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Warner Crocker › Likes
Fwd: Gillmor Gang: The Kindle Effect - http://www.techcrunchit.com/2009... (via http://friendfeed.com/stevegi...)
Chatsohbet, Alberto Saavedra, ursi and 4 other people liked this
Your contrast between the live stream and the calming, friendly beckon of the Kindle to leisure is so true...and will be the balance everyone struggles to maintain.
- Karoli
Javascript power to weight ratio. What's yours? Click here, wait for the result and divide it by your device weight in kilos. E.g the Aigo MID with ff3.0 scores 18 which, with 0.35kg gives a jp/w of 51.4 http://bit.ly/v8v3benchmark - http://code.google.com/apis...
Oliver Maruhn, Warner Crocker, jean-paul and Rodfather liked this
Aigo MID with ff3.0 = 18/0.35 = 51.4
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Everun Note with ff3.0 = 38/0.75 = 50.6
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Wibrain b1h with ff3.0 = 37/0.53 = 69
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Everun Note with Chrome 0.3 = 408/0.8 = 510 Chrome shines!
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Gigabyte M912 Netbook with FF3.0 = 56 / 1.35 = 42
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
M912 with Chrome = 432 / 1.35 = 320
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Everun (original) with ff3.0 = 19/0.5 = 38
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Everun (original) with Chrome = 126 / 0.5 = 252
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Archos 605 with Opera = 2 / 0.2 = 10
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Fujitsu u1010 with Chrome 0.3 = 580 / 0.8 = 725
- jean-paul
Asus Eee PC 1000H (with 2GB CAS4 RAM) - ff3.0: 63/1.45=43.4 Chrome: 467/1.45=322
- Rodfather
Looks like Fuji U2010 would be the ultimate!!!
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Really? I thought Silverthorne processors were slower?
- Rodfather
Can someone run this on an iPhone for me?
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
I just tried a few times to run this on my iPhone 3G 16GB. First time, it hung Safari. Second time, fresh after a reboot, it never completed, even though I let it run for about 10 minutes. Both times, it. Got to 57% complete, and the scores were: Richards 2, DeltaBlue 2, Crypto 5. Hope that helps, let me know if you want me to run it again! :-)
- Josh Bancroft
first run on my iPaq 614c with PocketIE : same as Josh - got to 57%, then 71% then device hanged ... Second try with Netfront 3.5 : stopped at 43% .. Third shot with Opera 9.5beta: completed ! score: 8 / .145 = 55 :)))
- jean-paul
it hung on an S60 phone for me in the same place. Good to know that Opera completes the task although for some reason, their browsers always seem to be poor at Javascript.
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Aigo MID with FF3.1 = 23/0.35 = 65
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
iPaq 614c with Skyfire : 107/.145 = 737 !!
- jean-paul
Still haven been able to test Skyfire to see how well ajax works and how the latency is. I guess I could RDP to my server at home and get a similar 1000+ result though ;-) I'll post why I dont like the proxy solutions soon.
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
N800 for shits and giggles: 3/0,206 = 14,6. funny enough it wondered if i wanted to kill the javascript around step 3 or 4.
- turn.self.off
and now multiply the figure by the online battery life of your device and you have an index of internet mobility. Mmmm. Maybe im on to something here!
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
remind me, that archos is using cortex, yes? got to be somewhat bothersome that the older N800 scored as much as it did. or maybe that say something about the microb javascript, even before any kind of optimization...
- turn.self.off
The archos 605 is the old one. Not Cortex bassed but Opera, while accurate, isnt the best at javascript. I will contact Jenn to see if i can get a result from her.
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
ah yes, i got my numbers crossed. that makes a bit more sense. and i recall having issues with javascript (to the point i left it off most of the time) back on my 770. but then that was also a weaker device then the N800, so...
- turn.self.off
Wibrain i1 with ff3 = 47/0.51 = 92
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Wibrain i1 with Chrome 1.0. = 514 / 0.51 = 1007 A NEW RECORD!
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Fujitsu Loox U/B50n 1.6ghz with ff3 = 53 / 0.58 = 91
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Fujitsu Loox U/B50n 1.6ghz with chrome v1.0154 = 395 / 0.58 = 681 (looks like latest chrome is slower!)
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
tried tear just now, on the old N800, interestingly enough that got me, 18,8 / 0.206 = 87,38! what a difference that is compared to the microb test i did some time ago...
- turn.self.off
Don't forget to use v3 of the benchmark http://bit.ly/v8v3benchmark
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
from Android
Archos 5 Android. ARM Cortex at 800mhz = 46.3 / .189 = 239
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
from Android
Has anyone got and 800mhz Intel MID that thet can test with FF3.5? iPhone 3gs and Droid would be interesting too.
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
from Android
Gigabyte T1028M at 1.6ghz. Chrome 3. = 734 / 1.46 = 489
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Gigabyte T1028M at 800Mhz. Chrome 3. = 380 / 1.46 = 260
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
One other (actually more important) javascript benchmark is here: http://www2.webkit.org/perf...
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
...and here are some benchmarks to get us started. (Maybe I should start a new thread for SunSpider!) http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL...
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
re-test (with v3 of the test) Fujitsu U820 1.6Ghz Chrome 3.0 - 779 / .55 = 1416 New winner!
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Fujitsu u1010 - debian r5 - chrome 4.0.223.11 - 921 / .8 = 1151,25 :)
- jean-paul
Fujitsu U820 1.6ghz with Chrome 4.0.223.16 879 / .55 = 1598
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Interesting that a chrome OS on a Menlow platform would be the most powerful combo for a web-app-focused tablet device.
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Modded UX280 scored 2130 on the test and weighs .725kg = 2937 (running latest stable Chrome)
- Ben L.
How modded is the ux280 ben?
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
iPhone 3gs with safari 61/0.135 = 452
- Paul Graham
from iPhone
Confirms the 3gs as the most powerful javascript engine on a smartphone.
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Kohjinsha SC3 standard, Vista and Chrome 422/0.798 = 529
- Paul Graham
eking s515, chrome 3.0.195 on win7 527 / 447 = 1178
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
HTC Touch Pro2 with Opera Mobile 9.5: 5.47 / 0.1785 = 30.6
- Oliver Maruhn
HTC Touch Pro2 with Dorothy Browser 0.2.2 (Webkit): 16.6 / 0.1785 = 93
- Oliver Maruhn
eking s515 1.2ghz. Chrome 3.0.195 on xp 598/0.45=1317
- Steve 'Chippy' Paine
Reading: The Fifth Annual Life on the Wicked Stage Ink Blot Awards ( http://wickedstageact2.typepad.com/life_on... )
Cliff Gerrish and Warner Crocker liked this
Twitter and Google Reader Aren't at War - http://www.conversationagent.com/2009...
Warner Crocker, Cliff Gerrish, Jenna Bilotta and PaulJohnson liked this
The war is over (if you want it)
- Cliff Gerrish
from iPhone
@waltmossberg I have to agree with @ihnatko;if I could tether a Bluetooth keyboard to my iPhone,my MacBook would collect dust when I travel.
Warner Crocker liked this
Uh, @gstephanopoulos? When you have the RNC and DNC chairman on to talk over each other the morning after health care passes, you've failed.
Josette Torres, Steve Gillmor, Warner Crocker and Admiral Anika liked this
William K. Wolfrum Chronicles » Blog Archive » Twitter improves interface by removing Tweet function - http://www.williamkwolfrum.com/2009...
Warner Crocker liked this
NYT's "100 Things A Waiter Shouldn't Do" http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009... & a rebuttal by The Waiter of WaiterRant.net. http://waiterrant.net/?p=1485
Warner Crocker liked this
Jon Stewart comments on Fox News and its claim to observe a distinction between "news" and "opinion" http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch... Uh... recommended.
