Laura Scott (@lauras) › Comments

Laura Scott (@lauras)
A full reference. Clean and wow. - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Dave Winer
Serious question -- why doesn't Google use the FriendFeed API for Buzz? Hopefully it's an open standard, if not, what would it take to make it one. Can't imagine the FF guys would object. It's a VERY nice API. Imho.
Because of Facebook? - RobertoC
I'm a big believer in using stuff that already works because it preserves developers' and users' investments. In this case, the lack of an accepted API means there are no clients that sort out the app in terms familiar to users. That hinders adoption. - Dave Winer
Agree completely Dave. It would be very very nice. - Roberto Bonini
FB Lawsuits? - sofarsoShawn
Roberto -- that's what would make it an open standard. Competitors are *supposed* to use the same formats and protocols if they care about users. Further, the second into the market, ie Google in this case, has everything to gain by being compatible with an existing product, and nothing to lose (other than the ability to say they invented the whole thing, which they clearly didn't). - Dave Winer
Why didn't Google <a href="">make Buzz into protocol so we could finally move into a P2P twitter-like paradigm</a>? - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Facebook. - AJ Batac
The NY Times and the WSJ and Washington Post all use HTML. - Dave Winer
I doubt Facebook would let them do that. - Kent
I doubt Facebook has any say in it. - Dave Winer
The FF API doesn't exactly fit PSHB though you could probably adapt it. I'm pretty sure Google started from the proposition Buzz would use PSHB. - Ed Millard
I agrre with you Dave, it would be great and everyone, also little startup gain from it. BUT have the company so big a so opened mentality? I doubt of it. - RobertoC
From FF API TOS: 4. Intellectual Property (Trademarks & Copyrights) FriendFeed, the FriendFeed logo and the FriendFeed design are trademarks or trade dress of FriendFeed, and may not be used without express written permission from FriendFeed, other than for attribution. ... FriendFeed-originated content included on the Site, such as text, graphics, logos, software and the compilation of... more... - Ed Millard
Google explains itself sort of in this Newsweek post "Why Google Will Keep Playing Fast and Loose With Your Privacy - they seem to fear a Russian prodigy who will win out" They thought they'd hit a gold mine with Buzz's format rather than using FF's (I'm hazarding). They had an itchy trigger finger and pulled it too soon and aimed wayyy off target. Simple as explanation really, they just thought they had something better. - sofarsoShawn
We may not have the power to make them do it, but we certainly have the power to put the question out there. - Dave Winer
From the FF TOS it appears FB can block Google from using it. - Ed Millard
Ed -- are you saying the quoted TOS segment covers the API implicitly? -- I don't see anything explicit there. - Brian Sullivan
If the API falls under "FriendFeed design" or "copyright" I think it is explicit. "design" is subject to interpretation, here it is maybe referring to web site design. The section about "FriendFeed-originated content" including "software" being copyright would almost certainly cover the API. Would probably have problems creating an API doc for it without violating copyright. - Ed Millard
To safely use the API you would almost certainly need to find legally binding licensing saying FF/FB placed it in the public domain. They did, I think, open source Tornado which is the Python HTTP engine, but that isn't really the actual API. Tornado is the part that directly overlaps with PSHB anyway so doubt Google is interested in it. - Ed Millard
DeWitt mentioned they didn't clone Twitter because of unclear licensing issues. When they are trying to release a product I'm sure they want to get the product out rather than block on licensing issues, which take pretty much forever to work out. - Todd Hoff
If FF hadn't been bought by FB, I'm sure they could have some to some sort of arrqangement. But the fundamental benefit of using an existing API is that any apps can immediately move to the new platform. - Roberto Bonini
And i think that "FriendFeed design" includes the API - Roberto Bonini
Roberto, not so sure since "design" is followed by "trademark and trade dress" which would only apply to visual and marketing elements. The copyright stuff further down is what nails the API. - Ed Millard
I wonder if Paul or Bret could chime in here. In either case, I'm betting that they'll have to defer to Zuckerberg. - Roberto Bonini
Its regrettable Google didn't buy FF instead of FB. If they were working on Buzz back then its obviously an acquisition that would have been of greater value to Google than FB. The FF talent seems to be the only thing FB got out of it. - Ed Millard
Oh definitely Ed. In fact, they could have put FF into Gmail without a whole lot of bother. - Roberto Bonini
Isn't what they are already doing in Buzz better? since they are using standards like Atom, Activity Streams, PubSubHubbub, oAuth etc. - Richard Cunningham
Richard, Buzz doesn't really have an API yet. Only has a really limited function to get public messages per user, a directory to get profiles and WebFinger support to get info off profiles. The actual API is apparently still a month or a few months from being available. Some have been hacking it to pry stuff out of it but its not really friendly to third party apps yet. I wish it had an API. I'd integrate it in to my feed reader cuz I can't stand Buzz prioritization and no comment collapse. - Ed Millard
Using all those open standards is commendable but I'm not sure its an easy path from those to a coherent design and API. You can see Paul's influence in the FF API, its really simple and elegant. It is way ahead of where Buzz is at the moment for third party access though hopefully google will get a real API out soon. - Ed Millard
Here is all Google has out for their API at the moment, - Ed Millard
Ed, yes I know, I'm working on implementing it in FriendBinder, the main bit missing for me is the friend's list working properly and next would be some sort of write support - Richard Cunningham
My issue with PSHB is I don't want to have a web server sitting between Buzz and my client. PSHB seems to require a client to register and then you need a server URL for PSHB to call back. Seems to exclude clients from accessing Buzz unless they go through a server intermediary which is different than every other API I've used. With the FF API any client can connect to a server and get a stream, way simpler. Hopefully Google will add something like REST or Tornado in their official API. - Ed Millard
Ed, how about appending the events from PSHB to your own queue and then using a REST API to access it? The server-to-server nature of PSHB is inconvenient. - Todd Hoff
Todd, that requires me to field a PSHB hub of my own, or am I misunderstanding? Kind of a high bar for a client app to have to field a 24/7 server or you can't get to the Buzz stream. I'll just hope Google provides a real API for clients in coming months. The FF API/Tornado, and Twitter REST/Streaming API's are infinitely more client friendly, though Twitter obviously has the scaling problems PSHB is designed to address. - Ed Millard
Not sure what you mean by 'using FriendFeed API'. Do you mean reproduce a similar API, or connect to it? Both are efforts that need some developper time, and Google was in a hurry to prove that they could deliver a decent service. In the first case, it seems hard to copy one interface and make it suit a different social construct, harder than make a interface adapted to that social... more... - Bertil Hatt
Ed, I expect they will give a feed with all your friends in one feed, when they turn on oAuth. Then it will be the equivalent to what Twitter offer. - Richard Cunningham
Louis Gray had it decreed forbidden. - sofarsoShawn from iPhone
Alright now, Shawn. Troublemaker. :) - Louis Gray
Well sort of Ed. I was imagining Google App Engine as a queue endpoint for published events. - Todd Hoff
Ah, that's interesting to consider, I'll look in to that. Don't actually want to do REST, it sucks for real-time. Would rather have an open connection like Tornado, which brings us back to where Dave started this conversation about how nice it would be to have the FF API on Buzz :) - Ed Millard
Though the down side to FF/Tornado is you have to keep doing new HTTP requests since it closes the connection after it delivers data, and its not entirely clear how real-time the data actually is. Something like the new Twitter streaming API would be ideal where you just have an open connection and your stream arrives as close to real-time as is feasible. - Ed Millard
Robert Scoble
A new way to tell whether a web service has gone mainstream or not:
If Scobleizer is at the top of most popular list for the service, the web service has NOT gone mainstream yet. For instance, a year ago I was at top of Twitter. Today, no. But today I'm at the top of FriendFeed. When I get passed you will know this has gone mainstream. Compare Twitter's popular: with FriendFeed's - Robert Scoble
You are way ahead of Kim Kardashian on here. Congrats. - Ben Hanten
I say when porn starts move to a service, it becomes mainstream. Same happened to Twitter, streaming videos and so on. - Veetrag
Yes, Twitter gamed this list by doing a suggested user list (@techcrunch had fewer followers than I did before they did this list and didn't put me on it) but lots of these people would have passed me anyway like @oprah -- so, this is how you can check if a service has gone mainstream. - Robert Scoble
I thought it was when a Hollywood celeb claimed he or she was responsible for the societal adoption - Keith Barrett
Seems reaonable - David Damore
It is interesting, though, that popularity over on Twitter hasn't passed over to popularity on FriendFeed. Most followers that come from "mainstream" won't try new things. - Robert Scoble
Mark: I expect it. The real measure, by the way, is NOT follower counts, which is why these lists aren't very good, but engagement. Do people click favorite, retweet, like, comment, do things because of the content you are making and the things you are putting into the system. That's the real measure of popularity that I wish sites like ffholic would track. - Robert Scoble
@Oprah doesn't follow back, so she's not as much fun as you are. - RobinDotNet
+ Robert! - Myrna
Robin: that's not why I'm more fun. I'll actually comment back. :-) - Robert Scoble
Ah, the John Lennon test. ("The Beatles are bigger than Jesus.") ??? (not meant to be as snarky as it sounds) - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Robert -- EXACTLY! Oprah's just using it to broadcast stuff, and not often at that. Zzzzzzz. - RobinDotNet
Robin: I hate the idea that being followed is what makes you important. I wish that those numbers wouldn't be published in public. I'd far prefer seeing an "interaction" number. That would still show popularity (after all, if 20 people are following me, and 10 are following you, and we interact the same, I would still have twice the number of you). Actually, I wonder how you could measure that? - Robert Scoble
One of the things that bugs me about Twitter is that they refer to those you follow as your "friends". I actually don't like the term followers either. I don't "follow" @aplusk nor am I his friend. I read his tweets because once in a while he says something interesting. I do have friends on Twitter, but most of the people I read have never corresponded with me and they do not read my... more... - Paul The Raven
Paul: Exactly. I made a "get satisfaction" request of Twitter a year ago to allow us to create categories of people, so I could distinguish my real friends from people I just follow. It got some support, but was never done. One of the many ways Friendfeed is better. - Keith Barrett
@Keith Barrett The beauty of Twitter is its simple model, complicate like you are suggesting and it will implode. There are plenty of apps that provide those functions, like Tweetdeck, Seesmic - use them if you wish to break out into categories. - Amy Flynn
Robert! I love your new new measuring tool! I am going to ask every service I encounter what their "Scoble Number" is and if they can't provide me one, I'm walking!! ;-) I'll take it a step further, I think all blogs should have a Scoble Number we can display, the number of visits and reads from Scoble! The Scoble System... it's plan and it's doable! You on it? - Amy Flynn
Amy: heh. That is taking things too far. - Robert Scoble
What's the "Scoble Number" on MySpace ... I hear it's the next big thing. ;) - Paul Holmes
Robert Scoble
Apple Has The Best Tech Support, Dell, HP, Acer Have The Worst [Survey Says] -
From linked article: "Dell was the worst. Their Phllippinian representative "did not understand the meaning of a "power scheme." A second call to Asia was "full of static and hissing." The representative's "hard-to-understand accent made communication even more difficult." By contrast, a call to Apple was promptly answered by a helpful unicorn, who, after quickly answering their questions, sent them a free chocolate cake for their troubles. Or something like that." HaHa! - Dale
My dad was just telling me about his experience with Dell recently, and he even paid extra to get the 24 hour on-site support. They refused to help him, continually blaming the issue on AOL Instant Messenger for something as simple as a webcam problem. Funny thing is I still can't convince him to get a Mac. :-) Darn Windows users... - Jesse Stay
Dell tech support was kick-butt in the 1990s, back when Dells cost 2X everyone else's stuff. I used to recommend the $99 service packages. But starting 2003-04 with some really bad experiences where I had to bug Dell-corporate-higher-ups to get service, I now don't recommend Dell to anyone except cheap-skates (definitely not to any corporations). Don't know which year Dell decided to lobotomize their customer service. Does anyone know? - Mitchell Tsai
Dell has great support on their site. You can, with a little searching, find about any info you need. As a rule, I don't call support lines; only as a last resort. I prefer a more hands-on approach and really enjoy fixing most problems myself. Warranty support is a whole 'nother animal. I better be able to understand and communicate with the tech on the other end or..well, it's email time and time to post about it. - Dale
Dale, unfortunately you're not the average Dell user, which doesn't know what to look for to fix their problem. - Jesse Stay
Dale - Only time I call Dell tech support is for real-life hardware issues (e.g. non-working laptop screen). And since 2003 it has sucked... I don't want to spend 10 hrs on the phone rechecking all the stuff I've already checked, when all I need is a 90 sec visit. Once it took 9 months, 15 hrs, talking to corporate, etc..., and the in-person visit was probably <60 sec. - Mitchell Tsai
You are paying for the support when you buy an Apple product. Their margins would be higher than Dell, HP etc. - Matt G
If only the support were anywhere as good as it used to be. Apple support is really inconsistent. - Spidra Webster
Lindsey, I used to do Gateway tech support in Houston, TX. I used to do support for Microsoft Bob of all operating systems! I admit back then I knew absolutely nothing, yet somehow people turned to me to fix their problems. - Jesse Stay
With 30 to 50 percent profit margins I would have better support too. Plus, when you have 12 customers as opposed to 12000, the game changes. It should be the other way around, but competition is fierce in the PC market. When you are 'boutique', things can be different. - Paul Puri
Let's face it, service everywhere has degraded. I've heard horror stories about all of them. I just heard about this cracking case issue earlier this evening. Not sure what to think about does seem like a widespread problem. I bet Apple is sweating a big recall. They won't admit it's their fault and at least one of the complaints I read Apple blamed the customer. This could get real sticky, real fast. - Dale
agreed - Thomas Power
The fact that you can bring your Apple into the Genius Bar trumps any sort of phone offering other PC makers can provide in my opinion. Something about being able to see what's going on in person feels much more reassuring. - Thomas Hawk
This is a joke, right? Of course, comparing support with Dell can make Apple seem to glow with angelic concern for the customer. But for all of the care Apple puts into usability of their products, they don't seem to care much about the experience of customers once they own the products. Even the Genius Bar has become a checklist experience, with constant referrals to scripted... more... - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Having personally worked escalations from a technical support role here at Dell, I can assure you that quality of service *is* taken very seriously. All feedback, both negative and positive, is routinely reviewed by management in order to ensure proper troubleshooting steps are in place to assist. Dell continues to listen to the voice of our customers, and we are completely focused on... more... - Chris Byrd
Robert Scoble
Why FriendFeed's designer, Kevin Fox, is to blame for FriendFeed being too difficult to use: he f**ks with affordances. (UPDATE: he answers me toward the end of the comments with a GREAT set of answers).
