Fwd: Day 10 of P90 is DONE! Sculpt 1-2 this time! I managed to do a few pushups on my toes (yeah I'm a wuss)!! Very happy to see progress. Need to resume working out in the mornings. Gonna be hell tomorrow. (via http://friendfeed.com/tad...)
Note to Fellow Christians: Don't assume because someone says they're Christian that they represent represent "good" values. Many horrible deeds have been masterminded by self-professed Christians... deeds that line up better with the Satan camp than the Jesus camp. Just sayin'...
Just heard a radio quote from a Sarah Palin supporter. Her sum total rationale for supporting Palin? "Well, she's a Christian, so she has good values."
- Mark Jepsen
Good point Mark. I've long struggled with this issue. It's likely at the root of why I don't want to call myself a Christian anymore and why I'm having difficulty finding the right church environment.
- Junebug (aka Sarah Jill)
Mohandas Gandhi: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
- William Harryman
...and lets 4get the Catholic scandel (sexual abuse) in Ireland. Just being a Christian is not enough..one needs to practice and have true human values.
- Peter Dawson
All religions have had their share of extremists and hypocrites. We've got far too many people attaching certain evil actions to specific religions. True human values really have no religious boundaries or affiliations.
- Allan Besselink
Let us remember that it was the disciples (students) of Christ that were first called Christians. If you are not disciplining yourself to follow Christ, then the label is completely useless. With that - I think we need (as Christians) to start being able to say that someone is NOT a Christian if the values do not match up with Jesus'. A person can CALL themselves a vegetarian, but if I see them wolfing down a Harris Ranch Filet Mignon, I can say that they are NOT, in fact, a vegetarian.
- Jeremy (cropmarks)
Yep, the problem is when you see intolerant, rude, disrespectful, and/or immoral people being seen as being Christian. Going to church doesn't make you a good person, any more than drinking diet soda makes you healthy.
- Alex Scoble
And no, I'm not equating diet soda with church...just saying that actions make you a good person, not your ideals/beliefs.
- Alex Scoble
I really believe a lot of this discussion is directly pursuant to the "Sola Gracia" teachings that were a backlash against the Catholic church from the Reformation theologians. Martin Luther couldn't understand the book of James because it spoke about the idea that one cannot claim faith when actions do not back up that claim. "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has...
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- Jeremy (cropmarks)
As someone once said, Alex, "The Church is not a museum for saints; it's a hospital for sinners."
- Glen Mistletoe
The problem I have with a lot of true Christians is that they do not distance themselves from the self-professed Christians who firmly belief that they are the only true Christians. It's a few bad apples to give the orchard a bad reputation.
- Rene Wirtz
Alex, that sounds like a good thought, and on the outside of things it would seems so, but the truth is: none of us are good. Jesus did not come to make bad people good, He came to make dead people live. And when a person has that "life" on the inside of him or her, from that source come good works to others. Jesus gave us an interesting criteria about who were Christians: He said "If...
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- Melanie Reed
Faith without knowledge is trouble just waiting to happen.
- Paul W. Homer
Nor should one assume that if one has good values that they're necessarily a Christian, right?
- Mr. Gunn
Sorry, Melanie, but you can believe all you want...that alone won't get you where you want to be. Belief without action is mental masturbation. Righteous action without belief is still righteous.
- Alex Scoble
An action is just an action. Righteousness is in the eye of the beholder.
- Akiva Moskovitz
/me smites Akiva for the common good.
- Alex Scoble
I consider "Christianity" to be the most hypocritical of all faiths. And yes, I was raised as one. I fail to see where it has made most of those who profess to belong to it better people.
- LANjackal
Christianity is what saved me from being a hypocrite.
- Jeremy (cropmarks)
Whoops I can see where this one is going. Hiding this topic. See y'all
- LANjackal
I'd agree that Christianity probably hasn't made most of its followers better people. BUT the handful of guys I've met who truly, deeply came to understand Christ's teachings and rebuild their lives around them (in prison) are some of the most remarkable people I ever hope to meet. I'm still an atheist, but damn. "True" Christians, if that's what they're called, are really amazing people. (however I haven't met many!)
- Lo is a Quitter
I agree, Lo...true Christians are amazing, because they practice what they preach. Unfortunately, there are a lot more that preach opposite to what they practice.
