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US Politics

US Politics

Discussion covering all angles of American politics.
Sean McBride
BREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack | The Gateway Pundit -
"The Gateway Pundit can now confirm from two local St. Louis sources that police Officer Darren Wilson suffered facial fractures during his confrontation with deceased 18 year-old Michael Brown. Officer Wilson clearly feared for his life during the incident that led to the shooting death of Brown. This was after Michael Brown and his accomplice Dorian Johnson robbed a local Ferguson convenience store." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
True? Not true? If true, a bombshell. The story needs to be verified. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Dueling narratives in Michael Brown shooting - -
Dueling narratives in Michael Brown shooting -
"Was there a struggle? Yes. Everyone agrees on this point, and it's one of the few aspects of the shooting that police have attempted to detail, though the official explanation has spurred many questions they have yet to answer." - Sean McBride
Vampire Hunter DYSP
Things To Stop Being Distracted By When A Black Person Gets Murdered By Police | -
Things To Stop Being Distracted By When A Black Person Gets Murdered By Police |
"I wish I didn’t have to tell some of you that victim-blaming when a Black person is murdered by police is a huge no. That it doesn’t matter if they were on the honor roll, or smoked weed sometimes, or were going to college, or what brand of hoodie they wore, or even if they spent time in jail at some point. That the right to walk down the street without being a target for murder by the police isn’t a right one should have to prove themselves worthy of. That we should all just have that right by virtue of being human beings." - Vampire Hunter DYSP from Bookmarklet
"When you’re Black, you don’t always get the benefit of being seen as a human being, though. Black people are seen as ‘up to no good’ by default. The truth is that our lives, like anyone else’s, are filled with good choices as well as mistakes, achievements we’re proud of as well as missed opportunities. Successes. Failures. Just like everyone else. But what’s also true is that we, as... more... - Vampire Hunter DYSP
"If we were to talk about a victim’s past, we would have to talk about it in a context of oppression. But, you know what? We don’t need to talk about it at all. Because it is irrelevant to issue of their victimization. Just like bringing up a victim’s past to justify her rape is wrong, bringing up a victim’s past to justify his murder by police is also wrong. Yes, even when those people are Black." - Vampire Hunter DYSP
"The victim’s past isn’t the issue. The issue is yet another unarmed Black teenager murdered by police. His name was Mike Brown." - Vampire Hunter DYSP
Steven -- the focus in this case should be on collecting and analyzing all the available physical evidence and ascertaining the truth of what really happened. That is my opinion, at any rate. Feel free to disagree. - Sean McBride
Sean: I agree. - Vampire Hunter DYSP from Android
Steven -- I also understand why there is a great deal of emotion about this incident -- there has been a long-standing pattern of unacceptable police brutality against minorities (especially blacks) in American society. But at the end of the day, this particular case will be resolved on the basis of the best evidence. And one still can't rule out the possibility that Michael Brown was in the act of surrendering when Darren Wilson shot him -- a deed which would probably (and justly) send Wilson to prison. - Sean McBride
Given how previous cases similar to this one have played out in the courts (Sean Bell, Oscar Grant, Trayvon Martin, etc), I am not as optimistic as you in the fairness of the legal system, Sean. - Vampire Hunter DYSP
Actually, ask Sean what he thought about how the Trayvon Martin case went. - Andrew C (✔)
Sean, someone (who I'm guessing you've blocked or has blocked you) wants to know what you think about how the Trayvon Martin case went. - Stephen Mack
I didn't pay much attention to the Trayvon Martin case -- it became a media circus of the type I usually filter out. But when the story came out about George Zimmerman pointing a shotgun at his pregnant girlfriend, I became convinced that justice was probably not done in that case -- Zimmerman should have been convicted. - Sean McBride
The Michael Brown case strikes me as being much more important than the Trayvon Martin case in terms of its political and cultural impacts. And in this instance there will be much more physical evidence and eyewitness testimony available to determine what really happened. I am hoping that the full truth comes out, no matter what the truth is -- and it will be difficult to spin the facts. Bottom line: seek justice. - Sean McBride
There are many white racist cops out there -- we all know that. The question is, is Darren Wilson one of them and did white racism motivate his shooting of Michael Brown. My mind is wide open to accepting that this is true if anyone can persuasively make the case. In the meantime, I have no opinions one way or the other. The most important factual point to resolve now is whether Brown was surrendering to Wilson or running at him. - Sean McBride
No doubt this may be annoying to some people: I tend to look at human situations as intellectual problems to be broken down and solved, to be looked at objectively from every angle, with every assumption and assertion being strongly tested. Sorry -- that's my temperament. Experience teaches that if you rush to judgment, you can get burned. Get your facts in order. Stand on as strong a... more... - Sean McBride
"“Why should we cherish “objectivity”, as if ideas were innocent, as if they don’t serve one interest or another? Surely, we want to be objective if that means telling the truth as we see it, not concealing information that may be embarrassing to our point of view. But we don’t want to be objective if it means pretending that ideas don’t play a part in the social struggles of our time,... more... - Vampire Hunter DYSP
Steven -- I was using "objectivity" in a different sense -- collecting all the facts about situations and arranging them in their true order (to the best of our ability) -- to read reality aright. We will, of course, all use these readings according to our respective value systems and agendas when we take positions. The point is, be on solid factual ground when taking positions *on... more... - Sean McBride
And I would agree with you, were we talking about a competent police department that wasn't intent on firing tear gas and rubber bullets into peaceful protesters, to say nothing of threatening anyone with a camera. Such is not the hallmark of rationality. - Vampire Hunter DYSP
There is plenty to criticize in the Ferguson police department -- but apparently some of the protestors are not so peaceful. That is why the NAACP endorsed sending the National Guard into this situation. Use Google Images and Youtube to turn up all the evidence of looting, rioting and vandalism that has been going on. What do you think that businesses and store owners and employees in... more... - Sean McBride
The majority of which could have been largely averted, had the police department handled the situation in a more professional manner. How much of the destruction that has been wrought has been a result of the police deciding to escalate an already tense situation until it became necessary to bring in the National Guard? - Vampire Hunter DYSP
Steven -- you're right -- the Ferguson police aggravated the situation. But here is the point: what kind of people loot, vandalize and destroy their own neighborhoods to engage in political protest? For instance, Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank have endured much worse treatment and suffering than Ferguson residents -- but they have never trashed their own neighborhoods as a form... more... - Sean McBride
There's your mistake, Sean: looters don't need a cause; they need an opportunity. Just ask every sports fan whose team just won a championship if the looters that smash up their downtown area are "fans". It's the same principle in this case. There's always going to be a group of opportunistic assholes that will take advantage of a situation to their benefit, especially in a nation founded by opportunistic assholes. - Vampire Hunter DYSP
This just in: [Ferguson protesters: The peaceful, the elders, the looters, and the ‘militants’] - Sean McBride
Riots that occur after sporting events are not pretending to be acts of noble political protest. - Sean McBride
Celebration riots in North American Sports. - Eric Logan
The Sociology of Crowds: Celebration Riots in North American Sports. - Eric Logan
Actually they are fans it seems and large groups of young white males are usually present and it's most likely to happen after long droughts by the sports teams and the culture surrounding the venue matters according to the only study I can find. - Eric Logan
Of course Steven is most certainly correct that they are not really fans in the truest sense of the word anymore than the looters are supporters of this family. - Eric Logan
Steven -- I can't think of any instances in which Palestinians have looted, vandalized and trashed their own neighborhoods in recent months; or in which Jews did so in the Nazi era; or in which American revolutionaries or the Irish did so under British occupation. From a cultural standpoint, there is something anomalous about this behavior -- it is not typical in most political situations. - Sean McBride
Eric -- who better to pay tribute to Michael Brown than looters? He himself looted a store in Ferguson minutes before his violent confrontation with Darren Wilson. - Sean McBride
Lots of people don't understand why looters "destroy their own neighborhoods" and I get it, but when people are disenfranchised and treated badly by those who are supposed to protect them, represent them, etc. it's hard to be personally invested in your neighborhood or even feel like it's "yours" at all. And while lots of folx scoff at the idea of outside agitators, the truth is they do... more... - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
The looting and vandalism are being chronicled in depth with images and videos posted on social media: 1. [Google Images; ferguson looting 2. [Youtube; ferguson looting] - Sean McBride
You're talking in circles, Sean. We're saying why people loot, and your reply is essentially "BUT BUT BUT BUT LOOTING!!" - Vampire Hunter DYSP
^^^^ - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
Steven -- I didn't see your response to this comment: I can't think of any instances in which Palestinians have looted, vandalized and trashed their own neighborhoods in recent months; or in which Jews did so in the Nazi era; or in which American revolutionaries or the Irish did so under British occupation. From a cultural standpoint, there is something anomalous about this behavior -- it is not typical in most political situations. - Sean McBride
Steven -- how do you think police should respond to the looting and vandalism? What is your best advice? - Sean McBride
"their own neighborhoods"... do the people of Ferguson hold stock in the stores & businesses that have been hit? In the actual neighborhoods, no one is breaking windows or setting fires to people's houses or apartments or schools..."their" stores & businesses aren't affected because "they" don't own them or profit from them. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
And you cannot compare what is happening to American citizens, who ostensibly have rights protected by the constitution, to Jews under Nazi occupation, who'd already been oppressed before the Nazis got there. They had no expectation of legal or constitutional protection and besides, nazis & anti-Semites did all the looting & burning for them. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
In the other political situations I mentioned -- for instance, in Gaza and the West Bank -- did Palestinians from one town enter another town and loot and vandalize it? Not that I know of. And the conditions of oppression in Gaza and the West Bank are much worse than in Ferguson. - Sean McBride