Jay, Mike Chelen, Karoli and 3 other people liked this
Nice.
- Cliff Gerrish
David Byrne on Life, the Internet, and Everything: http://journal.davidbyrne.com/2009...
Hilary Talbot, Warner Crocker and Cliff Gerrish liked this
Graphs of trends give the impression that they'll always continue in the direction of the trend. Until they don't.
- Cliff Gerrish
The Private Web - http://www.techcrunchit.com/2009...
Denise Howell, Daniel Rowley, Robert Scoble and 8 other people liked this
In our day we had our Home phone and it was private if you could close the door
- paul mooney
this is our day and there are other alternatives now
- Steve Gillmor
In our day you could have an affair and your GPS coordinates couldn't be traced
- Francine Hardaway
maybe you could
- Steve Gillmor
Steve - Fabulous post! I love the deep level of investigation, research and analysis in this well-thought out and artfully crafted piece. Well done my friend! (Francine LOL)
- Susan Beebe
@Fotosketch It's true. Archos 5 IT is great in bathroom! The modern day Dads newspaper. It was even named right (5*IT)
Rodfather and Warner Crocker liked this
Mobile Tech is all about stall surfing.
- Warner Crocker
The power of two - http://www.techcrunchit.com/2009...
Karoli, Cliff Gerrish, Aron Michalski and Warner Crocker liked this
I enjoy the shift I have to make in order to read a Steve post. It's like putting on your glasses. You just can't skim.
- Aron Michalski
Nope, you can't skim and even if you grasp the larger overview, it takes awhile to chew away at the details.
- Karoli
With that said, however...I'm struggling with the idea that the "two" are Facebook and Twitter. Neither really do the trick for me, though twitter comes closer. Friendfeed is my first place to go when i want the refuge of familiar faces and trusted voices, but I really need a way to sort everything out and make it work without being quite the distraction it is right now.
- Karoli
@kevinmarks This just in Kevin Marks confirms that Google cut bay bridge cable as PR stunt for Launch of Navigation....
Warner Crocker liked this
I uploaded a YouTube video -- Q3 Report to Subscribers (Part 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Warner Crocker liked this
RT @moon: Have you noticed people crying for H1N1 vaccine from the Government are the same people who don't want Health care for everyone?
Warner Crocker, ffcode and Chris Rogers liked this
The biggest difference between Twitter and Facebook - http://scobleizer.com/2009...
metalerik, Sandeep Kalidindi, Warner Crocker and 17 other people liked this
Robert, I'm on a few social networks: Twitter, Brightkite, Friendfeed (obviously), and MySpace. Do you think I should try Facebook?
- Tony C
Tony: Facebook is now to the status that you HAVE to be on it. I have no idea how you survived so long already. Even the prison warden is on it and he's a late adopter type.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: Thanks! I'm leaning towards signing up.
- Tony C
Hehe. Im not on Facebook. Mainly becuase none of my RL friends are on.
- Roberto Bonini
from iPhone
Wow - Tony and Robert are now officially the first people I've met with Twitter accounts that are not on Facebook
- Jesse Stay
Jesse, I wouldn't have one either, but the account deletion is so hard and complicated, I removed all my friends and info once in '06 and again in '08, though I didn't get rid of the friends that time.
- Jimminy Fuller
Rob: I'm on Facebook and have been since the very beginning. Do I put much effort into it? No. Twitter is FAR superior for what I do.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - why would you not put more effort into Facebook a fan page would be a great way to reach a whole new set of people.
- Rob Cairns
Rob: I will do that. I just find that anyone who is anyone in the tech industry reads Twitter.
- Robert Scoble
But I will put more time into my Facebook Page soon.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - I tend to agree a lot of people are on Twitter in the tench industry no question. It is just hard to sometimes get your point across in 140 characters.
- Rob Cairns
Robert, I don't read Twitter - I do read FriendFeed and Facebook (and hopefully your Twitter comes over here if you want me to see it).
- Jesse Stay
I do check my replies and have searches delivered to me from Twitter though, as I do everywhere on the internet.
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: it does so you do read my Twitter. And when lists get here you will switch. I guarantee that.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I already have lists on Facebook. The only advantage Twitter gives me is I can subscribe to an entire list. I'll use lists on SocialToo, for sure - I see the benefit for those that prefer Twitter. I just don't see enough reason for lists to pull me over there though. Maybe I'm wrong though - I just heard some news that will definitely make me think twice (it will be announced next week).
- Jesse Stay
Jesse - Good idea:) It makes life easy does it not.
- Rob Cairns
(think twice about Twitter)
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: cool. Can you call me? +1-425-205-1921
- Robert Scoble
Jesse why are you thinking twice about Twitter
- Rob Cairns
What control do we have over what we see in the Facebook News Feed and Live Feed? FB changes things faster than I can learn the old system. I saw maybe 20 messages in a row regarding one person's rejection of various events. It would be nice to be able to turn that off.
- SuezanneC Baskerville
Suezanne, use friend lists and filter by friend list
- Jesse Stay
Differences: 1. Facebook is a walled garden, Twitter is mostly public information (so is Friendfeed). 2. Facebook has reciprocal friending, Twitter is non-reciprocal (so is Friendfeed). 3. Facebook allows commenting on updates (so does Friendfeed), Twitter is just tweets.
- Michael Slattery
Now if I (as a regular nobody) want to be heard - other than by someone checking their vanity feed - I have to go to Facebook or Friendfeed. I use Twitter just as a reader - in place of RSS.
- Michael Slattery
Michael, is it really walled if everyone is a member? In that regard, isn't the internet itself a walled garden?
- Jesse Stay
really i will see that site...please visit my site http://ipod-video-gallery-idha...
- idham ubaguru
Jesse, I've been trying to find a link I saw recently, an article where the featured person explains that Facebook will stay a walled garden because that obliges everyone to come to them. What is walled off is not the members - as you say, everyone will join - but the content.
- Michael Slattery
Jesse Stay, make that 3 people now. I'm on Twitter and FF but not Facebook. Originally it was that I was concerned about privacy. Now it's mostly that I am more interested in learning and tracking information. Since not many people know me IRL, I'm not sure how it would work out with the reciprocal friending so Twitter and FriendFeed seem best for my use. If Robert and you didn't know and have as part of your work knowing so many people more personally, would it still be the same for you?
- metalerik
Meta, not sure I understand your question, but the reason I like Facebook so much is because it allows me to get to know people more personally. There's no better networking than getting to know people in real life, and Facebook encourages that. Yet, at the same time if you want to remain more anonymous you can do that as well.
- Jesse Stay
Thanks Jesse. I'm always interested in learning new tools.
- metalerik
Does anyone here use Facebook in a more anonymous way? I remember after Facebook bought FF, people were talking about how they use FF and Facebook in completely different ways and with an almost entirely separate group of people.
- metalerik
I check both compulsively. Entirely different audience for me. Fb = rl friends. I hardly add anyone that I don't know. Twitter = rest of the world. Sometimes I'm quite annoyed by the noise coz a lot of my friends try lots of apps, and I spent atleast one day a month hiding all that noise :). It matter less on Twitter
- Shivanand Velmurugan
from Alert Thingy
Meta, anyone using a Facebook Fan Page is
- Jesse Stay
More differences: 4. Twitter input is limited to 140 characters, Facebook input can be much more than that (as can Friendfeed input). 5. Twitter is a raw feed of tweets only, Facebook has multiple types of feeds such as updates, links, notes etc. (and Friendfeed is an aggregator of feeds produced elsewhere). 6. Twitter is just now introducing lists, while Facebook has a system of...
more...
