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U.S. immigration system needs immediate reform - http://www.thecalifornian.com/article...
"The question was asked, "Do we really need to reform our immigration laws?" The short answer, yes. Long answer, we need to remove the multitude of layers in the immigration system. We need to look at the person, their moral character. Is the person having issues with law enforcement agencies? Does this person display moral turpitude? Does the person have ties to the community?"
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
NH House deports immigration check bill - http://www.boston.com/news...
"An immigration check bill similar to Arizona's has died without debate in the House. The House, following the recommendation of the Criminal Justice and Public Safety Committee, killed the bill by a voice vote."
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
US to Pay $350K, Halt Deportations in New Haven Immigration Raid Settlement - http://latino.foxnews.com/latino...
"The U.S. Government has agreed to pay $350,000 and to halt deportation procedures against eleven men who claimed that their rights were violated during a 2007 residential immigration raid in New Haven, Ct., the plaintiff's attorneys said Tuesday."
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
Sean McBride to Sean's feed, US Politics, Mideast Politics, Middle East Discussion, Mondoweiss on Friendfeed
CNN Poll: Americans favor diplomacy against Iran – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs - http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012...
"A majority of Americans don't want the U.S. to take military action to force Iran to shut down its nuclear program, according to a new national survey. A CNN/ORC International poll released Wednesday indicates that only 17% of the public wants the U.S. to use force, with 60% saying diplomatic or economic action against Iran is the right response, and 22% saying no action should be taken at this time."
- Sean McBride
from Bookmarklet
"The survey indicates that men are slightly more willing to use military force than women, but that option is unpopular with both genders. Only 21% of men support military action against Iran; for women, that figure drops to 14%."
- Sean McBride
"This is one issue on which Republicans and Democrats agree," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "Republicans are a little more likely than Democrats to prefer military action, but a majority of Republicans, independents and Democrats say they favor economic and diplomatic efforts over a military option."
- Sean McBride
The U.S. Should Back the Free Syrian Army, and Strike a Blow Against Iran at the Same Time – Tablet Magazine - http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-...
Hama was 30 years ago this month. And now, almost a year into the current phase of Syria’s civil war and many thousands of Sunni corpses later, the Assad regime is able to count on only the Alawites, who form the most trustworthy units of the Syrian military and security apparatus, as well as the paramilitary gangs, called the shabbiha. The difference between the Syrian Army and the Free Syrian Army is that the former is much better equipped. The latter draws from a much larger segment of Syrians: More than 60 percent of the population is Sunni Arab. This explains why the uprising shows no signs of abating. The Sunni Arab community is too large for the regime to manage when it is in open rebellion throughout the country. As we’ve seen over the last 11 months, when the regime brings quiet to one city, another erupts. In the town of Zabadani, for instance, Syrian troops were compelled to withdraw because the regime cannot absorb the military casualties that would be necessary to take a...
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- Eric Logan
from Bookmarklet
Why would Americans feel motivated to waste even one more thin dime on brain-damaged neoconservative military crusades that are driven by Likud's Greater Israel agenda? How have things turned out in Iraq? Afghanistan? Pakistan? Libya? Egypt? Fool me once? Twice? Three times? Four times? Five times? Six times?
- Sean McBride
On the Mideast front, the United States and Europe should be concentrating on transforming the region into a nuclear weapons-free zone. In the larger scheme of things, 99% of our attention should be focused on domestic, not foreign affairs, and on restoring American economic health and prosperity.
- Sean McBride
Leak exposes how Heartland Institute works to undermine climate science | Environment | guardian.co.uk - http://www.guardian.co.uk/environ...
Steven Perez liked this
The inner workings of a libertarian thinktank working to discredit the established science on climate change have been exposed by a leak of confidential documents detailing its strategy and fundraising networks. [...] If authentic the documents provide an intriguing glimpse at the fundraising and political priorities of one of the most powerful and vocal groups working to discredit the established science on climate change and so block any chance of policies to reduce global warming pollution. "It's a rare glimpse behind the wall of a key climate denial organisation," Kert Davies, director of research for Greenpeace, said in a telephone interview. "It's more than just a gotcha to have these documents. It shows there is a co-ordinated effort to have an alternative reality on the climate science in order to have an impact on the policy."
- Andrew C (✓)
from Bookmarklet
Ariz. immigration bills given slim chance - http://www.upi.com/Top_New...
"Their opposition to the measures was mostly centered on the negative effect they would have on the business community in Arizona."
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
Even Critics of Safety Net Increasingly Depend on It - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2012...
