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Wang Yip › Likes
The Claim: Cold Temperatures Improve Sleep | New York Times - http://www.nytimes.com/glogin...
mohammadk, bob, Papak and 44 other people liked this
“Studies have found that in general, the optimal temperature for sleep is quite cool, around 60 to 68 degrees Fahrenheit. For some, temperatures that fall too far below or above this range can lead to restlessness.”
- Anthony Citrano
from Bookmarklet
Finally a study I believe! If I don't sleep in a cold room, I can't sleep.
- Shevonne
Makes sense to me. It gets warm enough some evenings to where I have a hell of a time getting a good sleep in.
- Jonathan Hardesty
60-68 seems REALLY low though. Dang, I thought setting the a/c to 77/78 was low enough already.
- ronin
@ronin No way. 68 for me.
- Shevonne
I can believe this. I much prefer a cool room, whatever the season.
- John (bird whisperer)
Definitely have to have a cool room to sleep properly. Few things worse than waking up in the middle of the night sweating (and no, not in a good way...)
- FFing Enigma
I don't want to be baking hot, but I can't sleep if I'm too cold. I get cold easily, and then my hands and feet go dead and white.
- Kamilah Reed (K. Gill)
I was just talking about this to a friend who asked me to split the cost of a hotel room. I had to explain how I always keep the room cool, while bundled under the blankets.
- Anika
Side benefit of sleeping in a cold room: Wife is much much much cuddlier.
- Wirehead
For those who, as I did, wondered how cold you feel at 60-68° F : its's a temeprature between 16° Celsius and 20° Celsius.
- Zackatoustra
Yes! I love sleeping at about 65/66 degrees. Like LLL, I like to use the big comforter. I feel more comfortable and relaxed if I can breathe the cooler air.
- Katy S
Sent this story to my wife, who likes it a bit warmer for the kids.
- Hutch Carpenter
I thought it was just me. My sleep is much worse at 76-80+ temperatures. Normally I like 72-73 indoors, so 60-68 seems cool. Maybe it is better for sleep. :-)
- Mitchell Tsai
Hmmm,I normally keep my house around 68 but then I'm British and used to cold old drafty houses
- Sally Church
i think there is also cultural preferences/biases. when we lived in the UK we were amazed at how almost everyone turned their heat off completely at nite, thru-out the winter. when we came back, we began sleeping cooler, and love it.
- Thom Kennon
Good point Thom, I find American houses far too warm and stuffy in the winter.
- Sally Church
Sally, I'm with you: 68 is good, but 65 in the winter is AOK for me as well. I can wear socks and a snuggly shirt for less than I can heat the house to 70.
- FFing Enigma
So there is a reason I use my ceiling fan at full speed at night. Interesting.
- Ryan Massie
Ryan - indeed. love a good sleepybreeze. although your comment reminds me of how many hotel rooms and other rooms I go into where the ceiling fans are set incorrectly... I used to work in a lighting store so I notice such things. ;) [it's supposed to blow DOWN during the summer and UP during the winter]
- Anthony Citrano
I'm always frustrated by the fact that hotel rooms do not have ceiling fans. I have trouble sleeping without the breeze.
- Dennis O'Neil
I seem to be at the 68 degree end of the range, while my wife seems to be closer to the 60 degree end of the range for our optimal sleeping temperatures. :)
- In Search of Gender
I knew it!
- Shey
LOL, silly Scott! In summer, the thermostat goes to 74 at night. In winter, I usually set it for about 67 during the day and 65-66 at night. Bundling up in blankets and comforter FTW!
- Ordinarybug Heather
i believe it.
- Carolyn Chan
i thought it was the opposite.
- Kamamiya
You forgot to include Leif Parsons' name on the artwork for this webpage.
- Jon Craig
Jon, you joined FF just for that? The photo credit is proper on the linked NYT page. This is just a share. If sharing on the internet concerns you, I'd say you have your work cut out for you.
- Tinfoil 2.0
What is your Twitter URL? What do you tweet about? Mine is http://twitter.com/koltreg... and I tweet about all sorts :-) #twitter
polymath22, AJ Kohn, I /-\li and 52 other people liked this
Feel free to follow me. This thread could get messy. :-) #whatsyoururl
- Kol Tregaskes
Sorry I had to delete the first post of this, so apologises for the few that posted their URLs on that one.
- Kol Tregaskes
Hehe.
- Kol Tregaskes
Thanks, Nicholas.
- Kol Tregaskes
Well I'll still be on Twitter once FF is integrated into FB. Join me on Twitter? :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
http://twitter.com/chaz2b my posts start here for what i post on twitter
- chaz2b
you rock, Kol! Good community building here.
- Valeria Maltoni
http://twitter.com/andrewroche - politics and random stuff (a lot of it from here funnily enough).
- Andrew Roche
Find me at http://twitter.com/andrued... and my news updates at http://twitter.com/gearlive
- Andru Edwards
http://www.twitter.com/jimgold... - photography and social media
- Jim Goldstein
http://twitter.com/magicofpi - you might see a lot of ff.im links there, but I suppose that'll change soon...
- Ryan - @magicofpi
http://twitter.com/jwang392 - web design, iphone app development, hawaii events
- John Wang
http://twitter.com/onWave - I post links from a useful Twitter tool I made... and sometimes mundane stuff...
- Gus
http://twitter.com/fcbosa - social media, blogging, design, inspiration.
- Oguz Serdar
Thanks guys.
- Kol Tregaskes
http://twitter.com/Chronotope - Mostly I tweet about tech stuff and news local to the Northern Virgina area. I also touch on video games and get some blipping in.
- Aram Zucker-Scharff
http://twitter.com/gabediaz - Design, development, WordPress and all things in between.
- Gabe Diaz
http://www.twitter.com/puffadd... I tweet about ninjas lol.
- Jason
I basically tweet politics at http://Twitter.com/hopechat; i follow discussions on books, gardening and general stuff on http://Twitter.com/ruthdfw; grantwriting and freelancing on http://Twitter.com/words101 and for anything related to Dallas and surrounding cities it is http://Twitter.com/NDGEditor
- R. Ferguson
http://twitter.com/movieguyjon - I say weird shit, bitch at random times, and will say more weird shit. Occasionally I'll post fun things too, with a smidgeon of inane. :P
- Jonathan Hardesty
Pretty clever way to work in a plug for your timeline.. I like your style, Kol ;)
- Brad McCrorey
Http://Twitter.com/Polizeros cleantech, the economy, leftwing politics
- Bob Morris (polizeros)
from iPhone
http://twitter.com/sonergonul Feel like a star.
- ★ Soner Gönül
Keep 'em coming, I'll add you all later today. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
http://twitter.com/niron (isn't it obvious?)
- Nir Ben Yona
http://twitter.com/dennis_... (don't forget the underscore) What do I tweet about? Tech, fiction, art, music, politics, comics, and of course my fiction. Occasionally some Seattle or Bremerton related stuff. I also have TwitterFeed tweet my blogs, and I always tweet from Flickr.
- Dennis Jernberg
http://twitter.com/marcoda... Twitting about Communications, Marketing and something about myself :)
- Marco Dal Pozzo [mdp]
http://twitter.com/tofu916 I tweet about black people and I use a lot of foul language. then I repent. follow mi! :)
- Tofu De la Moore
from BuddyFeed
http://twitter.com/hoof I tweet a lot in Dutch, about design, photoshop, 3d and everyday life.
- Ruud van Wijngaarden
http://twitter.com/wordsfo... - I actually respond to people to want to chat with me ;-)
- Jannifer @wordsforliving
http://twitter.com/alexgamela i tweet about media and journalism, and sometimes silly stuff. also in portuguese.
- Alexandre Gamela
from twhirl
i post about film and television editing/post production, I'm a bit of a gadget nerd, and i like anything funny on the web. i love followers... http://twitter.com/toddzelin
- Todd Zelin
I'm sure you're all interesting but following 6,000 is my limit. ; )
- Liz
http://twitter.com/cgranier - I tweet about many things -usually tech-oriented, reply to everyone who @'s me, and have lately been posting a lot about #FreeMediaVE, bringing attention to the struggle against communism in Venezuela. Feel free to follow me. @ me for a quick follow back. No spammers please.
- Carlos Granier-Phelps
Thank you all. I hope at least some follow me back else I'll hit my follower limit soon. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
http://twitter.com/may_gun My music career, interaction with ppl, The Guild, Wiggly Wigglers.
- Spidra Webster
http://twitter.com/casschin - I mostly post up funny/odd web gems and nerdy tech news. Occasionally, I tweet what I eat.
- Cass
http://twitter.com/Felter i tweet about all, but i don't retweet my FF message. From twitter to FF only. if you follow me in FF, you can read my tweet.
- Felter Roberto
from twhirl
http://twitter.com/abrudtkuhl - web strategy & internet marketing + random stuff
- andy brudtkuhl
twitter.com/icetiger
- Kim
twitter.com/andi1984 - elearning, web 2.0
- Andreas S.
http://twitter.com/islanddog Tech, Gaming, and everything in between
- Spencer
http://twitter.com/livepaola (bilingual, in Italian and English)
- Paola Bonomo
http://twitter.com/ozuckan, trilingual, in Turkish, in English, in French, all sort...
- Ozgur Uckan
Thanks again. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
http://twitter.com/antifreeze Obviously.
- Seth Blank
Twitter.com/mathewballard and I tweet mostly about graphic and web design.
- Mathew™ aka Youngblood
from iPhone
http://twitter.com/PhilBaumann - I'll tweet about anything stimulating, contentious or jackassy.
- phil baumann
http://twitter.com/alejandroz and I tweet about...everything.
- Alejandro
You know, you could have just started feeding in your tweets here and achieved the same, right? Or would that have been too subtle?
- Mr. Gunn
http://twitter.com/glitterpoet Don't mean to offend but it's usually not religious. Porn, drinking,dancing, music,makeup....I still do healing work. I just don't talk about it much anymore.
- Gabrielle
My twitter stream is the typical... random thought bubbles, food porn pics, and shared items relating to technology, politics, and $$$. http://twitter.com/sean808080 is where you find me. Oh and I like unicorns and fairy dust.
- sean808080
@fossilhuntress or fossilmaitress (I kept getting my email cracked and getting locked out hence the duplicate); all content, linked to digg, delicious... mostly science, paleo and random banter...
- Fossil Huntress
http://twitter.com/joeygibson - I tweet about WDW, Java, Groovy, Scala, iPhone, politics, etc. I'm loads of fun. :-)
- Joey Gibson
http://twitter.com/burak - I tweet about technology, gadgets, stuff that matters
- Burak "cyrus" Bayburtlu
Fossil, it's @fossilhuntress http://twitter.com/fossilh... The other one doesn't exist.
- Kol Tregaskes
It's @bookhling for me. I usually tweet about DIYBio, computers, books, and what I ate for dinner. :)
- Sung W. Lim
Thanks guys.
- Kol Tregaskes
http://twitter.com/satanwyj 中文用户 :)
- R093r-
http://twitter.com/lachmir I tweet about dumb stuff
- Franc, a rememberer
Thanks everyone.
- Kol Tregaskes
I have ceased being a twitter user since they are such twats (management)
- Richard A.
http://twitter.com/erier2003 - I write about technology, journalism, and Star Wars. But mostly Star Wars. :)
- Eric Geller
http://twitter.com/sonergonul Of course ;)
- ★ Soner Gönül
Maybe this is a good time to 'reactivate' this thread. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Don't forget the other lists can be found at the hashtag: #whatsyoururl
- Kol Tregaskes
http://twitter.com/brexians all about #travel #photography #sci-fi #space and #weird! join and joy
- Demetrios the Traveller
http://twitter.com/wangyip - mostly stuff from FF (tech, startups, web apps, sometimes things about math, medicine, fitness) - I've followed a few here on tech stuff (Edit: Thanks Kol for the thread)
- Wang Yip
http://twitter.com/eoghann... - I post sci-fi news (tv, movies, books or comics I'm probably a fan of it), some tech stuff and the occasional round of venting.
- Eoghann Irving
I have Twitter lists now, and I've started one up for FriendFeeders: http://twitter.com/dennis_...; if you want me to add you to it, @-mention me at http://twitter.com/dennis_....
- Dennis Jernberg
Thanks everyone!
- Kol Tregaskes
Just followed you. Btw, mine's - http://twitter.com/jaypee
- JP Habaradas
http://twitter.com/DavidHolmes - Focusing on Internet music, Open Content, and the Social Web. I use lists to group/filter the people I follow.
- David Holmes
I can follow people again, cleared out a lot of users, anyone want a follow? :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
http://twitter.com/1geeky - I tweet about tech and webdesign and also daily events :)
- I /-\li
http://twitter.com/ajkohn - mostly search, social, marketing and ux with miscellaneous rants and observations
- AJ Kohn
http://twitter.com/Metapho... - a mix of quotes, jokes and wordplay, especially metaphors and similes.
- Dave Richardson
Bumping this as I've just done the same on Google+ here: https://plus.google.com/1044055...
- Kol Tregaskes
Hello! I'm Keiko. Nice to meet you! ....... ^_^
Hüseyin EROL, chaz2b, 4 yorum daha and 115 other people liked this
Thank youuu!!
- keiko-san
خودتی ... کیکو یامادا :)
- نقطه
Yes! I am Keiko Yamada....... desu.
- keiko-san
نه از اون لحاظ گفتم :) عمرن اگر گوگل بتونه ترجمه کنه
- نقطه
Nice to meet you.
- Iván Abrego
Hi,,, :)
- Houshang...
Welcome to FF!
- Gajamoo گـ َـجَـ مو
Thank youuu ! Arigatoooo !!
- keiko-san
Arigato!
- keiko-san
Hi, Mark! Nice to meet you.....Arigatooo!
- keiko-san
Hi, Ken & Kiyomi. watshi mo shiriaini narete ureshii desu! korekaramo yoroshikuuuu! ;D
- keiko-san
Carina e simpatica :)
- Janvitus
Grazie, Janvitus! ; P
- keiko-san
Hello there.
- SAM
Hello SAM! Nice to meet you!
- keiko-san
You too Keiko! Welcome.
- SAM
Hi!
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
@Sarah June＞Hi! Nice to meet you!
- keiko-san
@Jeremy＞Hi! Nice to meet you!
- keiko-san
@‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift ＞Hello! Nice to meet you!
- keiko-san
Nice to meet you =Yoroshiku + onegai + shimaaaasu ???
- ۳۰ مرغ Loves Y'ALLLLL
Hi :)
- Citronella still FFing
@ Mahmood Padura ＞Yeeees! or Hajimemashite! kana??
- keiko-san
@Citronella ＞Hi! Nice to meet you!!
- keiko-san
@gayyor＞H! gayyor:))))
- keiko-san
Hola! Nice to meet you as well. :)
- JA Castillo
Hola! Nice to meet you!
