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Alexander van Elsas › Likes
@vanelsas that is a great open letter to to @ericschmidt very politely emphatic and well reasoned. kudos. http://news.ycombinator.com/item...
Alexander van Elsas liked this
An open letter to @ericschmidt : http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009... (via @vanelsas) ... That's impressive English for a Dutch guy ;)
Alexander van Elsas liked this
An open letter to Eric Schmidt - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Alexander van Elsas liked this
The human factor in social media (revisited) - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Alexander van Elsas liked this
Alexander van Elsas liked this
Oh crud. Rahsheen and I made Mo's list on Twitter of "suspected cyborgs".
Steven Perez, rowlikeagirl, Michael W. May and 30 other people liked this
Since you also have twins I was sort of suspecting there is actually 4 of you Louis? ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
You think I don't know? Puhleeze. How can a mere human manage children, x^infinity * socnets, blogging and who knows what else seemingly simultaneously *without* sleep? And Rah? Seen that mans multiple talents and abs of steel? Yeah :)
- Mo Kargas
I know you know, Mo. You will be assimilated.
- Louis Gray
Phew, was hoping you'd say that
- Mo Kargas
LOL!
- Rah-PM 2012
Ha!
- Micah
I LOVE MO!
- Anika
And he has an all-Scoble "Scobleizer-List" with just 2 members, both of course named Scoble. ;)
- Dennis Jernberg
LOL I LOVE the bunneh list.
- Penguin
haha
- Shevonne
What the ...?
- Steven Perez
RT @vanelsas: I do not recommend that you read this: http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009... <BTW Follow this guy
Alexander van Elsas liked this
To be free we need to break free of web 2.0 thinking - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Mark Trapp and Alexander van Elsas liked this
"It’s hard to understand why people tend to feel that their online lives somehow are disconnected from real-life....We need to get out of this confining web 2.0 definition and build new business models. Business models that are not based upon network effects and hogging user data. We need user-centric business models. And with that we will see user-centric services appear. Services that have a clear and transparent business model. Services that generate revenue by delivering user value. Services that do not depend on customer lock-in but on user freedom. Services in which the balance of power has shifted from the company that exploits to the user that receives value. A new balancing act."
- John E. Bredehoft
Personally, I try to always remain aware that anything that I share is out there forever for view by everyone. Yet, even though I try to be cautious, I'm sure that an intelligent data miner can establish the links between my various data points and find out things about me that I never intended to share.
- John E. Bredehoft
Read this post and then think again. So much can be derived from our actions. Scary stuff ;-) http://www.nytimes.com/2009...
- Alexander van Elsas
Privacy, Our Expectations Need to Change - http://foolswisdom.com/privacy...
Lora Lufark, ThirdEye, Playing Well with Others and 4 other people liked this
"I’ve written on similar topics before: http://factoryjoe.com/blog... http://factoryjoe.com/blog... http://factoryjoe.com/blog..."
- Chris Messina
The capability for openness is paramount, but openness needs to be a choice, and varying kinds and degrees of privacy need to remain choices as well. Technology shouldn't dictate cultural norms, it should support them even as they evolve. The younger demographic is not unconcerned about privacy as previously thought (http://www.danah.org/papers... is a good read), and adults have a variety of needs and thoughts on it too. It's not at all black and white.
- Tinfoil 2.0
I'd agree with that sentiment. At the same time, holding on to the old just because it's familiar doesn't make any more sense than technology dictating our behavior. None the less, tradition and the design of technology artifacts always play a role in determining our behavior — and in this case, I think embracing radical transparency now is a way to prepare for what I hope will be a more subtle future.
- Chris Messina
What do you mean by "radical transparency", Chris?
- directeur
The biggest problems (among many) that I see with radical transparency is that individual citizens (whose rights should be most important) are at a severe disadvantage. Governments and corporations have much more information and power than individuals do. The US is at the freer end of the scale, despite inherent structural issues and events of the past decade. But even if we assume that...
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- Tinfoil 2.0
Schneier has commented numerous times on too much transparenyc (e.g., http://www.wired.com/politic...). These are very real risks and indicate that we should proceed cautiously. At the very least, the desires of those who want to be transparent shouldn't obviate the rights and choices for those who don't want that.
- Tinfoil 2.0
the old adage "data is king", why do you think Google is aiming at organising an Exabyte of data all about us? Personally, I don't think people have a right to see every aspect of my life. Certainly entities who hold a certain degree of power over a populace should be a lot more transparent than they currently are (government), but for the individual, the option for privacy is an...
