement.
- Micah Wittman
Paul B, what's you take on the other Paul's statement: "I think the reason Google embraced "Don't be evil" so eagerly was not so much to impress the outside world as to innoculate themselves against arrogance." ?
- Micah Wittman
Is the App Store approval process cumbersome? Sure. Is it completely and totally broken, no. There are over 100,000 applications, LOTS of developers, and because one or two vocal development groups "pull out" it doesn't mean it's doomed. Apple has not "harmed their reputation with developers", I AM an iPhone Application Developer, I've actually SUBMITTED an application (have you Paul?),...
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- Rob Pickering
Rob, Paul Graham, who wrote the essay (not to be confused with Paul Buchheit, who shared it here), advises startups that publish iPhone apps, notably Dropbox.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Tough challenge, dealing with the "community," while enforcing strict standards. I'm glad they're holding the app-dev's to a high standard. One big security hole due to a lax in rules just to be "nice" and iPhone AND Apple's rep turns to applesauce. Seems they need about twice the personnel to get through all the work. Again, tough challenge.
- John Coonen
"Programmers don't use launch-fast-and-iterate out of laziness. They use it because it yields the best results." -- well said
- ǝuǝƃnǝ
Security holes aren't due to lax rules. It takes a broken sandbox. You don't need app approvals to maintain a sandbox.
- Peng-Toh
It's analogous to Yahoo trying to maintain curated links versus Google's pagerank. It doesn't really work past a certain level of scale.
- Todd Hoff
Graham describes Android as an orphan; I don't think that's the case. It's being actively updated, and evangelized for use in all kinds of devices (not just phones). If anything, I think Google considers Android more strategic than they let on.
- Kevin Shaum
Apple grabs 17% of smartphone market in latest quarter - http://arstechnica.com/apple...
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Troy Benohanian liked this
Google Executive Says Companies Can Get Rid of Microsoft Office...Next Year - http://www.readwriteweb.com/enterpr...
Troy Benohanian liked this
Rough Type: Nicholas Carr's Blog: Does my tweet look fat? - http://www.roughtype.com/archive...
Jim Connolly and Troy Benohanian liked this
Rackspace Says it Is Closing the Gap with Amazon - http://www.readwriteweb.com/enterpr...
Troy Benohanian liked this
Introduction to Tart — a general-purpose, strongly-typed programming language - http://viridia.org/project...
Troy Benohanian, Tracy, Micah Wittman and 26 other people liked this
I hadn't heard of this one before -- apparently its from Python people. Soundss nice! "Some of these motivations are: * The desire for a language that would combine the simplicity and readability of Python with the power of static typing and template metapgrogramming, as well as modern language features such as closures and generic functions. * The desire for a compiler that compiles to highly efficient native code instead of a VM. * The desire for a language which would fulfill the same role as C++, but designed from scratch with the benefit of hindsight. * The desire for a language which would fulfill the same role as Java, but more concise and requiring less verbose boilerplate."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
Is there a provision for types that are dynamically bound, or is it all strongly-typed?
- Cristo
I wonder if the the nullable? feature is just as much as PITA as const in C++.
- Gary Burd
oh i was thinking how could i have liked it when i haven't even read it in recent times, good work http://friendfeed.com/jimminy
- ffcode
oh, R is going to like this, he's all for strongly typed languages. has it got aspects?
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Gary: My experience with C# makes me suspect that explicitly nullable references are going to be the occasional annoyance, not the plague of C++'s const.
- Gabe
what is going on? a new language every week! there would not be enough computers in this world to run all these languages
- Tzury Bar Yochay
Still reinventing the wheel, are we? This really puzzles me to no end..why do they think they need to create more 3rd generation programming languages like Google Go & now this "Tart" thing, when what we really need are everyday useful 4GL and 5GL languages/systems/frameworks that would really move us forward. If we keep things going the way these guys are, THE MACHINES WIN..