- Alex Scoble
Fruit. You gotta look for the fruit. If there ain't any fruit, then you gotta wonder.
- Mellissa Claus
All but the most insanely fundamentalist of Christians today would not recognize (and would likely be appalled by) the Christianity of 400, or even 200 years ago. The more influenced a flavor of Christianity has been by Enlightenment values, the more benign it is.
- Christopher A Carr
Unfortunately the sign in front of a church in Cedar Rapids is gone now, but it said "God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts."
- Rene Wirtz
Mark, yes I agree with your original statement. And conversely, many kind and self-sacrificing acts by real Christians go unnoticed by those around them. This is not an age hallmarked by appreciation for the quiet and discreet. God Himself works everyday to provide good things for us and how often do we notice or praise Him for it? Yet he does. And I know I could not make it without...
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- Melanie Reed
A guy claiming to be Christian may even be one of those Gnostic bastards, reading the wrong Gospels, am i right? :)
- Eivind
And NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!!
- Morgan Haley
Melanie: "God Himself works everyday to provide good things for us..." How do you know? That's just an empty assertion.
- Christopher A Carr
:) Not empty, Christopher. I have made an assertion and it is based on firm evidence that I see everyday. And it is based on knowledge from those whom I trust who have also seen that evidence before me.
- Melanie Reed
I think you may be confused as to what constitutes reliable "evidence."
- Christopher A Carr
I may be confused as to what constitutes the inverse of an Augmented Matrix, but I am not confused in the least about the reliable evidence of a loving God. :)
- Melanie Reed
What about autistic? What about Asberger's? What about ugly? What about stinky?
- Jeremy (cropmarks)
Christopher, Your second two points are closer to the truth, yes: He does have a plan for them.
- Melanie Reed
Brainless babies can't do anything but respirate for a short time, then die. What could possibly be the point?
- Christopher A Carr
The point is that you and I can't resurrect and heal them but God can.
- Melanie Reed
Christopher, this life isn't"the point" at all. Those unfortunate souls will be taken care of where there is no sickness and pain.
- Jeremy (cropmarks)
Why cause a brainless baby to be birthed in the first place?
- Christopher A Carr
Christopher, the universe is not a playground, is it where we do what we want and someone makes it better and we go on doing whatever we want?. Would that be controlled or would it be tyranny?
- Melanie Reed
An all-knowing deity knows everything, right? Including the fact that this "disobedience" would happen. So "he" is ultimately responsible for every single infant that is ever born without a brain above its face.
- Christopher A Carr
Anger is understandable. But God is not to blame. That is our responsibility. And responsibility has hard consequences that tear at the heart. It hurts God. That is why He has made a way out for us. And that way is open to you and anyone else who wants to accept it.
- Melanie Reed
You just avoided the issue by regurgitating religious platitudes.
- Christopher A Carr
Let's say you're an all-powerful, all-knowing deity, and you decide to create a universe. If you're genuinely omniscient, you'll know everything that will ever transpire in this universe -- including who you'll be "required" to torture forever, and who you won't. Any such being is ultimately responsible for everything that occurs in its universe.
- Christopher A Carr
Does your deity know if I'm going to be tortured forever? If not, he's not omniscient.
- Christopher A Carr
What is torturing you, Christopher and do you want to DM me?
- Melanie Reed
Your god sends people to be tortured forever in hell, yes?
- Christopher A Carr
No, Christopher, we decide by our choices in regard to heaven or hell. But I think you may mean hell in another sense?
- Melanie Reed
No, I mean hell in the Christian sense. Does your deity know ahead of time if I'll be going to hell or not?
- Christopher A Carr
In other words, when Yahweh created my soul, did he know what would happen to it?
- Christopher A Carr
Christopher, God has the ability to exercise foreknowledge but not the way you and I tend to think of it. His thinking is higher than ours and it allows for choice always as long as there is life! You have a choice.
- Melanie Reed
Did he know if my soul would end up in hell when he created it? Yes, or no?
- Christopher A Carr
I can not answer something that would put me in the position of judgment on you or anyone. That is not mine to decide. What God is saying is that your future is not cut off unless you make that choice. And God is giving you and me and everyone else the same opportunity to make that choice.
- Melanie Reed
I'm not asking you to judge anything. Is it your understanding that your deity knows everything?