☆彡Jazzy-B, John (bird whisperer), Harold and 6 other people liked this
"The government safety net was created to keep Americans from abject poverty, but the poorest households no longer receive a majority of government benefits. A secondary mission has gradually become primary: maintaining the middle class from childhood through retirement. The share of benefits flowing to the least affluent households, the bottom fifth, has declined from 54 percent in 1979 to 36 percent in 2007, according to a Congressional Budget Office analysis published last year. And as more middle-class families like the Gulbransons land in the safety net in Chisago and similar communities, anger at the government has increased alongside. Many people say they are angry because the government is wasting money and giving money to people who do not deserve it. But more than that, they say they want to reduce the role of government in their own lives. They are frustrated that they need help, feel guilty for taking it and resent the government for providing it. They say they want less help for themselves; less help in caring for relatives; less assistance when they reach old age."
- Steven Perez
from Bookmarklet
This article reminded me of the Dark Ages solution to the Black Death. Strange plague wiping out most of Europe? I've got an idea: let's kill the cats! Sure, they're the primary means of getting rid of the rats whose lice carry the plague, but those darn cats are TOOLS OF TEH DEBBIL. Only reasonable thing to do, really.
- Steven Perez
Yeah, it's like saying people wouldn't be sick if modern medicine didn't exist.
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
Heh, I think I've mentioned this before, but a while back I received a chain email from someone about how awful welfare recipients are, basically the dregs of society. The very next email from the same person was, OMG, Obama is trying to take away our social security! Revolt! I just cannot understand how people don't see the conflict.
- Michelle M
That's why I love the charts that accompany this article, which basically state "and this is why all these people are wrong".
- Steven Perez
Cognitive dissonance and of course serious likely terminal case of dumb ass. maybe don't take the money you selfidh hypoctrite prick. And yes Lindstrom Mn is just as fucked up as it seems from this article
- WarLord
The most illustrative quote in that story is the one where the guy says the EITC allows his kids to play sports and have car insurance. Because these are important priorities.
- The original Kevin
Car insurance is an important priority! Unfortunately, modern American life for many people requires a car, and it is the responsible thing to do (and legal obligation?) to have insurance.
- Andrew C (✓)
Corporations: Personhood Conferred; Citizenship Earned - http://www.forbes.com/sites...
"today’s complex world requires corporations to be more than persons. We need them to be citizens, in the broadest, most far-reaching sense of the word."
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
Alabama immigration law: Hundreds protest on Valentine’s day - http://www.politico.com/news...
"Hundreds packed the Alabama Statehouse courtyard on Tuesday to rally against the state's tough immigration law, with organizers saying they chose to send a message on Valentine's Day that lawmakers need to love and respect immigrants. People bused in from across the state to demand repeal of the law that aims to be tough on those in the country illegally. Protesters carried signs reading, "Gov. Bentley, don't you have a heart?" ''No Juan Crow" and "Una Familia, Una Alabama" while chanting in Spanish and English "no more HB56" (the bill that became the law) and "one family, one Alabama." They also delivered lollipops and Valentines to lawmakers, urging them to strike down the law."
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
U.S. media takes the lead on Iran - Salon.com - http://www.salon.com/2012...
"Many have compared the coordinated propaganda campaign now being disseminated about The Iranian Threat to that which preceded the Iraq War, but there is one notable difference. Whereas the American media in 2002 followed the lead of the U.S. government in beating the war drums against Saddam, they now seem even more eager for war against Iran than the U.S. government itself, which actually appears somewhat reluctant."
- Nicķ
from Bookmarklet
Mimi Alford: JFK pressured 19-year-old mistress to perform oral sex, do drugs - http://slatest.slate.com/posts...
Nispell liked this
"Mimi Alford, then Mimi Beardsley, interned at the White House in the summer of 1962, quickly caught the president’s eye. The 19-year-old joined the 45-year-old president for a noon swim four days into her internship. Later that day, he took her virginity in “Mrs. Kennedy’s room.” “After he finished, he hitched up his pants and smiled at me.” Alford says their sex life was “varied and fun” and describes an affair that was more than just sex. They apparently spent an “inordinate amount of time taking baths” and listened to music together. He confided in her during key personal and professional moments, such as when his infant son died and during the Cuban Missile Crisis. But he never kissed her on the lips. At one point, during another noon swim, Kennedy allegedly asked Alford to “take care” of an aide. He watched as she performed oral sex on him. Kennedy ended up apologizing to both of them. At a later date, Kennedy asked her to “take care of my baby brother,” meaning Ted Kennedy,...
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- daveeza
from Bookmarklet
New Breeding Program Aimed At Keeping Moderate Republicans From Going Extinct | The Onion - America's Finest News Source - http://www.theonion.com/article...