- Michael Slattery
More from branding blunders dept.: B&N's Nook-e-Reader launches today, along with a Nook-e-Book Store http://www.nytimes.com/2009... http://nook.com
Warner Crocker liked this
Gillmor Gang recording live 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Daniel Chow, Michael Pinto, Troy Benohanian and 7 other people liked this
We are close to being live now. Just a couple more minutes.
- Robert Scoble
http://twitter.com/dens Dennis Crowley, co-founder of Foursquare is our special guest.
- Robert Scoble
I'm still not clear on what's good about this...
- Cliff Gerrish
please ask Dennis when Foursquare will roll out in europe
- HansVanRock
Cliff: there are three things that I get out of Foursquare: 1. I see what my friends are doing. That lets me meet them in real life and keep track of what they are doing. 2. It's a game, so I can play it to compete with my friends. 3. I can get tips from my friends for the location that I currently am at.
- Robert Scoble
Hans: it just launched in London last week.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, the tips seem good. Do you need to check in to get them?
- Cliff Gerrish
Checking-in is like closing the "sales" loop for venues. FourSquare is a disruptor in mobile marketing and users are happy and engaged....
- Antonella Stellacci
Cliff: yes. Because checking in is how you tell the system where you are.
- Robert Scoble
Robert: London i don´t consider as europe, it´s an island lost at sea ;-)
- HansVanRock
re new places, check their blog http://foursquare.tumblr.com/post... for a list of new cities
- Antonella Stellacci
Can you privately check in, or is it alway a public gesture.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: yes. You can keep your location secret.
- Robert Scoble
HansVanRock: They also have Amsterdam.
- 321
321: who will be brave enough to check in at a coffee shop? :-)
- Robert Scoble
:-)/
- HansVanRock
Geolocation, augmented reality, etc. Foursquare seems like a simple entre to this world.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: it looks simple, just like Twitter looks simple. But that's deceiving.
- Robert Scoble
Robert, I meant 'simple' in the most complimentary way. Simple works.
- Cliff Gerrish
Regarding real people in augmented reality, check this out: http://blog.brightkite.com/2009...
- Martin May
Mobile advertising is a multi-billion dollars business. ....even Twitter with geo-location API and Facebook mobile will want a share of it..
- Antonella Stellacci
Loop and latency are also key elements.
- Cliff Gerrish
Hey, Gillmor, nice camera angle of your studio!
- Robert Scoble
Are these features or companies?
- Cliff Gerrish
widgets will soon start talking to each other and exchanging data. that's when user constructed solutions start getting interesting.
- scott anderson
Are there enough economics in a distributed widget mesh?
- Cliff Gerrish
widgets will be front end for services. that's where the economics come from.
- scott anderson
If you wrap up 5 widgets in a package - high risk, great leverage, low economics
- Cliff Gerrish
If you are dependent on more systems, doesn't that increase your risk? It seems like it's a downside unless you have failover to other services
- Martin May
Do we really want our phones making decisions for us? No matter how much context they have...
- Cliff Gerrish
Thanks for adding San Antonio, @dens!
- Robert J Taylor
Cliff - they are making suggestions, not decisions.
- Rob La Gesse
A better frame might be, here are the place gestures your social graph has generated. Does that suggest anything to you...
- Cliff Gerrish
that's super smart :)
- Antonella Stellacci
Have any houses been broken into based on negative location information?
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff: I heard of one, because of a Facebook post (or it was just a bad coincidence). But I've also heard of thieves getting caught because of Google Latitude.
- Robert Scoble
As long as thieves are also on foursquare and check in as they are robbing your place -- I guess that's ok...
- Cliff Gerrish
No 4square in Reno yet. So there must be a population threshold for cities covered at this point?
- ursi
Cliff: if someone tries breaking into my house while I'm not here they might be a little shocked. :-)
- Robert Scoble
Homeless people will "check in" the easy mark homes for their roaming buddies...
- Robert J Taylor
Aren't explicit place gestures fictional? That's their important social information content...
- Cliff Gerrish
I'd love to be able to check in on the Gillmor Gang.
- Robert Scoble
Sounds a lot like MS Mesh...
- Cliff Gerrish
Right...but the tough part is "verifying" that a person is actually at a certain place. You can make it difficult to spoof, though.
- Martin May
We're working on some interesting stuff with QR codes to do that.
- Martin May
Identity becomes a real key here.
- Cliff Gerrish
Good thoughts...totally agree with @dens
- Martin May
Steve - I like the new "studio cam" view
- Rob La Gesse
Do we run into the Facebook Beacon problem here?
- Cliff Gerrish
Steve - I like the studio cam view, too: http://img.skitch.com/2009101... (color me green for jealousy!)
- Robert J Taylor
yes, i also liked the cam angle: http://twitpic.com/lnkdg ..... great show Steve & guests!
- HansVanRock
Amanda Palmer (via @aronski) on letting business models emerge. This is a critical discussion to the survival of artists. http://blog.amandapalmer.net/post...
Graham English, Spidra Webster, Rob Michael (Atmos Trio) and 3 other people liked this
Cliff, thanks for the RT, I agree that this is important. The passion and desire of the artist does not require starvation of any sort.
- Aron Michalski
Aron, @amandapalmer 's post is an important moment. As Fake Steve Jobs would say, 'somebody needs to set the Freetards straight.'
- Cliff Gerrish
It's funny if you try to translate the "something for nothing" paradigm to a non-artist's life. I would love to see the percentage of people who steal content who also do volunteer work.
- Aron Michalski
If there is anything that makes me more disappointed it's the unrealistic sense of entitlement from the public in general. Full immediate compensation for the instant gratification crowd with little or no return.
- Aron Michalski
Once you cut out the middle men, and the relationship is directly with the artist -- then stealing content has a different meaning. That's the transition that needs to be communicated.
- Cliff Gerrish
I agree, Cliff. Much of the public's attitude comes from the perception that what they pay does not go to the artist, but to the promoters and big biz behind the music. I'll gladly support (and do!) artists directly, but I'm tired of making fat cats fatter.
- Karoli
.@amandapalmer seems to be thrashing around looking for what people will pay for. I think this stammering experimentation is essential -- and a key to the meaning of micro-communities and what @windley describes as a purpose-centric web.
- Cliff Gerrish
Well, that's where the disconnect has always been. Now that the artist can distribute widely without them, they can stop the financial bleeding that the agents and record companies soaked up.
- Aron Michalski
But as @SteveGillmor mentioned on a NewsGang long ago -- it's about the liner notes. And more recently, it's about live real-time streams - where are the value propositions that add up to a business model?
- Cliff Gerrish
All artists, including myself, are floating in this sea of uncertainty, and have been for the last 10 years. What will people pay for? How much will they pay for it? What is worth something if it's presented in one way, but not another? The frustrating part is that different things will work for different artists. Palmer herself poo-pooed Matthew Ebel for his popular streaming concerts,...
more...
- matthew
Matthew, this idea of "not a real sort of connection" is the same kind of complaint we used to hear about social networks. Palmer seems to be willing to try real-time streaming now. That's why a conversation that starts to tie these things together and expose them through micro-communities is crucial. (By the way, great cover of 'everybody knows.' I love that song. http://www.thematthewshow.com/music...)
- Cliff Gerrish
First, I should give Matthew props for passing this along.I became aware of his work through non-traditional channels, at the time a podcast playing music that was legally allowed to be distributed in that way. I make my living by working for people who continue to use the old model on a large scale but they also all see that the traditional model is fading. The connection between...