- Christopher A Carr
God knows the beginning and the end of a matter.
- Melanie Reed
He didn't immediately know where Adam and Eve was, when they hid in the Garden from what I've read.
- Eivind
Then I am forced to conclude that Yahweh (were he to exist, a fact for which there is thankfully ZERO evidence) created the vast majority of souls for the purpose of having something to torture for an eternity.
- Christopher A Carr
No Christopher, he created humans out of love. He took the risk to allow everyone to make their own choice, knowing some would not make a wise choice and cause pain to themselves and to others would result.
- Melanie Reed
Ah, I see. He was just pretending he didn't know, like you do with small children.
- Eivind
Elvind, no, he wanted to give them the chance to own up and be honest.
- Melanie Reed
But Melanie, he knew when he made them who would and who would not make certain choices (so there's not really a choice). Why make a soul that's destined to be tortured forever?
- Christopher A Carr
How do you know these things, Melanie? They're not explained in the Bible.
- Eivind
Christopher, knowing what someone will do and causing them to do it are two different things. This is why God warns Cain in the beginning: "That thou mayest not sin" Choice. Always. Choice. There is always hope, Christopher, and the fact that you are asking gives me hope!
- Melanie Reed
I always wonder about the fate of otherwise good people who believe other things, or are never even exposed to the One system (whichever one that may be) that could save them.
- LogEx
Melanie, but if you know that someone will do a thing that leads them to eternal torture, why create them in the first place?
- Christopher A Carr
LogEx, God gives all of us an opportunity no matter where we are to make a choice,
- Melanie Reed
Well, LogEx, I have an answer for you that comes right out of the book that claims to be the Authority. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage... says that all people will be judged fairly and based on their own deeds.
- Jeremy (cropmarks)
Melanie, not in my copy. God asks Adam where he is. He answers, rats out Eve, and then God makes them clothes (and takes away the snake's limbs?). The next chapter is about Cain and Abel.
- Eivind
Christopher, maybe I wasn't very clear: the concept of choice means that you and I and everyone else have the ability to be influenced for good or for bad.
- Melanie Reed
I think Christopher is assuming God precludes free will.
- Jeremy (cropmarks)
Elvind, yes, God asks, not to find out what He already knows, but to give Adam and Eve a chance to confess what they have done which is what you would do for someone you loved and respected.
- Melanie Reed
Yahweh: I'm going to make souls x, y, and z -- souls x and y will need to be tortured forever; I know this because I know how they will behave, because I know everything. But I'm going to create them anyway. In fact, the vast, vast majority of all the souls I create will "chose" to be burned in hell forever, but I'm OK with that, and will create them anyway. ...nice deity you got there.
- Christopher A Carr
Melanie, that's just projecting onto God what you would have done. It doesn't say anywhere that's why he did it?
- Eivind
Elvind, I don't think I would have handled it so well as God. ;) His response is in keeping with His character and nature. And the rest of scripture provides testimony .
- Melanie Reed
I guess that depends. Is there an absolute value for "right?" I'm going to say there is. I believe that Charles Manson was wrong for what he did. There's no gray area there. Now that I've established that there is an absolute value for "right," then it behooves me to investigate why.
- Jeremy (cropmarks)
Eivind, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to miss-spell your name.
- Melanie Reed
Hehe, almost every English speaker who sees it in writing makes that mistake :)
- Eivind
Lewis (C.S.) decided that he felt that "right" and "wrong" were hard-wired and not up to the whims of the individual. In doing that, he felt he had to investigate the ... Author, if you will of those immutable laws (along with gravity, et al). He then looked at the myriad of religious texts that claimed to be "the way" and finally settled on the bible. Christianity was just the end of his search for the reason for "right."
- Jeremy (cropmarks)
Nothing supernatural in the way of an "Author" is required to account for our preferences for some social behaviors over others. Foundationaly, we are a species of highly social primate. On top of that, moral and ethical mores evolve (in a memetic, cultural evolutionary sense) over time. ...Our species has been on this planet for 200,000 or so years. It seems rather odd to me that Yahweh only took an interest many thousands of years after the relatively recent emergence of agriculture.
- Christopher A Carr
Melanie has DMed me. Evidently she is "troubled" for me, and wants to know if I need her help. Arrogant? Sanctimonious? I don't even know what to call that. Amazing.