Well, Sean, I have a radical idea concerning how to deal with looters: stop shooting peaceful protesters, journalists and other pedestrians with tear gas, rubber bullets and sound cannons, and go arrest looters. And, if they can find the time, stop shooting unarmed black men. I know those sound pretty radical in the second decade of the 21st century, but maybe if the police really apply themselves, they can reach that goal. - Vampire Hunter DYSP
Anyone who tries to justify or rationalize in any way the looting and vandalism in Ferguson is going to have a tough sell with the American people -- even Michael Brown's family has strongly condemned that behavior *without equivocation*. - Sean McBride
Why are you comparing Ferguson to other places in the world? Do you think the people most affected by what's happening all have the luxury of watching, studying, and debating the politics of other countries? I'd guess the majority of people in Ferguson have been too busy working so they can pay their bills, raising their families, & trying to keep their children safe, to be worried about protest tactics elsewhere. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
folks in Ferguson being tear gassed while standing on their own property are "the American people." - t-ra supports #LOLSpidra
And this is where our brains part ways, Sean: I think you're conflating "looters" and "protesters". Which is something the police in Ferguson are doing. It's like watching the Bush Doctrine played out in suburban St. Louis: "Hey, look! Looters!" "Never mind them! We're being filmed! Get the LRAD!" - Vampire Hunter DYSP
Steven -- I didn't conflate looters and vandals with peaceful protestors -- I strongly support peaceful protest and even civil disobedience -- I am a big fan of Henry David Thoreau. But looting and vandalism have come to play a major role in recent events in Ferguson -- it's all over the news, in both the mainstream and alternative media. - Sean McBride
Why am I comparing Ferguson to other places in the world and previous eras of American history? Because many of us have noticed that legitimate political protest movements almost never rely on the looting and vandalism of their own property to make a political point. And that is why the serious protestors in Ferguson want to rid the looters and vandals from their midst as soon as possible. - Sean McBride
And you're insinuating that the protest movement in Ferguson does rely on looting? - Vampire Hunter DYSP
Might want to check the title of this post again, Sean. - Vampire Hunter DYSP
I insinuated no such thing: I explicitly stated, for instance, that the Brown family has condemned the looters and vandals *without equivocation* -- with no rationalizations presented to explain their behavior. I have also strongly and repeatedly condemned the heavy-handed behavior of the police. - Sean McBride
I am not in support of violence or looting. But I think it's important that people stop thinking that "they" are destroying "their" property. That isn't what's happening. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
I rewrote the sentence above to make my point more clear: Many of us have noticed that legitimate political protest movements around the world and in American history have almost never been accompanied by the looting and vandalism of the protestors' own property to make a political point. - Sean McBride
Sean, you cannot compare blacks in America to any other oppressed people in world history. Unless you have some personal or family experience of 400 years of slavery, apartheid, and continuing genocide in African-American communities, you may have little understanding of how people feel. I'm not justifying looting, but perhaps as I suggested to Hostage on a MW thread that he and Chomsky... more... - weareone
Steven -- how would you characterize Michael Brown's behavior at the convenience store? What does his body language convey to you? - Sean McBride
And saying "many of us have noticed..." doesn't really mean anything. I'd bet the vast majority of Americans don't see themselves in what is happening elsewhere, or put much thought into what it's like. Until it happens to them. And when it does, they're probably more likely to react in the moment than to go study protest movements in other countries. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
WHO GIVES A FUCK WHAT MIKE BROWN DID OR HOW HE ACTED. Whatever he may or may not have been doing, he SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN MURDERED FOR IT. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
Seriously, it's like you didn't read, or don't care about, the OP article. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
My question was, how would you characterize Michael Brown's behavior in the convenience store? -- a simple question. No reasonable person believes that he deserved to be murdered for committing a strong-arm robbery. The facts about what occurred in his violent confrontation with Darren Wilson still haven't been sorted out -- the picture is still murky. - Sean McBride
weareone: "I'm not justifying looting." Well then we agree -- it is not justifiable -- and it is incredibly self-destructive, as many African-American leaders have emphasized in their public comments in recent days. - Sean McBride
And no one on this thread has suggested otherwise. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
How would I characterize Michael Brown in the convenience store? Two words: paying customer: - Vampire Hunter DYSP
Given that the Ferguson PD likes to play fast and loose with the facts (just the Al Jazeera camera crew how they felt about receiving "assistance" from the cops in the form of getting tear gassed - and then being told by the chief that no journalists had been gassed), you'll understand, Sean, why I think that the local fuzz is somewhat economical with the truth. - Vampire Hunter DYSP
You're focusing on the wrong thing. As someone else has stated, often provocateurs are brought into the community to shift the focus, the narrative. Even if this was not the case, focus on the injustice. - weareone
Steven -- didn't Dorian Johnson already acknowledge that they robbed the store? Correct me if I am wrong. Why did Brown bully, intimidate and shove the cashier? Most people have characterized his body language as thuggish. - Sean McBride
And those people would probably see ANY black or brown person's body language as "thuggish" - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
You're illustrating the point that the OP article is making, illustrating it beautifully. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
weareone: my Irish ancestors experienced a great deal of oppression in Ireland and the United States for many years -- but it is not a subject that I dwell on at all -- I tend to be forward-looking -- most Americans are. With regard to the comparative oppression of peoples worldwide historically speaking, African-Americans certainly rank high on the list. But as you well know, hundreds... more... - Sean McBride
Starmama: how, then, would you characterize the body language in these images? - Sean McBride
I voted for Barack Obama twice for president precisely because he was the *least* thuggish of the available candidates. - Sean McBride
That brings up an even more troubling question, Sean: why didn't the police pick up Johnson, if for nothing else, then at least for questioning? Why was Chris Hayes the first person to interview an alleged robbery suspect? - Vampire Hunter DYSP
I see a big guy pushing a smaller guy out of his way. Maybe Mike was being mean. Maybe he was mad at something the other guy said. I also see another goddamned distraction in the form of dissecting a murder victim's behavior to shift accountability from the police officer to Mike Brown. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
The alleged robbery, btw, wasn't even an issue. Store never called police about it. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
Steven -- you are asking questions that still need to be answered -- and I can't wait for the answers. But is it a fact that Dorian Johnson himself acknowledged that he and Brown committed a strong-arm robbery in the convenience store? Johnson's own lawyer confirmed this on NPR yesterday -- and NPR -- hardly a right-wing media outlet -- was intensely curious about the problematic issues that have been raised in the last few days in this group. - Sean McBride
Which group? - MoTO: Team Marina
Starmama -- the main issue in this controversy is whether Brown was surrendering or charging Wilson when he was shot, and whether he assaulted Wilson before the shooting. Do you think you know what happened? I don't know. What we know so far is that the eyewitness claims that Brown was shot in the back were false. With regard to Dorian Johnson's credibility: even NPR questioned it yesterday. - Sean McBride
US Politics. - Sean McBride
Sean - Even NPR? Why is that so surprising? - MoTO: Team Marina
Do you think there is anything improper in NPR wondering about Dorian Johnson's credibility? Johnson's lawyer, the former mayor of St. Louis, took no offense to Robert Siegel's sharp and skeptical line of questioning. - Sean McBride
Sean, I'm not referring to past historical events, I'm talking about ongoing genocide and apartheid in the black community. Apartheid is now taking a different form, much more subtle and insidious than in Palestine or South Africa. The form is incarceration of the black community. Some stats are here: but just one example- 5 times... more... - weareone
weareone -- I have been aware of these statistics for a long time -- this is a huge social problem that needs to be addressed. I agree. With regard to the Ferguson situation what mainly interests me is uncovering the truth about really happened in the violent confrontation between Brown and Wilson and pursuing justice on the basis of that truth. Some people are assuming that they know what really happened before a full investigation has been completed -- I am not one of them. - Sean McBride
NPR, Sean? Link, please. - Vampire Hunter DYSP from Android
Everyone would like justice and truth, but the truth is that we have a very unjust system at the moment-police, courts, media, elected officials. I think this is the frustration that many are expressing."The Shortest Distance Between Palestine and Ferguson " - weareone
And that is why we need to pay very close attention to this investigation -- and demand that it be an honest investigation, with no suppression, manipulation or skewing of the facts. - Sean McBride
Also, six bullets is a little over-the-top a punishment for alleged petty theft, especially when the officer who pulled the trigger had no idea that an alleged robbery had taken place when he shot Brown in the street. - Vampire Hunter DYSP from Android
Steven -- I heard the Siegel interview of Johnson's lawyer on my car radio yesterday afternoon. I'll look for a link -- but you may be able to beat me to it. - Sean McBride
Steven -- the robbery had little to do with the shooting -- other than possibly making Brown and Johnson paranoid about being stopped by Wilson within minutes of the crime. The open question that needs to be resolved is whether or not Brown assaulted Wilson, grabbed for his gun, and later turned and charged at him. That claim is out there, but we don't know whether it is true or not.... more... - Sean McBride
Sean, no. I just asked why you were apparently surprised. As for the officer being a "maniac" I haven't seen any credible claims of that nature. What is known is that Ferguson police are nortorious for harassment of black people. Which may just put them in line with Missouri law enforcement in general. - MoTO: Team Marina from Android
If you believe that all these people murdered by police were reaching for the cops' guns, you're wrong. Whenever I hear that, I automatically process it as a lie. You'd have to be incredibly stupid, or fully confident in your white privilege, to try to take away a cop's gun. Most people, and black people especially, know that that will lead to them being dead. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
Paranoid people generally don't mouth off to police, Sean. If Brown and Johnson had actually just pulled a robbery, why didn't they hightail it out of the street the minute they saw the cop? - Vampire Hunter DYSP from Android
We're going in circles, Sean. How are you going to insure an" honest investigation, with no suppression, manipulation or skewing of the facts" ? Did you ever see the movie, "The Great Debaters?" It addresses some of these issues--what is the appropriate response to unjust laws or laws that are not applied with equality or corrupt officials who protect the status quo? - weareone