- Alex Schleber
Alex: What defines a 4GL or 5GL such that languages like Go, Tart, and C# don't qualify?
- Gabe
Gabe, if your average C programmer isn't confused by them, they don't qualify as 4GL or 5GL languages. ;)
- Cristo
Looks interesting. I tried to find this "Talin" person and found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... As fascinating as proteins are, I don't think an individual one is up to creating a programming language. :-)
- Ruchira S. Datta
Ruchira, you might find these links helpful: http://viridia.org/ and http://www.sylvantech.com/talin...
- Michael R. Bernstein
Zenoss and Plixer Team Up to Offer Free NetFlow Monitoring - http://www.zenoss.com/r...
Troy Benohanian liked this
Google Gives You More Storage for Less, but Still No GDrive - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Troy Benohanian liked this
Bing Teams up With Wolfram Alpha - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Troy Benohanian liked this
Google Makes World Bank Data More Discoverable: Takes a Swipe at Wolfram Alpha and Bing - http://www.readwriteweb.com/archive...
Troy Benohanian liked this
"The Internet is not about technology; it's about communication. The Internet connects people who have shared interests, ideas and needs, regardless of geography." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
pastas9, sam, Troy Benohanian and 102 other people liked this
Absolutely.
- Mark Krynsky
*salute*
- Mo Kargas
I like it, but I think it doesn't go far enough. The telephone allows you to communicate. But when you hang up the phone the call is gone. The internet has persistent objects that can be manipulated, so it is also about cooperation and collaboration.
- Neil Kandalgaonkar
Technology sure makes that communication much easier, though. Long live Friendfeed!
- Josh Haley
from iPhone
FWD: @scobleizer
- directeur
I always thought the Internet was for porn. At least that's what I learned one year at SXSW.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, you still owe us (me and Joge) $5000, btw ;-)
- directeur
I think porn falls under the connecting people with shared interests and needs. ;-)
- Brian Sullivan
Hmmm -- I think saying the" internet is not about technology, it's about the communication" is like saying driving is not about the car, it's about the journey. I like John Dupuis' way of putting it -- the communication part was an emergent property -- Michael Neilson has interesting things to say on this topic, too, but I've gotta dash so I'll link later.
- Mickey Schafer
YAY, I love the internet. Couldn't agree more. GLOBAL unfettered communication amongst all peoples, socio-economic class, philosophy, etc. is what it's all about; whereas, the technology is there to support the communication layer. THAT is very important in the DESIGN of Information Systems.
- Susan Beebe
The following (wild) question just dawned on me: If in 1440—the approx. year of Gutenberg's press—a global electronic network had magically emerged instead, A) What purpose would the power structure at the time deem for it, and B) How would it actually be used within the first few decades? Hundred years?
- Micah Wittman
Micah, The Gideon Society would have saved a lot of money on printing costs and no need for this ====> http://www.youtube.com/watch...
- Eric Logan
Eric, :) yes, that youtube vid is a classic.
- Micah Wittman
Any relation to Bret? :)
- April Buchheit
Neil: different communication formats have varying values for similar properties, such as bandwidth, delay, and rate of decay
- Mike Chelen
Neil: Good point about persistence, except that Twitter has objects called tweets that last only about 7 days ;)
- Alex Schleber
Alex: one compensating strength is that posts are publicly web accessible, allowing them to be independently mirrored
- Mike Chelen
High communication: words. Medium communication: pictures. Low communication: grunt, poke.
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Internet = TV + Radio + Books + Newspapers + Magazines + Telephone + Soapbox + [add your medium] = Media melting pot
- Ciro
Actually, the Internet may be about the incarnation of cosmic consciousness, and may not be primarily about anthropocentric intraspecies communication. I only half jest -- sometimes species are only vehicles that don't necessarily understand their function in the big picture, or what they are birthing. With the Internet, one senses something trying to pull itself together that is bigger than human.