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- Aron Michalski
Is there a touring without touring? A streaming performance (not the same as an in-person performance) that provides a significant value? For instance, I really like going to Live HD simulcasts of the Metropolitan Opera. I also loved the SF Opera's simulcast of Il Trovatore at the Ballpark. What is the opportunity between a recorded performance and a live in-person performance?
- Cliff Gerrish
Interactivity. When I do my Second Life shows, people can banter with me in much the same way they could in a meatspace club environment. Same with Ustream. In fact it's better, because they don't have to shout to be heard over the music and the other patrons (mostly...some can get a bit chatty). That's a lot different than watching a pre-recorded concert on YouTube.
- matthew
This sounds like the same model as the real-time Gillmor Gang.
- Cliff Gerrish
Now, as you know, the trick is whether people will pay for it. In SL, people do tip. I've had some limited success with getting people to tip on Ustream, but Ebel seems to have bypassed that with his subscription model. That only works, of course, if you have a substantial enough fan base. For people at an earlier stage in their career, it's dicier.
- matthew
What size fan base do you think makes the private subscription model work?
- Cliff Gerrish
I always speculated that touring in some form would be a stationary idea, either through the interweb or localized demand (Prince or Michael Jackson at the O2). They have attempted to try these event similcasts at our local movie theater ( http://www.ncm.com/Fathom/ ) Touring every corner of the globe is an expensive thing but the energy exchange is unique. Perhaps in the same way that...
more...
- Aron Michalski
A very good question, Cliff. I'm not honestly sure. I've done some canvassing and crunched a few numbers, and all I know is that I'm likely not there yet. But I could be wrong. Also, I'd need a better tech guy than me. :)
- matthew
Aron, I don't think one replaces the other -- it's just an additional format.
- Cliff Gerrish
I also don't think one replaces the other. At the end of October, a bunch of SL musos and fans are gathering here in Dallas for a big meetup/jam. People still enjoy in-the-flesh, but sometimes it's nearly as big a pain in the ass for fans to get to RL shows as it is for bands to get there. So the virtual conduit helps you keep those ties until a face-to-face meeting is feasible.
- matthew
Kevin Kelly explored the idea of 1,000 True Fans (http://www.kk.org/thetech...). Maybe that's the number. Also, do you think there's a role for a David Geffen or Bill Graham type in this ecosystem?
- Cliff Gerrish
The Geffens & Grahams are also trying to figure out what people will pay for. The virtual music world is chock full of aspiring music promoters, but very few of them are breaking even, as far as I can tell.
- matthew
I guess I'm thinking of the 'producer' role - what that is in a live show; what that is in a recording session; and what that might be in the context of a real-time stream.
- Cliff Gerrish
There will always be a demand for audio expertise. The question is how these people will get paid a living wage. Enough of us are taking matters into our own hands and turning out passable product, but if I could afford it, I'd gladly hand over the reins to a competent producer.
- matthew
I have been experimenting over the past couple of months with "Virtual Touring." My main observation: My Ustream audience has been consistently 10 times that of the RL audience (I typically stream from a venue w/ an audience in attendance). I will actually be playing some gigs from my own studio (a joke/ fantasy I've had for years.), and I'm thrilled about it.
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
Rob, do you have someone setting up the broadcast -- or do you do it yourself?
- Cliff Gerrish
Rob, that's my experience as well. It keeps the overhead low, so what little you get is profit. However, it can still be a bit of a job to convince people to tip.
- matthew
Matthew have you tied in CD sales, or T-shirt sales -- or liner note sales? Or is it purely a tip jar approach?
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff-I intend to set-up a multi-camera soundstage. For now--I just use my MacBook's iSight camera and feed a board-mix to Ustream. Guerilla-style.
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
With the GillmorGang we use a Tricaster (NewTech) and a Mackie soundboard.
- Cliff Gerrish
Seems like an external video input wouldn't be too hard to set up. Anyone have an opinion on the sound quality of the transmitted audio via a ustream stream?
- Cliff Gerrish
Part of what the world is missing is a "DJ" we can trust; someone who's passion for the music is something we can count on. I have always gotten better tips from people who have a depth of experience and get excited when the magic hits them. Less likely to get gamed in an algorithm/also bought sense.
- Aron Michalski
I just use a simple webcam, but I use the sound that comes out of my Tapco (Mackie) mixing board. Viewers so far have had no sound quality issues that I'm aware of.
- matthew
Aron, substitute micro-community for DJ - and you might have something.
- Cliff Gerrish
Seems to me that the DJs are the friends we listen to on Twitter. Blip.fm is a great DJ tool, I love it much.
- Karoli
What Cliff said.
- matthew
I saw the virtual touring idea coming a long time ago even if it would temporarily hurt my revenue stream. It makes sense.
- Aron Michalski
Since audio quality is more important to me than video quality--I ratchet-up the audio to 100% and bring down the video quality to ~65%. Though audio is mono--it sounds pretty good. Direct mix vs laptop mic input makes a huge difference: Common-sense stuff...
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
Aron, it seems to make a lot of sense for the mid-list acts. The top players can still get the 360 deals. But the artists in the middle (and emerging) are getting squeezed out.
- Cliff Gerrish
Rob, it seems like having a live audience for the live stream makes a difference. Is that your perception?
- Cliff Gerrish
It really doesn't work otherwise.
- matthew
Cliff--It makes a huge difference. That's what makes it a gig vs just another YouTube video shoot.
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
What would be the effect of live feedback from a remote audience? Or a distributed audience? Could that be similar?
- Cliff Gerrish
It's the same thing. I simulcast my Second Life shows into Ustream, so I'm responding to chat from both places.
- matthew
I guess the example I'm thinking of was the NewsGang Live we did with Tom Milsom (@hexachordal) - He joined the broadcast from London - but could see live video feedback from the other people on the panel + the chat.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff and Matthew, I'm with you there, kind of leading the conversation Gillmor-style, but I think the key for me is still being selective/well grouped in order not to foul the results. It is a matter of trust and identity. I'm not eliminating the unknown but needing to trust the spirit of the recommender.
- Aron Michalski
There are bands in SL who play together from remote locations. The Virtual Live Band has members in the U.S. & Europe who do shows together. Just takes the right software.
- matthew
Matthew -- how does playing together from remote locations work with network latency? What software makes it work?
- Cliff Gerrish
Matthew--I would love to learn about that software. I'm quite interested in collaborating remotely in real-time.
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
Aron, the selectivity has always been an issue. I can go out to Deep Ellum or Greenwich Village blind on any given night and either see something great or something completely awful. Over time you develop knowledge of what's likely to suit your tastes. Works the same virtually.
- matthew
360 deals are mortgages for millionaires. VC funding with varying degrees of return. For the large they are bailouts for those who want to maintain their standard of living. For the small, a way for the VC to get every possible cent from their investment.
- Aron Michalski
Ninjam is the one I'm aware of. There are probably others: http://www.ninjam.com/
- matthew
Wow, that interval synching in NinJam is pretty interesting. A very different kind of constraint on a real-time jam.
- Cliff Gerrish
360 =now we get their t-shirt an concert money too in addition to recording and publishing.
- Mark Forman
Yeah, it takes some rethinking. I've been too chicken to try it, personally.
- matthew
Matthew, I wish you could see my iTunes library; it usually gives other people headaches or nightmares. Early in the podcast/digital distro period I could sift well but now I suck at it.
- Aron Michalski
Is there a venue to listen to real time NinJams? Matthew, have you heard any?
- Cliff Gerrish
Aron, I don't even wanna talk about my disc/cassette/vinyl library, not to mention digital. Music lovers carry the curse of inventory.