- keiko-san
good, maybe you can explain the elements pf sentence too, like what does yoroshiku mean? or how do you compare these two phrases , etc. :)
- ۳۰ مرغ Loves Y'ALLLLL
ciao Keiko!
- Ailyn Seen
@ Mahmood Padura＞Let me think about....Thanks!
- keiko-san
@Isola Virtuale ＞Grazie! dal Giappone!! : D
- keiko-san
@Ailyn Seen＞Ciao, piacere!
- keiko-san
@ Mahmood Padura＞"yoroshiku onegai shimasu" is using often in Japan for afterpice. Nihonngo wa muzukashii desuuuu!
- keiko-san
mish mishy..
- ♕Dr. Eynollah شایگان ♕
Grazie! a tutti!!
- keiko-san
Benvenuta!
- mrsbubba
yoroshikune!
- keiko-san
welcome
- Nilly
Hi, Nilly! Nice to meet you!
- keiko-san
Ciao Keiko!
- team bonino
Hi,welcome :)
- Mary
@Zio Bonino＞Ciao Zio! Come vai?
- keiko-san
@Mary＞Hi,Mary! سلام!
- keiko-san
Grazieeee, a tuttiiiii !!!
- keiko-san
nice to meet you...
- RobertoC
Ciao Roberto! Piacere.:D
- keiko-san
みなさ～～ん、ありがとう！よろしくお願いしまぁ～～す♪
- keiko-san
mucho gusto!
- Morgan
Gracias!
- keiko-san
Nice to meet you too KEIKO :-)
- R_ C
Hi, - R_ C . Thank you!
- keiko-san
:D
- keiko-san
Konban wa Keiko. Watashi no namae wa Turan ÖZKAN desu... Ogenki desu ka?
- Turan ÖZKAN
Watashi wa Dilara desu. Hajimamashite doozoo yoroshiku :P
- Dilara TAN
@mae＞Ciao,mae! Come vai?
- keiko-san
@Turan ÖZKAN＞Bravo! Very well! totemo jouzu desune! Nice to meet you!
- keiko-san
@Dilara TAN＞Wow! Very well !! Hajimemashite! keiko desu. Nice to meet you!
- keiko-san
Watashi wa Nihon-go ga joozu desu... Chikai uchi ni moo ichido aimashoo..
- Turan ÖZKAN
Waaa, sugooooi! yonde kakukotomo dekimasuka?
- keiko-san
Nice to meet you!
- Matteo
Hello, Tyler! Nice to meet you, too!
- keiko-san
Ciaaao! Io sono Chiara :)
- Esthar
@Ale♫nastrorosa ＞Ciao,Alessandra! Piacere!
- keiko-san
@Esthar ＞Ciao,Chiara! Piacere!
- keiko-san
konbanwa!
- keiko-san
hav ar yu misez ?:)
- نجاتی
?? In English, please!
- keiko-san
Hello, Keiko. I missed your post the first time!
- Ha3rvey #teamMonique
Hello! nice to meet you!
- keiko-san
Merhaba Keiko :)
- Olcayto Cengiz
Hello! Olcayto Cengiz ;)
- keiko-san
Hello! Nice (meeting/subbing to) you. \o,
- Zu from AOD
Hello! nice to meet you!
- keiko-san
Hello! :)
- keiko-san
Hello Amin Diary !
- keiko-san
hi, درود "do'rood"
- میرزا بنویس
Hello میرزا !
- keiko-san
حالا ما یک دقیقه اومدیم تبادل فرهنگی کنیم اومدی گیر میدی امین؟
- میرزا بنویس
@ Amin Diary＞;)
- keiko-san
@ میرزا＞in English please!
- keiko-san
@Amin Diary＞I can't understand well!
- keiko-san
بیا همین رو می خواستی امین؟ حالاخودت بهش توضیح بده : دی
- میرزا بنویس
I see......I'm Japanese.
- keiko-san
?? no, I can't understand.....what does it means?
- keiko-san
I see......thanks for comment!
- keiko-san
ciao a tutti ! ^o^
- keiko-san
Hello there!
- The Fat Oracle
hello, Kamath (नमः) ^_^ :)
- keiko-san
nice to meet you too ;) درضمن رونوشت به رضاراز یه دختر جدید اومده فرفر :))))))
- maral
@The Fat Oracle ＞hello!.....:)
- keiko-san
@ maral ＞Hi!.....^o^
- keiko-san
hi, Ned!.....^o^
- keiko-san
Hello, again!....^o^
- keiko-san
Nazlı ..... kochirakoso yoroshiku onegai shima~su!.....^_^ :)
- keiko-san
tsubasa,wakabayashi,nankatsu :p
- ermania
hello, ermania!.....tsubasa...I know....wakabayashi...yes, but....nankatsu...??
- keiko-san
HI. Nice to meet you :-)
- robven
ciao, roberto.....piacere!......^o^
- keiko-san
hi,Daryl Hunt on FF!.....nice to meet you.......^o^
- keiko-san
Wow, cool. :)
- Quad
hi, Quad!.....^o^ -
- keiko-san
Hello again!......^o^
- keiko-san
hello,natzuka!........^o^ -
- keiko-san
nice to meet you Welcome to FF:)
- Hamsafar
nice to meet you,Hamsafar!.......^o^
- keiko-san
do mo arigato gozaimaste :)
- ems
nice to meet you, ems!......^o^
- keiko-san
hajimemashite,Alper!.....douzo yoroshiku ne!......^o^
- keiko-san
Ciaossu
- Remo
hi, Remo!......^_^
- keiko-san
nice to meet you!.....^o^
- keiko-san
konnichiwa!.....^_^
- keiko-san
hi!......^o^
- keiko-san
hello!......how are you doing?
- keiko-san
I'm fine!.....and you?
- keiko-san
thanks , l 'm fine :)
- Emrah
.......^_^.......
- keiko-san
@Duygu Eroglu ＞hello!.....nice to meet you!......^_^
- keiko-san
@Dilek ＞hello!.....nice to meet you!......^_^
- keiko-san
#yay :) how are you.
- Cevdet Aykan DEMİR
@méhtap ＞hello!.....Selam!......^_^
- keiko-san
@Cevdet Aykan DEMIR ＞Hello!.....Selam!......konnichiwa!......^_^
- keiko-san
http://ff.im/j8QZi selam:)
- Cevdet Aykan DEMİR
konnichiwa! mehtaP:)
- Cevdet Aykan DEMİR
@Cevdet Aykan DEMIR ＞wow...!.....thanks!!.......^0^
- keiko-san
@méhtap ＞really?.....oh....thank you!......^o^
- keiko-san
@Cevdet Aykan DEMIR ＞......(*^-^)♪.......
- keiko-san
nice to meet you.......wellcom keiko-san.
- katayoon
hi, katayoon!......nice to meet you!......thank you....;)))
- keiko-san
hello, again!
- keiko-san
good-morning,méhtap!.......^o^
- keiko-san
hello guys!
- keiko-san
hello!.....nice to meet you.......^_^
- keiko-san
hello there!
- keiko-san
me too dear!!
- امین
hi امین ! ...... ^o^
- keiko-san
Hi Keiko-San..welcome to FF ...have a phun Time :)-
- Peter Dawson
hi Peter Dawson! ...... thank you! ....... :)
- keiko-san
@Keiko-San- is it right to say "Hajimemashite" ?
- Peter Dawson
yes! .... hajimemashite! ..... nice to meet you! .....:)))
- keiko-san
hello Cevdet Aykan DEMİR! ......wow ..... I don't know how to thank you! ....... ^o^
- keiko-san
hi Egza! ..... (^___^);
- keiko-san
That's right! ....... ^o^
- keiko-san
Hello Keiko
- Kevin J Hatton
hi Kevin! ...... how are u?
- keiko-san
Hi, We are following your feeds with admiration.
- Ali Oz
oh, really?.... thank you so much! ...... ^o^
- keiko-san
I am good u? @keiko-san
- Kevin J Hatton
Wow this is one long thread!
- Kevin J Hatton
hay keko
- ermania
@Kevin> yes, because I want to know a lot of people.
- keiko-san
@ermania > hi .....^o^
- keiko-san
@keiko-san That would make sense really
- Kevin J Hatton
do you think so?
- keiko-san
hello again! ...... ^o^
- keiko-san
hi sumamasu ..... nice to meet you! ........ ^o^
- keiko-san
minasan ogenkidesuka?
- keiko-san
hi.keiko..:)
- şenay toy
hello! ...... konnichiwa ....... (^__-)
- keiko-san
Please delete this feed.
- Selman
@Selman: learn to use the block function. the world doesn't revolve around you.
- Joe Silence
hi Joe! ......(^__^)
- keiko-san
#MirandaKerr Shwingtastic New Victoria’s Secret Bikini Pictures - http://www.popoholic.com/2010...
Radicando Levino, SK Pegasus, Vittal Koppal and 3 other people liked this
That is a fine specimen.
- Eivind
If any Calgary & Area FFers are into boardgames, I'm hosting a night at my house on Sept 4th. #yyc
Morton Fox, Jenny H, Roberto Bonini and 11 other people liked this
I'll seriously figure out if I can join. Great initiative, Nathalie.
- Micah
Analog games? Quaint!
- Mo Kargas
The best kind, Mo.
- Micah
Too far to drive. :D
- AJ Batac
fun! I would totally be there if I lived even remotely close :)
- holly #ravingfangirl
We'll need a laptop for every player that wants to skype in.
- Micah
The event is posted on the events calendar of the Calgary Boardgames Meetup group (http://www.meetup.com/boardga...)
- Nathalie
How fun. You've just reminded me that we haven't hosted a game night in forever. Fixing that right now.
- Anika
yay! :)
- Nathalie
Can you roll the dice and move the wheelbarrow around the board for us if we just call in form So Cal every few minutes?
- SteVe C
hmmm. which makes me wonder - are there any games where one could actually play a board game remotely? because I'd be willing to try that some day.
- Nathalie
Nathalie, I'm really sorry it turns out I can't make it - Laura is scheduled to work that evening. I keep my eye out for any live blogging threads of the game night. :)
- Micah
no worries! maybe next time. I'll post a new thread here whenever I host. Hopefully it will become a regular session.
- Nathalie
Anyone else from Calgary and Area? Isn't there another RedDeer fellow around these parts?
- Nathalie
Cool. I'll see if I can make it!
- Matt M (inactive)
I'm the other Red Deer fellow (one of them, at least). Sorry Nathalie, I'll be out camping that weekend. Sounds like fun though. Keep me posted for future events. ;)
- Mitch
cancelled. not enough interest. will reschedule.
- Nathalie
Sorry, Nathalie. Don't lose hope. A friend and I have a games going in town every Monday night now. It's great.
- Micah
I"ve had a few before. The long weekend was a poor choice of date.
- Nathalie
Cliqset is the best alternative to FriendFeed. It just needs users to actually use it!
İlter Kalkancı, Imabug, Jeff (Team マクダジ ) and 17 other people liked this
Simple as that. ;-)
- Kol Tregaskes
It's a pretty good concept but FriendFeed is better I think.
- Meyra
I'll never go back.
- Jimminy IS Everybody
Where did I say it was better than FriendFeed? I didn't. I said it's the best replacement. Go give it a go. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Well they are talking the talk but I've yet to see it so far. v2 is nothing to write home about but new "big" things" are coming any minute from what I've read.
- Kol Tregaskes
Yeah. Personallly I'm tired of waiting. I haven't logged into Pip.io in weeks, really.
- Akiva
Akiva, they are saying that something will drop today.
- Kol Tregaskes
I love, love, love that I can comment to and from my Google Buzz posts inside Cliqset! :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Cliqset is on my radar. just haven't had the time recently to eff with it.
- jbrotherlove
You can't afford to fail when you have a few users. What more if you have 500,000 users? You should show stability and show early adopters that you can handle it. Then maybe, FFeeders will move there.
- AJ Batac
Every time I look at Cliqset I like it more. If it had the community that FriendFeed does, I would switch over there now.
- Jandy
I really dislike the UI for cliqset, else I would use it.
- Jonathan Hardesty
I find the UI is very similar to FF, so I like it. It also beats FF in several areas and the syncing of comments with Buzz is amazing. I hope they can add other services in this way - just like Postling does.
- Kol Tregaskes
I say always keep your options open. Try Cliqset. Try Amplify. Try Buzz. Try not to slam them if they miss expectations. FriendFeed is and always has been the gold standard.
- Louis Gray
Louis, exactly.
- Kol Tregaskes
Louis, honestly, I think I could use Cliqset, Amply, OR Buzz as a FF replacement, if the community from here would go as well. If all of my friends on FriendFeed all decided "okay, we're going to Cliqset now" I'd be totally down. But it seems more people are moving back to Twitter or Facebook instead, and riding it out here, and I'm struggling with the fragmentation. I guess I could start over again building community at those places the way I did here two years ago, but it just seems discouraging.
- Jandy
Jandy, for FriendFeeders have a look at Amplify, there are tons of us over there. Personally I just wished we all were using Cliqset. It's more a natural replacement to FriendFeed.
- Kol Tregaskes
I'll never go back to Cliqset, and I agree they're probably the most natural replacement. There's nothing that can make up for a horrible user experience.
- Jimminy IS Everybody
Kol, I've looked at Amplify - it looks good as a clipping/sharing service, but it doesn't have the aggregater component, does it? I can't find anywhere to import activity from other sources - in other words, it would work well as a place to START posting from and then have it go out to other networks, but it doesn't work that well as a endpoint. I think it would replace Posterous/Tumblr/Twitter for me sooner than FriendFeed/Facebook.
- Jandy
Well here's me if anyone's interested http://cliqset.com/dalziel Kol I can't find you on there
- Glenn Slaven
Jandy, no aggregator, but that's on purpose and it's not needed. You've got others services for this (like FF though most services work better if you use them natively). And yep I use Amplify exactly like that, as my 'starting point'. But I continue to post to FF separately via the FF bookmarklet. But FF's bookmarklet finally has been been beaten - Amplify's betters it easily. Amplify won't replace FF, it's too different a service.
- Kol Tregaskes
Cliqset is the service I'm looking to more than any other as a new 'home'. I'm going to have a long look this weekend. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
Jason, yeah, that's its only problem. It's a big problem but if they can overcome it it will be a very useful service. The new comment-syncing between it and Google Buzz it's a huge new feature. If it can do this with other services like FF, FB, Twitter, etc. it will be excellent.
- Kol Tregaskes
Kol, right. I guess I'm just not sure why I would follow people on Amplify, then. I'll just follow them at FriendFeed or one of the other "endpoint" services rather than the "starting point" services.
- Jandy
I just got my first spammer follow on Cliqset REB Reusable Eco Bags
- Gunnyman™
Jandy, there's a lot of conversations going on on Amplify too - not as much as FF but it's growing pretty rapid in recent weeks.