- Sean McBride
let's say it again: it's. com. mu. ni. ca. tion. :)
- Alberto D'Ottavi
+1 Mike Chelen; to Ciro, Alberto -- conflating function, social value, and technology diminishes the ability to understand what the "internet" is/does/could be, etc. The internet is not portable; certain technological devices are. The infrastructure that supports portability is inconsistent; radio rarely is. It's very difficult to "listen" to books using the internet; the internet is...
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- Mickey Schafer
I agree with you 100% - The connections made here can't be made anywhere else! The transparency and accessibility of people, good people, is prevalent!
- Angels In Action
I didn't read all the comments above, but I don't think it's just communication. It's also about knowledge, data, availability of knowledge and data. creativity, etc... I'm afraid with this situation of lots of social networks people are a bit too preoccupied by the community-factor. Internet is more than that. Please don't forget that.
- Ton Zijp
To Mickey: 1. "The Internet is not portable; certain technological devices are." splitting hair...Give me the Internet without the "technological devices" as you call them. 2. "The infrastructure is inconsistent..." Video is video, audio is audio...otherwise the TV is also inconsistent and so is the radio and books, I digress on this one. 3. " And I believe it is actually important to...
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- Ciro
Ton, I agree! Ciro -- As someone who teaches undergrads who have to use technology and the net, I can't afford to be blithe about "they can if they want to". One of my interests is the relationship between discourse and behavior, so for kicks, I conducted a survey last year to get a feel for how students related to tech developmentally. One overwhelming result was that sometime during...
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- Mickey Schafer
I don't agree. Technology IS COMMUNICATION. Please consider W.J. Ong's Orality & Literacy or Pierre Levy's essays. Our literacy is still evolving and that's possible just because we can write (and communicate) with different technologies. So... Nice quote indeed, but wrong.
- Matteo Balocco
Bruce: language, art, and gestures are all forms of communication technology, each of which can be used to greater or lesser effect
- Mike Chelen
Internet is technology, great and simple technologies which work well and so you can focus on communications stuff
- Luca Zappa
Mickey: internet access may not yet be a universal commodity like paper, yet this property can shift rapidly in degree, redefining its qualities. regarding user expectations, to some extent this may be addressed through improved software design, for example google docs automatically save every few seconds
- Mike Chelen
Matteo: is that different from saying that all communication is a form of technology?
- Mike Chelen
Mike, I'm afraid it is different. While communication is a natural competence shared by all the living beings, technology is just an optional layer for just a niche of them. So we may say that all the technologies carry some informations (and we must consider them communication) but certainly not all communication is a form of technology.
- Matteo Balocco
However we agree that this is nothing more than an academic discussion. The quote by Taylor is still really good for some slideshows. :)
- Matteo Balocco
Mickey, thanks for your feedback. I don't disagree with any of your latest observations regarding the importance of keeping machine (medium) and internet (content) separate and the dangers of not doing so...My point was simply directed at the idea that in the context of pure content utilization, the hardware such as the cables (or airwaves) as transport media and content presentation...
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- Ciro
Google hopes to remake programming with Go - http://news.cnet.com/8301-10...
Thomas Amberg, Barry Mitchelson, Marwan Osman and 103 other people liked this
This could be very good! "Google software luminaries such as Unix co-creator Ken Thompson believe that they can help boost both computing power and programmers' abilities with an experimental programming language project called Go. And on Tuesday, they're taking the veil of secrecy off Go, releasing what they've built so far and inviting others to join the newly open-source project."
- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
What do you think, Paul? I know it's early, but Python latched on at Google... Think this is a response? And just on a lark, do you think Go may be headed for the browser at some point (to replace javascript)? Many of us have wondered if Chrome will take a stab at reinventing/reworking the web stack. Go feels more like a back-end tool, but wondering what came to your mind when you saw this...
- Christopher Galtenberg
Christopher, Python is nice, but we need a new system language, something high-performance to replace C/C++. This may be it.
