Recently my cousin's head was run over by a car. This is what's left of her helmet. My cousin completely survived because of this helmet. Please think of this before riding a bike without a helmet next time!
This happened to a friend of mine at the beginning of the month. He didn't do so good in the accident, but the helmet obviously saved his life. Thankfully is on his way home tomorrow: http://www.caringbridge.org/visit...
- Steve Lacey
I used to ride my bike without the helmet even though it is mandatory in Chennai, India. But after reading this I am not even going to the next street in my bike without helmet.
- Sudar
I never wear a helmet. When hearing things like this, I always think of this article.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1.... In the Netherlands no one wears a helmet. It seems safe to me.
- Peter Stuifzand
I was hit while riding to work in summer 2006 & did not want anyone to touch my helmet at all costs. If my brain was scrambled, I did not want anyone to touch my egg:) I highly recommend a helmet especially if you think you will not need one! Mine was almost the same color too & manufacturer, but there is no conspiracy there:)
- Roney Smith
Bicyclists/motorcyclists that don't wear helmets are better called future organ donors
- Brian Sullivan
Thanks for sharing. I ride often at traffic time between cars. always wear my helmet...itsg good to know that It does work :)
- jonathan
from twhirl
Wow, glad to hear your friend is doing well after that. I agree, helmets save lives. Regardless, I've many intentional close-calls by drivers who don't want to share the road. Unfortunately, this is the common attitude where I live (southern US).
- pete
we wear helmets for everything: mtb, snowboarding, wakeboarding, skateboarding & even surfing - skulls are fragile why not put a protective layer around it (i also try real hard to not ride on streets - a high percentage of drivers are oblivious to bike riders)...
- mike "glemak" dunn
I always ride in my helmet and stay to bike lanes as much as possible. Nice to know the safety tools work. Now, if I can just avoid that NYPD cop with a penchant for knocking people off their bikes. Hopefully, he won't transfer to LAPD.
- Jason Toney
Peter Stuifzand, my cousin would be dead if she did not wear her helmet. That article is BS. Wear your helmet!
- Jesse Stay
from twhirl
Point blank. You are a moron if you ride without a helmet. Sorry, but that's true and you're just going to play into Darwinian theory should you continue to ride without one. Any 'real' cyclist (e.g - you've been hit by a car - and yes, I have been) will tell you this without reservation. Helmets work without a doubt.
- AJ Kohn
I survived a nasty motorcycle crash in my youth and would also be dead without that helmet - which cracked in 2 like an egg (that would have been my head, as the nurse aptly put it!).
- Susan Beebe
A friend who's a cop refers to motorcycles as donorcycles whenever she sees someone riding without a helmet. I figure that applies for bicycles, too.
- ha3rvey (Hugs 50% off!)
I was on the way to work Monday morning while it was raining, when the third car in front of me spun out of control and flipped twice into a ditch. When I pulled over to help her out she was just fine. She only had a scratch on her left shoulder from the broken window and was not hurt anywhere else. THE REASON: She was wearing her seat belt. It's nice to hear that these devices are actually helping us!
- David Cook
Wow! I wear mine! Didn't for years - I was lucky I guess. Thanks for posting that!
- matthew hunt
OMG... Jesse, do you have a link other than here on FF? I have friends whose kids refuse to wear theirs, and seeing this may help.
- Cyndy
If it's nice enough to ride, I probably won't be bothering with the human-powered bike any longer. I always wear a helmet on my gas-powered bike.
- MiniMage, enterRUPPted
As long as we won't have mountains, we Dutch will not wear those things. Otherwise we won't be able to recognise the tourists on bikes.
- Ton Zijp
Thanks for sharing - I had a mishap with a car, wasn't wearing a helmet at the time, was lucky. If they don't see you, it doesn't matter either way. Wear the helmet!
