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Winston Teo › Likes

arunthampi
How the iPhone Changed Kayak’s Business – GigaOM - http://gigaom.com/2009...
Four hours ago? Couldn't sleep? - Andy Croll
This is known as innovation which has been forgotten for.. quite a while? - Winston Teo
Andy Croll
Good work by @e27sg http://www.e27.sg/2009... I thought of a bizfile lookup but was too tight to spend the $15!
Sunny Wong
@chuyeow CERN. Actually. I really wanna work on that Hardon collider!
Errr... hardon collider?? Should I even ask? - Gary Theis from iPhone
LOL I didn't notice the mispelling! - Chu Yeow
I promise I'm safe. Please don't let this affect my chance of getting a job :( - Sunny Wong
This links nicely to the "hugz" you were giving Winston. Um, no maybe not, you'd need 2 Hardon particles to make a collision. - Chu Yeow
That's not helping, @chuyeow. No thanks to you! - Sunny Wong
So are you coming back? - Winston Teo
That solely depends on the Wego's management. - Sunny Wong
please do not bring your hard-on collider... - Mon Geslani
arunthampi
Confreaks: RubyConf 2009 - http://rubyconf2009.confreaks.com/
RubyConf! - arunthampi from Bookmarklet
qiaoling
Enquired on increasing my mailbox size, learned that Singnet charges $5 per MB (yes, MB not GB) per mth. HELLO?! ARE U LIVING IN THE 90s?
1990 called. They want their disk space back! - Sunny Wong from iPhone
That's why we quit sghost a long while back, some ISPs just don't get it - Gary Theis from iPhone
Paul Buchheit
I can tell when my code is good, but I can't tell when my writing is good. Sometimes it clicks, and sometimes it doesn't. Why is that?
Writing need more unit tests and ETE testing. - Kevin Fox
No, I can tell my code is good by looking at it. Maybe I just need to write more? - Paul Buchheit
No one knows Paul, we just need to keep writing. :) - Jorge Escobar
Honestly, largely it's a lack of standardized metrics. (aka subjectivity) - Kevin Fox
...code is written to do something that can be observed, measured, tested. Writing, unless it's notes for yourself, is supposed to communicate to other people, and there's no way to really know if they got what you meant until they read it... - .LAG liked that
No error messages? There's grammatical and spelling ones...but we need secret robot farms with high IQs to tell us if something is good or not - Itachi
Most professional writers do a lot of drafts. It's good on your first draft to leave out the editing principle in your head, and just write in a stream of consciousness way, or in other words just write what comes to your mind first without editing it. They call that the "lyrical" factor. Then after that first draft you can bring in the editing factor to clean it up. But on another note, FriendFeed is the smoothest running web app on the internet. How'd you do that? :-) - Stephen Pickering
Relative amounts of time spent crafting each one? - Bill Moorier
Because, you're a coder/engineer. Eloquence in one language doesn't translate to another :) - Mo Kargas
"In praise of the maxim.— A good maxim is too hard for the teeth of time and whole millennia cannot consume it, even though it serves to nourish every age: it is thus the great paradox of literature, the imperishable in the midst of change, the food that is always in season, like salt—though, unlike salt, it never loses its savor." -- Nietzsche, "Human, All Too Human," 168 - barce
I think because it's a lot easier to measure (or, with your experience, to guess the measurement) of the performance and efficiency of code than the performance and efficiency of writing. English, spoken word, essays, books -- it's a more variegated language. Its features are less crisp, more nebulous. In 2009, we assume the function and performance of writing is such that it makes one... more... - tom harada
I've also never understood how salt loses its savor. That never happens to my salt, and chemically I can't imagine what would do that. - Paul Buchheit
the writing was good... at least if you're talking about the post I think you're talking about. - Jim: Dead Like FF
How your code will be executed is well-defined. If it's concise and executes correctly, it's good. Prose is harder. Sometimes you should repeat yourself; sometimes you shouldn't. The effect of a phrase varies from person to person. - Bruce Lewis
When I get a vision in my head for some code, I often can write something that reads as nicely as that vision. When I get a vision in my head for an essay, what I end up writing rarely reads as nicely, even to my own eyes, as what I had imagined. - Bruce Lewis
I bet you can find writers that say just the opposite - Jesse Stay