- Paul Buchheit
Yeah, I was remembering your thoughts from here, Paul: http://friendfeed.com/paul.... Wonder how the ooc folks feel today...
- Christopher Galtenberg
My first reaction was oh yay, another C like language with brackets to make it acceptable. Having Rob Pike and Thompson on the team is impressive but makes me think of a plan9 resurrection. Using CSPs though is pretty cool and it looks like it supports mobile tasks.
- Todd Hoff
"Specifically, Go uses a technology dating back to the 1960s called CSP, or communicating sequential processes, that handles interactions among a set of cooperating programs, Pike said. The technology made an appearance in programming languages such as Occom and Erlang, but it generally hasn't been applied in systems programming."
- Paul Buchheit
If Google uses this for internal projects, that will give it a big advantage over something like plan9 in terms of being practical (not to mention the fact that it's free software, which plan9 was not, and a programming language, not an OS).
- Paul Buchheit
I am very excited about this, it's not genius or rocket science but it maybe the language to put alongisde C/C++ for real. I thought it was going to be D, maybe this is it
- Lawrence Oluyede
D seems too fragmented to be usable. All my hopes are on Go now :)
- Paul Buchheit
And note that the language is designed to be IDE independent.
- Piaw Na
Plan9 was a set of composable tools. In this case Google is providing the OS and the tools.
- Todd Hoff
Go is NOT an OS!
- Piaw Na
Where's the link to it?
- Gabe
Please ; at the end of lines... (I hate languages without ; for some psychological reasons)
- Ozgur Demir
I am no fan of language features designed to ease parsing but i suppose that's important for a system language? But it's hardly a user (i.e. programmer)-centric design. I think they should have drawn more from Scala (for concurrency model) and Io (for a beautiful syntax) instead of the messy, old languages they chose. Luckily, it's not designed for my needs so i'll never have to worry about it.
- ·[▪_▪]·
@ozgurdemir I agree. Either require them or don't. Don't make them optional in some cases. It confuses what programmers generally expect of a programming language: consistency.
- ·[▪_▪]·
Just checked and hated it. Sorry guys, it's not about the rest of the language.. it's just the ;'s.
- Ozgur Demir
while checking it, I noticed how much I love C / Java syntax and how lame to trying to change it just for to make a new product different.
- Ozgur Demir
@Paul you should know better than to confuse a language with its implementation! The people working on this all hail from the C/Java lineage and I don't know...may be fast but generally C is a hassle and Java is too dumbed-down. Trying to fix the mistakes they made in the past. Wonderful...
- Rudolf Olah
For god's sake, who cares what the syntax looks like? What matters is whether it solves useful problems or not. It's designed to clean up a lot of the problems stemming from the legacy of C[++], compile fast, execute fast, be appropriate for systems programming, and have good primitives for concurrency. Those are good goals in my book, and they fill a much-needed niche.
- Joel Webber
I do care.
- Ozgur Demir
I thought it was kinda weird the way the video highlighted how fast it compiles. Compilation speed is great, and the vid was impressive, but I've never seen a language launch where that was highlighted so much. "Look, it compiles fast!!!!!! Oh, BTW, we are trying to solve concurrency".
- Nick Lothian
@Ozgur: Sure, but as long as the syntax isn't broken in some way, or ambiguous (VB6 comes to mind), it's surely much less important than what the language is capable of (compile speed, execution speed, what can be expressed, etc). Syntax seems like a distant third- or fourth-most important aspect to me.
- Joel Webber
@Nick: That kind of struck me as well when they first started talking about it. But when you consider that your main alternative is C++, and that compile times can get absolutely brutal (try compileing WebKit sometime -- it takes hours), it makes a bit more sense.
- Joel Webber
@Joel. yea, I can't say you're wrong and I am right.. these are all preferences.. for me, syntax is an important aspect in terms of code readability that's why I care since it becomes a real pain in the ass on a midsize or bigger project.
