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Off the shores of Alexandria, the city of Alexander the Great, lies what is believed to be the ruins of the royal quarters of Cleopatra. A team of marine archaeologists led by Frenchman Franck Goddio made excavation on this ancient city from where Cleopatra, the last queen of the Ptolemies, ruled Egypt. Historians believe this site was submerged...
Jason Huebel, RudĩϐЯaЯïan, Mark Krynsky and 9 other people liked this
love those pics!
- Joe Silence
Fascinating stuff
- M F
Lost cities hold a special place in our imaginations
- RAPatton
jerry and yasin ghasemi liked this
10 Principles of Beautiful Photography - http://www.stuckincustoms.com/10-prin...
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Alexander Arsky, ka3drr, Daan and 72 other people liked this
HDR is good when used sparingly, like any other trick. Unfortunately, some "photographers" believe HDR all the time is good HDR.
- Chris Luckhardt
I've tried HDR myself a few times and found it just wasn't for me. I think other people can use it masterfully though. I think it's best used sparingly by most but I think some who are really masters of it like Trey can pull off more dramatic HDR versions of photographs. Unfortunately way too many people are not as eloquent as a select few who can pull it off IMHO.
- Thomas Hawk
HDR isn't my thing, but but I've been following Trey's work for a long time - he's one of the people who's really working hard at using the technology to make art. He has a firm perspective on HDR's place in the photography world, and a serious thought process with regard to his work. All these things contribute to the quality of his images, whereas it appears most other people doing HDR mistakenly think pushing a boring image through complicated software while crossing your fingers is art.
- Tom Harrison
Looks great when it's done right, that's for sure. Way too much work for me though. :-)
- Jeremy Brooks
For a moment "turn off" your brain to the colors and range in Trey's work and consider his images at a more basic level. He has some seriously well composed, masterful photographs. Now think of all the pictures of household objects you've seen shoved through Photomatix and posted on Flickr. There's what sets him apart.
- Tom Harrison
I cannot agree with this post at all. :( I'm sorry and I feel bad for saying anything. But HDR just isn't good photography to me. It's overprocessed and loses any reality of the photo. Plus, "get rid of your toy camera"? Come on. I love using my iphone camera and if the photo only pleases me, that's all I really care about. But, to each his own.
- Lise
@Lise: Photos aren't realistic, HDR or not. If anything, HDR is a little more realistic. Normal photos have washed out skies, clipped highlights, and black shadows, none of which are realistic. cameras only capture a fraction of the dynamic range our eyes see, and our brain does a kind of tonemapping to construct our field of view - HDR comes closer to representing that.
- Eric P
That said - there's still a garbage in, garbage out rule. Taking a poorly composed photo and transforming it into an oversaturated halo-ridden HDR doesn't make it any less of a crap photo, even though a lot of people seem to think it does. A good HDR is well blended, but more importantly a good HDR starts as a good photo - well composed and correctly exposed.
- Eric P
I generally shoot baseball so I have little opportunity for HDR. Some of it is beautiful, it's at a point now, however where it's overdone.
- Bastard Operator From FF
@Eric P: see, I don't feel that way. I've never seen an HDR photo I've liked. It's just not aesthetically pleasing to me. But again, that's my opinion. I guess I was mainly irked that the post highlighted those HDR photos in the article about "beautiful photography" as if all that processing makes it beautiful and urged the reader to get rid of their toy camera. Honestly, I'd love to see that photo of the Amish boy as a Polaroid or lomo. But that's just me.
- Lise
It's possible to get some great results with HDR (or DRI - dynamic range increase) in some situations. But most of the HDR photos on flickr are just kitschy and over processed (tone mapping)...
- Samuel Kreuzer
See whereas I can't stand Polaroid and Lomo - I mean talk about low quality and unrealistic :). I do agree that it's strictly a matter of taste (and I even agree most HDR photos you see around are crap), I just don't like the "unrealistic" criticism for the reasons I cited. Photography isn't realistic, so we shouldn't use that as a metric for judging it.
- Eric P
Actually let me amend that. Most *photos* are crap. Most of what's posted to Flickr is, in fact, crap. I guess what irks me is that when someone posts a crappy photo taken with a Canon 5D Mark II, no one says that the Canon is crap - instead they say the photographer doesn't know how to use it. But if someone posts crappy HDR, people blame Photomatix, rather than the photographer using the tool poorly.