- Rick Bucich
This isn't as extreme as this but when I fell off my bike onto a sidewalk and broke my arm, I thought I was fine for a while. Later, my dad noticed that the whole front of my helmet was all scratched up and the visor in front was torn off! I realized that if I wasn't wearing my helmet on the 2 minute trip down the road, I probably wouldn't be typing this comment right now! Not that I'd be dead but I would have suffered some head damage, limiting my ability to do most things.
- Kevin Lyons
Helmets for cyclists are mandatory in Australia. Still gives me the shudders when I'm travelling and see bareheaded bicyclists on the roads.
- Kate Foy
OK, I now know what my Halloween costume is... "on Friday at a hotel in Palo Alto, Calif., a pair of Bigfoot hunters say they will present what they contend is the most definitive proof yet of an animal that science says does not exist: DNA evidence and photographs of a dead specimen they say they found in a remote swath of woods in northern Georgia."
- Steve Rubel
from Bookmarklet
“I’m not asking anyone to believe us,” Mr. Dyer said. “I’m just asking them to sit and watch, because you’re going to eat your words.” - WOW. I'd like to eat my words. Nom!
- AJ Batac :)
@John you HAVE to live blog or twitter - hey i've been working on this story for days since my daughter got on a bigfoot craze BEFORE the people up the road actually found him. Or a costume resemblance thereof. "RickMat" as they call him. http://searchingforbigfoot.com/
- jeneane sessum
"Wolfram has discouraged comparisons between his new site and Google, insisting each serves different purposes. But that doesn't make any sense; you'll use both sites to look up stuff you don't know, so it's irresistible to compare the two. On a side-by-side test, Google wipes the floor with Wolfram Alpha. Using the search engine, I found life expectancy information for California and Kansas, the murder rate in South Africa and Baltimore, M.I.A.'s album sales, economic data for San Francisco, and the top speed of a Veyron: 253 mph. When you ask Google how many calories you'd burn on various sports, you find this page on NutriStrategy.com, which lists caloric measures for all those activities and dozens more, including playing drums, horse grooming, and raking the lawn. That example illustrates the difficulty Wolfram faces in trying to match Google. Much of the data that we look for online aren't found in formal, structured tables like the CIA Factbook. Even Wikipedia misses mountains...
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- Paul Buchheit
from Bookmarklet
When I met with Microsoft's search team a couple weeks ago, they said most of tech media covers search engines "wrong". So I have held off on giving this a full spin, but I've been quite underwhelmed with the tests so far. Why should it be so difficult to determine what is the right kind of query and the wrong kind? Why should I feel like it's user error when the product doesn't easily define what it is supposed to do?
- Louis Gray
I disagree, I think this is a great tool for research-based searches but not so great for trying to find a specific item
- mjc
It still doesn't seem like a search engine to me. And it's actually hard to define what is and, specially, how to use it.
- arnaldostream
@Michael, inspecific research is almost an oxymoron
- Count Caturday
Yes but can google divide the amount of calories burnt playing drums by the weight of a slinky and provide the output in joules per slug-fortnight?
- Mitch
"That example illustrates the difficulty Wolfram faces in trying to match Google" --- a complete straw man, disingenuous and foreshadowed by the opening commentary. Who said Wolfram was trying to match, or even play in the same game as, Google?
- Isaac Hepworth
His test queries were very similar to the Wolfram demo queries though. I ran into the same thing -- it seemed like a cool idea, but I couldn't get it to actually give me any interesting answers even though I tried to construct problems that it should be good at.
- Paul Buchheit
The most succinct response to this question that I've heard comes from Tim O'Reilly: "Why are you asking Wolfram Alpha questions that would be answered by a search engine. Kind of like using excel as a word processor" (http://twitter.com/timorei...)
- DeWitt Clinton
@Alex, I didn't say nonspecific research. what I meant was if you are looking for a specific piece of content, wolfram alpha doesn't have a big enough index yet. if you are however looking for data on a subject that doesn't have to be from a specific piece of content (eg, plotting/solving equations, data about persons or trends...) then you will likely do very well with alpha. it's of course not as mature as google yet though. don't knock it until you've used it for a math course!