- Christopher A Carr
I assume practical tasks are out of the question?
- Eivind
Practical tasks? My house's gutters need replacing.
- Christopher A Carr
I'm afraid she would only offer to pray that they be miraculously fixed.
- Christopher A Carr
Why does that make you afraid? You're certainly brave enough to call out someone's private messages in a public forum; surely having someone pray for you wouldn't be that bad.
- Glen Mistletoe
Pretty sure Christopher didn't mean that kind of "afraid."
- Chieze Okoye
Wow! Apparently this thread had legs while I was out! I haven't read most of the comments, but I should perhaps interject something here that I should've been stated up front... my initial statement, though directed at Christians, can surely be applied to ANY religion, and indeed, to any belief system. (This would included, for example, political beliefs. Hint hint.) Jerks and...
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- Mark Jepsen
Said another way... when any individual or group starts telling you that God is on their side (instead of the other way around) it would be wise to gather your loved ones and any belongings you can carry, a find refuge as you prepare to see the worst that man is capable of.
- Mark Jepsen
Personally I direct All Prayer to "Oh Lord" which I find to include All passing Gods & deities excluding none. Besides that moment of suspension of disbelief this has sufficed for many years to satisfy. Now that I am older & have experienced the world this seems to be overdoing it on my part. All physic seems to stem from Man?? Where is God in the Sense plane? Mind Readers & Physics...
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- ThatDBD
Aikido on Saturday sucked. I fell poorly on the first throw and pulled something in my neck all the way down my side. Ouch. It's feeling ok today though. I should be good for class again Tuesday evening.
- Internet's Tad
We had a big Dojo holiday party last night. There was SOOOOOOOOO much good food and I ate a bunch of it and drank a bunch of wine too. :) Not gonna care too much if I put on a bit of weight after that. Will work it off this week with P90.
- Internet's Tad
Good job so far with the P90! You're gonna give RahRah some competition. :P
- imabonehead
LOL - I won't EVER be giving Rah any competition. He's hard core. I just want to get better fit so I can kick more ass in Aikido.
- Internet's Tad
Oh? Planning to give Steven Seagal some competition?? :P
- imabonehead
Aikido and p90? I think you're doing awesome. The hardest part for me is the diet, but I'm pretty sure you'll get that under control. Just don't try to force it all at once :)
- Rahsheen ™, Coach Rah
Aikido is pretty easy compared to P90! Well... not really, but I've got a LOT more experience with Aikido. P90 is slowly getting easier and it's already making my Aikido workouts easier.
- Internet's Tad
I have two essays coming out in this book, Contemporary American Women: Our Defining Passages. (Copies go out before end of year!) One is on becoming a librarian, the other is on dealing with hysterectomy at a young age.
is that that workout thing? how is that? my brother wants to do it too.and Congratulations!!! whoohooo!
- Anna Lynn M.
Yeah Anna Lynn - check out beachbody,com - it's totaly worth every penny! :) We're doing p90 which is for the not-so-fit. If your brother is really fit, he should go for p90x.
- Internet's Tad
I've been pondering nabbing this. Your enthusiasm is making it easier for me to decide. :D
- tinypants - Hagitha of FF
What I don't understand is why no one is talking about StumbleUpon. Nowhere do they tell their users that they are slipping in ads, but one out five pages smell an awful lot like payola. No where on the page does it say that company X is sponsoring that hit, they just try and pretend like it social content that's been recommended by people with similar interests. This seems a lot more deceptive to me than most conflicts of interest
- Davis Freeberg
Cool. Would be awesome if we could dynamically add them to a post based on tags :)
- Roberto Bonini
BTW - The best ones are behind the link. :)
- Louis Gray
I've gotten a free book before but I want to level up to "some sweet gadgets"!
- Rochelle
Awesome. But where is "writer is friends on FriendFeed"?
- DeWitt Clinton
DeWitt, I assume we could have made 20 of these. But Jeannine is too good to be free! She got Mad Scrilla for this work. :) I would have added advisory roles and social networking buds, real life buds, friends of a friend, blah blah blah.
- Louis Gray
Davis - there's an icon for sponsored links on the FF and IE toolbars that looks like a dollar sign (at least the last time I used it). Disclosure: I worked on the IE toolbar and put that feature in (to reach feature parity with the Firefox toolbar).