August 9, 2009 - Comments disabled - Share
Affordances. They are important. What does that mean? A door knob "affords" being turned. It almost demands it. Yet FriendFeed is screwing with things like links. Here, click on "hide." That should just hide one item, right? That's the affordance. Yet you'll soon find there's a whole world stuck under that little link. You can hide Tweets. You can hide me. You can hide all sorts of stuff. - Robert Scoble
Is it difficult to use? - Manuel Mas
Hmm.. is it difficult to use?! - Orli Yakuel
It's a peace of cake - Mark
i heard larry wall once say about perl "make simple things simple, and hard things possible"... the simple things are definitely *not* simple in ff, increasing the learning curve right at the start... i rekon if they fix that... they have it made! :) - simran
Ooooo. One does not often see Robert swear. He's really worked up about it. Care to respond Kevin?? - Roberto Bonini from iPhone
#2 Look at the time stamp. Did you know that's also a link? Where's the affordance? Not there. Yet did you know you can click that and that is your permalink? Many people have trouble figuring this out. But here's an ultra affordance killer. Did you know you can click it twice and get a popout menu? Not many people do. Kevin has overloaded links with too many features and he has broken the affordances of what links usually do. - Robert Scoble
Orli: actually, yes, it's difficult to use. - Robert Scoble
Scoble: You may be right now that I read what you had to say. I don't think there is a proper FAQ/guide for all the little details hidden in FF. - Manuel Mas
And noses were designed to support eye glasses. - Todd Hoff
well I just managed to wipe out my entire friend feed account when I was trying to add a new one for a different twitter account - NW Angel
I agree - too many possible results from a given action. Manuel, no one reads FAQs and if you need to, the app is DOA - Sameer
Well, I don't see it as difficult to use. Its more that there are many things in here hidden that would aid users if there were more upfront. - Manuel Mas
Most of us get basic functionality out of the site with how things are at the moment. - Manuel Mas
Look at this complaint too about FriendFeed being difficult to figure out: Seth Goldstein runs a tech company. He's a geek. Adverse to more pain than a lot of us. Yet he can't figure out how to delete a list. He's not the only one to tell me that FriendFeed is too difficult to figure out. FriendFeed still needs a design rethink to make these issues go away. - Robert Scoble
Sameer: Agree. - Manuel Mas
Valid points, Robert, but a complex interface, once learned, becomes simple, too - although that's not the best design philosophy for a massively public website. - Aaman (Clone of FF)
Its the visual impact of seeing too many options even if you dont use them. V. overwhelming for the try and buy new comer - Sameer
I think it is one of the worst UIs on the web today. Which is why I hardly use it. It violates all the rules of good design. Stuff is not obvious, it is not easy and it is not even quickly learn-able. I've spent years in product management and really, this is one of the worst. - Shripriya
I think the issue here is Discoverability. There are a lot of little hidden secrets to FriendFeed that become obvious only after you've figured them out. They're not very obvious on their own. Personally, it doesn't bother me but that's because I know it. If I were a new user, I'd be at a loss as well. It seems to me that the primary design goal at FriendFeed is a minimal UI (perhaps at all costs). - Akiva
Roberto: I can't think of another web app that messes with link affordances the way that FriendFeed does. Can you think of one? - Robert Scoble
People who figure out how to use a system are often the last ones to recognize how difficult it is to use. It's a self selection thing. - Ken Sheppardson
But affordances are subjective and reliant on the end-user. Take the @ sign or hashtags for instance. Unless you're talking about Apple, it's hard to blame a designer for affordance rule enforcement. - Sam Harrelson
There is a balance with "affordances" though -- if you have a very complex set of features you could have a knob/button/link for every feature but that would not work either - Brian Sullivan
@Robert, do you think FF need More Icon? - abdellah
Sam: we've all clicked on hundreds of thousands of links. We all have an idea of what happens when you click a link. - Robert Scoble
Sam, the @sign in Twitter was emergent - something users created. - Sameer
Sure, but I've seen lots of platforms use the date function as a permalink enabler. - Sam Harrelson
Manuel, agree. Robert, I wouldn't say it's difficult, but confusing (or useless sometimes). I'm not sure it's a design problem though. - Orli Yakuel
abellah: an icon is probably better than a link, yes. I know that Kevin (from an interview I did with him more than a year ago) likes sparse UIs. He is of the school that you just watch where people trip over themselves and then build UI for that. I think that's smart, but I wish that FriendFeed would iterate its UI faster to pave paths where people are having troubles. - Robert Scoble
Robert, sorry, but you're late on this trend too :) First, being not to follow everyone on Twitter. FF ui has always been terrible. Most tech people I know don't understand how to use it. And I think I use less than 10% of the available features. - Shripriya
I like FriendFeed as it is. It's obviously a power users tool as is, but then I wouldn't want it stupid simple reminiscent of installing a Windows OS. There just needs to be a decent screencast on the home page explaining all the features. No one reads FAQs these days. Video Game designers just turn the first level into a tutorial for 99% who won't read the manual and I don't mind. Maybe FF needs a tutorial when you first sign up? - CannonGod
Think about the affordances of FF and compare them with Twitter. Then compare the relative effectiveness of desktop / mobile applications developed for both. There is not a one good app for FriendFeed. This is because of the MANY "extra shite" links and an overly complex API, not because of popularity differences in the services. - Michael Owens from iPhone
Holy shit this item is already in Google: -- Google is going real time! - Robert Scoble
Great designs shouldn't need tutorials. - Manuel Mas
@Sameer right, but we created the @ sign to do a certain feature. Folks on have their own signifiers. That will inevitably happen here as well as folks grow comfortable with this platform. - Sam Harrelson
Shripriya - I think most people who come back dont find it confusion. Its the first timers that run away - and thats FFs biggest problem. - Sameer
Needless to say, we all love Friendfeed, but we also need a Greasemonkey script to learn which service was posting into the time-line, and the entire issue of groups/rooms really needs a rethink because it's so hard to find any, especially If you're a newcomer.. - Nir Ben Yona
Engagement is deep; Adoption is sparce. - Sameer
TV ads (at least in australia) are considered misleading if "a person of slightly less than average intelligence" misinterprets them... i think you will find that it takes "smart techies" a while to figure out the nuances of ff, not saying everything should be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, but the defaults that way would give everyone a great start... especially when introducing innovative stuff (like "the live web") :) - simran
Scoble: That Google real time thing is even more impressive than this discussion! - Manuel Mas
Shripriya: I've been complaining about this stuff both in public and in private for a long time. And I wasn't behind in following everyone on Twitter. Come and study how I use FriendFeed to follow small groups of people closely, especially for Twitter. - Robert Scoble
Manuel - Yes. I like to say that if you need to write a manual for your product, it's too complicated. - Jeff Harbert
Wow, this did get into Google fast. - phil baumann
Robert: Holy shit, that's impressive - - sod Twitter I say, if you're in marketing then you need to get on FriendFeed for instant Google indexing of a subject! - CannonGod
@Manuel there will be always a need to manual and tutorial, people have to sell or to promote so event if you have to explain a basic evidence, write a document make it in pdf format, sell it or share it, but for the sake of simplicity please never ever do FB style document. - abdellah
UI design is a very difficult thing to do because so many people have different ways they use things. However, I do agree with you Robert that FF does need a redesign to make more of the feature more user-intuitive. - Jack Wilson, K4SAC
Sameer - I've been back many times, I still barely use it. All the stuff Robert mentions, I had no clue. And its not worth my the time investment. - Shripriya
i would expect to see the tweet before this one.. - Orli Yakuel
Robert - the twitter thing (ie. unsubscribing and not following everyone) was a bit of a joke. But on FF, you are the biggest proponent. If you can't get them to change, no one can. - Shripriya
Agree Sam, but Twitter nor expose a gazillion features in the core app.. Its about managing the "first impression is the lasting impression" thing - Sameer
Here's the interview I did with Kevin last year: Shripriya: yeah, I keep hearing that from other people I try to evangelize FriendFeed to. One guy, who is a tech advisor to celebrities in Hollywood told me they will never use it because it's too hard to figure out and because there aren't good mobile clients for it, like there are for Twitter. - Robert Scoble
Jake - :) - phil baumann
@Sameer That's true for a certain demographic, but I look at sites my 8th graders frequent often and I have no idea how they put up with the features. Or take an xBox 360 controller... lots of buttons that do way too many things for my old 30 year-old mind, but my students find it intuitive. - Sam Harrelson - 18 months ago you said their UI was brilliant :) - Mark
Shripriya- thats ok. Plenty of people I personally know that have signed up for Twitter and never come back because they couldn't find a use case. No app is for everyone. Its about appealing to a large number of folks that see relevance. - Sameer
Wow, not only is this indexed in Google, but the Likes are getting indexed as well. Don't see the comments indexed yet, tho. - Sam Harrelson
Maybe FF will always be the power aggregation tool online that only a few use. But is the "few" large enough? I wonder. - Shripriya
47 emails in my gmail inbox already from this thread (as i commented and said follow updates on twitter)... surely they can batch them at least by the minute... after all... email isn't realtime :) - simran
Search results for "I don't get FriendFeed" - - phil baumann
Mark: you took me out of context. I said it both sucks AND is brilliant. That is true. Even today. - Robert Scoble
@Robert, can I add that UI is so clean that functionality are just a part of the design, they need to make more light on them (hey they are all blue link the same sized blue link) :) - abdellah
The missing mobile client certainly is a downer. I love a lot about FriendFeed, but lack of a *good* mobile client, and other minor annoyances may keep me from staying here. Sure I know I will come back from time to time (and I haven't left yet), but not sure I can live here on a daily basis like I can with Twitter because of the great clients for my desktop and phone, like TweetDeck. - Timothy Federwitz
Sam, the feature laden apps you mention that your students use, have intent built in them. The purpose is known before you came. XBox = don't do homework. Hell, Id learn how to use very button too :) - Sameer
I think FF is a different beast altogether and not as easy to create a mobile app for, based solely on service functionality and what we actually do here. - Manuel Mas
Tim: that's why I like the IM integration wtih GTalk. Gets around the site UI and works great on the mobile as well. - Sam Harrelson from IM
Scoble: I think this was a pretty rude way of giving your feedback. Why are you being so provocative lately? - Eric Florenzano from iPhone
difficult for who? the basics are easy....getting the most out of all the tools available is a different story but at least the tools are there. Not so in twitter - Craig Shipp
Sameer: Yep, good point. Similarly, I see FriendFeed having a very useful apparatus in my work/personal flow as a news/twitter/info client. I mostly use it via IM but also find the site pretty intuitive for how I use it and prefer it over Twitter, etc. - Sam Harrelson from IM
Eric: because no one engages unless you make a strong point and I sure wish Kevin would fix this stuff so I can evangelize FriendFeed better. - Robert Scoble
Craig: I have shown FriendFeed to many hundreds of people over the past year and I keep getting this complaint over and over. - Robert Scoble
I disagree with that approach Robert. A strong point is not always necessary. Most times it's a turn off and sets the wrong tone. Sure you get a lively discussion, but half of it is trying to explain you're not reallllly upset about it. - Bwana ☠
It's fine to complain but I don't see any useful suggestions here from Robert or any other commenters. A problem without a proposed solution is essentially a whine. - Brian Sullivan
Bwana: we've been complaining about these issues for more than a year. And I am upset about it. It keeps me from having a good time evangelizing FriendFeed. Just search here for how many people don't get FriendFeed. And those are the ones who'll tell you in public. - Robert Scoble
Just reading this, I have learned 4 things I DID NOT KNOW about friendfeed functionality. - Liza + = ?
Back again, to say FF still isn't cool! - K.N. Ajit Narayan
Robert: I couldn't disagree more. Please don't fall into that Arrington/Loren Feldman trap. People engage in a more constructive way when the topic is interesting. Just look at Leo's shows for proof that I'm right. - Eric Florenzano from iPhone
I didn't say this wasn't a case for a strong point, I'm simply stating it's not always necessary per your statement "no one engages unless you make a strong point" - Bwana ☠
Liza: that's another reason I did it in a strong way. I knew it would get engagement. WHen you get engagement your item gets spread to more and more people and that helps out the community overall. - Robert Scoble
Timestamp? Click, double click? Permalink? I wish I knew all of this before. - Liza + = ?
Ultimately the best thing to happen to FriendFeed would be the mass proliferation of 3rd party apps that offer a better user experience overall. Let the market sort out best functional IxD. How many highly active Twitter users use regularly? Not many, because there are several Twitter apps that afford a more active Twitter experience. Without them, Twitter would be news from 2006. - Laura Scott (@lauras)
I disagree. I came here because I agree with the point (as I stated in another thread), not because of the strongness. You may attract certain types with that, but not moi. - Bwana ☠
The best level of engagement that I've seen regarding Leo Laporte is when Arrington called him out openly and there was the big fuss of him getting thrown off the show. Just saying. - Michael Owens from iPhone
I also show twitter and friendfeed to a lot of new Internet users and they get confused easily. I think the only solution is to show one simple process and then after they master that for a week or so then show them another feature. - Craig Shipp
Eric: OK, heard and understood. But name another designer who does stuff with links that Kevin does. That needs to be pointed out strongly, I think. But then I get crazy about design, especially when people keep telling me over and over that FriendFeed is too hard to use and figure out. Even Liza, who has been here a lot, didn't know all that stuff was "hidden" under the affordance of the link. - Robert Scoble
Robert - I appreciate your sharing this info, but it feels strange that all of this seems like a secret. Intention is bizarre. - Liza + = ?