Steven -- once again, you are asking questions that need to be answered -- one could make any number of speculations about every aspect of the case as we know it so far. Let's get all the facts out. - Sean McBride
I can't even believe the claim that Brown was charging the officer. Maybe he was mouthing off. But I'm telling you, unless they're on drugs (not weed), the likelihood of someone thinking they can get away with charging toward an armed cop is probably close to nil. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
weareone -- aggressive investigative journalists and social media are going to be all over this case, looking into every minute detail. It will be nearly impossible to engineer a cover-up, in my opinion. The US Justice Department seems to be partly or fully in charge of the investigation -- one doubts that Barack Obama and Eric Holder would participate in a cover-up to unfairly exonerate Wilson. - Sean McBride
Starmama -- I agree -- it sounds completely crazy for Brown to have charged Wilson while Wilson was pointing a gun at him -- no sane person would do that. It is definitely not a claim that I am inclined to believe based on common sense. - Sean McBride
And trust and believe, most of us with black children have already had the conversation with them about how they may be treated by the police, and how to conduct themselves in any contact they may have with them. I'm sure that's something you cannot wrap your mind around. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
Starmama -- I have black friends -- I know about that conversation. - Sean McBride
And by all accounts, Mike Brown was neither stupid nor insane. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
At the same time, Wilson would have had to be crazy to shoot Brown *six times* (at least) while he was surrendering, with his hands in the air, and with any number of potential eyewitnesses in the immediate vicinity. At least one of the two parties in this confrontation was definitely not in his right mind. - Sean McBride
But I still doubt you could fully comprehend what it's like to never have complete confidence in your child's safety being guaranteed by the police. Or knowing that your child will be judged, and treated, based on how he looks, regardless of how he behaves. As well as I like to believe I have prepared him, I still lose sleep over the dangers he faces that a white teenager never even needs to consider. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
Sean, a little free advice? Never lead with "I have black friends." I don't doubt your sincerity but it falls flat. You shouldn't have to be in proximity to black people to have empathy for them. That seems to be a large part of the problem. We largely don't get the benefit of the doubt. It's like the conservative politician who doesn't support gay rights until he discovers that his son is gay. - MoTO: Team Marina
MoTO -- I was just stating a fact -- I have had conversations about these conversations with black friends -- and heard disturbing stories from them on these issues. This topic isn't abstract for me. - Sean McBride
Sean, I don't doubt your sincerity either based on our discussions on other threads, but good advice from MoTO. Sean--- <<It will be nearly impossible to engineer a cover-up, in my opinion>> I hope you're right. - weareone
Again, I don't doubt that it is. Just consider what I said. - MoTO: Team Marina
"The open question that needs to be resolved is whether or not Brown [...] later turned and charged at him. " As Shaun King tweeted, according to eyewitness accounts, Brown ran 35 feet from the cop car before stopping and turning. The _fact_ is that he died 35 feet from the cop car. So this question seems pretty resolved to me. - Andrew C (✔)
I stand reprimanded for divulging that I've had conversations with black friends about black political and social issues. I will take care to keep that secret in the future. :) By the way, I didn't lead with that information -- I mentioned it off-handedly in the course of this conversation about "the conversation." - Sean McBride
Andrew -- that's a compelling argument -- maybe this case will revolve around those all-important 35 feet. (But -- was Wilson standing by the car when he fired the shots? Or had he pursued Brown to a position away from the car?) - Sean McBride
"was Wilson standing by the car when he fired the shots? Or had he pursued Brown to a position away from the car?" -- Neither matters at all when considering whether or not Brown charged. He made it 0 feet back towards Wilson. But if you are curious, there are multiple eyewitness reports that do in fact answer this second question you've just raised. - Andrew C (✔)
In terms of successfully prosecuting a case against Wilson, all of these niggling details will matter greatly. - Sean McBride
Andrew: what do you make of this? -- [Conversation recorded by bystander just moments after Michael Brown shooting casts doubt on claims the teen surrendered to Officer Darren Wilson] If there is a trial, this will become part of it. - Sean McBride
I guess if you're gonna believe what you're gonna believe, I can't stop you. - Andrew C (✔)
Andrew -- I didn't express any "beliefs" about the content of the Daily Mail article -- I was wondering what you make of it -- is it credible? - Sean McBride
Sean, I saw that video the other day. I'm not convinced that the people in that video were 'witnesses'. It sounds more like hearsay to me. They also mention 4 shots fired, a break, then 4 more shots. One person (is that in this video) says the last shots were fired closer and after Michael Brown was down in the street. - Greg GuitarBuster
Would it be fair to say that the conversations that were recorded here within moments of the shooting were spontaneous and uncoached? That is a factor I would take into consideration. - Sean McBride
Yep, definitely spontaneous and uncoached. - Greg GuitarBuster
Right -- but not necessarily true or a first-person account, as you point out. Still.... - Sean McBride
Sean, take it as you please. I could take your last comment to me as patronizing. But I'm taking the high road :) - MoTO: Team Marina
Vampire Hunter DYSP
I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice System - The Atlantic -
I Got Myself Arrested So I Could Look Inside the Justice System - The Atlantic
"Ten years ago, when I started my career as an assistant district attorney in the Roxbury neighborhood of Boston, I viewed the American criminal justice system as a vital institution that protected society from dangerous people. I once prosecuted a man for brutally attacking his wife with a flashlight, and another for sexually assaulting a waitress at a nightclub. I believed in the system for good reason." - Vampire Hunter DYSP from Bookmarklet
"But in between the important cases, I found myself spending most of my time prosecuting people of color for things we white kids did with impunity growing up in the suburbs. As our office handed down arrest records and probation terms for riding dirt bikes in the street, cutting through a neighbor’s yard, hosting loud parties, fighting, or smoking weed – shenanigans that had rarely... more... - Vampire Hunter DYSP
Sean McBride
Caller: Officer's side of Ferguson shooting - -
16,000 comments! Many of the "Best" comments were deleted. - Sean McBride
I quickly scanned a few hundred of the thousands of comments -- those who are trying to defend Dorian Johnson's account of what happened in the violent confrontation between Brown and Wilson are being shredded. But the investigation is not nearly completed. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
U.S. police come under gunfire, arrest 31 in Missouri racial unrest | Reuters -
U.S. police come under gunfire, arrest 31 in Missouri racial unrest | Reuters
"U.S. police said early on Tuesday they came under heavy gunfire and arrested 31 people during another night of racially charged protests in Ferguson, Missouri, sparked by the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager by a white policeman 10 days ago." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
"State Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson, briefing reporters on Monday's night's violence, said "our officers came under heavy gunfire" in one area. "Not a single bullet was fired by officers despite coming under heavy attack," he told a news conference. Riot police had confiscated two guns from protesters and what looked like a petrol bomb. Four officers had been injured." - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
It's somewhat satisfying to be a bit ahead of the curve/crowd on political controversies (Robert Siegel's interview with Dorian Johnson's lawyer on NPR this afternoon)
Siegel on NPR bore down hard on the points I that I have posted here over the last few days -- the strong-arm robbery, the thuggish behavior at the convenience store, the lack of wounds to the back, the report that Michael Brown charged at Darren Wilson, Dorian Johnson's questionable credibility, etc. And it was difficult for Siegel to hide his attitude towards Brown and Johnson -- skeptical, distant -- definitely not warm or friendly. These issues have all gone mainstream. - Sean McBride
Pay no attention to the momentary passions of the crowd or the mob -- they often get everything wrong. - Sean McBride
Johnson's lawyer, former St. Louis Mayor Freeman Bosley, didn't sound very enthusiastic about his client. - Sean McBride
Andrew C (✔)
So Darren Wilson has a clean record? -
"The Ferguson police have indicated that there were no disciplinary reports in Darren Wilson's file. What Chief Jackson didn't tell anyone at any of the press conferences was that, until he took over in 2010, use of force complaints were not kept in an officer's personnel file." - Andrew C (✔) from Bookmarklet
"But while the police department is trying very hard to portray Darren Wilson as a good cop, we should keep in mind the history of a department that had officers commit perjury to claim that another innocent victim bled on their uniforms. Police Officer John Beaird, Police Officer Christopher Pillarick, and Police Officer Michael White were all named in the Daily Beast article as signing the complaint and then denying the facts in their depositions." - Andrew C (✔)
"And don't forget that the policewoman, Kim Tihen, who straddled Mr. Davis and cuffed him before her fellow officers beat him badly enough to cause a concussion, is now a member of the City Council of Ferguson, as reported here by a member of Daily Kos." - Andrew C (✔)
Sean McBride
County investigation: Michael Brown was shot from the front, had marijuana in his system - The Washington Post -
Nearly 1,400 comments so far; these are the top two comments in terms of number of likes: - Sean McBride
"This THUG stole cigars to make blunts, then he walked down the middle of a street, then he resisted arrest, and then he assaulted a police officer. If he had not resisted and assaulted the police officer, he would be alive today." - Sean McBride
"Seeing this guy man-handle a person half his size to steal cigars says it all to me.If we were talking Trayvon Martin,I would be on the liberals side.But this guy was'nt going to take crap from anybody.I think he tried to treat the cop the same way he did the store owner and believe when the cop started to get out of his car,this 6' 4",290 pound "boy" shut the door back on him which led to the physical altercation.And notice the first shots hit him in the arm." - Sean McBride
I don't *agree* with the comments, but I am paying attention to how public opinion is trending on this controversy on the Internet -- especially in the comment sections of the most influential publications. - Sean McBride
Third most liked comment: "I've been a police officer and a military officer. Officers are trained not to shoot unless they fear immediate, serious/life-threatening bodily harm. Once that point is reached, no department that I know of trains its rank-and-file officers to shoot to avoid deadly wound. They are trained to shoot center mass and keep on shooting until the person is down." - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
The last time Barack Obama got involved in a high profile racial case involving a cop, he ended up inviting the cop (James Crowley) to the White House to share a beer.