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- alphaxion
While I am sympathetic with the views expressed here, I don't see any solutions that would actually work in the marketplace. People are happy to hand over whatever data is requested of them to Facebook, Google, Apple, and whoever else asks in order to get better service or connect with their friends, family, and contacts. While "radical privacy" might be a fun topic to debate, the reality is that a new world is upon us, and it requires taking a different approach entirely.
- Chris Messina
Or, perhaps phrased differently, what advise would you give a 16-year-old (boy or girl) who is just now thinking of creating a public Facebook page for themself?
- Chris Messina
Chris, the first thing that's wrong with FB is requiring people's real names in the 1st place. I know you're against nicknames and imvho you're wrong. Do you think that people like _why are trolls? Or don't you see millions of jerks proudly displaying their real names, phone numbers and adresses? Personal information aren't a guarantee of a civilised behavior. Moreover RFCs are here for a reason. See RFC8155 section 4.1.2 (last point) http://www.ietf.org/rfc...
- directeur
@ChrisMessina "what advise would you give a 16-year-old (boy or girl)"? Just one but very good one - don't use FB, just do not! LOL
- Lora Lufark
@directeur: I think you don't give me enough credit for my perspective! Pseudonyms and anonymity are important in any social system — and I support their appropriate use. Assholes operate under both real and fake names. That said, my argument all along has been to provide MORE options in the marketplace, including using your real identity if you choose, AND consolidating your identity...
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- Chris Messina
Chris, I wouldn't say "People are happy to hand over whatever data is requested of them" - I'd say they often obliviously or grudgingly hand over data, not realizing how extensive their dossier is or how it may get used in the future. We're not talking about radical privacy either, that describes a hermit with little human contact who gets what he needs with nothing but cash and barter...
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- Tinfoil 2.0
I think the topics that you're raising are useful and worthwhile — and definitely help to illuminate the space about which we're discussing. As an interaction designer, though, my challenge is to surface the kind of controls you're advocating for in a way that doesn't completely bog down the user experience and inhibit one's ability to deal with the cognitive load of confronting such...
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- Chris Messina
All social media ultimately will need well developed private and public channels. It's not an either or situation. Financial and medical data already demand privacy. As social media integrates into corporate workgroups, other kinds of privacy will be required. Driving a car is a difficult user experience, but if the gain is worth the pain, the user will engage.
- Cliff Gerrish
Perhaps... but it's hard to imagine how we'll get from where we are to that situation — when there are so many benefits to increased openness and transparency. It's not that I disagree — but having worked on standards, it seems a significant challenge to get the entire industry to move forward, in concert.
- Chris Messina
wow you talk about social media state today, as if it were eternal. my god, this is an illusion... when people will have the tools readied to talk and exchange between them, on secure links or protocols, and not having the necessity to engage conversation in a centralized data cloud, your actual discussion on transparency will be totally pointless... good bye data, good bye Web number...
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- Thierry Lhôte
For instance, data server logs concerning users on Facebook are for no technical use, so why Facebook do not give their control to the users, it is technologically possible... this is not a question of technology, it is a question of greed, man. So when you are saying in one of your articles that transparency is inevitable because of technology, please, do not try to get me wrong, do...
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- Thierry Lhôte
I have no idea what you just said. Could you sum up your argument in, say, a single sentence just so that I don't get you wrong?
- Chris Messina
I believe there are 2 distinct yet related issues. 1. User data gets commercially exploited, often without the user realizing this. 2. The user tends to have only 1 choice, join in and get exposed, or stay out. The business model fuels public sharing and commercial exploitation of data. There is no reason why this couldn't be changed both with technology and business models. I Agree...
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- Alexander van Elsas
Yes Alexander made the point, contrary to what you are saying in one of your 3 articles linked above, we are not made transparent by the happening of technology. But because of political and business decisions, reflected in technology. There is absolutely no need, technologically, to be exposed to transparency, like we are now. Except if people like you continue to write that it is a...
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- Thierry Lhôte
And secondly, this type of centralized social media we have now, is perhaps not here for long. The day we will have applications that permits to talk and exchange without passing by a centralized point, then, all this social media phenomenon, we know now, will be busted. And happily, guys like Chris Messina will stop to tell tired and wrong thoughts from the "necessity of transparency".