So Robert, do you really think Kevin and FF are actively ignoring this issue? - Bwana ☠
Bwana: yes. Why? Because it's been like this for 18 months. - Robert Scoble
As a user, I do feel like it is intentionally hidden. - Liza + = ?
Interesting - Bwana ☠
It isn't about ignoring. It's about continuance. These affordances have been here since FF started. - Michael Owens from iPhone
Michael: and they f**k with the affordances that everyone has learned on EVERY OTHER WEB SITE. This is why I used strong language. - Robert Scoble
Oh, and the "new ui" upgrade that happened a while back did nothing but add to the hidden complexity - Michael Owens from iPhone
Robert, The UI's difficulty is best expressed in comment threads with a huge number of comments, such as yours - - Aaman (Clone of FF)
And I am tech savvy, not an idiot, but the argument is, oh, you just aren't enough of a techie to get it. - Liza + = ?
I think the beauty of friendfeed is the fact that it can be used as a very basic tool but also has the power to do much more in the right hands - Craig Shipp
Who are the right hands? - Liza + = ?
And once these get fixed, the real thing that people can't figure out is what is new. On every other website there's an affordance for that. Even in SimplyTweet new Tweets are green. Quick, figure out what is new here that you haven't seen from the last time you were here. You can't. - Robert Scoble
Robert speaks truth. - Bwana ☠
Craig: That's the biggest copout I've ever heard. Maybe Kevin needs to go bak and read "Don't Make Me Think" by Steve Krug. - Michael Owens from iPhone
Liza: people like me who click on everything looking for secret features. :-) - Robert Scoble
Don't Make Me Think ( by Steve Krug may be the kind of design you are looking for. - Todd Hoff
@Todd: great minds think alike - Michael Owens from iPhone
Robert: but even uses the date affordance as a permalink. I understand the concerns about the mass of feature clarity here, but I don't see that particular date/link function as a standard bearer. - Sam Harrelson from IM
Scoble: OK point taken. So let's make this constructive: what should they do to fix it? For the timestamp, my suggestion is to make it bluer and underlined--which everyone associates with links. Do you agree? How can they fix the hide functionality, though? I'm struggling to think of a way. - Eric Florenzano from iPhone
Liza: I found a lot of bugs in WIndows 95 by unplugging my mouse and trying to use the entire UI via the keyboard. But then I'm weird. Most people will never try anything. In fact, Google's own research shows that fewer than 1% will click on "advanced search." These weird affordances are even harder than THAT to figure out. - Robert Scoble
So if this doesn't change, FF may not get as wide of an adoption that it deserves. Hide, permalinks, and little things make a huge difference. The technology is too good for this to be its downfall. - Bwana ☠
Not having older items shaded or otherwise marked as old does effectively contribute to noise. - phil baumann
I'm not saying friendfeed can't be made better. I'm just saying it can be used from a basic level with little training. - Craig Shipp
I was accused of working for Friendfeed at an event 2 nights ago, for being an evangelist, and I still know very little about the functionality. AND I do like to think, I do click on a lot, but I also appreciate the intention of inclusion. - Liza + = ?
Eric: I would NOT put two hidden features under one link. They need a tab of "customizations and secret features" and put all that stuff there. - Robert Scoble
I'm not sure it's ever going to change at this point... which is sad - Bwana ☠
Liza: everyone knows I'm so excited about FriendFeed that they whine when I don't bring it up. Seriously. It's funny. - Robert Scoble
Whoops sorry Michael, didn't see yours. But it is a good book. Affordances is a bit abstract. He does a good job making the idea concrete. - Todd Hoff
what social site is better? - Craig Shipp
Twitter made a big improvement with contextual menu, such may add a value in FF too. - abdellah
Craig: define better. Twitter is easier. Facebook has more hooks and more users. - Robert Scoble
Which social site has the better UI? - Bwana ☠
Bwana: which is why I used strong language. - Robert Scoble
Until FB and twitter update in real time they aren't even in the game as far as I'm concerned - Craig Shipp
Robert: Twitter has the best UI? - K.N. Ajit Narayan
better UI!! ask myspace ugly by purpose. - abdellah
The problem is w/o knowing the affordances, Newbies create too much noise, feel embarassed and retreat - felt that but did not retreat - Liza + = ?
Facebook used to have a great UI imho. It's changed so much, now I can't find anything - Bwana ☠
FF has the better UI would be my guess. But better is such a subjective word. - Brian Sullivan
K.N. define "best." It's certainly easier to understand than FriendFeed is. Especially if you use a great client like SimplyTweet on my iPhone or Seesmic on my desktop. - Robert Scoble
Scoble: I'm not sure about the tab idea. It would add a lot of visual load on ever pageview. Instead, I'm thinking maybe if hide was a hover dropdown. When you hover over it, it says "Hide just this item", and "Hide all items like these" so that you know what you're getting into. This could work just like the top subnavigation items in many websites, which people are familiar with. Thoughts? - Eric Florenzano
Agree Twitter's UI is great - was in a studygroup of power users - most of us use web interface with multiple browsers rather than Tweetdeck, b/c simplicity is preferred. - Liza + = ?
Eric: this is why I'm not a UI designer. I like your solution better. - Robert Scoble
Hover is an evil thing in a real-time interface - Bwana ☠
I may repeat it but contextuel menu, yes do it well, that all , FF have to do that , twitter have done it. - abdellah
i hate chasing links - Bwana ☠
Bwana: Ahh yeah, good point. Maybe it would have to pause realtime (considering you are actually doing an action) - Eric Florenzano
Robert: Was talking about Twitter, the site...It's really easy to work with, provided you are not following too many people.. - K.N. Ajit Narayan
On FF you can type in the box and hit enter. How difficult is that? - Craig Shipp
Yeah Eric, it would have to - Bwana ☠
Even this thread is hard to read. No ability to specifically reply etc. Another reason I rarely visit. - Shripriya
FF used to pause real time whenever you your cursor was over a posting or its comments-- somehow that feature got removed. - Brian Sullivan
Shripiya: This conversation will definitely stink unless you find the hidden permalink - Bwana ☠
lisa, that's one thing and four words :) - Craig Shipp
Which supports Robert's argument - Bwana ☠
I don't know if I will be able to handle a better FF - Craig Shipp
I went to grab a glass of water, and have no clue what is going on now - see what I mean? - Liza + = ?
@Craig Oh for sure you can remember the alpha version and when beta come. - abdellah
Maybe using IM is best, don't know, but, for now, I find it labor intensive vs. Twitter. I like BOTH, and I will continue to use BOTH, but that does not mean there are not simple fixes to improve the UI. - Liza + = ?
@liza no you know for sure what is going on , you know that this thread is about "....", you remmeber what you have said before, you remember the person for whome you talked so for sure you know were you are at the discussion. - abdellah
It would be nice to see some of the FF team on this discussion, Kevin Fox in particular. - phil baumann
I want to reply to indiv comments, it is impossible unless I say @robert or HEY BWANA, that is silly, crappy design. Am I missing something? Plus, everyone calls me LISA not LIZA, so I can hardly answer the questions directed at me without looking for both. - Liza + = ?
Robert should have cc'd the FriendFeed feedback room - Bwana ☠
Phil: it is Sunday and they do need some time off of their work. Hopefully Kevin will show up tonight or tomorrow. - Robert Scoble
Liz: yep, I love FF's IM integration. I've got a popout window open on the side of my desktop and can keep up with things (from this thread and everything I monitor on FF) much more easily. - Sam Harrelson from IM
LIZA - not lisa or liz, ha ha - Liza + = ?
With that said, I love FriendFeed's comment UI. That's what hooked me to the service - Bwana ☠
Robert - I am clicking on everything in site, so if I blow up something, oops, sorry. - Liza + = ?
Liza apologies. multi-tasking fail. - Sam Harrelson from IM
Glen, yep, that's where discoverability comes in. Things should be easy to discover based on visual cues. It shouldn't be like playing a game of Myst. - Akiva
UNaffordances - Liza + = ?
Robert - yeah, even if they read this tomorrow, there's good stuff here that's important if the service it to grow in use. - phil baumann
Say it with me folks : User-friendly-ability. We HAZ NONE here. - Sean
Robert - now that you are here, I also think it is a mistake to expect users to choose FF or Twitter - recently you have backed off and choose to use both, BUT many of your "followers" are testy with those of us who use both. Until FF is easier to use, I will use both. That is my choice. Positioning FF as Twitter hating is bad move, ppl. - Liza + = ?
Who is positioning FF as a Twitter hater? Some people hate Twitter (I personally think Twitter is a waste of mindwidth). How does that have anything to do with FF other than the fact that they post on FF? - Brian Sullivan
Brian, do a search, you will find MANY ppl are positioning FF as anti-twitter, and I don't agree with the approach. I personally get a LOT of grief from both sides of the fence for using both, and I am not going to pick a side just b/c others tell me I should. - Liza + = ?
Kevin - yes, that is a frustration. - phil baumann
Kevin, totally agreed with that comment, especially when using via the iPhone. It's nice to see comments per OP, but the UI for managing things is horrible and wastes a lot of time, denting my enthusiasm for more participation. - Sally Church
Officially PISSED OFF - using IM FAIL. Opens new page for every feed. Then I respond in Gtalk and get unknown command. F this. Time to breath deep and try not to explode. - Liza + = ?
Liza, type in "help" for the list of commands in IM or there's a list on the site. Not sure about the page thing... I don't get that in GTalk. - Sam Harrelson from IM
Liza: consistently when people meet me they ask "what is next after Twitter?" I don't answer FriendFeed, I wish I could. - Robert Scoble
I don't like help menus or reading instructions. I appreciate your efforts, but I am just pissed off in general b/c I like to figure things out on my own. I can't spend yrs clicking on FF for hidden treasures. - Liza + = ?
People always ask me why should they use FriendFeed over Twitter.... it gets old after a while - Bwana ☠
Robert - exactly, if we knew what was next, it would be dull. Beauty in playing, mashing, exploring. - Liza + = ?
Wow Robert, way throw out an HCI term! Are we going to discuss GOMS or Fitts' Law next? :-) - Bill Welense from iPhone
Bwana - I gave it a shot yesterday with some success in the last day. - - phil baumann
Robert - nice comment. Would love to tweet it to share, but don't know how to isolate it on this f-d up interface. - Liza + = ?
Liza - I'd like to be able to tweet comments they way Disqus allows it. - phil baumann
This is Liza frustrated and cranky, sorry for letting my evil twin out, but this feed triggered it. #blamescoble - Liza + = ?
I'm wondering if FriendFeed will remain the domain of us geeks. Is that a BIG enough market for their business model though? - Jim Connolly
I secretly hope so, Jim. Twitter was great in 2006 B.K. (Before Kutchner) when it was populated only by geeks :) - Sam Harrelson from IM
Holden: Well, I'm pretty sure someone hopes to make some money from FF. - Jim Connolly
Sam: I have to admit, I would hate to see FF flooded like Twitter is. - Jim Connolly
The fact is Robert that These problems have never crossed my mind. Actually, come to think of it. A unified settings page would be nice. However. Just becuae the UI is unconventional, going against the grain, does not mean it's a bad UI. I'd love to see a mockup of how you would do it better. - Roberto Bonini from iPhone
Holden: I didn't say it wasn't great. I still use and love Twitter. I just miss the good ole days. - Sam Harrelson from IM
Don't even get me started with a wish list of options. - Liza + = ?
CONFESSION: I did not know until now about double clicking on the time-link to get a pop-out window. - Jim Connolly
Holden: Twitter's a spam-filled hunk of crap. - Jim Connolly
Holden: You may not automatically see a business model, but they would have had to produce something to get $$$ funding. BTW: Twitter's got the audience, though. It's where the people are. Only reason I use it. - Jim Connolly
Friendfeed is not difficult to use. It is so intuitive. I love that I can easily block certain things, search for items that have a specific number of likes, see a user's likes, etc. It's wayyyyyyy easy. - Ben Hanten
Ben: A lot of new users tell me they can't figure it out. - Jim Connolly
they're not trying then, Jim - Chris Heath
If this was put up to a vote, I would vote to have a better FAQ, but I would definitely keep the design as free of extra buttons as possible. - Ben Hanten
Hmm, wow, lots of comments fast on this post. Too bad it's a Sunday, I imagine Kevin is up to other things right this second... - Jason Wehmhoener
Can someone help me find the link to create imaginary friend? - Krishnamoorthy
Holden, well that's their loss if they can't 'get it' - friendfeed is simple and IMHO if you can't 'get it' then that's your problem, not friendfeed's - Chris Heath
the Imaginary Friend function is now a part of Groups. for example, I created a private "group" with my wife's name and brought in all of her feeds since she's not on FriendFeed. - Sam Harrelson from IM
Ok, the imaginary friend thing is a different story. Awesome concept; but way too much work to add a bunch of users. - Ben Hanten
I think a good start would be to have a totally different "entry point" for setting up hiding rules. Also, defaults might need to be reconsidered. Is it the best to always start off by showing everything from a user? FF already asks you to select your "top five" feeds you want to show off in your profile... Could it make sense to only show stuff from people's top five by default, so one needs to opt-in to get any more of their feeds? - Meryn Stol
Perhaps a big, dedicated "mute Twitter" (though I'd prefer "Kill Twitter" ;)) button would also make sense. After all, Twitter is in itself responsible for most items - and thus most potential "noise" - on FriendFeed. - Meryn Stol
you can still quickly create an imaginary friend (as Sam said it's part of groups now) but if you don't want to choose the private group setting yourself just go here - Chris Heath
maybe i'm wrong and an imaginary friend is different than a private group, but the functionality seems the same - there was a discussion a few months ago about this: - Chris Heath
Chris, yep... good point. - Sam Harrelson from IM
Imaginary friends are easy to setup, but... you really should be able to do a whole batch of them. - Ben Hanten
Ben, it's rather janky, but my students have private Twitter accts for labs in my class that I read and interact with using the Imaginary Friends + private Groups feature. Plus, I have a nice archive of all student activity that I can search through. Not a great solution, but a good workaround for my extreme case. - Sam Harrelson from IM
there's a lot on the friendfeed roadmap, and i think that's one of the items... if you participate in the friendfeed feedback room you can get lots of answers to these types of questions - Chris Heath
Interesting topic. For me personally I use FF for reading rather than contributing or commenting, and via mobile more than the web, but I do agree the UI isn't the best. I would like a google reader or better still, a Feedly style interface. I want to know about what I haven't seen that's in my groups or feeds. And I want that simple and easy with no hidden features or maybe simple and expert interfaces. - Keith Bennett from BuddyFeed
It's not the UI that's keeping the mainstream from using the site. This is akin to asking why the mainstream has yet to discover the wonders of traditional message boards. Fact of the matter is most people don't have the desire (not to mention spare time) to continually engage with a stream full of random social media tidbits on a regular basis. But if that's your cup of tea, I think the UI is excellent for sharing, discovering, and keeping up with the real-time chatter. - Aviv
Kevin, it's pretty simple to get to your likes. - Sam Harrelson from IM
Has Kevin Fox responded to this thread? - Manuel Mas
Not sure he should -- seems like Robert made vicious and personal attack -- and a lack of response might be appropriate and classy. - Brian Sullivan
I certainly wouldn't join into this pile-on if I were Kevin. "Oh hey, I noticed you all were kicking me while I was trying to have a weekend, here I am now, go ahead for another round!" - Jason Wehmhoener
On the bright side, you know your service is about to hit mainstream when your biggest cheerleader starts to hate it (see Twitter). - Aviv
Aviv: nah, that's not a good predictor. - Robert Scoble
One thing I would like to know is, where is the link in friendfeed to the application key? I always have to search it from google. - Ru Viljoen
it's unnecessary to be brutally rude RB but these comments are valuable, we are expecting alot from 12 FF supergeeks, they cannot be perfect but they are incredibly good already. - Thomas Power
I think "hide" was perfectly designed. The user doesn't get smacked in the face immediately upon loading a page in friendfeed that resembles the control panel of an old fashioned telephone switchboard. One simple hide link, that the user will click when they want to hide something, that then asks what you want to hide. It's called not overwhelming the user with too much info at once,... more... - April Russo (FForever!)