- matthew
I've heard some in Second Life. There are videos up on the Virtual Live Band's site: http://virtualliveband.de/
- matthew
Although another collab alternative is to stream via Simplecast, which I usually use for my SL shows. Another musician picks up the stream via WinAmp or some such, then rebroadcasts it plus their part on another Simplecast stream which goes out to the wider world.
- matthew
The avatars in second life kinda creep me out. I'd love to see live video instead.
- Cliff Gerrish
If I ever get enough cojones to try it on Ustream or some such, I'll let you know.
- matthew
Matthew, so that's kind of building up layers of sound -- bouncing the track from one player to the next via Simplecast.
- Cliff Gerrish
Right. The downside is that the original player cannot hear the others.
- matthew
...getting there...
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
In NinJam example, all the players aren't hearing the same interval are they?
- Cliff Gerrish
I'm not actually 100% sure.
- matthew
SL due to early bandwidth/Mac limitations never clicked for me. My loss I guess.
- Aron Michalski
And presumably, the main output of the mix would be something none of the musicians would be hearing as they played. As I said, a weird and different kind of constraint on an improvisation.
- Cliff Gerrish
Modal jazz might work, but adjusting to chord changes might be a little tricky.
- Cliff Gerrish
It's not for the faint of heart, nosir.
- matthew
Getting back to the what people will pay for idea, are there many artists who've implemented the pay for stream template?
- Cliff Gerrish
In my experience, not directly. It's a tipjar situation, generally. Then ancillary incomes from downloads & subscriptions, et al. Although some people have set up ticketing systems in SL for the highest draw acts.
- matthew
How about sponsorships? Has that been explored yet?
- Cliff Gerrish
Gibson (as in guitars) Island sponsors certain SL acts like Von Johin. Not sure how much.
- matthew
So, it doesn't sound like there's much of this going on outside of Second Life.
- Cliff Gerrish
Honestly not sure. It might be a good idea, if companies could get enough eyeballs to make it worth their while.
- matthew
It's not so much quantity of eyeballs as the quality of eyeballs.
- Cliff Gerrish
Matthew, or anybody, what are your thoughts about a mix of talk and music (live in realtime) ?
- Cliff Gerrish
I think that would be quite badass, frankly.
- matthew
In this middle ground between recorded output and live in-person performance -- there are unique qualities to the medium that need to be worked out. It shouldn't just be a matter of repurposing content.
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff--If you or Leo Laporte or Chris Pirillo want me to play you in/out of segments--give me a call. :-)
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
I can't speak for Leo, but Steve Gillmor and I have been talking about this kind of stuff.
- Cliff Gerrish
I am completely serious.
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
I would definitely be up for such an arrangement as well.
- matthew
We'll keep it in mind.
- Cliff Gerrish
Let me know about any live stream shows.
- Cliff Gerrish
I'm Ustreaming here tomorrow (as I do most Thursday afternoons) at 1:30 pst. Oct 19th will be a special stream featuring Damian Erskine on bass and myself. (maybe my trio) More info to come on that. http://www.ustream.tv/channel...
- Rob Michael (Atmos Trio)
Great conversation. I learned a lot.
- Cliff Gerrish
I simulcast all my SL shows on Ustream now. Calendar & Ustream link is here: http://www.thematthewshow.com/calenda... Got one tonight at 7PM Pacific.
- matthew
And no, I'm not simulcasting my avatar. Just my own self.
- matthew
Thank you all for running with the ball; it didn't go where I thought it was going but I'm glad to see where we got. Very Gillmor-esque.
- Aron Michalski
While not collaboration in real time, has anyone tried Indaba.com for distributed music collaboration?
- Cliff Gerrish
That URL appears to go to an African art gallery...?
- matthew
That should be http://www.indabamusic.com/
- Cliff Gerrish
Wow. Haven't used it, but I recorded parts of my last album with a similar process. Had musicians in other states record parts & send them to me so I could paste them in. That looks like a cool way to get such a thing done.
- matthew
Threadsy blows TC50 away
earl wallace, Susan Beebe, Rob La Gesse and 5 other people liked this
TC50 blows threadsy away. It seems like their servers can't handle all the traffic
- arjo
i'm still thinking it over steve.. want to play with it. i suspect it's a product for advanced users.
- mary
Wasn't Steve Gillmor thrown off of the Leo Laporte TWIT network, if my memory serves me?
- Arnold Winters
Errrr, no, Arnold, he wasn't.
- Karoli
I must be thinking of someone else
- Arnold Winters
I heard he or one of his GANG insulted Leo?
- Arnold Winters
Other way around
- Rob La Gesse
A rare glimpse of Samuel Beckett talking about 'What Where': http://www.youtube.com/watch...
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Warner Crocker and Greg Guitarbuster liked this
Gillmor Gang 1PM Pacific http://www.building43.com/realtim...
Stephen Edgar, Francine Hardaway, Derrick Peters and 35 other people liked this
11 viewers for a test pattern, and I seem to be one of them.
- Cliff Gerrish
Getting ready to rock 'n' roll
- Tina Chase Gillmor
It is a nice test pattern though.
- Warner Crocker
Cliff - it is a CLASSY test pattern though :)
- Rob La Gesse
Timing. LOL
- Warner Crocker
Bret Taylor of Facebook will join us to talk about open sourcing Tornado
- Steve Gillmor
I don't recognise that test pattern but the zone plate parts are showing some hf loss...
- Kevin Marks
Cool! From what I know so far, I think I'm in love with Tornado.
- Raphael, Raphael
I'm in the Gillmor Gang studio.
- Robert Scoble
Please stand by. Technical difficulties are being worked on.
- Robert Scoble
I'm enjoying the test pattern. Heard Steve's voice, so I'm sure we're closer to a b-cast. :)
- Karoli
Karoli: yup. Getting closer.
- Robert Scoble
10.9.8.7.
- Robert Scoble
Look - a @building43 t-shirt! :)
- Rob La Gesse
Puppets are all the rage right now. :)
- Karoli
buffering, unwatchable
- Mark
The feed is coming in crystal clear for me....
- Mike Kelly
Mark: sorry. Is anyone else seeing this problem?
- Robert Scoble
There was a bit of a glitch, but all's well now.
- Ken Sheppardson
Working well for me.
- Jason Huebel
Cool.
- Robert Scoble
crystal clear here :)
- Adnan
Actually....the audio quality is much better than the old GG episodes!
- Mike Kelly
Really curious to hear from Bret how he'd tie XMPP into Tornado... where he sees the intergration points and overlap.
- Ken Sheppardson
Is Kevin Marks still with google?
- Adnan
Is there an audio only feed?
- Shaun Trennery
Shaun: close your eyes. ;-)
- Robert Scoble
LiveJournal growth/uptime was a lot like the present Twitter headache.
- Jay Cuthrell
Kevin is now with British Telecom. VP of Web Services
- Ken Sheppardson
:) Thanks Robert, bandwidth here in South Africa is limited. My pigeon is fast asleep.
- Shaun Trennery
Tornado chat room demo instance http://chan.friendfeed.com:8888/
- Ken Sheppardson
Real-Time Remastering....wow..talk about Gillmore Gang 3.0
- Mike Kelly
Whoo! name check
- Jack
Transcoding on the fly circa 2001 :) Nice!
- Jay Cuthrell
Thanks Steve
- Shaun Trennery
Waiting for the tech geek hitler moment when someone says that Google Wave is dead
- Ross Mayfield
Jack: waiting for your remastering magic! :-)
- Robert Scoble
"Some guy named Jack" :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
This is greatly enjoyable and informative. Thank you all.