[Henry Louis Gates arrest controversy] - Sean McBride
Lesson: look before you leap. Get your ducks in a row. - Sean McBride
It's safe to say that Obama hasn't forgotten that episode. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Jay Nixon: "Given these deliberate, coordinated and intensifying violent attacks on lives and property in Ferguson, I am directing the highly capable men and women of the Missouri National Guard ... in restoring peace and order to this community."
Sean McBride
Why Michael Brown’s robbery would be admissible at a federal criminal trial - The Washington Post (Paul Cassell) -
"As Jonathan recently noted, Ken White at Popehat has a post covering some of the ways in which Michael Brown’s robbery does and does not matter legally. While White’s analysis is interesting, I think he is far too skeptical about whether the evidence would ultimately be admitted in federal civil rights prosecution. In my view, the evidence almost surely would come in, along with any additional evidence about Michael Brown’s bad character (should such evidence exist)." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
Sean McBride
Fwd: when you find yourself defending a position instead of learning new POVs, you're in trouble. #protip (via
Sean McBride
Michael Brown shooting recording casts doubt on claims he surrendered to Darren Wilson | Mail Online -
1. Unnoticed audio recorded in video filmed at scene of Saturday's tragic shooting contradicts claims made by friends of the Missouri teen 2. The scratchy recording of the conversation between two men seems to suggest that Brown was inside Officer Wilson's car 3. Despite being difficult to make out, the conversation suggests that Brown ran towards Wilson before he was shot - Sean McBride
"The first man explains to the second man that Brown was there because he had previously been inside the police car and run, which contradicts what the teens friend, Dorian Johnson, has told police and in interviews. Johnson has said that Brown was not ever inside Officer Wilson's police car before the shooting." - Sean McBride
"The alleged witness tells the man that Brown was in the police car with Wilson and then got out and ran away. 'Then the next thing I know he doubled back towards him cus (sic) the police had his gun drawn already on him,' according to blog, Conservative Tree House. The witness then contradicts the now crucial narrative of the how the tragic events unfolded last Saturday. Instead of... more... - Sean McBride
Top comment, with almost 3,000 likes: "I just knew there was more to this story, than the officer just shot this guy for no reason. Jesse and Al are going to end up with egg on their faces, as usual. Cops have a right to self defense too." - Sean McBride
If Obama and Holder are smart they will make no efforts to spin this investigation and story and let the chips fall where they may. The whole world is sifting through all the evidence and discussing it on the Internet -- the story is not spinnable. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
New York Times commenters on Ferguson/Michael Brown
There are now over 1,000 comments on this article -- -- some of them quite smart and analytical. - Sean McBride
Common Sense: - Sean McBride
"All the bullet injuries coming from the front matches the eye witness description of the sequence of events in the audio portion of that video on YouTube at around the 6:20 mark." - Sean McBride
"The eye witness described that Michael Brown took off running, then turned around, the police officer in pursuit with his weapon drawn." - Sean McBride
"Apparently Michael Brown turned around, and then went towards the police officer. I don't believe they described if he was running or walking, but there is no description of Michael Brown having his hands up, or surrendering." - Sean McBride
"There is also no description of him being down on his knees. The description that was given was that he was going towards the police officer, and the police officer began firing. The term that the witness used was "dumpin' on him" which I'm assuming means that the police officer was unloading and firing rapidly. The witness goes on to say that he thought the cop was missing the guy because the guy just kept coming forward." - Sean McBride
"Whether you want to call this charging the police officer, or just suicide by cop, the guy who got shot was not surrendering, he was moving forwards towards a police officer who had a weapon drawn." - Sean McBride
"The pattern of injuries looks to like he was running forward (charging), arm pumping, head leaning forward to pick up speed from a starting standing position. That explains the downard angle on the shot through the cheek / jaw / collarbone. After that, he probably started to fall forward, and got the other shot on top." - Sean McBride
Why are some people jumping to conclusions before all the facts are in? - Sean McBride
If this situation goes to trial, those eyewitnesses who claimed that Darren Wilson shot Michael Brown in the back are going to be demolished on the stand. - Sean McBride
Meanwhile, many "liberals" and "progressives" are trying to explain away looting, mob violence, Molotov cocktails, riots, strong-arm robberies, thuggery and vandalism as matters of no consequence. - Sean McBride
What this case now boils down to: was Michael Brown surrendering when he was shot or was he charging Darren Wilson? We don't know for certain yet. If he was charging Wilson with the intention of taking Wilson's gun and using it against him, as one eyewitness spontaneously claimed in that crucial video, then most people will conclude that Wilson was engaging in legitimate self-defense --... more... - Sean McBride
To those who are angered by the reasonable questions being asked by thousands of level-headed and fair-minded commenters across the Internet -- think carefully. Ultimately the facts are going to resolve the open questions about what really happened here and you'd better have your facts in order. - Sean McBride
Most people -- even the NAACP -- are losing patience with the looting, riots and mob violence in Ferguson: "NAACP supports Nixon's use of National Guard" What kind of people destroy their own businesses and neighborhoods to make a political point? In what other nation in the world does one see such self-destructive behavior? - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Autopsy Shows Michael Brown Was Struck at Least 6 Times - -
"Mr. Johnson said that he hid behind a parked car and that Mr. Brown was struck by a bullet in his back as he ran away, an account that Dr. Baden’s autopsy appears to contradict." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
Darian Johnson would appear not to be a credible witness if the New York Times report is true. One wonders if anything that Johnson said corresponds to the facts. There should be enough forensic evidence available in this situation, especially in Wilson's vehicle, to decide one way or the other. Was a bullet in fact fired in the car? - Sean McBride
I have a great deal of trouble understanding why so many people are expressing such strong opinions about this incident without knowing the facts of the case -- it's really amazing. Some of them are going to end up looking quite foolish. - Sean McBride
A top comment at the New York Times: "It's very interesting to watch the evolution of this story. First, we're told to believe that Michael Brown was a college-bound 'gentle-giant' but over the past couple of days we see the truth that he was a violent thug and possibly a member of the Bloods gang. Now, from the autopsy we can see that he was NOT shot in the back (as we were told... more... - Sean McBride
Another top comment: ""When the officer opened his door, it hit Mr. Brown. With his left hand, Officer Wilson reached out and grabbed Mr. Brown by the neck, Mr. Johnson said." I cant see how a man sitting in a car could reach out and grab a 6'4" man's neck. Something doesn't make sense here." That thought occurred to me immediately -- it doesn't appear to make sense. - Sean McBride
Another top comment: "Since all shots were came from the front of the body proves that he was not running away, the fact that the fatal shot was in the head which was moving forward indicates that Brown was running towards the officer. All this have vindicated the police officers story along with a video with an eye witness telling her story which she said Brown ran towards the cop. This was a criminal who resisted arrest and was killed for it." - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Ferguson Police Detail the Moments Before Michael Brown Was Shot - ABC News -
Ferguson Police Detail the Moments Before Michael Brown Was Shot - ABC News
Real or not real? - Sean McBride
Allegation: 6'4" 290lbs. - Sean McBride
I never develop opinions about stories of this kind until all the facts become available. The amount of pure bullshit that can accumulate before the facts come in can be mind-blowing. - Sean McBride
Thugs who bully and beat up on much smaller law-abiding people in the commission of crimes should be removed from the streets. Most people get that. The identity of the thug in the photos above remains to be determined for a certainty. - Sean McBride
Sweet merciful crap, Sean. - Andrew C (✔)
Andrew -- so you have this case all figured out? Please share the details. - Sean McBride
from your link: "The chief made clear, however, that Wilson's confrontation with Brown was not prompted by the report of the store's robbery. Jackson said his officer's contact with Brown began because Brown "was walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic." " - Andrew C (✔)
What is your reaction to the images above? What kind of person engages in that kind of behavior? What would you predict about his behavior in general? - Sean McBride
Neither would I. What we all need to know now is if the nasty thug above tried to wrestle Darren Wilson's gun from him. I for one am curious to know what really happened. I guess you already know what happened -- on what basis may one ask? - Sean McBride
Eyewitness reports of the shooting. (and you'd better not ask for a link, Mr "Google it".) - Andrew C (✔)
What did you think of the story about the Ferguson police charging an innocent man with destruction of police property for how he bled on them after they beat him while he was in custody? (edit: and then contradicted their own written reports when on the stand) - Andrew C (✔)
I've read the eyewitness reports of the shooting to date -- this situation hasn't begun to be sorted out. Let's hear what Darren Wilson has to say. - Sean McBride
Do the images above induce revulsion in you or not? They would in most people. The character in those images is a violent criminal of a type that most of us find despicable. - Sean McBride
Off to dinner -- will pick this up later. - Sean McBride
A mugger still deserves his day in court, not an extrajudicial execution. Again, not unlike the Trayvon Martin case, the dead kid is being tried for his own murder, and that's what I consider despicable. - Andrew C (✔)