Because your writing software doesn't give you warnings or errors when you type something crappy. (Imagine what the internet would be like if blogging software did!) - April Russo (app103)
Microsoft Word with a compiler, type checking and intellisense. Very good April, very good. - Roberto Bonini from iPhone
I think you - like many - haven't seen enough writing you really like, and consciously so. Try to watch for articles/essays that really resonate with you, and look at the form, not just the message. I agree with others here that producing good writing will probably take lots of revisions, just like many coders refactor (or should I say "tweak") their code endlessly, if only the method names, order of variables, the way error/exception handling are structured, etc. - Meryn Stol
On a side note, one of my favorite FriendFeed features is the ability to "tweak" my comments after I posted them. I'm rarely satisfied with my first draft of a paragraph-length comment. Secret to good code and to good writing is having a very demanding internal critic. - Meryn Stol
Good writers *know* when the right words are in the right places. Writing is much more like music than programming -- an intuitive sense of elegant balance among elements which sustains an easy flow of forward energy towards a point or revelation. - Sean McBride
Revisit what "my writing" means: http://www.youtube.com/watch... - zeroinfluencer
It's the same thing when you throw a paper ball into a trash can, you know as soon as you let go whether it's going to go in or not. :P - Evan Travers
Good writing is good more because of its good style rather than its underlying propositional content. Programs are the opposite. Code has a lot of style, but propositional content rules, which is easier to appreciate. Writing is much more style, so writing has many more possible combinations that can express an intention, which means there are many more ways of doing it wrong, and it's hard to find the right way. - Todd Hoff
Good writing has a cadence and flow that is easier to feel verbally than on paper (for me, anyway). Read what you've written out loud: if your voice gains confidence/speed as you go, totally immersed in the words (in the rhetorical style of Barack Obama), you're done. If instead you stop and restart, looping back on yourself, with the words calling attention to how they don't quite fit (in the rhetorical style of George Bush), you're not done yet. After a few tries out loud you'll find a better phrasing. - Lexi Baugher
Jonathan Swift on style: "Proper words in proper places." - Sean McBride
"Swift's style is, in its line, perfect; the manner is a complete expression of the matter, the terms appropriate, and the artifice concealed. It is simplicity in the true sense of the word." (Samuel Coleridge, "Lecture on Style," 1818) - Sean McBride
arunthampi
"Why homepages becomes a Las Vegas visual experience Incrementally-developed UIs that are never refactored often turn into a Las Vegas visual experience over time. Ya know, something that looks like this:" - arunthampi from Bookmarklet
Forgot to bookmark permalink http://andrewchenblog.com/2009... - arunthampi from iPhone
I like this line: "Yet it’s often hard to reorganize the whole site, especially if it means taking a short-term dip on traffic, so the “safe” thing to do becomes to incrementally add things until the user experience is horrible..". - Winston Teo
Bret Taylor
International growth has started to completely dominate on FriendFeed since August. Below is an unlabeled graph of page views on FriendFeed this month, broken down by country. Guess which country is the largest green slice below? (Hint: it is not English-speaking)
graph.png
Turkey?? - Roberto Bonini from iPhone
We are still blocked in Iran - Bret Taylor
Turkey - Cliff Gerrish
turkey, imho. - 1Co
Oh and good to see you bret. - Roberto Bonini from iPhone
Turkey is in fact the green slice. Orange is also not English speaking. Guess which country :) - Bret Taylor
france - WorldofHiglet
Japan or Italy? Maybe Portugal? - Itachi
Hmm.. Turkey is the biggest international... I am not surprised (: - Ozgur Demir
i totally don't know my FF :( - Marshall Kirkpatrick
FF is rising fast in Turkey I guess. And will probably continue to rise for some time. Celebrities are joining too (: - Hakan Deryal
I am guessing the orange is Canada :P - Johnny Worthington
COUNTRY OR CONTINENT?UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.... - Pam Gwenzi
@Brent. is USA one of these countries ? or does chart only show internationals ? - Ozgur Demir
USA is blue. About 23% of our page views now. - Bret Taylor