April: they can put a lot of functionality into "settings" that would also do the same thing as hide does today. Most people don't figure out that the hide link has extra functionality. - Robert Scoble
It's better than what facebook does, which is to hide their multi-function hide button, until you hover over the item. I'd rather have it the friendfeed way and at least know it's there by looking and not by having to play "find the invisible features" game by moving my mouse all over the page waiting for all the little facebook easter eggs to make themselves known. You have no idea how... more... - April Russo (FForever!)
And I don't understand how any twitter user could possibly not know that the timestamp is a permalink. Timestamps on twitter are permalinks too. Ok, the clicking again thing was a bit of an easter egg, but how else could you add a nifty little feature like that without adding any clutter? Even if you gave a full tutorial FAQ, how on earth could you present all these little extras in a way that doesn't overwhelm a newbie and make them run away without reading the huge FAQ? - April Russo (FForever!)
Missing the point, not about geeks vs non-geeks, even geeks disagree on UI issues,and it is dismissive and insulting to act as if mainstream is not geeky enough to understand crappy UI. My opinion matters, and it was not until a fellow geek, Scoble, brought it up that anyone acknowledged that there may be some UI issues. - Liza + = ?
I know of a site that has worse issues, for example, clicking the RSS icon on a page takes you to a forum thread with a gazillion posts explaining how to subscribe to the content you want, using all the custom crap they have. You basically have to learn how to build your own RSS url before you can subscribe. And don't click the "Mark" button on a forum thread there unless you want to... more... - April Russo (FForever!)
FF may be messing with affordances, but I don't see it as f*cling with them. I see it as an attempt to innovate. The 'nonintuitive' behavior is a bit of a PITA, but it adds richness to the app. It is also innovation in action. The most painful upshot of suck innovation ia the fet associated with playing with a UI's functionality - you might end up breaking something really important or... more... - Jason Miller from iPhone
JCUnwired That is not helpful or constructive. Stick to one-sided debates. - Liza + = ?
Funny thing is though... I have used Excel and Word without ever reading a manual. Now I'm pretty ninja at both but never had any formal training. Neither has about 95% of the people I know how use it, yet everyone I know has worked it out enough to use it well. See, they have these things up the top like File, Edit etc that hold the functions. Those things are not always required and... more... - Johnny
Well put johnny - Mark from iPhone
Which social app has the best interface? Easy Facebook. - John Hardy
As far as I can tell "affordance" and "discoverability" are different ways of looking at the same concept. And I've been complaining about the timestamp thing for a long time. - Karl Knechtel
I've been complaining about FF's ease of use since I started using it. I'm glad there's some traction on it. ridiculous that the time stamp is not displayed as a (permanent) link. - jbrotherlove
Never mind that the timestamp isn't displayed as a link. The problem is that it makes no sense for the timestamp to be the thing that is clicked. - Karl Knechtel
I like it, its a nice gate. It keeps FF tech based. It keeps things relevant. Its an Acid Test. There are plenty of alternatives. And those alternatives that cater to everyone, are full of Blither Blather. If you pass the gate, and pass the Acid Test, you learn about the community and the discussion. With a robust Community and Discussion, Self Policing and Spammers are annihilated. Self Healing Robust System. - Robert Higgins
Apostol Apostolov, Ana ( ) has confirmed that they're on the issue of adding recipients and groups after posting an item about a month ago - - Chris Heath
I totally agree with Robert HIggins & Johnny Worthington's recent comments - Chris Heath
Robert, thanks for your thoughts. Three quick responses: affordances aren't something that someone fucks with, they're something that a designer gives to a design and it's fine to say that you don't think I'm designing a product with proper affordances or strong enough affordances, but the implication that I fucked them up is that I took the gestalt natural affordances of something and... more... - Kevin Fox
The above distinction is important because the argument then becomes one of whether or not FriendFeed has been imbued with proper affordances or not. Now naturally the answer varies from person to person, as it does with any UI for any product. FriendFeed is trying to balance functionality with simplicity and, as is the case for any product with that task, any point on the spectrum could be criticized for either hiding too much of the complexity or showing too much, even at the same by different people. - Kevin Fox
So the strategy then becomes, as has been mentioned here, one of making the simple things easy and the complex things possible. The most common tactic to enable that strategy, and one we rely upon a lot at FriendFeed, is that of progressive disclosure. This works for some people and not for others, but it's usually an excellent way to make a UI that's not intimidating to a new user, and... more... - Kevin Fox
As for the timestamp also acting as the permalink: Well, you're absolutely right. This is a completely improper affordance that only makes sense if you happen to be familiar with blogs that use the same convention. Fixing this (with something less heavy-handed than a link that says 'link' or 'permalink' or (gasp) an icon of two links in a chain) is high on our list and I want to fold it... more... - Kevin Fox
When we get that worked out in a way we're happy with then we'll roll it out. Until then, it's also important to consider user confidence, and that tweaking a UI too often when trying to find the right answer makes users less comfortable with the design and their ability to manipulate it, even if they don't consciously notice any change. For this reason a few things stay rough a little longer until we have what we think is the right answer, not just a stopgap one. - Kevin Fox
As always, thanks for the feedback, and for trying to make FriendFeed a better place. - Kevin Fox
Wow - Bwana ☠
Wow. +500 xp to Kevin. - Sam Harrelson
Kevin I love you because you explain why you are messing with the affordances! :-) - Robert Scoble from iPhone
Doesn't sound like they're ignoring it to me, Robert :) - Bwana ☠
Bwana: me neither! Glad Kevin explained. - Robert Scoble from iPhone
I'm liking this article simply because of Kevin's explanation of why things are the way they are here on friendfeed. He knocked that one out of the park. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Kevins camp. In Japanese there is one word for beauty. Kirei. Actually, it is the same word for Clean Kirei. 奇麗 FF for me is clean and beautiful. "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Leonardo daVinci - Robert Higgins
So if we're going to change the time stamp from being a permalink, can we use it to sort posts chronologically? That is the one affordance no one can discover. - Andrew Smith
I didn't read the full thread, but reading the top and (what is at this point) the bottom really helps me understand what the UI people do. Thanks Robert and Kevin! - Andrew
Big props to Kevin Fox. - Sameer
Kevin rocks. Even on a Sunday night. They pay me to say stuff like that at work. The thought of having to step up to the plate anytime 24/7 with that level of professionalism is daunting, to say the least. So yah, big props to Kevin Fox. - Jason Wehmhoener
I actually like the current UI. I like the feature set. I agree it DOES need a more intuitive and quicker way to know about and learn the deeper features. - George Hall (Australia)
There is something to be said for having the conversation first - then Kevin calmly explaining his pts. It gives others a chance to respond honestly, and then Kevin gets far more valuable feedback. Selifishly, I also like the fact that I can see others' views - many who did not address UI issues but showed a defensive sense of entitlement (see Louis's chart on new adopters)...Robert,... more... - Liza + = ?
Great responses Kevin. For the record, I'm a fan of the "progressive disclosure" approach. - Mike Doeff from iPhone
Really great points, Robert. I've learned some things because of this discussion. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. - Brian Adrian
One answer to Kevin. Blogs, since the beginning of when I started to use them used the "permalink" or "#" convention. I guess the thing is that in FriendFeed the CSS here is hiding the blue underline, so people don't know that the time stamp is a link. It's tough designing for the web, I know. That's why I don't do it. At least very often. :-) - Robert Scoble
Twitter uses a time stamp as a perma-link as well. </fuel to fire> - Bwana ☠
Yeah. I just tweeted about that myself. </more fuel to fire> - Dennis Jernberg
Fascinating. Didn't know about the timestamp as permalink, but I didn't suffer from unnatural affordance issues prior to reading this discussion either. Not an ubergeek, but I don't suffer. So, maybe FF is not "above the heads" of the average, but merely yields enough at any level to meet whatever the particular need might be, wacky affordances or not. And people who avoid it because it is "too hard" need to toughen up a bit. This is 2009 and the Internet, after all. - Martha
Also, the "Share" link exposes the permalink as well which I think was a great addition to alleviate the time stamp confusion. - Bwana ☠
Wow. How did Kevin get those 5 paragraphs contiguously posted? Copy-paste-post. Copy-paste-post? Or is there some other secret weapon not yet released? - Nick in Manila
Nick - I'd bet 1000 gil on Notepad/Textedit :) - Bwana ☠
I'm waiting for the twitter theme for friendfeed, to show people exactly how easy FF is to use considering its features and exactly how braindead twitter's UI is. - Andy Bakun
Nick & Bwana: Textedit and copy/paste/post. As I was c/p/p-ing I thought about how I could make a tool using the API to allow for this kind of thing, then envisioned how that would break FriendFeed and banished the thought. (and then I just commented about it anyhow. Oh what have I wrought? I am become death, destroyer of words.) - Kevin Fox
Bwana: hey, at least FriendFeed's designer listens and answers back. That might get more mud thrown his way, but a whole lot of love too. Personally Twitter's design isn't very good, but everyone thinks it is because it doesn't have many features so they perceive that as simplicity. I perceive it as inferior but that really pisses off the Twitter types and they start arguing with me about stuff like the above. - Robert Scoble
Robert - I was just thinking that. We would NEVER get this kind of interaction with a Twitter dev on a work day. - Bwana ☠
Part of me knew Kevin would address this at some point. It was merely a matter of when. - Bwana ☠
I hope this thread/conversation doesn't end any time soon, either here on this post or elsewhere. I want FF to be the best it can. - phil baumann
I think FF is waaaaaay easier to use than Twitter and recently started using FF to follow my twitter feeds. Images and videos are inline and comments are threaded (no silly @ replies). I only wish more of my friends were on it!! (also, it would be nice if comments were formatted with the commenters name first which seems to be the convention on most sites i.e. "May: blah blah blah"). - May
To go back to the top a little bit: does anyone think it ISN'T weird that not all the links on FF are blue? Not just the time stamp: the service your content was imported from, your name at the top of your profile, and the time stamp are all non-blue links. Is there a logical reason for those inconsistencies? I've never understood that. - Andrew
Awesome explanation by Kevin. I happen to love FF's progressive disclosure. I think the 'hide' feature is a great example of this. You could argue that they might make the second stage a bit more obvious, but it's still a lot better than a huge drop down menu at the start. - Ben Reierson
Even Twitter has a ramp up time. It took me about a month of working it to get comfortable with it. Only slightly longer than it took me with Twitter. And it is light years better in most every way. I agree with Robert's desire to enforce change through public criticism, but I think it important to keep it in perspective: FF is generally a better experience on all fronts. Kudos to Kevin Fox and the rest of the team. I feel confident they are more than capable of seeing issues and resolving them. - Martha
i never really had a problem with that Andrew, and I never had the problem with the permalink either... if your mouse changes from pointer to finger, then it's a link and you can see the destination in the status bar - Chris Heath
Andrew: I actually hate blue underlines. Designers have hated that affordance for years. They look ugly. They make text harder to read. I'm in Kevin Fox's camp on that one. Get rid of underlines! Just make affordances that people can figure out without being told about (like clicking twice on hide or clicking twice on the time stamps). - Robert Scoble
robert, i don't get your clicking twice on hide problem... hide seems fine, and while i don't use it much i don't recall clicking twice, like with the timestamp - Chris Heath
Chris: normal people don't mouse over every word in a UI to discover whether there is a secret link there. Also, explain how hovering over "hide" would tell a user that there's different functionality there if you click twice on that word? - Robert Scoble
Chris: if you click twice on the word "hide" you will get different UI that will give you different choices. If you click twice on the time stamp you will get a popout window. Not intuitive at all. - Robert Scoble
when i click hide i get an undo and hide options links, that seems the correct UI - i agree with you on the timestamp, but the hide thing isn't the same - Chris Heath
Chris: Hide does act differently, I agree, but most people, in my experience, don't look at the second page because they don't expect to see more options. Remember 99% of people never click on Google's Advanced Options. Do you REALLY expect people to click twice on Hide? I don't. And even if they did, shouldn't those features be in settings too? Where people expect to find them? - Robert Scoble
i don't buy your beef w/ hide, but i agree on the timestamp - i also agree with you on not having to hover everything to see if it's click-able and also don't like underlining, so there needs to be some other visual cue of the link/feature - Chris Heath
sometimes features do need to be learned/taught and everything can't be intuitive... i think we might be overshooting our ideals for usability. remember the days of three ring binders and books and manuals for using any given system or software package? we've come a long way, but users do have to learn some things. i think friendfeed has done a good job of making the site usable for the... more... - Chris Heath
Given a top complaint about FriendFeed is too much noise, Hide needs to be more intuitive. - Bwana ☠
Since I still get the dumb blonde / not techie treatment from many, I am going to go w/ it and say that even I figured out hide early on. The timestamp stuff was news to me. - Liza + = ?
