"Some commenters seem to believe that because I am critical of the current conservative movement, I must be a liberal--maybe even a left-wing Democrat. To those commenters, disbelief in global warming, in the regulation of gun ownership, and in the criminalization of early as well as late abortions is a litmus test of "true" conservatism. There are, in fact, multiple conservatisms, as Becker and I have emphasized. Like Becker, I believe in limited government and so do not support government activities that cannot be justified convincingly by reference to considerations of economic prosperity, basic individual liberties, or domestic or national security. I do not favor the curtailment of individual liberties on the basis of religious beliefs, nostalgia for the "good old days," or traditional social beliefs (such as distaste for racial minorities or homosexuals) that cannot be related to economic, libertarian, or security values. One of Reagan's great political achievements was to unite the diverse conservatisms in a single political movement that managed to gain the support of a majority of the American people." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet

The GOP is distinct from the Conservative Movement. Moving away from Conservatism, as in failing to cut spending when in power or nominating McCain for President, is what has the GOP in trouble. - Robert Hafer

Robert Hafer: a number of factors have done in the GOP: attacks on U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, crony (corrupt) capitalism, embrace of police state culture, fiscal irresponsibility, hate radio, messianic and reckless foreign policy, neoconservatism, religious fundamentalism, subversion of the intelligence process, torture. It has been an amazing performance and decline. And they seem hell-bent on digging themselves deeper into the hole. - Sean McBride

Sean, seven of the things you mention could also be said of the Democrat party. Eight if you include Global Warming as a religion. The truth is that more average Americans are Conservative than Liberal; if they have a party that represents that, they will vote for them. - Robert Hafer

I happen to agree that the Democratic Party is as corrupt as the Republican Party. They enabled the Bush 43 administration and the neocons every step of the way (Nancy Pelosi is the poster girl for the problem). The United States is on the verge of a generalized political meltdown. - Sean McBride

In the same way that the Carter admin enabled the election of Reagan. Obama may be paving the way for the next true Conservative President. - Robert Hafer

Rene Wirtz - It was, in fact, under Reagan that we experienced the longest peacetime economic expansion in the history of the US and this after double digit inflation and interest rates in the 20s and a recession (required to fix the inflation and high interest rates) that saw unemployment reach greater heights than it is today! It amazes me that you would try to suggest that today's economy had anything to do with Reagan when you would in fact laugh at the notion that Clinton Housing Policies played a large role in the housing crises just because he is no longer President! - Brian

@Rene - How was that? If you look at Regulations, they were not reduced by any means! they in fact exploded in the last 30 years and that is fact, so I would argue that the suggestions that freedom has been expanded in the last 30 years is just plain ludicrous! - Brian

@Rene - Please read the following if you want to get an idea at was was at the heart of the recent financial crises: http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArti... - Brian

@Rene: Hey, do you work for Realpage/Onesite? We use that software at the company that I work for! - Brian

Robert, how is your stance any different from Digby's sarcastic take ("Conservatism can never fail, it can only be failed,") ? - Andrew C (✓)

Gallup: GOP Falls With Nearly Every Group, Down To Conservative, Church-Going Base http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009... "Compared to 2001, when George W. Bush first took office as president, GOP self-identification has fallen by ten points among college graduates, nine points among those 18-29 years of age, nine points in the Midwest, six in the East, five in the West, and even four points in the South. Married people identifying as Republicans have decreased by five points, and the difference is eight points among the unmarried. The list goes on and on." - Sean McBride

Religious fundamentalists have taken over and taken down the GOP (see the latest Gallup poll above). I don't see how it can recover. - Sean McBride

Fundamentalists huh? LOL you guys crack me up: Generic Congressional polling has GOP in lead now: http://www.twine.com/item... - Brian

Now lets look at one of those issues the supposed fundamentalists have ruined the GOP with, abortion: recent Gallup poll shows more Americans now 'Pro-Life' than 'Pro-Choice' for the first time http://www.twine.com/item... - Brian

I guess the GOP should drop their Pro-Life stance according to you guys huh? - Brian

You guys seem to view things in a static fashion, that will lead to the left's next downfall! - Brian

Also, I was just listening to President Obama spout his religious beliefs in his recent speeches and his belief in God, every time Bush did that you guys cried foul, where are you now? - Brian