Does Australia get a slice? - Johnny Worthington
@Bret, Can we get more info about Turkey in FF? - Hakan Deryal
India - Hayes Haugen
The orange slice is actually Italy, believe it or not. Turkey and Italy have been growing like gangbusters the past few months. - Bret Taylor
@Bret. yes, your guess is correct (about gangs) (: - Ozgur Demir
Sweet, correct guess :) - Itachi
I believe it - RAPatton from iPhone
Turkey. hehe :) - Oğuz Serdar from Android
What is the gray then, Bret? - Itachi
what is the gray? - Mycaptain
some of our friends from US don't know about FF, lol :) - Ufuk Özgül
Gray is "other" - Bret Taylor
where other is proxied users from Iran. ;) - EricaJoy
If we were not blocked , we would win a big slice for iran :( - Milad.p from FreshFeed
Both China and Iran would have been in there if they were not both blocked currently - Bret Taylor
Is Russia any of the other slices pictured above? (other than gray) - Itachi
That's where Australia is, in the grey :) - Glenn Slaven
OMG. Friendfeed is going the way of Orkut ;) Btw, is Norway/Scandinavia even visible in all this ? Just curious. - Thomas Bøhm
@thomas. even though Orkut is Turkish (the guy), it is (site) not big in Turkey. - Ozgur Demir
i'm sure finland is forbidden long time ago from this list ;) - Nia from fftogo
Just look at the public feed for 2 secs or 2 hours - yep, definitely. - Micah Wittman from iPhone
Facebook has a very similar story as far as I know.. we are a communicative nation:) - Neşe Uyanık
Who's Gray? It's Gray, Louis of course :) - Micah Wittman
Thank you for sharing this graph, Bret. - Micah Wittman
Interesting - though for the sake of data visualization, pie charts are the worst of all.... :) - See-ming Lee 李思明 SML
See-ming, a-hem, take a look at your avatar ;) - Micah Wittman
@Bret, what is the exact number of Turkish people on FF? - Ozkan Altuner
Ozkan, I'd be curious to know too, but I have a feeling there's an internal policy about not releasing absolute numbers, hence the percentages. But it never hurts to ask :) - Micah Wittman
@Micah, it's the page view, however, not the number of users :) - Ozkan Altuner
Good point, Ozkan. But I can't remember Visitor or View counts ever publicly reported before. But today could be the first time! :) - Micah Wittman
Iran :-) - Nimaa
Everyone knows teh fuckin answer Bret. It's Turkey. Mahir loves you http://www.ikissyou.org - Ahmet Alp Balkan from iPod
I'm not surprised that Turkey is the green portion. I've seen more and more Turkish posts in my home feed. I thought it was just a biased sample, but perhaps not. - John (a.k.a. dendroica)
Iran - Assal
Intense competition between Iran and Turkey occurred :D - Nimaa
Hmmmmmmmmmmm...MOZAMBIQUE luminous orange l guess - Pam Gwenzi
the desire to push the boundaries of internet of the turkish is troubling. the possesive tendecies of the turkish can be observed in the currently popular ''ff bu deYil'' (this is not ff) comment. turks are crowding ff, westerners are in panic! - ferayebend
turks are invading ff!!! call norad - aadagger
international growth dominates FF and yet the USA dominates the world. Not always in good ways either. What is the link? I don't think there is one. All I can say is that I love the USA and I love FriendFeed. What does it all mean? More free, cold beer is needed to find the answers. - Morgan Haley
.. because, Turkish Facebook users are 10-20 years old. FF is very good alternative for older users. (and in addition Twitter is non-useful) - Murat Tatar
Bret would that mean that FF has around 200K Turkish users? http://siteanalytics.compete.com/friendf... - Cem ARGUN
Murat Tatar. So you've seen that Turkish Facebook users demographics ? even though it's unpublished. - Ozgur Demir
SO when are we gonna party BRET? :) - Bahriye
Actually, I wonder when Bret is gonna post something like "FF bu degil!".. - Ozgur Demir
What do we care :) FF is this. And this is the rl. SO THE QUESTION IS: When are we gonna party! - Bahriye
Bret start learning Turkish. You should have guessed from the reactions the days a.) you changed the design, b.) announced the FB deal. :) - Cem ARGUN
I've noticed it on my feed. It's all good. - Eric @ CSTechcast.com
I've noticed a huge increase in Iran, peaking at about 7-8am Eastern - H0llywoodWh0re
Just curious, what's happening with total page views? (I don't trust alexa, compete, etc.) - Bruce Lewis
@Bret, 1- Turkey, 2- USA, 3- Italy, 4- India, 5- Japan, 6- Germany, 7- UK & Russia 8 - Pakistan 9- Iran 10- Canada.. Is it True? - Kemalettin Bulamacı
italian power! yeah! ;) - Dario Salvelli
Anyone worth their weight in tweets knows that it's turkey. - Richard A.