- Ozgur Demir
This thread is degenerating into rubbish. You know who you are - please stop.
- Christopher Galtenberg
from iPhone
@Joel yeah, I guess. But compiling something like that should take hours! Back when men were men and compiling a kernel on my 386 was a major undertaking success was so much more satisfying! Who are these young'uns Thompson & Pike and what do they know anyway!
- Nick Lothian
Yeah, really! Real programmers had to swap disks multiple times to run a Pascal compiler on Hello World for the C64 :)
- Joel Webber
Yeah, compilation speed doesn't mean too much. Would be nicer if they focused on the *thinking* part with regards to concurrency.
- Rudolf Olah
Compilation speeds mean a lot when you're dealing with the google programming model. This is a company that invented code search for internal use. (See as an example: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7613693...)
- Piaw Na
Luckily it isn't named "goo".
- Peng-Toh
@Piaw - nice example. I only skipped through it, but I can't see why something like that makes compilation speed critical. It seems similar in concept to static analysis - more speed is good, but the lack of speed doesn't break the model.
- Nick Lothian
@nlothian: static analysis and compilation both include parsing. efficient parsing of C++ is rather hard to achieve, due to messy nature of multiply included files and macro substitutions. if code analysis takes hours (ok, half-hours), it ceases to be useful.
- 9000
Lack of speed totally breaks the model. When you can get your analysis and search tools to respond in sub 500ms, the model for coding completely changes. You no longer remember where files are --- you just search for them and expect the search tool to remember for you. This enables massive code sharing, and allows small teams to be extremely effective, since they can now leverage other teams' work.
- Piaw Na
Must be Google..
- ★ Soner Gönül
Why compile time matters: http://xkcd.com/303/
- Robert Felty
Use an IDE for iterative development of the components you are working on, make modules independent through interfaces, do a nightly build so the bulk of build products like libraries etc are available, then these compile issues go away. Justifying based on compile times is so 1990s.
- Todd Hoff
Ah, but how exactly does your IDE allow you to do iterative development quickly? You have to be able to compile individual modules (whatever form they take) quickly enough to make this feasible. If you take C[++] as the de facto systems language, it fails badly on this front, because the only way to share interfaces among modules is via the preprocessor, and precompiled headers only get...
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- Joel Webber
Poor Frank McCabe and his ten year old "go!" language: http://www.reddit.com/r...
- Daniel J. Pritchett
C++ allows for abstract base classes. No implementation. Compose systems this way and you minimize recompilation. And I'm assuming the initial subsystems are developed in a mocked unit tested environment and then within a very narrow scope, so interface changes are minimized until the system test phase is reached. The compilation argument would make sense if they were talking about a...
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- Todd Hoff
Sure, but you still have to define the abstract base class (interface) in a header file somewhere, and individual .cc files end up depending upon a large number of these in practice, so that any change to one of them tends to force you to recompile a lot of object files. As you say, there are some ways of reducing this effect, but in practice large C++ systems end up taking forever and a day to compile (try compiling WebKit; a lot of Google code has this problem as well).
- Joel Webber
C++ templates are also implemented badly, which makes compilation slow.
- Piaw Na
Only if you don't compose your system well Joel. I've worked very comfortably on systems that took 12 hours to compile across a cluster of 32 build machines. I'm not saying I don't want a language where you don't have to go through all these hoops, but to say it's inevitable in C++ is not so, you just have to beat make into submission and not create a big ball of mud, which is good practice anyway.
- Todd Hoff
@Todd: Fair enough -- I'm definitely not saying you're wrong, and I have also worked on fairly large C++ code bases (mostly games) without everything going to hell in a handbasket. But you have to admit that it would be nice if you didn't have to wait many hours (or use a Google-sized build cluster) for compiling your code :)
- Joel Webber
I've worked "comfortably" on projects where the full rebuild time was a few hours on my local machine, but I can't say that I was ever working optimally. Even in the instant-on environment I'm working in now, there are occasionally changes that I have to wait a full build/deploy cycle to test and it almost always takes me 2-5x as long to solve problems in that case. You can multitask while you wait, but it's just not the same (IMHO, of course).