I'd wager at least half of FriendFeed doesn't know about the second page of hide options. I've had to explain it countless times and a ton of people didn't even know you could selectively hide services based on comment/like behavior, etc - Bwana ☠
Kevin, Thanks for listening and major props for taking your time to listen to constructive critisicm. - Jack Wilson, K4SAC
9/10 of the folks that use Word, Excel, Powerpoint, etc don't know all the features and functions. Having every single function be completely intuitive and/or labeled is not needed for mainstream acceptance or usage if that's what we're all worried about here. - Sam Harrelson from IM
Every single function, I agree. Hide, needs to be more intuitive. - Bwana ☠
Bwana, I agree as a power-user, but how many folks would actually use "Hide"? It's an edge-case function that will/would never catch on with the mainstream. I just don't get these complaints. - Sam Harrelson from IM
Sam: you're right. But I didn't get this kind of pushback when I evangelized Twitter and Facebook had many more hooks to get people into their system than FriendFeed does (and keep them there) and even Facebook doesn't have a lot of the weird affordances that FriendFeed does even though it's more complex. The complaints I get consistently on FriendFeed (a lot of which have to do with... more... - Robert Scoble
Oh, and the number of comments here tells me a lot of people feel very passionately about FriendFeed and want it to be better, even if they are telling me I'm full of it. - Robert Scoble
The complaint is noise. There's too much. There's too many duplicates. I don't want to see "X". These are complaints I see and answer often. The solution is hide and they don't know about them. It's not a power user function imho. - Bwana ☠
FF lost a lot of users during the initial launch because people didn't know about or want to properly hide unwanted stuff. - Bwana ☠
"FriendFeed is full of baby photos" Classic complaint. Solved by hide. - Bwana ☠
It's always the user's fault. Always. - Rahsheen
Robert, I got on Twitter around Thanksgiving of '06 b/c of your evangelicalism (thank you/curse you btw!). But the concept there was/is much more easy to grok. Of course folks are going to think FF is hard b/c it is hard. But to bastardize JFK, "we choose to go to the moon and do these other things in this decade not b/c they are easy but b/c they are hard!" - Sam Harrelson from IM
friendfeed isn't hard...unless you think a blank piece of paper is hard. - Scoble, Alex Scoble
Depends on your definition of hard. Some people think complicated or inconvenient is hard. - Bwana ☠
Alex, have you ever written a book for a publisher that loaned you money and expects the money back? A blank piece of paper is incredibly hard! - Sam Harrelson
Look at lists. Very powerful tool of FriendFeed, but for some, it's too much work. Some may call it hard, some may call it.... too much work :) - Bwana ☠
Sam: but this blank piece of paper can write itself thanks to the integration with other sites :) - Andrew
I know in the apps I've tested, if the UI was difficult for the end user, they would avoid using it. - Bwana ☠
Andrew, you are completely right. Good point. I'm thinking from a contributing point of view (b/c I'm a teacher and I always want to influence, etc) but you're right. - Sam Harrelson
Alex: is blank paper sort of like a blank Wordpress entry screen? I get it then. - Robert Scoble
Seeing a real-time stream of the full conversation is highly desirable and one of the best features of the service. I design and use software all the time and didn't know about the time stamp link until someone told me about it. Robert is doing them (another) favor by using controversial language to bring attention to the issue. I bet we see an update in a week or two and the service will be better for it. - Chip Ramsey
I can see it now: if entry["from"]["id"] == "scobelizer": theme = "lots-o-links" - DGentry
either that, or entry["body"] = pigLatinize(entry["body"]) - DGentry
Wow ... Great dialog. Kudos to Kevin for his comments! I have demo'd Friendfeed for more people than I can count. Most of the issue has to do with people's time vs value (or just fun). Is it harder than Facebook? NO! Nobody says you have to use it all and 9 out of 10 people I've demo'd Facebook for have NO IDEA what a permission is (Think about that ... and the defaults?!). Twitter has... more... - Charlie Anzman
Then ... The Friendfeed Browser and OS! - Charlie Anzman
Robert, given Kevin's responses, you might want to edit/tweak the Original Post/headline. I wish there was a way to promote the comments so they were 'pinned' to the OP - Aaman (Clone of FF)
Aaman: what's an OP? The headline? - Robert Scoble
Yes, the Original Post - I wasn't familiar with the term myself, and saw it first on this very thread, then googled it. (It can also mean Original Poster) - Aaman (Clone of FF)
Glen: I'm not scared of feeling dumb. I feel dumb every day given the quality of the people I hang out with. - Robert Scoble
@Kevin: wondering if there could be a link that would take you to a page that would show what features have been added, disabled, or removed. - Harold
Matthew: you make sense. I've locked the comments here so you can see Kevin Fox's reply without digging back too far. - Robert Scoble
Joe Beda
We are heading to Yellowstone next week with the kids. Suggestions on what to do or see?
Old Faithful, but try to go on some hikes away from the roads. That is where the real Yellowstone experience is. I especially liked seeing the Artists' Paintpots: - Robert Scoble
Mammoth Hot Springs are really great. Are you staying in the park, or are you still looking for place to stay? How long will you be there? - Robert Scoble
Take lots of pictures before it blows. - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Go to Grand Tetons park next door. Less crowded and, in my opinion, even more beautiful than Yellowstone. Coulter Bay camping has these really cool half tent/half log cabin places. - Spidra Webster
We have 5 nights booked in a cabin next to the Lake Yellowstone Hotel. I'm thinking about cutting that short and spending some time in the Tetons. Any suggestions on where to stay there without camping? - Joe Beda from iPhone
Mammoth hot springs has a decent open-air old fashioned bus tour of some of the park, could be great with kids. I've only camped in Tetons park, but there is at least one lodge operated inside it (top Google hit). The variety inside Ystone is amazing, but your trip to Tetons is a good idea. It's an amazing place, do it! - Sean O'Connor
Spidra is absolutely right. You MUST visit the Tetons. There are a variety of hotels in Jackson Hole, I don't have any good suggestions on which ones are best. - Robert Scoble
One other thought: The Grand Tetons are very spectacular and one of my favorite towns to walk around is Jackson Hole. I usually see Moose near Grand Tetons too, and that's always a thrill. But the secret to Yellowstone is that it's NOT spectacular (mostly). To me Yellowstone is about the small things. The mud pots. The walks through the pools of water and the geysers. The solitude of... more... - Robert Scoble
You'll also find that five days is not enough. For either park. So splitting up your time will rush you and you'll miss the great things in both parks. It pains me that people just drive through Yellowstone, without going for a long walk through the geysers. And in Grand Tetons they are so spectactular you won't want to leave after two days. You'll find yourself kicking yourself for going for such a short time. - Robert Scoble
Camp near Jenny Lake. It's magical first thing in the morning. - Jack&Cleo
Here's a shot I made of Grand Tetons, which gives you a sense of the spectacular nature of them: - Robert Scoble
Lewis and Clark caves. Another, Grand Prismatic hot spring. There is a great viewing location on a hill next to it. - Scott Ludwig
If you've got kids with you, see the elkhorn gates in Jackson Hole (if they're still there...I haven't been since the '80s). - Spidra Webster
Spidra: they are. - Robert Scoble
Lots of great ideas. Thanks! - Joe Beda from iPhone
Hike to the Bradley and Taggart lake in the Tetons - Vishy
See President Obama. He might just be there at the same time. I would suggest going out of your way to Lamar Valley. It's off the beaten path but there are lots of great animal sightings there including wolves (if lucky) and bears. - Jim Goldstein from iPhone
Cristo and Joe: I'm jealous of all of you. Even though I've been to Yellowstone quite a few times (my mom lived 20 miles from the Northern Border. Hope you bring back lots of great photos. Oh, and do visit Moose, Wyoming we always see Moose there. - Robert Scoble
Finally, I HIGHLY recommend taking a river cruise and having breakfast on the river near Jackson Hole. It's not whitewater and you'll float through some of the most photographic country in the world. - Robert Scoble
Darn. We miss Obama by a couple if days. Probably just as well. Cristo -- I'll have to check out Hotel Terra. - Joe Beda from iPhone
Cristo: sorry, I am still a little under the influence of tequila. I was thinking of river rafting. See this: - Robert Scoble
Lewis and Clark caverns, are the best fun for an afternoon, use your time wisely. So much to do there.I lived there for a year. Had a year long pass. - James Hunter
There's a raft company that offers breakfast trips. You have to get up very early, but getting up early is very worth it. First of all, light is better for photography. We saw several bald eagles. Second of all it isn't so hot. Third of all you get breakfast on the water, which is an experience all to itself. Fourth of all you're back in Jackson Hole early so you can do something else with your day, which, if Joe doesn't change his plans, is going to be important. - Robert Scoble
Glen: just to be clear: the breakfast trip I took had no whitewater and was only a scenic rafting trip. The water always moved slowly and no danger to anyone or kids. Separate trips offer whitewater. - Robert Scoble
Cristo: the scenic breakfast trips were only four hours long, if I remember right (7 a.m. to 11). Whitewater ones are longer. I might be wrong, though. If breakfast doesn't work out, look for sunset ones. The light at that time of the day is exquisite. - Robert Scoble
By the way, if you go to Grand Tetons, make sure you see Jenny Lake. Or even better, try to stay there: I've always wanted to go sailing on Jenny Lake, but it's never worked out for me. Look at the photos and you'll get a sense of how nice it is there. - Robert Scoble
Cristo: how long will you be there? I wouldn't consider leaving Jackson Hole area if you aren't there for more than three days. - Robert Scoble
Glen: yup, every year stupid people kill themselves in Yosemite. I remember seeing all the signs above the falls that had numerous warnings to that effect and hearing the stories from park rangers. - Robert Scoble
Cristo: I wouldn't leave then. I hate leaving Jackson Hole. I could sit out on a deck there and just soak in the scene for days. If you are into photography don't miss a single sunrise. Not a single one. - Robert Scoble
Cristo: can you ski steep stuff? If you can't you might come away VERY afraid. I know I did. But I still want to ski there someday. - Robert Scoble
Cristo: they do have lots of intermediate runs, but when you stare up the slopes at Grand Teton you will probably feel some fear. If you don't, you're probably crazy enough to snowboard there. :-) - Robert Scoble
Robert Scoble
How I thank people for great Tweets: I favorite them. Far better than #followfriday.
Does Twitter API allow someone to be able to pull favorites to build a "top favorites" list or cloud? - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Jason Pollock
Kansas man wins big in lottery for 2nd time in 2009 =
I have to wonder why the best thing this guy could think of doing after winning the lottery is to keep playing the lottery. Some people have no imagination, it seems - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Robert Scoble
Sigh. Apple's iPhone won't upload videos to YouTube. I'll complain more about this here:
So, it compresses, it seems like it's uploading, but then it fails and says only that it can't complete the upload. This happens over and over. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. - Robert Scoble
Talking of which, no background processes, either..... - Roberto Bonini from iPhone
The thing is, it happens on both WiFi and 3G. It happens if you turn off WiFi. It doesn't seem to matter how long the video is. - Robert Scoble
Is this an iphone, network or youtube issue? - Sean Scott
And worse, when it fails, you have to reenter all the metadata about the video again to try it again (title, description, etc). Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh. This feature was definitely not debugged. Not to Apple's quality level. I guess this is what happens when Steve Jobs takes six months off. - Robert Scoble
Sean: who knows? There's no information. I assume that because it happens on both WiFi and 3G that it's not a network issue. And, since I've never had a YouTube upload fail otherwise I assume it's not a YouTube issue. That leaves the iPhone. Buggy! - Robert Scoble
Been trying to tell you about TweetReel geez ;) - Colin
Apostol: I'm very close to getting an Android. - Robert Scoble
Maybe it's linked to the Twitter DDOS thing? I'm still under DDOS lockdown. - Colin
Colin: no. It has happened to me ever since I got the iPhone, not just in past week. - Robert Scoble
Colin, you mean -- but why should I have to pay $2.99 to get functionality that's already built into my phone? Sigh. - Robert Scoble
I just tried uploading a video from my Iphone to YouTube and it worked. Might be AT &T problem? I am in Canada under Rogers contract for Iphone service. - Shawna Bergen
Well, it seems to work for me. Go figure: - Carter ♥ JS
I can tell that my suggestion to sync the vids using iTunes and then upload is stupid. But yeah. Yet Another Apple Complaint - Roberto Bonini from iPhone
Apple provides hardware, developers provide some of the software, that's the way it works with some things. - Colin
I have not tried this feature, but having a 3G it's kind of moot anyway.The iPhone/AT&T juggernaut gets increasingly underwhelming with every passing day, every new "feature". I'd be on the Pre by now, but can't stand Sprint. Going to have to wait. Meanwhile I may just buy a regular phone to do things that phones do, you know, like make calls without getting dropped all the time. - Laura Scott (@lauras)
I'm in the U.S. but I'm 99% sure it used my WiFi connection to handle the transfer. - Carter ♥ JS
Apostol - What's the "best" Android option at this point (from a generally satisfied iPhone user but someone who really likes Google's tools and openness). . .? - DaveFriesen
Colin: TweetReel doesn't upload existing videos, unfortunately. Carter: yes, sometimes it works. Which is why this is ultrafrustrating. - Robert Scoble
Send your vids to Posterous - Dominic Jones
Robert, it sure does upload existing videos heh. - Colin
It's been happening to me for weeks too! Also uploading to MobileMe fails most of the time. And there is no 'retry' - Cameron
As long as you still have them on your phone, right now Apple doesn't give a way to copy videos back to your phone (3.1 it may however) - Colin
@Apostol I was just lusting over a few unlocked HTC Hero's to replace my iPhone. You might have put me over the top. - Sam Harrelson
Yep, I've been waiting out for the Samsung or even the "cheap" Motorola Android's that are supposedly coming soon. Having had an iPhone for a while, I'm (at this point after the App Store mess) more concerned with using a device made by a company that treats me like an adult :) - Sam Harrelson
I have had similar issues - but only with bigger files - ben rogers
Apostol: Gotcha, thx for the info. Looking more like the Hero then! - Sam Harrelson
Robert, I use new and old video to upload to youtube from 3GS all the time. Only issue is if I try when it flips to Edge. - Alan Ashley
Is it a long video, because I just uploaded a short one 36 sec. without any trouble - Kim Landwehr
Kim: it's about 3 minutes long. - Robert Scoble
Kim, I can't even upload a 15 second with a fail... - Cameron
Use Pixelpipe for video uploads, you can send videos up to 200MB directly from the phone (without re-encoding) to over 50 services of their +100 support destinations - Brett Butterfield
Weird, must be a hit or miss thing not good. - Kim Landwehr
What also sucks is that there is no option to choose whether to upload the standard 4:3 footage or crop to 16:9 for upload. Although I guess it doesn't really matter if you can't upload it! :-) - Cameron
On a related issue: Does anyone have trouble playing YouTube videos on their iPhone over WiFi? - Barak B
If people are still having problems uploading to YouTube from iPhone, please direct message me w/ approx date/time and YouTube username so I can look into it. - John Harding
Tara Hunt
Unfiltered cold sake ftw!