- Thierry Lhôte
Thierry, you're a bit tough on Chris, and I personally don't think that it's fair. He has been/is working on making the web better for the user. While I don't like it, I do agree with Chris in thinking it is very difficult right now to redo privacy in a way that would put the user in control. There are 330M people on Facebook and many more in other services that basically say that they...
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- Alexander van Elsas
Alexander, please do not tell people that it is technologically difficult to erase server logs concerning users, tell them he truth, not poitical or business hypocracy. Secondly, you say there are 330 M of users on Facebook, but how many of them are really users, are really active ? so you are vehiculating figures impossible to verify, but you continue to expose them. Thirdly, everyone...
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- Thierry Lhôte
We are taking about different things. The difficulty isn't a technical difficulty. Go to Mark Zuckerberg and ask him to completely throw out any existing business model he has and implement privacy (including the switch that protects the user from Facebook). He would never do that. The difficulty is the Facebook business model and the ecology behind it. Failing to acknowledge this, or...
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- Alexander van Elsas
Ha here we agree completely Alexander ! it is a question of business decision, not technology. But if you read Chris articles linked above, we do not get that impression, thanx for the clarification.
- Thierry Lhôte
There is an interesting series on NPR right now that discusses this very topic. I'd recommend taking a listen: Part 1: http://www.npr.org/templat... Part 2: http://www.npr.org/templat... Parts 3 and 4 will be out tomorrow and Friday I think.
- Chris Messina
My turn : Two important scenes - first here the problem the exploitation of data mining by greed and the risk of convergence of interests between politics and business : http://www.youtube.com/watch... - second, why Web 2.0 or social Web movement continue to avoid conversation on the Freedom principle http://www.linux.com/archive... and for the video of the event...
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- Thierry Lhôte
I take it you're a big fan of Eben Moglen?
- Chris Messina
Nope, I am not a big fan, but the FSF here has a perfectly valid point. If you want another source explaining this phenomenon, who is not Moglen nor Stallman or other guys, Wu or Lessig or Schneier etc. just an outside point of view, check this NYT article : http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...
- Thierry Lhôte
An excerpt of this article : Peter Swire, an Ohio State law professor who served on the Obama transition team, offered one reason it might be difficult for the administration to find its voice on privacy. There is a split, he told the conference, between the typical view of privacy among technology experts and the emerging view of people brought up in the social networking, Web 2.0 world. “The Web 2.0 movement is opposed to the privacy movement,” he said.
- Thierry Lhôte
you can also check Eric Raymond http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=932
- Thierry Lhôte
Thanks for these links. I'm curious — I wonder who would consider themselves in the "Web 2.0 movement" (besides, of course, Tim O'Reilly).
- Chris Messina
I do, Chris. More or less.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
But why does the "web 2.0 movement" have to be inherently anti-privacy? I understand the profit motive, but leave enough real hooks for those who want more control of their data... or the government will certainly step in and do it for you. We're talking about basic legally-protected rights... Radical Transparency is dead, get over it.
- Tinfoil 2.0
I wrote a blog post about it today that touches that subject. It's not as much web 2.0 as the most commonly used business model that makes privacy hard to implement/defend right now: http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
- Alexander van Elsas
To be free we need to break free of web 2.0 thinking - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Alexander van Elsas liked this
To be free we need to break free of web 2.0 thinking - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Alexander van Elsas liked this
To be free we need to break free of web 2.0 thinking - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Alexander van Elsas and Niki Costantini liked this
Social Search Is Useless Without Context - http://regulargeek.com/2009...
Alexander van Elsas liked this
Speaking of Noise - really good post by @vanelsas http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009... on the potential "plumbing" probs of Google Wave.
Alexander van Elsas liked this
Why Google will win: entrapment in the iPhone is a failing long-term strategy - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
siva s, Harold, Rah-PM 2012 and 2 other people liked this
There's no entrapment here. The analogy is completely wrong. The iPhone actually set the standard for connectivity to the Network. This 'silo' argument belongs in a museum.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff, what do you mean? The iPhone sets a standard but you can't call it open, can you? Apple controls everything, from what apps get into the store to what Mobile carrier I "get to choose".
- Alexander van Elsas
Are there people you can't call? Web sites you can't visit? Music you can't listen to? How many apps are in the appstore? How many are added every day? Are their WebApps you can't develop and use? The issue of the telecom cartel is entirely separate-- Apple completely changed the dynamics there. Without their pressure there would be no Google phone.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff -- there are websites you can't visit -- ones that use Flash would be at the top of the list. There are apps that I can't develop and use -- why are you limiting your argument to "Webapps"? But even there webapps that use Flash are eliminated.