- Matt Mastracci
I think 12 hours to compile across 32 build machines is unacceptable. I want instant compilation. You know, the kind that Turbo Pascal used to have.
- Piaw Na
I think that there's a dramatic improvement in developer productivity when the compile-link-run cycle time goes from a minute to a second.
- Gary Burd
Piaw before you say what is or is not unacceptable you might want to take the trouble to know what problem is being solved. Turbo Pascal to a real deployed product like a unicycle is to the 5th fleet.
- Todd Hoff
But any, good, modern IDE compiles incrementally and continuously so there's no noticeable compilation step. Compilation shouldn't be a _highlight_ of a new language. It's nice and the ease of building developer tools is a benefit to uptake but, in the end, the language has to be something developers _want_ to read and write since we have to look at it so much. Syntax matters. It's why so much sugar is added to languages.
- ·[▪_▪]·
As stated before, modern IDEs don't scale to google-sized code bases. Go is not designed for your tiny projects that fit in main memory. It's designed for large scale development projects.
- Piaw Na
@piaw You seem to assume that Google doesn't organize it's code. Any good project, regardless of size, especially for large projects, should be modularized. If Google has to load every piece of code into the IDE, they have more serious problems than Go will resolve. Trust me, I work on a project with tens of millions of lines of Java code and i've been responsible for analysis and...
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- ·[▪_▪]·
Well, Piaw actually did write a fair amount of the code at Google, so I'd give him a little more credit :) I know plenty of people at Google who *do* use Eclipse/IntelliJ on Google's code base (myself included), but you do have to break it into manageable chunks to make it work. That's sometimes easier said than done, to be fair.
- Joel Webber
When I worked for a large company in the internet advertising business, I found that dependency creep was a constant problem. I spent more time than I would have liked trying to get fast compilation time in Eclipse/IntelliJ. I welcome a tool that helps with this problem.
- Gary Burd
"I have already used the name for *MY* programming language" http://code.google.com/p...
- Itachi
I think that time spent pruning and organizing your code and library is best instead spent working on better tools that make your development environment super fast and capable of scaling. That's the way Go was designed.
- Piaw Na
If you want fast turnaround, eliminate compiles all together. There's no reason why a language can't support a double or triple hybrid model. Look at a language like Factor, image based like Smalltalk, you write a function, and can patch it into the live running app instantaneously, where it will run interpreted in combination with compiled code, until the runtime gets around to...
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- Ray Cromwell
I noticed that Go has an interpreter work-in-progress living in its source. The start of an instant-run mode?
- Matt Mastracci
Smalltalk had a massive sharing problem --- you couldn't ever replicate what was in your Smalltalk image on someone else's machine. Eliminating compiles would be nice, but again, if you're solving problems at a massive scale, interpretation would be an order of magnitude loss in execution speed that you can't afford. That said, a Go interpreter would not be out of the question, or even hard to build.
- Piaw Na
@Piaw - was just reading "Coders at Work" this week and Ingalls (http://www.codersatwork.com/dan-ing...) was saying the exact opposite. He said he pauses his Mac machine and sends his Smalltalk system state over to a Windows developer and they start right up, debug, and fix.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
The point is not to have the production version run in interpretation, the point is to increase developer productivity by allowing a fast edit-run cycle, production builds can take as long as necessary. When you're in development mode, you often don't need full execution speed, you are checking for correctness. Take GWT for example. You can make changes to Java source, hit reload, and...
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- Ray Cromwell
What does production mean? An experiment that processes a large number of records so you can decide how to proceed with your line of research is hardly production, but it nevertheless has to execute fast over large amounts of data. You might think that it doesn't matter how quickly that runs, but the difference between 10 minutes and 100 minutes is huge in terms of productivity.