- Harry Wolff
bingo
- Ross Mayfield
what method does tornado use to pull updates that it pushes realtime?
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Wave is XMPP based... hence my earlier question RE how he'd tie XMPP into Tornado... where he sees the intergration points and overlap.
- Ken Sheppardson
Ross: that one was for you!
- Robert Scoble
:-)
- Robert Scoble
;-)
- Ross Mayfield
I'd love to know when noreply and donotreply goes away from Facebook notification emails.
- Jay Cuthrell
Mochiweb (Erlang web framework) has some pretty easy to use support for long-polling too. Use it at http://replies.twitterfall.com for the streaming API there. I think Facebook use it for chat? (guess)
- Jalada
Agreed Steve.......This is now officially WAY over my head.... ;-)
- Mike Kelly
So, Bret... any plans for a near-term Tornado meetup?
- Ken Sheppardson
Has there been any discussion on any top line scaling metrics they are shooting for now? i.e. transcations per second, etc.
- Jay Cuthrell
Thursdays between 1 - 2pm SFO likes to fly jets over the NGL studios! We must have a talk about this
- Tina Chase Gillmor
lol, love the Canter picture
- Ross Mayfield
agreed... great Canter action shot :)
- Jay Cuthrell
I believe that was at LeWeb several years ago. But Marc was famous for sleeping at conferences.
- Robert Scoble
thanks... I'll take credit for the Canter photo. Not for taking it but for choosing it
- Tina Chase Gillmor
awesome! :)
- Susan Beebe
jazz?
- Jay Cuthrell
yeah, what was that? :)
- Susan Beebe
new Kenny G intro music...
- Mike Kelly
Someone was on hold and it leaked out.
- Robert Scoble
I seriously want that Calliflower hold music MP3
- Ken Sheppardson
That's a great blog - I follow it
- Jesse Stay
whats the future of friendfeed?
- Adnan
Ask him how scaling for Facebook compares to scaling from Google?
- Jesse Stay
robert - do you have a public blog reference for digg using casandra?
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Cassandra uses Thrift too, which supports Python, so the two go together well.
- Jalada
Can't wait to work with Brett in Platform
- Jesse Stay
Mike: I saw it on one of the Digg guys' twitter accounts. I'll try to find some details.
- Robert Scoble
Rob, thanks for saving me the time! :-)
- Robert Scoble
BTW, Brett's saying it wrong - it's not "the Facebook Platform". It's "Facebook Platform".
- Jesse Stay
reading that too!
- Susan Beebe
His Colleagues would correct him on that :-)
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: on what?
- Robert Scoble
Robert, on pronunciation of Facebook platform - there's no "the"
- Jesse Stay
exactly
- Jay Cuthrell
Ahh.
- Robert Scoble
They're very picky about that - it's "Facebook Platform" and not "The Facebook Platform". #littlethings :-)
- Jesse Stay
Any questions for Bret?
- Robert Scoble
The same "Rackspace Cloud" vs "The Rackspace Cloud" argument :)
- Rob La Gesse
Yes, they definitely can.
- Jalada
We're using Pubsubhubbub at http://rssfall.com but it's trivial to add rssCloud support and we're going to.
- Jalada
When will we get to see some of the FriendFeed-like real time features in the Facebook stream?
- Jesse Stay
And when will that work with the API?
- Jesse Stay
Q: What impact will today's release of @Mentions on Facebook have on their infrastructure, performance?
- Susan Beebe
Listening to this is so very interesting if you remember things like "ATG Dynamo" and the personalization wave of the .com days
- Jay Cuthrell
"Pub hub sub bub"? Nice :-)
- Ken Sheppardson
Can anyone ask Bret if Friendfeed plans to open source more of their code. Would love to see how Friendfeed handles the aggregation of all the user feeds.
- arjo
thanks rob and rob!
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
*boom* moment is when the homepages change
- Jay Cuthrell
Jesse - great question!
- Susan Beebe
Will friendfeed keep using their mysql blob store system or will they move to something more native to the FB platform?
- Ian Kallen
arjo: I will try to get to that.
- Robert Scoble
Facebook supports activitystrea.ms already
- Jesse Stay
Ian: I think the answer is clear that the future is Cassandra and other systems built to deal with 300-500 million users.
- Robert Scoble
De jure versus De facto? :P
- Jalada
that's why at the IETF they learned the hard way that implementation trumps a lone spec
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
"Drool: "Tornado comes w/ built-in support for Facebook Connect, Twitter, Google, FriendFeed and OAuth + OpenID." -- http://friendfeed.com/chrisme...
- Ken Sheppardson
Robert - Question for Bret --> What impact will today's release of @Mentions on Facebook have on their infrastructure, performance?
- Susan Beebe
assuming the thing enclosed is relevant to the stream presentation method
- Jay Cuthrell
You can learn more about Facebook's activity streams here: http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index...
- Jesse Stay
thanks Jesse!
- Susan Beebe
maybe Facebook RTVR will be available for timeshift realtimers (like DVR/Tivo for stuff)
- Jay Cuthrell
Nice show guys - thanks.
- Rob La Gesse
epic GG -- thanks!
- Jay Cuthrell
Thanks GG ! :)
- Susan Beebe
Interesting show, thanks :-)
- Jalada
Great show!
- Mike Doeff
really interesting stuff. thanks.
- Karoli
Thanks to Bret Taylor, great show. No drama, either!
- Robert Scoble
heheh
- Jay Cuthrell
Thank you all! Great show!
- Harry Wolff
great show!
- Adnan
hahah :)
- Susan Beebe
I'd love to see more GG's like that. That was a great show.
- Jesse Stay
Robert, you should have blurted out "You Lie!". Add some controversy :)
- Mike Doeff
Great show guys, thanks
- Ivan Kirigin
Best one in a long while - really good stuff
- Susan Beebe
Jesse: I'd like see more but I value the mix over the homogeneous
- Jay Cuthrell
The mix of what will it be is why I show up
- Jay Cuthrell
excellent show - enjoyed the pace and the questions
- bear (aka Mike Taylor)
Bravos! Wonderful show. Thank you.
- Dave Martin
I agree Susan. I hope that Steve has more geeks on and fewer arguers in the future.
- Robert Scoble
Robert - well said! no drama queens - geeks only! :)
- Susan Beebe
Kevin, Robert, Bret & Canter - thanks for a great show. Thank you all for showing up
- Tina Chase Gillmor
Tina - thanks for the Canter photo -- best LOL of the day :)
- Jay Cuthrell
Maybe next time. I hope it went well.
- Michael Fidler
Unofficial MP3 of this show: http://www.archive.org/downloa...
- Jack
Does anyone have audio/video of the newsgang live from earlier this week?
- Michael Breslin
Michael: There's a repository of bootlegs at http://www.archive.org/downloa...
- Ken Sheppardson
Another link for a bootleg of today's show: http://friendfeed.com/jackx1...
- Mike Doeff
Yeah I know about that, unless I'm mistaken it doesn't have the newsgang live from tue 09/08
- Michael Breslin
I've only been recording episodes of the Gillmor Gang so unless someone else has recorded NewGang you will have to wait until Steve puts it on YouTube
- Jack
Mike: That link is to the same file as in the bootleg feed
- Jack
Ken: All those files are linked to in a shiny feedburner interface here: http://feeds2.feedburner.com/bootleg... Plus its a handy RSS feed
- Jack
Also, the echo in the Republican broadcast response makes me think he's transmitting from Cheney's bunker. (via @AnthonyBaker)
Warner Crocker liked this
09/09/09 - The Day the Record Industry Died - Anil Dash - http://dashes.com/anil...