- Brian Sullivan
Cliff, Apple dictates the market, the technology and the carriers. Yes, they brought a nice product, but to me it doesn't weigh up to the ability to have choice.
- Alexander van Elsas
from iPhone
I've ensured I have choice btw, in case you wonder why I use an iPhone.
- Alexander van Elsas
from iPhone
I have issues even calling people because I'm forced to use AT&T.
- Jesse Stay
Why not just unlock the iPhone? There's no denying the iPhone and the App store have advanced the state of the mobile market even if there are a few things to dislike about the pipeline. If they spur Nokia et al to outdo them with Android stuff then consumers win.
- Daniel J. Pritchett
As long as the golden cage is shiny enough we'll stay inside.
- Todd Hoff
Daniel, the fact that you have to hack it, and constantly fight Apple in doing so does not make the iPhone open either. An unlocked iPhone is not an Apple product. If Apple were to encourage it that would be a different story.
- Jesse Stay
I certainly don't expect many people to unlock, and I'd love to see something that was just like the iPhone but fully open. I'm pretty happy with what I've got now though. Maybe if I could get the same thing but pay $20/mo. for the service rather than what I'm paying now...
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Flash? Is that really an issue? What is it that you feel that you can't choose? You can certainly choose a phone other than the iPhone. There are a lot of open source computing choices that are unusable. You have choice, but you don't choose it. Open largely means poor user experience.
- Cliff Gerrish
I'd love to see Flash on the iPhone... hello to every video service other than YouTube!
- Daniel J. Pritchett
I'd love to see video independent of Flash. What exactly is open about that?
- Cliff Gerrish
"Open largely means poor user experience." Uhhh yeah, we call that the web.
- Matt Terenzio
Matt, which "open" phone do you recommend?
- Cliff Gerrish
Wrong. :)
- Louis Gray
Cliff, it has a standard browser it's cool in my book. Though it is a little odd that audio gets redistributed (does it?). They do want to keep you in iTunes.
- Matt Terenzio
Louis, no, you're wrong :)
- Jesse Stay
The iPhone will "fail" if Apple sticks with AT&T too much longer.
- Spencer
Matt, I think you can directly access MP3s in the browser. But the issue is that in the long term, Apple is 5 steps ahead. The rest of the industry, including the beloved "open" phones are struggling to replicate year 1 of the iPhone.
- Cliff Gerrish
I had a Sidekick II back in the day that I loved, but it was a closed system. Apps had to come from their store and they didn't have what needed. I switched to a Windows device because I could put whatever I wanted on it. A few years down the line and we're still dealing with the same crap.
- Rah-PM 2012
Yeah, the AppStore only has about 91,000 apps with more than 2 Billion downloaded. Pretty tough to find what you need.
- Cliff Gerrish
I think the "openness" issue only matters to a small subset of potential users, at least as it pertains to functionality. Do you honestly think that with 85,000 apps on the device already regular users aren't able to do mostly what they want with the phone? Apple will eventually rectify the iPhone's one meaningful liability - AT&T- by launching devices for other networks. It's not a question of if, but when.
- The original Kevin
Or what Cliff said.
- The original Kevin
Looks like there are about 22,000 active publishers of iPhone apps - a closed, elite group: http://148apps.biz/app-sto...
- Cliff Gerrish
22,000 active publishers is an elite group? How many does WinMo have?
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Sorry, I forgot to append the obligatory emoticon ;-)
- Cliff Gerrish
Daniel, I believe Cliff was being sarcastic. Time to recalibrate your sarcaso-meter
- The original Kevin
>:|
- Daniel J. Pritchett
I don't know about others, but in the last several days I'm seeing more comments (less likes, but more comments) than before on FriendFeed. Pretty cool to see the arguments here!
- Jesse Stay
No doubt, it's because friendfeed is dead. Or the Walrus is Paul...
- Cliff Gerrish
Also, the openness of Android is subject to the whims of the carriers. If you honestly think Verizon will allow any and all apps to be used over their network, let me just refer you to the entirety of their history up this point. Ain't. Gonna. Happen.
- The original Kevin
My point is a lot simpler. Apple makes a great product. There is NO reason except commercial why they shouldn't unleash it to all users across all mobile carriers. And they have a dodgy reputation when it comes to approval of apps to their store. Apple should focus on the product only AND let everyone participate, including users that do not want AT&T. No matter how you look at it. They...