Obama was elected primarily because the Dems managed to drill into everyone's head the equation McCain=Bush. Once that connection was made, it was all downhill for McCain, no matter what polls he chose to look at. Really, as long as the Dems can make the argument that GOP=Bush&Cheney, they've got the White House stitched up for a while. But I do agree that the entire process, with both parties at the forefront, is fundamentally corrupt. And a house can only take so much rot before it collapses under its own weight. - Steven Perez

While I am no neocon, even I wouldn't claim that neoconservatism illustrates an intellectual decline. Neoconservatism has its intellectual underpinnings, but like any other movement (including conservatism and liberalism), there are both intellectuals and anti-intellectuals associated with it. - John E. Bredehoft from fftogo

John -- most neoconservative "intellectuals," like Daniel Pipes, Richard Perle, Michael Ledeen and David Horowitz, seem to specialize in spewing hysterical anti-Muslim hate propaganda -- that's their entire schtick. They are intellectuals in the same way that Julius Streicher was an intellectual. They barely rise above the level of Michael Savage. The GOP and the conservative movement didn't used to be exclusively about ethnic xenophobia and religious extremism. - Sean McBride

@Rene - it is a long read, but it pieces together 20 years or more in housing policy! - Brian

@Rene - That is very true Rene, I believe in Freedom and liberty! what that article exposes is that Gov. had more influence on the housing market and those that were given loans than anyone cares to admit, if after reading that you conclude that we had a FREE MARKET in home mortgages over the last 20 or so years I don't know what to tell ya! Everything in it was true and accurate, it doesn't really matter where the fault lies, remove the party labels from the whole thing and I think you will find it very frightening in deed as we are continuing down this path as we speak! - Brian

@Rene - What do you mean by "risk free Sub-Prime Mortgages"? I do not believe there is such a thing. I operate in multi-family housing and if we took that very same approach to whom we rent to we would go bankrupt as well. - Brian

@Rene - I am more concerned about the policy not the Parties! - Brian

@Rene - In the end Fannie & Freddie controlled over 60% of the ENTIRE mortgage market and they were the major enablers of these risky loans, the people issuing loans had NOTHING to lose and EVERYTHING to gain by making these loans as they immediately turn around and sell them to Fannie & Freddie who then spread the poison throughout the entire financial system and in the end some financial institutions decided to try to mimic their model by doing the same thing. If we go back to a system where the loan originator has to carry the loan to terms this type of thing would NEVER occur again. - Brian

@Rene - It is funny that you mention "unregulated", care to name an industry that is more regulated than the banking industry? You might find 1 or 2 regs that have been changed in the last 20 years but the banking industry as a whole is the most regulated that we have, Pharmaceuticals might be close. - Brian

The GOP is in trouble because it hasn't been conservative. Let the RINO's like McCain and all the other "progressives" leave. When the U.S. looks like California in another year or two, we'll see how many of you still want big government running things. - Spencer

@Rene - One of the least regulated would have to be the Tech industry (one that you operate in), Maybe it is time to have the Gov focus on that industry? - Brian

@Spencer - Good point, I live in CA and the weather seams to be it's only remaining attraction! - Brian

The latest Gallup poll shows that party affiliation for republicans is the same as democrats, something that hasn't happened in many years. I think many people are realizing the "hope and change" BS was just that. - Spencer

So, let me get this straight: after 8 years of vacation-presisdentin', two needless wars, a failure to bring to justice the perpetrators of 9/11, a total failure to assist the people of the Gulf Coast after one of the worst storms in living memory, a complete cock-up on every diplomatic front, a general nuttiness when it came to gays and guns, and the worst economic meltdown in 80 years - we needed MORE of this?!? Um, no. - Steven Perez from IM

Oh, but hey - at least the GOP showed that they cared about a brain dead woman's right to live. That's ... not really anything, is it? - Steven Perez

@Steven You have a lot of false points there, starting with Katrina. The failures of Katrina started on a local level, with their Mayor who refused to do anything because as with all liberals, they waited for the federal government. Two needless wars? Afghanistan was needless? Wow. I think you and Sean should go back to your 9/11 truth meetings. - Spencer

But hey....democrats are doing such a great job with the economy....wonder when we will hit 20% unemployment? - Spencer