Warner Crocker and Karoli liked this
"Today brings two announcements of great import to music fans, but they're most notable for who's not involved: The major record labels. First, The Beatles are announcing a slew of new launches to reboot the band for the digital era, including a branded version of Rock Band and the release of a set of digitally-remastered recordings that ready their catalog for purchase online for the first time. At the same time, Apple is holding their annual iPod advertising event, focused (as is often the case) on music. Most of today's announcements from Apple are focused on the packaging and distribution of digital music, not just on songs and artists themselves. But what's remarkable is what the confluence of these two events represents: The final decline of the record industry's ability to define the popular narrative about music. With only a few exceptions (such as Reprise, started by Frank Sinatra, and Apple Corps, started by the Beatles), record labels have been started by business people...
more...
- Cliff Gerrish
from Bookmarklet
Terry Eagleton — Culture & Barbarism : Metaphysics in a Time of Terrorism - http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/print_f...
Tolga D., Suat, Warner Crocker and 4 other people liked this
"Why are the most unlikely people, including myself, suddenly talking about God? Who would have expected theology to rear its head once more in the technocratic twenty-first century, almost as surprisingly as some mass revival of Zoroastrianism? Why is it that my local bookshop has suddenly sprouted a section labeled “Atheism,” hosting anti-God manifestos by Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and others, and might even now be contemplating another marked “Congenital Skeptic with Mild Baptist Leanings”? Why, just as we were confidently moving into a posttheological, postmetaphysical, even posthistorical era, has the God question broken out anew?"
- Faruk Ahmet
Ya bu Terry babanın Edebiyat Kuramı kitabının baskısı tükenmiş hep, o lazım bana.
- Tolga D.
Tolga: http://urun.gittigidiyor.com/Edebiya... 1 tane kalmış, acele et
- Faruk Ahmet
Ebook için: http://gigapedia.com/
- maymun9
Adam buldu koydu önüme :) Gider kütüphaneden fotokopi çektiririm abi, çok para istiyor, bir de kargo ekle.
- Tolga D.
"The idea, touted in particular by some Americans, that Islamic radicals are envious of Western freedoms is about as convincing as the suggestion that they are secretly hankering to sit in cafés smoking dope and reading Gilles Deleuze."
- Faruk Ahmet
PassiveA. çevirir. Terry'nin de hastasıydı hatırladığım kadarıyla zaten. Sizin dünkü çeviri faaliyetine ne oldu Ömer bey, pes mi ettiniz?
- Faruk Ahmet
Hem irlandali hem gomunust hem edebiyatci hem komik, hem bir zamanlar katolikmiş hem de bir zamanlar cok guzel saclari varmış, onu begenmeyen ölsün.
- Passive Apathetic
Özellikle kimi amerikalılarca çığırkanlığı yapılan radikal islamcıların batının özgürlüğünü kıskandıkları görüşü, (bu radikal islamcıların) aslında gizliden gizliye kafelerde afyon tüttürüp dölöz okuyarak oturmaya can attıkları fikri kadar inandırıcıdır, gibi birşey olmalı, acelem var, ayrıntısına bakamadım.
- Passive Apathetic
Passive, Ömer abi yazının hepsini kastetti sanırım, yalnız o kupleyi değil.
- Faruk Ahmet
Eyoki, you would be REALLY disappointed :) Almost none of it is about the article. Tolga asked if we knew where he could get a copy of Eagleton's "Literary Theory: An Introduction" from. We gave some links. Then Omer said that he wished someone would translate it to Turkish so he could read it more easily bla bla... I'd love to talk about the article if you had anything to add though.
- Faruk Ahmet
I'm very sceptical of this fashion for advancing a pair of abstract, emotionally loaded concepts as opposite poles - opposite forces in some war of ideas. 'Civilisation' v. 'Culture', 'Islam' v. 'The West'. It's like the bloody World Cup! The truth (I believe) is that the 'crisis' is not at core philosophical, political or even economic but demographic. 'The West' is evolving a culture in which people are increasingly unwilling to accept the inconvenience
- Eyoki
from FreshFeed
don't worry. i'll be on vacation for about a week or so, so i won't be able to write long. i promise to open up this topic again when i'm back though, it that ok?
- Faruk Ahmet
Say Cheese - http://www.techcrunchit.com/2009...
Patricia F. Anderson, Nicholas James, Warner Crocker and 20 other people liked this
There is absolutely no way Twitter will replace RSS - that's ludicrous to think a closed system will replace an open one.
- Jesse Stay
It is replacing it
- Steve Gillmor
I read your post via RSS, not Twitter - I would have missed it if it came through Twitter.
- Jesse Stay
Not to mention that Twitter can't read blogs
- Jesse Stay
OK, that's one for Twitter. One for RSS. Keep counting.
- Steve Gillmor
at least not without RSS
- Jesse Stay
when I read blogs on Twitter they're links. Doesn't go through RSS.
- Steve Gillmor
Let's see - Twitter has how many users, vs. the entire internet? I'm counting.
- Jesse Stay
I understand what you're saying Jesse. Keep counting
- Steve Gillmor
Last I checked, even Twitter has to rely on RSS to aggregate to external sites.
- Jason Huebel
And those links were discovered how? I bet each one started as RSS somewhere
- Jesse Stay
In addition, there are many technical details in RSS that Twitter simply doesn't replicate. For instance, media enclosures.
- Jason Huebel
enclosures are being supplanted by streaming
- Steve Gillmor
RSS streams, too
- Jesse Stay
Yet, services like Boxee use RSS to pull in content from streaming services. Any 3rd party would be insane to rely on Twitter as a central aggregation point unless they liked seeing FAIL Whales all the time.
- Jason Huebel
Amen Jason
- Jesse Stay
Twitter != aggregation nirvana. Not by a longshot.
- Jason Huebel
see editor's note
- Steve Gillmor
FriendFeed uses RSS as well. It's how I read this article.
- Jesse Stay
twitter is manual while rss is automagic ;)
- Anthony Farrior
I'd say FriendFeed/Twitter has more growth headroom where RSS is somewhat stalled (and currently unfashionable). Polemics are still immature
- oliver marks
same arguments were used against RSS originally.
- Steve Gillmor
Oliver that's ridiculous. As Twitter/FriendFeed grows, so does RSS. RSS is their backbone.
- Jesse Stay
@oliver, RSS is hardly stalled. It's included-- by default-- in all major/notable CMS's, blogs, etc.
- Jason Huebel
@Steve, yes but RSS is an open standard. You aren't required to rely on any one company. With respect, that is the flaw in your argument.
- Jason Huebel
Jason: why is RSS more open than Twitter or FriendFeed?
- Steve Gillmor
Steve, because no one single company controls it
- Jesse Stay
Twitter doesn't control micromessaging
- Steve Gillmor
Steve, if Twitter or FriendFeed dies, RSS lives on. If Dave Winer dies, it lives on.
- Jesse Stay
Sorry Steve, this is just a totally silly debate heh
- Chris Saad
But your argument is that Twitter would be the replacement for RSS.
- Jason Huebel
Steve, what Chris said
- Jesse Stay
I'm now confused at what we're arguing - seems to have shifted.
- Jesse Stay
no my argument is that Twitter (read FriendFeed) IS the replacement for RSS
- Steve Gillmor
Chris and Jesse if you're bored, leave please
- Steve Gillmor
Steve, FriendFeed and Twitter *are powered* by RSS
- Jesse Stay
Jesse: and other things too
- Steve Gillmor
Steve, I didn't say I was bored. I said it was a silly debate, agreeing with Chris.