knew it english speaker are way down - ffcode
Turkey? - ★ Soner Gönül
If that is so, can we get some way of filtering by language? I want to follow more international people but be able to ignore them or their friends when they post in what I cannot read :) - Joelle Nebbe (iphigenie)
Turkiye :) - Mustafa Çamaltı
italy rules!! :-) - batta
My bet's on India - Rod Nicolson
Country dominating FriendFeed? My guess...Brazil (have to bet on the homeland) - Victoria Harres Akers
Btw, FriendFeed is blocked in Turkish Schools :( - F. Batuhan Icoz from iPhone
It's blocked in US schools that I attended as well F. Batuhan :( - Itachi
Italy? - Matte
You may have to develop "hide by language" feature very soon. - Bahadır Yağan
Afghanistan - Pam Gwenzi
go italy! - Alessandro
How much does the UK get? - Kol Tregaskes
Turkey is the winner btw. - Kol Tregaskes
YEAH TURKEY ! - Çağatay " SKYLAB " Şama
different kind of widgets? I don't like with blue line. years fighting with it :) and option to change fonts. please :) - Okeane
#Turkey of course ;) - Volkan Özçelik
Iran خودشم تو روحت که دیشب فرفر و خراب کرده بودی . اگه تونستی بفهم چی گفتم ! - حاج مهدی ©
Gotta be Turkey. It is Thanksgiving weekend, after all! - Mark "DerBingle" J
Is there any place to get a full breakdown, including the smaller slices, by country with percentages? Thanks. - Mikeynitle
@bret, what is the number of friendfeed users in total? - elodeon
Sunny Wong
Dailymotion - Twilight Sucks! - a Film & TV video - http://www.dailymotion.com/video...
What classic vampire thinks of Twilight vampires. - Sunny Wong
I totally dislike that movie. Ranks at the bottom together with X-Files. - Winston Teo from iPhone
I can understand why I dislike it but why do you hate it too? - Sunny Wong from iPhone
The female lead is ugly.. The vampire must be blind.. - Winston Teo
Well he's 107, I wouldn't be surprised if he's suffering from some sort of eye damage. - Sunny Wong
I thought the female lead in this video looked better than the one in the show... - qiaoling from iPod
Sunny Wong
Andy Croll
Optimizing asset bundling and serving with Rails - GitHub - http://github.com/blog...
think if you 'preroll' the packaging it'll work on Heroku too. - Andy Croll
Chu Yeow
ぐるなび - 天ぷら 船橋屋 本店 - http://r.gnavi.co.jp/g141907/
Funabashi tempura in Tokyo. - Chu Yeow
It's very near Isetan, if that helps. Diagonally opposite. - Winston Teo
yummy! - qiaoling
Paul Buchheit
An early birthday present: The Gmail Javascript compiler was just open-sourced! http://code.google.com/closure... (it compiles JS into smaller, faster JS)
We first started work on it almost 8 years ago. It has come a long way since then :) - Paul Buchheit
Happy Birthday Paul! - Merry Xmas FFeeders - AJ
Today is actually just my internet birthday. - Paul Buchheit
Well, thanks :) But for a verbose API I'll stick with YUI :P Have to inspect the power of templating and compiler, though. - Claudio Cicali ♋
I wonder what happens when you apply it recursively -- can you get down to 1 byte of code that takes no time to execute? ;=) - Brian Sullivan
Finally! This is great. - Tudor Bosman
Happy Birthday! - Robert Scoble
Nice! - Micah Wittman
Unfortunately it looks like the internationalization features may be missing. I wonder why those were removed? (or if I'm just not seeing it) - Paul Buchheit
Paul you are my best-friend :`( - \(*_*)/
if you were starting a new site today, would you use this over jquery (which friendfeed uses)? - Karl Rosaen
Karl, jquery is a library, this is a compiler. I would use them both. - Paul Buchheit
well, i mean closure library :) but yeah, they could be used together - Karl Rosaen
ah, i see this is a link closure compiler, not the broader closure tools. - Karl Rosaen
Refactoring, JS style. - Gabe
Now, this is a good news - Ozkan Altuner