- Kol Tregaskes
CW, I've done that too but will look at it again and probably remove a lot of them. Really only need GReader and Twitter on Cliqset. GReader shares come out pretty nicely on Cliqset.
- Kol Tregaskes
Matthew, yeah I've had a few errors on Cliqset in the last few days. Perhaps it's the new features.
- Kol Tregaskes
CW, I was on a long thread with Darren from Cliqset and he was taking in everything I said. Fixed a few things too.
- Kol Tregaskes
Matthew, you should be able to do that by clicking on "Comments" or on Permalink.
- Kol Tregaskes
Jason, followed you. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
I've been giving cliqset a whirl. it's a reasonably good replacement for FF I think, although I find the scrollage can be a bit much. http://cliqset.com/eugenemah and http://imabug.amplify.com/
- Imabug
Matthew, yeah. I wish it showed comments like FF. I'll mention it to Darren.
- Kol Tregaskes
So I made a post about how the posts in the stream seemed jammed up and Darren "Replied" to my post. However, I only know because I got a notification. Why have both Reply and Comment? I guess I could ask on Cliqset but I'm missing something. (I suppose a Reply could be directly to me but it would be nice if Replies hung off my original post. <shrug>
- c.a.j.
The Magnetic Man - http://www.1DesignPerDay.com/2010...
Movie Review: Scott Pilgrim vs. the World - Perfect KO | /Film - http://www.slashfilm.com/2010...
Kol Tregaskes, Roberto Bonini, Steven Perez and 4 other people liked this
"In 15 to 20 years from now, Scott Pilgrim vs. the World will be seen as the defining movie of its respective generation, and if it isn’t, it should be. No movie has better encapsulated and satirized the interests and temperaments of contemporary youth, and no future movie is likely to surpass it. With the exception of those blindly dismissing the film as “hipster” (all of whom are apparently unaware that the hipster mentality is a source of constant ridicule throughout the film), the under-30 crowd is going to adore this movie. The box office may not reflect it now, but its status as cult classic will manifest itself heavily down the line, when time has proven the film to be uniquely representative of youths from the late ’90s and aughts, whose lives have been so heavily influenced by video games, movies, television, music, comics and the internet."
- Jandy
from Bookmarklet
I've been hearing a lot of comments that it's "hipster," which means that once again some people out there just *aren't* getting it. This is not a hipster friendly movie, nor is it a vegan friendly one either! :P
- Jonathan Hardesty
That said, it does reward a knowledge of a lot of hipster trends and interests and the hipster mindset and scene. IOW, it's not a movie that particularly endorses hipsterism (and takes plenty of potshots at it), but I can see the argument that you need a decent awareness of hipster culture to get everything it's doing.
- Jandy
serdar paktin to serdar's feed, Strategic Innovation, Web Strategy, Ideas & Inspiration, Creative Design, Future of media, RWW: The Future of Tech, Futuristika!
#SoBi: social bike sharing system | @blackyogurt: watch the video - http://blackyogurt.org/2010...
 |
Wang Yip and Matteo Brunati liked this
SoBi will be the first public bike share system with the authorization, tracking, and security systems attached to the bicycle itself. SoBi uses GPS, mobile communications, and a secure lock that can attach to almost any bicycle and lock to any regular bike rack.
- serdar paktin
from Bookmarklet
Must-see anime films and series. GO. [I'm making some personal to-watch lists for areas of cinema where I'm weak.]
AJ Batac, Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど, reズa . and 19 other people liked this
Elfin Lied. Violent but good.
- Colette
Thanks, Spooky, I haven't heard of that one. Adding it to my list.
- Jandy
Revolutionary Girl Utena -- the movie is easy to find, the TV series (39 episodes, 3 seasons) a little more difficult. Both seeing a re-release in the next year. Given how you liked Inception, I think this is one you might really dig.
- Jennifer Dittrich
Personal favorite TV shows: One Piece, Hikaru no Go, Sailor Moon, Hana Yori Dango. The first two are up on Hulu.
- Jennifer Dittrich
The Haunted Junction and Battle Athletes series are faves of mine. They're silly-fun. Oh, the Neon Genesis series is good, the movie that compresses them all, not so much. Have you seen Escaflowne? It's a must see. Avoid Tenchi. Adding Naruto, Bubblegum Crisis, Black Lagoon & Bleach. I have a note reminding me to get Shura no Toki on a rec from a few friends. I think I'll add that now.
- Anika
GRAVE OF THE FIREFLIES, LAST EXILE, GURREN LAGGAN, and PAPRIKA.
- Steven Perez
LOVE THIS MOVIE SO MUCH
- Melissa
Anika - I love Battle Athletes! Such a fun show :)
- Jennifer Dittrich
Basilisk, Claymore, everything in the Ghost In The Shell universe, Macross Plus, Parasite Dolls
- LANjackal
Bleach, can find it up on hulu. I also like Sherlock Hound for just a brainless no thinking series. Miyazaki did a couple of the episodes and you can find it up on youtube
- Sir Shuping is just sir
Shadow Skill, Black Magic M-66
- LANjackal
Samurai X/Rurouni Kenshin
- LANjackal
AfroSamurai
- LANjackal
Serial Experiments: Lain (you knew this was coming from me, didn't you?)
- Michael W. May
Paranoia Agent, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Genshikin, Perfect Blue
- Kim Landwehr
You would /love/ Millennium Actress.
- Andrew C (✓)
The Professional: Golgo 13
- Adrian
Hellsing, Fullmetal Alchemist, Patlabor, Honey & Clover, Gintama, The Place Promised in Our Early Days, Mushishi, Samurai Champloo, Haibane Renmei, Boogiepop Phantom, Voices of a Distant Star, Millenium Actress, 5 Centimeters Per Second, Tokyo Godfathers, Great Teacher Onizuka (GTO), Sword of the Stranger, Royal Space Force Honneamise, Ranma 1/2.
- ronin
YES for VOICES OF A DISTANT STAR.
- Steven Perez
Lupin the Third: Castle of Cagliostro - but get the 2000 release, it's funnier!
- Ciaoenrico
Cowboy bebop, Ghost in the Shell and the Stand alone Complex, 1st season of the Gunslinger Girls series are the first to come to mind. Not to mention Bleach & Naruto. Both of which are some of the most popular series being done now.
- Bluesun 2600
I'm also with LANjackal on his recommendation of seeing AfroSamurai. That was a great show.
- Bluesun 2600
Any incarnation of Lupin III is fun times, but I especially recommend "Castle of Cagliostro" -- early Miyazaki partnered with a super-classic series.
- Jennifer Dittrich
everything by Miyazaki
- Victor Ryden 美久太阿
I've been digging Cowboy Bebop - it's very Firefly-esque. Akira's in my Top 20.
- Nathan Chase
Bebop is fantastic. Watched that a few months back.
- Jandy
The show or the movie? You might also like Samurai Champloo. Same director, similar visual style, completely different setting, overall not quite as good as Bebop but still very watchable.
- Andrew C (✓)
Andrew, the show. I haven't watched the movie yet. I think Samurai Champloo was mentioned last time I did an anime thread; I do want to check it out.
- Jandy
Have to say +1 with Bluesun 2600's Naruto recommendation. I think you'd also like Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood as well.
- Wang Yip
If you're interested in history too, you may want to find the original Gundam, or at least the 3-movie compilation of the TV show. It started a franchise that has lasted 30 or so years so far, and practically an entire genre too -- before Gundam, there were giant robot shows with non-sentient, piloted robots, but Gundam was the first to suggest they could be mass-produced rather than one-off superhero type robots.
- Andrew C (✓)
My friend Tom made me watch the 3-movie compilation of the TV show. I thought it was pretty cool. If you ask him about it, Jandy, it would more than likely make his day. :)
- Jonathan Hardesty
Seriously...I wish I could just save this post. I need the same list! LOL One of my faves is Vampire Hunter D. ;-)
- Carlton Hackett
Films: Grave of the Fireflies, Whisper of the Heart. Shows: Noir, Loveless, Tsubasa Chronicle.
- Pixie
No one said Fist of the North Star?!?! But seriously, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, and definitely NOT Evangelion. *shudder*
- Kevin L
It is worthy of multiple suggestions, Jason ;)
- Michael W. May
The other thing about Lupin III - I was just reminded of this when I saw a new Lupin III toy ( http://www.j-hobby.com/kms_jpn... ) is that if you like Bebop, well, Spike and Jet are pretty obvious at least visually homages to Lupin and Jigen.
- Andrew C (✓)
@Disco Dapper I've been looking for the name of that show for years! I used to watch it when I was a kid, and could only remember the name Conan. Thanks! Now giving my own answer, I enjoyed the "Ghost in the Shell" films.
- Alejandro
FLCL… Gun Grave… Blood+… MInd Game… Paprika… Perfect Blue… BubbleGum Crisis & Parasite Dolls… Texhnolyze… The Girl That Leaped Through Time… Summer Wars… Gunsmith Cats… Patlabor 2
- Remo
Chiming back in to second the nominations for Last Exile and Escaflowne. Big sweeping epic stories, both of which sort of fall apart a bit near the end, but they're stunning to look at and pretty compelling for at least the first three quarters.
- Andrew C (✓)
Definitely Escaflowne: http://piaw.blogspot.com/2009...
- Piaw Na
evangelion, full metal alchemist (original series), habane renmei, beck - mongolian chop squad
- Terry O'Fee
evangelion is great! whats not to like about that??
- Terry O'Fee
Awesom list. Bookmarked.
- Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど
from Android
Must-see Hong Kong action films. GO. [I'm making some personal to-watch lists for areas of cinema where I'm weak.] And please, go cheesy, go low-budget, go no-name, go cult, go stuff I would never hear about.
Lumino_GmbH, Morton Fox, imabonehead and 12 other people liked this
Either gun-kind or martial arts-kind or whatever. Feel free to put Thai action and other Asian action in here as well.
- Jandy
Let me dig into my '02 - '04 Netflix history. I have a ton of them.
- Anika
I'm guessing Rush Hour doesn't count
- SteVe C
Anything with the dude on the left is worth the time, methinks.
- Michael W. May
Steve, no. No Hollywood imitators, please. I have pretty good exposure to those. :)
- Jandy
Hard-Boiled, A Better Tomorrow, The Killer.
- ronin
Almost anything with Chow Yun Fat before he came stateside. =)
- ronin
Johnnie To's "Fulltime Killer" 2001, starring Andy Lau
- Adrian
Once Upon a Time in China. Infernal Affairs.
- ronin
Infernal Affairs II
- Adrian
The Police Story series.
- Stephen Mack #TeamMomo
from iPhone
Bodyguard from Beijing.
- Stephen Mack #TeamMomo
from iPhone
Listen to Ronin and Adrian. =)
- Anika
Oh, I have seen Once Upon a Time in China, and loved it. Are the sequels worth watching?
- Jandy
I am totally saving this thread.
- AJ Batac
While not really a proper genre pic, there is Wong Kar Wai's "Fallen Angel", which uses some of the trappings of the genre as it's backdrop for an awesome movie.
- Adrian
What Ronin said.
- Steven Perez
Now that I'm looking at my queue, I'm gonna guess that my HK rentals were done at 20/20 because mostly I'm seeing Hindi, anime ancient samurai and Chinese movies. Time and Tide is a good movie. I liked Brother, but mostly because I like Beat Takeshi. Moonlight Express is a pretty movie and interesting in the Japan/China mix, but the acting was pretty bad. Ooh, and The Blind Swordsman: Zatoichi is awesome. Adding Deadful Melody.
- Anika
Parts 2 and 3 are awesomesauce, Jandy.
- Steven Perez
When I get back from swim class, I'll add the Hindi and Punjabi action flicks. Thakshak, Gupt, Kaminey are fun. Some people liked Kala Pani. I hated it, but that could have been the awful subtitles.
- Anika
Oh, I forgot I was gonna do a separate thread for Bollywood - you can put them in there, Anika.
- Jandy
i always like watching kung fu hustle
- Imabug
The sequels to Once Upon a Time in China were ok. I think they get progressively worse so watch 'em at your own peril. =)
- ronin
yeah, i'd skip the Once Upon a Time in China sequels
- Imabug
And if you liked Once Upon a Time you should probably check out Fong Sai-Yuk.
- ronin
And I know they're not Asian, but Third World Cop and Dancehall Queen are great action movies. Paul Campbell is excellent in both sides of the law.
- Anika
Bullet in the head.
- Carlos Ayala
from iPhone
City on Fire. (the "inspiration" for Reservoir Dogs)
- Carlos Ayala
from iPhone
Sonatine
- Carlos Ayala
from iPhone
In the vein of more-funny-than-action, I'd recommend the Royal Tramp movies w/Stephen Chow.
- Jennifer Dittrich
A Better Tomorrow kick-started the entire HK "heroic bloodshed" genre. The Killer and Hard Boiled are refinements. Bullet in the Head. Then, leaving John Woo flicks, God of Gamblers is a nice action/comedy blend. Then add some Jackie Chan era flicks: Police Story, Drunken Master 2, Supercop, Who Am I. High Risk (comedy/action) features Jet Li as the bodyguard to "Asia's top action star...
more...
- Andrew C (✓)
I looove Stephen Chow but he did mostly humor in his early stuff which may not be for everyone. Forbidden City Cop and The God of Cookery are personal favs. King of Comedy wasn't too bad either. Plus you might want to check out God of Gamblers 1 & 2.
- ronin
Tokyo Fist
- Carlos Ayala
from iPhone
Violent Cop
- Carlos Ayala
from iPhone
"The God of Cookery"? Is Tom Colicchio involved with this? :p
- Jandy
For more modern flicks, SPL is a good crime/martial arts flick let down by one preposterous plot point, but still worth seeing. Ip Man and Fearless are modern takes on historical kung fu.
- Andrew C (✓)
Fireworks (Hana-bi)
- Carlos Ayala
from iPhone
Andrew, I just saw a trailer for Ip Man 2, I think, and was definitely intrigued. I think Ip Man might've just hit Instant Watch. I'll have to check.
- Jandy
One more: Shark Skin Man and Peach Hip Girl. I didn't like this, but it's a movie.
- Anika
Ichi The Killer
- Carlos Ayala
from iPhone
Anika, LOL.
- Jandy
+++ God of Gamblers
- Carlos Ayala
from iPhone
Battle Royale
- Carlos Ayala
from iPhone
Oh, this topic reminds me - sometimes American distributors make edits to the movie to suit American tastes or just for running time, even today. For "Hero", for example - which you probably have heard of - I would recommend watching it once with the American subtitling to get the story straight, and once with the "109 minute" (more like 104 as far as I can tell) cut, which IMO is worth it for the fuller story.
- Andrew C (✓)
To my surprise, the action in hardboiled was so overdrawn I got bored (same with Face-Off). The Replacement Killers was perfect, IMO.