- Eric P
@Eric P: I guess we won't be going to any photography exhibits together. heh And I've seen plenty of photos that are realistic to me. I've looked at photos and felt I could smell the flowers, or felt the wet rain, or heard the noisy traffic in the background. That's real enough for me.
- Lise
@Eric P: again, this is my opinion. and again, that's your opinion. But I am stating that I don't like HDR at all. It's a specific photo process that I don't like. You can't compare that to a Canon camera. And I adore flickr and love so much of what is posted there.
- Lise
@Lise The same argument about HDR being cheesy could be applied to the thousands of young photographers shooting with lomos, polaroids and expired film because it's "retro". A cross processed picture of a flower is still a picture of a flower.
- Tom Harrison
Re: Real photos. What is real? My photos show you things as I saw them... as I want you to see them. I think someone once said something along the lines of "the only way to take an honest photo is to get rid of the photographer".
- Tom Harrison
@Tom: You photos show things as *a camera* sees them, which is neither how our eyes and brains see them nor how they really are. What irks me is that when most people say "This looks realistic", they really means "This looks like what I think a photograph ought to look like.", which has nothing to do with reality. To the degree that you can call a photo realistic, a tonemapped HDR comes the closest.
- Eric P
First rule: don't be dogmatic about anybody's "rules." Second: Don't call your own photography beautiful. Third: Any overused technique, including HDR, will become a gimmick after a while. Fourth: The universe of photographic possibilities is vast, and is certainly not limited by your gear, whether it be a pinhole camera or latest digital device. Fifth: Play, play and play some more. Life is short, make yourself smile.
- Bill Koslosky
@Eric P A photo that's deliberately framed and hand-processed is far from being simply "what the camera saw".
- Tom Harrison
@Bill Koslosky: you know what? Yes. Thanks. *hugs*
- Lise
I don't think I called any of my own photos beautiful. If anybody wants to see crap I've got a ton.
- Tom Harrison
Bill, some great points there! Though, why can't we call our own photography beautiful?
- Kol Tregaskes
HDR is good if you don't over do it. It looks awful when this happens. If you do it right you can create some amazing images. I've tried a few and, although not perfect, I can see it will be a useful tool once I get the hang of it.
- Kol Tregaskes
@Tom @Eric P: @Bill Koslosky has said it best. So I'll keep liking the photos I like. You'll keep liking the photos you like. And people will keep producing the photos you like and the photos I like and so I'm going out now to wander Austin cause it's a gorgeous day and take photos with my iPhone because that's what makes me happy. :)
- Lise
He did sum it up well. By the way, I like many times more lomo/polaroid/film effect photos than I do HDR. I was just offering a counter point.
- Tom Harrison
@Tom: Agreed, sort of. A camera captures a fraction of the range of tones and colors present in a given scene. Certainly you can do post processing and the final published photo isn't necessarily just what the camera saw any more. But my point is that camera only "sees" a thin slice of what our eyes do, and do none of the automatic processing that our brain does in processing the raw data from our eyes.
- Eric P
voting: presidential election - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
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WordPress › MediaRSS « WordPress Plugins - http://wordpress.org/extend...
Palak Mathur, jerry, Tom Parish and Thomas Hawk liked this
via Chris Nixon (http://twitter.com/chrisni...)
- Bryan Villarin
Birthday Gift #2 - Three Equipment Rentals - http://blog.epicedits.com/2009...
JA Castillo and jerry liked this
Free lens rental anyone? Go and get it!!! http://blog.epicedits.com/2009... #photog
jerry liked this
Running train - http://www.dahlstroms.com/2009...
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edythe, Adriana E. Reyes, cecily and 4 other people liked this
nice
- Michael W. May
Commentary: Pregnant woman asks for help, gets ticket - CNN.com - http://www.cnn.com/2008...
Tyson Key, Mark, Internet Strategist and 13 other people liked this
"So they pull up behind a state trooper to ask for his help in getting to the hospital. Do they get his help? They do not. They get a ticket instead, for $100, and have to wait while the cop finishes the ticket he was already writing for someone else. And after this woman in labor and her husband have been made to cool their heels and have been slapped with a $100 dollar ticket -- after all that -- the trooper tops it off by asking Jennifer Davis, the woman in question, to prove she was pregnant."
- Thomas Hawk
from Bookmarklet
Sometimes you wonder if Harold and Kumar got it right
- Shevonne
damn! when your wife is in labor, that ought to be the one time that you get a free pass on the traffic tickets.