Spencer: I'm sorry that to hear that you can't go back to your parallel world, where everything is the Democrats' fault after eight years of Bush cock-ups. Hopefully, now that we have a scientifically inclined president, maybe then they can create a machine that can get you home. In the meantime, might I remind you that W couldn't move fast enough with relief after four hurricanes hit his brother's state in 2004, yet couldn't pass the buck fast enough when a bunch of black people got trapped in their attics in 2005. - Steven Perez from IM

Also, I may have been asleep when it happened, but when exactly did the Bush Administration catch OBL? Oh, that's right: Mr. Dead-or-Alive totally whiffed on that one, too. - Steven Perez from IM

And I love how, after thirty years of Reaganomics, suddenly the economy sucking is the new guy's fault. - Steven Perez from IM

Steven - 2 Needless wars huh? LOL you mean one that Obama thinks is neccessary in afghanistan? - Brian

And I'm not even gonna get into Iraq. That there are still people who believe that that war was a worthwhile event, and that said people aren't on the board of directors at Halliburton, boggles the mind. - Steven Perez from IM

Steven - So I take it you believe devoting our entire military efforts to catching OBL is the solution huh? boy, that is brilliant, oh, and how is Obama's efforts coming on that front? - Brian

Steven - What do you think about Sec of State Albright saying that "Saddam was the greatest threat that the US faces before 9/11"? was she and Clinton idiots as well? - Brian

If Obama is "scientifically inclined", he should be able to read a teleprompter better. - Spencer

The economy hasn't been under 20 years of conservatives. Last I seen, democrats took control in '06 and lets remember, they control most of the strings. But hey, I should trust Obama and his huge spending, after all, a cabinet full of tax cheats is good, right? - Spencer

Ooooh, that was witty. Where did you get that one from, Hannity or Rush? - Steven Perez from IM

And would those be the same Democrats who couldn't bend over fast enough for Bush whenever he wanted? You mean, THOSE Democrats? - Steven Perez from IM

@Rene - They were actually risk free for the originators, were they not? - Brian

Spencer, before this descends any further into 4th-grade insults, let me tell where I stand on political parties: I don't trust ANY of them. Not a one. There's a joke that Lewis Black once told that sums up my feelings on the subject: "Republicans and Democrats are like thieves that break into your house and steal your TV. Republicans piss on you on their way out. Democrats hand you an umbrella and tell you to watch out for the rain." - Steven Perez from IM

@Rene - Again, please show me one Unregulated bank in the US, that is an out right lie and fallacy! - Brian

So, that's why I like Obama a bit more than his predecessor. Obama may be lots of things, but at least he's not a self-righteous jerk who thinks that God's on his side, like more than a few neocons I could mention and which Sean already has. - Steven Perez from IM

Steven - Greed came from the Gov buddy, is fact! They created the entire market for Sub-Prime, they were threatening banks to do so! how come that market did not exist in the Reagan hay day of the 80s then? - Brian

@Rene - There is a reason the market blossomed in the last 20 years and not in the last 30! - Brian

@Rene- 1 thing you might have missed in the article is that even Fannie & Freddie refused to purchase in the Sub-Prime market in the early 90s - Brian

@Rene - 1 last point, we do not argue that the free market does not have problems! they do! It is the left that REFUSE to acknowledge the Gov obvious huge influence here and that is going to lead to even bigger issues in the future, mark my words on that! - Brian

@Rene - Maybe we could agree there! - Brian

@Rene - Here is where our philosophies go in separate directions, I believe that we can have a greater impact on the free market than we can on Gov and that we can navigate the effects the free market has on us with less impact than we can the Gov. When the Gov makes a law or reg there is no way around unless you have undue influence like a lot of the Big Corps have. - Brian

@Rene - 1 thing I know for certain is, Big companies benefit by lots of regs and higher taxes due to the fact that they truly have less impact on them than they do their smaller competitors, higher taxes and more regs will benefit the status quo in the end! - Brian

@Rene - No one on my side argues for NO regs, I believe that they should be minimal and necessary! And no, I do not want the Fed Gov to run the banks by proxy! Fannie & Freddie have proven what will come of that! - Brian

@Rene - How did this country of ours become the leading economy in a little over 200 years? I believe that freedom and liberty played a large role. - Brian

@Rene, why do you want this country to be like every other country? Why does the worlds population immigrate here rather than us immigrating to the rest of the world? - Brian