What Romney Could Learn From His Mexican Family - http://politic365.com/2012...
"Romney’s ancestors essentially fled to Mexico for many of the same fundamental reasons Mexican migrants want to come to the U.S. today: in search of a better, safer life. The Romneys were able to settle in Mexico, learn Spanish, build a prosperous business, and establish roots in their community."
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
It's Okay... I'm a Lawyer. - http://illegalities.tumblr.com/post...
vicster, SteVe C, Mathew A. Koeneker and 3 other people liked this
"Atheism in America" Godlessness is the last big taboo in the US, where non-believers face discrimination and isolation http://on.ft.com/xftE79 ~ “I’ve been told things like ‘I hope you have an accident, die and go to hell.’ So that’s what I’ve been up against.”
Morton Fox, Iván Abrego, Janet-The Bottley Crue and 20 other people liked this
"Psychotherapist Marlene Winell, who practises in Berkeley, California, specialises in “recovery from harmful religion” and advocates religious trauma syndrome as a psychological diagnosis. “There are so many places in the US that are just saturated with religion. Everything is interwoven – their families, their schools, their business – so that if you were not part of the club, part of the group, you get ostracised and people go through really horrible experiences of not belonging any more.” If that sounds like the experience of leaving a cult, perhaps that’s because, as Winell argues, “in its raw form, fundamentalist Christianity that believes that the Bible is the word of God is basically a giant cult.”
- The Real sofarsoShawn
From the outside, keeping your views to yourself may not seem such a problem. But this is only if you think that it’s easy to live hiding who you really are from almost everyone around you, even close family. Take Matt Elder, who lives in Festus, Missouri (pop. 11,602). When I met him in a downtown St Louis diner, he came across as a cheerful, friendly guy, not someone living under a...
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- The Real sofarsoShawn
Data backs up anecdote. A now famous University of Minnesota study concluded that Americans ranked atheists lower than Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in “sharing their vision of American society”. Nearly 48 per cent said they “would disapprove if my child wanted to marry a member of this group” (many more than the next most unpopular category,...
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- The Real sofarsoShawn
Boo hoo hoo.
- Akiva
That's an interesting reaction. I wonder how that would look under a post about about oppression of e.g. gay people.
- Eivind
Religion is a choice. Being gay isn't. It's kind of rude that you'd try to pair the two.
- Akiva
I know you think it's a choice, but it really isn't. The best I can do is to choose to pretend to believe in your gods.
- Eivind
That's absolutely ridiculous. You really believe that religion is genetic?
- Akiva
I don't know what role genetics play in people's religiosity. Why's that relevant? If I close my eyes and try really hard I still won't believe that you're one of the only real god's chosen people.
- Eivind
You don't know what role genetics play in religion yet you're sure it's not a choice?
- Akiva
I know I can't decide to suddenly believe in one or more of the proposed gods. You don't know what role genetics play in sexual orientation.
- Eivind
So you also think that homosexuality is a choice?
- Akiva
Eivind, perhaps you can't, but atheists and agnostics do every day through conversion. That is their choice.
- Kelli H.
What do you mean 'also', Akiva?
- Eivind
Answer the question. Erase the 'also' if it makes you feel more comfortable. Do you believe that homosexuality is a choice?
- Akiva
If religion isn't a choice, doesn't that suggests atheists shouldn't make fun of theists either?
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
I don't think homosexuality is a choice, Akiva. Victor, ...
- Eivind
I don't think either side should make fun of the other.
- Stephen Mack
from iPhone
Why do you think that religion is not a choice then?
- Akiva
I think religion is a choice. People pick and choose those all the time. An atheist, at least this atheist, can't just suddenly decide he now believes in one or more gods, though.
- Eivind
But you earlier typed that religion isn't a choice. You typed specifically 'I know you think it's a choice, but it really isn't.' Can you explain that?
- Akiva
The data seem to show that most people tend to stick to the religion they grew up with, or at least to something similar. Radical conversions aren't common.
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
That's not essential to this conversation, Victor. I'm interested in Eivind particularly. I'm a Jewish Buddhist who was raised Catholic because his parents converted before I was born. I have a particularly unique view.
- Akiva
I didn't read your comment carefully enough, Akiva.
- Eivind
You're still not answering the question, Eivind.
- Akiva
I did. I explained why I answered the way I did.
- Eivind
I think it's relevant, Akiva
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
So you believe that religion is genetic?
- Akiva
Victor, you're wrong. You know what they say about statistics. I value Eivind more than that. I refuse to denigrate him. I want to know what HE thinks. I don't care what statistics say.