- Thomas Hawk
original article here: http://www.boston.com/news...
- Thomas Hawk
wtf?
- Mona Nomura
What assholes!
- Adriana
That's awful. There is an exception to every rule.
- Michelle Martinez
That's insane.
- David Bisset (sn)
Poopercop ought to be forced to grind his badge into dust with a cheese grater.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Bad time to run into a black and white thinker.
- Internet Strategist
Reading the original story, it seems to me that the cop was an ass, but these people were also rather stupid. She wanted to give birth 30 miles away, but when she went into labor they didn't set out to drive until her contractions were 5 minutes apart EVEN THOUGH IT WAS RUSH HOUR. They took their time arranging things, had they hurried then they would probably not have been in a panic on the highway. They are all irate now, but these people could have avoided all their problems by planning for things.
- Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Ladybug Heather, ♥patricia♥, Penguin It's Cold Outside and 10 other people liked this
C.U.T.E :)
- directeur
This pic is SO COOOL! Georgia is a cutie pie
- Josh Haley
and there ya have it folks!
Steve Garfield, AJ Batac, Kamran and 173 other people liked this
And here I thought it wasn't about race! LOL??????
- Akiva Moskovitz
haha very good - Nice pic btw :)
- Ray Marr aka Knatchwa
Awesome! That pic is full of WIN!
- Ladybug Heather
HAHAHAHA
- Anna Haro
Whatever happened to having Presidents with beards and muttonchops?
- Rob Haas
Where did ya find it CeeBee? Is there a High Resolution version?
- Uncle CW™
Higher res: http://friendfeed.s3.amazonaws.com/ab6a3d6...
- Brandon Titus
LOL it wouldn't so funny if it wasn't so sadly true
- Jim Goldstein
Robert, clean shaven faces are considered more trustworthy in the modern aesthetic. Hence most heros in movies are clean shaven and villains have facial hair or scruff.
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
NICE
- Carmen - Happy 2010!
Cool!
- Farshid
Thanks Brandon
- Uncle CW™
I'd like to see what this looks like converted to black and white. =D
- jerry
would love a credit on this...anybody?
- martin ollman
I need a framed copy of this in the worst way.
- Jason Toney
This is cool!
- Steve Chou
Damn "Liking" it, I'm "feelin it"
- Terence
Muttonchops are the best thing ever. I also like how Obama is smiling (very well illustrated I think).
- Will Higgins™
I give him 6 months before he has white hair
- Amit Morson
amit he already has a few shades of grey, which i don't remember him having even a year ago. its incredible what this kind of job does to a person
- Cee Bee
Very nice.
- Anthony K. Valley ©
Cee Bee: What's your source for this image? The world wants to know.
- Anthony K. Valley ©
a friend sent it to me. i've since found the source. there's an even higher resolution version on the site: http://www.patrickmoberg.com/
- Cee Bee
Awesome! Thanks
- Anthony K. Valley ©
That just makes me tear up to see. Thank you!
- Karen Mohler
lol, didn't see this Ceebee apologies
- Zee.
this is being talked about in the FFundercats Podcast http://www.ffundercats.com/2008...
- johnpiercy
Flickr Censors Popular Flickr API Developer, Developer Threatens to Kill Flickr Application FlickrLeech This Week - http://thomashawk.com/2008...
Michael Hocter, Danielle Closs, Uldis Bojars and 14 other people liked this
It is interesting to see how Flickr applies its standards.
- Robert Owens
What a disgrace.
- Chris Nixon
Flickr Leech is back. http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Russellreno
looks like it's back up now, will try to get more of the story from Houser. Good thing Houser had the weight of his application behind him to get Flickr to uncensor his account. Imagine if he'd only been a regular old user with no recourse, like the thousands of other users that Flickr censors every year.
- Thomas Hawk
actually the censorship issue's not resolved at all. Houser just had a change of heart about witholding the app.
- Thomas Hawk
from Houser: "I've decided to put FlickrLeech back online. I've received too much support over the few years it's run to, in good conscious, pull it from people who use it. There have been enough infractions this week on what we can and can't see, so I won't add to it. I just will ask that you consider the censorship issues Flickr has to deal with - which, granted, are numerous and not easy to manage the traffic of - and urge Flickr to spend some time and money making the system better."