- mjc
DeWitt, I agree with the idea of it being something else, and like the concept, but it just doesn't work very well for me. Have you actually gotten anything useful out of it? (not using a suggested search, but one you thought of yourself)
- Paul Buchheit
Criticism is easy. Innovation is hard.
- Gregg Scott
I wouldn't think of Alpha as a search engine any more than I would consider Wikipedia to be one.
- Gabe
wolfram alpha is much closer to public semantic data and querying platforms such as freebase than to search engines like google
- Mike Chelen
Gabe: further innovation exists in mathematic queries and comparison to wikipedia is apt because of integrated data set
- Mike Chelen
You need to use your imagination a little bit to grasp that the comparison of life expectancies in all US states, or all countries in the world, is really within the reach of Wolfram|Alpha, even if "it doesn't know, *just now*, what to do with your input", when you ask it about these things. Same remark about homicide rates. Sure, those may not be easy numbers to get at for some...
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- François Dongier
Paul: practical usage similar to online spreadsheets, for calculation of frequent tasks such as finding equations by regression http://bit.ly/18FZD7
- Mike Chelen
I get the concept Deepak, but was that an actual query for something you wanted to know, or a demo of Wolfram? My question remains, has anyone actually used it to answer an actual question they had? When I tried (something about the mass of oxygen in a 20cm sphere), it didn't answer. I go to go to Google for answers. I go to Wikipedia for answers. I could go to Wolfram for answers. In that sense, they all compete.
- Paul Buchheit
@Paul -- in response to have I gotten something useful out of it? -- no, nothing other than a contrived query for weather data (http://www16.wolframalpha.com/input...) that I heard would work well (it did). But I don't see that as a failing of Alpha. I don't use Excel much either, and never Mathematica. But I do know what they're good for, and if I ever needed a spreadsheet or a computational software I'd know where to turn. I'm fine with Alpha being designed for a specific need.
- DeWitt Clinton
Google (and Wikipedia of course) were in a much less advanced state than Alpha when they launched.
- François Dongier
I agree that it could be very useful as "Mathematica on the web", but the demo video and other hype made it out to be much more. Hopefully it will get better though -- I do like the concept of what they are trying to do.
- Paul Buchheit
Forget the hype, think for yourself. Alpha is Mathematica 7, 8, 9 on the web.
- François Dongier
I think the underlying thread in this thread, as it were, is that we want to believe in something innovative and new, but we are frustrated as to how we are expected to modify our behavior to work around its limitations (intended or otherwise).
- Louis Gray
It's qlpha, right? Let it go through beta and then full release--and then if it doesn't execute mathematical computations go ahead and dismiss it.
- Gregg Scott
So you're waiting for WolframBeta Gregg? :)
- Paul Buchheit
Yes! Gmail is still in beta after 5 years. I don't think it was intended for widespread use by non-academics anyway. It's machinery is for researchers, mathematicians and scientists. We should always support the innovators. Remember those black and white Apple ads?
- Gregg Scott
Raise your hand if you use Google or Yahoo to search the web. Keep your hand up if you think Alpha is overrated. Now put your hand down if you *don't* use Mathematica or NumPy or Maple or Matlab on a regular basis. How many hands are still in the air?
- DeWitt Clinton
Gregg, do you think the media coverage was an accident, and that they only intended for academics to use it?
- Paul Buchheit
When Alpha (or Beta) will incorporate some simple logical reasoning ability, its applicability and overall usefulness will explode.
- François Dongier
Paul. I don't know about their media strategy. I do know that tech journalism loves a new story so they may have inflated expectations by misunderstanding it's application. Or that could've been WA's marketing mistake. I heard Leo's interview with Paul Wolfram and I didn't get that he believes this is an app for the masses at all.