- Akiva
I am not sure. I can't rule out the possibility that genetics play a part.
- Eivind
And how do you feel about homosexuality?
- Akiva
Or are you admitting that Jews are a race?
- Akiva
It's clearly hereditary. Which is not the same as genetic. But there are structures in the brain that seem to be associated with strength of spiritual belief.
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
So it's hereditary but not genetic? Jews are a race but they're not a race?
- Akiva
How can you explain that I'm not Catholic?
- Akiva
Akiva, I don't understand your questions.
- Eivind
Don't act dumb because it's convenient, Eivind. It's unbecoming of someone of your intelligence. Answer. The fucking. Question.
- Akiva
There aren't specific genetic loci that you could look at and say this person belongs to X race. I'm of the opinion that race is more of a cultural concept than a biological concept.
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
Victor, do you think that homosexuality is a choice?
- Akiva
Akiva, I don't think homosexuality is a choice. I think you were right the first time when you pointed out that the discussion regarding sexuality doesn't cleanly map to the discussion regarding theism/atheism
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
Thank you. Religion IS a choice. The pressure of parents is a huge thing. It's unbelievably stressful. I refuse to impress my beliefs on my kids. I want them to do what I did, figure it out on their own. I'll support them in their choices regardless of how it might be opposite of I believe. I wonder if Eivind would do the same.
- Akiva
Atheism isn't a choice. I didn't think it would be cool to be the only person I knew that didn't believe in God. I didn't think it would be great to be different from my friends in a way they would never accept. It was a realization. I realized none of it made sense and the questions I had couldn't be answered. I realized I didn't believe. I can't choose to believe again. Choice and genetics aren't the only two options here.
- <3Heather<3
Heather, you really believe that your atheism wasn't choice? That's physically genetic?
- Akiva
It's either genetics or environment.
- Akiva
And, for the record, I absolutely respect atheism. It's far more reasonable than theism.
- Akiva
Reread my last sentence.
- <3Heather<3
Isn't atheism more like a neutral state? It's then a choice to pick (or being forced) some religion on top of that.
- Jemm
Heather, then what are the options?
- Akiva
I'd guess nuetral point would be "community model" your family friends and larger aquantances religious choice. Your reaction as you find your place on the"religion continuum" would be the question. Is it genetics, education, or...?
- WarLord
The word I believe best describes it, is the word used in my post. If you read it you would know it. Or is reading my post an attempting to understand it less desirable then asking me leading questions?
- <3Heather<3
Jemm, often yes. There are atheists, people who simply don't believe in a deity. Then there are atheists who are proselytizers, who believe it is their job to convert people. I'm not down with anyone who thinks they are in a position to dominate other people.
- Akiva
Heather, I'm honestly curious. Do you really want to challenge people rather than educate them? I may have missed your point. I'm simply interested. I value people who have opposing viewpoints. Either you want to help me or you don't.
- Akiva
@Akiva: I agree with that. I was only observing the way of thinking, not how the people act - religious or not. I don't approve of forcing anything, either.
- Jemm
"It was a realization."
- <3Heather<3
Do you believe that your realization is somehow more valuable than other people's realizations?
- Akiva
When did I say or hint at that?
- <3Heather<3
You haven't. I'm just asking.
- Akiva
I believe religion and atheism are choices, and that a good number of people don't realize they've made a choice because they've been indoctrinated since early childhood. Those folx have chosen to go along with their families', friends', community's beliefs. I think that the hate & conflict between religions, and between the religious & atheists, is a big part of what has turned me off when it comes to organized religion in general.
- Starmama
from FFHound(roid)!
Why would you think to ask me that?
- <3Heather<3
Because I'm curious. Will you answer the question?
- Akiva
No. Do you think you're choice in religion is better or makes you a better person then others?
- <3Heather<3
Starmama, proselytization is violent. I don't support it in any form.
- Akiva
Heather, absolutely not. But I'm at least willing to discuss it. You are apparently not. What does that say?
- Akiva
Do you even know my religion?
- Akiva
I am discussing it.
- <3Heather<3
Yet you refuse to answer my question. Why?
- Akiva
I did answer it.
- <3Heather<3
No, you didn't. You know it. You're smarter than that. I'll repeat it: Do you believe that your realization is somehow more valuable than other people's realizations?
- Akiva
Ok, I'll repeat my answer. No.
- <3Heather<3
Crap. Totally misread your answer.
- Akiva
Imagine that.
- <3Heather<3
That's rude. I'm honestly curious about your opinion, I've expressed nothing but respect for it. And you've come back at me as a jerk. I just wanted to understand you.
- Akiva
Oh I'm sorry, I misread your respect for snark and condescension.