- Jesse Stay
Steve, so it seems they aren't going to be replacing RSS any time soon if all of this is powered by RSS
- Jesse Stay
I'm bored and I think there is far more important angles and issues on the table that need to discussed and I wish you would add your voice to those instead
- Chris Saad
I've often wondered why people stick around for silly debates.
- Steve Gillmor
@Steve do you mean twitter is the new way to promo content? I would say in that context you have a point
- Anthony Farrior
jesse: all this stuff is powered by all the stuff that came first
- Steve Gillmor
Steve, so RSS isn't going away? I'm confused now.
- Jesse Stay
did I say RSS is going away. no.
- Steve Gillmor
Steve, you just said it was being replaced by Twitter/FriendFeed
- Jesse Stay
correct, in my house it certainly is
- Steve Gillmor
Second comment above, "It is replacing it"
- Jesse Stay
RSS is the fuel providing the power
- Anthony Farrior
going away != replaced
- Steve Gillmor
Steve says "Twitter is replacing RSS" All the arguments here are not addressing that issue, they're saying why RSS is better. That's beside the point. Lisp is best programming language in the world, no one uses it.
- Phil Windley
parse my words but please don't replace them and expect me to agree
- Steve Gillmor
thanks Phil
- Steve Gillmor
So to replace means something has to not exist any more. I'm very confused.
- Jesse Stay
metaphors can be confusing. I feel your pain
- Steve Gillmor
Phil, but everyone still uses RSS. Not the same argument.
- Jesse Stay
twitter recommends content. Are you saying you now prefer what other people give you instead of picking rss feeds to read yourself?
- Anthony Farrior
okay setting up my new blog i ll replace the rss-feed with a follow me on twitter banner and then redirect updates for new posts to my twitter stream'? seriously, wtf ;-)
- michael h
RSS value & use models are well understood: Twitter is still a mystery to most. RSS scale is an issue: becomes a pavlovian recursive exercise where Twitter is more freeform
- oliver marks
ANthony: no, I choose the people who recommend articles and they provide a more efficient way of handling the flow
- Steve Gillmor
@michael provide both links
- Anthony Farrior
@Steve Ahhh I think I understand .... The "human" suggestion factor instead of the cold push factor
- Anthony Farrior
anthony yes, but not instead. the replacement is gradual and never one or the other
- Steve Gillmor
@anthony thats an answer, why not BOTH ;-) ? I don t get the big fuss bout the issue. anyone should choose
- michael h
There's still a place for both factors. RSS fits in quite nicely with the social element.
- Jesse Stay
@Steve the people you choose to recommend you content probably use RSS so you are just moving down one link further
- Anthony Farrior
Anthony, exactly - Social is simply a layer on top of RSS. It will grow with social, but like it is currently, not everyone will use it directly.
- Jesse Stay
I don't think anything has changed in that matter.
- Jesse Stay
Lets see the list of the once that stoped using RSS ...anyone here ?
- Johni Fisher
...crickets...
- Anthony Farrior
again, the arguments you use were used against RSS itself
- Steve Gillmor
See my comment here: http://friendfeed.com/windley... - RSS is the C, or even assembly language, of the social web.
- Jesse Stay
Steve :saying that you just have to compare the ways that we consume both servcs
- Johni Fisher
don't understand johni
- Steve Gillmor
I cant see no one here that will drop the RSS for Twitter ,when you say replacing it is not the right word in my opinion as we all keep our RSS feeds incoming or outgoing at our blogs etc ... Twitter is an additional stvc but not more than that ,,
- Johni Fisher
understand that johni. don't agree in the larger context of the trend.
- Steve Gillmor
Other important point is the comercial one , I cant see yet the way that we all can benefit from Twitter or a way that Twitter can get an important income from this replacement ,in compare to Google reader or the others ..money move the world if I am not wrong :-))
- Johni Fisher
yes johni, it is harder to see where the money will come, but it will be clearer very soon.
- Steve Gillmor
oh boy I forgot you are now part of the techcrunch gang, you probably know something we don't...Is greader about replace rss feeds for twitter updates? *nervous lol*
- Anthony Farrior
Google Wave might.
- Garin Kilpatrick
I think that there is no other way for Twitter to make 2010 without Google ,when this will come the change with the integration to Wave will be able to replace the RSS ,in the case that you have this info at your side we can agree
- Johni Fisher
RSS is a way of pushing out content. There is no need to push it out if it is live.
- Garin Kilpatrick
Real-Time > RSS am I right?
- Garin Kilpatrick
Garin, RSS is real-time as well. See rssCloud and Hubbub
- Jesse Stay
Exactly but Steve has resorted to the human touch, the "I recommend and therefore I retweet"...
- Anthony Farrior
publish subscribe hub pubsubhub
- Anthony Farrior
I don't RSS going anywhere. There will always be uses for it. But there are always many different ways of digesting information
- Seth Goldstein
There are some truths in here that go beyond the narrow "social" or "tech" tag. Great read.
- Aron Michalski
So is RSS the http://tinyurl.com/first-m... or candidate for oldest "living" http://www.scotsmagazine.com/ ? I'm hopeful most folks reading and contributing here were party to the orgy of exuberance for Gopher... I mean HTTP. RSS as it exists today will be something that gets leapfrogged as every other moment-in-time solution has so far. Sitting back and clinging to RSS format is just [insert widget] attention span competition. Format wars are mutually assured stagnation. Stagnation is death.
- Jay Cuthrell
So, I was wondering... does RSS afford this kind of debate as part of its structure?
- Cliff Gerrish
Cliff - sure, we just post our comments to each other on the doors of the Schlosskirche via RSS
- Jay Cuthrell
RSS is dying a slow death. So long as content is syndicated RSS will remain alive; right now RSS is alive and well. But the life of online technologies are short, since technologies shift, and once online content distribution shifts fully from syndication to synchronization RSS will be dead. The Real-Time web will have killed it.
- Garin Kilpatrick
Can't we all just be friends?
- Francine Hardaway
Francine just gave me a RSS-FOAF flashback :)
- Jay Cuthrell
Twitter is not real-time for putting through blog links unless someone happens to be on the news site, reads the article, and posts a link to Twitter within minutes (unless the author manually posts the link). Pubsubhubbub will still beat that by minutes or seconds. Many like me feed through to Twitter using Twitterfeed which uses typical RSS technology.
- beersage
Twitter claims to be real-time but it is not there yet. Neither is ff, but they are closer. I am excited to see the mark the Google wave makes on this scene.
- Garin Kilpatrick
Francine, I think Scoble tried to be friends with everybody but it didn't work out.
- Cliff Gerrish
Does this argument matter? Is it more than a way to pass the time?
- Michael Markman
Yes
- Steve Gillmor
Is there a compelling reason to further evangelize your point? We get it it. Fantastic, for you, it's dead. Makes perfect sense. But at this point you're not just beating a dead horse, you're beating the top soil covering the hole in which you buried the horse. How about we move on to more constructive things.
- Benjamin Taylor
Benjamin: I wrote this in May. Others continue to discuss it. I will respond when my ethics or credibility is attacked. Various folks have asked me to elaborate and I have. If you're tired of it, unfollow me. And expressing what I see as valuable is never unconstructive from my perspective. Leaving insinuation and misinformation unchallenged is unconstructive imo.
- Steve Gillmor
RT @mikeloukides This is scary. Wall Street doing for life insurance what it did for mortgage: securitization. http://www.nytimes.com/2009...
Jose Maria Pelaez, David HC Soul, Warner Crocker and 2 other people liked this
RT @GottaLaff: OUR OWN @karoli on CNN: "All the issues are lost..." http://thepoliticalcarnival.blogspot.com/2009... || appreciate the emphasis he placed on that. truly
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