Every eyewitness account (save the shooter's, I guess) says the last few shots were from 20 feet away, delivered to Brown's back ( Again, what you are insinuating is that committing a violent robbery justifies being shot like that, which is actually not what law and proper police procedure say. - Andrew C (✔)
"James Lasley, a professor of criminology at Cal State Fullerton and former advisor to the Los Angeles Police Department. “Maybe they’re trying to separate the two events, because obviously a strong-arm robbery is not going to justify the use of deadly force.”" - - Andrew C (✔)
See also - by the ABC video timeline, the robber was still in the store at 11:53 am (video timestamp). The initial confrontation between Brown and the officer occurred quite a ways away, just about seven minutes. - Andrew C (✔)
But again, again, the main point is that you appear to be straight up buying into the idea that someone who isn't squeaky clean deserved to die. That's horrendous. - Andrew C (✔)
I didn't say he deserved to die -- your misrepresentation of what I said is horrendous. What I am saying is that *if* the character in the above video is in fact Michael Brown (we need more information on this issue to know for sure), then he strikes me as the kind of person who would be likely to get involved in violent altercations with others that could lead to bad outcomes. Most... more... - Sean McBride
Andrew -- how would you feel about being roughed up and threatened by the character above while he and his partner were robbing you? Would you just let the incident pass as no big deal? - Sean McBride
This is the kind of information I am waiting to surface: [Details emerge regarding Darren Wilson, officer who shot, killed Michael Brown] There is much more to come. "Jackson also said Wilson suffered facial injuries during a struggle with Brown." -- true or not? I don't know. - Sean McBride
Lawyer: Friend confirms he, Brown had robbed convenience store - Sean McBride
"The friend who was with Michael Brown when he was shot and killed by a police officer near St. Louis over the weekend is reportedly confirming that he and Brown had taken part in the theft of cigars from a convenience store that day." - Sean McBride
Andrew: I was betting that Dorian Johnson would confirm the store robbery story and the truthfulness of the video -- seemed obvious to me. - Sean McBride
"Brown's family is accusing police of trying to draw attention away from the shooting." -- if Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson were in fact violent criminals who were in the habit of bullying and intimidating others, that might bear some relevance to what precisely transpired betweenthem and Darren Wilson. So let all the facts come out and then decide. - Sean McBride
"violent altercations with others that could lead to bad outcomes. " - but even this is a misdirection. Multiple eyewitness reports have it that HE WAS KILLED BY MULTIPLE SHOTS AFTER HE TURNED BACK TO FACE THE COP WITH HIS HANDS UP. - Andrew C (✔)
Andrew -- billmon is one of the smartest and most progressive minds on the Internet, and someone with a gift for cutting through bullshit -- he recently tweeted: "billmon: .@jamesjhare It did to me, but it appears Brown's friend Dorian Johnson has confirmed it was them in the video." Stupid makes him irritable. He just wants to know the facts. - Sean McBride
Eyewitnesses also said the cop prevented a bystander who happened to be a nurse from attempting to tend to the fallen Brown. - Andrew C (✔)
And what happened before the shots were fired? Or is that a trivial detail of no importance in your mind? I am not defending the shooting -- but inquisitive people are wondering about what chain of events led to this appalling outcome. - Sean McBride
And if you're following Billmon, then you'd see he also cited Shaun King in that same thread. So let's see some other things King tweeted today: - Andrew C (✔)
[King:] "The Ferguson police, who were so bad at security that they were removed, have been VERY unethical today. Here's how... Instead of having a full/honest reporting by releasing audio from the officer about what he saw or the autopsy report, they released 1 side. The Chief of Police in Ferguson has proven himself to be divisive and outrageously biased/unfair/heavy handed at every turn." - Andrew C (✔)
Mediaite: On CNN, Attorney Confirms That Is His Client and Michael Brown in Surveillance Video (VIDEO) - Sean McBride
[King:] "The REAL QUESTION is not if Mike Brown stole cigars but if he had his HANDS UP when he was shot 4 times after already shot twice." - Andrew C (✔)
[King:] "Listen to this & read between the lines. The St. Louis County prosecutor said he didn't want to leak info on officer b/c it would taint jury Now, considering that they just leaked photos & video on Mike Brown & left out ALL details on Darren Wilson & autopsy, what's the agenda? The truth is NOT that St. Louis County wants to have an untainted jury. The truth is that they want them untainted for the officer." - Andrew C (✔)
[King:] "I've had 25+ diverse attorneys confirm that it is ILLEGAL, in all 50 states, to shoot to kill an unarmed, surrendered, injured citizen." - Andrew C (✔)
[King:] "WOW!!! The Police Chief JUST CONFIRMED that the officer DID NOT know that Michael Brown was involved in the store incident. AT ALL. Police Chief JUST CONFIRMED that the shooting officer, Darren Wilson DID NOT write his own incident report. INSANITY. Now, think of how OUTRAGEOUSLY DEVIOUS it was to release this store video THEN, 4 hours later, say the officer HAD NO IDEA it happened." - Andrew C (✔)
[King:] "5 attorneys just wrote me privately & said it was ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that the Police Chief ONLY released that video to taint public sentiment" [and look at you, Sean, buying right into it.] - Andrew C (✔)
Sean, you wrote "And what happened before the shots were fired?" Every eyewitness disputes that Brown initiated the confrontation. Every account says Brown was fleeing the initial two shots. And every account says the killing shots were to an unarmed, non-threatening Brown with his hands up. I literally cannot believe you're ignoring the most important details to get fixated on the irrelevant stuff. - Andrew C (✔)
Andrew: you have completely missed the point. I am not defending the Ferguson police or the shooting. What I am asking is if the aggressive criminal thug in that video may have been in a violent physical confrontation with Darren Wilson before the shooting. That is the only reason the video interests me -- it tells us a great deal about the character and temperament of Michael Brown.... more... - Sean McBride
Name all the eyewitnesses to the shooting -- who are they? -- with links to their reports. - Sean McBride
Again, you, Mr "Google it", are never gonna get links by asking. Except maybe - Andrew C (✔)
Let's not forget that you also bought into the birther's PDF analysis nonsense (LAYERS, y'all) and the bin Laden death hoax scam because you literally did not get how different camera lens focal lengths change composition. - Andrew C (✔)
Intellihub News: 'Michael Brown' Store Robbery! RAW Video Footage!: via @YouTube - Sean McBride
I never bought into any scam, Andrew -- but I do try to keep an open mind about controversies in which people emotionally jump to conclusions on the basis of few facts. Look at how quickly many people were insistent on dismissing the authenticity of this video because it didn't fit their predetermined narrative. Oops -- the authenticity of the video has been confirmed. - Sean McBride
"At the core of the Brown investigation are two competing stories: Darren Wilson, the police officer, says Brown assaulted him in his car and tried to grab his gun." - Sean McBride
"Dorian Johnson, the eyewitness and Brown's friend, says that Wilson grabbed Brown, Brown fled, Wilson shot, and then — crucially — Brown stopped and put his hands in the air, but Wilson kept shooting." - Sean McBride
How credible a witness is Dorian Johnson? Do other eyewitnesses back up his story? - Sean McBride
"This is what Ferguson police say occurred in the minutes leading up to Michael Brown’s death" Check out the photos. - Sean McBride
Top (most liked) comment at the Washington Post on this article: - Sean McBride
"While this doesn't excuse the killing, it certainly fleshes out more of who Michael Brown was, robbing and assaulting a cashier. Not quite the angel that I pictured when reading the earliest accounts of what a good boy he was. If this constitutes 'character assassination,' then what readers were initially told is pretty much the opposite, like 'character sanctification.'" - Sean McBride
"It's another reminder to me to let dust settle a few days before drawing any conclusions about events and people. Or maybe not drawing any at all, except that wow, our society still has a lot of ingrained problems to address." - Sean McBride
Comment: "Give the gentle giant a break. Who among us has not beaten a small Pakistani man for a box of cheap cigars?" - Sean McBride
Andrew -- read the full set of Washington Post comments, most of which are asking the right questions -- by people who don't yet presume to have all the answers. - Sean McBride
"Darren Wilson, the police officer, says Brown assaulted him in his car and tried to grab his gun." - unfortunately for Mr Wilson, that's also the standard cop lie that excuses shooting someone. And even if Brown had gone for his gun, which I personally doubt, what possible explanation is there for preventing a nurse from attempting to tend to Brown? - Andrew C (✔) from Android
You really have gone way over the edge when you find yourself suggesting that newspaper online commenters have the right idea, BTW. - Andrew C (✔) from Android
And again, the police department that told several different versions of this story TODAY, the one that charged an innocent man they beat with "bleeding on us", then straight up lied on the stand under oath about it ... To me, that's the side you should be skeptical of. - Andrew C (✔) from Android
Most of the Washington Post commenters on this article are showing more careful thought processes than other people I could name. As for me, I am skeptical of all the sides in this story -- definitely including the Ferguson police. But I want to hear Darren Wilson's story and the stories of other key players before coming to the conclusion that I know what really happened. - Sean McBride
The scenario that is being promoted in some quarters: Darren Wilson is a vile racist who shot Michael Brown to death for no reason other than Wilson is a hater and a coldblooded murderer. True? Maybe. But I doubt it. Does Wilson have a history of shooting blacks for jaywalking? Of any racist behavior at all? - Sean McBride
Also also, remember those reporters arrested in the McDonald's? They got assaulted unnecessarily, and the cops lied about them "resisting arrest" to excuse slamming them into Coke machines and doors. So that's another reason I think the Ferguson PD is lying about "going for his gun". - Andrew C (✔) from Android
Meanwhile there are matters of much greater importance that are going on all around the world -- including in the Ukraine, Gaza and Iraq -- and in all major American urban centers. - Sean McBride