- <3Heather<3
Can you prove that? Can you show me one comment I've made toward you that was snarky or condescending?
- Akiva
I said I misread you, you know the same way you snapped at me before realizing you misread me.
- <3Heather<3
And I admitted that in a kind way, deleted my comment, and essentially apologized for it. Then after that, you capitalized on my mistake. I think even your apology was based in sarcasm. I know you don't like me and honestly I don't care. But I try to treat you well. You deserve better than what I do. And I'm sorry about that. Truly.
- Akiva
Listen Akiva, I'm really sorry if you're being a polite gentleman and I'm taking it all wrong. I'm sorry if you're honestly trying to gain understanding and insight into the mind of an atheist. I love knowledge and I have a need to understand people too. I'm also not refreshing the page, I'm intently following the conversation as it happens. If that's caused problems, I'm sorry for that...
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- <3Heather<3
Akiva, is the fucking question about whether Jews are a race or how I feel about homosexuals?
- Eivind
Oh good lord, girl. I don't need you to make me look like a jerk. I'm legendary at that. I'm a total jerk. I hate people. I just think we'd both benefit if we didn't think that we were both out for each other. We don't agree on a lot of things but I absolutely refuse to disrespect you over that. If I didn't surround myself with people who disagree with me, I'd never understand myself.
- Akiva
Hey, Eivind. Welcome back to the conversation! BOTH. I want answers to both.
- Akiva
Thanks for respectfully calling me "girl".
- <3Heather<3
I was being affable! Dammit. You are a girl aren't you? You're a hell of a girl. How is that an insult?
- Akiva
I guess it's not, boy.
- <3Heather<3
Absolutely not. And if you were offended by it, I'm honestly sorry. It's just ... I dunno. Two of my most used phases are 'old boy' and 'old girl'. WHY YOU GOTTA BE SO DIFFICULT.
- Akiva
I feel about homosexuals as I feel about heterosexuals. Most people are good people, and I don't think sexual preference makes a difference. I think 'race' is a somewhat outdated term, and what we describe as different races often maps better to culture than to actual genetics. There are certainly no well defined genetic borders that separate Jews from the rest of us.
- Eivind
Ha ha remember when Shawn posted a link? OMG.
- Akiva
That's actually quite incorrect, Eivind. Jews have diseases that are specifically linked to them.
- Akiva
You also didn't answer the question. Do you think homosexuality is a choice?
- Akiva
Also, do you think that black people are a culture and not a race? Asians? Indians?
- Akiva
It's quite correct, Akiva. It's all a continuum. There aren't any well defined genetic borders anywhere. This doesn't work the way you seem to think it does.
- Eivind
So you believe that a disease is culture-related?
- Akiva
And you believe that black people are a cultural choice rather than a racial one?
- Akiva
Sure, there are single-gene mutations that have higher incidences in Jewish (specifically, Ashkenazi) populations like Tay-Sachs disease or cystic fibrosis, but you can't look at someone's genome and say, well, they're clearly Jewish.
- Victor Ganata
Akiva, I don't think you understand genetics very well.
- Eivind
Then why is that disease uniquely bonded to Jewish people?
- Akiva
I'm simply asking a question. Why won't you answer it?
- Akiva
Which disease? Tay-Sachs? Or cystic fibrosis? Non-Jews can be born with those conditions as well.
- Victor Ganata
Akiva, for someone trying to gain understanding, you seem to ask very narrow questions instead of letting people tell you what they think. I would imagine if you give people the freedom to express themselves and read it with an open mind, you'll gain much more understanding then selecting specific questions to be answered before moving on.
- <3Heather<3
That's true but Jews are more likely by a huge margin to have Tay-Sachs, for example. By a wide margin.
- Akiva
Heather, I'm just wanting my questions answered. I'm absolutely ready to admit that my questions are wrong. But I always get curious why people refuse to answer questions.
- Akiva
Akiva couldn't that be based on religion or cultural mating selection?
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
There is no one-to-one correspondence between "race" and someone's DNA makeup. There is no "black gene" or "white gene". I don't think it's possible to answer the question you're posing if someone doesn't believe in a biologically-determined concept of race.
- Victor Ganata
Jimminy, possibly. But aren't diseases genetically based? I could be totally wrong on this.
- Akiva
Victor, that's incredibly interesting. Thank you.
- Akiva
While asking questions is legitimate, accusing others of refusing to answer because they didn't respond with THE answer that you chose you would accept before you even asked the question is nonsensical.
- Chris Topher
I just want ANY answer. The refusal of any answer is suspect.