- Mark Horne
Tony Leung Chiu-Wai is a fantastic actor and you should see as many of his films as you can. Which is not to say he's a guarantee of quality, because he made a lot of movies, but still. He's very good.
- Andrew C (✓)
yeah man i had all the classic woo stuff and most of the ones i mentioned above on VHS. most of those i paid 30 balls a pop for too. i gave them all away eventually.
- Carlos Ayala
from iPhone
Oh, I forgot Fist of Legend, Tai Chi Master, and Wing Chun.
- Andrew C (✓)
Internal affairs trilogy… So Close… A Better Tomorrow… Time and Tide… Iron Monkey… 14 blades… Battles without Honors… Lady Snow Blood… Female Convict Scorpion… The Audition… That new Karate kid?
- Remo
Female Convict Scorpion? I missed that one, Remo, I need to step my game up! :P
- Adrian
Gotta go with "The Killer" as well, though frankly it doesn't age as well as you'd think.
- Ciaoenrico
Carlos, me too! I collected a lot of the Hong Kong and Beat Takeshi releases on VHS, sold them off when we moved. Now it's too easy, they are everywhere. I've been digging the Tokyo new horror stuff myself lately. Ichi the Killer FTW!
- Adrian
Ok, since we are spreading out of Hong Kong, there is Takashi Miike's "Dead or Alive". Trippy-ass movie with the craziest ending ever. Crazy as in ZANY, but in a good way.
- Adrian
no action flick neither from Hong Kong but I really felt “The Taste of Tea”… funky forest haha and what the heck …Tokyo Zombie. Miike also did the Yattaman movie… but don’t expect no Ichi the Killer.
- Remo
The Thai film "Chocolate" (2008)
- Bluesun 2600
Yeah, Chocolate, Ong Bak, and Tom Yum Goong/The Protector.
- Andrew C (✓)
I liked running out of time and running out of time 2 - not must watches but if you like the first one (with andy lau), you'll probably like the second one
- Wang Yip
Stephen Chow also scored a big hit with Shaolin Soccer. It's basically a comedy sports movie with crazy kung fu stunts, and it's great fun. I was wracking my brains earlier trying to think of a good Sammo Hung vehicle, and it's taken me till now to remember the Magnificent Butcher. Oh, and Jackie Chan's Drunken Master 1 is worth seeking out too, if only to marvel at how he did the sequel nearly 20 years later and pulled off, if anything, bigger and better fight scenes.
- Andrew C (✓)
周润发，是我们的偶像啊，In China
- 阿石
Kol Tregaskes to Kol's feed, TheNextWeb Forum, Social Media, Social Media Club, Social Media Enthusiasts, Appetite
Could Cliqset Save Buzz? They Sure Are Trying To - http://thenextweb.com/apps...
Mark Andrew Catton, JSLeFanu, Brian and 3 other people liked this
"If you were to peek around the shoulders of your coworkers as they opened Gmail, it would seem that more often than not the little Buzz tab has a sad number next to it: 100+. That is the maximum unread messages that Google will alert you of having. For many more the real number is in the thousands, they just don’t check Buzz like the did when it launched. Social aggregation and curation startup Cliqset is out to change that by more than just integrating Buzz into their product, which they have started to do today, but also by making it pretty. That matters more than you might guess. Go into Gmail and open up Buzz. Look at it, there is good information to be had, but it is not laid out in an attractive format. Take a look at what Cliqset has done with what you see there [above]:"
- Kol Tregaskes
from Bookmarklet
What is your Google Buzz username? Mine is kolint
Slavomira, Wang Yip, gunes and 63 other people liked this
Feel free to add me here: http://buzz.google.com/kolint or via here: http://www.google.com/profile... #whatsyoururl #googlebuzz
- Kol Tregaskes
sunipeyk
- sunipeyk
www.google.com/profiles/mehmetali.abbasoglu
- noktasizvirgul
We're still rolling out Buzz to everyone, so if you don't see it in your Gmail account yet, check back soon.
- Niranjan
Cool. I only had to wait 24 hours. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
consultfab
- Bryan R. Adams
dannyrowley
- Daniel Rowley
Some people have the follow button on their profiles and some don't.
- Kol Tregaskes
Tutivillus - http://www.google.com/profile...
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
Thanks guys.
- Kol Tregaskes
Added.
- Kol Tregaskes
AlexScrivener http://www.google.com/profile...
- Alex Scrivener
http://www.google.com/profile... - Ted Gilchrist
- Ted Gilchrist
Justin, your link doesn't work.
- Kol Tregaskes
Justin, I think you meant: http://www.google.com/profile...
- Kol Tregaskes
I think that's on the wrong thread, WarLord?
- Kol Tregaskes
Cutting and pasting is teh fail http://www.google.com/profile...
- WarLord
Ah. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
http://www.google.com/profile... ..... Tatty Gibson, only just found all this so i added lol
- Tatty Gibson
mastercko. http://buzz.google.com/masterc...
- Chieze Okoye
All fixed. Thanks for catching that, Kol.
- Justin Korn
My page is here: http://www.google.com/profile...
- Zulema ❧ spicy cocoa tart
http://www.google.com/profile... Here is my user name, I am following you.
- Jason
No problem, Justin. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
notoriousxl :)
- Andrea (Notorious)
http://www.google.com/profile... ah! finally! :-)
- browneyes
Is it weird that I'm finding new folks to follow on FF and ignoring the google profiles? Carry on ...
- cdogzilla | downgraded
everyone aboard the ark as FF floods!
- Vezquex
Just followed you Kol... Feel free to add me http://buzz.google.com/vixted
- victed
I'm on the Googlay Buzzes! http://www.google.com/profile...
- Brad Williamson
So. Your all deserting friendfeed for Google Buzz? Or are you all going to use both? Just wondering......
- Technogran
My #googlebuzz username is thierry.andriamirado . Feel free to add me here: http://bit.ly/aHQbBP
- Thierry R. Andriamirado
zjemily |~~p
- Zu from AOD
http://www.google.com/profile... (Cris Fugate, aka Jony Winter)
- Cris Fugate
Thedudeguru
- Jason Williams
from iPhone
Sandra, mainly on FriendFeed. Google Buzz looks very cool but it's lacking a lot of features that make be a regular for me.
- Kol Tregaskes
LOL, Patrick. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
This is scary but here is mine http://www.google.com/profile...
- BRҰANSAҰS
http://google.com/profile... - a bit late to the party, I guess.
- Ryan - @magicofpi
http://www.google.com/profile... .... and here goes my last bit of privacy ;-)
- denise
same as FriendFeed
- JSLeFanu
Bumping for Nicholas.
- Kol Tregaskes
No worries. :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
chaz2b2
- chaz2b
Thanks guys.
- Kol Tregaskes
Thanks guys.
- Kol Tregaskes
Bump.
- Kol Tregaskes
YAY! I am pleased to announce that I have been hired by Dell, Inc. I'm joining their global Social Media team! More juicy details soon. #Job
Mitchell Tsai, Victor Ryden 美久太阿, Steve Cleary and 50 other people liked this
Congratulations!!
- Anne Bouey
Dude! ;) Congrats.
- Jack&Cleo
Rock it.
- Louis Gray
Congrats! How big is the global Social Media team?
- Paola Bonomo
susan, congrats!
- imabonehead
"I can see my butt from space!" Congrats!
- Josh Haley
from iPhone
Josh is loosin' it! haha
- Susan Beebe
@Paola - good question. I don't know yet :)
- Susan Beebe
Huge congrats, Susan. How exciting. :)
- Micah
Yup, very exciting!!! :)
- Susan Beebe
Congratulations!
- MugeCerman
Congrats :)
- Rodfather
Congratulations!
- joey
Congrats Susan!
- Michael Fidler
Hi susanatdell! : )
- Erhan Erdoğan
from iPhone
Congrats.
- Eric - seven eleven
Congrats!
- FFing Enigma
Nice!
- Kevin L
Congrats!
- Justin Korn
Thanks ya'll !! :)
- Susan Beebe
Congratulations
- WooEB
Congratulations Susan! They are lucky to have you!
- Martha
I'd be interested to know if you get a Streak instead of a Blackberry :)
- Nick B.
Congratulations!
- Fish Are LIES
Congrats, Susan!
- Alex Schleber
Nick - haha I'll be on the warpath for a Streak as part of my co. issued equipment list! :D Fring app allows 2 way video conf. -- just like facetime on iPhone... so cool
- Susan Beebe
Yay, Susan!! Does this mean you get a Streak as a "welcome to the job" gift? ;)
- JA Castillo
Congrats!
- Ruchira S. Datta
Congrats!
- Barbara R. S.
Congrats :)
- Vikas SN
Congrats!
- Dan York
wow, THANKS... so many kind folks here on FriendFeed :) *** Group HUG ***
- Susan Beebe
The first person to write a blog post of 400 words or more explaining how LeBron going to Miami was like FriendFeed going to Facebook... wins. P.S. We are Cleveland in this story. :)
Wang Yip, chrisofspades, Oyunlar1 and 10 other people liked this
Who is Lebron?
- Jesse Stay
I lost you at <basketball guy>.
- Micah
It would make sense if LeBron's game in Miami will be dramatically different than his game in Cleveland. It will change somewhat, but not dramatically.
- John E. Bredehoft
school marm
- Liza + = ?
AHHHHHHH! Hold on, hold on, give me...crap, I'm too lazy to do this.
- Mike Nayyar
So we are too humid in the summer and too cold in the winter, have no jobs, a bad economy, and Facebook has hot girls and a beautiful beach and... I see your point.
- Eric - seven eleven
Oh, and working on it.
- Eric - seven eleven
If he's heading to Florida, that means he's preparing for retirement I suppose.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
I'm not going to write a blog post, but I can see it. He's no longer going to be the only guy running the show. And I'm pretty sure I remember people feeling pretty abandoned around here when the FF team changed allegiances.
- Victor Ganata
http://www.cstechcast.com/blog... (I hope there aren't too many typos)
- Eric - seven eleven
In which I lose Louis Gray's "feeling betrayed" challenge http://empoprise-bi.blogspot.com/2010...
- John E. Bredehoft
Nice one John.
- Eric - seven eleven
from iPhone
Hello Cleveland!!! *said while wandering around lost trying to find the entrance to the stage*
- Laura Norvig
Wow, John, that was a full court press.
- Micah
Brain Management - http://dilbert.com/blog...
Wang Yip and Michael R. Bernstein liked this
Scott Adams understands creativity and music. That's one of the major reasons why open floor plans where Software Engineers engaged in creative work are expected to put on headphones to pump music into their ears while working just strike me as absurdly stupid. The book "Peopleware" covers this in great depth. You cannot be creative while pumping music into your ears.
- Piaw Na
Everyone's process is different. Music works for me.
- Andrew C (✓)
I do think open plan offices are counter-productive, though.
- Andrew C (✓)
How do you know you aren't missing a much better way of doing certain things because you have music piped through your ears? DeMarco and Lister cited a CMU experiment that was very convincing. If you haven't done so, read that chapter of Peopleware.
- Piaw Na
I've read Peopleware, but not recently. I don't play music 100% of my time at the office (and I have had a cubicle with high walls before - way fewer distractions/interruptions than open plan) and IME music works well for me.
- Andrew C (✓)
Answers at Stack Overflow do vary: http://stackoverflow.com/questio...
- Andrew C (✓)
Well, works well for you could be great. But you might have been missing valuable insights all these years. How would you quantify the value of insights you never had but could have if you didn't need music to drown out the noise?
- Piaw Na
The experiment Peopleware cite worked like this. A class of CS students were split in two, and given identical algorithms to implement. One group was allowed music (through headphones) while they did the implementation, while the other were placed in silent rooms, and music was not allowed. Both groups had identical success in terms of bug count, performance, etc. There was one hitch,...
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- Piaw Na
I am sufficiently impressed with my current level of brilliance. =)
- Andrew C (✓)
If what you're working on is mechanical (e.g., filing expense reports, playing WoW), then I doubt if music would affect your performance. And I'm well aware that I'm only half as smart as other people in Silicon Valley, so I need my entire brain to do what others need to do with only half their brains. I know you feel differently, but I've never said to myself, "I'm already smart enough." But then again, you probably have never had Sim Peng-Toh as your roommate for a semester.
- Piaw Na
Well, I am being 30-40% facetious here. I would also suggest that how one enjoys music (and what sorts of music one enjoys) affects the phenomenon here. Programming and lyrics-driven music don't work that well for me, not if I actually want to actively listen to the lyrics. Conversely, perhaps as a not-that-musical person myself, instrumental music does not occupy too much of my brain because I don't listen to it in a consciously analytical fashion.
- Andrew C (✓)
Sure! But the most frequent excuse I've ever heard for having a poor workplace environment which is noisy is that "People can always put on headphones and stuff music into their ears." In fact, Google went so far as to hand out noise-cancelling headphones to engineers when they joined. At that point, you know you're not just listening to music because you want to. You're listening to music to drown out other distractions.
- Piaw Na
And yes, I do worry about not getting enough sleep, etc. One thing I always tell people who are thinking about interviewing at Google is: "If you wake up and are filling even a little bit ill, don't show for the interview. Call and say I'm sorry, I'm sick I need to reschedule." The issue here is that if you're sick you can't know how degraded your intellectual performance is. Similarly,...
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- Piaw Na
How many of those work-from-home (or in private offices) people put on music, though? Cause seriously, some people do. Writers, when they talk about their routines, they're /all over the map/. Different things work for different people, and sometimes I feel Scott Adams doesn't get that with these kinds of posts.
- Andrew C (✓)
Yes, but unless you experiment and keep track, it's hard to figure it out. My suspicion is that most people who slap on headphones and music never do so. And it's such a long feedback cycle. You can't get a brilliant insight one day and not the next under identical conditions. That's why it's so challenging to do such work. When I read that study, I just decided to do without music, because you know what? I've never been smart enough to risk losing the insight that my right brain provides.
- Piaw Na
And people wonder why the half-life of an engineering career is about 7-years.
- Piaw Na
Can a “Head of Social” help Google fend off Facebook? - http://social.venturebeat.com/2010...
birhan yel, Zu from AOD, Laura Norvig and 13 other people liked this
"A prospective “Head of Social” will have to confront many more deep, underlying cultural issues at Google. The company’s focus on data and sheer computing power have often come at the expense of its empathy and understanding of user experience in social products. This culture made it acceptable for Google Buzz’s designers to think that algorithmically inferring your friends from Gmail would be okay. There was a telling observation by early Facebook investor and PayPal co-founder Peter Thiel in the forthcoming book, “The Facebook Effect,” He said: ”A very profound difference is, I think, at its core, Google believes that at the end of this globalization process the world will be centered on computers, and computers will be doing everything…. The Facebook model is radically different. One of the things that is critical about good globalization in my mind is that in some sense humans maintain mastery over technology, rather than the other way around. The value of the company...