Yum! Like drinking clouds! - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Laura Scott (@lauras)
Today @pingv decided to replace our #Drupal-powered Client Support Center with Open Atrium, & port over our add'l features. #opensource
If that isn't a recommendation, I don't know what is! - Chrys
It's close enough to what we had that this does not represent a major disruption. And that's the goal for us: We don't want to spend a lot of time on our own infrastructure. We believe in the Drupal community, and like what we see in Open Atrium. - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Robert Scoble
What are the top 10 apps I should load on the new iPhone 3GS? I started out clean. More here, please tell me what you suggest here:
I've already loaded Facebook, Google, Evernote, and TweetDeck. Which apps are MUST HAVES. Only suggest apps you actually often use. I filled up my old iPhone with too many apps I never used. - Robert Scoble
Things. Best task manager I've ever used. I use it so often that I moved it to the bar along the bottom. - Akiva
Kevin: I'm not a big gamer, but would like to try out a couple. - Robert Scoble
Try the AP mobile news app to try out push notifications. - George Deane
Robert, you might also consider Blocked. It's a quick-play, no-impact puzzle game. - Akiva
when will we have a friend feed app, i like camerabag - Eran Even-Kesef
If you ever come to the UK, the National Rail Enquiries app is awesome. Can't live with out it now. - Roberto Bonini
I got Tuner so I could listen to Leo on the go. ;) Also just installed HeyWAY, might be interesting for you. Games: How about Star Defense? - Holger Eilhard
Try Snap2Twitter for tweeting photos - they just updated with geotagging...will compliment the new autofocus feature! - Tom Parnell
Peggle, without question. Best game on the iPhone. - Josh Bancroft
Remote - for controlling music through my home stereo system - joeszabo
I know you upload to Flickr... Try Flickit. You can upload your iPhone 3G S images with ease. - Jason Hansen
You definitely need the Read It Later app, extremely useful - Antonio Montero
Check out Numbrosia, an original and addictive number puzzle. (Yes, I developed it.) - Amir Michail
Instapaper. Great for those times when you don't have any internet. Also, Stanza for ebooks and Shazam to find out what a song you're currently hearing is. - Leon Freyermuth
Definitely want to see a Friendfeed App - Keven Elliff
I'd say Tweetie over TweetDeck. TweetDeck is still kind of crashtastic. Still waiting for my iPhone 3G S to be delivered! Analytics app, WordPress app, FlickIt (for sending full res pictures to flickr), Pandora, Kindle for iPhone, Scrabble (connects to Facebook FTW), Evernote, Peggle, Skype, Shazam - C. K. Sample III
I would think Pandora, but that's just me - Spirit 2.0
Keven: I second that, although MotherFeed isn't too bad. - John Fox
BeeJive IM is one I can't live without. Also Skype, Sonic, Flight Control and Last.Fm - Jono Russell
TweetDeck, Pandora, Dictionary, FStream (I use it to listen to when I'm away from my computer) and Colloquy (IRC client). - Antoniu
if you like to be in the photo - check out fototimer - I have used it quite a few times - Eduardo Merille
BeejiveIM and Stanza/Kindle are my two most used ones you haven't already added. - Antonio Zahra
You should get Twitterrific, AP Mobile, Flixster, What's On, Pandora, Dictionaire, Instapaper, TWC, Asphalt 4, and Shakespeare. - Alexander
Evernote, Instapaper, Tweetie, Facebook,, RTM, Satchel, Beejive IM and some games or something. - Brett Kelly
it would be nice if someone took this whole list and did a review of the actual top 10 3.0 apps. - Amir
Def prefer Twittelator Pro for tweeting. Pano is pretty cool for panoramic photo stitching in-camera. Pandora is a keeper. Free Memory or iStat could be crucial for killing runaway bg processes. HoldEm is the only game I end up returning to. Good advice on overloading. Better to overload with podcasts and tunes! - Laura Scott (@lauras)
I'll cast more votes for Things and FlickIt - both superb. 1Password is great for digital wallet / password manager purposes, although, like Things no Windows client - you need to be happy with Mac and iPhone. Animoto is a great app for knocking together slide shows really quickly. Autostitch is nice for stitching together several photos for a panoramic effect. If you ever do voice... more... - Patrick Jordan
Pandora, Shazam, Boombox, Flashlight,, LaTwit, craigsphone, Units, Carpenter, & NYTimes -- I also have homescreen bookmarks for Wolfram|Alpha, FriendFeed, Wunderground, & GMail - Chris Heath
Kevin, there are several already. I've been playing around with amigo lately. - Akiva
Things, reQall, Weightbot, GroceryGadget, Photogene, iFlashReady, SpeedTest - Ronald Barnett
Shazam - it listens to a song playing and identifies it for you. Use it surprisingly often when listening to the radio or in a business when music is playing. Very accurate. The majority of apps on my iPhone I never use... - Steve de Mena
the only one I didn't see mention on this that I use all the time is I.TV - Kim Landwehr
TweetDeck for the iPhone is NOT the best tweeting application. It uses up too much API, although I would still have it on my iPhone just to look at every now and then. Twitterrific is definitely the 5-star app ever since it realized its 2.0 version. TweetDeck is only a 3.5 to 4 star app in my mind. - Alexander
That vibrator one that was posted on FF yesterday somewhere. - Steve C, Team Marina
1Password. I can't live without it on my Mac and my iPhone. Tweetie, Pandora, Fieldrunners (still love this game), GV Mobile for Google Voice. Many more above are great as well. - Kelly Sims
SportsTap. I'm not a huge sports fan, but the ability to set favorite teams and get real time updates is great. Hopefully they'll put out a new version for 3.0 with push notifications. - Carlton Prest
BuddyFeed, Tweetie, Skype, AccuWeather, AirSharing - Susan Beebe
Photogene -- very cool photo editing application - RobinDotNet
Here's one that is a must for you: PangeaVR: - Orli Yakuel
i.TV for sure :) - Justin Whittaker
Try out Gokivo - the first TBT navigation app for the iPhone. We are excited to finally be able to launch our app on the iPhone. - Mark Goddard from BuddyFeed
I think I might have too much time - here is a count of the apps mentioned so far:Pandora 9 Evernote 7 TweetDeck 6 Stanza 4 Tweetie 4 Shazam 4 Facebook 4 BeeJive IM 3 Skype 3 Flickit 3 Things 3 Flight Control 3 Instapaper 3 Kindle 3 NYTimes 2 Peggle 2 AP Mobile 2 I.TV 2 Photogene 2 Twitterific 2 1Password 2 2 1 Shakespeare 1 Peggle 1 AirSharing 1 Star Defense 1 Eye-Fi 1... more... - Ryan Barnett
TWC is The Weather Channel, so there have actually been 2 TWC recommendations - Alexander
New to iphone but was a Touch user for a long time - I have many of these apps already - some new ones to check out now also. I just restored from my ipod Touch backup and all my existing apps came over. They seem to be working OK. Question - is it possible to rename my iphone as it now says it is my ipod Touch? - Tony Vota
Yes, you just right-click on the name of the iPod on the right-hand side in iTunes and select rename. - Leon Freyermuth
Trailguru, Sportacular, Livestrong, Foursquare all make my front page - Ryan Barnett
SnapTell, 9-toolbox, Flixster - Chad McCoskey
@leonf - Got it. Thanks. It was actually a double left click to select and rename. - Tony Vota
I'd swear by Remember The Milk as a task manager. Outside the built in apps, this is my most reliable and useful app, and there's an imminent update that I'm hoping will include push notifications. Other than that, my most oft used are Beejive IM, Kindle, Byline (for Google Reader syncing), Strands, Facebook and TweetDeck. And I'm posting this through a new FriendFeed app: AlertThingy which seems pretty awesome. - Owen from Alert Thingy
Must have for me is : Camera bag(Must have), Facebook, Tweetie and/or Tweetdeck(Not too stable), BeeJive IM, Shazam, Evernote, Airsharing, Urbanspoon, Remote for Keynote, Google Reader Web and GTalk Web. - Yan PHUN
Must try HeyWAY... Cool app - Mike Diaz
Oh yeah, and Documents to Go (Exchange edition) is proving very useful, just needs xls editing and MobileMe iDisk access. - Owen from Alert Thingy
@techsavvyguru - No problem. I just thought the right-click and select rename method was easier to explain. That does work, doesn't it? I haven't tried it in awhile. - Leon Freyermuth
Great question, tons of valuable answers here.. very nice :) - Susan Beebe
Evernote, tweetie, facebook, motherfeed, camerabag and camerakit - Thomas Chai
RssPlayer is my most used app. - Christian Burns
Why Jared, of course! - Daniel Krech
another vote for Weather Channel and the radar videos. Also Bloomberg for stocks and Checkbook for jotting down expenses to be entered into Quicken later. - Sarah Brinkerhoff
Agree you need to add Skype, BeeJive, and Pandora. I also like Todo and NYTimes. Just getting my head wrapped around TweetDeck for iPhone; been using Tweetie up to now. - Scotty Perkins
I'm setting mine up right now. I can't believe how well it works here! Thanks for asking this question here. This is my first iPhone, so I need all the advice I can get. I love this phone! - Michael Fidler
iFart, iBeer and the iphone star wars sword. The most popular iphone apps. - Charbax
I can't believe no one mentioned Yelp. I use it all the time, especially here in the bay area where you live. - Sam Pullara
surprised no one mentioned truphone - skype and push notification support - Riaz Kanani
'Things' is a daily go-to workhorse of an application, One of the best values in the app store. - Dean Kakridas
Remember the Milk, Bloomberg, Evernote, PCalc, Amazon, the Wearher Channel - Robert Hafer
appsniper - Jay Clark
I know this is lame: but I am addicted to the "Blowfish" game we downloaded for our kids. Trust me - it's very addicting. Weather Channel best weather app IMHO. Shazam. BuddyFeed. LinkedIn. Skype. - Curt Mercadante
Reisertris! - Vezquex
More votes for Photogene, Bloomberg and Weather Channel. ShoZu. USA Today. Is Urban Spoon a must? Not sure, but it came in handy when I was traveling. - MiniMage
Evernote, Red Delicious,Skype, Google Voice Search, FaceBook,Yelp, BrightKite, Domain Tool, iSSH, and FTPOnTheGo are a few good ones to start with. - Mike Elliott
I would but I ask you about a month ago in email what camera should I take on my bike you never answered back. But here are some ideas good mapping gps, google search, evernote. Now how about a camera pick please. - Darren Lowery
thirsty pocket, Tweetdeck, phoneflix, shazm,skype,facebook,google mobile,mint,yelp and iwant - Sai
Kindle, Shazam, trade Tweetdeck for Tweetie, FB, PageOnce for your bank accounts, Evernote, Google, and Wordpress. What's amazing about your list is that there's a lot of overlap among all the omments above considering how many iPhone apps exist. Very Few rise above the noise. - Francine Hardaway
You need BeejiveIM and TweetDeck, that is all. - David Ford
WeatherBug Elite, BBCReader, NYTimes, WSJ, Bloomberg - Bob Morris (polizeros)
Nambu for all things Twitter. Password. Google. Conversion. Linked In. NetNewsWire. iFirstAid. Flashlight. Wordpress. Currency. Dictionary. Level. A good, local weather application. - Greg Smith @ PR Lab
For the Twitter power user, Twittelator Pro 3.0 - Louis Trapani
Smugshot - Tony Fluharty
BuddyFeed is the best FriendFeed app I've found, and I'd go for either Twitterific or Tweetie over TweetDeck. Instapaper is vital, and either OmniFocus or Things depending on which you prefer on the desktop. If you're not a desktop app person for to dos, then RememberTheMilk is great. - Ian Betteridge
compass, skype, bubbles, Google Earth & document viewer. - Robert MacEwan
For video uploads direct from the 3G S to over 40 services you should give the new Pixelpipe 1.4.1 version a shot. Details at - Brett Butterfield
LOL. Now you're going to have a ton of Apps you never use! - Dane Deasy
I like the one that puts mullet hair cuts on friends head shots. - Christine Taylor
Robert - have you tried ALL of the above suggestions yet? If so, please report back with findings. :) - Patrick Jordan
Waiting for push notification support for IM apps. - Ashish
Robert - For news headlines with awesome photography - Thomson Reuters New Pro. Great for catching up whilst on the move. Keyword customisable. - Tom Ablewhite
get pandorabox best app - Blake Mathews
Public Radio, Pandora,Classics, Twitteriffic... tho I honestly haven't checked out any other Twitter Apps. - Orville Chomer
Thanks for great list of recommendations. :) - Daniel Schildt
2010 best indoor navigation without GPS unbelievably is FastMall - - Jennifer Jolie
Laura Scott (@lauras)
"Damn, I logged into disqus and lost my comment.... iPod function will work for me on my 3G while I do other things, like check email. The music keeps playing when I click the "home" button. Is this a firmware thing? Are you running the latest? You should be able to check email while listening to your iPod. Pandora etc. are another matter -- seems like iPod and email (and calendar?) seem to be the only apps w bg operation." - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Laura Scott (@lauras)
Re: New iPhone (Scripting News) -
"Damn, I logged into disqus and lost my comment.... iPod function will work for me on my 3G while I do other things, like check email. The music keeps playing when I click the "home" button. Is this a firmware thing? Are you running the latest? You should be able to check email while listening to your iPod. Pandora etc. are another matter -- seems like iPod and email (and calendar?) seem to be the only apps w bg operation." - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Laura Scott (@lauras)
"Damn, I logged into disqus and lost my comment.... iPod function will work for me on my 3G while I do other things, like check email. The music keeps playing when I click the "home" button. Is this a firmware thing? Are you running the latest? You should be able to check email while listening to your iPod. Pandora etc. are another matter -- seems like iPod and email (and calendar?) seem to be the only apps w bg operation." - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Dave Winer
Fantastic demo of journalist scapegoating of Google.