- Akiva
The problem is that the question is loaded with an unwarranted assumption: a biologically determined concept of race. It's a lot like asking someone when they stopped beating their wife.
- Victor Ganata
Akiva, yes but Tay-Sachs is going to occur more often in a population if for some reason the population limits it's own breeding patterns to members of a population known to carry recessive genetics for Tay-Sachs. *Tay-Sachs could be replaced with other genetic disorders/diseases if you want.
- Jimminy, CoG of FF
Akiva, do you think European royalty is/was a race? They had hemophilia occurring at an incredibly high rate.
- <3Heather<3
Victor, that's an answer. The lack of an answer? It's suspect. And I'm actually not passive-aggressive. I loathe it. When I ask questions, it's usually because I want to be wrong. I want to be educated. I know I come off as whatever but in reality, I just want to learn.
- Akiva
Heather, I think that's different. And it's insulting. The royals weren't killed because of who they are. I can be killed for who I am. And regardless of Victor's stance in this particular thread, he at one time backed Jewishness as a race. I can be killed for who I am. I didn't choose to be Jewish. It's my heritage. My family was killed in Germany. What does that mean? Why do I get so upset over it?
- Akiva
And why should gays not be allowed to marry? Why should they have been killed as well? And Gypsies?
- Akiva
Anyone can be killed for who they are. And I didn't know death was part of the discussion.
- <3Heather<3
Of course death is part of the conversation. Are you unfamiliar with Jasper, Texas? Are you unfamiliar with women who aren't paid properly because of their gender?
- Akiva
I thought this was about atheism and the discrimination of atheists by theists. I guess I'm on the wrong thread.
- <3Heather<3
Clearly. I want atheists to be treated with the respect that they often don't treat theists. I want atheists to be not afraid, to have equal rights. Atheists can be killed for their convictions. I'm thoroughly shocked at your ignorance. I'm religious yet I am on your side. Good grief.
- Akiva
A lot of things, I think. You have me on your side even though you possibly think I'm an idiot for my beliefs. Yet I'd fight for your beliefs. How does that work?
- Akiva
I think Jimminy's comment here is a valid consideration for the genetic disease factor (and I think Heather's example of the royal family was exactly along those lines): a population that very actively discourages or forbids intermarriage is going to have a higher incidence of particular genetic markers. I think the discussion about culture and race and Judaism is very interesting and...
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- joey
I think it came up as part of the discussion as to what characteristics of a person are and aren't a choice.
- Victor Ganata
Against my will, I agree with joey's comment.
- Akiva
Akiva, I deleted my comment, stop bringing it up.
- <3Heather<3
Ah, okay. Thanks, Victor. Well in that case: I don't have a choice about being perceived as Jewish ethnically and discriminated as such at various points in my life (regardless of whether I had been raised with the religion or culture or not) but I also don't have a choice about not being considered 'part of the tribe' or religiously Jewish (without conversion) because my mother was an...
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- joey
I missed this ^ ... I'll brb I know what Heather's meaning to say about atheism is thati it's arrived at by a sense of skepticism, whic is not just an unwillingness accept staus quo-ism. Skepticism is a provisional aproach to claims. It is the application of reason, not revelation
- The Real sofarsoShawn
from FFHound!
No one cares about your opinion. This is about me and Heather working out our sexual tension.
- Akiva
Hahahaa this may help Akiva :D (i think you should get Eivind some Vday sweets to charm him, all girls love chocolate <3 ... moving along... Reason applied to any and all ideas - no sacred cows allowed. Skepticism is a method requiring doubt, not a position. When we say we are "skeptical," we mean, that we must see compelling evidence before we believe. Modern skepticism is embodied in the scientific method which is why you find a larger % of atheist scientists than the general populace.
- The Real sofarsoShawn
from FFHound!
Lastly...Jimminy,Victor, & Joey *nods head* yes is right race has no genetic or biological basis. This has been thoroughly debunked. All human beings have the same ancestors from Africa….Darwin :) The physical diversity of today is purely a function of geographical accidents, climates, isolation, & wndering bands. There is simply no such thing beyond the arbitrary & the artificial of...
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- The Real sofarsoShawn
from FFHound!
Coming late to a thread makes for interesting reading. The whole "it's either a choice or it's genetic" is not quite a correct starting point though. It's not A or B like that. Anything genetic is not rigid programming, just tendencies/predispositions/higher risk. And many non genetic things are nonetheless defining. In all cases, one can go against ones programming (whether genetic or...