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- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
What does the photo have to do with anything? Are the dancing nerds supposed to illustrate being antisocial or something?
- Gabe
I think the picture is just amusing Gabe.
- Paul Buchheit
Excactly.
- Paul Buchheit
would be funny if facebook's product team needed a "Head of Social"
- karl dotter
Ay, Google has many problems in this regard. However: "The Facebook model is radically different. One of the things that is critical about good globalization in my mind is that in some sense humans maintain mastery over technology" is a joke in light of Facebook's labyrinthine privacy settings.
- Alex Schleber
IF you guys wanted to, within days you could empower users thus: Forced choice for each user on their next login: 1) I want everything to be completely private, no one but my friends sees nothing. 2) I want everything to be completely open. 3) I want to muddle through with the detailed settings somewhere in the middle,which will be my responsibiliy. --- And then arrange people's detail...
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- Alex Schleber
Alex: Most people don't want either completely public (who wants their phone number available to everyone?) or completely private (who doesn't want people to be able to find them?). The only desirable choice for most users would be to sit there muddling through complex settings that they don't understand, just so they can get their next Farmville fix. That's like asking people to read a legal document before they can use software.
- Gabe
NYU Students Aim To Invent Facebook (Again). We’ve Got Your Back. - http://www.wired.com/epicent...
Wang Yip and Thomas Power liked this
Congratulations, Apple: You Lost Another Prototype iPhone? - The Consumerist #LOL - http://consumerist.com/2010...
Rob H., Wang Yip, Scoble, Alex Scoble and 3 other people liked this
"The internet is all a flutter over pictures from Vietnamese forum Taoviet.vn that seem to show a new lost iPhone 4G prototype. This one is all "16GB", turns on, and once ripped apart, appears to contain an Apple-branded processor. Enjoy."
- Steven Perez
from Bookmarklet
You know, I was just about to ask if Chen had been arrested yet. I guess this answers my question.
- Steven Perez
Yeah, they "lost" another prototype.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
Wonder how long it will be before we invade Vietnam again. :D
- Steven Perez
Checkbook journalism is about the only way to cover apple products pre-release
- Chris Heath
hopefully never
- Chris Heath
This rankles the "hmmm, coincidence?" senses... any chances these are plants?
- alphaxion
I assumed that Apple would start chaining pre-release phones to employees' wrists. Add a plastic baggie so they can still take showers at home, and done.
- Andrew C (✓)
Finally catching up on yesterday's 300 comment flame-fest. I only posted about my own personal privacy settings, but I was immediately accused of drinking the Kool-Aid, and I believe the words "Nazi" and "pimp" were thrown around as well. This is an incredibly emotional issue, which unfortunately makes rational discussion very difficult.
Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど, Zu from AOD, Keith Adams and 50 other people liked this
I suspect that it's actually the issue of control (people aren't confident that they have it) more than privacy that causes so much angst, but I could be wrong.
- Paul Buchheit
*wondering what the Kool-Aid Man looks like in a brownshirt and fur hat with a pheasant feather*
- Spidra Webster
That's an awesome image Spidra!
- Paul Buchheit
This is what happens to alot of the active users, we started turning on each other after the purchase, because there wasn't any new blood to interact with. I think some of us have gotten used to it by now, it happens a few times a week.
- Jimminy IS Everybody
Both Google and Facebook are asking people to trade privacy for value. Google has simply been smarter about it IMO. They've been *marketing* privacy (catch that 100K/day visits to dashboard post). Whereas Facebook has been marketing feature value - perhaps in hopes of convincing people to exchange that privacy for value. I wrote a bit about this today: http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/have-fa...
- AJ Kohn
Paul for all of the irrational name calling, there are many more who admire you and like you. Don't be discouraged.
- Shakeel Mahate
Thanks Shakeel.
- Paul Buchheit
Privacy is what other people agree not to pass along; Publicity is what they are willing to pass along.
- Cliff Gerrish
from iPhone
Paul, I have a lot of respect for you and did not make any comments around your words but I am very opposed to the auto-opt-in stance that Facebook is taking. It shows little respect to FB's users. The difference with FF vs FB is that FB started out being a 'private culture'. A site should not switch that mid-stream.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Mark, I don't agree with everything Facebook does either, but that's not what I was posting about :)
- Paul Buchheit
Sorry, still worked up about that and didn't see the 300+ topic I guess. ;-)
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
=(
- Shevonne
*fist bump* Paul.
- Derrick
I think that it is because Facebook made a promise initially to offer a space where people could share privately things with their friends. People are feeling betrayed. Emotions are a lot more powerful then reasoning when it comes to decision making. Aren't you the one who needs to know why a startup is doing what they are doing before investing? In this case, facebook seems to be changing the why/what they believe in.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Paul, I think the people here hold the FriendFeed team in high regard, and you personally. Resorting to name calling is always a bad move, and those who went that direction made the wrong move. I hope you can help your new colleagues make sharp decisions and help them become more transparent - so that we can understand what is currently not understood.
- Louis Gray
Not just a chat room over at FB, Increasing Journalism, Political, Bricks and Mortar Interface new territory.
- Thomas Page
Edwin, Facebook's mission is to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected. Although I don't always agree with their methods, I believe that's a good and valuable mission.
- Paul Buchheit
@Paul: I think share is understood but open can be scary and connected even more so once people ... connect the dots.
- AJ Kohn
That's a good and valuable mission, but they mean open in the sense of "open book" and not "open platform". Furthermore, I get the impression that they're deliberately letting confusion over that distinction remain.
- Mr. Gunn
Paul, decent people (which were a majority of voices in that thread I believe) respect you, as do I. I've had some of the most rational, constructive discussions I can recall right here on FriendFeed - you and the team made that possible, and a whole virtual community here knows it. It's also an outlet for passionate expression and I have good friends here because of it. Just wanted to say thanks again.
- Micah
I wrote a somewhat confusing blog post about that last year Mr. Gunn: http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2009...
- Paul Buchheit
Paul. This is a good mission statement. I was just trying to give you the perspective of the users and what they think the purpose of facebook is. I think that the good news is that there is probably a balance (example: facebook connect is great where the instant personalization is perceived as just a way to make a quick buck - and very damaging to trust). To facebook's credit, although...
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- Edwin Khodabakchian
Paul, that you claim to have no idea what kind of information people might want to post to Facebook but keep private seems like a problem. One clear example that I often think about: a mother who left an abusive partner and now wants to be able to post updates and kid photos etc. but only let approved friends view them, not for example family members of the abuser. Very reasonable, and...
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- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Marshall, I never said that. It's easy to imagine things that people don't want public (pretty much everything in my email, for starters). What I asked is not for hypotheticals though, but what people here were concerned about personally. I find it's much more informative to get direct concerns rather than concerns that people imagine other people having.
- Paul Buchheit
Ok, fair enough, sorry to have mischarecterized this: "I'm curious what everyone here is putting on their fb that is so secret? Maybe I'm doing it wrong. There are certainly things that I don't want out there (like my credit card numbers), but I'm not going to put that on my fb profile." The scenario described above isn't a hypothetical, fwiw, it's exactly where one of my close friends is on Facebook.
- Marshall Kirkpatrick
Paul, if I'm worried about certain things becoming public on FB, why would I tell you exactly what I fear becoming public when this is a public thread on FriendFeed and will be on Google in 5 minutes if it isn't already?
- Spidra Webster
Spidra, I meant the class of info (e.g. my credit card number), not the specific info (559234325323425).
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, you are so pimp and I mean that in the best way possible.
- Scoble, Alex Scoble
Thanks Alex :)
- Paul Buchheit
I like Friendfeed for these kind of discussions.
- Ashish
I understand, but some stuff doesn't neatly fall into that category (credit card #, financial details) and even talking about it in general would basically give the game away. I don't think it's a coincidence that most of the folks who take the attitude "there is no such thing as privacy on the internet and you're a sucker for expecting there to be any" are men. Men, as a general category, are not as subject to stalking, domestic violence and rape.
- Spidra Webster
Paul, I think you've hit the nail on the head, if only for my own issue with Facebook. I don't mind that there are services that are public: I'm fully aware that my FriendFeed and Twitter profiles are public, and I want them that way. What gets me about Facebook is that, ostensibly, there's some claim Facebook is making that privacy is an important thing, but it's so incredibly...
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- Mark Trapp
Being a man, I can't win that debate Spidra.
- Paul Buchheit
Thanks, Paul. And the expiration date?
- Bruce Lewis
10/10 I think.
- Paul Buchheit
I personally consider facebook to be a private sphere (following people/family that I know enough that I would consider inviting them to my daughters wedding). There are a lot of things that I currently share on facebook that I would not share on twitter. For example, one of my daughters is having a heart surgery on Monday. She is getting a lot of support on facebook and I will use...
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- Edwin Khodabakchian
Mark, part of the problem is that efforts to simplify the privacy controls (which I agree are very complicated) are generally not well received, because it means taking away options.
- Paul Buchheit
Edwin, I posted all of my daughter's surgeries on her blog (not that I'm saying everyone should do that). I can understand that not everyone feels comfortable with that, but I'm still curious if there's a specific fear, or just a general discomfort?
- Paul Buchheit
My take is that it is not so much privacy that people are upset about (although I'm sure that there are people who are genuinely upset about privacy), but an interrupted feeling of closeness.
- Clare Dibble
Paul, maybe it isn't about "winning". Maybe it's about entertaining the idea that some people have different experiences in life. That while you and others may be fine with the wall of the garden being knocked down, others aren't. And those others may have very valid reasons for feeling that way. It's about trying to put yourself in their shoes and imagine what it might be like to be in that position.
- Spidra Webster
Paul, I understand that, but there are still things that just seem anti-user, even considering how much pushback you guys get on changing things. A couple of examples: you can't wholesale delete classes of items (like the activity on the wall), you can't prevent activity (like commenting and changing your profile) from appearing on your wall or your friends' newsfeeds, and, if you've been able to find the option to do so, deleting an account takes two weeks to do.
- Mark Trapp
You're right, winning is a poor choice of words. What I meant to say was that the statement implied to me that I simply couldn't understand because I'm a man.
- Paul Buchheit
I love social media and have participated in it extensively since getting on the 'net. It's not that I don't want to participate. It's that I want to be in control or at least notified AHEAD OF TIME of what is public and what isn't. Facebook keeps moving the goalposts and not being upfront with users about it. They do a piss poor job of communicating with users. They implement new...
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- Spidra Webster
My person view is that I'm very likely to share information publicly but get hesitant when settings are changed without me changing them. I like the concept of Open Social but let me decide that I want to share my Pandora channels with my Facebook friends, not the other way around. The fear is that FB is deciding what info to link together and if you don't pay attention new links will...
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- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Hey, Paul, I was just kidding with you about the Kool-Aid thing, man. To lump my light-hearted jest in with 'Nazi' is a bit much and I think you know that.
- Akiva
Sorry Akiva.
- Paul Buchheit
What I mean is like a group of friends hanging out, cracking inside jokes in a public place when and outsider wanders by and tries to join the fun. Following peoples daily rituals and struggles is a form of intimacy and people literally feel a bit naked in front of the world when that goes to a close group of friends to "everyone". But we have seen communities of strangers become good friends because of it here on friendfeed.
- Clare Dibble
Yeah, I think that's a pretty good example Clare. It changes people's behavior when they don't know who is listening. However, once all of your family, co-workers, etc are on there, I feel like a lot of that is already lost because it's such a diverse group.
- Paul Buchheit
No social network has gotten the "Circles of friends" piece right yet. There are friends and then there are FRIENDS. Then there are co-workers and CO-WORKERS. Then family, classmates, etc. Each of those grouping a person has a different set of "openness" with. I want a professional image with Co-Workers but maybe be a little more open (passing a NSFW joke) to other sets of friends.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
The controls for privacy (and much of the UI in general) are too byzantine on Facebook. One gets the feeling it's set up like insurance, where you're meant not to get past certain steps. I'm not saying that's how it was designed - just that it feels that way. All that said, people need to take more personal responsibility for what they share online. And there IS reason to be careful. I...
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- AJ Kohn
Using the Pandora example: I may listen to Death Metal and now my HR rep looks me over for a promotion as they now have a new image of me. HR would have never looked at Pandora before this FB linkage. It's a hypothetical but those stories will happen.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Paul, I think you provided a public service yesterday by kindly allowing people to flog you as an effigy for their anger over the Facebook changes. Kind of like being in the wrong place at the right time.
- Martha
Not a specific fear. Just a feeling of discomfort.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Mark, if your HR rep overlooks you for promotion based on musical tastes, you should consider looking for a new job. I know that's not practical for everyone, but in general we should fix problems, not hide them.
- Paul Buchheit
It would be convenient if no one ever felt any discomfort about sharing personal information with arbitrary people, but I don't think that's likely to be common any time soon. I think people will always be embarrassed about something. That's just the nature of social groups.
- Seth
Paul, do you really think there is a place where promotions are not based on what the powers that be think of that person?
- Clare Dibble
It was an example but one that can happen. Openness will not fix stereotypes and bias. Many non-web companies and people are not ready for this new world of full transparency. I'm only playing Devil's Advocate btw because I believe in privacy/security first, openness as a feature.
- manielse (Mark Nielsen)
Of course it's an issue Clare, though I expect it's a bigger problem for things like race and gender, which are much harder to hide.
- Paul Buchheit
Seth, I suspect some cultures have much more fear and embarrassment than others, and that the difference is driven in part by secrecy. People are embarrassed because they feel uniquely weird/defective. They will feel better if they know they're not alone.
- Paul Buchheit
I'm still proud of my bus/taxi metaphor. =)
- Andrew C (✓)
Paul, I'm sure there's some of that, but there are lots of other issues tied to the things people choose not to share. For example, if I had an ongoing serious medical issue, I might just not want to get into it with everyone I meet, even if it's not something I'm ashamed of.
- Seth
Just so that no legends are created here, here is the actual "Nazi reference", which was specifically NOT raised against either Paul or Facebook, but against the WORDING of some of the arguments: "Chris/Darren, just because 'they did it in a VERY impressive and powerful way' doesn't mean we all have to like it. The same could be said e.g. for the Nazi's taking over Germany. [Later..]...
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- Alex Schleber
Yeah, it's just that the arrival of Nazi's are usually a bad sign for a discussion.
- Paul Buchheit
Well, Facebook's 500M users raises the stakes by a good bit. Don't forget, Paul, you're on the inside looking out, we're on the outside looking in. There's no getting around that.
- Alex Schleber
Paul, you say: "I suspect some cultures have much more fear and embarrassment than others, and that the difference is driven in part by secrecy. People are embarrassed because they feel uniquely weird/defective. They will feel better if they know they're not alone." --- Now you're really starting to freak me out with this Orwell-Speak. I am dead serious, maybe check for group think every once in a while.