- Gregg Scott
Paul, WA may be guilty of inhabiting that bubble that all of us who love new technology inhabit by thinking that all the world is just like ourselves. It's a niche but potentially very powerful application. I think over time it will become more non-academic friendly. I could be totally wrong. Of course.
- Gregg Scott
It didn't help that Doug Lenat gave a ringing endorsement. :)
- Ray Cromwell
Comparing Google to WA is like comparing a cell phone to a graphing calculator.
- Gregg Scott
Search engines always have this problem where you don't know their domain coverage exactly. If you don't like the results, are you asking the question wrong, or does it not have the answer? Even Google has this problem, but when you can't tell who has what, you end up always using the search engine with the broadest coverage -- which is Google right now.
- ⓞnor
What I would like from WA is a nice hierarchical directory of all the data they have broken down by subject area. Their directory of examples is close, but isn't quite authoritative enough. That way I could really get my head around what they have. A well-curated set of general data banks with a good calculation engine on top seems like it could be really useful, especially if they make it possible for the community to participate in the data curation process. But it's not a search engine.
- ⓞnor
The thing which seems to be missed by a lot of people is that Google has a pretty decent "computation engine" right now. See, for a useless example http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub... vs http://www30.wolframalpha.com/input... Obviously Google isn't exposing many entities ("facts") to it now, but the possibilities are pretty clear (See Google Squared...)
- Nick Lothian
Wolfram|Alpha reviews seem to be a very interesting litmus test... there are those that grok the concept who may be disappointed by what it delivers - in this very early incarnation - but they don't write off the ideal. Those that don't grok it end up comparing the service directly to the Google in one way or another (often while proclaiming that they aren't) and write off the company...
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- David HC Soul
I think the underlying thread in this thread, as it were, is that we want to believe in something innovative and new, but we are frustrated as to how we are expected to modify our behavior to work around its limitations (intended or otherwise). - Louis Gray -- Think so too. I tried lots of things for kicks and was unable to get to anything really interesting, I had to look elsewhere for...
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- Zu from AOD
I agree with François. It is just "Mathematica on the web". And only this "mathimatica" part of the system works well. Other parts are data integration/inference and NLP they both are unsolved problems now. Wolfram|Alpha does not propose any new solution to these problems. It uses state-of-the-art methods and as result it does not work.
- Maxim Grinev
Nor: http://reference.wolfram.com/mathema... gives a good idea of the currently available datasets. Clearly incomplete. The interesting question is whether making it complete enough to be useful is or not realistic.
- François Dongier
From what's new in Mathematica-7: http://reference.wolfram.com/mathema... , the fun exercise is to imagine what new computable datasets will be included in future versions. Things could go very fast if the community contributes.
- François Dongier
Most of my searches,questions and answers are on Twitter and FriendFeed based on my trusted friends(experts).Main trend.
- Igor Poltavskiy
The data representation is great but the problem is that Wolfram expects the user to learn about it instead of it trying to learn about the user
- Kiran Patchigolla
I see Wolfram Alpha more as a competitor to Wikipedia than Google. The media are the ones who are pitching Wolfram Alpha as a Google competitor, yet they are the same ones that are saying that it can't compete... crazy.
- Stuart Maxwell
I hope the arrival of Wolfram Alpha will make Google start asking themselves the question "are we infallible." And I wouldn't be surprised if, in the near future, Google would begin paying more attention to how it presents what it emits. WA's one big and DISTINCTIVE advantage over typical search engine's output, is that it attempts to enhance and embellish the flow in graphically-palatable chunks (even though they've gotten few things wrong, and abuse small type in graphics-tables far too much).
- ianf ⌘
Has anyone tried searching for "swine flu"
- Peter Stuifzand
It is not "a great tool for research-based searches" even because it does not provide references to the sources where the answer was taken
- Maria Grineva
Wolfram Alpha is a good first attempt at building a computational knowledge engine, but it needs to massively expand its database to become useful and appealing for most people. It is still a demo, a tantalizing taste of things to come, not a fully realized product. At a minimum, it needs to convert all the facts in Wikipedia into a computational format.