- Piaw Na
Yes, if you copied the entire image over, you could replicate a smalltalk VM. The problem is, then you have to live with the other guy's image and customizations. Smalltalk is great, but it really was designed as a single-user environment.
- Piaw Na
It depends how often you are running experiments over huge datasets like that. In the case where I needed some experimental data to proceed, yes, if after every edit, you had such an experiment, then maybe programming in a neutered language would be worth it, but I'd say that for the majority of developers, this is not the case, so being able to run unoptimized builds/interpretation...
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- Ray Cromwell
No, it is not for everyone. It's very much for large scale datasets that are encountered somewhat frequently on the WWW.
- Piaw Na
Bob Muglia on Azure, Silverlight, and Realtime - http://www.techcrunchit.com/2009...
Troy Benohanian, Roberto Bonini and Susan Beebe liked this
Good read. Impressed he was so frank.
- Amyloo
YouTube says the video is private?
- Amyloo
video is now public
- Steve Gillmor
Go: new open source programming language from Google - http://arstechnica.com/open-so...
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Troy Benohanian liked this
Gillmor Gang 11.05.09 - http://gillmorgang.techcrunch.com/2009...
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Troy Benohanian and Aron Michalski liked this
The Gillmor Gang — Robert Scoble, Kevin Marks, Phil Windley, Chris Messina, and Craig Burton — convene Identity Gang '09. Recorded live Thursday, November 5, 2009. Full transcript coming soon, courtesy of Simulscribe.
- Steve Gillmor
Gillmor Gang 11.05.09 - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Karoli, Troy Benohanian, Mindaugas Dagys and 6 other people liked this
Gillmor Gang 10.29.09 - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Micah Wittman, James Stratford, Raphael, Raphael and 7 other people liked this
Why the focus on just e-mail (out of curiosity)? Why not the phone number, and what about the 24 hour storage limit for data? Any word on those opening up more with users' permission?
- Jesse Stay
I'm still watching, btw - maybe it gets answered later
- Jesse Stay
I'm also very curious of their plans to open up the search API - that would be much more interesting than their current roadmap.
- Jesse Stay
In regards to permalinks Facebook does have permalinks on fan Pages
- Jesse Stay
Re: the newsfeed Robert should really interview someone on Facebook's newsfeed team. That would be a very interesting interview. I don't think the FriendFeed team can answer those questions.
- Jesse Stay
Re: the platform I do really want to know Facebook's plans for real-time API integration. Will they adopt PSHB or RSSCloud or a standard of their own to provide real-time updates to the stream?
- Jesse Stay
Maybe you should ask Robert to interview the realtime API integration team too. Oh wait.
- Steve Gillmor
from iPhone
:)
- Susan Beebe
Jesse: I'm not the only member of the Gillmor Gang. In fact, I'm far from its most important member. Or did you mean to post this stuff to me for other parts of building43?
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I meant it would be good for building43. But yes, it would be interesting for Gillmor Gang as well.
- Jesse Stay
we'll have stream guys on when they have something to say, which judging by the Roadmap announcements, will be sooner than later.
- Steve Gillmor
Salesforce.com and Adobe: Applications Enriching The Platfom - http://www.readwriteweb.com/enterpr...
Troy Benohanian liked this
Gillmor Gang 10.22.09 - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Aron Michalski, Troy Benohanian and Jack liked this
watching this on Virgin America to LV, works fine.
- Steve Gillmor
Whitehouse Drupal and The Open Source Security Model - http://ha.ckers.org/blog...
Troy Benohanian liked this
RT @digiphile: http://swiftapp.org mentioned by @kookster at #pubcamp: "a free, #opensource toolset for crowdsourced situational awareness" - http://twitter.com/C9COOP...
Troy Benohanian liked this
Cyber Situational Awareness: Issues and Research (Advances in Information Security) - Springer. http://www.amazon.com/dp...
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Troy Benohanian liked this
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