@Paul the Closure project has three components: compiler, library, and template language. Looks like the Closure/library might be competing with jQuery. - Shakeel Mahate
this is sweet! - Jay
I think jQuery does a lot of stuff that might confuse the compiler, e.g. iterating over an array of string function names and creating new function wrappers (look at the way the parent/child/next/prev/etc functions get installed) The Closure library is also full of type annotations that help the compiler make better optimization choices, so you're likely to get a better compiled outcome using Closure than jQuery + fixes + compiler - Ray Cromwell
@paul -- I know you've been wanting this opensourced for a long time. sorry it took such a long time. Nick Santos and the jscompiler team has finally done it! Cheers! - Jing Lim
Happy Birthday - ashish
Happy Birthday, Paul! - Andrew Terry
Happy Birthday Paul - Sandeep Kalidindi
Happy B'day Paul! don't be evil :) - sirishkumar
Congratulations to the team (and @Paul & Jing) -- I know everyone's been waiting a long time for this. For anyone considering whether to use jQuery vs Closure, consider that they're meant for largely different purposes. jQuery's good for enhancing static web pages; Closure's much better at building large apps. And as Ray points out above, Closure the library is going to get much better results from Closure the compiler than an arbitrary js library would, because of all the type annotations. - Joel Webber
Paul Buchheit has been at the top of my best of pages all month. Rock on, Paul. - Donald C. Lindsay
Hey HAPPY BIRTHDAY PAUL !!! Cool present!! <insert CAKE> :D - Susan Beebe
Paul, any comment on this write up? http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs... - Sachin
That writeup is trolling for traffic IMHO. Nit picking 50 lines out of 200+ thousand (written for readability, which get compiled and optimized), providing no benchmarks for claims, and spending half the time bashing Java, it just seems to be struggling to find something wrong with Closure. - Ray Cromwell
Sachin: he seems to be commenting on Closure the JS library, not Closure the JS compiler (that Paul's post was about). And he may be a douchebag, but I haven't seen anything I disagree with. - Gabe
@Sachin: I hate to be too harsh, but that post is pretty much garbage. From what I can tell he's pretty much managed to enumerate some of the worst things about Javascript -- nitpicking the code for referencing "undefined" directly without declaring it as an uninitialized local? That's insane. Following this advice is mostly a recipe for an unreadable mess. Also, look in the comments for several refutations of the idea that some of these are even optimizations. - Joel Webber
Joel, you're just not man enough to handle a language where 'top' is an implicitly reserved keyword, and 'undefined' which should be, isn't. But it could be worse, 'null' could be something you could override. :) - Ray Cromwell
arunthampi
On designer humility - garry's posterous - http://garry.posterous.com/on-desi...
On designer humility - garry's posterous
"Apple wins because the guy who cares the most about user experience happens to run the show. And last I checked, humble wasn’t really a word you could use to describe him." - arunthampi from Bookmarklet
arunthampi
Hadn't touched the #wego Java codebase in a while & was awesome to see @phungleson has refactored a lot of the crappy code i'd written. win!
arunthampi
Please use the interwebz responsibly.
Paul Buchheit
Idea for a useful webapp: A tool for doing web page mockups that's better than Photoshop because things actually look right (because it's rendered by the browser). It doesn't need to generate good html, so absolute positioning, etc is ok.