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- Iphigenie
Iphigenie speaks in eloquent prose what I have been pondering. Most especially the very last statement: "I see atheists that are as aggressively religious about their beliefs as some of the worst religious bigots"
- Janet-The Bottley Crue
Yeah, ultimately, I think the whole "it's a choice, or it's not" is a false binary. And I have been disgusted by atheists who feel the need to cram their beliefs down other people's throats, but, yeah, they're not necessarily representative, and it certainly doesn't justify persecution.
- Victor Ganata
from iPhone
It must be tricky in the US where a lot of the social "glue" that's left outside work is religious. People are uncomfortable with atheism, you don't need to say much to make them feel threatened - the more they have given up for their religion, the more threatening you are (same goes for any opinion that requires sacrifice, but religion is the most common). And I also think that some...
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- Iphigenie
Here in Europe atheism isn't such a big deal, but I can imagine what it is like, say, in Bible belt. I think more than anything atheists want to separate church from the state and stop things like Creationism/ID being taught at schools at the expense of real science etc. It's fine, if people want to hold on to their beliefs when it's more of personal thing instead of organized.
- Jemm
As an Atheist, my biggest issue is religion being used to create laws...i.e. gay marriage, abortion, birth control, etc.
- Chris Topher
And keeping laws/traditions in place. And as an untouchable topic.
- <3Heather<3
That ^ was one of my major hang ups, sitting through the preaching in my religious instiutions, temple & church. I always wanted to raise my hand and ask questions. Even when I got to ask whom was speaking afterwards it would go something like this: "Why? It is written!" ~ the ol' "parental because I said so" doesn't cut it when you're supposed to be an omniscent "G_d"
- The Real sofarsoShawn
from FFHound!
I think you'll actually find a lot of theists who agree with the goal of preventing this country from becoming a theocracy.
- Victor Ganata
Amen. A theocracy run by anyone besides a deity is not really a theocracy.
- Eric Logan
Yes, people who want to make everything they consider immoral be illegal, and everything they consider moral be compulsory... should be kept as far away from power as possible. Whether they base their sense of morality and values on a god or science.
- Iphigenie
The 'smart" money guys, you know the ones who brought us "subprime" are whining about deficit. Debt is huge, they say. Dude right now the issue is DEFLATION and stagflation. See Japan, lost decade. Stimulus good, Put some folks to work and deficit is a self correcting problem. Keep cutting and DOW drops like rock
Was America Founded As a Christian Nation: Part 1 The Founding Fathers - http://threeskeptics.blogspot.com/2012...
Greg Guitarbuster, The Real sofarsoShawn, Joe The Sausage and 2 other people liked this
A LONG read, but worth every single word.
- Prosey BUTTONS!
But but but ... Merka was founded by Jesus himself with the 10 commandments that God help him chisel out by the burning bush!
- Rene, Pro Button Pusher
Rene seems confused, that was Moroni and the golden tablets here in America. Moses and the commandments next to Mount Moriah. Mohammad and a transcriber, the Dome of the rock and the Kaaba. Pay attention there might be a pop quiz. Right now is a good time to learn about the Alawite sect since much is being written presently. Good luck
- Key West
LOL
- Prosey BUTTONS!
I only want to learn if Jesus comes to teach me! There :P
- Rene, Pro Button Pusher
The actual Sermon that resulted in "One nation under God" being added to the pledge of allegiance.==> http://www.wallbuilders.com/downloa...
- Eric Logan
Birth Control Debate: Why Catholic Bishops Have Lost Their Grip on U.S. Politics—and Their Flock - http://swampland.time.com/2012...
WoH: Minding her Steves and WarLord liked this
"Ever since Pope Paul VI reaffirmed the Church’s senseless ban on birth control in 1968, few doctrines have been as vilified, ridiculed and outright ignored by Catholics – evidenced by a recent study showing that 98% of American Catholic women have used some form of contraception."
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
Jihad-mongering: ‘Bin Laden told children to live in peace in the West’ – The Express Tribune - http://tribune.com.pk/story...
Slain al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden urged his younger children to go live peacefully in the West and get a university education, his brother-in-law said in an interview published Sunday.
- Eric Logan
from Bookmarklet
Severe Conservative Syndrome - NYTimes.com - http://www.nytimes.com/2012...
WarLord and Greg Guitarbuster liked this
"How did American conservatism end up so detached from, indeed at odds with, facts and rationality? [...] My short answer is that the long-running con game of economic conservatives and the wealthy supporters they serve finally went bad."
- Andrew C (✓)
from Bookmarklet
"For decades the G.O.P. has won elections by appealing to social and racial divisions, only to turn after each victory to deregulation and tax cuts for the wealthy -- a process that reached its epitome when George W. Bush won re-election by posing as America's defender against gay married terrorists, then announced that he had a mandate to privatize Social Security. Over time, however, this strategy created a base that really believed in all the hokum -- and now the party elite has lost control. "
- Andrew C (✓)
George Will on Why Ron Paul is Right About Foreign Policy and Mitt Romney is Wrong - http://www.ronpaul2012.com/2012...