- Thomas Hawk
Point very well made TreJack
- Chris Nixon
This is one of the primary reasons that I keep my Photos at Smugmug. If I had sign up for another online photo account it would be with Zoomr rather than Flickr
- Roberto Bonini
Houser's suggestions are very well thought out as well. An automatic system would help tremendously and help reduce this kind of crap.
- Juan Pablo González
Here is a post about Flickr deleting photos. (Edit NSFW )http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Russellreno
note, Russell's link is NSFW.
- Thomas Hawk
Let it go! The "Flickr censors" argument is getting old. Flickr is one of the best photo sharing sites out there. It was not meant to be a political stage to stir up discontent. If you do not start fights and stir up trouble, there would be no reason to censor. Any photographer that has a brain would have backed their photos up. If you want a place to put up your political statement, then go buy a domain and post them on your own site. Good Lord!
- Paul L. McCord Jr.
Paul, I believe that artistic expression ought to preserved. I don't want a Flickr where people can't make political statements with their art. I want people to be able to have a wide latitude to express themselves creatively. I think that's important. It's discouraging to me to see instance after instance of censorship take place on Flickr. If you don't want to hear the political statements of course no one is forcing you to look at any particular user's photos.
- Thomas Hawk
As for me though I'll continue to rail against censorship at Flickr where I see it, and hope that it has some effect at reducing the censorship there going forward. Flickr is perhaps the single most important resource for the new art to be presented to the world. This is very important to me personally and philosophically.
- Thomas Hawk
Thomas -- art in your mind is anything that anybody wants to display? No limits, no boundaries?
- Brian Sullivan
Censoring 100% of someone's photos, even ones that are clearly in no way offensive is not a good policy for Yahoo to maintain. I hope that the political pressure put to bear on them encourages them to change this policy and the way that they let low level employees at Flickr subjectively decide by fiat what should be seen and what should not be seen.
- Thomas Hawk
Brian, I do believe in limits and boundaries. And I have no problem with Flickr marking something that contains nudity as an unsafe photo. I do have a problem though with low level Yahoo employees marking 100% of a user's photos unsafe when many, many of those photos are very much G rated and perfectly fine for everyone and anyone to consume.
- Thomas Hawk
I also have a problem with Flickr deleting entirely people's photos when they get into disagreements with them over whatever the case irreversibly. Flickr threatens to delete people's accounts if too many people are blocking them on Flickr. I think that's idiotic. Flickr's community manager Heather Champ is currently blocking me on the site. Does that mean that I should be at risk of having all of my photos deleted. These sorts of policies need to be reviewed and changed in my opinion.
- Thomas Hawk
So much of Flickr's censorship policies are just not thought out and are wrong. Why for instance should Germans not be able to see a nipple in a fine art photograph even when they confirm that they are over 18, an adult and want to see such content? Commercials on German TV show breasts. It's ludicrous that Flickr goes to such extents to try and prohibit what everyone in Germany, for instance, can see.
- Thomas Hawk
So what you want are better censorship policies and procedures. What for instance is different at Zooomr
- Brian Sullivan
Brian, at Zooomr we don't censor. We just let everyone post whatever they want as long as it's not illegal (child porn for instance). If you don't want to see someone's photos then you can choose not to go to their photostream. But yes, I'd like to see better censorship policies at Flickr. I think as the most significant steward of the new art that they owe this to culture.
- Thomas Hawk
What laws apply? Ones at the viewer's and/or poster's location? If for instance child pornography is not illegal in the poster's location can they post and view images depicting it? What about DCMA -- isn't that a US only law?
- Brian Sullivan
Brian, U.S. laws -- as a U.S. company Zooomr falls under the DMCA and honors it. Likewise with regards to child porn. US law precludes that and as such we will not host or allow users to host that sort of content irrespective of the laws where they live and we don't.
- Thomas Hawk
So Zoomr hosts and displays "legal porn" (legality as defined in the US)? Are displays of nipples illegal in the US? Your comment on Germany earlier was just a red herring?
- Brian Sullivan
yes, Zooomr hosts and displays "legal porn." Users can upload whatever they want to their accounts as long as it's legal in the U.S. Displays of nipples are not illegal in the U.S. My comment on Germany is not a red herring. If Flickr deems a photo as "not safe," including, for example, a nipple, then German users are not allowed access to those photos.
- Thomas Hawk
I think getting into the business of determining what is fine art vs. what is porn is a slippery slope. One person's artistic nude is another person's porn. Nobody is forcing anyone to look at someone else's photos at Zooomr. it's a choice. It's easy enough not to follow someone's stream at Zooomr if you object to their content.