"okay, it was messed up that this PD beat up an innocent man they wrongly arrested, then perjured themselves about it... and it was messed up that they lied about 'resisting arrest' when they arrested those reporters for no reason... but I bet they're on the up and up this time!" - Andrew C (✔) from Android
"Meanwhile there are matters of much greater importance" - then why are you wasting your limited time attacking the dead kid? - Andrew C (✔) from Android
"Attacking the dead kid"? This story is all over the global media and Internet tonight -- it caught my eye. That "kid" in the video is the one who was doing the attacking -- against a much smaller man in the commission of a crime. I rarely pay attention to stories like this -- but that video is really something -- so I posted it. And your first reaction was to deny the authenticity of the video. :) - Sean McBride
"I rarely pay attention to stories like this" - indeed, you seem to be ignoring every red flag about the PD that lied on multiple occasions about similar abuses of unwarranted police violence, and even in this thread. Maybe you should start paying attention. - Andrew C (✔) from Android
Idiots: [Talking Points Memo: Twitter conspiracy theory alleges #Ferguson robbery footage is months old] - Sean McBride
I am fully aware of police violence around the country and of the dangerous trend towards militarizing the police. I commented on this story because because this video caught my eye -- and it has caught the eye of the world, it turns out. People are discussing it. - Sean McBride
I'm specifically speaking about how this Ferguson police department has a history - from years ago up to this past week - of employing unwarranted violence and lying about what their victims did to deserve it. I'm saying that Wilson's conduct post-shooting is that of murderer who wanted to ensure his victim stayed dead. And most of all, I'm saying that every eyewitness account says Brown sure as hell wasn't going for Wilson's gun over the course of the last four or five shots. - Andrew C (✔) from Android
"What is strong-arm robbery?" "St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch gave the following definition for strong-arm robbery: "The use of physical force in a robbery. If someone is stealing, and another person makes an attempt to stop them, and then physical force is used to complete... more... - Sean McBride
The Ferguson police may be corrupt but I am not convinced yet that Darren Wilson murdered Michael Brown in cold blood with no motive other than the fact that Wilson is a violent racist. You have a particular narrative in mind and you seem to be inclined to believe that this is what happened. I guess we shall see what's what as more facts come out. - Sean McBride
"Michael Brown Killing: Police in Ferguson Fire Tear Gas Amid Looting" - Sean McBride
"Protests had started off peacefully in Ferguson on Friday night. Rev. Jesse Jackson linked arms with protesters, leading them in prayer and urging them to "turn pain into power" while fighting back non-violently, NBC Affiliate KSDK reported. Shortly after midnight, crowds got rowdier and looting began to break out, according to KSDK." - Sean McBride
"Missouri State Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson confirmed that there was looting overnight at a convenience store where police said Brown was suspected of stealing cigars." - Sean McBride
Expressing support for Michael Brown by looting the store he robbed through bullying and physical intimidation? -- priceless. - Sean McBride
Washington Post comment: "It establishes the fact that this wasn't some "gentle kid", just walking down the street minding his own business, as was originally claimed. He just committed a crime and was acting in a hostile and aggressive manner, which is more in line with the report that he physically assaulted the cop." - Sean McBride
One notices that those who dismissed the authenticity of this video, or who declared that it was irrelevant to understanding this case, are taking a terrible beating in social media this morning. They became too emotionally committed to a particular narrative to deal rationally with new information. A first-rate novelist might be able to capture the full complexity of this story -- once we know what that story is. - Sean McBride
Washington Post comment: "Sappho-- get a grip dude. I don't know what happened on the street, but I do know Brown was nothing but a 2 bit thug 10 minutes before he died. You know how many people have no sympathy for common criminals? You know who they have sympathy for? The hard-working shopkeeper Brown was robbing, shoving and menacing." That was my first reaction to the video --... more... - Sean McBride
"Anger boils over again in Ferguson" "Anger spurred by the death of a black teenager at the hands of white police officer boiled over again when protesters stormed into a Missouri convenience store - the same store that Michael Brown was accused of robbing." The operative term here is "irony." - Sean McBride
Maybe we can get Andrew to go a head and block me today because I have been looking at the facts we know so far now too. The witness has already admitted through his attorney that the video is in fact Michael Brown. The cop apparently did not know he was asking a robbery subject to get out of the street as he had not been dispatched to that scene, but was leaving a different call. Apparently Michael Brown knew he was a robbery suspect. That's all we know so far. - Eric Logan
no competent attorney would comment on his clients admissions. - p01yN0Nym0u5
Eric -- your mind works like mine -- collect all the facts and try to figure out what is going on before jumping to conclusions. It is amazing that so many people yesterday tried to dismiss this video as a hoax. Most people today are willing to entertain the *possibility* that Michael Brown tried to wrestle Darren Wilson's gun from him -- but, once again, one must be patient and wait... more... - Sean McBride
p01yN0Nym0u5 - DorianJohnson the witness already admitted it before his attorney could advise him apparently. At any rate you have a video and no competent attorney was going to dispute what is clearly proven already. Admit what you can not deny. - Eric Logan
how many times was #MichaelBrown shot? why is such a simple "fact" so hard to get straight? #Ferguson #FergusonHoax - p01yN0Nym0u5
p01yN0Nym0u5 -- what is the precise sequence of events that you think occurred in the confrontation between Darren Wilson and Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson? - Sean McBride
"But Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson said later in the day Friday that Wilson did not know Brown was a suspect when he stopped Brown and a friend. Asked why they were stopped, the chief said: "Because they were walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic."" Jaywalking? - Sean McBride
That I don't know. I have read that the first shot was fired in the car. I am going to wait and read the facts of the case as they come out. - Eric Logan from FFHound!
Perhaps more security videos will emerge that will answer some of these questions. - Sean McBride
The first comment in this thread -- real or not real? -- has been answered -- real. Andrew seems to have retreated to the position that the video doesn't matter -- but most Americans expressing themselves on the Internet today on the issue apparently disagree strenuously. - Sean McBride
By the way, you can follow this story in real time with Google News here: What is fascinating is to dig into the comments on the various news stories and see which way the wind is blowing. - Sean McBride
Mister H: Since Michael Brown was killed in Ferguson, at at least 5 people (ages 23,17, 30, 26 &16) have died in Chicago violence. No outrage? - Sean McBride
"Ferguson Protesters React to Michael Brown Robbery Footage" "Reason TV talked with protesters in front of a burned-out QuikTrip that looters destroyed earlier this week. Most saw little reason that the new information should dampen their outrage towards the police, and some even justified the destruction of private property as necessary and effective in garnering attention for their cause." [Interesting set of comments.] - Sean McBride
"Ferguson Store Owners Upset Over Looting" - Sean McBride
"Ferguson store looted early Saturday; Brown was accused of robbing same location" The main narrative on Michael Brown has shifted dramatically over the last 24 hours -- the looting of the robbed store has been the key turning point. - Sean McBride
Typical of trending comments across all platforms: "That video was a perfect precursor for one to understand what happened to that cop who now more than likely is looking like he was just protecting his own life from an out of control oversized thug who just robbed and assaulted a store owner with physical intimidation tactics twice. Do people really think this thug would have softened... more... - Sean McBride
Andrew missed the pivot: "Ferguson Looters Target Store Where Michael Brown Allegedly Stole Cigars" Per usual, check out the main themes of the comments. - Sean McBride
dutchsinse: "I did a full live stream while St. Louis / Ferguson Missouri melted down tonight." - Sean McBride
"Epic rant while I watched the LIVE DESTRUCTION of my home town, Ferguson Missouri. Tonight was a major letdown, rioters, looters, and hoodlums decided to destroy downtown Ferguson, steal from multiple stores...... WHILE LAUGHING and hanging out in the streets. Police did a wise thing (finally), they backed off and now showed the community what happens when NO police riot control... more... - Sean McBride
Some people have compared events in Ferguson to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict -- but one can't recall Palestinians ever looting and destroying their own businesses and neighborhoods. Why would anyone do that? The other difference is that Palestinians have been subjected to much worse violence than Ferguson residents -- see the latest stats in the Gaza conflict -- particularly the number of women and children killed. - Sean McBride
Curfew, state of emergency declared in Ferguson, governor says - Sean McBride
Andrew picked up his marbles. There is only one politically correct view on these matters. - Sean McBride
For most decent human beings, those four photos at the head of this thread will provoke disgust and revulsion. They will make no excuses for them. It beggars belief that this incident was a one-off. - Sean McBride
How many people, if they were legally carrying a firearm, would be tempted to use it in a situation like this? I know I would be tempted. I loathe violent bullies. - Sean McBride
We don't know yet if Michael Brown physically confronted Darren Wilson -- laid hands on him -- but if he did, the outcome wasn't surprising. Another question people should be asking: were Brown and Dorian Johnson stoned while they were robbing this store and walking down the center of a street blocking traffic? Was Brown stoned when he possibly assaulted Wilson? Dorian Johnson knows the truth on that score. - Sean McBride
DOJ didn't want the tape released we know that now too. The delay in its release are do to wrangling about it. - Eric Logan from FFHound!