"Few things so embitter a nation as squandered valor, hence Americans, with much valor spent there, want Iraq to master its fissures. But with America in the second decade of its longest war, the probable Republican nominee is promising to extend it indefinitely. Mitt Romney opposes negotiations with the Taliban while they “are killing our soldiers.” Which means: No negotiations until the war ends, when there will be nothing about which to negotiate…"
- Sean McBride
from Bookmarklet
"Romney says: “It is unacceptable for Iran to have a nuclear weapon…” (Leon) Panetta says Iran acquiring nuclear weapons is “unacceptable” and “a red line for us” and if “we get intelligence that they are proceeding with developing a nuclear weapon, then we will take whatever steps necessary to stop it.” What, then, is the difference between Romney and Obama regarding Iran?"
- Sean McBride
Earnest illegal immigrants deserve a path to citizenship - http://www.latimes.com/news...
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"Under the Reagan administration, 'amnesty' wasn't a dirty word. It meant hope, dignity and a second chance for illegal immigrants. Why can't we do that again?"
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
Ask the Tea Party and get back to me. The Republican Primary is about demonizing brown people and how much barbed wire we can string along the border with amnesty ranking somewhat below abortion...
- WarLord
Billboard supporting immigration attracts attention - http://www.thetimesnews.com/news...
"A statewide billboard campaign in support of immigrants continues this month in several cities including Mebane. The billboards are part of an initiative led by Raleigh-based Uniting NC to put a human face on immigration and change negative rhetoric that has been part of public discussion"
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission: 558 U.S. 130 S.Ct. 876 (January 21, 2010), was a landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court holding that the First Amendment prohibits government from placing limits on independent spending for political purposes by corporations and unions wikip -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...
Steven Perez, Andrew C (✓), NotdaBOTTurlokin4 and 3 other people liked this
A Petition to Support the Saving American Democracy Amendment Sen. Bernie Sanders (Ind) has proposed a constitutional amendment that would overturn the Supreme Court decision in a case called Citizens United vs. FEC (http://bit.ly/zg9IDZ)
- The Real sofarsoShawn
Citizens United will be much less fun and exciting for the RWNJ, when Democratic candidates play the same game and get elected...
- WarLord
Interesting read: Where is Kropotkin When We Really Need Him? https://www.commondreams.org/view...
The Real sofarsoShawn and WarLord liked this
Who am I kidding, Kropotkin will never be taken any kind of serious because of the big red scare *sigh*
- Rene, Pro Button Pusher
Maddow Explains How Ron Paul May Be The Current Republican Front Runner In The Presidential Race! - YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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When I first started seeing her on TV, I was impressed with Rachel Maddow but then she turned into typical MSNBC partisan Democrat. She was a Johnny One Note about gay, gay, gay. All in all, she got boring. This was a nice, informative segment.
- Berthe
Rachel Maddow was always ridiculing Santorum, always bringing up that google thing (which I have never looked at). I don't watch her show but I would be surprised if she didn't do a lot of segments on the "Ron Paul racist newsletters" tripe, too. But maybe the light bulb went on in her head. Maybe she gets it that if not for that concerted media attack over the newsletters, Paul would have won Iowa and Santorum would have been gone. She could end up with a President Santorum.
- Berthe
Not likely. But whatever. When I read that people haven't taken the time to listen to Rachel, I'm always a bit stunned. She's got a "reputation" because she's on MSNBC, because she's a lesbian, because she's seen as some kind of out-there liberal. I think that a lot of people who overlook her would be so surprised by actually listening to her and watching her interact with her guests. She's pretty amazing. I don't always agree with her, but I definitely like her.
- Prosey BUTTONS!
Hi Prosey - Yes, thats what I mean. When I first started watching her I thought she was very sharp but then she fell in with MSNBC's mindlessness. This was a good segment and it would be nice to see her drop the Democratic partisan shtik. IMO, it does not appeal to "liberal" or "progressive" people. They are making a mistake to think they can succeed by being the Fox News for Democrats. I want information (even or especially if it changes what I already think), not confirmation of what I already think.
- Berthe
From Salon Unions in a “death spiral”? Not on my job site http://www.salon.com/2012... In the building trades, labor is flourishing. This is my reality for almost 40 years of building trades union membership dominating our industry.
Today, the union construction sector enjoys a market share approaching 50 percent of all non-residential construction dollars spent in the United States.
- WarLord
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