- Alex Schleber
What Orwell-Speak Alex? People form support groups for a reason.
- Paul Buchheit
Alex, I get the impression that Paul's question isn't about Facebook at all. This is something he's been talking about since before Facebook approached FriendFeed.
- Bruce Lewis
Yeah, I'm one of the people who thought Facebook was too closed.
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, I thought Facebook was too closed, too. That's why I chose to use networks like Twitter and Friendfeed. I left Facebook for the people who wanted a closed network, because that's of high value to a lot of people. With Facebook abandoning its original vision of a closed network with close control over who you share information with, I'd argue that it's lost the very thing that made it different and valuable. And opening it up hasn't made it more valuable to me, either.
- Jandy
One question: it seems that with likes improving both user profile information and metadata around a lot of the fresh/interesting content around the web, Facebook has enough moving parts to, in an aggregate/privacy safe fashion, create a very competitive search solution, one that Google might have trouble competing with because of inferior profile information. Is there a reason why Facebook is so aggressive with regard to privacy? Isn't search the big monetization opportunity?
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Fine, that's your right, Paul. But why do all of the other FB users have to be on board? If they wanted super open, they would have been on Friendfeed like the rest of us, no? But people flocked into FB to a large extent because of the "Walled Garden" feel.
- Alex Schleber
Edwin, I doubt that you'll believe me, but I contrary to popular opinion, it's not about monetization.
- Paul Buchheit
So then what is Zuck's grand ultimate vision, Paul? If you're allowed to say, just tell us.
- Alex Schleber
Alex, "to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected".
- Paul Buchheit
I have huge respect for you so I believe you. May be you should have started instant personalization with some non profit organizations and demonstrate the power of more open in a different context. Specially given how much bad rap Yelp has been getting lately.
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Edwin, if it were up to me, that's not the only thing that would be different about instant personalization.
- Paul Buchheit
"they will feel better" = Orwell-Speak. And BTW, support groups place an absolute premium on privacy. If you're found out to be divulging details spoken in private within the group, you're likely to be booted. Please, leave the psychology to the psychologists/counselors (and Zuck's bit of undergrad psych that Scoble is so in love with doesn't count either - I'd say he knows just enough to be a little dangerous in terms of sucking people in).
- Alex Schleber
"to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected" --- I thought that's what the entire Web was for?! It would seem he took a rather indirect path to that then, wouldn't you say?
- Alex Schleber
Alex, my daughter was in the hospital for three months and we chronicled the entire thing on her blog. Not only did we meet other people as a result, but other people in similar situations said that it really helped to see her story. This isn't theoretical for me, and it's not "Orwell-Speak".
- Paul Buchheit
I thought FB was just private enough (before). Again, different tools, different benefits. For example, allowing just everyone to email me on LinkedIn would /reduce/ LI's utility, not increase it...
- Andrew C (✓)
Why does he think he needs to "give people the power"? Are we all defective then in his view?
- Alex Schleber
Seriously?
- Paul Buchheit
Paul, I am very sorry about whatever happened to your daughter, and am glad if you and/or anyone else found comfort in sharing very openly online. But you cannot simply extrapolate from your experience to everyone elses. Therein lies the rub exactly. You persist despite the fact that people on the prior thread were disagreeing with you somewhere around 5:1.
- Alex Schleber
How do you mean?
- Alex Schleber
Your "we are all defective" line, as though every tool-maker is insulting humanity. Is truth a matter of opinion for you?
- Paul Buchheit
People aren't socially broken when they adjust their behaviour and public face to fit certain contexts. I would argue that (within reason) such behaviour is actually well-adjusted. (sorry, I'm catching up in bits and pieces here and my point with this was related to the Pandora/death metal hypothetical.)
- Andrew C (✓)
Also, if everyone agreed with me, there would be no point in discussing it :)
- Paul Buchheit
Not every toolmaker gives out business cards that read: "I'm CEO, Bitch!"
- Alex Schleber
Alex, I think he (Zuck) sees the software as a way to HELP people more easily share and connect. Of course, we can do that without FB (or the internet for that matter), but these tools allow us to do it more efficiently. For example, right now FF is allowing us to engage in a discussion about our FB privacy concerns with Paul. I would say that's incredibly empowering.
- Chip Ramsey
Maybe "incredibly" is a bit of a stretch, even though, as we all agreed on above, Friendfeed has been pretty awesome. Facebook is another story...
- Alex Schleber
Well, you have access to someone who can make a difference at Facebook. I wonder if the opportunity hasn't been squandered. Paul, do you feel you actually have a better understanding of people's concerns than before you made your initial post?
- Chip Ramsey
Not dramatically, but discussing something with a semi-hostile crowd is always somewhat enlightening, often in unexpected ways.
- Paul Buchheit
Thanks for taking the time to try to understand Paul
- Chris Myles
Flame fest turned into BBQ. Lemonade out of lemons. I like.
- Josh Haley
See, the world is good. I love BBQ :)
- Paul Buchheit
Semi-hostile = less heated = slow-cook BBQ
- Bruce Lewis
from fftogo
Paul, FWIW, I know you're a smart guy, and I sincerely hope that you're a good guy too, who would speak up (and maybe even quit) if something at FB became a real problem. Of course for that to happen you first have to recognize it as a problem, so if this discussion sticks in your mind someday in the future, then it will have all been worth it.
- Alex Schleber
Alex, I'm sorry if I'm asking you to repeat yourself, but would you mind listing the top few things you think Facebook could do to alleviate your concerns? I know this is an emotional issue for a lot of people, but I think the less emotional and more concise the list, the better it will be. Although there is nothing I can do about FB, I'm working on a business collaboration tool (that...
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- Chip Ramsey
Stepping back, I think that I understand better Paul's passion about making the world more open. I think that there are 2 issues: 1) the perception that facebook is doing this to better profile people and better target them with advertisement. 2) it will take time for people to overcome their "discomfort" of living in the open and it is very important for them to feel in control - right...
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- Edwin Khodabakchian
Paul: You make a lot of good points regarding FB and your personal ideas on privacy. Paradoxically, by trashing privacy, what you and FB are ACTUALLY doing, is making people less transparent, because there's no trust that we can keep private info (or conversations) safe on FB any more. I wouldn't worry though - 99% of users have no idea what FB are doing regarding privacy and you are way too big to suffer. You can (literally) do anything you want.
- Jim Connolly
Privacy / control settings should maybe just be a first-order element on the page, not a tab in a settings area. The mechanism should be simple enough to fit in a 100-200px tall box. If home page is a dashboard, then this control panel should be somewhere there, wouldn't you think?
- Christopher Galtenberg
(Not do this with all control panel elements, obviously. Just those of first-order importance. FB should want this, to obviate its most prominent achilles heel.)
- Christopher Galtenberg
Under Get Connected, a Privacy section with 4-6 simple on/off toggles. Sweetness, problem solved.
- Christopher Galtenberg
MOAR BBQ
- Otto
I am so going on a spending spree with Paul's credit card. First purchase: BBQ for everyone!
- Laura Norvig
Chip, I've been writing up some points late-late last night, getting things in order for a future post. As for Paul/Facebook, it seems pretty clear that they've made up their mind, even though their users already told them with Beacon that they didn't want all of this automatic public stuff, thank you. Apparently, that's not what Zuck wanted to hear.
- Alex Schleber
...Paradoxically, it is FB's either/or stance on this that's at the heart of the problem: Who says they couldn't keep their users' privacy as protected as possible, while also doing useful/innovative/profitable things with the data? I fundamentally disagree that it is somehow necessary to hand as much data as they are doing off to either FB Apps (that's long been a thorn/nuisance) or now to all sorts of 3rd party sites.
- Alex Schleber
I just read all these comments and the ones from yesterday. Before my brain escapes out my ears, I figured I'd get right down to the fundamental issue here: Paul asks this a lot: "What is the specific fear you have with some info being public?" but the problem is that the question itself is missing the point. There does not have to be a specific fear for people to want to keep their own...
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- Otto
I just have to say, OOOH YEAAAAH!!! :-)
- Jesse Stay
+1 Sam Wood.
- Alex Schleber
Well said, Sam. "Why can't you change the nature of what you want? Glass house and all, it's the ideal, haven't you heard? Why can't you just conform?" Well, dammit, because I don't want to, ok? Do you want me as a user or not?
- Christopher Galtenberg
Alex, you wrote to Paul: "You persist despite the fact that people on the prior thread were disagreeing with you somewhere around 5:1." These statistics are flawed. People who disagreed were much more likely to comment. I am not particularly exercised about the issue and have higher priority uses of my time than getting into an argument here. I suspect the same is true of many others. The "5:1" comes from a highly biased sample. My lack of comment should not be taken to mean anything.
- Ruchira S. Datta
And we have already given a fair number of specific examples where privacy is still a desired/assumed good. And while Jesse has been busy calling us paranoid (the only ad hominem in the entire debate so far BTW) and that we should assume that anything we put into the Internet to just be public, the reality is that that would simply reduce the number of Internet based services we use SIGNIFICANTLY (online banking, shopping, IM/email, dating, etc.). ...
- Alex Schleber
...See, the assumption used to be that if your site is password protected, then the stuff inside is at least a lot more private than the Internet at large. Yes, there can be screw-ups/glitches/what have you, but those AREN'T BY DESIGN. Facebook used to be that way: Without login, you couldn't see much of anything. Without somebody being your friend, you couldn't see much of anything about them.
- Alex Schleber
Ruchira: Well, obviously I cannot say anything about a sample that doesn't exist (I was talking about the thread). BTW, your statement that "People who disagreed were much more likely to comment" is merely your opinion. Unless you get some stats to back that up (always question when someone trots out the "silent majority"). And fine, even if it were an even split, are therefore our...
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- Alex Schleber
Here's an idea that could settle things pretty quickly a to user intent: With no equivocation, Facebook could do a forced choice for each user on login: 1) I want everything to be completely private, no one but my friends sees nothing. 2) I want everything to be completely open. 3) I want to muddle through with the detailed settings somewhere in the middle,which will be my responsibiliy.
- Alex Schleber
...THAT would be transparent. A fair up or down vote, with no one left out due to misunderstandings. Of course FB/Zuck/Paul et al. will never go for that, given how much they've already finagled past users.
- Alex Schleber
FWIW I stopped trying to defend it all in that thread because it became hostile. I'm sure there were others afraid to comment, on both sides, as well.
- Jesse Stay
Unsurprisingly, a 300 comment flame-fest erupts from a post about a 300 comment flame-fest.
- Carter ♥ JS
Someone needs to create a plugin that when you click on it the Kool-Aid man comes out and says, "OOOH YEAAAAH!"
- Jesse Stay
Kind of like the Duck plugin
- Jesse Stay
Really this has been remarkably reasonable thread given that the subject matter is charged IMO. No one threatened to delete their Friendeed account yet... :) We know how some of those emo threads on here can go...
- Alex Schleber
The Facebook Kool-Aid Man? I.e. Mark Z.?
- Alex Schleber
i'm deleting everything everywhere! *stomps off whimpering*
- Joe Silence
:P
- Joe Silence
+1 Carter, though I disagree with the "flame-fest" characterization. Paul is thereby making this too easy on himself IMO.
- Alex Schleber
I don't think I ever saw Zuck (or any Facebook employee) deleting their Buzz account after their privacy problems ;-)
- Jesse Stay
Okay, done flaming... ;-)
- Jesse Stay
"to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected" - Paul, I think if, instead of changing the visibility status of previously posted content to a more public setting, FB had said "going forward, your posts will be more public, but the privacy status of your past posts hasn't changed," users would feel that their 'contract' with FB had been changed without...
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- John Craft
There was rightly a lot of scorn heaped upon Google for that and all the other Buzz screw-ups (one of the key one's being not being Friendfeed :). You're evading, Jesse.
- Alex Schleber
Alex, I'm just saying, so long as we're talking about Kool-Aid and pointing to Zuck: http://staynalive.com/article...
- Jesse Stay
http://mattmckeon.com/faceboo... <- good timeline, so we have a bit of a basis to discuss from
- Alex Schleber
Huh. DID ANYBODY NO that Kool-Aid now makes fizzy tablet versions? http://brands.kraftfoods.com/koolaid...
- Otto
Jesse: Haha, while we're on the subject of distracting from the subject at hand... -> http://www.boingboing.net/2010...
- Alex Schleber
"good timeline, so we have a bit of a basis to discuss from" - and for many (all?) of those expansions, a user's awareness was "hey! we just made you more public!" not "in a few days we're going to make you more public." The end result is a loss of trust from FB users who valued the privacy.
- John Craft
http://www.boingboing.net/2010... One great thing for Facebook about all of these Facebook privacy angst stories is that, for the first time, these posts get significantly more "Shares"/"Likes"/etc. than Retweets. Usually, as can be seen from Jesse's Chrome OS post above, tech/geek stuff has 65 Retweets and 3 FB Shares... ;)
- Alex Schleber
Two great lines sum it up: “Facebook has become more scary than fun”, “If I’m looking for a day care for my 6-year-old, I’m going to put that in my status message, not do a Google search.” http://nyti.ms/bqzmm6
- Christopher Galtenberg
I love how the mainstream press refuses to print danah's name in lower case. Or it just gets copyedited out all the time but that would bother me if I were her.
- Laura Norvig
BTW, here is a great tool to verify what Facebook currently really makes public about you, you can see that most everything has already been subsumed into a huge mish-mash of "Likes"... http://zesty.ca/faceboo... and apparently, Hawai'i is now an organization, and Psychology and Philosophy are "Book Genres"...sigh.
- Alex Schleber
Wow, just saw that Facebook "disappeared" my work & edu data in the transition...smooth DB work, guys...it will be interesting to see how much data is actually lost in these coming days & weeks. I have pretty recent counts from FB Ads on about 50 keywords, will compare those with the new #s soon and report back.
- Alex Schleber
I'd feel a LOT more comfortable if Facebook's misson was "to give people the power to share and the power to be open and connected (when appropriate)", and if the tools backed that up and retained the choices *not* to be more open (when appropriate), instead of "to give people the power to share and make the world more open and connected". That whole *MAKE* thing is just way too tyrannical.
- Tinfoil 2.0
@LogEx: Interesting, I hadn't really caught 'make' as a forced connotation but can see how it could be interpreted as such. Would "enable a more open and connected world" be better?
- AJ Kohn
Yes, "make" is what FB has been doing at least since November and "enable" would be better, but the flipside should be explicitly stated too... to allow each user to choose where they want to live on the publicity-privacy spectrum is also essential (even moreso for vulnerable populations). In real life, most people have more privacy [read: choice and control] than publicity. Online communities should support that.
- Tinfoil 2.0
@LogEx: prezactly!
- Fish Are LIES
Oh, and apparently now FB will stab Farmville in the back too...the nerve...what about the animals... :) http://techcrunch.com/2010...