some interesting comments in there - and some fair points. Google has less interest in truth, transparency or openness than people think (i.e. they have none except where it is necessary due to market expectations), they are trying to own information as well as the means of finding information and accessing it - as well as our personal information. Facebook gets the slap for just... more... - Iphigenie
"A moment's thought must tell us that he is still right: newspapers are the only means of holding local hospitals, schools, councils and the police to account, and on a national level they are absolutely essential for the good functioning of democracy." Patent nonsense presented as established fact. orangebag's reply was spot on IMHO. - Jack&Cleo
It's important to remember that Google got into this position by beating long-established competitors by providing a better product, especially in search. They're also a commercial organisation and if openness and transparency gave them a commercial advantage, then they would be doing that. But, today, for Google, it doesn't. I would say that plenty of Google's products are open to being displaced, as long as you can provide a better product. - James Myatt
The columnist's arguments are based on mistaken beliefs of what Google does (or, as he claims, doesn't do) and what a monopoly is. Nuts! I blogged a more full (throated) response here: but the gist of it is this: Google's currency is relevance, and they can lose that as soon as someone comes up with something more relevant. Relevance is not a scarce commodity, like oil or television bandwidth. Anyway, thanks for the Tweet. Posting got my Sunday going! - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Laura Scott (@lauras)
Re: When Being Me is About Being You -
"Here's a perspective: "The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life" by Erving Goffman opens with an illustration why everybody is consciously or subconsciously adjusting their presentation to others, based upon context. It's the one book I saved from psych 101. I'll type in a paragraph: "When an individual enters the presence of others, they commonly seek to acquire information about him or to bring into play information about him already possessed. They will be interested in his general socio-economic status, his conception of self, his attitude toward them, his competence, his trustworthiness, etc. Although some of this information seems to be sought almost as an end in itself, there are usually quite practical reasons for acquiring it. Information about the individual helps to define the situation, enabling others to know in advance what he will expect of them and what they may expect of him. Informed in these ways, the others will know how best to act in order to call forth a..." - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Laura Scott (@lauras)
Re: When Being Me is About Being You -
"Here's a perspective: "The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life" by Erving Goffman opens with an illustration why everybody is consciously or subconsciously adjusting their presentation to others, based upon context. It's the one book I saved from psych 101. I'll type in a paragraph: "When an individual enters the presence of others, they commonly seek to acquire information about him or to bring into play information about him already possessed. They will be interested in his general socio-economic status, his conception of self, his attitude toward them, his competence, his trustworthiness, etc. Although some of this information seems to be sought almost as an end in itself, there are usually quite practical reasons for acquiring it. Information about the individual helps to define the situation, enabling others to know in advance what he will expect of them and what they may expect of him. Informed in these ways, the others will know how best to act in order to call forth a..." - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Laura Scott (@lauras)
Re: When Being Me is About Being You -
"Here's a perspective: "The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life" by Erving Goffman opens with an illustration why everybody is consciously or subconsciously adjusting their presentation to others, based upon context. It's the one book I saved from psych 101. I'll type in a paragraph: "When an individual enters the presence of others, they commonly seek to acquire information about him or to bring into play information about him already possessed. They will be interested in his general socio-economic status, his conception of self, his attitude toward them, his competence, his trustworthiness, etc. Although some of this information seems to be sought almost as an end in itself, there are usually quite practical reasons for acquiring it. Information about the individual helps to define the situation, enabling others to know in advance what he will expect of them and what they may expect of him. Informed in these ways, the others will know how best to act in order to call forth a..." - Laura Scott (@lauras)
Laura Scott (@lauras)
Re: When Being Me is About Being You -
"Here's a perspective: "The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life" by Erving Goffman opens with an illustration why everybody is consciously or subconsciously adjusting their presentation to others, based upon context. It's the one book I saved from psych 101. I'll type in a paragraph: "When an individual enters the presence of others, they commonly seek to acquire information about him or to bring into play information about him already possessed. They will be interested in his general socio-economic status, his conception of self, his attitude toward them, his competence, his trustworthiness, etc. Although some of this information seems to be sought almost as an end in itself, there are usually quite practical reasons for acquiring it. Information about the individual helps to define the situation, enabling others to know in advance what he will expect of them and what they may expect of him. Informed in these ways, the others will know how best to act in order to call forth a..." - Laura Scott (@lauras)
The 50 Most Influential Female Bloggers -
one day I'll get there... - Orli Yakuel
50 bloggers X 10000 twitter following requests.. twitter will be down soon :):) - Naor Mark
Somebody make sure Playboy doesn't see that list. - Eric Schlissel from twhirl
Boo...No Sarah Perez or Corvida. But congrats to the ones I do follow: Veronica Belmont, Gina Trapani, Emily Chang, Leah Culver, & Justine Ezarik. - Mark Krynsky
There's always a few missing on these lists (especially niche bloggers including the above ... Ann Smarty, and Shana Albert) but this is an incredibly good list (with descriptions). Well worth exploring! - Charlie Anzman
Ditto Mark, plus congrats to our Tamar, and Amber MacArthur as well (fan of her stuff as well) - finally a list of females in tech and blogging that doesn't involve "sexiest" or "nakedest." - Mark "Rizzn" Hopkins
no Perez Hilton? - Jamie
I added my mom in the comments: - Steve Garfield from twhirl
congrats veronica.... #33, 32.... top 10 soon? already topping twitter's right? - Pajama Domain
good list - sent to my blogger wife :) - mike "glemak" dunn
Could Perez Hilton handle all 140 characters? like, that's a lot! - Herb Myers
This was a great list. Added a few new blogs to Google Reader. - Sean Brady
What... no Cordiva? :-) - Andrew Dobrow
Well Female bloggers usually gets 'popularity' faster...but nice list. - Saad Kamal
hey where's SarahinTampa, Cordiva, Cyndy or Svetlana? - update list please! ;-) - Susan Beebe
I'm just happy its up for discussion. - Erin @queenofspain
Only heard of 3-4 of them, Veronica included :D but if they are there, it means they deserve it - Dan V from twhirl
I knew about 3/4s of the list and they absolutely deserve it. These are all great bloggers, well worth checking out. - Robert Scoble
congrats Veronica! - Kevin Rose
This reminds me that had I not given up on the first blog I started back in 98, maybe I'd be on this list. But I don't have the drive and passion these very worthy women have! Congrats to you, Veronica and all on the list! More importantly, keep doing what you do, because it is important and valuable. - Shawna Benson
What an impressive list! Quite a few I follow already, but nice to have some more to check out. - Sally Church
ok which one s/we get Playboy to cover ? Remember TC's post of late ? - Peter Dawson
Why does there have to be a separate list for most influential male/female bloggers? Why not just a list for the 50 or 100 most influential bloggers? Why the gender distinction? - Michael Tefft
After posting about the bikinibloggers of Urlesque & the wish for naked bloggers of Playboy at it was worthwile to pay some attention to influential female bloggers. Really influential, I'm talking about. But why do all these American sites pay so much atttention female bloggers, I wonder. So sudden, I mean. - Ton Zijp
whole story is suspect due to claim that blogging pair coined term "fugly" - WTF! :-) - Deva Hazarika
Andy, just that the attention is there so suddenly, in such a way that they all make a list (20 bloggers Urlesque wants to see in bikini, 9 Playboy wants to see naked, 50 really influential according to N x E). I follow news about weblogs worldwide, I publish about it daily, so for me it's really surprising that in just a few days all these sites are concentrating at female bloggers. I don't take conclusions on that, but it really surprises me. July = bikinimonth? Like Urlesque said? - Ton Zijp
I know a few, and have a few others in my rss reader. But this blog post is screaming for an OPML. - Laura Scott (@lauras) from Alert Thingy
nice resource, re: formatteddad's comment- as long as there is no bias or exclussion. anything that brings more voices to the conversation- the better! sometimes we need to identify the voices that might not be getting the BIG exposure. - michael sean wright
where's corvida? where's corvida? - Sarah Perez
Congratulations for making the list! - Jeff P. Henderson
@Sarah - I was looking for Corvida too! - Yolanda
What about Paige and Gretchen from MommyCast? They deserve to be on the list. - Barry Reicherter from twhirl
You go girls!! But where are the AFRICAN AMERICAN & HISPANIC & INDIA, etc bloggers. A little discriminating, don't ya think? - ChaCha Fance
Phil Glockner
Has FriendFeed been Giving Handouts to the Big Boys of Blogging? -
I specifically didn't select any of these people to be my default friends because I saw through the maneuver. I also don't think they're "all that", anyway. The rest of the sheep probably wet their pants when they joined and saw those people were already signed and wanted to be their friends - Dread Pirate PJ
But: if you leave on friend of friend after adding one or more of the Big Four (et al.), you're exposed to a pretty interesting group of folks and conversations. That's where I started when I joined FF and it's worked pretty well. - Steve Lowe from Alert Thingy
D PJ-So some transparency is in people's motives, not disclosure,eh? I agree with Steplow that subscribing to the noisy echo chamber usual suspects sometime results in interesting discovery via f of f's. - Mark Forman
just subscribed to Dread. - Robert Scoble
Yes, steplow makes a good point. You're better off following Scoble than some non-power-user when you're new to FF, because he's engaged in a ton of conversations and you'll just be exposed to more. Plus, one thing this post overlooks is that, though the Big Four get a lot of exposure when a new service like this launches, it's mainly exposure to the same group of people over and over again. Who here hadn't already heard about Calacanis or Arrington before joining FF? - Lon Harris from twhirl
So how come nobody's pissed off about Friendfeed not exposing your follow count, or other stats about your usage? You do realize by not publicly advertising how much you use Friendfeed over those impostors like Michael Arrington and Jason Calacanis, the MSM and everyone who isn't on Friendfeed (and even most people on Friendfeed) continues to think Arrington and Calacanis are the most influential members on Friendfeed, because the only data they have to go on is previous social network usage. - Mark Trapp
The recommended friends screen just illustrates the greater issue of the digital divide: the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. If you're an A-lister, all you need to do to maintain your influence is to merely have an account on Friendfeed. - Mark Trapp
Lon - good point. - Russellreno
One thought: so if the reason for following the Big 4 is the large range of discussions they supposedly get into, and we assume everyone is following the Big 4, how is this any different than just reading the "everyone" feed? QED: there is no reason to follow the Big 4 - Dread Pirate PJ from Alert Thingy
Mark I can see how many comments you have done. How many likes, too. And how many you are following. Only thing I can't see is how many followers you have but that is the least important metric of all these anyway. - Robert Scoble
Also, the Big 4 get into their discussions by following the "everyone" feed ;-) - Dread Pirate PJ from Alert Thingy
Why wouldn't they? If you owned FriendFeed you would do the same thing. - James Mowery from twhirl
Robert, you're already invested in Friendfeed. Take a newcomer, or take a journalist writing a piece about Friendfeed. They want a quick answer to "who are the movers and shakers on Friendfeed?" There are no global stats. So who do they ask? The people they asked for their Twitter, Facebook, etc. stories. This is such a non-issue. What do people think is going to happen? By randomizing the recommended list there's going to be a new A-list? - Mark Trapp
the everyone feed has too much noise for most people. I only am following 3,000 which is a very small percentage of who is on FF. I also only like items that are smart or geeky. - Robert Scoble
i think this whole kerfuffle about who is shown as default is overblown and wreaks of sour grapes - but i like robert's reaction above to subscribe to dread - made me go see who he was - dread is none other than pj cabrera, egc commenter extraordinaire - awesome, how'd i miss that - subscribed pj :) - mike "glemak" dunn
Anyway, I don't mean that Lon didn't have a good point; I have "met" a lot of good people and liked a lot of good stuff here because of F of a F. I just wish to dispell this myth of the benefit of following "big influential bloggers". Just do what they do: follow the "everyone" feed and get into a good discussion or two - Dread Pirate PJ from Alert Thingy
The Everyone feed is fun, but too unfocused to be really useful. I often get foreign-language posts and lots of repetition. If I follow an A-lister whose interests roughly align with mine, I'm going to get to see a lot of random, potentially interesting things I otherwise would not. Like it or not, the most active conversations tend to involve the Internet celebrities. It's just human nature. - Lon Harris from twhirl
Thanks for the subscribing, Scoble and Mike Dunn :-) - Dread Pirate PJ from Alert Thingy
Well, let me rectify a mistake: I do run the everyone feed by search and yahoo pipe filters to weed out content I am not likely to read. I can't read French, Arabian or Chinese, heh, so Unicode in the title is out, for example :-) - Dread Pirate PJ from Alert Thingy
To heck with"big-headed bloggers" I'd much rather follow rum drinking pirates that ride ruby's rails into hell anyday! - Mark Forman
I drink scotch and whiskey, rum if it's cheap ;-) - Dread Pirate PJ from Alert Thingy
I think FF should try to do a better job at recommending friends instead of pushing the same peeps you find on all networks. Finding interesting connections in FF really sucks and this 'feature' is definitely not the solution. - Alex Popescu
It always comes down to who's on the "A List". What do the women think? - Laura Scott (@lauras) from Alert Thingy
Figures....FriendFeed needs to do a lot of work on the recommended function...i.e. allow me to search by keywords, allow me to click on a "not interested" link next to Scoble's picture (kind of like Amazon recommendations) - Rob Neville from twhirl
Rob, that's exactly what I've been suggesting in the above comments. The current recommendation system looks a lot like pimping :-). - Alex Popescu
Rob, you can always Hide posts made by a Friend of a Friend you don't want to show in your feed. And if worse comes to worse, you can even block a user so that not even their comments show in your feeds. - Dread Pirate PJ
Maybe I'm missing something obvious (wouldn't be the first time LOL) but why am I following someone on FF only to hide heir posts? - Rob Neville
Ⓒⓗⓡⓘⓢ Ⓟⓘⓡⓘⓛⓛⓞ
I'm kinda getting pissed off that FriendFeed isn't reaching out to They got blocked again.