- Sean McBride
"Maria - it does not provide references to the sources", yes it does, clik "source information"
- Anders
Sean: Wikipedia data could easily be imported through DBpedia right? Haven't heard much about how to bring data from the RDF web (LOD) into Alpha, but that should be relatively easy. The hard part is what to do with it, as long as Alpha doesn't do logical reasoning. Maybe the best way of merging the two would be to extract RDF from the web of data through a SPARQL query, send the data to Alpha's API and have it return some useful interpretation of that data.
- François Dongier
Compare Google and Wolfram Alpha for searches on the population of Pakistan: 1. search[Google; pakistan population http://www.google.com/#q=paki...] 2. search[Wolfram Alpha; pakistan population http://www46.wolframalpha.com/input...] The Wolfram result is more elegant and directly informative -- but takes quite a long time to produce.
- Sean McBride
I like the concept, but I see two major flaws that need to be addressed. The first is probably easy: You can't, afaict, compare two disparate data sets over time (can you get it to give you a graph of russian gdp vs crude oil price?). The second is that they're asking for "curators" to help shepherd new data sets, but they don't seem to make them publicly available in raw form. I'm not going to volunteer to maintain their private database.
- Joel Webber
Sean: Actually I don't really mind Alpha taking a long time to produce its answer, I even seem to enjoy it... Feels like watching the machine thinking, trying to guess what sort of calculation and graphs it will come up with :-)
- François Dongier
I'm curious how long it would take google to approximate pi to a million decimal places... Mathematica 6 did it on my x2 3800+ w/ 2gb ram in about 8 seconds. Alas, 2gb of ram was not enough to approximate it to a billion decimal places :(
- LarchOye
I think that Farhad Manjoo just wanted to create buzz with this header. It's no sense to compare Google and Wolfram|Aplha. Its like comparing Word and Corel. They can do some same things, but would you use Word to create a graphic? Would you use Corel to write long text? I would use Google to see what food is good for me, and I would use WA to calculate a sum of its calories. If WA weren't any good, Google would not be showing us some of its not-working search experiments lately.
- Pablo Yamamoto
Pablo summed it up pretty well. Besides WA just launched a couple of days ago and as the users themselves its still in a learning phase. I just wish i had an iphone + WA back in school during all my horrible maths exams lol
- Pretty Monkey Studio
I'm not listening to anyone's take on Alpha who isn't a Mathematica user. The rest of you tech journalists can go find something else to hype.
- Mr. Gunn
FD: the problem with WA often taking so long to fully display its results: I'll wager that many users move on to another web page without realizing that they've seen only partial results.
- Sean McBride
If WA still processes results "behind the window" after first showing them to the user without indicating it explicitly, then this is clearly a design error.
- ianf ⌘
hmm... do you always stop thinking after answering a question?
- François Dongier
at least they don't have the deletionist cabal ruining it for everyone.
- Jon
No, François, but I look extra pensive to indicate more may be coming. Anyway, comparing lifeless computer output to a human answer is taking anthropomorphizing one step too far.
- ianf ⌘
Thx, reading this article an thread give me some insights of the usefulness and reach of this tool
- Luis Enrique León
Convention is scary-powerful. We're so used to putting our strings of text into a box and clicking Search that we assume everything with a box and a go button are Google. WolframAlpha seems to be a different beast entirely, and I don't envy the creator(s) in trying to describe what it does. That's not to say it'll catch on if it fails to answer questions, because I believe the majority of people are too lazy to tailor what they ask, to the style that suits the oracle.
- Rick Cogley
Stephen Wolfram himself put it best, I think, in his interview with Leo the other day. He said basically that it's going to take some time for people to get used to the kinds of questions that WolframAlpha is going to be good at answering. And I have to add to that, over time the people on that project will discover and add new data sources to the engine, and come up with new techniques...