- Thomas Hawk
Does Zoomr enforce age restrictions on viewing "legal porn"? Isn't there some US law requiring that?
- Brian Sullivan
Definition of porn - http://tinyurl.com/6oed6k. For me "models" with no clothes on in itself is not porn as it does not stimulate me in a sexual way though it is subjective.
- Rob Brammeld
Brian, there is no law that I'm aware of that requires us to force age restrictions for people accessing Zooomr.
- Thomas Hawk
Back when there was the uproar about introducing video to Flickr (which *still* has me pissed off), the Flickr people made it very clear that they don't see it as an art/photography site, but rather a site that primarily serves people who want to upload bad snapshots of their kids. Which, I think, explains their antipathy towards art and artists as exemplified by their censorship policies. They really need to get their heads out of their asses when it comes to that.
- Eric P
This is what I mean about the German thing. http://www.flickr.com/photos...
- Thomas Hawk
Flickr sets the entire account to unsafe because (1) do you really expect them to go through hundreds or thousands of photos to do something the photographer him/herself should have done? They just don't have time for that. (2) Flickr wants to check whether you are willing to flag your content correctly after you got the warning. That's why you have to go through your photostream yourself, flag everything correctly and then ask Flickr for an account review. IMHO that's a perfectly good process.
- Ole Begemann
Btw, German users can see the nipples (which, according to Heather, should be flagged 'moderate'). "Only" 'restricted' content is blocked.
- Ole Begemann
I have to say I agree with Ole here - this is no more censorship than the MPAA rating system for movies. Anyone who is willing to click on the "show me anyway" button gets to see whatever they want (just as giving a movie an R rating doesn't prevent an adult from seeing it). The German case is different entirely - and presumably a response to local laws - though I'd be interested if anyone has any more insight into that.
- Jan Dawson
Jan: German law requires content that is unsuitable for minors to be protected with an age verification system. Since Yahoo/Flickr seem to be unwilling to invest in such a thing they chose to block such content altogether. It's not aimed at users from Germany, though, but rather at everyone using a yahoo.de account (many Austrians, Swiss, etc.). I'm in Germany but I can easily sign up for a yahoo.com ID and have no restrictions on Flickr. They just want to ensure Yahoo Germany won't run into legal problems.
- Ole Begemann
I have to wonder, though, how difficult it really is to set up age verification – especially for pro account holders who pay with their credit card.
- Ole Begemann
There is more hunger for love and appreciation in this world than for bread. - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
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CNN, ABC, NBC, FOX, and Comedy Central have called it for Obama. If the news media gets to vote, I think that's a majority. Congrats Obama!
jerry, Mona Nomura, Morton Fox and edythe liked this
Comedy Central is the real authority.
- Fa La La La Lindsay
I couldn't get my wife to let me switch over to it.
- Jordan Hofker
I don't have cable :(
- Stolee
Nice fall selection, Jordan!
- jerry
Thanks!
- Jordan Hofker
HELP - Missing 14 year old girl | rob's place - http://rob.orangejack.com/2008...
jerry, Thomas Hawk and Ontario Emperor liked this
Please, my friend Geno's daughter has been missing since Saturday. She's 14-year old McKenzie Kenzie Church from the upstate in South Carolina
- giovanni gallucci
Hutch Carpenter, jerry and Mike Fruchter liked this
Use a Swear Word in a Private Email at Flickr and You Get Your Account Deleted - http://thomashawk.com/2008...
Jason R. Hunter, carwax, Becca and 41 other people liked this
The power these services hold over us is extreme. It's one of the major downsides of the Web 2.0 services.
- Robert Scoble
Personally I wish all of these services had a clear policy of what will get you kicked off, and how they'll handle it. I also wish that they would NEVER delete previous work. They should just lock you out of your account if they don't like you, but leave your work up there (and the work of the community).
- Robert Scoble
This really sucks actually. Pierre complained about their threat to him and they simply deleted him. I've put thousands and thousands of hours into my Flickrstream. It would be devastating if they did this to me. This really was uncalled for. On digg here: http://tinyurl.com/4hmtvz
- Thomas Hawk
Flickr has really went downhill since the Yahoo purchase
- John Duff
that's really sad. Flickr... Where have you gone?