Was Eric Holder behind the effort to hide the video? Why shouldn't the American public be informed about the character and temperament of Michael Brown? This strong-arm robbery occurred just minutes before the violent confrontation with Darren Wilson. Clearly Brown had the same mentality as the looters who have brought chaos to Ferguson in recent days. We have the right to know about these facts -- they are directly relevant to the case. - Sean McBride
The notion that the release of this video "assassinated" Michael Brown's character is laughable. Brown assassinated his own character. - Sean McBride
This case is teaching me a lot about Eric Holder. He agrees with the Black Panthers on many issues including that we are a “nation of cowards” on race and this country is fueled by racial animus. It's apparently baked into the constitution from his vantage point. Of course all of that was before the Panthers overtook a news conference to say this. - Eric Logan
Fuller Video the Panthers are Birthers also apparently. - Eric Logan
Some people are heavily invested in exploiting ethnic and racial conflicts -- some of them have even built their careers on exploiting these conflicts. Most of us are not bogged down in identity politics -- they are distractions from much more important issues. - Sean McBride
Live by identity politics, die by identity politics -- it's every group for itself. - Sean McBride
That's crazy shit right there. - Eric Logan
Some people will be asking: will Eric Holder try to control the investigation to arrive at a predetermined conclusion -- that Darren Wilson was a violent white racist who murdered Michael Brown in cold blood without provocation? The problem for that narrative is that Wilson's resume, as known so far, is more impressive than that of Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson. No wonder some people wanted to suppress the video -- which "besmirched" their character. Hell, any reference to that video must be racist. - Sean McBride
This just popped up too. ==> A Witness Conversation Unknowingly Captured at the Scene of the Ferguson Shooting. - Eric Logan
Eric: from your link: "Well, then Michael takes off and gets to be about 35 feet away. And, Darren’s first protocol is to pursue. So, he stands up and yells, “Freeze!” Michael and his friend turn around. And Michael taunts him… And then all the sudden he just started bumrushing him. He just started coming at him full speed. And, so he just started shooting. And, he just kept coming.... more... - Sean McBride
It's too bad that Andrew waded into this controversy without waiting for all the facts to develop. - Sean McBride
From 6:18 till 7:18 on the full video you hear the only actual eyewitness on this video clearly say that he thought the police shots where missing him after he turned around to re approach the policeman after the original confrontation. - Eric Logan
This is the kind of data that I urged Andrew to patiently wait for -- we will be seeing more, I am sure. - Sean McBride
My intuitive sense of things: from what I know of Darren Wilson so far, he does not come across as the kind of person who would shoot anyone in cold blood without a significant provocation. From what I know of Michael Brown so far, he comes across as the kind of person who would recklessly provoke a violent confrontation. All of these impressions may change, of course -- let's wait and... more... - Sean McBride
Regarding Dorian Johnson's eyewitness testimony -- he may be a less than credible witness /understatement -- or he may be telling the truth. The fact that he participated with Brown in a strong-arm robbery minutes before the incident, and that he was a friend of Brown, doesn't necessarily discredit his testimony. - Sean McBride
I have listened to that video three times now every other witness states somewhere on the video that they did not actually see it. The lady was in the shower when she heard it. The guy holding the camera says he knew it wasn't fireworks, but they all say how the kid was shot for no reason. Except the guy who gives a description of what he actually saw he thought the police where... more... - Eric Logan
Eventually all the data will come together and we will know what's what. - Sean McBride
Comment: "Well, this puts a different light on the whole "the cop just starting shooting him" story as well as why he was shot so many times. IF, Brown didn't stop after being shot once or twice the officer would have emptied his gun. Perhaps Browne was drugged up on something?" The autopsies should settle the drug issue one way or the other. - Sean McBride
It just occurred to me that Barack Obama and Eric Holder could take a major political hit if they are perceived as trying to influence the investigation in any way whatever. - Sean McBride
[AG Eric Holder asks for federal autopsy on Michael Brown] - Sean McBride
[Eric Holder ‘concerned’ over Ferguson] - Sean McBride
[Feds order a third autopsy of Michael Brown] - Sean McBride
A *third* autopsy? Perhaps after a fourth or fifth autopsy Eric Holder can make the "facts" fit whatever narrative he has in mind. He has already tried to censor the strong-arm robbery video. - Sean McBride
It is beginning to look like this entire investigation is going to be all about Eric Holder -- and his boss. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Now We Know Why Ferguson Police DELAYED Release of the Mike Brown Robbery Video: O-B-A-M-A -
"The video (below) showing the ‘strong-arm’ robbery of Swisher Sweet cigars by Michael Brown blew the entire Ferguson, Missouri controversy wide open yesterday. It shredded the media/activist narrative that Brown was a saintly “gentle giant”, completely innocent until a racist cop cut him down in his prime." - Sean McBride from Bookmarklet
"The video so shocked Brown’s defenders that they refused to believe it, claiming it was ‘Photoshopped’, even as the Brown family attorney admitted it was in fact him." - Sean McBride
"Now we know why they took so long to release it: because Barack Obama’s Attorney General told them not to. That’s right, Eric Holder pressured the Ferguson P.D. all week to hold back the robbery video, nor even tell anyone about it, terming it too “inflammatory” to be seen." - Sean McBride
"It was only after Obama pressured Democrat Governor Jay Nixon to take the Ferguson police off the case and put the state Highway Patrol (with its Black chief) in charge, that the fed-up, betrayed department finally released the truth about Mike Brown — angering Obama and Holder." - Sean McBride
True or not true? - Sean McBride
"Stunning. The nation’s chief law enforcement official trying to obstruct justice of a local police force in order to enforce his and Obama’s racial narrative. Will Holder once again escape any consequences of his actions? As one commenter on our YouTube video remarked: “Trying to hide exculpatory evidence is illegal.”" - Sean McBride
Is Jay Nixon's script being written by Barack Obama and Eric Holder? - Sean McBride
Obama may be making some incredible political missteps here, if new information about the shooting doesn't break in the way he expects. - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Dan McDermott: Here is Officer Darren Wilson's version of the Ferguson, Mo. shooting according to a woman claiming to be a family friend
""It's been really hard to be quiet because I do know his [Officer Wilson's] version of the story and I haven't... It seems like everyone is only talking about the other side and I understand they haven't really gotten to hear his side and I have been afraid to say anything. I think we all are, all of his friends and his family but I think we need to put out his version of events so maybe people can consider them as the truth, if nothing else." - Sean McBride
""[Officer Wilson] said that they were walking in the middle of the street. He rolled his window down and said, 'Come on guys. Get out of the street.' They refused to and were yelling back and we're almost where we're going and there was some cussing and he kept rolling up and he pulled over and I believe at that point he called for some backup but I'm not sure but I know he pulled up... more... - Sean McBride
""Then Michael takes off with his friend. They get to be about 35 feet away and Darren [Wilson], of course protocol is to pursue. So he stands up and yells, 'Freeze!' Michael and his friend turn around and Michael starts taunting him. 'Oh, what are you going to do about it? You're not gonna shoot me.'" - Sean McBride
""And then all of a sudden [Michael] started to bum rush him. He just started coming at him full speed so [Officer Wilson] started shooting and he just kept coming. So [Officer Wilson] really thinks [Michael Brown] was on something because he just kept coming. It was unbelievable. And so the final shot was in the forehead and he fell about 2 or 3 feet in front of the officer." - Sean McBride
""So that's why the stories are going around that he was shot execution style. I think some people saw the shot to his head. Of course ballistics will prove that he wasn't shot in the back like other people are saying, quote unquote 'witnesses.'" - Sean McBride
"That's his version of what happened." - Sean McBride
Does this sound plausible in light of the facts known to date? -- you be the judge. I don't know. - Sean McBride
Some of the terms that have worked their way deeply into the public conversation and consciousness so far: 1. bullying 2. bum rush 3. intimidation 4. looting 5. mobs 6. strong-arm robbery 7. thug - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Jay Nixon: Ferguson robbery video had an "incendiary effect" - CBS News -
Comments across all Internet platforms are going overwhelmingly *against* Michael Brown, Dorian Johnson and the looters -- the comments on this CBS article are typical. But the lead stories on mainstream media outlets are not reflecting this reality. Why? - Sean McBride
Sean McBride
Ferguson in real time with Google News:
Awesome news tool. - Sean McBride
Eric Logan
BBC - Blogs - Adam Curtis - WHAT THE FLUCK! -
BBC - Blogs - Adam Curtis - WHAT THE FLUCK!