- Matt Mastracci
Louis, these are fabulous. Although, Full Disclosure: The FTC has no jurisdiction where I live :)
- Micah Wittman
BOSTON--Ty Braxton, 23, continues to hide his fun and fulfilling life from the full-time employees of Hale & Dorr, the Boston law firm for which he has temped since July.
- The Onion
"This is the 25th anniversary of the Bhopal gas disaster, an epic mess that started one night when a pesticide plant owned by the American chemical giant Union Carbide leaked a cloud of poisonous gas. Before the sun rose, almost 4,000 human beings capable of love and anguish sank to their knees and did not get up. Half a million more fell ill, many with severely damaged lungs and eyes. An additional 15,000 people have since died from the aftereffects, and 10 to 30 people are said to die every month from exposure to the hundreds of tons of toxic waste left over in the former factory. But amazingly, the site still has not been cleaned up, because Dow Chemical, which since acquired Union Carbide, refuses to accept any responsibility. The groundwater is contaminated; children of the survivors suffer from genetic abnormalities; and the victims have long since run out of their measly compensation and are begging on the streets."
- edythe
from Bookmarklet
"I love myself. I think I'm grand. I go to the movies and hold my own hand. I wrap my arms around my waist, and when I get fresh I slap my face." - The Original Narcissist.
- Eric Logan
Very pleased with my progress so far. I'll be totally thrilled for having stuck with this for a whole week.
- Internet's Tad
Hmmm... I have lost about 5 pounds - down from 215 to 210. Not all due to P90 - I was dieting for a week or so previous. Still, not too shabby!
- Internet's Tad
"A 45 rpm adapter (also 45 rpm record insert, or 45 rpm spindle adapter) is a small plastic insert that goes in the middle of a 45-rpm record so it will play on a turntable. The adapter could be a small solid circle that fits onto the bottom of the spindle (meaning only one 45 could be played at a time) or a larger adapter that fits over the entire spindle, permitting a stack of 45s to be played."
- Derrick
from Bookmarklet
On a related note - I managed to get through 1.5 hours of Aikido last night without needing more than a couple of quick water breaks! SO happy about that!
- Internet's Tad
I'm not nearly as sore today as I've been. I think that's partly due to Aikido though...
- Internet's Tad
from fftogo
We weren't allowed to watch it when it first came out. I was okay that because even in 5th grade, I thought of it as propaganda. Finally I watched it in college for a class and it was...amusing.
- Captain Bubbles
You can see it now you're all growed up!
- Mo Kargas
If you've lived in Los Angeles, at least one of your thoughts in seeing this is, "THAT'd sure clear up the morning traffic! Can you imagine how cleared up the 405 would be?"
- Ciaoenrico
i find this sped-up GIF actually scarier than the scene in T2. seems more surreal and horrific when the kids drop to the ground like they've had their marionette strings cut.
- Joe Silence is not dead
I agree. Marionette kids plopping to the ground, spooky. GREAT scene. Way more fun sped up.
- ‘-.-’ Tutivillus Grift
I've had recurrent nightmares about this scene. What really creeps me out is that it's STILL a possibility, with or without Skynet.
- Victor Ganata
What's weird is I am watching this gif animation while listening to Angels We Have Heard On High by Mannheim Steamroller. Gave it a whole new WTF meaning.
- Danny Minick
Don't forget to Duck & Cover: http://www.youtube.com/watch... "It may knock you down hard and break windows all over town." Thank God I got the "happy turtle" version of this when I was a kid. :P
- Ken Morley
It's Sarah Connors dream from T2. Marshall Im posted the video further up this thread
- Mo Kargas
And I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. Then the kings of the...
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- James Artre
Ah, ok, I thought it was from The Day After, which I wasn't allowed to see. I saw T2, I'm sure.
- MiniMage TKDteacher of FF
great energy... i d like to die that fast, painless; shortest way to death. haha
- Ümit Orhan
@Ümit I wouldn't say painless or short. Ask the Japanese after WWII
- Mo Kargas
I was allowed to see the Day After and that looked as if that screen capture came from that movie too, although a bit more "reddish" looking. I thought that movie was damn depressing.