- ※Fu※
I don't agree with Flickr deleting the account but that email he sent was a bit much. That in itself is abuse, albeit to staff not users, and is against the terms of use.
- Andrew Smith
Andrew: I agree with you. If I were at Flickr I would have "fired" Pierre too (locked him out of his account, and told him he's not welcome on Flickr anymore). But I would NOT have deleted his work, or deleted the work of the community that built up around his work.
- Robert Scoble
I'm wondering what it takes until people, and I mean masses, stop using services that have theis kind of (miss-)management. I guess things like these only come up if you know someone like Thomas Hawk, etc. I don't want to know how often and what else goes wrong behind the scenes, but still people keep suing these services. Like Robert said, their power is extreme.
- Holger Eilhard
At the same time, I have to agree with Andrew that his reply was too much. How about asking in a polite way for the actual reasons behind this first and not just screaming out loud like there's no tomorrow?
- Holger Eilhard
Give him a "time-out"
- Andrew Smith
The title to your post is a bit misleading. I can see where you are going with Flickr deleting the account for numerous blocks being a bit over the top, but please remember that the people answering these emails are people too, and speaking to them in the way that your friend spoke to them is unacceptable. His account wasn't deleted for cursing, in the text of the email you posted he is being completely abusive. Why would Flickr continue to do business with an obviously abusive user?
- Aaron Krug
On the flip side, I have seen Pierre curse like a sailor at Heather and the rest in Flickr Central which is in public and they have had to ask him to tone it down...so there is a history there and it goes back a few years.
- cmiper
Robert Scoble won't even approve comments he doesn't like on his fastcompany.tv site, and I seem to remember when you were all up in arms a little bit ago about being treated disrespectfully at SF MOMA. Why should the folks at Flickr suffer the abuse of this man? Because he is your friend? Your friend should've acted like the adult he wanted to be treated like and I am willing to bet things would've gone very differently.
- Aaron Krug
@cmiper That's just what I told to a friend via twitter: "I'm wondering what else might be behind the story. There's always two sides [of a story]."
- Holger Eilhard
The author of the recent article "Nasty As They Wanna Be" (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin...) tosses around various nonsense such as whether excluding racist activity is discriminatory against racists, and whether banning harassment is harassing the harasser... but you can have your account deleted for using bad words in private? Either Flickr's policies are made of hot air, or there's more to this story. Also, poor choice of words on Pierre's part.
- Tom Harrison
The worst thing is that even after years of controversial account deletions, the Flickr backend still has no undo button. Even if they wanted to reinstate Pierre's account in hindsight, they can't do it if what they say on the help forum is true. They culd give hime his old username back but all the photos, comments, faves: irretrievably gone.
- Ole Begemann
If Pierre was such an active user then he knew of this flaw and was tempting fate and got what he deserved. He used words I won't even say out loud in that email. I find it ironic that his whole point was that it should be ok for others to block him and he wasn't doing anything that was abusive and was completely abusive in doing so.
- Aaron Krug
@Ole: Yip. This black and white behaviour on Flickr's part isn't good. They should be able to lock someone out, but only being able to delete the work of someone forever can't be the right way to handle these kind of things.
- Holger Eilhard
Pierre's response was a bit much. But that's him. He's Pierre. He's well known for who he is by Flickr and their staff. I don't think his response was right. But I think that total account deletion takes it a bit too far. He should have gotten a warning or maybe been locked out of his acct for 24 hours or something. But total account deletion in this case without warning is too far.
- Thomas Hawk
You have to keep in mind that this is not about simply starting over or the $25 for a Pro account. Very active Flickr users put thousands and thousands of hours into their accounts. The punishment doesn't fit the crime in this case. They should reinstate his account.
- Thomas Hawk
Facebook does the same thing for a lot less than swearing at staff.
- Robert Scoble
If there is another side to this story I haven't heard it. I've seen all of the emails involved in today's incident and published the main two relating to the case. If there is more to the story though Flickr is certainly welcome to chime in.
- Thomas Hawk
@aaronkrug2 He might have known. But Flickr only got de-brained recently. I had my brush with Heather too but that was before the Yahoo merger. Have nothing bad to say about her. Outcome was fair. Facebook suspends you as punishment for having too many 'friends' but at least they can open your account again after a grace period or your friends standing up to them.