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- Alexander van Elsas
Great article by @vanelsas Why Google will win: entrapment in the iPhone is a failing long-term strategy: http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Alexander van Elsas liked this
@vanelsas I completely agree with you on that one. I love my iPhone but it could be so much better if Apple weren't such a dictator...
Alexander van Elsas liked this
Why Google will win: entrapment in the iPhone is a failing long-term strategy - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Alexander van Elsas liked this
Why Google will win: entrapment in the iPhone is a failing long-term strategy - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Alexander van Elsas liked this
Heftige maar interessante dicussie! Ik zelf ben het er niet mee eens omdat: 1. Apple weet wanneer het succes afneemt en kan stoppen op het hoogtepunt om iets revolutionairs te maken wat het kunstje van de iPhone herhaalt. 2. De iPhone is nu zo'n voorsprong dat voor mij keuze niet nodig is, persoonlijk natuurlijk!
- Coen Meerbeek
Er komt altijd wel weer iets beters/mooiers/ De vraag is, vertrouw jij op 1 bedrijf die alle innovatie alleen zal moeten orchestreren, of vertrouw je op de ecologie die Android opbouwt ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
Why Google will win: entrapment in the iPhone is a failing long-term strategy - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Alexander van Elsas and Andy Roberts liked this
Why Google will win: entrapment in the iPhone is a failing long-term strategy - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Marcel Weiß, Alexander van Elsas and Roberto Bonini liked this
One of the few Social Media guys who understands dangers of social media: http://twitter.com/vanelsas
Alexander van Elsas liked this
@vanelsas just commented on your blog, Wave is still misinterpreted since it has so much eye-candy, hardly any attention on the protocol
Alexander van Elsas liked this
It's hard for folks to look past the initial demo. That isn't what makes Wave important imo
- Alexander van Elsas
Glubble for families 2.0.4.9: new release, big improvements: http://tweetalink.com/go/zG66
Alexander van Elsas liked this
Macro Linz » The Point You’re Missing About Google Wave - http://macrolinz.com/macroli...
Tinfoil 2.0, Daniel Rowley, Tapio Kulmala and 8 other people liked this
"Now that I’ve had a chance to play with Google Wave a bit and to hear what other people have to say about it I’ve noticed that a lot of people are disappointed and it seems to me that they have missed the point... People aren’t getting it right now because they’re expecting the beta to all be about polishing the User Experience. But it’s not about polishing: it’s about defining."
- Lindsay
from Bookmarklet
I just pressed the publish button on my blog when I saw this come by. Good post, and very similar to my view on Wave ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
Yeah, just read yours, Alexander. We seem to be on the same wavelength (I couldn't resist the pun... I think that means it's time for bed!).
- Lindsay
LOL, a wave joke ;-)
- Alexander van Elsas
yeah, a bad one too! ;)
- Lindsay
Nicely written, Lindsay.
- Anne Bouey
Thanks, Anne!
- Lindsay
Really really loved this article, Lindsay! I was rather gobsmacked by all of the Wave haters last week too. You did a great job of outlining the reasons folks should still be excited. Architecture is important too! I shared this on FF and Twitter btw
- Daniel J. Pritchett
Thanks, Daniel! Glad you enjoyed it.
- Lindsay
Google Wave is a plumbing project for the web « @vanelsas - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Alexander van Elsas liked this
really need to think about this one.
- Jill O'Neill
On brand consistency and BHAGs - http://factoryjoe.com/blog...
Alexander van Elsas and scott anderson liked this
Fully agree, wrote a very similar post earlier. too much focus on the current demo. Instead we should look at the way the technology will change the way we communicate. And it will be open-source, federated and not destiny based. It has the potential to become a new communication layer across services.
- Alexander van Elsas
via:@vanelsas: new blog post: Google Wave is a plumbing project for the web: http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009... http://twitter.com/vanelsa...
Alexander van Elsas liked this
Google Wave is a plumbing project for the web - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Alexander van Elsas liked this
Google Wave is a plumbing project for the web « @vanelsas - http://vanelsas.wordpress.com/2009...
Alexander van Elsas and chaz2b liked this
"This doesn’t come as a real surprise. Making a conversation real-time can create an overflow of information. But I think it is too soon to assume that Wave will crash on a beach. I once wrote down 10 reasons why Google Wave would change the way we communicate. Google Wave will become far more important than the first demo/service we see people struggling with now. It’s a bit odd to quote myself in a post, but I still like what I’ve written about this earlier:"
- ~C4Chaos
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