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- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
That said, I thought this was a poor article, written by someone who really didn't try to understand the project. "Wolfram has discouraged comparisons between his new site and Google, insisting each serves different purposes. But that doesn't make any sense; you'll use both sites to look up stuff you don't know, so it's irresistible to compare the two" Wrong. It's just irresistible to...
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- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
Rob: I agree with your conclusion (poor article). The structure of the argument is this: 1. Alpha is an answering engine, not a search engine. 2. Alpha does not answer most of our questions (although answers are on the web). Therefore: Alpha is not a good search engine.
- François Dongier
I agree with Pablo, besides its good to see inventive new services, I will try to get benefit of it instead of comparing to Google. Like I was doing to Google when using Altavista.
- Jacque
I like the new service. I can compute my motgage very easily with it.
- Derek Wei
There is one thing wrong with WA: I dont want to be trained to use a search engine.
- Burcu Dogan
But you've already been trained by your experience to know how to ask Google a question, and get the answers you seek. Why should a different tool be any different? For that matter, don't you need training to use any kind of tool? (even self-training)
- guruvan (Rob Nelson)
"So here goes. It’s terrible. Biblically terrible. Possibly the worst new car money can buy. It’s the first car I’ve ever considered crashing into a tree, on purpose, so I didn’t have to drive it any more."
- Simon
from Bookmarklet
Bear in mind that it's Jeremy Clarkson, who is not the most subtle, even-minded or cerebral of chaps :)
- Simon
Yeah, I don't understand how he berates the *concept* of a CVT. Civic's had it as an option (the HX) for years, and there's one in every Prius. Maybe the implementation is bad in the Insight. I hate to say it but while I love and respect Honda, I'm happy to see the Insight flop because I feel like they did a real cmd-C cmd-V with the design. It looks like a Prius. Be original, Honda.
- Kevin Fox
Kevin: I think the Prius was just a 4-door version of the original Insight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...), so I don't think it's Honda's fault they look similar. And the two cars have very different CVTs -- the Prius has a planetary gearset with motors and engine connected to different parts; the Insight has a simple variable-diameter pulley system (http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclo...).
- Gabe
guy hates the Tesla, the Prius, and now the Insight? Shocker. what *does* he like? Alfa Romeos. apparently he can't be arsed if it doesn't leak Castrol from the dashboard.
- Karim
Gabe, thanks for the info about the Prius transmission. I own one and I didn't know that. That said, I don't agree about the Prius design leveraging the Insight's. The 2004 Prius was a pretty big departure, yet the 2006 Civic cribbed the Prius's snub plow nose, and the new Insight took its A-pillar, sub-A pillar, B-pillar, and C-pillar. The side-view is remarkably similar, differing...
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- Kevin Fox
Kevin: from what I read Honda did do independent testing and came to (nearly) the same design as the Prius. Should they sacrifice Cd and thus MPG just to make it not look like a Prius? Also consider yourself Honda trying to compete in the market that the Prius is currently dominating. When people think "hybrid" they actually usually think of the Prius; so if you want people to think of...
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- Benjamin Golub
Oh, it's Clarkson. I won't even bother reading the review.
- Paul Grav
Ben: Car companies have been making low-drag-coefficient cars for decades, and the Prius looked awfully different. The original Insight had a lower drag coefficient than the current Prius and doesn't look much like it, so I'm skeptical that Honda's mathematical models suddenly spit out a Prius. I agree that Honda probably sought to leverage off the Prius design because the profile has...
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- Kevin Fox
I get 256kbps here. They call it *broadband*. I'm on an unlimited connection as well. I wonder for what the heck they don't give us better speeds.
- Shankar Ganesh
~750 mi is really too much. Could not you find a nearer ISP?
- Alp
Yeah it was in Lahore, Pakistan. Its nearer but had a ping of 500+ ms!