- Frank Jonen
Thomas. He was responding to a warning, albeit to something different, however it was a warning nonetheless. Why should the Flickr crew believe he would react any differently if they warned him for being abusive? Would that not have elicited an even worse response? You say he was well known and he knew them well, so he knew the stakes. Maybe next time he will act like an adult when he comes across something he doesn't like. And when you say a bit much you are being misleading again. That email was terrible.
- Aaron Krug
What defines a Swear Word? Howard Stern would not last long on Flickr.
- Michael Fidler
It sounds like the only mistake the Flickr crew made was to let this guy go on acting like this for so long and make him think that kind of thing was acceptable in the first place, something they obviously just corrected.
- Aaron Krug
I am guessing that they took his email as abusive, regardless of who knows that it's "Pierre being Pierre". There is only so much that a business has to take from a customer before they decide that they no longer need or want that customer. As mentioned before, he has gone off using the same language in the past at flickr staff in the public forums, check the "ho ho ho hat" thread drama or the "flickr censorship" threads, he has called Heather out directly and used every profanity at his disposal.
- cmiper
Thomas, you say that Flickr only got de-brained recently, however your description of your friend sounds like he has been acting unacceptably for some time. You say that your experience with the same person was fair and acceptable, do you think it would have been the same way had you chosen to use the language your friend did?
- Aaron Krug
I don't know thomas, with all due respect, i'm not sure what your friend was expecting. it shows very little respect for the flickr rep and also paints a pretty clear picture of why MAYBE this guy has been blocked. i think many reasonable people would have done the same thing. no one needs suffer abuse. I have received many different notices about complaints about my flickr due to my...
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- merkley???
THIS IS STOOOOPID... come'on flickr what gives?!! Go DIGG this story now! http://tinyurl.com/4hmtvz I am sorry folks but i have NO tolerance for small brained BS like this... these companies are way too draconian sometimes... lighten up already!
- Susan Beebe
Thomas, cmiper and merkley are making a lot more sense than you are on this one. No one should be asked to take that kind of abuse at all, and you are asking the Flickr guys to take it and issue a warning? You didn't like being treated rudely at SF MOMA, what about this is different? Your friend should've acted with a lot more maturity than he chose to show
- Aaron Krug
Aaron, I wouldn't use that language with Flickr staff but I guess I don't read the email as badly as you do. I've seen plenty worse in Flickr forums. I think Flickr needs to have thicker skin. I'm not defending his email. I'm just saying that deleting thousands of hours of someone's work is too big of a response for Pierre's typical Pierre hot headedness. And it is total crap to threaten someone with deletion simply because too many people block them. I've had plenty of people block me.
- Thomas Hawk
And we're not talking about AT&T telling you to go to Sprint because they don't like your language. When Pierre's account was deleted he lost *thousands* of hours of work. That's just too big a penalty for that email.
- Thomas Hawk
Thomas, you and I are in complete agreement that it is total crap to have an account deleted just for people blocking you. You and I are in complete agreement there. However where we differ is I answer customer service emails for a living and can tell you that I am a smart, polite, upstanding person who will not be addressed in this manner. Ever. Your only reasoning is that it's 'typical Pierre hotheadedness'. So because he does it all the time it's ok?
- Aaron Krug
Aaron, how is this different than the SFMOMA? I was kicked out of the SFMOMA for doing something completely unoffensive and allowed, the Flickr employee was not. Your analogy doesn't make sense on any level. Too very different situations.
- Thomas Hawk
It sounds like from the other comments as well that it was not just this email, this was just the straw that broke the camel's back. He has been directly abusive on numerous occasions to the very proprietors of the service he claims to value. If he valued it as much as he said he did he would've thought twice before choosing his course of action.
- Aaron Krug
And why was he abusive previously? Because he didn't agree with Flickr policies? Its a big internet, if he didn't like it no one was making him stay. Its not like you can go into McDonald's and speak to them like this because they don't sell Whoppers and then expect them to still serve you. I'm with Flickr all the way on this one.
- Aaron Krug
Re: [Robert Scoble: "I wish all of these services had a clear policy of what will get you kicked off, and how they'll handle it."] Flickr's Community Guidelines are actually pretty clear that your account can be deleted without warning. Problem is, most people never read them. ["I also wish that they would NEVER delete previous work. They should just lock you out of your account if they don't like you"] That is a great idea, Robert. It would certainly give the community a more permanent feel.
- Ole Begemann
re @thomashawk "punishment should fit the crime" well, i'm not sure how i'd react because it's never really happened, but if someone went off like that to me in my living room, i think throwing them and all their stuff out on the street would be a fair and expected move. gently guiding him onto a small chair in a corner for a time out might be a little condescending to everyone. you...