Every month or so there is a new scandal - mass snooping by the NSA, allegations of price-fixing by giant energy companies, major banks corruptly rigging interest rates, giant modern bureaucracies like Serco and G4S ripping off the taxpayer, children's entertainers from the past charged with sexual abuse. But these stories never seem to add up to a bigger picture. They are isolated events . And our reaction is always the same - shock and horror, and then it all subsides and we are ready to be shocked and horrified when the next scandal comes along. It's like a ritualised dance - or the surprised kitty. - Eric Logan from Bookmarklet
This is a really good article from Adam Curtis. - Eric Logan
Eric Logan
NPR Is Laundering CIA Talking Points to Make You Scared of NSA Reporting - The Intercept -
NPR Is Laundering CIA Talking Points to Make You Scared of NSA Reporting - The Intercept
On August 1, NPR’s Morning Edition broadcast a story by NPR national security reporter Dina Temple-Raston touting explosive claims from what she called “a tech firm based in Cambridge, Massachusetts.” That firm, Recorded Future, worked together with “a cyber expert, Mario Vuksan, the CEO of ReversingLabs,” to produce a new report that purported to vindicate the repeated accusation from U.S. officials that “revelations from former NSA contract worker Edward Snowden harmed national security and allowed terrorists to develop their own countermeasures.” - Eric Logan from Bookmarklet
NPR is much superior to CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, ABC News, CBS News, etc., but too often it disappoints. - Sean McBride
#HRC Watching Hillary inept tone deaf campaign for President I'm upgrading my Biden bet to even money! #repeating2008 #notinagoodway
# Hillary Clinton: descriptions 1. AIPAC tool 2. blaring 3. blatting 4. bloodthirsty 5. bombastic 6. boring 7. coarse 8. corrupt 9. crude 10. dried up 11. dull 12. in questionable health 13. mediocre 14. neocon 15. not that bright 16. old 17. past her shelf life 18. sociopathic 19. stale 20. stodgy 21. tired 22. tone deaf 23. Wall Street tool 24. war harpy 25. warmonger 26. without accomplishments - Sean McBride
There were good reasons why Hillary Clinton lost the nomination in 2008 -- and there are even better reasons for her to lose the 2016 nomination. - Sean McBride
In terms of political talent, Hillary Clinton is no Bill Clinton. Bill is a .400 hitter -- Hillary a .200 hitter at best. - Sean McBride
Elizabeth Warren easily could crush Hillary Clinton in 2016 by using Barack Obama's 2008 playbook -- run to her left, especially on foreign policy. But the powers that be will do everything in their power to prevent Warren from running. They are counting on Hillary Clinton to go to war against Iran. - Sean McBride
Everything about Hillary Clinton reeks of inauthenticity. - Sean McBride
Andrew C (✔)
Article: George Will confirms Nixon's Vietnam treason | OpEdNews -
"The new release of extended versions of Nixon's papers now confirms this long-standing belief, usually dismissed as a "conspiracy theory" by Republican conservatives. Now it has been substantiated by none other than right-wing columnist George Will. Nixon's newly revealed records show for certain that in 1968, as a presidential candidate, he ordered Anna Chennault, his liaison to the South Vietnam government, to persuade them refuse a cease-fire being brokered by President Lyndon Johnson. Nixon's interference with these negotiations violated President John Adams's 1797 Logan Act, banning private citizens from intruding into official government negotiations with a foreign nation." - Andrew C (✔) from Bookmarklet
Geez. - Stephen Mack
Eric Logan
Obama’s $11 Billion Arms Deal With Terror-Sponsoring Nation of Qatar. -
Obama’s $11 Billion Arms Deal With Terror-Sponsoring Nation of Qatar.
Apaches and Javelin defense systems are heading off to Qatar as part of our wonderful relationship with the terror-sponsoring nation that also happens to share close ties with Hamas and Al Qaeda. The weapons are valued at $11 billion. - Eric Logan from Bookmarklet
Regarding the agenda of this publication: [Google; israel] It has repeatedly sided with the Israeli government against the American government. - Sean McBride
rotflmao.....this is a zio and right wing propaganda site. - American
I don't know much about the site a friend posted the article pointing out the circular nature of arming Qatar who funds Hamas while we also arm and fund Israel. - Eric Logan
Vampire Hunter DYSP
KKK Raising Money for Police Officer Who Shot African-American Teen | Hatewatch -
"The one thing the racially charged and besieged city of Ferguson, Mo. does not need or want to add to the combustible mix of rubber bullets, snarling police dogs and clouds of tear gas that have filled its streets for three days is the Ku Klux Klan. But the Klan –– desperate for publicity and any opportunity to spread hate and terror –– is climbing atop the powder keg that Ferguson has become following the police killing of an unarmed college-bound black teenager last Saturday." - Vampire Hunter DYSP from Bookmarklet
"The South Carolina-based New Empire Knights of the Ku Klux Klan says its Missouri chapter is raising money for the still unidentified white police officer who shot and killed Michael Brown, 18, who was scheduled to begin college classes this week. “We are setting up a reward/fund for the police officer who shot this thug,” the Klan group said in an email. “He is a hero! We need more... more... - Vampire Hunter DYSP
Vampire Hunter DYSP
MRAP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -
MRAP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP; /ˈɛmræp/ em-rap) vehicles are armored fighting vehicles used by various armed forces, whose designed purpose is surviving improvised explosive device (IED) attacks and ambushes. The first development in armored vehicles designed specifically to counter the land mine threat were initiated during the Rhodesian Bush War; existing technology was subsequently inherited (and matured) by the South African Defence Force after 1980." - Vampire Hunter DYSP from Bookmarklet
"The deployment of MRAP vehicles has not been without criticism. The most common are concerns about the high cost ($17.6 billion program), potential logistical difficulties due to high fuel consumption and varied designs, a greater disconnection between troops and the local population due to their massive size and menacing appearance (conflicting with current counter-insurgency (COIN)... more... - Vampire Hunter DYSP
"Police departments inside the U.S. are acquiring MRAP vehicle through the 1033 program, which allows the Defense Department to redistribute equipment it no longer needs to state and municipal agencies. Rather than buying a new vehicle, which would cost $535,000-$600,000 to procure, some police departments like the Ohio State University Police Department have picked up surplus MRAPs... more... - Vampire Hunter DYSP
"Since becoming available in the summer of 2013, 165 MRAP vehicles had been acquired by police and sheriff’s departments. The American Civil Liberties Union has concerns of "increasing militarization of the nation’s police," and that the military hardware could escalate violent situations. Many vehicles have been obtained by rural police with few officers or crime. Police have rejected... more... - Vampire Hunter DYSP
Sean McBride
Trita Parsi: Wondering why the excessive police violence? Here's a guess: #Ferguson police chief got training in Israel... #Gaza
Scott Horton: Israel trains your cops to treat you like occupied Palestinians. You still love them. Because TV says you should. - Sean McBride
Anonymous: If anyone missed this: #Ferguson Police Chief Tim Fitch Studied Counter-Terrorism in Israel with IDF - Sean McBride
Vampire Hunter DYSP
"The shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown sparked often violent protests, looting and rioting across Ferguson, Missouri, over the past three days. Some commentators have now dubbed the suburb "Fergustan" on social media, suggesting the area now resembles a "war zone". Eyewitnesses say Mr Brown raised his arms in an attempt to surrender before he was shot by an officer, but police say there was a struggle. As local and county police have taken to the streets to contain the unrest, many have questioned whether their show of force has been too excessive." - Vampire Hunter DYSP from Bookmarklet
Our local police force just purchased several military surplus vehicles ... I guess because they were cheap. But one does wonder if they arent overkill. - Shannon - GlassMistress
Cops with tanks is why non-violence is not never winning. Cops don't understand or respect non-violence. They understand guns and the application escalation of violence to subdue/win They only respect other guns se Cliven Bundy. - WarLord
What's a gun gonna do to an MRAP? They'll just run you over. - Victor Ganata
Cops don't respect guns either. If you're black or brown and armed, they won't even hesitate to pull the trigger. It's just that they're not (yet) willing to gun down white people in broad daylight. That's the real reason they didn't touch Cliven Bundy. - Victor Ganata
I attended my "police riots" in my youth This is not a flashback that I'm enjoying. But I don't see Walt Street or the cops volunteering to give back their power..... We really have no choice in the matter any more - WarLord
Well, it's going to take more than just guns. - Victor Ganata
Yes. That's why you law abiding citizens should surrender all your guns. So the government can protect you. - Eric Logan
Hey, go ahead and fire your guns at cops if it gives you a hard on. I'm not going to stop you. I'm just trying not to get myself killed, is all. Some people are more entitled to Second Amendment rights than others. - Victor Ganata
Only if you're not a white rancher, mooching off federal land. After all, wouldn't want to give the thugs any ideas that they have rights or anything. - Vampire Hunter DYSP
Let's face it. None of this would be happening if Michael Brown had actually pointed a gun at a cop (or if the Ferguson PD had planted a gun on his corpse). He'd just be written off as some criminal. And maybe that's what some people want by pushing guns on disenfranchised people so hard: an excuse for cops to gun them all down without any remorse or any worries about the bad PR. - Victor Ganata
Actually I think everyone is entitled to their second amendments rights until they commit a crime that strips them of their rights. The MRAP's where a little late in my estimation. Now they are being used on peaceful protesters. I am not pushing guns on anyone I am just not for giving up rights. I don't live in a hypothetical world either. - Eric Logan
That everyone has the same right to the Second Amendment is most assuredly entirely hypothetical. - Victor Ganata
Not where I live it isn't. Georgia even has an open carry law. - Eric Logan
Well, I'm sure law-abiding armed PoCs never get shot to death by cops in Georgia, then. - Victor Ganata
It's kind of hard to tell because apparently they don't really want us to know. This is all I could find they do keep very good statistics on policeman that get shot though. Police Involved Shooting Statistics: A National One-Year Summary. - Eric Logan
I wonder what the odds are that an armed law-abiding PoC who shoots a corrupt cop trying to arrest/kill him on trumped-up charges will be lauded as a hero and not a, you know, cop-killing murderer? - Victor Ganata
There was a cop-killing criminal, Lovell Mixon, who murdered four Oakland police officers before being shot himself. He was raping, drug-dealing, violent scum. Yet there are some locally who see him as some kind of hero. There's even a movie defending his actions. There are dozens of perspectives out there. Some are really fucked up. But people believe them. - Starmama from FFHound(roid)!
True, some really messed-up people get lionized, but however way you slice it, the odds that a PoC shooting at cops comes out alive—justified or not—seem fairly slim. - Victor Ganata
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