- Alex Schleber
Alex, thank you for the detailed response. I think your suggestion for a simplified three level system is reasonable. I was leaning towards a similar approach as well – settings that are very easy to explain and should rarely (if ever) need to be changed. Although, things get tricky when you're trying to implement an API that provides useful functionality to the third-party apps users choose to authorize.
- Chip Ramsey
It seems to me that the only way to keep API access simple (and useful) is to tell the user that they shouldn't authorize any application they don't want to have full access to their information. In my opinion, expecting users to manage privacy settings on a per application basis is asking too much. Also, allowing customized settings per user and application makes life much more difficult on application developers and probably renders a whole class of collaborative applications useless.
- Chip Ramsey
^^ I'm talking about my own experiences designing an app BTW. Not trying to get everyone riled up again.
- Chip Ramsey
Inspired by this discussion, I have a FB feature request: Facebook Embarrassing Trends, a list of text strings updated hourly. These would be text strings that appeared in a high percentage of Facebook updates that were explicitly made private recently. "Photos from last night's drunken revel" for example. The data would be aggregated, so it wouldn't embarrass any individual. But we'd learn something about ourselves as a society.
- Larry Hosken
Another real example of unintended consequences even only social graphs (i.e. friends lists): http://www.boston.com/bostong... And in case Jesse or anyone else wants to say something like: "Well, you shouldn't want to keep that private anyway" --- this is NOT a discussion over whether anyone anywhere has legitimate privacy wishes, about their sexual orientation or anything else.
- Alex Schleber
...Which BTW still can have immediate real world consequences for members of the U.S. military as you well know. Also, here's this: http://www.binint.com/2010...
- Alex Schleber
Chip, that's the thing, if you asked any users straight up whether anything should be loosened up for the particular delight/easement/practicality of any third-party apps (or even FB itself for that matter), you know the answer is extremely likely to be a resounding NO. Given that, if you are changing things in the background, largely in the fine-print so to speak, just don't delude yourself that it's not sneaky.
- Alex Schleber
Also, is Louis Gray paranoid too here? -> http://www.google.com/buzz... "Facebook has added many FriendFeed-like features, but they have also acted in a way that makes me uncomfortable in terms of changing the rules of privacy in the middle of the game, while also locking away other pieces of content that should, in my...
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- Alex Schleber
Chip, interesting that WIRED just said about the same thing as I did: "Facebook could start with a very simple page of choices: I’m a private person, I like sharing some things, I like living my life in public. Each of those would have different settings for the myriad of choices, and all of those users could then later dive into the control panel to tweak their choices. That would be...
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- Alex Schleber
Here is an interesting post from Jeff Jarvis on the subject: http://www.buzzmachine.com/2010...
- Edwin Khodabakchian
Here is an interesting visualization which showcases the perception problem facebook is having of pushing too aggressively users towards public http://mattmckeon.com/faceboo...
- Edwin Khodabakchian
OK, so Scoble, after initially being somewhat reserved about the consequences of Facebook's actions, is now 110% on board it seems, spying on people's odd musical tastes on Pandora was just too much to resist I guess... -> http://scobleizer.com/2010...
- Alex Schleber
Thanks for the discussion, (gg Alex, Edwin you held for some good points) I enjoyed those two threads a lot. If anyone wanted to know what I think: I share a lot, web pages, thoughts, etc. And any private stuff, I keep in my head for now as it's lot more work openly. We'll see with examples in the future. Got a theory on private stuff: Unless it's data like address or financial details...
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- Zu from AOD
Hey guys, I'm introducing FriendFeed to my colleague Christopher Savoie (http://friendfeed.com/chrissa...). He's our new web designer extraordinaire. Just signed up. Please give him a warm welcome. :)
Zu from AOD, Kol Tregaskes, Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど and 30 other people liked this
Hiya Christopher!
- Spidra Webster
Hey all, Don't i look so emotional in this photo?
- Christopher Savoie
Hi Christopher!
- John (bird whisperer)
Hey Chris, you were wondering awhile ago who to follow? Here's a good list I created -> http://friendfeed.com/fffffri...
- AJ Batac
Hello!
- LB: #TeamMonique
Howdy!
- ronin
Hello Chris!
- Andrew David
Too lazy to comment. Just liked :P
- Kevin L
Awesome community!
- Andrew David
I'mSoPopular
- Christopher Savoie
Here's the room for beginners -> http://friendfeed.com/friendf...
- AJ Batac
Oh HAi!
- sofarsoShawn ~presque...
from iPhone
haha Yeah, River of Noise sounds right, so far. I'll have to take a closer look when i'm not being paid to work haha. Thanks all for the attention, hopefully I'll meet some interesting people here!
- Christopher Savoie
Hey Christopher!
- Mary B: #TeamMonique
Welcome to FF, Christopher!
- DAMMIT, MR. NOODLE
Hi Christopher! Welcome aboard.
- Dan owns Comicsforge.com
Hiya Chris.
- cdogzilla | downgraded
Hello and welcome to FF :)
- Tamara
Hi Chris :)
- LANjackal
Hello Christopher - nice pic!
- Martha
Hi Chris!
- WoH: Professor MOTHRA
Hi Chris (or do you prefer Christopher?)! Make sure AJ shows you the ropes!
- FFing Enigma
Hi Chris. Is that your rockstar pic? Welcome aboard!
- Karma Martell
Hello, Chris
- Ashish
Why, hello there!
- Ordinarybug Heather
Hello!
- adf
Yo!
- .LAG liked that
haha, I can't believe the attention this has recieved. Wow. Thanks guys!
- Christopher Savoie
Welcome, Christopher! :-)
- Kol Tregaskes
hey Christopher!
- VALZ/TEAM TRAVIS
best of the month, look at that. Woo! hey everyone check out my portfolio at http://www.chris-savoie.com
- Christopher Savoie
Concept blogpost: Future web browsing - http://labs.thesedays.com/2010...
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Wang Yip, Dan N. Moldovan, Ekrem AKSOY and 3 other people liked this
Interesting.
- Akiva
Woo hoo!! I drove into the shelter vet with only mild - medium discomfort in my lower back!! Huge improvement from 2 days ago!! Now if we can just get this little Nixie kitten feeling better all will be good!! #foxfosterkittens
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Rob H., Kelly, trinida and 9 other people liked this
They're so sweet!
- Katy S
They are and they are troopers! Nixie is just losing weight not gaining like her sister and we need that to change.
- Rachel Lea Fox
from iPhone
Oh no! That's not good. Growing kittens need to grow, not shrink.
- Katy S
Schadenfreude! If you've been advocating upgrading from XP to Vista/7 and ditching paid AV solutions for Microsoft Security Essentials, this story will make your day :) - http://www.engadget.com/2010...
"We're hearing from all over that a bad McAfee for Windows XP update is causing computers worldwide to shut down. Apparently DAT update 5958 deletes the svchost.exe file, which then triggers a false-positive in McAfee itself and sets off a chain of uncontrolled restarts and loss of networking functionality."
- LANjackal
from Bookmarklet
This gets even better: remember Intel, the company that f*ed Windows users over by forcing MS to lower the *published* minimum requirements for Vista and then refused to upgrade from XP themselves? They've been hit by the above bug too! EL. OH. F-ING. EL. http://friendfeed.com/edbott...
- LANjackal
Ale♪nastrorosa to Ale♪nastrorosa's feed, ALL MUSIC OF THE WORLD, FF Müzik Paylaşım, muzik paylasim platformu, ffmuzik, Scambio Musica, ROCK & METAL, Share Music (No Video)
...I will try to find my place in the diary of Jane...
Rumy, Wang Yip, Brome and 2 other people liked this
Awesome band and great song
- Wang Yip
Wow, this is gonna be a big thing: Apple's Next iPhone - http://gizmodo.com/5520164...
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Philipp, pastas9, Slavomira and 35 other people liked this
Hope Gizmodo's got good lawyers...
- Kevin Fox
from Bookmarklet
I hope that the final product isn't as ugly.
- Akiva
This is definitely a bigger thing than the Asteroid audio extender that brought down ThinkSecret (and almost brought down AppleInsider). I don't think shield laws really apply here.
- Mark Trapp
Oh wow, why would they do that? I mean, I get it, they want to be first, but that seems like a BIG lawsuit waiting to happen.
- Georgia
What would the grounds be here for a lawsuit?
- Brian Sullivan
Supposedly it was found in a bar in Redwood City. Not sure what Apple could sue them for.
- Dan Hsiao
The Apple employee involved could claim that it was stolen, not lost, and now Gizmodo is handling stolen goods and profiting from it.
- Tudor Bosman
it's the PayPhone!
- Joe Silence
Gruber seems to think Gizmodo is being disingenuous about "finding" the phone: http://daringfireball.net/linked...
- Mark Trapp
Doesn't Apple know EXACTLY where this phone is? Why don't they send someone to get it?
- Stephen Mack #TeamMomo
from iPhone
@Spidra: but you don't have to take MY word for it!
- Joe Silence
?
- Serhat Sine
Good point Stephen. Surely they could use Find My iPhone to track its location.
- Roberto Bonini
If they just manage to get that deal with Verizon, I am gonna be a happy girl.
- Spidra Webster
Gizmodo *may* be in trouble because they: A) violated trade secrets by willfully exposing confidential information that had been secret -- B) reportedly paid an individual for the phone, knowing that it was not that person's property -- C) willfully damaged that property which they knew they had no lawful claim to (they opened it to photograph the guts). There's certainly sufficient grounds to serve a lawsuit that will cost Gizmodo a lot of money to defend, even if they end up defending successfully.
- Kevin Fox
Can't use Find My iPhone since it was remote wiped and is stuck at the activation screen.
- Aaron Draczynski
And of course, D) They haven't returned it after Apple asked for their property back.
- Kevin Fox
[IANAL, but you already knew that] "However, according to the trade secret law, the only groups of people that cannot be prevented from using the trade secret information protected by law are those who do independent means in discovering the secret without practicing illegal measures or breaching state laws or agreements." http://www.mesrianilaw.com/Violati...
- Micah
One could easily argue that knowingly purchasing an item from a person with no lawful claim to the item is an illegal measure.
- Kevin Fox
Come to think of it, that non-lawyerly disclaimer from the halcyon days of slashdot should be updated to iAnal.
- Micah
ianalbipooti
- Kevin Fox
From Nick Denton's Twitter feed, it looks like Gizmodo is itching for a fight: http://twitter.com/nicknotned
- Mark Trapp
Wow, you're right. Looks like they think this might be their Drudge/Lewinsky moment.
- Kevin Fox
Yep.....
- Roberto Bonini
That's an interesting parallel.
- Micah
Most of the legal stuff presented here though would not involve a civil lawsuit but some sort of criminal proceedings. I am guessing that complicates matters a lot does it not?
- Brian Sullivan
Micah wins the thread.
- John Craft
Brian: How so? Apple doesn't care about getting damages. They want to make sure the next time a reporter 'finds' pre-release hardware they're too scared to splash it on the web.
- Kevin Fox
Apple doesn't get to choose if criminal proceedings go forward do they or have they taken over the police and criminal justice system there?
- Brian Sullivan
But if the lost/stolen/how it came into their hands question is even a tiny bit in dispute Giz walks
- WarLord
Brian: claims for misappropriation of trade secrets are generally pursued through civil proceedings, even if such misappropriation occurs through the aid of criminal activity.
- Brian Chang
I'm still guessing if SJ was "nicer' he's have gotten a phone call instead of phto spread
- WarLord
I really doubt it. Gizmodo's resentment, from what the editors are posting, is directed towards the highly-connected media who have advance access, not Apple. As Nick Denton retweeted, "BREAKING: Gizmodo extends massive middle finger to Jim Goldman, tells Mossberg to suck it long, suck it hard"
- Mark Trapp
Hmmmm, from a purely legal standpoint, unless the phone was stamped "Property of Apple Computer," Apple would be hard-pressed to make a claim that the phone itself constitutes "confidential information." And with no evidence of ownership or a tag that reads "If found, return to:..." Giz could claim they thought it was an interesting fake. In any event, once it left the possession of the original owner, unless it was stolen, Giz is probably safe.
- Kevin (aka ThreadKilla)
I don't see that Gizmodo did anything wrong or that Apple has any legal claim at all. They screwed up and let a prototype slip. BFD, we the rest of the human populace are not required to adhere to their confidentiality guidelines. If Apple doesn't like it, they can suck it.
- Otto
The more important keeping your secret becomes the more fun it is to pierce the veil ;)
- WarLord
KevinP: Presumably the black plastic case did have such warnings, but even if not, Gizmodo has clearly demonstrated that they knew who the phone's owner was and that it was a prototype. If Joe Blow shared a twitpic of a cool phone he found he might not have a problem, but Gizmodo showed clear knowledge, intent, and financial gain.
- Kevin Fox
Otto: Leaving a briefcase full of money on a cafe table doesn't mean that the person who finds it and keeps/sells it is free and clear. 'Sucking it' has precious little to do with the law.
- Kevin Fox
Just to be clear, I really don't care either way. I'm not calling for Gizmodo to be brought to justice. I'm just anticipating what I think will happen. We'll see.
- Kevin Fox
But without a non disclosure agreement of some type going to be hard to claim trade secrets
- WarLord
WarLord, not at all. If illegal means were used to acquire the information then trade secret law holds. If Gizmodo paid for the phone then there's probably a case to be made.
- Kevin Fox
I find phone play with it all weekend take pictures etc return phone Monday - dunno how the trade secrets play tha
- WarLord
Kevin: I refer you to the case of "Finders vs. Keepers". ;-) Common law covers lost or mislaid properly pretty well, and if the device was indeed lost in the manner described, then it's quite likely no crime was committed.
- Otto
Warlord: I buy a secret phone from a guy who says he found it. I know it's secret and I open it up, analyze it, then write an exposé about Apple's secret phone, then it's a different story.
- Kevin Fox
Otto: I see where you're going with this, but my guess is that Apple will say that a bag of money clearly labeled 'First National Bank' is not subject to 'finders keepers'. It can be clearly demonstrated that Gizmodo knew who owned the phone and found financial value in keeping it from them and actively pursuing the secrets within the phone. There is no way that this is a simple 'finders keepers' case. That much, at least, should be clear.
- Kevin Fox
Something tells me that Gizmodo is banking on people being sympathetic to them being David vs. Apple's Goliath. This plays along with the fact that a lot of people are turning against Apple now that they're no longer the underdogs. Personally, I hope Gizmodo gets brutalized by the system is what they did was actually illegal.
- Akiva
I think Giz picked an excellent way to swat steveie j with a rolled up newspaper build some steet cred and traffic plus get mucho sympathy from MSM if Apple decides to sue
- WarLord
I agree Akiva. I'm excited to see the new phone, and I even find enjoyment from Gizmodo's scoop, but I do think they should be investigated and, if found to be breaking the law, prosecuted for it.