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- merkley???
Whether it was the straw that broke the camels back or not I still think that deleting thousands of hours of someone's work forever is not an appropriate response. Maybe lock him out of the account for a cooling off period, sure. Do that a few times and then kick him out of the site. Maybe it's hard to understand because for most people it's just an account whereas for some of us it represents something with far far more of an emotional investment.
- Thomas Hawk
I'm with Aaron that Pierre's email was reason enough for much more than a warning. I really like Robert's approach of locking someone out of their account. Permanently, not just for 24 hours or so. Just don't delete their history.
- Ole Begemann
Gotta say I disagree with how Flickr threatened to delete the account because people were blocking him. Without more info, it really doesn't seem like an intelligent reaction. After Pierre's reply, I can't say I blame them for not wanting to deal with him any longer. However, I think locking him out would have been better than deleting his account.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
Pierre is a loved character on Flickr despite his hot headedness. He's very ingrained in the community and has been for years. Personally I think many of the characters on Flickr are what makes it interesting. Mr. Chalk, Billy Warhol, there have been plenty of others who have big personalities and take things too far. But Flickr should have more tolerance for their characters before taking such draconian action here. It was a nuclear response and too much for the crime.
- Thomas Hawk
And it is super lame that you can get your account deleted for too many people blocking you, which is the issue that started this all off in the first place.
- Thomas Hawk
it's hard to have pity for a man who burns down his own house, whether he knew the potential of the match he was striking is another story. the bigger shame is when the house was filled with other people's stuff and that all went up in smoke as well -- but even then, disappointment should be pointed at the drunk guy with the gas can and that should be kept to a minimum since it's all backed up www.archive.org -- i'll stop now.
- merkley???
i think blocking just sets off the investigation which in this case was a very short one with considerably strong "craaazay guy" evidence being found in the first interview. -- ok stopping for reals --
- merkley???
Someone needs some people skills. Maybe Pierre should swallow his pride, write them a nice email, explaining why he lost his mind, and maybe get his stuff back. Peter's using THEIR service, he's a guest there. They should and can do whatever they want. If all you guys don't like it, take your wallets with you to another service. That'll show Flickr!
- Todd
More conservative bullshit. Everything has to be clean and tidy and fit in nice little boxes. I thought Fluckr ;) was about promoting creativity, not stifling it. Creativity isn't always PG-13, it comes rated R, and sometimes NC-17. And the beauty of blocking is just like changing the channel and not watching. It's not an attack on the artist, just a way of not watching his work because you chose not to. Isn't choice the foundation of a free society?
- DAVE ID
Whatever happened to all the Data Portability stuff that was all the rage beginning of this year?
- Jesse Stay
I still am in complete agreement that you should not be able to have your account deleted for too many people blocking you. The problem here is, Pierre ruined any point he was trying to make by acting like a foul mouthed child. Thomas when you say the punishment should fit the crime I agree, but the crime here is different than you are claiming. Pierre chose not to act like the adult he was claiming to be, and chose to be completely abusive towards the staff. I can think of no situation where the language
- Aaron Krug
he chose to use would be acceptable. So in response to the way that he acted, not the fact that he had too many people blocking him, they deleted his account. This is something I feel they are well within their rights to do. Pierre was a very active member of the community and had just received a message warning of account deletion, did that not even cross his mind as a possible outcome for his actions? He needs to learn that if you try to bully everyone you meet in life, sometimes you end up losing.
- Aaron Krug
While I don't agree to the email he first received about being deleted because so many people blocked him, his response was way over the top.
- Becca
Jemm, R. Ferguson, Tanath and 15 other people liked this
How was lunch, everyone?
- Josh Haley
from Bookmarklet
CUTE!!!!!! Lunch was ok: airport food. =/
- FFing Enigma (aka Tina)
Granola cereal w/ skim milk. nom!
- Josh Haley
Sushi, YUM
- David Billingham
hee!
- edythe
Aw man, I want sushi. :(
- Josh Haley
Just had a HUGE Chef Salad for brunch. Complete with iceberg lettuce. Gettin' my midwest on, yo.
- Lisa L. Seifert
Started to crash. Refilled diet coke. Ready for battle.
- Josh Haley
Bubo ketupo - http://www.flickr.com/photos...
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what a beauty!
- jerry
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