- Helen Sventitsky
@Mo: it seems extremely fast. but you might be right, i am not sure and i havent asked this question to the japanese.
- Ümit Orhan
Very enlightening to talk to people who's parents or grandparents actually suffered a real nuclear attack
- Mo Kargas
If you're close enough to ground zero, it should be pretty quick and painless. But if you don't get instantly vaporized by the explosion, you get to die from burns, the brute force of the shock wave (which, if you're lucky, will snap your neck or cause you to impact against something solid), or radiation poisoning, which has got to be one of the slowest, most excruciating ways to die.
- Victor Ganata
i live close enuff for the quick & painless, :(
- chaz2b
Day 2 of P90 is DONE! Sweat 1-2 was tough, but mostly doable. The Abs Ripper part though was tough to figure out. I'm just not strong/flexible to do a few of those moves yet. Either way, I feel great right now!
Lindsay and I just completed day one of P90! (not P90x) We did the Sculpt 1-2 workout which totally kicked our asses. BUT - we did keep up (except for the pushups). I feel pretty confident that in a month or so we'll pretty much have conquered this workout.
Tomorrow, though, is cardio, and that's going to REALLY be the test. It may take 2 months to get good enough on that one to move forward.
- Internet's Tad
You need to start practicing your acceptance speech. :)
- Laura Lou Who
You rock! Do they make little foil stickers you can put on the book?
- royce kitts
OOH. I don't know, but I'm going to find out! That's an awesome idea, Satan. Laura - I'm supersuperstitious, so I'm going to pretend I've already lost. That way if I DO win or get mention, it'll be even awesome-er.
- ωαřмaiden, MFA'd poet
"In 1054, humans recorded sightings of the mega-star explosion that created the Crab Nebula. It was so bright it was visible to the naked eye. Now three space telescopes have together created a more complete picture of the debris. According to National Geographic: This new picture of the Crab Nebula combines data from the Chandra X-ray Observatory, the Hubble Space Telescope, and the Spitzer Space Telescope . . . Infrared light caught by Spitzer and visible light seen by Hubble paint the nebula's expanding debris cloud in shades of purple and red. Meanwhile, Chandra's x-ray vision is helping astronomers understand the high-energy particles (seen in blue) coming from the dead star's core, known as a white dwarf."
- RAPatton
from iPhone
"...this fun “info-graphic” on the Fox News, which explains how Sarah Palin’s supposedly strong 70% support from GOP idiots is still no match for Huckabee’s 63% support, or Romney’s 60%. What?"
- teh Dork Knight aka Kenny
from Bookmarklet
Mary Carmen: It's stuff like this that makes me want to hop into my closet and not come out until "It starts getting better".
- teh Dork Knight aka Kenny
And when those viewers use it in an argument they have de facto lost the argument straightaway. After health care reform I think it is time for education reform.
- Rene Wirtz
The graphic is stupid, but if the question didn't require only one choice the numbers could be accurate.
- Bren, Not Grinchy
from iPhone
Presumably there were separate questions for the three candidates, but that's not the way it's presented by Fox.
- John (a.k.a. dendroica)
The bigger, scarier takeaway is that 70% support that numbskull Palin.
- Bren, Not Grinchy
from iPhone
Right, John. Fox does a bad job of presenting the results of the poll, and some people jump on that as the major issue. I hope people focus more on what the results mean: that among conservatives polled, Palin--really? Palin?-- has the highest level of support.
- Bren, Not Grinchy
from iPhone
Bren... great point: Palin is the frontrunner amongst voters who care very little about basic truths: like pie charts adding up to 100%. But then, it kind of makes sense: Palin can see Russia from her porch, that's gotta be true. You betcha. .LOLz!
- .LAG liked that
Lag: I doubt the people polled saw the stupid pie chart in advance. :)
- Bren, Not Grinchy
from iPhone
Bren ...no doubt, but if they're putting Palin at the top of their list, it probably wouldn't matter if they saw the chart anyway. you can't reason with "crazy." .LOLz!
- .LAG liked that
I'm going to have to give this thread 3 #TGOR s in a "z" formation: one for Fox's idiotic presentation; one for the people who think Palin is qualified to be president; and one for anyone who reads those numbers and can't (or refuse to) conceive of a way they are correct
- Bren, Not Grinchy
from iPhone