- Kevin Fox
Whether Apple "owned" the phone or not is up for debate. Assuming it was mislaid in a bar, then after a period of time, the bar owner would become the owner of the device, period. Whether you know who owns it or not is somewhat irrelevant, as it is assumed the owner will return for it. If he does not, it becomes owned by the property owner, who can then sell it or do as he likes with it. See "McAvoy v. Medina", 1866.
- Otto
I think WarLord just proved my case.
- Akiva
The Enquirer regularly gets sued for libel and they regularly make multi-million dollar payouts. It's part of their business model. Maybe this is part of Gizmodo's. They probably ran the math and decided it's worth the legal costs.
- Kevin Fox
The one thing that Gizmodo has done for me over this is make me disappointed over the new iPhone's style which looks absolutely rubbish. At least it'll make it easier for manufacturers to produce more accurate-looking knock-offs. I mean, hell, it already looks like a knock-off.
- Akiva
Otto: We just don't have enough information. We don't know whether Apple asked the bar owner if anyone had found the property. We don't know if it was 'found' by a bar employee or another patron (in which case McAvoy doesn't apply). We don't know whether the phone was placed on a bar or whether it fell out of a bag or purse, and the answer to that question alone throws the applicability of McAvoy in to question.
- Kevin Fox
Akiva: if I were a betting man, I'd wager that what we see here is a prototype or test phone, not the final design.
- Mark Trapp
Mark, what I've read is that this is very close to the final design with just a few physical tweaks on the way. I certainly don't expect it to be identical but I also don't expect it to be that much different.
- Akiva
Kevin: True, but I doubt they'd run with it if they did something blatantly illegal or knew that whoever they got the thing from had done so. The "found in a bar" isn't clarified much, admittedly. I just think that there's more reason here to think that they're in the clear instead of saying "ooohhh, big scary Apple is going to get all legal on them". Apple doesn't control the law, and Steve Jobs is not the arbiter of right and wrong.
- Otto
Yes, if the goods were stolen. However, "found in a bar" does not imply stolen. I know people who leave their phones in bars all the time. They also mention having played with the thing for a week or so, which implies that it was lost some time ago.
- Otto
I'm telling you. People want to see Apple punished for two crimes: one, being too successful; and, two, being exclusionary. If there are two things that some people can't tolerate, it's a winner and being told that they're not part of the secret club.
- Akiva
Akiva -- where in this discussion is there anything about punishing Apple?
- Brian Sullivan
I just wonder two things: How likely is it that an Apple employee permitted to carry pre-release hardware off campus would 'forget' it in a bar (not very) and how likely is it that someone who stole a phone which turned out to be a very valuable piece of proprietary technology would claim that it was 'found' (very).
- Kevin Fox
Look at some of the comments. WarLord writes 'I think Giz picked an excellent way to swat steveie [sic] j with a rolled up newspaper', Otto writes sarcastically about 'big, scary Apple', just for instance. My comments aren't limited to what's been written in this thread, either. There is growing disdain for Apple just like there's growing disdain for Google.
- Akiva
It seems to me the discussion is revolving around punishing Gizmodo/Engadget?
- Brian Sullivan
Johnny: At a guess, I'd say all of them... I mean, they're *bars*... I'm pretty sure that I could call any bar around my area and find somebody I know there. :)
- Otto
The discussion is revolving around whether Gizmodo broke any laws, with a tangential discussion of how much Apple 'deserved it' as though that will have a bearing in court.
- Kevin Fox
Kevin: I don't see that you have any realistic backing there for your "not very" and "very" claims. Those are really just pure speculation with no backing to them whatsoever. Especially for the first one: Anybody can lose their phone, even if it's a "special" one. Just because dude was using pre-release hardware doesn't make him 007, you know.
- Otto
At a start, Techcrunch didn't pay for the files. Secondly, Techcrunch actually contacted Twitter beforehand to talk about it and cut a deal on which information they would and would not reveal. This is why they weren't sued.
- Kevin Fox
Mentioning 'it was found in a bar' just sounds like ass-covering to me.
- Johnny
It's the equivalent of 'my dog ate my homework'.
- Akiva
Otto: Fine, I'll put it a different way: I assume that people frequently end up in possession of phones that do not belong to them through various means. I further assume that those who acquire them through illegal means say they acquired them through legal means. I also assume that a secret proprietary phone is less likely to be accidentally left behind than an average phone. These assumptions were the basis for my comment, If you don't hold those assumptions that's fine, but I do and thus I said so.
- Kevin Fox
Johnny: Pfft. I think they'd at least make it interesting if they were making it up. Something involving sneaking into the Apple labs dressed as ninjas. With pirates.
- Otto
Otto: Robot pirates or sea-faring ones? I was going to say 'or one-eyed pirates' but that could apply to both.
- Kevin Fox
The articles are very well 'written'...
- Johnny
Kevin: I think that after a decent night in a bar, all makes and models of phone are equally likely to be left behind by mistake. Otherwise, you didn't have a good night at the bar. :)
- Otto
;-)
- Kevin Fox
Kevin, I think you're walking a dangerous slope with your reasoning. In our justice system the defendant (in this case, the bar owner is my assumption) should always be presumed innocent until proven otherwise (ie: we should believe the claim of "I found it after someone left it behind" until there is more data that proves differently).
- Chieze Okoye
(Split my comment in two) Additionally, you're using your assumption ("I further assume that those who acquire them through illegal means say they acquired them through legal means.") to prove its own converse. That is, you're implying that because someone who does something wrong covers it up with a certain explantion, this bar owner having that explanation indicates that he did something wrong and is covering it up, which, as far as I can see based on what is known, is definitely a fallacy.
- Chieze Okoye
Chieze: I'm not saying that Gizmodo is guilty. I'm stating that there's the basis for a lawsuit. My argument about thieves lying about how they procured a cellphone isn't an attempt to say that anyone saying they found a phone is lying, but that saying they found a phone does not preclude the possibility that they did not find the phone.
- Kevin Fox
It's called speculation... or it's more modern term 'The Internet' :)
- Johnny
Put as simply as possible: I think it's possible that Gizmodo paid someone for a stolen, proprietary phone for the purpose of revealing its trade secrets for financial gain. I don't know if this is the case, but I think it's possible and I'm guessing that Apple will pursue this in a legal forum. That is the extent of my claim. Is everyone okay with that?
- Kevin Fox
Oh, yeah, it's definitely possible. And I agree with you and definitely think that there's enough here to make it worth Apple's time to pursue legally as well, but if the bulk of their proof is "our employee reported it stolen" I don't think that they will have met their burden of proof for their claim.
- Chieze Okoye
Gizmodo may walk... but I suspect that Don Jobleone will be planting a big fat kiss on their lips. They just lost aaaaaaaall access they had
- Johnny
I suspect Giz would not reveal a C&D yet if they received one. If their goal is to get as much traction and traffic out of this story as possible, its better to drag out everything bit by bit. First the reveal, tons of traffic. Tomorrow, they post the C&D. Tons more traffic. If they post everything today, they don't get the repeat visitors.
- EricaJoy
what if Gizmodo has already returned the phone to apple?
- Chris Heath
I wouldn't think that'd change the outcome of any trade secrets lawsuit. The damage would already have been done.
- Kevin Fox
"They just lost aaaaaaaall access they had" - Nick Denton's twitter feed seems to imply that Gizmodo did this precisely because the DIDN'T have access: http://twitter.com/nicknot...
- John Craft
umm I'm guesing after read that tweet he doesn't much care what Apples response is
- WarLord
INYIM: That's completely possible. I wonder how *that* conversation would have gone, that resulted in teh expose they published anyhow. I'm also interested to head Engadget's story. Based on the photos they published hours before Gizmodo went public I'm guessing both were approached by the 'finder' and Engadget ended up not getting the phone (outbid or declined to try). There's totally a Wired expose piece waiting in the wings here.
- Kevin Fox
Giz used to have enough access to at least go to the iPod/iPhone press conferences.
- Andrew C (✓)
who knew there was this much drama centered on a PHONE ;)
- WarLord
Isn't this the same Gizmodo that pranked a tech conference by turning off all the display monitors and got banned as a result? No surprises, hope these douches get what's coming to them. Engadget FTMFW
- LANjackal
I know I shelled out for a 3GS last year, but, if this thing is sporting an A4 and some serious new features, consarnit, I might be sucked in yet again. I HATE YOU, APPLE.
- Mike Nayyar
Mike, same here. I'm expecting to be sucked in. Again.
- Akiva
I thought this comment on Gizmodo was interesting: http://gizmodo.com/comment... The crime, assuming a crime has been committed, would be Conversion, which is a form of theft. However, since Apple hasn't taken steps to get a restraining order on Gizmodo (if they had, it would've already been effected), the argument is that Apple is okay with the leak. A little more info on criminal conversion here: http://friendfeed.com/itafrom...
- Mark Trapp
If one had any doubt of how big of a douchebag company Gawker is, one need only read that post. Not only do they divulge who lost the phone for no reason other than to make a spectacle of a guy's mistake, they paint a hilariously false account of everybody trying to do the right thing to make it seem like they (and the person who stole the phone) are in the clear. Gawker paid $5,000 for...
more...
- Mark Trapp
1UP Mark
- Akiva
Hey, what's up with that Zune?
- Eric - seven eleven
Apple demands the phone back: http://gizmodo.com/5520479... The reply back to Apple confirms that the phone was stolen, although Gizmodo claims they didn't know that when they bought it.
- Mark Trapp
It's said that IT IS FAKE.
- 老巫
Tips for Tech Leads - http://piaw.blogspot.com/2010...
Jinal Jhaveri, Space Cowboy, Ivan Campos and 10 other people liked this
A big missing tip here is to bring focus. Setting priorities and giving coverage to say no to requests that don't contribute to those goals can do amazing things for a struggling team.
- Joe Beda
Good point!
- Piaw Na
(BTW - great bunch of tips. Bob Day and I kept meaning to do a "How to be a Tech Lead" doc for internal Google consumption but never got around to writing it.)
- Joe Beda
Joe: this is the stuff that should have been in the EDGE workshop instead of the ropes course. :-) I enjoyed the ropes course, it was fun, but a lot of the folks in my workshop really needed hard, solid pointers, not vague instructions and confidence builders.
- Piaw Na
Totally -- I thought the ropes course was a waste of time with EDGE. One afternoon of blindfolded wandering around was enough. And the "situational leadership" stuff was good, but is ~1 hour of material tops.
- Joe Beda
5 Best Free Online File Storage and Sharing Services - http://www.thewebshop.ca/blog...
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Wang Yip, Kol Tregaskes, minushabens and 8 other people liked this
"Sharing a big file over email is never fun and it doesn’t always work. So I’d like to share to you what I use whenever it calls for that kind of situation. Here are my top 5 best free online file storage and sharing services:"
- AJ Batac
from Bookmarklet
yep, those are the onty 2 you need...
- Rahsheen?
Dear FF Team, search is broken. It's been reported already, but it might help if more people confirm it. Please, please do let us know. Thanks in advance.
Daniel Rowley, rowlikeagirl, Alfredo 亜瑠布れっど and 59 other people liked this
saw that hours ago... still seeing it now
- Chris Heath
Broken for me, too.
- Rochelle
same problem 8 hours ago, around 4 hours ago was working, now is unavailable again also here
- Brixie
Yus, I've been having problems with search, it comes and goes. Seems ok at the moment.
- Chris Loft
Broken on iPhone version too (just in case anyone doubted it).
- Stephen Mack #TeamMomo
from iPhone
Search has been broken for months, just keep trying, it eventually wakes up. I have to hit refresh 5 or 6 times every time to get mine to work.
- Kol Tregaskes
I haven't been able to use search in months either.
- Beau Liening
Suggested groups seems broken, too.
- Beau Liening
Agreed. Been broken for a while. I wasn't sure, since we're forced to use IE6 at work, but yeah, I get the same thing at home.
- Steven Perez
Haggis, yeah the poor performance it really pulling down the service. Boo!
- Kol Tregaskes
Damn, Bunneh, IE6 at work? =(
- Beau Liening
Yes. It makes me cry.
- Steven Perez
Me too... makes me sad... :(
- AJ Batac
search has been slow for me (at times) recently but i haven't seen the service unavailable message like i have today
- Chris Heath
OH and it seems to be back up and searching again (by the way)
- Chris Heath
Seems to be working! w00t!
- AJ Batac
It's broken a lot
- Shey
Apparently hiding stuff isn't working either. Multiple items from different sources/people are showing up again. =(
- Beau Liening
This is so sad. I used to love FriendFeed so much. Oh well.
- Mona Nomura
Nobody is home.
- Louis Gray
@louis, they're in Las Vegas, still counting their millions
- Ibrahim Ozturkcan
Hmm, that didn't take too long to count unfortunately. We're working on moving the FriendFeed servers to the Facebook data center, which will have significantly more speed and capacity and (we hope) more reliable hardware. There are a bunch of difficulties we've run into though: FF has been running on Ubuntu Linux distributions whereas FB is based on various (old but stable) Fedora Core...
more...
- Jim Norris
Thanks for the update Jim.
- Roberto Bonini
Excellent news!
- Vezquex
YEAH ! wish I could buy you all a beer to thank you! Absolutely wonderful to see this continued support.
- Bart LePoole
Go easy on Paul, Jim and thanks for the update.
- Jim #TeamMonique
Jim, you guys ROCK.
- Mary B: #TeamMonique
FAITH.
- Josh Haley
from iPhone
Dear FF Team, is this what you get from Facebook?
- Zulkarnain K.
Thanks Jim. And take it easy on Paul ;-)
- AJ Batac
Broken (still? again?) -- this type of abandonment is what will drive users to Buzz (despite all its shortcomings).
- Brian Sullivan
I hate to be melodramatic, but this is not good for my usage.
- Alex Scrivener
Nice to hear that you guys are doing something about it. Thank you! Could you fix emailing to groups as well? When I email a post to a group it goes into a 'can not be delivered' loop for a number of days until it finally tells me that the delivery failed. That feature worked up until a few weeks ago.
- Chip Ramsey
It's broken again.
- Zulkarnain K.
not working.
- JECO Photo
And still broken! :-(
- Kol Tregaskes
google does a great job indexing friendfeed so when the ff search is down you can use google with a site:friendfeed.com modifier to get pretty good search results... only difference is that the ff search is real-time and google's is usually a day behind
- Chris Heath
I had search working for a moment but it's gone again. Uploading pics doesn't work too. Boo!
- Kol Tregaskes
Sorry everyone, we're still having issues keeping the search process running on the new servers. I'll try to post more details tomorrow.
- Jim Norris
Thanks, Jim.
- Anne Bouey
@Jim I tried the search 3 hours ago and was really fast. Great works. Thanks.
- Domenico C.
from email
Bumpity bump. Broken for me at the moment.
- Louis Simoneau
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