@Rene - Greedy Corps love reg and high taxes, you really need to give that some thought to that, the small innovator is the one who will be harmed the most by over-regulation and high taxes as they do not have any influence on our regulators and congressman, President, etc..... High taxes have less of an impact on large corps pricing and they have a huge impact on Small Co pricing, same with regs, they have smaller impact on Large Co pricing and operations than they do on the small cos, there needs to be a fine line drawn here. - Brian

@Rene - And never forget the fact that the large greedy Cos can have a huge impact on regs so as to minimize their impact and they have the same influence on the tax code so as to shelter their profits from taxation, the fact is, the large greedy cos have more influence in WA with the right AND the left, they will use that to their advantage. - Brian

@Rene - Isn't Sweden a favorite tax shelter in and of itself? - Brian

@Rene - Have you ever heard of a small innovator who is too big to fail? Why is that? No influence! - Brian

@Rene - I am sorry, I would never, I repeat, never, support 100% taxation, ridiculous, when you volunteer to do that let me know! - Brian

@Rene - did you forget what I said about influence? - Brian

@Rene - I do not believe you will ever get rid of that, unless the Gov takes over entirely. - Brian

@Rene - Then you have Tyranny! Democracy or not. - Brian

@Rene- Then you need to volunteer! there is a box on your tax form that will allow you to pay 100% What is good for the goose is truly good for the Gander! - Brian

@Rene - We can punish the Rich by not buying their products, we do not need to have Gov do it for us! - Brian

@Rene - China has a lower Cap gains tax on Corps than we do, the reason they are growing is because they opened up their economy not the opposite! - Brian

@Rene - Funny you mention that, we (not Bush) argue that our Gov is spending us into bankrupcy! - Brian

@Rene - Let me give you an answer to the Bank statement and Tax statement at the same time: Care to explain to me why a bank would pay someone interest to put money in his bank? It is because he is going to use that capitol to invest and make loans and we all know how important that is now don't we? Let me tell you how the owner of the company I work for made money in the 70s when the top tax bracket was 70%, he parked almost everything in tax free municipal bonds, now let's explore how that benefited this middle income earner (me), he lends the Government money, then the taxpayer (me, you, etc...) pays him back with 3% interest and all of his earnings from that interest were tax free!! meaning he did NOT pay any taxes at all! and me & you paid him 3% to lend money to our Gov! Then in the 80s when your favorite Pres. Reagan (a bit of sarcasm there) cut that rate down to a more reasonable 29% he formed partnerships and began investing in multi-family housing which now employs more than 500 people! So I am very happy that he pays me for my services rather than me paying him to lend the Gov money! Please explain how taxing him more is going to make it more likely that he will increase what he pays me for my services or more likely to hire more people? Also, explain how it is that the Fed Gov collects more revenue from the rich now with the lower tax rates than they did when the rates were at 70%, could some of that be that they invest more and shelter less? - Brian

@Rene - I would argue that freeing their economy was the All important factor, the fact that their Gov is still Communist is why there is still oppression of their people occurring! - Brian

@Rene - restricting our economy will only make us less competitive. - Brian

@Rene - Why would you ever believe that 600 blowhards in DC can run an effective and competitive economy? They will do what comes naturally, they will create a Political mess of the entire thing! SSI & Medicare shows the way, you, me and everyone alive today would have to come up with $175K each to cover the unfunded liabilities of those 2 programs alone! Do you have it? I know I don't. - Brian

@Rene - In fact you can confiscate the net worth of every rich person in the country and you would still fall short of covering those obligations! I think were headed for massive printing of the $$$$ so you might want to buy Gold! - Brian

@Rene - Just putting it in an account with interest would have been safer, again, do you have 175K? - Brian

@Rene - exactly, as my Boss did! - Brian

@Rene - All I know is were a headed for some scary times and I am not too sure that Freedom and Liberty had much to do with it, they all coincide with our Gov becoming more burdensome and more powerful and having more influence on our everyday lives. We shall see though! The Gov is no doubt going to grow by leaps and bounds in the next few years, we shall see if it is the start of a great Nirvana :-) - Brian

@Rene - Also, I would gladly agree to getting rid of ALL tax loopholes and subsidies! Then have a few REASONABLE rates! Then enforce all laws period! - Brian

@Rene - As you said earlier, we can agree to disagree as the old statement goes. - Brian

@Rene - But it is only debates like these where you can put your beliefs and idealogy to the test and for that I commend you! I find I learn more debating those who disagree than I do with those with whom I do agree! - Brian