- Rahul Das
just checked it now and i hit a 1.28 Mb/s d/w http://www.speedtest.net/result... .. but its usually slower.. on top of that i think my ISP is throttling during unlimited hours
- Azeem
Comparing this to what we had two years back, this is awesome. Imagine we using the web on a 28 kbps connection !! We used to. We are getting better and better with the internet and the pipes.'
- Aravind Jose
@Aravind: I remember dial up. Used to take me half an hour to download 3MB! Plus the phone bills were legendary!
- Rahul Das
They are now known as Liquid Comics, although they don't sell anything in India.
- vimoh
I would love to see the anime it looks like to could be hot
- Clarence Coggins
This story is being made into a movie (in Hollywood) and is slated for release next year.
- vimoh
Yeah Liquid Comics bought out Virgin Comics but they haven't done any publishing yet. As for the Indian market, there's no point in buying comics here as most places just sell them randomly and one would be hard pressed to collect a series. At least when Gotham comics used to sell, we had some order but now even they have stopped.
- Rahul Das
Hello India! Facebook Now Available In Local Languages of Almost 1B More People (Marshall Kirkpatrick/ReadWriteWeb) - http://www.techmeme.com/090507...
Yea, in Vista, his eyes don't flash.
- Will Higgins™
i'm ready to take vista off the laptop. and by "I", i mean josh. i'm not a geek, but i can't get anything done... except friendfeed. so my laptop is diminished to a really expensive toy. simply will not do.
- Trish Haley
I dunno, I've been running Vista on my lil' MSI Wind and it works fine. Granted I don't run anything besides Thunderbird, Firefox and Digsby on it.
- ronin
Vista has Stalin, instead of Hitler, and his eyes just have a dull, cold look...
- Seth Greenblatt
ROFL! Too good :-D The image title-text has the disclaimer btw.
- vijay
This makes me laugh out loud and Ive read it about four tiems already ahah
- Mona Nomura
Me too! :-D ** There's no UI? No, just Hitler ** ROFL!
- vijay
Erin! Hey Vijay! :) @Ryo - did you tweak it first? (BTW this is a joke. It's supposed to be funny!)
- Mona Nomura
Saeba, have you considered using Linux instead? Most have Firefox and Thunderbird built-in, and I'm pretty sure you'd get much better performance. I would recommend it.
- Will Higgins™
Only someone who's never seen OS X or tried to connect to a non-Vista-likey router can be confused about why people bash it.
- Cyndy
Hi Mona! Thanks for the awesome updates on the Pre. (sorry about the off-topic comment)
- vijay
does this mean that the comic is godwin'd? or is this threat godwin'd from the offset?
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
Vijay - my feed was SO much fun today. I think all my non-techie FF freinds were annoyed, though haha
- Mona Nomura
from IM
@Cyndy I have used both. I'm still confused. Vista sp2 runs fine for me. I like both OS's. I really don't see why OSX people get such a hard on from bashing Vista. . .
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
Jason, have you tried connecting that Vista machine to, say, a non-Linksys or Netgear router? They try to hide so much from the user that if you want to deviate from their cookie-cutter set-up it's way more trouble than F-disking and putting XP on from an old CD.
- Cyndy
@Jason - I'm not an OSX person, and I still bash Vista. I used Vista for over a year, and then I went back to XP. I just couldn't take it anymore.
- Will Higgins™
@Cyndy I'm running Vista SP2 connected to a Netgear router with the OS reflashed to tomato. I guess, it helps that I've been using computers since 1984, so I've got half a brain for this stuff. Maybe for a regular end user it's more difficult. I had the OS figured out in less then an hour. But then, I've grown up on DOS, Windows, Debian, Linux, OS/2, NextOS, etc. so, this seemed like cake.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
vijay, i hate UAC the most. I know I can disable it, but my company sells products bundled with default install of Vista, and I have to support that. :(
- imabonehead
Yes, Jason, that MUST be it. I'm just a git, right? It shouldn't take me an HOUR to figure out an OS. That's the point of it being an OS. And FYI, I was coding BASIC on a Trash-80 before you were even born, so you can lose the condescending attitude.