Totally brilliant idea. I write my own bad html mockups in a text editor or whatever IDE I'm playing with at the time, but a tool to ease this process would mean I could get on to abandoning the half-finished project much sooner than usual. :-) - Slappy Line
Um, isn't that what Balsamiq does?? - Cyndy
Please god no, don't create another "doesn't need to generate good html" code generator. srsly - Jason Wehmhoener
Well, as for the mockups, there is really great Firefox extension called Pencil. You should try it. - Mladen Srdić
using Cappuccino, an open source framework that makes it easy to build desktop-caliber applications that run in a web browser? - huixing
Paul, have you checked out Axure http://www.axure.com/? I've typically used Visio or resorted to whiteboards/paper as they are easier to edit. - Jauder Ho
Jason, I would be fine with it not generating html at all. As for Balsamiq and some of the others, the idea is actually that it would look more like the final product instead of less. Photoshop gets fonts wrong and stuff because it isn't a web browser, and yet people still keep using it, so it seems that it must have some advantage over the other tools. - Paul Buchheit
Photoshop has two major advantages, multiple uses and precision. Photoshop can be used for more than just web mockups. One person can achieve multiple goals with Photoshop while a mockup tool just makes mockups. The second advantage is the mockups look great in presentations because the author has complete control. Photoshop mockups aren't real they're hyper-real. - Kevin D. White
Are mockups that look exactly like the finished product even desirable? I'm reminded of the "Napkin Look & Feel" (http://napkinlaf.sourceforge.net/#Overvi...) - Laurence Gonsalves
Depends whether your goal is to sketch and idea or create a final design. For the latter, you really do want it to be pixel perfect. For the former, you want a "wireframe" or whatever the cool kids call it these days. - ⓞnor
What ⓞnor said. For "wireframes" a whiteboard is fine, but eventually you want pixel-perfect designs. - Paul Buchheit
Paul, you should check out Denim, http://dub.washington.edu:2007/denim... - imabonehead
Paul have you tried Fireworks, that's what our designers use. - Michael
http://www.balsamiq.com I got this link from Cooper U boards a while back, and a lot of my co-workers have found it very useful. While it's not pixel perfect, it allows for really quick mock ups with the idea that the design of the end product will be done by actual designers. - Sam Ee
http://www.balsamiq.com/product... That's a better link. The demo video sold me on the idea. - Sam Ee
I've been looking for something like this for years. Balsamiq is definitely a good start, but I feel like there's not quite enough depth yet. Has anyone had luck with stencils like the ones found at http://graffletopia.com/ (for Omni Graffle)? - Sutee Dee
pixel perfect? The web isn't print. Complete control over the rendering environment is an illusion. Don't submit to it! - Andy Bakun
Paul, have you checked out Axure RP? - Jauder Ho
Vi is pretty good. You just write some text and point a browser at it. - Cliff Gerrish
Try wireframing and prototyping apps - I am not sure if output is rendered at browser level though. Protoshare.com, jumpchart.com, productplanner.com - TrafficBug
Done, already - Ozkan Altuner
Chu Yeow
Github's Resque http://github.com/blog.... Was thinking yet another queue but the blog post is convincing. Esp since Wego is 50% background tasks.
Are we going to use this? - Winston Teo
Chu Yeow
Introducing Resque - GitHub - http://github.com/blog...
Ilya Grigorik
Load balancing at Github: Why ldirectord? | Anchor Web Hosting Blog - http://www.anchor.com.au/blog...
Haproxy author replies in the comments. - Chu Yeow from iPhone
Sunny Wong
Reduced assignment's runtime from ~800ms to ~20ms. Exciting shit.
arunthampi
Sending SMS's using iPhone SDK 3.0 - A workaround - http://mclov.in/2009...
Sunny Wong
Chopsticks feeding Squirrel-like Kitten リスのような子貓 (by Canon EOS 500d / Rebel T1i) - http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Chopsticks feeding Squirrel-like Kitten リスのような子貓 (by Canon EOS 500d / Rebel T1i)
Play
Lol it looks like it'll turn into a gremlin. - Chu Yeow
Chu Yeow
Arnold Schwarzenegger's coded F-bomb in veto - Boing Boing - http://www.boingboing.net/2009...
Arnold Schwarzenegger's coded F-bomb in veto - Boing Boing
via @garytheis - Chu Yeow from Bookmarklet
Lim Chee Aun
Lim Chee Aun
Lim Chee Aun
@winstonyw your tweet sort of reminded me of http://www.youtube.com/watch...
@winstonyw your tweet sort of reminded me of http://bit.ly/j4TLS
Play
Chu Yeow
Good post on single-/multi-tasking - http://jameswfrost.co.uk/2009... (via @redha).
He's right. I stopped reading after the 4th para, because I wasn't able to concentrate.. - Winston Teo
arunthampi
How I knew I was done with my company | Derek Sivers - http://sivers.org/done
Vanessa Tan
Empty show and glory: Today, I had the pleasure of having lunch at a friend’s place. While her home was old, th.. http://vantan.org/archive...
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