why do you think this happened? - iGerard
Amen, Chris. FF needs to keep its doors open, in order to be as successful as possible. - Brad @ The Next Web from twhirl
FriendFeed is getting stingy with themselves. Next thing you know, they'll disable their API - Outsanity
@Outsanity - I'm hoping they're smarter than that. If they do, it'll be a quick death, though hardly painless. - Brad @ The Next Web
Methinks someone should tell FriendFeed that is actually helpful to them and the ff community - Outsanity
Makes me wonder if they're having server overload issues or something, and trying to cut down on outside overhead. Still doesn't make much sense. Makes less sense for them to hold the cards and not tell us what's up. - Brad @ The Next Web
I don't understand why people use to push messages to Twitter, Jaiku, Pownce, etc. and then import ALL those accounts into FriendFeed. being blocked will only be a good thing for the community. - Pat Hawks
Yeah, I don't get it. Why not just ping one of the 40 services Friendfeed supports? - Mark Trapp
FriendFeed imports my Twitter stream just fine, with no help from - Pat Hawks
I'm with Pat on this. Although, it's a delicate situation... if some notices go everywhere and others are service specific. Aggregation (by exact string) would help this problem go away. - felix
Pat, by that response, you don't know what is. It's not there to solve a FriendFeed import issue - it's there as a notification tool for all networks, not just FriendFeed. FriendFeed is YASN. - Ⓒⓗⓡⓘⓢ Ⓟⓘⓡⓘⓛⓛⓞ
Kinda sitting on the fence here. Think @PatHawks is correct: seeing lots of pollution. Lots of needless push. - Barbara K. Baker
Oh, I've used and understand that it works well if you have some friends on Twitter and different friends on Jaiku, but FriendFeed can slurp up all these other services, negating the need for to repost everything here. - Pat Hawks
Chris, the central point is that when Friendfeed imports a good half-dozen of the services is already pinging to, do you really need to spam another service? - Mark Trapp
Now, if FriendFeed could filter out all the duplicates, then (or something similar) would fit right into the FF ecosystem. Imagine a multiple-in, multiple-out one stop shop for updating and monitoring all of your social services. - Pat Hawks
They were being rate limited. They had to be added to the whitelist. You can follow it on the mailing list - Bwana ☠
Mark, so you're suggesting I have to force all my Twitter, FaceBook, MySpace, etc. "friends" to follow me here?! Are you nuts!? - Ⓒⓗⓡⓘⓢ Ⓟⓘⓡⓘⓛⓛⓞ
Chris, I understand where you're coming from, but what is the advantage of "pinging" Twitter and FriendFeed instead of just importing your Twitter feed? (btw, thanks for that link, Bwana!) - Pat Hawks
The advantage is that my $SOCIAL_NETWORK-only friend will be able to read my status updates on that network without having to join FriendFeed. More importantly and to the point: since FF offers this type of access to their API then I should be able to use the services which wrap products around the functionality, regardless of how much sense, or lack thereof, it makes. - Scott Jarkoff
Chris, your Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, etc. friends are already receiving your updates via Your Friendfeed friends can receive your updates via Twitter or Brightkite or LinkedIn or Pownce or Jaiku or Tumblr or whatever else you're already pinging to that are already in Friendfeed. Why do you need to overload yet another service with your status updates? - Mark Trapp
Scott, I understand that I should be able to do anything on MY FriendFeed, regardless of how much sense it makes. I guess I just don't understand why some people are getting so worked up about not being able to post to Twitter AND FriendFeed when FriendFeed can import Twitter. - Pat Hawks
It boils down to this: I'd much rather post on a network in the network's native tongue. Hence, wanting to post a new update on FriendFeed as posted to FriendFeed, Twitter to Twitter, Pownce to Pownce, Jaiku to Jaiku, etc. Not Twitter to Pownce, Plurk to FriendFeed, or HooHaa to WackyDoodle. - Ⓒⓗⓡⓘⓢ Ⓟⓘⓡⓘⓛⓛⓞ
I'm definitely with Mark on this one. If I'm on Jaiku, BrightKite, Twitter - yadda yadda yadda, I'm going to have these service coming in FriendFeed. Why would I want to blast each of these services with "I'm getting ready to wash my hair and here's my blog post: http://..." and have the same thing show up several times here (this problem is already here)? Which one will my friends comment on? I understand, but the redundancy doesn't lend itself well to FF and I don't think that's FF's problem. - Vince DeGeorge
Mark, Pat, Vince - you still don't understand You're arguing a side in a discussion that isn't happening here. FriendFeed is NOT THE ONLY and ultimate destination for micro updates. - Ⓒⓗⓡⓘⓢ Ⓟⓘⓡⓘⓛⓛⓞ
Chris, while I'm not sure how much value there is in necessarily speaking a services native tongue, I respect that you don't use AND import your Twitter stream. Seriously, thank you. It's *those* people that really irritate me. - Pat Hawks
Chris, when you share something on Twitter, we see it here in addition to everyone seeing it on Twitter. The same goes for every other service. There's no difference between a Twitter share and any other share besides the icon to the left. When you share something to Friendfeed, the only destination of that message is to Friendfeed, which is the exact opposite of what you state you... more... - Mark Trapp
I have not used ping yet and some of the acronyms escape me but I am not why there is a need for more multi-posting. I am still experimenting with how not to bore all with some of my more mundane posts. - Mathew A. Koeneker from fftogo
Mark: again, you're not my only "friend" - and not all of my "friends" are on FriendFeed. Period. End of story. I don't know why you keep belaboring your position? You're assuming everybody is everywhere, and they're not. Moreover, I'm kinda annoyed when I see a Twitter 'response' show up in a FriendFeed post - with no leads, no idea what the tweet was responding to in the first place (nature of Twitter). - Ⓒⓗⓡⓘⓢ Ⓟⓘⓡⓘⓛⓛⓞ
Matthew - What makes you think we'll be bored? Some of us want to see it all. - Brent Newhall
Chris, that's exactly my point. Your friends are elsewhere. Friendfeed knows this. That's why it imports your activity from 41 other places you'd be on the internet. So why would you want to silo a discussion on Friendfeed by creating a post that can only be seen on Friendfeed? - Mark Trapp
You know what, forget it, you're totally right Chris. I just don't get it. - Mark Trapp
Brent: Thank you! I happen to be riding in that boat as well. Bring on the sea of information. :) - Mathew A. Koeneker
With that being said. FriendFeed has lifted our limits to create mass chaos. Enjoy. -
Aggregation overlap is a natural result of having these services pop up piecemeal. I am not using FF like I did 2 months ago. I only this past weekend looked at some others I've joined over the past year or so. Man, if I'm not careful, I could have a perpetual loop of messages, round and round, in a real mashup. I'm sure there are squelch gateway logic objects to prevent that, but jeez! - Laura Scott (@lauras) from Alert Thingy
I was wondering why my pings weren't getting through. :( - Chris Nixon
Charlie Anzman
Don't worry about gas prices, COFFEE prices are down so far today!
whew! - Thomas Hawk
Not if you want milk in your coffee. Milk prices shot up this weekend. - Matt Donders
milky coffee: neutral - Ivan Pope from twhirl
Give me a gallon of Sumatran espresso and I know I'd be good for 34 miles! - Laura Scott (@lauras) from Alert Thingy
My white mochas haven't moved ;( - xero
I get free coffee at work but this is all around good news :) - Shey
Coffee is yay! \o/ - Bwana ☠
Somebody tell D&D this, I am still paying $2.35 for an extra large :) - Mike Fruchter
I too get free coffee at work and I don't even drink that. But I get free tea too, which I do drink. - Morton Fox
Best news I've heard all day! - Brandon Wood
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This is a terrible idea. It may save on gas, but it will make things take forever to be shipped from one part of the country to another. - pcnerd37
Does it include travel by air??? :) - Ben Metcalfe
My car gets better mileage at 80mph than at 40mph. More would be saved by requiring traffic engineers to time traffic lights to *not* stop you at every intersection. - Laura Scott (@lauras) from Alert Thingy
Ⓒⓗⓡⓘⓢ Ⓟⓘⓡⓘⓛⓛⓞ
Removing my Twitter stream from my FriendFeed stream. Why? supports posting directly to FriendFeed now. :) Social networks, untied.
WOOOHOOO! Exactly what I've been waiting for! - Brad @ The Next Web
Great. Now we can't hide your Twitter updates without also hiding your FF updates. There's a trade-off for everything! :-) - Josh Bancroft
I gotta get an invite /code to Anyone have any? Let me know at evanstj (at) gmail. - Tim from Alert Thingy
@Tim - Tell them to use beta code "pingyoulater" so they can get in on the beta action! - Brad @ The Next Web
Josh, I don't think you understand - I've completely removed my Twitter account link from here to keep from reposting the same stuff unnecessarily. This makes things better for everyone, not worse. is becoming an indispensable "native updates" tool. If you use both Twitter and FriendFeed, you need to use to post the same thing to both places (and then, potentially remove Twitter from FriendFeed). - Ⓒⓗⓡⓘⓢ Ⓟⓘⓡⓘⓛⓛⓞ
Can I ask sort of a dumb question as I try to to unify my online world? I can see how will help me send the same message to various networks, but how are most of you then reading all the responses afterwards? Aren't we stuck having to go to six different networks to read all the various and separate responses? - Neil Kramer
I've been waiting for this as well. Awesome! - Joanmarie
Chris, I understand what does, and what you're doing. Partly, I'm giving you a hard time. And partly, I'm making the argument that Twitter is just as good a "native updates" tool - a place to write - as This is why I love FriendFeed - I don't have to care, and be on the same tool, to get updates. Let us know how it goes! - Josh Bancroft
Neil, I don't think that's a dumb question -- mainly because I've been asking it myself lately. :-) Maybe we need a reverse to get all of those updates in one place. I've considered using friendfeed to make a bunch of "imaginary friends" to add their services, but that will take a long time. So.... I dunno.... It is an issue. - Joanmarie
Whoooooooo! FTW! - Joe
Thanks! I just did the same. The other thing I just did was to remove Tumblr from -- I'm going to use Tumblr primarily for images, video and audio and put them and an occasional text post there directly. So far everything is making it across as I want it to Facebook too. I have the and Tumblr apps installed there. It was a bit wacko figuring out how to glue everything... more... - Jeff Evans
i had already removed twitter from ff - rocks! - Dieter Schwarz
What is ... Ah, got it. - Ansgar Wollnik
What web page or app (for OS X, Ubuntu, & Windoze) reads all I'm following on Twitter, FF and ? Facebook I can do direct. - Jeff Evans
Agree ... but haven't figured out a good SIMPLE way to reply to a "tweet" using ... FF comments stay "in house" - Christopher Perry
Not bad reply tweet in friendfeed,twitter is also a social web service. - Chris Qie
I'm trying the same thing, but now I have to browse my microblog sites (twitter, pownce, sites manually in order to see replies. Unless I take the time to bring in all my friends to FF. - Bill Bittner
My name is Bwana, and I approve this message - Bwana ☠
I didn't add FriendFeed to Ping.FM, only Twitter. I guess it is the reverse situation, but works. - David Risley
Nice so doing this - adolfo foronda
so just a sec, does that mean no more responding via friendfeed to twitter if everyone does this? We'd have to visit both sites no? - Zee.
I thought everybody likes FF cause you can interact with everything here. how do you interact with twitter from FF if your twitter is not incorporated? (that said, I am considering removing twitter from FF myself but for entirely different reasons.) - Sebastian Keil
Why? What's wrong with just importing Twitter? - Pat Hawks
I find myself not bothering with (as cool as it is) simply because its write-only. - Hal Rottenberg from twhirl
FriendFeed should work within again, but no word from FriendFeed as to what happened - and if it'll get blocked again. I don't know anybody at FriendFeed. - Ⓒⓗⓡⓘⓢ Ⓟⓘⓡⓘⓛⓛⓞ
Great tip! - Mark Nassal
umm... like "one ping to rule them all"? - Laura Scott (@lauras) from Alert Thingy
fantastic tip! I just did the same! Done and done! - Jeff McCord from twhirl
FF is working from at this time, but there is a disclaimer... - Robert
How are you guys getting your stuff into FF at this point? - Robert
Well, finally a reason to use my account. I'm going to give this a shot. :) - Dennis Jackson
Posting to FF via does not seem to be working after a couple tests. Sad. Must be the rate limit thing. Hope it comes back. - Dennis Jackson
That sucks... They changed there message and said they were working to bring it back... - Robert
friendfeed shares usually include something 'useful' whereas twitter is something to be filtered out more times than not. in removing your friend feed and replacing it by being posted 'directly' into the system you reduced the value of your ff shares. - Nicole Simon
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