- Cyndy
Okay people breathe a little, it's just a comic
- Justin Yost
O snap, geek fight! Poor usability aside, Vista does hog epic resources, and STILL has compatibility issues. It's got some good features too, like breadcumbed navigation, but the positives don't outweigh the negatives.
- Will Higgins™
LOL. I was born in 74 and wrote BASIC on a TRS-80 Model 4 and PC-100. so who knows. and excuse my attitude please. I'm up a bit late. my point is, for an average end user it might be difficult. I don't think you could take a new user and put them in front of OSX and have them working it like a pro in under an hour. there's going to be things they don't know. anyway, it doesn't pay to...
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- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
The funny thing is, Linux has it's own implementation of UAC. which is why you're required to use sudo to do some things. :)
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
Please don't take this the wrong way, but if your seeing lots of UAC prompts then there's something very broken with the software your running. You shouldn't see any more UAC prompts under Vista then a Leopard user gets admin password requests. The problem has been a lot of developers took the 'easy' way out and just marked their apps as 'require elevation' rather then making them behave correctly.
- Russ
Jason, the point I'm making is that I don't care WHO you are. If you have a router that isn't one of the two "Vista-compatible" brands, Vista tells you that you can't connect to the Internet. WTF is that about? The average user is going to be pissed that the router they got free with the rebate at Staples doesn't work, and the non-average user is going to be pissed at the hoops that have to be jumped through to get under the hood. Now, OS X, I pull my Mac out of the box, I boot it up, and Airport finds me..
- Cyndy
I agree. many of the problems with windows can be tracked back to drivers and sloppy coding.
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl
...every broadcasting network in range. It doesn't care what BRAND it is. As an average user, I get right online to play Scrabulous on Facebook and download pr0n. As a non-average user, I get to annoy others on FriendFeed and download pr0n. OS X FTW.
- Cyndy
Yea well I was born in 1899 and wrote my first program on a slide rule, then, I invented the Internet and downloaded everything ever.
- Will Higgins™
@Cyndy, then why is it I am running Vista connected via Wifi and Shared WEP to a router running Tomato. Not Netgear or Linksys OS, I'm using Tomato. It connected with no issues. my wifi adapter found the router, I told it I wanted to connect. It asked for my key, I plugged it in, I was done. That simple.
- Jason Shultz
Airport is the router, right? did you use any kind of encryption? It's funny, if I google OS X to non airport routers how many hits I get from people having issues trying to connect.
- Jason Shultz
In this day and age, if it takes an hour to learn an OS? That piece of software should die a trillion deaths. That's why Vista is being repackaged as Windows 7. Besides, since when does mastering Windows earn you geek cred? (rhetorical = no need for an answer). That said, since there are many raves about Vista, I am looking forward to a more intuitive UX with Windows 7 (ctp HELL TO THE NAY on beta).
- Mona Nomura
Cyndy - I think it's the tree koala bears hang out on. You know, the one outside your window blocking the intertubes?
- Mona Nomura
I live in Western NY. The tubes, they are clogged with snow.
- Cyndy
Ok Cyndy, I give. I'm not going to change your opinion (or Mona's either for that matter) and my opinion is I like both so I don't know what I was supposed to do. I can make money on either one. But, if i don't get to bed then I'll be too tired to. I enjoyed our little debate, too bad it wasn't on IRC or Usenet, then we could be rocking it old school. Maybe next time?
- Jason Shultz
Jason - Good night - either which way, an OS shouldn't take an hour to figure out. Damnit, I had to get the last word in!
- Mona Nomura
from IM
@Mona, yes, you did. It's all good. I was going to say something else, but I'm going to let you have the last word. I'm just cool like that. :)
- Jason Shultz
from twhirl